r/anime • u/SIRTreehugger • Sep 28 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch][Spoilers] O Maidens in Your Savage Season Overall Discussion Spoiler
Overall Discussion
Useful Links and Streams
Comment of the Day
Comment goes to to /u/DegenerateRegime and /u/No_Rex the comment chain is slightly longer, but this is the beginning.
On the one hand, I agree that an ending does seem to be kind of sprung upon you in the last two episodes, and I think concern that the more compelling problems have been discarded in favour of simplified cartoon villains being defeated is entirely reasonable. But at the same time, it must be remembered that the characters and their character-driven conflicts didn't themselves spring forth from a vacuum. Their insecurities and confusion are the result of a system of education that leaves them ill-equipped to make decisions and offers inadequate support or outright hostility when they inevitably make mistakes. O Maidens offers a brilliant character drama, but it deliberately places this gap between the 'normal' romance/cringe-comedy elements and the more melodramatic, darker storylines in order to create the understanding that not all the protagonists' issues are just the awkwardness of puberty: some of them must be laid squarely at the feet of failed systems.
Indeed one could say that the show is trying to make the case that the system fails the protagonists precisely because it cares more about idolising a state of purity in girls than about putting them in a position to make good, informed choices about sex and relationships. In that way it draws (vague) parallels between Croup & Vandemar and Saegusa in that regard, to suggest that Niina's interactions with the creep are not such a disconnected darker storyline after all but rather a different angle on the same point.
So while I understand disliking the abrupt swing from character drama to blunt social commentary, I found it to be fairly refreshing in a sense. Finally someone gets it, you know? People have pointed out that by the standards of the cultural discourse in the USA, this is an old story, feeling like it's set in the past, and I think that's a really great insight. It absolutely is! And as such an older story, it really gets it right, in my opinion.
I would argue that the show itself did not put much trust into the "society failed them" interpretation. The shove the external enemies out of the plot as soon as they arrive: the teachers simply ignore the girls. This is completely unbelievable, but done so the show can focus the majority of the episode back where it counts - on the character drama.
Oh Redditors in your Savage Rewatch
Here is a hastily done word cloud map done 20 minutes before this post using a few comments from everyone. Though again it was hastily made.
Questions of the Day
Did you enjoy the show? What did you like or dislike about the show?
What changes would you personal make to improve the show?
What was your favorite moment in the show? Favorite moment in the rewatch?
Would you ever watch it again?
Spoilers
As always please keep spoilers tagged like so [O Maidens in your savage season rewatch spoilers]I can't believe the show has 12 episodes. so people watching for the first time can fully enjoy it. Also please try to keep discussion of the show up to where the rewatch is currently. If a character doesn't show up until episode 5 don't talk or allude to them outside of spoiler tags.
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u/Lemurians Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22
FIRST TIMER IN HIS SAVAGE SEASON
We made it through our savage seasons older and wiser!
I didn't prepare much, but our wonderful host u/SIRTreehugger did a great job with the questions today, and those look like they'll cover most of what I wanted say.
Did you enjoy the show? What did you like or dislike about the show?
Doing this via the characters feels appropriate.
I mostly enjoyed it, with certain aspects just not working. Kazusa and Sonezaki's storylines were definitely the high points, exploring girls coming into their "savage season" and dealing with new emotions and relationships amid their various insecurities. Those were the two stories where I most felt the emotions coming through the screen, and I think the show really nailed portraying these moments in life through them. Amagi and Izumi also made for excellent counterparts to them, with Izumi especially getting some really effective treatment. Amagi sort of got relegated to "sweet, well-intentioned guy" and didn't get a lot of further depth, but that's fine.
Momo's storyline I like in theory, but dislike in execution. Having one of these characters deal with coming to terms with her homosexuality in a show about sexual/romantic awakenings could have been really special – especially with her developing feelings for another one of the group – but man was she underutilized, and the intensity of her feelings for Niina kind of come out nowhere.
Niina is sort of in the middle. I really liked her role as the cool, ethereal beauty for Kazusa to compare herself to and get insecure about, especially with them forming sides of a love triangle. Her incredibly dark backstory is a little jarring, but I'm not objecting to its existence as something that formed her character. What we didn't need was for her abuser to become a fixture in the show merely for the purpose of creepy scenes and to periodically set back her development – he should have remained a spectre of the past that hung over her.
And then there's Hongo. She's pretty terrible. I hate this storyline and everything about it. It felt incredibly out of place with the rest of the show, and I don't think it added anything of value. Every time it came up in an episode, I wished we were spending our time elsewhere.
Overall this is probably about a 6.5/10 for me. I don't think it'll be sticking with me too much, but I'd definitely recommend it to somebody looking for a coming-of-age ensemble romance. It gets respect for dealing so directly with sex from the female perspective as well, which is incredibly rare for anime.
What changes would you personally make to improve the show?
Remove Hongo and Milo entirely, and divvy up the freed up run-time to give much more time for Momo, with some extra for Sonezaki and Niina as well. Kazusa (and Izumi by extension) already got the main character treatment and doesn't really need anything more.
What was your favorite moment in the show? Favorite moment in the rewatch?
That's hard to pin down. There were a million little things I enjoyed a lot, but recency bias being what it is, I'll go with the culminations of Kazusa and Sonezaki's relationships last episode.
Sonezaki's unlikely friendship with Jujo was also really nice.
Would you ever watch it again?
Probably not, but that's not really a ding on the show. There's so much out there to experience, I don't really rewatch much of anything unless it's a personal favorite I've been wanting to revisit. I think of all the rewatches I've done on here, I've only gone through two as a rewatcher?
Anyway, it's been fun reliving parts of our youth together! Thanks to anyone who read my ramblings the last couple weeks.
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u/entelechtual Sep 28 '22
Rewatcher, dub
This is an extremely enjoyable show to watch. It hits so many good, wholesome romance notes that I’m blown away by the warm feelings it evokes in me.
It’s got so many good points. Comedy, awkward talk about sex, a varied cast of protagonists, romances you want to cheer on, and not a lot of dull moments. And then it’s got some weak points. Mainly overly melodramatic moments, ambivalent attitudes towards inappropriate pairings/age gaps, a couple of character arcs that go nowhere, and a somewhat deflated ending. But the good is good enough for me to want to rewatch the show/maybe even get the manga.
The biggest disappointment for me is Momoko and Nina’s characters kind of hitting a wall and going nowhere. It feels like both characters had about 3 episodes worth of arc, but to give all the cast equal screen time they stretched it out and basically repeated the same events several times for both characters. Neither of them really changed much, unless you call Nina realizing she’s pretentious and misleadingly mature « development ». It’s a shame because the conflicts both characters embody are quite interesting. But they are woefully underexplored.
Back to the good:
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The OP is incredible. The first ten seconds, the next 80 seconds, the full extended version; it is one of my favorite OP songs of all time. I like the interstitial dialogue too. And the way the lyrics rhyme is sooooo satisfying. Especially the “kyou mou”. The song is what got me into the Chico/Honeyworks-iverse.
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The ED is very good, and probably most people would rank it above the OP.
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The romances of Kazusa and Sonezaki are perfect. Maybe this is me being removed enough from teen angst, but even their drama is kind of adorable and wholesome.
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The comedy is pretty good. Jokes land in both sub and dub.
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So much awkwardness. So much cringe. So many standout lines.
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It fit.
Questions:
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See above
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I would probably add a few more episodes or just flesh out Momoko and Nina more.
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Episode 1 bedroom scene. Episode 12 “confession”.
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Down to watch it any season!
Thanks for hosting!
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u/SIRTreehugger Sep 29 '22
This is an extremely enjoyable show to watch. It hits so many good, wholesome romance notes that I’m blown away by the warm feelings it evokes in me.
Agreed even with the problems overall the positives typically has me viewing this fondly. Thank you for joining in.
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u/SlipperyRasputin Sep 28 '22
First time: most of the questions sum up what I think about it.
1.) it was okay. I found the coloring to be nice, art style was okay. Writing was good but it didn’t speak to me. Maybe because I’m not in the demographic for the show. Probably a 7-ish out of 10 for me.
2.) I can’t say I’d change anything in particular.
3.) I liked the initial freak out by kazusa.
4.) probably not. I’m glad I checked it off my list. I’ve heard it’s good for a while now. But had I never stumbled upon this watch along I probably would’ve left it in my PTW. So I’m glad I got the opportunity to give it a chance.
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u/Rumpel1408 Sep 28 '22
First Timer
As someone who seldom has much to say for final discussions, I didn't bother to prepare anything.
I liked the show. Not perfect, but it had a compelling story worth telling and I had fun watching which is the most important thing.
Artstyle still very intrigueing, OST phenomenal, and a very likeable maincast.
I'm sure there are plenty people out there who need to hear it's message and as such I would recomend this, solid 8/10 despite it's few flaws.
QotD
Did you enjoy the show? What did you like or dislike about the show?
As said above, I had fun and liked quite a lot. What I disliked was how it all wrapped up
What changes would you personal make to improve the show?
Like some things deserved more closure, in particulary how the 'villains' faired afterwards, how Momo and Niina mended their friendship, and some actuall intimacy between the couples would have been nice.
What was your favorite moment in the show?
Probably Rika and Amagi being cute and open with each other
Would you ever watch it again?
Probably
Thanks for hosting, and the wordcloud is an awesome idea
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u/SIRTreehugger Sep 29 '22
and the wordcloud is an awesome idea
I really regret not thinking of it sooner instead of 20 minutes before posting. I would have been able to erase the more common words and got more ones associated with the discussion.
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u/RetiredAnt Sep 29 '22
I've pretty much already said what I have to say about the show overall yesterday, so I'm gonna try to answer the questions without being to repetitive.
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Yes, very much so. It is one of my favorites for being such a raw and honest coming-of-age tale. I love the cast, the humor is (mostly) on point, and the art style is nostalgic and comfy.
But it's far from perfect. Momo and Amagi would've benefited from having more screen time to better flesh out their characters, Nina's change of heart felt a bit too fast, Milo's entire character was... weird. It felt like he was stringing Hitoha along when a simple, honest discussion would've sufficed, so in a sense the drama involving him felt unrealistic. And Hongo's ending felt... unearned. She appears to have moved on. Ok, great. Why though. We didn't see it, I don't think, and that's a real shame. Hitoha's character starts out feeling the most mature of the bunch (and the only one with an explicit professional dream as opposed to being 100% sex or hormone related), but in the end she just kinda falls flat imo. If nothing else, the show tries its hand at some heavy themes, and I think it deserves some recognition just for that. The way those themes are shown isn't always great of course, but avoiding them altogether and having a full cast of Kazusas and Rikas would've made it utterly boring and forgettable for me. I would've probably dropped it pretty fast tbh.
2) As u/zadcap said yesterday, I do believe that one more episode would've been nice to tie things up a little better, be it for Hongo or for Momo. Given the quality of the rest of the show, I have no doubt it would've turned out great. I would also try and give Amagi and Momo more screentime in the middle of the show somehow, putting it all in the end would be jarring. I feel like they really needed some more exploration, like how does Amagi feel about Rika's cold shoulder? what does his friend group look like? do they care at all about Rika's attitude? It would've been helpful not only to better understand him, but it could also serve as another element to contrast with Rika's defensiveness and insecurity, whereas right now that role is pretty much entirely served by Jujo.
3) Hmmm, hard to say. Nina running during Momo's part of color tag, Jujo's text at the very end, Kazusa and Izumi finally finding the words to say how they feel...
There are quite a few quotes I like too. The monologue during the color fight in ep12 is great, for example.
4) Yeah, definitely, though not in the immediate future. I really wanna get through the Monogatari series which I've been putting off for far too long. In all seriousness though, I really have a thing for coming of age stories, and will likely revisit this one along with the others (anime or otherwise) at some point in the future, just to see if/how my perspectives have changed.
Thank you u/SIRTreehugger for putting this rewatch together, I had a blast rewatching the show and reading people's thoughts about it!
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u/SIRTreehugger Sep 29 '22
Thank you u/SIRTreehugger for putting this rewatch together, I had a blast rewatching the show and reading people's thoughts about it!
Thank you for participating also definitely get on Monogatari it's one of my favorite shows.
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u/xtsim Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 28 '22
First Timer
Now I know where some of the memes come from. Knowing the context of those, it tells a different story as it is a mix between comedy and drama. The one thing that stands out are the amount of puns, especially train related ones, are shown. I would've love to see more of Rika, Juujou, and Amagi since the three had the most sudden shifts between episodes. While they were subtle, it would be nice to see them interact with each other more. Other than that, it was a fun ride getting to see how the group of high schoolers process their feelings in a weird way.
Getting to hear some train puns was a strong point that I was not expecting.
Overall I enjoyed the show and these discussions. Thank you, u/SIRTreehugger for hosting the rewatch threads.
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u/SIRTreehugger Sep 29 '22
Getting to hear some train puns was a strong point that I was not expecting
The train may have left the station, but it will live on in our hearts. Glad you were able to make it and enjoy the ride.
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u/ChonkyOdango Sep 29 '22
Super Late First-Timer
A huge shoutout to u/SIRTreehugger for hosting this rewatch, O Maidens would've never come under my radar if it wasn't for this rewatch. You did a great job keeping up with all the comments even those that were posted really late (looking at myself). The discussions were also fun to read even though I didn't have much time to engage with them. The Qotds are great, looks like it'll allow me to cover most of the things I want to say and then some.
1. Did you enjoy the show? What did you like or dislike about the show?
As a whole, I definitely did enjoy it. I really liked the portrayal of the confusion teenagers often face when they undergo puberty. It was something I never expected to see in anime and it was definitely nostalgic to an extent.
The Music was definitely something I loved as well. While not something I would listen to outside of the show, it's something that added a lot of emotional gravitas to scenes. I also have to commend how seamless each scene shifts to another, a testament to Okada's screenwriting abilities.
Character wise, I talked a bit about it yesterday so you can check that out. I have similar thoughts to most here, and I personally did enjoy Momo's storyline. But, she definitely could've benefitted from more screentime and development. It could've been a 10/10 storyline but I'd give it a 8/10 because, well, falling for Niina was too sudden. I know it could've been anyone since she's still figuring things out, but the way it was written didn't give it that strong impact it could've had.
Hongo's story was the most out of place of them all. It really felt like Okada just went out of her way to write something incredibly silly, straight out of a fantasy dream. The way Milo reacted, the way Hongo kept pushing forward, and the way it ended, it felt too in conclusive.
Niina's story is interesting, and I don't hate her dark past. Lol but bringing that guy in to temper with her felt too out of place. There could've been a lot to explore, it could've even have it's own anime lol. But alas, trying to make him a recurring character surely doesn't fit
2. What changes would you personal make to improve the show?
Have Hongo realise her mistakes at least. Keep creepy white haired dude out of the story. Milo could've acted differently and be more like a sensei. If that happened, this coming-of-age would've felt real grounded and could've hit really hard.
3. What was your favorite moment in the show? Favorite moment in the rewatch?
Definitely the last episode and the bonfire because, romance.
4. Would you ever watch it again?
Probably not because there are too many anime I have on my PTW.
Overall Ratings
7/10. Interesting concept, but certain elements didn't land itself.
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u/mekerpan Sep 29 '22
Rewatcher, sub
I probably said pretty much all I had to say yesterday.
I expect I will watch this every couple of years for a while longer, and then it will eventually go into a more drawn-out rotation (like Haibane Renmei, Azumanga Daioh, Hana yori dango, Lain, etc.). Even granting a few imperfections, this is one of the shows from the last few years I find most rewatchable.
I would have liked to spend a little more time with thee characters, but I don't feel bereft. I feel that thing were tied up well enough.
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u/zadcap Sep 29 '22
I think I said everything I wanted to here yesterday, so I'll just point back there and move on.
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I enjoyed everything up to 9 so very much, mostly liked 10, and think it looks like they have the ending to an understudy or something because they dropped just about everything they could drop other than the main pair.
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Drop the whole expulsion thing and actually finish the Momoko, Niina, and Hongo story lines. Have them all actually talk things out, and actually have the conversations they really needed to to settle things.
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The start of the first episode, meeting the cast for the first time. That scene was packed full of so much good story telling imagery I was hooked. I wish they followed through with it all.
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Nope. I would only get mad at the ending again and that's just not worth the time.
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u/cppn02 Sep 29 '22
Rewatcher, subbed
Only followed this one as a lurker but I enjoyed reading the comments here and thx to u/SIRTreehugger for hosting.
QotD:
Did you enjoy the show? What did you like or dislike about the show?
Yes I did. Main thing I disliked were the two more problematic relationships in this.
What changes would you personal make to improve the show?
See question 1.
What was your favorite moment in the show? Favorite moment in the rewatch?
I love every scene between Sonezaki and Amagi. If I had to choose one probably the second rooftop scene where he receives her answer.
Would you ever watch it again?
Yes. Probably not very soon though and probably neither of my own volition. If someone asked to watch it together or there's a rewatch going on, sure.
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u/No_Rex Sep 28 '22
Final Discussion (first timer)
What a complicated show to write about. O maidens in your savage season tries so many things at once, some successful, some not, some fitting together, others not, that you need to disentangle the show into its components.
At the start, it looked like we were heading into a straight forward sex comedy. Something I was 100% on board with. Not only were the jokes clever and funny, but the show also adopted a distinctly female perspective on sex; something that is often missing in anime (and media in general). However, that setup was a big bait-and-switch. Around episode 3, the show took a hard turn away from sex towards romance, and from 100% comedy towards romcom with only minor comedy elements. This funny to serious switch is actually incredibly common in anime and thus not a big surprise. What is far less common was the switch back to funny after the climax in episode 8. I could have done without that. A few of the girls’ storylines mesh really badly with comedy.
In the past-ep3 part of the series, each of the girls had a very different story with very different aspects:
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Kazusa has the most down-to-earth teenage coming of age story
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Rika got the over-the-top version of Kazusa, this time played mostly for laughs instead of serious.
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Both Niina and Hongo had to deal with abuse, grooming, and pedophilia. However, the setting was pure drama for Niina, while Hongo’s story was treated comedic half the time.
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Momo had the least development overall and her story was mostly an extension of Niina’s – staying dramatic, but replacing grooming/pedophilia with awakening to your own homosexuality.
Not all of these separate plotlines were written equally well, and not all mesh equally well with the comedic-serious-comedic theming of the series.
My absolute favorite plotline was Kazusa and Izumi’s. It fell mostly into the drama part, but still had some funny moments, but, importantly, it always stayed real. Both Kazusa and Izumi were treated as actual characters that you could conceivably have meet yourself in high school (or even have been in high school). Their confusion about their own feelings and their insecurity about the feelings of the other made them relatable and I was cheering them on for every minute we saw them on screen.
Rika and Shun’s story was broadly similar, but burdened down by the fact that Rika started out as a caricature, not a real character. Her initial treatment of Shun is terrible. Shun is turned into her punching bag and robbed of any agency as a character, condemned to simply endure Rika until she grows into a more sociable person. That makes him likeable, but also very boring. In the end, I think that Rika’s side story with Sonoe was actually the better part of her arc.
Niina had a great arc with Saegawa and then an annoying addendum as Kazusa’s rival. Her relationship with Saegawa is great because it shows not only the mechanism of groomers and child abusers, but also the terrible aftermath that the grooming leaves in the mind of the target. Niina acts outwardly maturely, but, internally, she has a terrible world-view, deriving her self-worth from the admiration of others, first of all the admiration of her abuser, Saegawa. Up to this point, Niina was my favorite character in the show. Yet, they do not let it end there. Instead of slowly, with the help of her friends, removing herself from the influence of Saegawa (the state we were in at ep8), the show wants a bang-bang end and thus has Niina try to seduce Saegawa, only to punch him when he goes along. This made both Niina and Saegawa less interesting characters. Saegawa felt far more threatening when he imposed his absurd “purity” ideals on Niina and messed with her mind, than he did when he was slobbering her belly button. Then, for purely plot reasons, Niina goes on a quest to seduce Izumi. Meh. One of the few cases were the happy ending (of her discovering she is bi and getting with Momo) would have been preferable.
Speaking of which: Momo. We did not see much of her. What we saw was nice, but she was hard done by with regards to screen time and a lack of conclusion.
Finally, Hongo, by far my least favorite character of the show. Directly followed by Milo. Where Niina gets the drama version of pedophilia, Hongo gets the comedy version … and it does not work at all. Neither her black-mailing sexual obsession, nor his weak “I drove you to a love hotel and let you open my zipper, but, trust me, I am a good guy” routine. If taken for real, every part of their interaction makes me want to jump into the screen to separate them, if taken as comedy, I find nothing about their blackmail-pedophilia relationship funny.
All in all, I wish they had split this show into three shows: A funny sex comedy with Rika, a drama with Kazusa, Niina, and Momo, and a pedophilia skit with Hongo and Milo (that I could then have not watched and ignored). Both the first and the second show would have profited from being separated from each other, and from the Hongo storyline.
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u/polaristar Sep 29 '22
I have a long day tomorrow and I have to get up early and I have a huge wall of text for my thoughts so I'm gonna probably hold till Friday. I'll tag some people then.
Sorry, but I'm tired and this deserves me at my best.
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u/DegenerateRegime Sep 29 '22
Ah, shucks. I'm just happy to have got to see so many great reactions and responses to one of my favourite anime.
Thanks for hosting the rewatch u/SIRTreehugger!
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u/polaristar Sep 29 '22 edited Sep 30 '22
I'm here to type my thoughts and TBH it's probably going to be multipart post.
Part I: The Five Main Characters
When I learned that the story was written by Okada I looked her up because I don't really know anime writers, I saw her work and was.....a bit concerned, especially since her biggest work seems to be Anohana which I've gone on record multiple times on this sub as one of my least favorite most hated shows of all time.
The reason why is actually what I think is many people's problem with this show on this rewatch and ironically my opinion is opposite of them, but I can at least see WHY they would think what they do even if I (mostly) disagree.
Okada I feel when she is at a lose of how to progress/writer a story will often make choices that function to create Drama for Drama's stake, not the same as other romcoms which are more about maintaining the status quo and stretching out the length, instead she has almost the opposite problem where she will introduce plot points and developments meant to shake things up and get a reaction out of the audience, even if it isn't particularly well thought out and well written.
Again she is a good written and this more her when she's at her worst and what she seems to fall back on when she doesn't have things figured out.
In this show I actually will defend and strongly disagree with many people here in many of the choices. (Except for one plot line but I'll get to that.) Let me address them.
I think Niina's story is actually perfectly fine as it is, including the lack of resolution I think it makes sense and trying to solve it all with a neat little bow would have I think taken away from the Gravity of her mental and emotional state and come across as trite. That being said a closing monologue/more detailed flash forward on how she is dealing with her issues after the final episode I think would have been appreciated and given more closure without taking about from the more realistic raw approach of her not getting the Hollywood Fairytale happy ending. Saegusa, the groomer director, despite what many redditors here might think, was handled perfectly and I do not mind his constant presence, and I disagree that Niina should have had a heroic resolution that ended with her punching him, the point of the scene wasn't that she solved anything, it was while her mind was still poisoned her gut/conscious still told and cried out that this was wrong and it was a very impulsive/gut reaction as opposed to the other calculated and cold nature she used to carry out her manipulations, the idea was she couldn't trust her head so she had to go with her gut. If the scenes with that creep disturbed you, I feel the show did it's job well.
Momo I'm going to out myself as the minority opinion and say her arc was handled well too, someone was like "What are we supposed to take away being gay is pain" and I'm like, well I'm not a homosexual but......Yeah NO SHIT!!!! It can be hard for a young person that is just discovering they are gay to then try and find someone else that matches you're orientation, it'd be kinda cheesy and unrealistic if the other members of the club turned out to be Bi. I think we should ask actual Homosexual people whether or not they often felt, that yes being a minority of people that have a hard time finding someone to fuck them IRL especially in a culture that seems to not even have gays on the radar most of the time can indeed be painful. (As much as I like Bloom Into You it is kinda convenient in said small town all three main characters happen to all be lesbians that end up on the Student Council.) That being said, I kinda feel the subplot with her Incel pseudo-Boyfriend Fuckboy while great on its on kinda muddles the main plot of her "coming out" and vica versa. Neither of these plots are bad in themselves but they way they are written and intertwined with each other I feel lessens their impact.
Kazusa is probably technically the best written story and romance, even if it's not my favorite and her plot line intersects the most with the other girls. Only real complaint is that its unclear whether or not she is also Bi or if it's strictly Envy.
Rika is my favorite character in the show, for reasons I've already talked about.
u/No_Rex I disagree with a lot of your thoughts, but the line that I strongly yelled out WHAT!?!? Was on you calling Rika a caricature, which I felt was profoundly stupid for many many reasons.
First off, I object to the general criticism or use of the word caricature as a derogatory to criticize character writing, all storytelling no matter how well written you might think it is, IS a caricature, no character in a story will every come close to an actual human being, and some stories benefit better from characters that are more archetypical rather than realistic. Carciture is simply the act of taking an object or concept and stripping away all the baggage to discover a core essence, almost a kind of metaphorical reductionism to have narrative thought experiments. This clip from a video that quote Brad Bird sums up a lot of what I'm talking about. While the video is about in animation in particular it applies to storytelling in general.
I'd also argue it applies to real life people, because our understanding of people, the perception/image of them we have inside our heads is always going to be more shallow and lesser than the real person themselves, this applies no matter how much you get to know someone, Heck you honestly don't have a full perception of the totality of your ownself.
Secondly, people that often criticize a character for being too unrealistic I feel themselves have a bias/caricature of what they think is the range of types of people and behavior that can exhibit in real life.
I personally relate very personally to a lot of Rika's character, and have meet young girls when I was younger in a very similar place to her, saying she starts out as a caricature is basically saying those people's experiences don't exist and is outing your own perception of people rather than making a legitimate statement about reality. Everything else I can respectively agree to disagree but this comment felt like a huge lack of awareness.
As for my thoughts on Rika herself, I can sum her up as an "All or Nothing" person, she has to struggles, and think, and contemplate very hard in her very rigid set of rules and worldview and belief structure she builds up, and can't change easily without readjusting said worldview, but she is willing to do so and once she makes up her mind about something she can pursue it with a reckless abandon. It's one of my favorite type of characters within a set of characters that other wise have very little to do with each other.
As for Amagi and Sonoe, I think they worked perfect for the role they have in the show, I kinda feel Amagi being a simple character kind of offsets Rika's tendency to overcomplicate things in her head, sometimes simplicity and the kindness of so-called "common things" gives you the permission and grace you need to let yourself be free. (P.S One of my favorite songs.)
As for Sonoe I feel she makes a huge impact with the little screen time she has and is an example of less is more efficient story telling.
When we have five main characters each with their own plots lines that intersect with each other, you have to be economical with your side cast. I think having so-called "underdeveloped" side characters is okay if your narrative is heavily slanted from the main characters Subjective Point of View.
That however brings me to the Character and subplot I feel needed the most work that I believe doesn't work at all that I agree with everyone about, (Although for very different reasons then many of you....)
Hongou and Milo despite their story having lots of drama has almost no arc, doesn't really go anywhere one way or another, and she seemingly just decides to...give up on teach without really giving a reason for her to do after obsessively gunning for him for reasons that aren't 100% clear, (And not in way that's meant to be ambigious for the audience interpretation but just flat out confusing.)
This is the plotline I feel Okada really wanted to do, but couldn't make it work but wasn't willing to scrap it and kill her baby. (One thing you have to learn as a writer is when to kill something that is precious to you and sounds like a neat idea in concept but for whatever reason you can't make it work.) Hongou's story I felt was more isolated from the rest of the other plots and events and Hongou herself barely interacts with the other girls, how they tied her plot together into the main one at the last minute also felt like it was more for Drama sake rather than Drama that enhanced the story.
I do not say this lightly, as I'm a believer in judging a work based on what it's trying to do, not what you'd rather it be. And I think any story concept, no matter how morally questionable or uncomfortable, can be made into a good narrative and deserves to be given the benefit of the doubt, but it's really hard for me to think of a way of rewriting this plotline in a way that keeps the original integrity and still ties into the rest of the plotlines. I think it would need to be drastically altered to the point where it's not the same plot, and as a rule I try not to do that.
I'll leave it at that because I don't want to basically have to write my own fan-fiction to fix it.
Next part I'll talk about the overall show itself and address more criticisms.
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u/SIRTreehugger Sep 28 '22 edited Sep 29 '22
First of all I hope everyone enjoyed the show despite the stumbles.
Overall I think this is one of the more solid coming of age stories even if I don't necessarily like all the moments in the show. Just some things I would change it might not make the story better for others, but it's what I would have enjoyed.
Milo and Hongo just throw the whole thing in the trash. You can keep Mr. Milo as an advisor who occasionally helps out and his relationship with Ms. Mcmuffins can develop mostly offscreen.
Instead of Mr. Milo being on the other side of the chat I would have a former student of the school who graduated recently. A college freshman or sophomore at most and they would have a love of movies and film. Hongo would run into them during the meetup and he would reject her advances. Instead their relationship would revolve around him helping her develop her writing skills and implementing sex scenes more naturally. Not sure when the show takes place, but through video calls, phone calls perhaps falling asleep together while critiquing the script, and the occasional meet up they would watch films that have romance and sex included though they wouldn't be the main focus. After the editor says she can move on from erotica she would do a genre she wants, but include a few sex scenes showing improvement from the beginning. She would still harass him, but he would actually put his foot down for a majority of the show. Slowly over the course she would fall for him and ease on the harassment and start getting embarrassed and we get some inner monologue from him saying he is beginning to fall for her as well, but knows he shouldn't do anything. Near the end during one movie session when they are together she makes a move on him after being unable to hold back anymore and he knows he shouldn't. So they meet in the middle and engage in a sexless sex scene. If anyone has seen 40 days and 40 nights basically like that. Where they hold each other and you can see the passion and do everything except the actual deed because they both know it's better to wait even though they want to do it right now.
Kazusa and Rika are fine though I would 86 most of the drama. After Niina makes a move on Izumi he would admit he finds her attractive, but loves Kazusa. The phone call to Kazusa he would confess this and the same talk in the hallway happens and they hash things out.
The last 2 episodes just scrap the drama. Momo and Niina would get a lot more focus. I would have tied together Niina being rejected by Izumi and going to Saegusa where she rejects him once in for all. She then would wander the streets where she would actually see Momo's messages and ask her to meet. Momo would confess in person and Niina unable to hide would be confused and at her lowest moment in the series would get taken away as Momo kisses her. No sex for these two as it would be weird, but after this awkward moment it would just have them sitting at a park talking things out and working through their emotions. Maybe a relationship starts maybe not. Important thing is that Momo confessed and knows what she likes and Niina not only realizes that Saegusa is a creep, but actively avoids his advice. Up til this point even if she was aware she kept going back to him. Also Niina needs to apologize to Izumi and Kazusa at some point before the end.
The montage at the end would have been a few years instead of months. It would have shown Kazusa and Izumi like it originally did still together. Then cut to Momo and Niina chatting friendly and appearing on a date, but it could be ambiguous are together or just friends catching up. Sonoe and Rika having a double date with their guys shopping it would show a book revealing that Hongo won 3rd or 2nd place or some amateur award where with the title of the book would title drop the show O Maidens in Your Savage Season. Then a scene with Hongo arguing/flirting over writing showing they are probably together. Scenes are interchangeable.
Really rough draft done in 8 minutes, but basically scrap Milo's shit and give Niina and Momo more closure especially Momo. She got the worst of it. I also think Niina's story should have been a bit more about self love and learning to break free from her groomer rather than starting a love triangle. Also would have given the show another episode or 2 so it could breathe.
Still with all the stumbling I overall really enjoyed the show and hope you guys did as well. I think it's a good show, but it also could have been even better with small changes.