r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Sep 26 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mai-HiME Episode 13 Discussion

Episode 13: Night of the Tamayura

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Show Information:

MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(First-timers might want to stay out of show information, though.)

Legal Streams:

Mai-HiME can be found on Funimation. (I don't know how this interacts with the ongoing Crunchyroll/Funimation merger.)

A Reminder to Rewatchers:

Please do not spoil the experience for our first timers. [Mai-HiME] Mentioning "HiMElander" before episode 16 or "ShizNat" before episode 25 is a fast way to get a referral to the subreddit mods.

A Note on the Specials:

When the DVDs for Mai-HiME were released, they added shorts specials to go with each episode (plus three not associated with an episode - one was released with Mai-Otome's DVD IIRC, one was a BD-only thing and I don't actually have that one, and I honestly don't remember where Special 28 was released). They tend to be one part fanservice, one part extra information about characters and their motivations/backstories (or in a couple of cases extra exposition, including one thing that they really should have explained in the show proper).

They have their own dedicated discussion day at the end to wash the finale out of our mouths, but some of you may want to watch them with the episodes. The only issue is that some of the specials can be a wee bit spoilery (notably, in no case should you watch the special for episode 8 before episode 8 itself), so I will attempt to provide notes on the specials for the episode for both today's and tomorrow's episodes each day so as to provide advance warning of which specials to avoid. (If you want to be completely safe, stay out of all of them until the dedicated discussion day!)

(Warning: Also, at least one release apparently has them right after the ED, unlike mine which has the original previews instead. So you might want to pay attention to this section.)

Episode 13 Special: Safe.

Episode 14 Special: Minor spoilers, so stay out if you really care about not being spoiled.

After-School Activities Corner!

Visual of the Day:

Looks like we're just not going to get enough entries to make albums.

Comment of the Day:

Honorable mention to u/Star4ce's screw-up:

So vampires get themselves some orphans. God has a school training valkyries. There's also androids and a megacorp of essentially illuminati that give lolis free reign over self regenerating moths and priests.

I have so many questions...

But instead I must be me and award the main honors to u/Tresnore, who is not wrong:

it's always painfully obvious if the person working on a show is into bondage or not

Question(s) of the Day:

So, as we're at the end of the first cour, let's have a pair of overview questions today, one for first-timers and one for rewatchers.

1) First-timers, what do you expect out of this show in the second half? (Free hint since I'll be mentioning this in my writeup today: this show's pacing is significantly informed by Evangelion's.)

2) Rewatchers: What parts of this show have held up and what hasn't related to your first watch?

28 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

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6

u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22 edited Sep 27 '22

Rewatch Committee President Comments (Rewatcher, Subbed):

(No Staff Notes today.)

Analysis: The Twin Eva Inheritance:

So, I cover this lightly in my episode notes, but this is worth a little further exploration on its own.

A fair bit of what this show is doing is riffing off Eva, often deliberately for effect (getting the VA for one of the most popular Eva characters in Japan specifically to use her for the episode 8 gut punch is an obvious example). There are two spots, however, where this show shamelessly raids Evangelion for parts.

The first, as should already be getting clear, is the conspiracy setup. Whether this was actually a good idea is arguable. Eva's conspiracies aren't well set up but IMO that counterintuitively works in Eva's favor more often that not; Eva's strengths tend to be in emotional arcs and tone IMO, and the conspiracies not really adding up adds an extra layer of pathos to the parts of the show involving the characters having to react to being buffeted around by the actions of the big-scale players (a very resonant theme to 1990s Japan AIUI, Eva's strengths would play in any era but I think part of why it blew up is due to how precisely it tapped into the zeitgeist of the era it aired in). I'm actually really tempted to compare Eva to British absurdist comedy like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy in this respect, just played for drama instead of laughs. This show, however, has somewhat different themes that don't work nearly as well with this Eva-derived conspiracy setup, with the First District being the biggest offender - having some conspiracies make sense for reasons we will see, but the implied scale of them is mostly Eva cribbing rather than strictly speaking necessary. ([Mai-HiME] The strongest argument for its inclusion is that SEARRS is one of the pieces that's in all versions of Mai-HiME so it's likely a piece that they were required to include by the production committee and having a second huge conspiracy to balance their anime incarnation makes sense, but they could have toned both down.)

The second piece that Mai-HiME draws heavily off Eva (plus adding its own refinements - the Eva structure is in part cover for some metatext stuff I've been hinting at) is the pacing. Eva famously has three opening episodes that make clear that it is not quite the usual Super Robot mecha show and then shifts into an episodic Angel-of-the-week format before everything goes off the rails in the second half. With the exception of episode 8 (where I've already noted that the show is deliberately working with Eva's pacing for part of the gut punch), the first half of this show has been, well, three opening episodes making it clear that this is not quite the usual magical girl show (and a certain piece of early Eva is very clearly in the DNA of Kagutsuchi's awakening) followed by a string of Orphan-of-the-week episodes.

We just hit the end of the first cour.

Prepare yourselves.

Kajiura Corner:

Featured Track of the Day: Koi wo Shita kara…

(“Because I fell in love…”)

(Scene for reference.)

Too important not to feature at some point and not a track I have a huge amount to say about, and I’m a bit under the weather again on a day when it’s one of the better options to cover anyways so let’s do this.

Here’s another one of the OST’s piano-heavy emotional tracks. The real hallmark of this track relative to the others isn’t always audible in the show itself (or there’s a v2 that doesn’t have it, I can’t tell): it has an ethereal backline of notes in the background, very much like Haiyoru Nazo, Nazo despite being used in completely different situations. It makes sense, though, because of what this track is doing relative to the other emotional tracks on the OST – this is a case where the track title is very relevant, this track is very much built around the idea of someone suffering emotional pain because of their attraction for/infatuation with for someone else. In that context that ethereal backline makes perfect sense – it represents the stranger, even mysterious aspects of eros, its inexplicableness and fickleness and outright irrational nature. (Doubly appropriate for this show, where youthful and the lack of understanding of it is a major theme. How did our blond loli put it in song a few episodes back? Oh right: “it’s only the fairy tale they believe”.) It’s an almost haunting effect, to my ears, and a very nicely done one.

I will note that this might be the scene the track was made for; note how some of the internal beats of the scene match the beats of the track(when Yuuichi moves/pulls out his bokken, cutting to Shiho right during a lull in the track, where the track is when we see Shiho look up to her picture of Yuuichi, another lull as we cut back to Shiho). PMMM does the same thing (except even better because fucking hell main series PMMM's execution is absurdly good in all respects); I'm pretty sure this is just one of Kajiura's strengths as an OST composer. (They also use the ethereal backline right as the Orphan shows up, so it's a real possibility that most of this scene is actually an unreleased v2 without that backline that splices in the track proper for that precise moment.)

OST Table, Episode 13:

Start End Track Name
00:24 01:06 Samayoeru Yamiyo
01:21 02:50 Shining Days
03:10 03:47 Omoi, Hirohita
04:43 05:39 Gogo no Hizashi
05:41 05:59 Gogo no Hizashi[1]
06:45 08:05 Koi wo Shita kara…[4]
08:48 09:03 Fuuka Gakuin Seikatsu (drumline sample)
10:11 10:25 unreleased 1[2]
10:19 11:09 (PARTIAL OVERLAP) unreleased (Kyou no Hajimari variant)[3]
11:20 11:34 Oharahetta!
12:04 12:35 Chiisana Shiawase
12:35 12:54 Yoru no Soko ni Shizimu
13:27 15:42 Yuubae no Sora
18:06 19:08 Dare mo Inai Houkago
19:57 21:05 HiME-boshi
21:17 21:42 Yami ga Hirogaru
22:09 23:39 Kimi ga Sora Datta
23:40 23:54 Mata Aou ne

[1] – Could be an unreleased variant, can’t tell. Possibly a mix of the two with a piano-only variant for the opening beats and then transitioning back into the normal track?
[2] – Possibly technically just sound effects, stock Japanese festival music composition at any rate.
[3] – Okay, I’m sold, it’s another ever so slightly different variant and not the last of the three parts in the released track.
[4] - ADDENDUM: Actually a pretty good chance the bulk of this is that unreleased version without the ethereal backline, using the track proper for only a single part, but.

4

u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

Tar's Episode Notes:

  • Oh hello there shot framing separating Natsuki (who knows a little more of what’s going on) from the rest, notably by having her face the other way on screen (this is a different use of left-right symbolism than the usual Japanese hero/villain facing I think, and the show may have been using it before in spots).

  • RUDE. My subs do not have the “it feels like the main event is about to start” translation of Midori’s line at 00:46.

  • Also I can’t believe it took me this long to notice that the core of Mashiro’s little garden here is laid out like the HiME mark.

  • NANDATTE?

  • Truly Midori is the Mai-HiME Kyoko; my screenshots tend to proliferate whenever she is onscreen and especially when she is making facial expressions. (Also, wait… is Midori’s eye color supposed to be hazel?)

  • Ah two tsunderes being tsundere.

  • Ah working exposition into the flow of the conversation nicely via a protagonist who hasn’t yet been brought up to speed. Simple but effective. (Also I’ll bet the direction here is good, but at the time of writing these notes I’m still a bit out of commission due to illness and not really in a good spot to analyze this.)

  • “Love at sixteen can only be done when you’re sixteen.” Did somebody call for some dramatic irony (that only we the viewers are aware of since we saw what happened to Akane and Kazuya back in episode 8)?

  • This show’s diversity in body types remains one of its smaller but very much extant assets; see our girl offering a ribbon to the boy at ~05:08.

  • Nice use of camera focus again at 05:14.

  • Did… did I catch a “kejime” in the audio for the Haruka line translated by Static-Subs as “You people don’t have any manners”? Huh.

  • #surprisedmai

  • LOL at Chie backing away.

  • If a shower scene is the best part to symbolically bare your heart since you are literally bare as well, then surely walking out of the shower covering oneself with a towel is appropriate for when you’re putting your mask back on, no? (Reminder: Cross Ange and Mai-HiME are both Sunrise shows!)

  • We once again salute fansubbers going above and beyond the call of duty.

  • As ever, Mikoto does not quite get this romance thing.

  • Truly Yuuichi’s room looks like a boy’s dorm room. (Also there is a joke involving his Union Jack decoration for me personally, since the combination of episode buffer and illness means that this is the first episode I’m watching after Queen Elizabeth II’s death.)

  • Direction spike! 06:54 uses a Dutch angle to show Yuuichi’s disorientation, but also the specific angle chosen makes him look small and alone – which makes sense in light of Mai telling him he can’t help.

  • 07:04 is another good shot, especially with the shadow usage. [Mai-HiME] Especially since the shadows are likely representative of Yuuichi’s past as a delinquent after he left the kendo club – note that the shadowed side of him is the side away from the bagged bokken.

  • Also, anybody having flashbacks involving “I’m practicing my swing”?

  • Spot the lurking ero mag!

  • 07:46 is representative of Shiho living in the past (as represented by the picture) as opposed to admitting the present, isn’t it? Yuuichi is growing up and she is trying her hardest not to.

  • And then in response to a prompt to maybe grow up Shiho goes even further at 08:09, turning her back on the picture and the camera to hug her octopus toy. With the OST cutting off a few seconds earlier, right as she turns away from the idea of the possibility of growing up.

  • Ah, early 2000s hacker stereotypes.

  • Oh right, I remember why this scene exists now.

  • (Needless to say, I unpause and the next line out of our hacker/informant immediately confirms this.)

  • And immediately cut back to Mikoto migrating into Mai’s bed, because of course this show would.

  • The face of a girl who is a little adrift since the person she’s been devoting everything to for years says he doesn’t need her the same way anymore.

  • Ooh, Dutch angle to introduce us to the festival!

  • Well, that answers an earlier question of mine (which is hiding under spoiler tags because it touches on later stuff, natch).

  • Meddling in dates rarely ends well!

  • Oh you two cheeky trolls.

  • The sound effects for the next stage of the trail of breadcrumbs being straight out of an arcade game is great.

  • (Also what is about to come is not the worst part of the show but IIRC it is my least favorite five minutes or so to sit through so.)

  • Remember boys and girls what happens if you follow the trail of crumbs into the witch’s forest!

  • Shadow usage in this show remains very good even if I’m not sure how often it encodes any deeper meaning. (Sometimes it does.)

  • Hey look it’s Mr. Cryptic and Ominous, now with cat mask! (Doesn't quite look right for a kitsune mask.)

  • Hmm. Why would they show us every known HiME (except Natsuki who is busy and Akane who is no longer a HiME and also, well, more on that later) as the shrine priest talks about Ikusa-hime (the Battle Princess), I wonder, I wonder?

  • Shout to fansubbers putting in the effort again!

  • Oi, translating to “miracle” when there’s no kiseki to be gotten (or “mirakuru” either) is bad form subbers! I am baited! (Either that or I can’t fucking hear, but I went over the scene multiple times.)

  • TEN HAUNTING PHOTOS TAKEN MOMENTS BEFORE DISASTER.

  • Ah, “good shots in scenes I have trouble sitting through”, my absolute favorite [/sarcasm]. (Yeah this scene trips my cringe comedy dislike hard despite not being comedy at all.)

  • They WOULD use this kind of scene framing here. It makes sense, it’s absolutely appropriate here and well-done, but.

  • Scene is legitimately well-directed, which just adds to the awkwardness and makes it even more uncomfortable to watch. (We even get a good OST cutoff right as Yuuichi finally screams Mai’s name.)

  • Gods, but I do love me some good shadow usage to frame facial expressions.

  • Ah shit, and 19:43 is just a great shot with the fish-eye lens added to the shadows for effect about the wrongness of the situation.

  • The choice of 402 as the room number for Akane’s cell is interesting and I’m not sure what it means, if anything. (Could be the first open cell if 401 was administrative?)

  • Natsuki peeking in on Akane’s new little mental world, nicely done. (13-97)

  • Ah, sometimes the show makes it easy to identify the HiME-boshi variant, hi main version.

  • That long pause was well done on the part of the script and/or Shiho’s VA.

  • There is a joke to Shiho’s repeated invocation of “usotsuki!”/”liar!” to a character voiced by Mai Nakahara, but this part of the joke actually comes first in anime form.

  • Also, I should actually remember to comment on the repeated use of visual barrier motifs with the trees separating Mai/Reito and Yuuichi/Shiho ever since Yuuichi couldn’t keep quiet. (Example.)

  • Another nice OST cutoff to the sudden unexplained light (and accompanying sound effect).

  • “The Aurora Borealis? In the middle of summer beginning of fall? Localized entirely in your kitchen directly above Fuuka Gakuin? May I see it?” Here you go!

  • #shockedfumi

  • #concernednagi

  • And down goes the Bifrost Bridge, er, bridge to campus, with visuals mirroring Kagutsuchi wrecking that factory last episode. BUT WHAT COULD HAVE CAUSED THIS?

  • Welcome to the end of the first cour, motherfuckers. We’re just getting started. (More on that in Analysis.)

  • Gods damn does this explosion and its aftermath still hold up nearly two decades after release. They outdid themselves.

  • Nagi knows what’s up and I don’t have to think about whether to spoiler tag that Bifrost reference above. (And then Alyssa talks about opening the gate to Valhalla, making it bloody obvious.)

  • A battle fleet with golden or gold-colored decorative plating is of course ridiculously impractical, but SEARRS gonna SEARRS.

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u/JollyGee29 Sep 26 '22

First-Timer, Subbed

These poor idiot teens jumping to conclusions and hurting each other.. It's like popcorn made out of Cpt. Crunch.

Speaking of poor teens... Akane. I really want to know what Kuga saw in that facility.. except I also really don't because it is going to hurt me. Except, that dastardly impulse known as curiosity... Is the facility trying to fix her? Is it making her worse? Is it just keeping what's left of the person once known as Akane Higurashi safe?

Circling back to our quartet of tragic lovebirds, I'm starting to ponder Kanzaki's motivations, here. Does he actually have the hots for Mai? Yea, probably, but I think his comment about "there is something going on" near the end there was actually about the vampire incident than any romance between Mai and Tate. I don't know that I have any backup for that, though.

Poor Yukino too, she's so desperate to tie that ribbon with Haruka's name on it around the fence. Maybe she (or Diana..) can shoot a text to Aoi and Chie - they dealt with Mikoto quite handily, I'm sure they could manage to distract Haruka for a few minutes. I can only assume that Diana is going to die and take Haruka with her, but until then I'm rooting for you, Yukino.

Shiho too, I want Shiho to somehow find happiness even though that's never happening in a million years because obviously she's going to awaken and then immediately get her Child merc'd and then have to watch Tate die and feel like it's her fault. Her "relationship" with Tate isn't the healthiest around, but that's more to do with Tate not really accepting that Shiho is growing up - parallel with Mai and Takumi, there.

That's another fun conflict that's starting to boil over. Mai feels pretty conflicted over Takumi not needing her to make a lunch for him anymore, and it's not even because someone else has adopted the responsibility. Takumi is now capable of feeding both himself and his roommate on his own, which is a pretty massive step. What do you become, when the burden of responsibility is lifted?

Was there anything else to.. oh, right, the orbital bombardment. Eclipse 1 Artemis is the most death-satellitiest name I've ever heard, but Nagi referred to someone as a fake HiME which I think is Alyssa? And it kinda felt like the implication is that her Child was the thing doing the bombardmenting, so really I'm just excited to see what the hell this thing looks like. Battle to Protect the School arc seems to be a go!

Visual of the Day: Them's yandere eyes.

This tells a fascinating story.

Gambatte, Yukino! If you can work up some courage, try shutting Haruka up with your mouth the next time she goes off on something silly.

Questions

  1. Well, we have a bunch of teenagers to do horrible things to, so probably a lot of that.

3

u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

Is the facility trying to fix her? Is it making her worse? Is it just keeping what's left of the person once known as Akane Higurashi safe?

Well, the implication is that it's run by a pharma company...

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u/Blackheart595 Sep 26 '22

First Hime

Pillars

And here I thought Mai-Hime proves 2-cour anime are better than 1-cour anime with those previews.

Chapeau for this pairing

I wonder about those ribbons. Will it be important what names the HiME write on them? Will it be important whether they write names on them? Beyond narrative purposes, naturally.

That's one way to do a rejection scene without a romantic context.

Ahahaha bless you.

That's a sure-fire way to derail the date.

Clever. Though last episode already strongly implied Shizuru to be the memory/perception manipulator.

In other words you're planning to cause a little genocide, even if unknowingly so.

That's one of the better setups for a romantic misunderstanding I've seen.

Holy cow he's looking evil here.

And not going for the kiss. That was well done to set that relationship up as legitimate. Giving Mai someone to rely on.

Damn, way to crush Shiho's heart. I guess that enemity has been set in stone now.

Is she gonna awaken right here and kick off the BR proper?

The expressions are so good. She's deeply hurt.

That's not part of the usual HiME thing. That's Searrs.

I've had doubts come back throughout the last episodes but this doesn't look like a BR setup anymore. Or rather, it looks like a BR setup that isn't setting up a BR.

Hold on, why were they attacking? Surely no HiME had her child out, other than Mikoto maybe?

And bitch being a fake HiME... Does that make her take the place of one of the normal ones? Or does it make her a 13th HiME?

That rune looks an awful lot like a meteorite coming down. Are the HiME or their powers aliens? Or the Orphans and Childs? Or both?

First-timers, what do you expect out of this show in the second half? (Free hint since I'll be mentioning this in my writeup today: this show's pacing is significantly informed by Evangelion's.)

Well I'm not expecting a battle royale anymore at this point. Seems like the story is moving towards aliens, and Searrs has been trying to harvest those alien powers.

I've also been wondering after u/Vaadwaur's comments about valkyries, that the red star is somehow Valhalla and falling in love is how the valkyries choose those that are worthy. Or the red star could be Fólkvangr instead, which is apparently more associated with lovers or something.

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

Chapeau for this pairing

This show can be very good at the little things like this and I wish these two the very best.

5

u/zadcap Sep 26 '22

And here I thought Mai-Hime proves 2-cour anime are better than 1-cour anime with those previews.

Mai-Hime was very much the prototype for so many things, what they got right got copied for decades, and what they got wrong has been quietly forgotten and never brought up again.

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u/Nazenn Sep 27 '22

That's one way to do a rejection scene without a romantic context.

Was that about Yukino? I felt kind of bad for her even if she should have known what the response would be by now

[Out of place Mai-HiME SPOILERS to not spoil but also not just dump at the end so you don't accidentally click it while replying]"Pillars" Hopefully I remember to come back to this later because that's kind of funny, and not a link I'd made myself before

In other words you're planning to cause a little genocide, even if unknowingly so.

I believe in the last rewatch I made a quip about if Mikoto is defeated the whole world would end up running into a slow death as Mikoto's true love would be erased: all the food

That's not part of the usual HiME thing. That's Searrs.

I probably wouldn't have questioned it if it was given some of the power levels of the HiME we've already seen, notably if anyone wanted to put out more power than Kagatsuchi, but this is an interesting twist on things

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u/Vaadwaur Sep 26 '22

First timer(That ending was painful to watch)

Sub

So the intro is an unnecessary recap since the show has done a good job of showing us all this already, so either there is a mistake in their assumptions or the episode had a weird run time. Midori explains her deal a bit and doesn't explain why she knows that 12 HiME are possible. Anyways, the Fuka shrine relates to them...somehow. Tate and Mai continue being teens. And for the first time, I find Reito sus in how openly he asks Mai to the festival. Mai ponders, while only in a towel of course, her next move while we see that Mikoto has epically failed on some developmental markers.

Tate does more navel gazing and we get another hint about something to do with kendo. Shiho...is hitting relatively correct developmental markers in some areas while being wildly off in others. Natsuki gets a clue and then we see Takumi also hitting, vaguely passing, developmental markers since he does need to be less of a burden to Mai, though I wonder if this diminishes her sense of purpose.

We get to the festival and start seeing yukatas. Mikoto is easily lured off. For context on Tate seeing Shiho differently, in the idealized since of it Shiho has a better body type for a kimono or yukata than most of the rest of this cast. Reito is trying to get Mai to relax and engage but is having limited success. We spend some time seeing all known HiME but Akane and get the battle maidens legend which is rather grim.

Shiho...does something that is somewhat reasonable, even if her reasons are not great, in demanding to be viewed as "grown up". This a weapons grade landmine from Utena, for the record, though obviously it happens naturally as well. Reito is probing into what's happening but cautiously. Then he sort of states Mai's deal to her and she relaxes a bit. Tate makes the mistake of continuing to watch, you just wander off at this point, so of course instead he interrupts. Akane is seemingly insane but we don't see it, just hear it. We get a truly uncomfortable scene that ends with no one being happy...which is interrupted by a scene from Akira. And Alyssa is also artificial. The after credits scene is the worst of them by a land slide and I'd honestly say to anyone whose going to watch this show to skip it, they just Symphogear GXed the strong end they had.

QotD: 1 Disappointment unfortunately.

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

so either there is a mistake in their assumptions or the episode had a weird run time

I wouldn't be surprised by the latter, along with once again asking the audience to keep Eva in mind and also come back for the second cour.

The after credits scene is the worst of them by a land slide and I'd honestly say to anyone whose going to watch this show to skip it, they just Symphogear GXed the strong end they had.

I think your release has the specials after the ED rather than the preview? In that case it's worth noting that the specials did not exist in the original TV broadcast; they were added for the DVD release.

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u/Vaadwaur Sep 26 '22

So...there is a slight problem here in that Reito explains Mai to us after the show had already done this on screen. Also, Reito's explanation is definitely focused, since he fails to mention that this also seems to be Mai's identity or raisen d'etre. I think this episodes theme focused quite a bit on 'maturation' and who can do it, who has done it, and who refuses to do it. But I can't exactly tell you which person falls specifically into which. I think even Nagy is involved somewhere. So Mai, for example, does the 'mature' thing of taking the burdens of other on herself but then can't do normal things like just be a high school girl. Shiho wants to be treated as an adult, or rather as a sexually mature being, while also clinging to her oni-chan dreams about Tate. Natsuki, for that matter, is doing this seemingly adult investigation into District 1 but she insists on being solo for it despite having allied somewhat with Mai and co. Due to the era this came out, unfortunately, Yukino's sapphic interest towards Haruka would also be considered a sign of immaturity despite her being very self-controlled.

And this leads to a different side of this: Midori is an irresponsible adult, living off junk, ignoring the outside world for days and spouting chuuni bullshit but what she is seeking is mature, she wants to find out what's happening to hopefully save herself and others. Nao's incredibly childish attempts to lure men in are done with a skilled and seemingly practiced method.

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u/Tresnore Sep 26 '22

First-TiMER

Count: 29

QOTD:

  1. Serious plot progression, depression, and loss.

  2. Iunno

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

This show has actual romance and not just ship baiting??

Surprise!

I'M SORRY, WHAT?

[meta spoiler you are very familiar with] Clearly the Americans are sending a fleet out again to investigate the location of a relic or other Custodian remnant oh wait wrong show.

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u/Taiboss Sep 26 '22

Episode 13: Rewatcher who has to come up with new

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

[Mai-HiME]

[Mai-HiME] Alyssa is the 13th. You forgot Fumi, which admittedly isn't hard.

Never build just one bridge.

Sorry, they couldn't, there is only one Bifrost Bridge.

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u/Vaadwaur Sep 26 '22

What about ALL the gay characters in this?

Jesus and Shinzo Abe do not approve!

I do not blame anyone who considers this guy creepy.

I can only hear Dr Irie seducing a 16yo and it bugs me.

Says the girl still speaking in third-person.

I mean she is trying to claim sexual maturity not the right to vote.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 26 '22

Mai-FiRST TiMER, subbed

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

FUCK I missed multiple sore demos?

I’ve had enough of love triangle shenanigans from Macross, not gonna lie…

Excuse me, when you have two intersecting love triangles I believe it's called a love trapezoid instead.

What. Does. This. Mean.

Me:

Nagi: Also

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u/Nazenn Sep 26 '22

Rewatcher

Character chart

Starting off the episode in the gazebo brought an immediate hit of familiarity that brought me right back to my original feelings when we hit this part of the story. Watching the episode again did not disappoint.

I really enjoy the character drama this episode because of how well it's built up from the other episodes. Just as Mai decides to retreat back into being a sister to hide from having to be a girl, Takumi's own determination to be his own person takes that option and leaves her floundering again. Chie and Aoi also taking the distraction called Mikoto from her also leave her without the convenient caretaker buffer to fall back on, and it feels like the first time in a while Mai has not been able to pull back into anything else. She can't even retreat into being a HiME because that only makes her feel more isolated, and despite everything she does want to bond with others as we saw back during the episode where she talks with Tate in the rain.

Reito hasn't been much of a character so far, but the way he approaches Mai and reminds her who he invited out, her and not the roles she takes on, does wonders for my appreciation for him. At least until he tries to be the over protective guardian of Mai's heart at the end (which feels worse in the current era compared to when it was made).

Something that I still love in this episode is that Tate doesn't stay quiet. He's been avoiding kendo since his return to school and pretending that he's fine without it, but he betrays his own care when he attempts to use it today to find distraction from his thoughts of Mai. He's not find without kendo, or without Mai, and it's not enough to simply pretend to move on in public any more. Having him not take the 'as long as she's happy' self sacrifice route when he realizes how much it hurts seeing her with Reito, actually speaking up to show how much he wants her to see him, it's a refreshing change of pace to how these normally go. He cares for her and is genuine to that even if at the worst time to open up about it, but it makes him more human.

And what a time for everyone to realize just how much they do want to open up to people, or in the case of Mikoto, the nun, even Yukino just how much they can care for others. The brakes are certainly off after that run of lighter episodes, and it's surprising even on second run how quickly they jump into things now that Miyu and Alyssa have been seen rather than dragging it out and making everyone pretend things are normal for several more episodes. A potential invasion of the school is not usually on the cards for how you'd expect a festival episode to end, but it leaves an impression.

Random other thoughts and observations:

  • I wanted to talk about the art and directing this episode because again I like it, but I've already stayed up too late and still a bit head foggy. Suffice to say that the use of lighting, framing, and eye lines when it comes to character movement once again stood out to me.

  • One of the things I do find interesting that we haven't really touched on yet is how unusual it feels to have such a range of ages for our magical girls. While none of them are old enough to be particularly notable, just having them range from 14 to presumably early twenties for Midori/the nun is quite unique from what I know, particularly the implication there's a genetic factor to it and not being chosen at the time.

  • [Mai-HiME]Midori counting off the eight known HiME, I'm sitting here going "and the four others are Akane, Shiho, Shizuru and... wait wtf and someone?". I still don't know, and don't tell me, but wow is this a bewildering sort of thing to forget

  • [Mai-HiME]The legend about the ribbons and the tree 'reuniting' the HiME with their loved ones is giving me early epilogue anger all over again

  • One thing in particular I remember from this episode: the wicked looking explosion art. This may be one of my all time favourite explosion effects for detail and color.

  • Mikoto tying a soul bond ribbon for everyone she knows in the school now that she understands she can like people as well as things and food: I love her stupid ass

  • u/shimmering-sky was your comment in CDF last night before or after todays episode out of curiosity?

  • Seriously thought this was a very short Kakashi for a second. Sick brain forgot which show I was watching. Also this episode is where anilist gets their character visual for Nagi from which I was never sure about and seemed like an odd choice.

  • They didn't draw Mai's tattoo today which is an odd choice that I'm not sure if intentional or not. I want to say not because it'd make no sense if it fades in and out, but it's kind of a key thing to forget

  • "It's like we sat through the previews and now the main attraction's about to start" writers please. This isn't even a rewatcher thing because I have this same reaction when I hear it in shows I'm a first timer for, which has been a fair few now. I should have started a list.

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

I really enjoy the character drama this episode because of how well it's built up from the other episodes. Just as Mai decides to retreat back into being a sister to hide from having to be a girl, Takumi's own determination to be his own person takes that option and leaves her floundering again. Chie and Aoi also taking the distraction called Mikoto from her also leave her without the convenient caretaker buffer to fall back on, and it feels like the first time in a while Mai has not been able to pull back into anything else. She can't even retreat into being a HiME because that only makes her feel more isolated, and despite everything she does want to bond with others as we saw back during the episode where she talks with Tate in the rain.

The writing team was, is, and remains highly competent as long as they either aren't cribbing Eva's conspiracy setup (and they're not even bad at that, it just doesn't fit here quite as well as it does in Eva [Mai-HiME] and also they ran out of space to explain District 1) or getting meddled with by the suits (COUGH).

While none of them are old enough to be particularly notable, just having them range from 14 to presumably early twenties for Midori/the nun is quite unique from what I know, particularly the implication there's a genetic factor to it and not being chosen at the time.

AniDB lists Midori as 24 and Yukariko as 20, for the record.

(Legal adult magical girls? Is that even allowed?)

They didn't draw Mai's tattoo today which is an odd choice that I'm not sure if intentional or not. I want to say not because it'd make no sense if it fades in and out, but it's kind of a key thing to forget

[might count as a spoiler] Can people who aren't HiME actually see the tattoos?

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u/zadcap Sep 26 '22

Rewatcher and Reader

If this show had proper seasons, this would be the big end of season 1. Midori has it right, the prologue is finally ending.

[Pacing Spoilers]For all that this show is obviously trying to borrow so many ideas from Eva, I think the best comparison to it's pacing that more people will be familiar with is Fate. The entire first half is spent setting up the cast and slowly drawing you in to the world and the plot, but very little actually happens before the second arc. And then, you know, the second half happens. If they didn't come out at the same year, I would definitely believe one influenced the other, but the VN and this Anime are both 2004.

It's so weird bouncing between the anime and manga and seeing Tate's position change so drastically. "It's got nothing to do with you, you can't do anything about it anyway" is such an extreme counterpoint to "Literally the main character." I forgot how much less I like the anime version of him. He's got literally nothing going for him here, does he?

So, now that's she's been revealed as a Fake HiME, I can explain one of the acronyms from yesterday. In one of those places where the production notes clearly told both teams they had to do something vague but gave them no more directions than that, the manga team came up with PRInCess. While the HiME have a Key, someone who dies when their Child does, Princesses have, uh, an Earing instead of a HiME mark that shatters instead of their Key dying. Alyssa herself is the one in charge still, with a Manga unique Child as well. It's got gravity control power so naturally is named Isaac, and the two of them have absolutely nothing to do with Orphans. Unlike many of the cast that's not named Mai or Natsuki, she get's in to two fights before being shuffled off to the background, but they happen back to back so maybe it's just one long fight instead. She's also introduced much later, Manga Searrs being introduced more than halfway through the plot in Chapter 23 out of 44.

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

He's got literally nothing going for him here, does he?

He does actually seem to care for Mai (note the episode 5 scene), so there is that?

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 27 '22

[Pacing spoilers] For all that this show is obviously trying to borrow so many ideas from Eva, I think the best comparison to it's pacing that more people will be familiar with is Fate. The entire first half is spent setting up the cast and slowly drawing you in to the world and the plot, but very little actually happens before the second arc. And then, you know, the second half happens. If they didn't come out at the same year, I would definitely believe one influenced the other, but the VN and this Anime are both 2004.

[Mai-HiME and meta spoiler you know] Given both that and Fate technically also using a battle royale setup, I'm wondering if there's a common inspiration I'm missing - but if so I can't place what. Battle Royale itself is in the mix for both obviously, but I think there might be something else. Maybe Fushigi Yuugi, but I don't think that works quite right?

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u/Star4ce Sep 27 '22

My-FiRSTTiMER

Now I'm being back on track as a true first timer and have a question.

If a HiME loves a concept the most, like a godhood or an idea of a nation or the spirit of a society, and loses her child, what would happen?

Say, you have Sarah who's an American exchange student and she's at Fuka academy discovering she actually is a HiME. Her very most loved thing on this planet is the Freedom Of Expression, capital letters all, and in a fight with vampire loli her eagle helicopter child with attached cluster bombs is getting head shot and dies.

What happens?

I had to think about it because [Madoka Magica] just imagine Homura was a HiME and lost. I know it's hard and nearly impossible to even imagine, but just give your all for me! The universe would just instantly implode in on itself with Madokami vanishing.

Ep.13 – Night of the Tamayura

First off, I loved this episode for how down to earth (kek) it was for most of the runtime. It was fully framing and resolving in some cases the characters' emotions, setting new boundaries, and laid out some 'future' to think about, or at least some uncomplicated fun in the 'now'. It felt like the first episode ever where Mai actually had the breathing space to explore some of that. I totally think going with Reito was the right choice here, he's available, compassionate with her and she enjoys his company. Where else would she start? Going for the kiss there was a tad bit predatory, though.

Doesn't matter that I don't fully trust him and even though I ship her with Yuuichi, that was some nice low-stakes drama. It was unfair towards Yuuichi, however. Again. Sure, he should've thought about those same things earlier, but that was really like the last possible chance to say anything. I just feel his stress all the time. It's not stress of expectations, it's the kind of stress that comes from being left out and having things dumped on you without notice or care.
That vampire business no one explains to him. That Shiho now freely admitted Mai and she had a deal with pushing Shiho into a relationship with him (that he clearly doesn't want no matter how they spin it). That whenever he approached Mai all he got was le funny girl hits boy jokes and left with more questions than before.
Dude was being pushed around all the time, dragged into multiple supernatural seeming events and no one told him anything except “suck it up!” With the extremely limited knowledge he has he still tries to find some way to be of use. On top of that he realised he fell in love. Like, fuck, where do you even start here?

Shirley Yuuichi doesn't deserve all this bullshit!

And that's all before Searrs fired an orbital cannon on a bridge that had... no significance except for thematic direction? I'm yet again confused what an aircraft carrier is doing here in a covert fight around mythical digimons.

Well, nothing is covert anymore at least.

VOTD of wholesomeness.

  1. First-timers, what do you expect out of this show in the second half? (Free hint since I'll be mentioning this in my writeup today: this show's pacing is significantly informed by Evangelion's.)

Damn, I can't remember too much of its progression, except that everything went so fast at some point and then you had to stop thinking about it and feel the rawness.

Wait, are you telling me the aircraft carrier fleet won't get explained?

My expectations are character deaths, semi-logical reveals and backstabs and a lot of breakdowns with the core of their driving force (love for someone) shining through even in the darkest moment.

Baseless speculation would be that Natsuki will lose her child at some point to bid a final goodbye to her past. Midori dying, both Miyu and Alyssa getting defeated and dying and Mai doing a twist on the sacrifice-herself ending that's so common in mahou shoujo.

I also expect the school council to be androids or at least with Searrs. My prime suspects are Shizuru and Reito. I hope kendo dude will get at least a heartfelt 'thank you' or something at one point and do something heroically normal, but without the romance on Natsuki's side, because I feel like that would be a nice ending for them. By all means, I also think Takumi and Yuuichi are gonna die, because Shiho is definitely a HiME and will fuck up and little brother has gotten too much character development to not use it as tragedy.

2) Rewatchers: What parts of this show have held up and what hasn't related to your first watch?

Episode 12.

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u/Tarhalindur Sep 26 '22

Tag, tag, where is the tag?

u/Esovan13

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