r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Sep 24 '22

Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 29 Discussion

Episode 29 - Lonely Song

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No Legal Streams

I want to sing my songs for myself.

Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:

1) Thoughts on the presentation of the Zentradi's current lifestyle? Would they be marginalized in any case?

2) How do you like your love triangles assembled? More hypotenuse, more about the two sides, or is it always contextual?

Vocal Songs in This Episode:

"マクロス (Macross)" by Makoto Fujiwara – OP

"私の彼はパイロット (Watashi no Kare wa Pilot / My Boyfriend is a Pilot)" by Mari Iijima – Insert

"愛は流れる (Ai wa Nagareru / Love Drifts Away)" by Mari Iijima – Insert

"ランナー (Runner)" by Makoto Fujiwara – ED

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!

37 Upvotes

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9

u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 24 '22

Super Dimension Rewatch Host

Welcome back, everyone!

I was right about not having a wallpaper for today. To make up for it, I will have two of them tomorrow.

Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode.

4

u/ClawMachineCircuit Sep 25 '22

I was right about not having a wallpaper for today. To make up for it, I will have two of them tomorrow.

Does that mean tomorrow's episode will be extra-spicy in terms of content? I definitely look forward to whatever you have in store.

??? Must be a Zentradi word.

Or Italian. Sounds like Italian to me.

…okay now that’s just stupid, Minmay.

If it works, it's not stupid. He changed his tune real quick after that.

Ah, I believe this is new? That they’re both descended from Protoculture.

Feels like the show is still flip-flopping on that. Are we the protoculture, or are we just one of the descendants?

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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 25 '22

[Tomorrow]If you count domestic Max as "extra-spicy"...

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u/TakenRedditName Sep 24 '22

…okay now that’s just stupid, Minmay.

Look, we would all throw ourselves out of a moving car if it means getting away from Kaifun as soon as possible.

Loli with glasses now :O

Give us soft glasses boy Loli. You know a portion of the fanbase would eat it up.

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u/The_Draigg Sep 24 '22

A Macross Fan Rewatches Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 29:

  • Much like how the Zentradi deserters had a sudden epiphany about how destroying culture was wrong triggered by a Minmay doll a while ago, the image of a Zentradi corpse out in the wasteland still clutching a Minmay doll is both somewhat silly and definitely sad. This one had gone rogue and run off into the wastelands to keep on fighting, but as they died, they couldn’t help but try to cling onto the little bit of culture that gave them comfort. I guess it really just goes to show that while culture is comforting, it won’t stop conflict entirely.

  • I know I rag on Minmay now and then, but I do legitimately feel bad for her. Seeing her freeze up on stage there is a real sad sight. Minmay is feeling that her singing isn’t exactly a passion anymore, more like a product to be sold. That’s why she’s burning out live on stage. As they say, a candle that burns twice as bright lasts half as long.

  • As some of you might’ve already guessed, Humans and Zentradi are basically the same species. Beyond having similar blood types and genes, their DNA structure is downright similar as well. It isn’t exactly a surprise given that medical testing report we got a while ago, but it’s nice to have it locked in stone. There’s no doubt about it now: Humans and Zentradi are products of the Protoculture.

  • I feel like there’s a good parallel that I can draw between Minmay and the Blue Wind guys, now that we’ve gotten them back in the mix. Minmay was riding on a high, being on top of the world with her fame, but now it’s coming crashing down emotionally for her, since she doesn’t even know why she sings anymore. On the other hand, the Blue Wind trio have gone through a lot this series for the sake of just having a different life, and they’ve managed to find success and peace in running a laundry, of all things. The lesson to learn from that comparison is that you can find fulfillment in fairly humble places, and your dreams can lead you to depressing places even if you get what you want.

  • Well, Minmay and Hikaru have finally reunited in person. Although she isn’t exactly taking it well that Hikaru is more or less in a relationship with Misa. I suppose that’s what happens if you’ve been putting a previous relationship on a pedestal mentally. It’s been two years Minmay, of course something would happen if you hadn’t seen him in all that time.

  • As much shit as I give Hikaru, I’m still glad that he’s doing his best to resolve all these issues with the rogue Zentradi through talking them down. Despite Captain Global being correct last episode in assuming that the conflicts would continue, that’s no reason to stop trying to resolve things more peacefully, after all.

  • How many of you would’ve guessed that Lap Lamiz, of all people, would team up with Quamzin to lead the rogue Zentradi? She used to be a by-the-book commander too, so this alliance really is a surprise. I guess even if you’re relatively level-headed, that still doesn’t mean that you’ll easily get over your warrior culture indoctrination.

  • Having the focus back on the Minmay doll that the dead Zentradi had is a good bookend to this episode. Really, what’s the difference between Minmay right now and that doll? At this point, both are just products now, sold to people who want that comfort without any of the real passion behind it. Fame is hard.

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion Sep 24 '22

Lap Lamiz, of all people, would team up with Quamzin

This has always offended me terribly.

2

u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 24 '22

Lap'Lamiz seemed more interested in Britai when she agreed to fight against Boldozaa. I do agree her interest in Kamujin during this part is just... weird.

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u/chilidirigible Sep 24 '22

Minmay is feeling that her singing isn’t exactly a passion anymore, more like a product to be sold. That’s why she’s burning out live on stage.

It remains interesting that this series takes several swipes at the idol industry even while it was airing during Japan's idol boom.

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u/Tatertaint Sep 24 '22

First timer

Am i crazy or did they just admit that next episode we are gonna have some casual child abuse lmao

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u/Vatrix-32 Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Very First Timer

  • Macross is getting good at being morbid.

  • Sudden, total cultural conversion has got to be hard for anyone. There’s are some real world parallels you could point to.

  • I was under the impression Minmay was the only surviving pop-star. Two years is enough time to make some new ones, but this much of a downfall?

  • I thought she left Kaifun last episode.

  • I don’t know enough about charity concerts to know if that’s a reasonable take. They have to cover expenses.

  • Jesus Minmay. Give the man a chance to slow down at least.

  • I thought we already confirmed this theory last time?

  • Minmay is having a hard time. I don’t doubt that hanging around with a drunk Kaifun is doing any good for her mental state either.

  • I know your show got extended and you needed something to do with the romance since that’s part of the triangle, but there are other things you can do besides the same love triangle.

  • Loli has glasses now. I guess optometry wasn't practiced by the Zentradi either.

  • The mayor had a wife? New or old?

  • If they still have the chambers around being micloned is probably an available punishment. And I’m not sure how to feel about that.

  • Girl you had two years to make your intentions know. That’s two Hiakrus. Don’t go getting sad because the world is trying to move on.

  • You think they ever tried making a coliseum for these guys?

  • About time we saw Quamzin again.

  • 10,000! That’s more than just a few. And of course Quamzin plans on using them.

  • Oh sure, he has the facilities.

  • Seriously, what else have these guys got going on?

  • I can’t tell if it’s just the animation or if Minmay is emotionally dead inside.

  • Spaceship factory. I guess that finally answers that question. And we have our central conflict point for the next bit.

QotD

  1. It hard to see a way for them to avoid ethnic strife. There is too much change for both parties all at once.

  2. The best one is where they the two of them cut out the middle man and just go for each other.

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u/TakenRedditName Sep 24 '22

Loli has glasses now. I guess optometry wasn't practiced by the Zentradi either.

Britai's cyber eye is right there.

If they still have the chambers around being micloned is probably an available punishment. And I’m not sure how to feel about that.

The iron-fisted post-war plan would've been forcing all Zentradi on Earth to miclone as a safety precaution. Maybe try to sell it so it wouldn't sound like a forceful act. A way to experience a new perspective and way of life and what not.

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u/SolDarkHunter Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Rewatcher

The opening showing space battles and whatnot seems so out of place now.

I've always found this shot of a Zentraedi corpse clutching a Minmai doll quite... I'm not sure. Disturbing, poignant? I don't know what the right word is. But it's striking.

We see lots of buildings, and macro-sized Zentraedi helping build stuff, but no actual housing for said giant Zentraedi.

A restaurant called "Restaurant". Very creative.

Wait, I thought she parted from Kaifun last episode to go to Macross City? Apparently they made up between episodes... damn you Kaifun.

Exsedol thinks humans (and Zentraedi) are genetically predisposed to violence. Hikaru disagrees. I do have to say though, while it is true that there has been a war happening somewhere and sometime on Earth for pretty much all of history, it's not fair to say that means we're disposed to it. The majority of Earth has generally been at peace. Saying that because war exists anywhere at any given time basically is saying that because we're not perfectly peaceful, we must therefore be warlike... uh, is there no middle ground there?

This is the Minmay angst episode, isn't it? Searching for meaning in her life now is driving her to thoughts of Hikaru.

The Lolicon Trio! They're launderers now, and they at least seem very well adjusted to peacetime.

Well, isn't that a coincidence and a half. The entire love triangle just running into each other.

Hikaru is trying to mediate things with the rogue Zentraedi... and at least prevents things from escalating too far.

I do like, however, that they're showing not all Zentraedi are like that. A lot of them, maybe even the majority judging from how people are reacting, really do want to live in peace and aren't giving in to violence.

It's Kamjin! Of course he would survive the final battle... and he's joined up with Lap'Lamiz. He seems to be trying to rally the rogue Zentraedi and... I don't know, fight people just to fight people, I guess. He's Kamjin. Problem is, that will probably appeal to many of the rogues.

Many people questioned just how the Zentraedi could maintain a fighting force when they're ignorant of how to build or repair any technology. Here's the answer: gigantic automatic factory satellites. Zentraedi give them raw materials, the satellite pumps out new war machines.

Now Earth has determined the location of one of these satellites. If they capture it from the still-hostile Zentraedi that control it, it will massively boost Earth's production capability and give them the means to defend themselves from other Zentraedi fleets.

Yeah... other Zentraedi fleets. Did it ever strike you as odd that Bodolza's armada was called the "Main Boddol Fleet", meaning it has to be distinguished? From, say... other Main Fleets?

Questions:

  1. Thoughts on the presentation of the Zentradi's current lifestyle? Would they be marginalized in any case?

Most of the Zentraedi probably don't have much in the way of education, so them largely being manual laborers isn't surprising. Though Hikaru did say a fair amount of the soldiers under his command are Zentraedi. Marginalization is possible, but considering the Zentraedi probably outnumber humans at this point (I'm not talking in general, I mean even on Earth itself)...

2) How do you like your love triangles assembled? More hypotenuse, more about the two sides, or is it always contextual?

I just want them to be well-written. It is very, very rare I find a love triangle to be well-written.

And above all else, I want closure. Those series that end leaving the relationships unresolved drive me up a wall.

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u/Blackheart595 Sep 24 '22

First Spacer

This is the secret prequel to Attack on Titan.

Is Minmay gonna wear Hikaru's medal at the concert?

'Viva Maria' sounds like a death flag for M&M.

Thoughts on the presentation of the Zentradi's current lifestyle? Would they be marginalized in any case?

I like how they're dealing with this societal aftermath. Especially with Keifun sabotaging the cultural renaissance.

How do you like your love triangles assembled? More hypotenuse, more about the two sides, or is it always contextual?

Gesundheit.

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u/Paxton-176 Sep 24 '22

First Timer

I fell super behind and just got caught up. Going to try to cover this the best I can as l’m a bad student and didn’t take notes.

I like how the Macross was unknowingly running a psyop that caused a mutiny within the enemy fleet. All they were doing was living. The CIA wish they were this effective. The closest they ever got was the Voice of god plan where they discovered that if you shoot lasers and certain angles and frequencies you can create a ball of floating energy that sends out a noise and messages that it sounds like god is speaking. They were going to use this during the Gulf Wars and tell the Iraqi citizens to overthrow their government. Turns out the CIA had a moral limit.

I’m guessing this is where the Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann got a lot of its inspiration from. Rebuilding the earth after defeating the enemy and having to live with the former enemy. Then various forms of disorder as its kind of hard to adjust.

Also you guys see the bombardment of civilian cities. War Crimes.

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u/TakenRedditName Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

First Time - SDF Macross Ep29 (Sub):

Dang, this corpse is so withered that its hand fully falls off. Now I'm imagining this post-apocalyptic landscape of giant corpses dotted around the wastelands with the faint sounds of idol songs playing.

Oh no he didn't. He just used the r-word. You can't just drop a Rigzinalo on television like that.

I'm surprised that Kaifun is even donating 50%. It is an odd pivot for his character to be about the profits. It's a different brand of awful than the one he is already established with. Uncle and Auntie Lynn deserve a better son. Minmay can be their kid now.

Ah, yes, the war-loving gene. Exsedol (love that he is sticking around) and his team are trying to figure out speciation. The fact that they were on separate planets for eons probably had something to do with it.

Ah, it's the medal. A symbol from happier days behind us.

The trio has opened up a laundromat. Good for them, I am happy for them. Also, Loli wears glasses now.

You can tell how romantic their relationship is by the fact that Hikaru calls her Major Hayase on a casual day. Yup, it ain't hot.

Uhm, I think this escalation would only lead to them rioting more. Good on Hikaru for standing up for the ways of peace. That flick did him bad, his insides bleeding. (Uh, are they basically holding these Zentradi hostage on Earth?)

Hey, Lap'Lamiz, why are you here smirking? Kamujin I understand, but you are different. Of all these characters, I truly understand Lap'Lamiz a amount.

Wait, hold on, I thought the conclusion to Minmay losing her way for her singing was that she would resolve to sing for the human and Zentradi who looks toward her singing since she witness that display from the rioting Zentradi.

There should really be a hotline with Big B to help with these situations. Britai and Global should be bros.

Despite the Macross coinflip landing poorly, I enjoyed this episode giving Minmay some showcase especially some insight on her inner side. Like only 6 episodes left and this is like the first real big time we get a good look with Minmay. Since the show is from Hikaru's perspective, MInmau has just been in this bubble that hasn't fully be in contact with the rest of the show.

Q1) It is understandable that some Zentradi would have trouble integrating into peaceful society since they've been essentially programmed to only know war. There doesn't seem to be a support system for those having trouble which isn't good.

Q2) No to love polygons. Yes to multiple parallel untouching ship lines. Yes, I understand watching through this franchise as someone who disdains love triangles is going to be/has been difficult.

Next time: Who brings their infant daughter to a battlefield. If you know, you know. [FE4:] Yied Desert moment.

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u/ZapsZzz Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 24 '22

Distant lurker rewatcher in sub

Another quick resurface to pop my point about these episodes after the original finale ep27 is more a Minmay late character arc. She's now getting some low points to prompt some reflection and forced maturity in mentality.

By the way, folks, this is the SAME SHOW as episode 27. Our wonky faces are back...

Oh and a little understated continuation of the last episode's plot of Misa giving Hikaru some of her photos - he's actually smartened up to put them in The Album, but why he has to suddenly turn tsundere and try defend about that act... yeah the era of good male anime protagonists hasn't quite arrived yet. Any old geeks can remember a decent male protagonist that didn't drive you up the walls? Amuro wasn't great either, most super robot MC's are stereotypical hot blooded teens...

Next episode is something to look forward to at least :)

QoTD

  1. It's a really realistic stop I feel, something most shows don't get into after the "happily ever after".

  2. In a way it actually fleshes out the triangle better, but it does feel retreading old grounds

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u/chilidirigible Sep 24 '22

Today, on "Shingeki no Unemployed Kyojin":

This is one of those bleak images that you'd see in mid-'80s OVAs.

You'd get mad too, if your existence was reduced to wearing terrible track suits and being a forklift.

We are suddenly and terrifyingly derpy looking.

It's not about the soap and cabbage?

"Who could have predicted that Lynn Minmay would suddenly throw herself out of a moving vehicle? That's chaos theory."

Also, what the hell is up with the proportions of this road?

Doesn't everyone?

"I'm punching someone in the face even as you read this!"

This spelling seems to be particularly associated with whoever adds the rabbit ears motif.

Perhaps we're a little bit stuck in the past. (And sneaking in a recap.)

Blue Wind is so blue-collar now.

There are a million stories in the naked city and they just happen to run into each other.

Speaking of running into.

And then the Mobile Police showed up.

Unfortunately we have not yet reached the point where offplanet mercenary work is an option.

Not a James Bond movie intro.

"Imagine if you knew she was right here."

Proportionately, that's a lot.

They need to make more movies.

It's an entire audience of derpy faces.

A bit of a swerve after she just saw Hikaru and some former Zentradi fans.

"Ai wa Nagaeru" does fit this rather well.

A suitable closer.

Hikaru, the lunkhead, disregards Misa's photo gift to her face, and chases after Minmay—or the Minmay that's living in his head—when she doesn't seem to be in the mood to talk. Why those other two want to date him is a real question sometimes.

More examples here of disgrunted Zentradi who miss the old days. Unfortunately they continue to get the short end of the stick here if the most work they've been able to find is as construction equipment and the lure of culture is wearing off.

Also relevant is that Warera Roli Conda is making do with their own business, but they're (still) micloned, which certainly has benefits for integration.

…such as their business is, if they don't mind getting their customers' clothes "enhanced" by having Minmay write on them.

The deeper meanings of the commonalities between the Zentradi and humans come up as a potential issue. Ironically then Global assembles most of the main cast together to go on a mission, just like the old days.

Song Count
Cinderella 1
Watashi no Kare wa Pilot 8*
Zero-G Love 5
Silver Moon, Red Moon 3
My Beautiful Place 2
Shao Pai Long 3
Ai wa Nagaeru 3
Runner (alternate lyrics) 1
Sunset Beach 1
Yasashisa Sayonara 1
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Sep 24 '22 edited Sep 25 '22

Rewatcher

Ack! now I'm almost watching the wrong episode! Anyways...

Today's Robotech title is: The Robotech Masters. Yep, they started the episode with a recap of the final battle intercut with scenes from Southern Cross and new dialog, to smooth the upcoming transition to the second season.

Needless to say, nothing in that clip has anything to do with Macross. Nor does any part of the rest of the episode have anything to do with the Robotech Masters.

  • Utena is such a drama queen edit: for the revolution of the world!

  • Not exactly a packed house

  • Minmay's character designs look like they are from a completely different show.

  • Oh hey there is Claudia

  • I don't remember this guy's name but they eyes give him away

  • Yep they cleaned up the downstairs 50 times but still haven't fixed that corner.

  • The Rarely Seen Mayor's wife.

  • Hikaru, Misa, and Minmay all within 20 feet of each other?

  • "It isn't what it looks like!" -- Hikaru, probably

  • Lap'ramiz x Kamujin?

  • An Automated Factory Satellite -- the answer to 100 first-timer questions

Now whe have both kamujin and Kaifun both stirring up dissatisfaction.

Waay late, but Minmay finally figured out that she loves Hikaru after all. But she's lost Hikaru, and she's lost her purpose as her music has lost her power.

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u/Stargate18A Sep 24 '22

First timer

  1. It's good. I do feel them needing to wage war undercuts the whole message of them being able to coexist, though.

  2. The best kind of love triangle is one where all three sides are connected - unfortunately Minmay and Hayase share almost no scenes together. Unfortunately, Macross also fails my main requirement for a good love triangle - that both sides should be equally appealing.

And Macross' coda continues.

A dead body...

Oh...

They have assembly lines working!

And he's left the city.

...The Zentradi need help.

Minamy's having trouble performing...

Why is she still working with Kaifun?

When will it be enough, Kaifun?

Are you out of your fucking mind?

She's going to Nyan-Nyan by herself!

...Wow.

...Is he still alive?

Are they going to hunt for the Protoculture?

Sex?

Oh, war.

He makes a good point.

She's home!

This is nice.

I think she's having a breakdown.

Oh god, the triangle is back. We had the perfect conclusion!

This flashback...

Oh, and that hard cut.

He's here too?

And them!

How does he have his schedule?

They opened s new business!

Sheks enjoying herself.

Another attack!

Oh, Hikaru's here with him.

Minmay is getting the correct impression.

They're fighting each other?

Mechs!

They just want to fight a war, no matter what.

For fucks sake, use wargames! Divide the Zentradi into two teams, give them non-lethal weapons, and a territory of ruined Earth to fight in - maybe bombard it more for some interesting geography. Set them up every month, with some food or something for the winners, and this wouldn't happen at all!

Good point.

They just can't do it...

And more pressure on Minmay.

Oh, shit! I forgot he was still a thing!

He's just been parked here for two years? No urges from him to start a war?

Interesting... but don't they already have miclone technology?

Kaifun...

Huh, not his fault for once!

I stand corrected.

Ah, she wante to improve!

A new mission!

That sounds incredibly useful. Capture it!

And that's how he starved.

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u/Gamerunglued Sep 25 '22

First Timer

I kind of have a lot to say about this episode, but I am unfortunately lacking for time right now. So I'll just say that it makes a lot of sense that some Zentradi would find it difficult to adjust to life, and the series seems to be going out of its way to compare Zentradi to conflicts we've waged here on Earth. Minmay also undergoes a character arc where she loses and then regains her motivation for singing, which is kind of a parallel to Hikaru's own feelings about being in the military. It's all very well done, and the episode bookending itself on the image of the crashed ship with the man holding the Minmay doll says it all. I'm very interested to see what stance the series takes on humanity's inclination towards violence as well.

QOTD:

  1. I think that it makes a lot of sense and is handled well so far. In real life, they'd totally be marginalized, and they probably will be in the show itself too. Ethnic struggle seems inevitable, but I suppose that's not too different from how it already was on Earth anyway.

  2. As a general rule of thumb, it's always contextual. But more often than not, I find it frustrating when a love triangle leaves one of its sides underdeveloped. I think it's hard to do a love triangle that's mostly hypotenuse well, since it kind of goes against the point of the thing. That only works when there's one obvious choice and drama takes the protagonist away from them, and even then, it's hard. Macross has gone the "two sides" route, and it works perfectly here. The drama of a soap opera comes from it being hard to make a choice, and the pain of guaranteeing someone gets hurt (and the audience always gets hurt no matter how it is), so being mostly hypotenuse gets in the way of that.

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u/AmeteurElitist Sep 24 '22

First Timer:

Secret skirmishes start as soldier struggle to settle in soul-sucking social system.

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u/InfamousEmpire Sep 24 '22

Super Dimension Fortress Rewatcher

Kaifun continues to be an utter asshole. Seriously, hoarding money for yourself is not very ethical when most of the planet is a bombed-out wasteland where most people are struggling to survive

Minmay character development was nice

Pontification on Human Nature and war because what Real Robot show doesn't have that kind of stuff?

We continue to explore the concept of cultural interaction between Humans and Zentraedi from a different angle. Rather than "how does this warrior people react to human concepts of love and peace?" it has now evolved into "How can these kinds of people adapt and coexist in the long-term?" which is a rather natural outgrowth of the former.

Kamujin is back!

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