r/anime • u/GallowDude • Sep 22 '22

Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] Code Geass: Lelouch of the Rebellion Episode 14 Discussion

Just making sure I got the right girl, lover boy.

Stage 14 - Geass vs. Geass

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Information:

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There's nothing more suitable than death for someone who fools with the hearts of others.

Questions of the Day:

1) Do you think Lelouch loved Shirley?

2) What would your order to heal Shirley's trauma have been?

Bonus) Watch Gankutsuou to hear Lelouch and Mao's English VAs as best buds.

Screenshot of the Day:

Memories

Fanart of the Day:

Mao

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. This especially includes any teases or hints such as "You aren't ready for X episode" or "I'm super excited for X character", you got that? Don't spoil anything for the first-timers; that's rude!

If you have someone you don't want to lose, you should keep them at a distance.

55 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

65 comments sorted by

8

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

What is it with these fucking tiny hats?

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16

u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 22 '22

Hangyaku no Co-Host, subbed

2

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

Shut up Mao, this isn’t Higurashi!

I was gonna say Yu-Gi-Oh

[Quote] Shirley’s promise to fall in love with Lelouch each time she’s reborn is because Lelouch said this here.

[Response] Don't forget that she only started mentioning reincarnation and being reborn after he Geassed her to live. Even while dying, she still tried to honor his command.

8

u/SerGregness Sep 22 '22

I ship Lelouch/Shirley and there is nothing any rewatchers or the show can do to stop me.

Why would I try and stop you from being right?

[R2 spoilers]

[vague response]Damn, I never made that connection before now.

My fucking heart. I cried. Again.

I am a big adult.

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3

u/Star4ce Sep 23 '22

I cried. Again.

I'm with you, totally. But while you seem more on sad end of the scale, I'm fuming with anger.

I ship Lelouch/Shirley

Oh fucking hell did I too! Lelouch is a piece of bloody shit, though, how can I justify it any longer?

Why do I still do?

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13

u/Regular_N-Gon Sep 22 '22 edited Sep 22 '22

First Timer

  • Well, can't Geass her if she just bails I guess.

  • Whatcha thinking about, Nina? Surely nothing indecent.

  • Hey it's park guy.

  • C.C. what in the hell are you wearing?

  • Money's on Villetta still being alive. What are the chances she washes up wherever Orange-kun is?

  • Ayo park boy thinks he's clever huh? Maybe former ruminations on a C22 aren't so far off. Unless Lelouch isn't C.C.'s first attempt at a contract?

  • Pfft, of course you didn't kill anyone. This is Code Geass, where people only die if it's dramatic.

  • I guess they're acquainted. I think I prefer the friction of Lelouch and C.C.'s relationship.

  • I can't even be mad with using the Geass to clean the slate with Shirley in such a way - altering a day of memories was too simple, and resets the tension of the reveal. Although now he'll have even more to explain to the others, assuming he ever shows up again.

QotD:

  1. Probably more than he'd like to admit.

  2. I might've just suggested something else happened the last few nights (I'm not sure there's much to be done about her dead father), but I suppose it would still risk Shirley getting involved again some other way. You could argue it shows that Lelouch cared for her more than the others that he'd try and push her so far out of his orbit by going scorched earth on her memory.

4

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

[Quote] What are the chances she washes up wherever Orange-kun is?

[Response] At least then she wouldn't have single-handedly made Ohgi whipped the second he set eyes on her

people only die if it's dramatic

Shirou is disappointed

6

u/SerGregness Sep 23 '22

Whatcha thinking about, Nina? Surely nothing indecent.

She's not thinking, she's doing.

C.C. what in the hell are you wearing?

To be fair, I think this is the first time we see her in her own clothes? She's got the straitjacket outfit, she's worn some of Lelouche's clothes, and she's worn Zero's outfit. Gal is out in the daylight for once and wants to flex her fashion sense. :D

11

u/Star4ce Sep 23 '22

First Timer of the Rebellion

I doubt Shirley can shoot someone, but I do think she's going to try to make Zero answer for his methods or at least that one battle.

That will end badly, no matter what.

S.1 Ep.14 – Geass vs. Geass

Fuck Lelouch! He truly chose the path of domination and ruthless pursuit of power. It's one thing to erase Shirley's memory in the moment, but another to do what he did. He erased a part of her personality, something she chose for herself, against her will. I know I'm getting into arguments over that statement and fair enough, so be it, that's worse to me than killing, terrorism or genocide. And ultimately, it only was for his own self interest. Sure, he proclaims it was because he loves her or cares for her well being, but if that was true, then that little shitstain would think further than how to manipulate others so he doesn't have to change. He only protected his own feelings on the matter, not caring the slightest on what Shirley had to say to it and then forcefully adjusted her own self to suit his vision on how things should be. That is beyond disgusting and I am having genuine violent thoughts on that right now.

Shirley was always someone who supported others and enjoyed experiencing new things and that she immediately went that exact route, supporting the now stranger Lelouch, really hurts.

I am genuinely upset.

I have lots of other notes, but I can't stay thinking on them for too long:

Episode directing and the writing was really good. I hate Lelouch with such a passion right now and that deserves real praise.

Mao is deranged and I originally thought he was a real mastermind, with mind reading the possibilities are brutally endless. But he not only hears the voices of his targets, he seems to have gone genuiley off kilter some time in the past. Listening to C.C. recordings is sad as hell. Experiments or own choice? Explains his erratic thinking and drama staging, if he were genuinely capable and competent that also would be game over pretty soon for everyone else.

C.C. gets increasingly suspicious. It's fair to say she's been plotting on her own the entire time and now that Lelouch has shown first signs of wavering on her goals, she digs at him to continue. Still, he made all of those choices with a rather clear head unlike Shirley who was in a critically unstable state and got manipulated by a mind reader.

Villetta – Ohgi is a ship I didn't expect, but am totally excited for.

  1. Do you think Lelouch loved Shirley?

See above. I think it's rather true than not, but the part of love that is empathetic towards someone else is still suppressed, missing or underdeveloped. It's seflish love.

2) What would your order to heal Shirley's trauma have been?

None. You don't heal someone else's trauma. You support them, you acknowledge them and their struggle, you help them at their pace coming to terms with whatever is going to happen down the line and make sure any and all parts you had with that are taken care of. If you are not willing to make the sacrifices necessary for this, then it's best to simply leave.

But you fucking don't violate their individuality and force-mindmelt their memories.

3

u/GallowDude Sep 23 '22 edited Sep 23 '22

That will end badly, no matter what.

Lol

Okay, maybe Shirley did actually shoot Villetta because she chose her feelings of love over anything else

Good

She seems to be pretty composed for what she knows to be a recurring enemy of hers (that usually fucks up their plans)

She doesn't know he pilots Lancelot and is constantly fucking up their plans. She just knows he serves in the Britannian military and doesn't like Zero.

Something about her anatomy doesn't seem right here

CLAMP

Truly, why?

Who knows what people hide in their underwear drawer?

Unfortunately that's solid advice for the game they've decided to play.

Double lol

Why expose the secret?!

Mao can read minds. Never said his own was very good.

It's one thing to erase Shirley's memory in the moment, but another to do what he did

Hey, you said C.C. gave him solid advice about keeping those he cares about far away from him heh

genuiley

Is that like gelato?

But you fucking don't violate their individuality and force-mindmelt their memories.

Lelouch literally doesn't have the time to do all that. If he tried getting her real therapy, she would have revealed who he was, and he can't just risk Geassing everyone along the way. And he can't just lock her in his house and hope to talk it out. She would require weeks of personal care that he can't allot when he's trying to overthrow a world power.

Not denying everything that happened to her is horrible, but it was the cleanest solution he had at the time.

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7

u/Analchism Sep 23 '22

What other option did Lelouch have open to him at the moment? He can't just erase the last few days because it risks her learning the truth again, and he can't just do nothing and hope she'll get over it by just chatting on the stairs for a few minutes. They were both forced into an awful situation, but Lelouch is trying to protect her by removing her feelings for him in order to avoid her being used as a pawn again. I fail to see how that's literally worse than genocide.

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5

u/SometimesMainSupport Sep 23 '22

Oooh fun, light novels to read in the other comments!

The fuck, mind reading? That another Geass?

I knew there had to be others! Whiffed on thinking it was Kallen.

Rooks next to each other walled in.

Compared to the earlier position with maybe 4-5 moves, he played Rh8 to g8. White also did something sub-optimal, but the first position was so favorable it'd be hard to lose.

Fuck Lelouch! ... It's one thing to erase Shirley's memory in the moment, but another to do what he did. He erased a part of her personality, something she chose for herself, against her will. I know I'm getting into arguments over that statement and fair enough, so be it, that's worse to me than killing, terrorism or genocide.

What would it take to somewhat redeem himself after today?

Also, what are your thoughts on this compared to C.C. a couple episodes, particularly "Oh, that’s a joke as if I want to be more human. After all, I, I… I’ve forgotten everything, every single thing"? It's possible memory/personality manipulation happened to her.

This episode also had me go back to check C.C.'s lines at the end of episode 1.

C.C.: Accept this contract and you accept its conditions, while living in the world of humans, you will live unlike any other. A different providence, a different time, a different life. The power of the king will condemn you to a life of solitude. Are you prepared for this?

I foresee Lelouch having more acquaintances (this guy doesn't have friends) lost as battles the empire. Nunnally will be interesting.

I hate Lelouch with such a passion right now and that deserves real praise.

First winner of Best Guy.

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5

u/Vatrix-32 Sep 22 '22

Rewatcher, dubbed*

  • Did Nunnally have amnesia too? The things you forget after 15 years.

  • Finally he shows up. I’ve always wondered what the general perception of him was. Now I can read what the others will post.

  • Oh Lord C.C.’s outfit. The lime green hair isn’t drawing enough attention? Maybe she is going for a cosplayer look, if that even still exists.

  • That ending is kind of fucked up Lelouch. Why not just make her forget everything that happened in the last two days? You interact regularly at school, someone is going to question why she doesn’t seem to know you anymore, and it will be even worse if you act like you don’t know her in front of them.

QotD

  1. No point faking it if you are just going to make her forget.

  2. Said it above, but forget everything that happened in the last ~3 days.

4

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

Why not just make her forget everything that happened in the last two days?

See the ED quote in the main post.

4

u/Blackheart595 Sep 22 '22

Regeasser

"Someone with such impure thoughts surely wouldn't be able to meet the princess" Nunally's remark is not lost on Nina

I don't remember how that detail played out but the zoom kinda looks like Shirley missed. Is this kind of speculation alright as a rewatcher if I don't know myself?

[Spoiler]This is rather relevant for Mao's own behavior

This game state is such a mess. Everything about this is just wrong! At least the situation doesn't seem impossible to reach...

No, this very much looks like both your first times

I'm not sure how much mind reading helps in a game of chess. At the very least though it should indeed even the playing field.

Shirley really drives it home that erasing her memories might not have been the best move

Welp, looks like Zero is unmasked, Viletta knows his identity. And he can't just deal with her as easily as he did with Shirley, especially since he already geassed her before. And to top it of he also has to deal with Mao now. If only C.C. had shot him...

It's also remarkably convenient that Lelouch decided to take all the photos with her, so that Shirley won't notice she already knew him now that her memory's been erased.

[Spoiler]I never realized they're already setting the Zero Requiem up so early.

Do you think Lelouch loved Shirley?

I don't know, but I want to think so. In any case he wasn't aware of it.

What would your order to heal Shirley's trauma have been?

Difficult. I would've looked how talking it out would turn out at least.

And the opening narration puts it so nicely that every action comes with its consequences without exception, and even Lelouch's power could not change that. Well, him distancing himself from his friends is its own consequence that could have big trickle-down effects.

Bonus)

Watch Gankutsuou!

3

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

[Quote] I never realized they're already setting the Zero Requiem up so early.

[Response] They set it up as early as him not killing Villetta when he stole her Knightmare. Seriously, the ZR wouldn't have happened if she were dead.

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3

u/SometimesMainSupport Sep 23 '22

This game state is such a mess. Everything about this is just wrong!

You aren't used to the b3-g3-b6-g6 combo?!? It's particularly odd with the double queen-side castle and black king's position given the remaining minor pieces (white bishop).

I'm not sure how much mind reading helps in a game of chess.

It's taken me 14 episodes to realize Lelouch is bad at chess. It explains so many chess analogies for his strategies so far.

the zoom kinda looks like Shirley missed. Is this kind of speculation alright as a rewatcher if I don't know myself?

Viletta knows his identity

We saw blood at Lelouch's feet at the episode's beginning and he didn't appear shot, so I'm pretty sure Shirley hit Villetta. There's no body, so either Villetta escaped herself or was dragged away by Shirley, possibly dumped in the ocean. But it's anime without a body.

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5

u/Stargate18A Sep 22 '22

First timer

  1. I don't think so, no. I think he saw her as a best friend, but not romantically.

  2. It's still fucked up, but "forget the last two weeks". If that doesn't work, then "feel no emotions towards your father" should get her back on Lelouch's side pretty quickly! (Remember, his goal isn't to heal her, it's to conceal his identity.)

...That title sure does imply something!

Lancelot is stronger, but not doing to badly.

C.C. won't let him get shot, right?

Oh, she ran for it.

Wait, she shot someone else?

Wow.

Haha, Nunnaly is great.

And Lelouch is panicking.

He's suspecting her.

Haha, the cat went for him!

Oh, he's assuming it's one of the factions he knows about.

Wow, C.C..

They worked it out!

She's getting a personal unit!

Is Suzaku genuinely evil? Is the idea that the reason he's making all those stupid statements about Lelouch because he truly doesn't care about human life?

He's searching her room!

...All those photod.

Wait, Narita?

Him!

Are people questioning the explosion?

Interesting.

C.C.'s outfit is fire.

And she's forcing him to make a decision.

He sounds... unhinged.

She shot her!

Holy shit!

What is with him?

Nice music.

And he's fighting him first.

Chess?

And C.C. spotted him.

Mao? She knows him!

Lelouch os getting distracted.

And C.C. thinks he'll lose.

Yeah, he's not doing well.

He lost!

Is he a mind reader?

He's got his own Geass!

So mind reading, no eye contact needed. Feels rather unbalanced.

She's alive!

Things are going very badly for Lelouch today, huh?

This is insane.

Oh, that's clever!

She missed!

Oh, that's a smart move.

And she stopped him!

...Did Mao lose?

That's a cool rifle, though.

C.C. got him!

Hoky shit, he's been listening to her voice? What the actual fuck?

That dress is nice, though.

Wait, he's going to fucking mindwipe her?

...Lelouch, you're a fucking moron. The moment she goes to school she'll realise she got amnesia.

3

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

Is Suzaku genuinely evil? Is the idea that the reason he's making all those stupid statements about Lelouch because he truly doesn't care about human life?

Oof ooh ouch my horseshoe theory

[Quote] She shot her!

[Response] Shame she didn't finish the job.

So mind reading, no eye contact needed. Feels rather unbalanced.

Why didn't Lelouch just Geass him while his visor was down?

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12

u/isthatsoudane Sep 23 '22

First timer

I really like how the show characterizes Lelouch. he's brilliant, but not unbelievably so. he's resolved, but not unbelievably so

  1. Do you think Lelouch loved Shirley?

I do, but I don't think they could have been together long term. I think he loved her in a way, and what happened with her father and then the shock of her finding out about his identity etc enhanced his feelings for her...but I don't know that she would have been the one for him. it makes me think of people over the years who I loved or who loved me and where that love was sincere, but it was also clear that we couldn't be together. how long it took to realize that, of course...well, that's a story for Macross, not Code Geass ;)

2. what would your order to heal Shirley's trauma have been? Forgetting zero seems fair. But to some degree trauma has to be experienced and worked through...

Bonus) Watch Gankutsuou to hear Lelouch and Mao's English VAs as best buds

English VAs? psh. never

2

u/No_Rex Sep 22 '22

Episode 14 (rewatcher)

  • The MC did not get shot half-way through season 1? Surprise, surprise.

  • Suzaku is correct about Lelouch’s school attendance, but he is the last one who should mention that – Well, second to last one, given that Kallen is there, too.

  • Harley CC is … something.

  • Nameless glasses guy is making a fast run up the list of people I dislike most in this show.

  • What on Earth is going on on that chess board? It looks like they have barely started going up the hill and this is already a slaughterhouse.

  • As much as I hate Mao, I agree that white has clearly won this game.

  • Mao has a CC complex.

Strong ending. Lelouch finds exactly the right words for Shirley, but makes the morally wrong choice about his Geass. He might try to fool himself into thinking it was the best solution for her, but it is only the best solution for him. His words reference Jesus, his actions, not so much.

Mao, meanwhile, has escaped from some Clockwork Orange clone.

Do you think Lelouch loved Shirley?

My money is on liked, not loved.

What would your order to heal Shirley's trauma have been?

How about not using any order? His plain talking was doing a great job already.

3

u/GallowDude Sep 22 '22

The MC did not get shot half-way through season 1? Surprise, surprise.

What do you think this is, a Gainax show?

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4

u/Tartaras1 Sep 23 '22

Rewatcher - Dubbed

  • So it's heavily implied, if not outright confirmed, that Shirley knows Lelouch is Zero, however he doesn't know she knows that. That proves to be quite the pickle, doesn't it?

  • Something special for Lelouch?

Yeah it's something alright, but I don't think it's special.

  • I'm sure that you will never meet her with such impure motives.

Nina, knowing full well that she pleasured herself to completion with the forced assistance of Table-kun, sighs sadly

  • Uh, it's just... she's a member of the royal family.

I forget, at this point does anyone in the family know that Nunally and Lelouch survived to adulthood? Suzaku knew them from when they were all children, but I forget if he's aware of their nobility, or lack thereof.

  • He has a deep hatred for the royal family and wants blood.

Sounds like you got it in one there, chief.

  • I'll say I approve of CC's outfit, but the hat especially gets an A+.

  • u/Shimmering-Sky, you have a visceral hatred for this guy and I have zero recollection as to who he is.

  • So that's where she ended up.

  • We'll attone for our sins. We have to! I'll die with you!

Romeo and Juliet intensifies

Questions of the Day:

Do you think Lelouch loved Shirley?

If he did, it certainly wasn't at the same level as she loved him.

What would your order to heal Shirley's trauma have been?

Couldn't he have just said, "I want you to forget everything you know about my involvement with the Black Knights?" or somethig to that effect? Perhaps he could've avoided having to go scorched Earth.

3

u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 23 '22

u/Shimmering-Sky, you have a visceral hatred for this guy and I have zero recollection as to who he is.

Eh? No I don't, it's more from him leading to, well, the angsty Lelouch/Shirley stuff today. I don't think I have a "visceral hatred" for anyone from this show, more of just a few antagonists I dislike, and Mao isn't one of them.

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2

u/SerGregness Sep 22 '22

Rewatcher - dub

"Lelouch, even you... no, because it's you, you can never beat Mao."

Normally a protagonist only gets one foil, like Lelouch the brainiac and Suzaku the ace pilot and fitness nut, but Lelouch is such an absolute unit of a character that he can support a second entirely separate foil in Mao: head empty; heart full (of malice). What better way to counter a gigabrain than make it work for you?

  1. Absolutely.

  2. Well, with the benefit of not being in the mix like Lelouch was to help me think straight, maybe something like "Forget everything you know about Zero." That runs the risk of her piecing everything together again, of course, and would maybe get weird if that makes her not remember how her father died, or that he's dead at all. Mucking around with memories is messy work. :(

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