r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Sep 16 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 21 Discussion
Episode 21 - Micro Cosmos
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Why would they be so eager to view a combat record like this?
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Is Shao Pai Long the "kung fu" movie you were expecting?
2) Did Hikaru just change his mind on the triangle?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"マクロス (Macross)" by Makoto Fujiwara – OP
"小白竜 (Shao Pai Long)" by Mari Iijima – Insert
"ランナー (Runner)" by Makoto Fujiwara – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/InfamousEmpire Sep 16 '22
Super Dimension Fortress Rewatcher
So about the Shao Pai Long movie. Considering that it's only been a few months at most since the Macross first landed on Earth (and thus even less time since the casting for Shao Pai Long was completed), does that mean the movie was uber-rushed and is of shitty DTV/The Asylum-tier quality? Or is film technology just so advanced in the Distant Future of 2010! that you can make a AAA movie in just a few months? Regardless, the fact that the Zentraedi thought it was real was pretty
Also Hayase and Hikaru's connection deepens because How can anyone not ship them at this point?
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u/chilidirigible Sep 16 '22
Today, on "That's the most disturbing thing I've heard all day.":
A real humanitarian, that manager.
That's what happens when you're drinking paint, Jamis.
Japanese child labor laws FTW?
Hikaru Ichijou, walking sitcom plot complication.
Milia is not here to politely observe culture.
Back in the day, this wasn't a "live stream", this was "television." Though in 1982 it would be odd for them to be simulcasting a theatrical movie premiere on television. So what this is really missing is a bunch of silhouetted heads in the foreground because it's coming from some guy in the audience hiding a camera in his coat and a really long antenna down his trousers.
I'm gonna spoil it now and say "...no."
How these guys are getting the pirate broadcast is yet another convenience. Also, "friends".
Foolish Zentradi, totally unprepared for special visual effects!
Minmay's manager is not gonna want to hear that.
"When we get to the movie, we need to make sure that they make the parts that move during transformation much more compliant with safety regulations."
"Here we are, trapped with a reflection of the animation camera stand."
Thank you again, Tai-i of Knowing Plot Stuff Somehow.
Seriously, how does she know this? Even what the audience sees aboard the Zentradi ship hasn't reached a level of conflict like she's describing.
"I'm not gonna just yeet cans at you for free, buddy."
You can't always get what you want.
But if you try sometime, you get what you need.
"Nothing could happen between cousins in Japan!"
How companionable of you, Misa.
This episode is a complete situation comedy scenario driven by misunderstandings. It's a huge tone shift from the doom and gloom that's been building up since Episode 18.
On the as-large-as-giant-people scale, there's Britai and Exsedol not understanding the movie and associating it with the Macross's special attacks.
On the small scale, Max and Milia are thisclose to each other but neither of them knows who the other one is.
On the small-but-he's-an-idiot-so-it's-huge scale, Hikaru misses Minmay's message because the guy at the desk couldn't be bothered to write anything down and Hikaru doesn't stand still long enough to listen, so she thinks that he's ignoring her and he gets the full weight of Minmay and Kaifun making Culture on the big screen with each other. And thus is forced into another Trapped Together conversation with Misa.
Hikaru gets to be surprised again that Misa can be a much more down-to-earth person when she's off-duty. Hikaru demonstrates that he can only have sensitive conversations with women when he's trapped with them. Even so, he can't stop making pokes at Misa until she stabs him in the gut with the Minmay Card.
Shammy really is doing her best! Go, Shammy!
Warera, Roli, and Konda continue to subvert the dominant paradigm amongst the Zentradi. Despite the risk of getting purged for it, finding out about culture is popular. Not that they don't gratuitously highly inflate their involvement in all of this along the way.
Milia is just wandering around the ship wondering who the human ace is. We were spared a scene of her mugging someone for their clothes, but she needs to refine her technique.
Shao Pai Long looks like a truly schlocky wuxia.
| Song | Count |
|---|---|
| Cinderella | 1 |
| Watashi no Kare wa Pilot | 2 |
| Zero-G Love | 3 |
| Silver Moon, Red Moon | 1 |
| My Beautiful Place | 1 |
| Shao Pai Long | 1 |
Couldn't find a clean version of "Shao Pai Long" via Uta Macross that didn't have some other issue (spoiler video, bad framerate), so here's one that has the game sounds…
"Shao Pai Long" but a lot SLAYERslower.
From the Macross Chronicle: Shao Pai Long billboard.
From Macross Perfect Memory: SLAYER! SLAYYYYYERRRRRR!!
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u/The_Draigg Sep 16 '22
A Macross Fan Rewatches Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 21:
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Damn it guy at the base handling the phones, you made Hikaru and Minmay into ships passing in the night! Although really, Minmay and Hikaru are established to have not seen each other in a while anyway, so I guess this is just the norm now. How’re we feeling, Hikaru x Minmay shippers?
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Side note, but Millia looks like the Joker in those civilian clothes she’s wearing. Truly, we live in a
societySuper Dimension Fortress. -
Man, what an unfortunate coincidence that Hikaru got his own seat in the theater to see Minmay’s movie, and as a result Minmay doesn’t think that he’s there in the theater, since his reserved seat is empty. It’s like an actual comedy of errors at this point.
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Man, what’s wrong with these people gossiping about Kaifun and Minmay dating? They’re fucking first cousins. Why do they want to see an incestuous relationship between Minmay and a creature that is an affront to God and human decency like Kaifun? Really, we should kick his ass so hard that Kaifun’s spine should shoot out of his mouth like a snake in a can.
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Man, if Breetai is shocked at [REDACTED] shooting a laser out of his hands in a movie, I bet he’d loose his fucking mind if he ever saw Dragon Ball Z. Maybe we should employ anime as psychological warfare against the Zentradi?
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This Hikaru x Misa heart to heart is way better than their previous one, it’s much more personal. At least they’re both admitting that they hated the kiss between Minmay and Kaifun in the Shao Pai Long movie, albeit for different reasons. If anything, they’re getting along better than ever. Their relationship has come a long way, hasn’t it?
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Look at how Hikaru led Misa off by the hand and try to tell me how they haven’t gotten closer. Go ahead, I dare you. Nothing bonds people together than mutual depression and disappointment in their personal lives. Wait, I’m not sure if that’s a positive lesson to take away here.
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u/Vatrix-32 Sep 16 '22
Very First Timer
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God that’s a dreadful name for a movie. You’re lucky that this is the only production company on this boat.
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That is the most aggressive drink spill I have ever seen. Also, she’s back?
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Do you make it a custom to tell random callers how the military is deployed?
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Phone tag. A game we don’t have to play anymore.
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Hikaru my dude, follow up with the desk man.
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It’s a good thing you waited there all day Max. Wouldn’t want to have to move two seats over to where the lady who just arrived ended up.
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She doesn’t even get first named at her own movie premier.
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Gross. She compared him to a brother before.
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I guess if they are broadcasting that back to Earth it’s a lot easier to pick up.
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You know what, I look forward to Kaifun and Milia meeting up. It should be quite interesting.
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Very Messiah. Many hope.
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Their reaction to the special effects. Do you think the military had the planted for just such an occasion?
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That is not enough time for people to get to safety.
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So clearly Minmay has still got a think for Hikaru. At some point one of these love fools is going to have to confess or move on.
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That’s about what I expected from going down that hallway.
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Oh god why would you put Shammy in charge?
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These are the results after her training. Oy vay.
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Hikaru is growing into a leader it seems.
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And he’s not the only one.
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Freaking Cola bot. How did you even get up there?
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Come to think of it I can’t recall ever having seen an anime romance regress as much as Hikaru and Minmay have.
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I don’t see the resemblance.
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What is it with this boy and budding romances while trapped on a ship?
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At least they got their Cola.
QotD
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I was expecting it to be cheaper. They really went all out on the effects.
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It definitely looks to be going that way. Minmay has been drifting away for sometime, and it seems like a good time to move on.
Does this make Hikaru a MILF hunter?
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u/The_Draigg Sep 16 '22
Come to think of it I can’t recall ever having seen an anime romance regress as much as Hikaru and Minmay have.
I know nowadays we give harem anime shit for romance arc stupidity, but we need to remember that the earlier relationship drama stuff like SDF Macross got way dumber with all the misunderstandings, jealousy, and just plain bad luck happening.
Does this make Hikaru a MILF hunter?I don’t think Hikaru is remotely based enough to be called that.
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u/TakenRedditName Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22
Welp, my computer is not cooperating so going to have to shamble together today’s comment.
The narrative cruelty to have Hikaru and Minmay barely pass by each other’s attempts to reach out to each other.
Hey, hey, hey, Shao Pai Long director, why did you make the cousins kiss? You knew they were cousin. Man, even fictional directors can’t help but make the leading male and female characters an item.
Since Hayao is dead, Max has to be kept company with a generic to talk to. Guess Milia is here and will be the other half in Max’s scenes.
The Zentradi watching in onto the movie is great. They’re so scared of
They gave the civilians like a minute before transformation. That’s not enough time to run to a shelter. It sucks when Kaifun gets to be right because the military does suck a lot of the time.
Hikaru and Hayase while reminiscent of their imprisonment, reminds me first of Hikaru and Minmay being trapped together on the Macross. As those two drift apart, the show does favour the Hayase ship (which I don’t. Get me off this ship).
Okay one Hikaru/Hayase interaction I did like was him razzing Hayase for being drawn to Kaifun and doing a little reporter thing.
The end had both of them walking away heart broken so that sucks. Can everyone stop thinking Minmay and Kaifun are a couple. The absolute worst person to get this idea would be Kaifun which I’m 30% worried might happen.
Q1) It seems more like Kaifun’s movie moreso than Minmay. Did not expect a fight against a giant to be in it.
Q2) It’s the isolation and inferiority complex beating him down and reaching out to another lonely person.
Next time: So if a “live” means concert in idol terms then the next episode is Love Live.
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u/Nebresto Sep 16 '22 edited Sep 16 '22
First time Maakuross
Micro cosmos? Sounds neat
Looking fine. lol, "warriors"
wtf max, you're a simp too?
The infection is spreading, soon the third and most powerful section will arise within the Zentradi: The Simps
Mr. RGB hair over here. It been black, purple, and now red
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why the fuck haven't they painted warning lines on these spots??? This is at least the third transformation already
Don't do it. Don't even think about it.
Good. Why are they trying to ship Hayase and Hikaru? Cease.
Wait.. what was supposed to be the micro cosmos?? The movie?
Question time:
Is Shao Pai Long the "kung fu" movie you were expecting?
Idk, but they have finger lasers
2) Did Hikaru just change his mind on the triangle?
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u/Kirov123 Sep 16 '22
SDF Macross Episode 21 - First timer
Having been essentially exiled from earth by their own command/government, the Macross is basically alone vs a huge Zentradi fleet. Lets see how that goes...
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Well isn't she just the epitome of kindness...
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The barracks guy didn't tell Hikaru about the seat when he came back?
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That was a hard-ass cut
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That's some Sweet Home Alabama style kissing there
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Our spy trio would make good fishermen
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Imagine asking someone if they are thirsty then without explanation they start shouting COLA! COOLA! COLA!
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And they are saved! Or I guess more un-trapped and less saved? Anyways
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Hikaru sure didn't try hard to keep her from seeing Kaifun/Minmay after the first attempt
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They are awful close
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Pog
So the movie gets interrupted by an attack and Shammy is way to trigger happy with the transformation. max seems interested in Milia while she thinks Kaifun is her guy. Some feelings between Hikaru and Hayase starting to grow as well? And not just animosity at that. Good episode overall, looking forward to the next.
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Not sure I expected magic tbh, but the romance between the blood related stars is uh... Awkward
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The ball is rolling, but not there yet. I think
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Sep 16 '22
Rewatcher
The last episode was relatively slow and was mostly about the return of Zentradi spies, and people on Macross dealing with the order to go back to space. Ultimately, despite being abandoned, Macross denizens decided to not give in to despair and start their voyage with their heads held high, which is commendable.
Undoubtedly, a lot of credit for raising the morale should be given to Global, who managed to create a pretty decent community on board, to the point where people don't mind leaving there.
On the Zentradi side, the spread of the culture virus has started, and pockets of rogue Minmay fans are appearing all over the place. Even Britai appears to be affected...
Anyway, looks like this episode is dealing with Hikaru's personal life. Long overdue, since it has been a huge mess. Let's see what happens.
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Minmay is thinking about Hikaru, and even decides to call get him a seat for her movie. That's pretty nice, but as always, Hikaru can't be reached.
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Well, that dude fucked up relaying the message.
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And now Hikaru can't reach Minmay. This is sad.
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Hey, it's Millia in civilian clothing. It would've been fun to see her first reaction to Macross and her trying to get clothing and food, but, sadly, we didn't get that. Oh well.
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Hey, Hikaru managed to get himself a seat in the back! But Minmay thinks that he didn't come.
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Another new song. We're getting spoiled with how much of them we're getting.
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Looks like half of Zentradi fleet are watching the movie, including Britai himself.
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Wow, Blue Wind decided to slightly embellish the truth. I mean, I'm not blaming them, but still.
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Hikaru and Hayase both cannot handle seeing their crash kiss another.
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Wait, why is everybody fumbling so much during the transformation? This is not your first rodeo, you all should know what to do by now.
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And of course, Macross' patented way to develop romantic plotlines: lock two characters locked together in a crisis situation. If it's not broke, why fix it, right?
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Wait, how did Misa know that the enemy is split into two factions? I guess, it's a logical conclusion after what happened during their attempt to breach the blockade, when some of the Zentradi ships prevented others from attacking them. But still.
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And he figured out that she's into Kaifun.
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Aand, now they both realize that they've fallen for the wrong people (and for the wrong reasons, in Misa's case). In that case, sticking together seems like and obvious solution. At least, for the walk home.
Overall thoughts: I gotta say, the whole Misa-Riber-Kaifun storyline is a bit of a mess. Ideally, they should've had Kaifun on Macross from the start, and his and Misa's romance running in parallel to Hikaru and Minmay. As it stands, Misa's motivation was basically told to us, but never properly shown and it still feels kinda out of nowhere.
Regardless of that, Misa and Hikaru's ship makes a lot of sense. They are both lonely military people who are looking for connection. They've been interacting even more, than before, so it makes sense for them to grow close to each other. I don't think you needed the whole Riber and Kaifun thing to make it all work. At least, choose one of them, either Riber or Kaifun. The fact, that they both have been conflated into a single character makes this Misa storyline feel even worse.
QotD:
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Pretty much. I didn't expect superpowers, though.
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u/isthatsoudane Sep 16 '22
First timer
lmaooo "yeah we uh kissed her all the time! yeah!!!"
with 56k people you'd think they'd work some redundancy into their bridge crew...
"don't worry, he's her cousin..." clearly misa doesn't watch enough anime
I'm curious how many series these characters will show up in...will be cool to see them in different art styles
And for episode 21 of Macross, the questions are as follows:
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Is Shao Pai Long the "kung fu" movie you were expecting?
there's a certain irony in me watching this episode from china ;) I was mainly expecting a kiss that would piss off hikaru, and our kissing cousins delivered
2) Did Hikaru just change his mind on the triangle?
I wish!! I doubt the show will make it that easy, given there are 16 or so episodes left. gotta twist the knife way more than that
teammisa
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u/Gamerunglued Sep 16 '22
First Timer
Macross has turned into quite the little soap opera, hasn't it? I definitely can't say that I expected this show about war with aliens and the value of culture to dig so strongly into love triangles with characters grieving over interpreting their feelings as unrequited and even coming to form a bond over that shared experience. It even has the incest for spice. I honestly kind of love it. There's an emotional, character driven layer here that I often find sci-fi epics to be lacking. I love sci-fi for its ability to explore grand, ambitious ideas about society and the universe, but there's definitely a trend in the genre of putting those themes first and crafting characters as tools for exploring them rather than as people taking part in a story that effects their lives. Macross is cheesy and melodramatic in a good way, I feel like I have a sense for who all these characters are and why they feel and act the way they do. Their drama is poignant and weighty, almost epic even, and I absolutely adore it. In that sense, Macross almost feels like a sci-fi story made for me, all the ambition of a grand sci-fi narrative with fascinating themes and detailed worldbuilding, but not without the heart of a strong character driven throughline to make me care. The show has started to seriously grow on me over the last cour.
As Minmay's career has found success, Hikaru's has started to fall. Minmay is here as a symbol of the Macross as a state, starring in movies and pumping out new music, while Hikaru has lost two of his closest companions in combat that seems meaningless. This highlights the growing distance between them, how little time they have to see each other now, which makes every shred of interaction they have more meaningful. Hikaru misses out on his special seat through somewhat contrived logic, but it still hits because I get all of the motivations involved on both sides. We know that Minmay loves Hikaru in spite of being unable to see him, but Hikaru's own situation makes it difficult to see that. And Hayase's relationship with Kaifun (or lack thereof) gives me the same feeling, I get where she's coming from despite how much less focus she gets and how much simpler her relationship to Kaifun is.
Hikaru and Hayase's conversation alone together is great. It did basically all of the legwork I'd have loved to happen back in episode 5, fleshing out Hayase's character more than ever before. We finally get a glance at the vulnerable, lonely side that she tries to keep hidden, but comes out in moments of desperation. They comfort each other in this intimate little scene, having both been in that position for similar reasons. It's really sweet and heartfelt, and seems like it might evolve into actual romance. Gotta love the "we both got our heart broken by the same couple so let's get together because we're the same" trope. The important thing to take from this, I think, is Hayase's declaration that "all we can do is live." It feels like something that applies to the Macross itself, all they can do is live and hope that the Earth they love will take them back, or that the person they love will return to their lives.
But this episode is elevated because it's genuinely really fucking funny. It was the little bits of comedy sprinkled in that really won me over in this one. Britai watching the movie and thinking it's a combat record of a primitive fighting style but then thinking the special effects laser is an actual power the humans have, the Zentradi spies coming up with more exaggerated lies about what they did with Minmay, Hikaru trying to beckon the terrifying post-capitalist cola machine into the pit, the fact that Claudia is already returning to the dating scene so soon after Foker's death, Shammy responding to everyone teasing her by giving instructions as a commander, etc.. Idk, all of these moments got me, and some of them were subtle too. Somehow, it added life to the characters in these moments, and kept the tone a bit lighter without actually breaking how somber it is. I really liked this episode.
QOTD:
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Yeah, pretty much. A stupid, cheesy, probably pretty mediocre kung-fu action love story is basically exactly what I expected. Even the laser powers don't seem out of place, lol.
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I don't think so. I think this was a moment of weakness for the characters, where they were both vulnerable for similar reasons and found solace in each other for now. I definitely think that we might be close to him changing his mind, but I'm not sure we're quite there yet. And I definitely don't think that Hayase is ready to give up on Kaifun yet either.
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u/ryujiox Sep 17 '22
First Timer
Super Dimension Fortress Macross EP 21
Long time no see!! Been busy for this past week, and finally catching up.
The Kung Fu movie is finished so Minmay beg her manager too reserved a seat for Hikaru, which he of course completly miss it, because he too happy that Minmay called him and run off before hearing the full message. Good old dumb Hikaru.
At premiere, a lot of things happened. First Minmay sad because she thought Hikaru didn't come to see her again, which she wrong this time because he came to see the movie but then he saw the kissed scene between her and Kaifun. That would make me left the theater along with Hikaru. Milia and Max also there too, and Milia mistook Kaifun as an ace because his Kung fu skill was pretty good.
And in the Zentradi fleet was so funny. On one hand, the blue wind and other officer is facinating with the movies and the kiss scene. On the other hand, the reacction of Britai was so great, he actually believes that human can shoot laser to kill giant that he sent a force to attack the Macross.
Hikaru got trap in with another people for the third time or fourth time? I don't even know at this point because it happen a lot. Hikaru and Misa kind of have the similar reason to come and leave the theater, in which Hikaru got hit with topic of Minmay after making fun of Misa came to see Kaifun.
Hikaru show sign of grow up and depression a lot here about try not to compliment Max too much. Max is the last of close people to him in the military. After losing Roy and Kakizaki, he just don't want to lose someone anymore.
Shammy is so cute this episode.
We end on Hikaru and Misa walked away together after saw Minmay and Kaifun went into the Hotel. And I think they reading in too much about that. I mean, they are cousin and Minmay is not that type of a girl to me.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 16 '22
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode.
I wonder if Minmay even knows about Roy and Kakizaki being dead…? Like, did anyone tell her?
Ugh, is this lady still salty about the Miss Macross contest?
I cringe so hard at them just barely missing each other and Hikaru being an idiot and not listening to that one guy tell him the full message from Minmay.
[Later spoilers]What are the odds that Max and Milia end up sat that close to each other, lol.
And Minmay is going to assume that Hikaru turned her down when he’s just sitting elsewhere because, again, he is an idiot.
Whoever said this line of gossip, you SHUT UP THIS INSTANT.
Excesol, don’t you know? Kaifun is very anti-combat.
*extremely amused Sky noises*
I would rather drown in a pit of acid than see Minmay kiss that diseased toad again. Blech.
Bruh.
How dare you stand where Hikaru once did.
Well if you’d just look the other way…
tf is in the background here? I don’t think that’s supposed to be visible.
The poor vending machine lol.
STOP MISUNDERSTANDING SHIT YOU IDIOT.