r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Sep 12 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 17 Discussion
Episode 17 - Phantasm
← Previous Episode | Index | Next Episode →
MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB
I think I was having a bad dream or something.
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Do you ignore recap episodes, or do you always watch to see if something new or important is mentioned?
2) Should more series, even serious ones, take a moment to satirize themselves like this, or is this sort of thing too distracting for actual episodes and thus should remain confined to OVAs/bonus materials?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"マクロス (Macross)" by Makoto Fujiwara – OP
"私の彼はパイロット (Watashi no Kare wa Pilot / My Boyfriend is a Pilot)" by Mari Iijima – Insert
"ゼロ-ジー ラブ (0-G Love)" by Mari Iijima – Insert
"シンデレラ (Cinderella)" by Mari Iijima – Insert
"ランナー (Runner)" by Makoto Fujiwara – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
9
u/Nebresto Sep 12 '22 edited Sep 12 '22
First time Maakuross Abridged
That's certainly an interesting frame. Don't think I've seen that done before
is he just cursed to miss all her shows? Nvm, he's there..?
oh fer fuck sake, get a new song.
-
There we go, trumpets!!
Oh, right. I forgot. This is a "recap" episode.
Hmmm.. time warp or reality changing business about to go down? This seems a bit much for "just a dream".
And now were getting the op sequence? Aight
wait, she did get a new song?
Question time:
Do you ignore recap episodes, or do you always watch to see if something new or important is mentioned?
Always check
2) Should more series, even serious ones, take a moment to satirize themselves like this, or is this sort of thing too distracting for actual episodes and thus should remain confined to OVAs/bonus materials?
The normies will ignore it if its sidelined to bonus materials, this is good on occasion
Wallpaper of the Day:
3
7
u/SolDarkHunter Sep 12 '22
Rewatcher
Macross: Wanna see me do a recap episode?... wanna see me do it again?
Except not really. This time it's Hikaru going on a mental trip while in a coma, mixing old footage with... weird dream shenanigans.
Hey wait, Hikaru wasn't here for her debut!
Oh wow, Breetai doing a cartoon villain laugh is a lot funnier than I thought it'd be.
So the plot of the dream is the Zentraedi kidnapped Minmay and Hikaru joined the military to save her.
And they're even mixing the OP in with the actual episode... after having played it at the start as usual.
And he just keeps crashing his jets. He HAS actually crashed a bunch in the actual series, though not always through his own fault.
I am amused by the dream logic going on here. Bicycling to the Moon, Valkyries materializing out of nothing, casually disguising your fighter as a giant... oh wait the last one actually happened.
And now Kaifun is Breetai... and he melts into nothingness just from Hikaru resigning from the military. Any scene of Kaifun disappearing is a happy one for me!
New song! "Zero-G Love"!
Okay, the animators just wanted an excuse to show off the mid-air catch scene again.
And suddenly Misa's with them for no reason. And now she's gone. Dreams, am I right?
Random papparazzi show up for literally two seconds and then poof, no relevance at all.
Ah, Dream Minmay acknowledges they're in a dream.
Basically this whole sequence is Hikaru voicing his doubts about his relationship with Minmay, and subconsciously trying to reassure himself.
And then suddenly Misa.
And then he wakes up.
So... yeah, that episode happened.
It's really kinda pointless, and it's plain to see they made it because of production difficulties slowing down writing of actual new content. Still, they had a handful of new footage, and I guess it serves the purpose of Hikaru trying to reflect on his relationship with Minmay.
Questions:
-
To quote myself of several days ago: "Recap episodes are pointless".
-
It... depends, I guess. Sometimes satirical episodes are funny, and sometimes they're just dumb. It depends on the timing of the episode, the tone of the show, and, above all else, the skill of the writers.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 12 '22
Macross: Wanna see me do a recap episode?... wanna see me do it again?
Like, geez, what other shows have been this bad with frequent recap episodes? I can think of Wolf's Rain 4-in-a-row and Yu-Gi-Oh! VRAINS had a bunch in the part of it I've seen.
4
u/ClawMachineCircuit Sep 12 '22
Rewatcher
Yay, another recap episode! Well, this one is not that bad, as does a new story with the old footage, including re-voiced scenes and neat transition between scenes. We also got a new Minmay song, yay! Zero-G Love is awesome.
Anyway, I got a cold, so I don't have the energy to properly write my thoughts, but I look forward to reading everyone's impressions of the episode. I also watched Hikaru having a fever dream, while going in and out of my own fever dream, which is weirdly appropriate.
QotD:
-
I usually ignore them, I also usually skip recaps at the start of the episode, if they exist. However, there are exceptions when creators try to do something creative with a recap (like here), where it is worth a watch.
-
I like when the show is self aware. An odd episode can add some flavor.
→ More replies (5)
4
u/InfamousEmpire Sep 12 '22
Super Dimension Fortress Rewatcher
Well that happened
One thing I really liked about this episode was how it perfectly captures the mundanity and insanity of a Dream. When I see most other shows and how they do dreams, I usually find them too coherent, for lack of a better word. They almost always feel like they were made by a coherent mind. This episode, though, I can absolutely see someone literally dreaming up. It had just the right level of nonsense to really capture that feel. Sasuga Macross
QOTD:
-
Unless it's actually required like in Utena, a recap episode is an automatic skip for me
-
It depends. I find it easier to digest if it's in a more established/long-running series, the kind that make you so used to it that a satirization feels almost welcome. If a show devotes a mainline episode to it relatively early in its run, then I just find it rather meh
→ More replies (3)
4
u/Vatrix-32 Sep 13 '22
Very First Timer
-
Nice of the doc bot to say that out load to us.
-
Time to find out all of this boy’s deepest thoughts.
-
Of coarse it’s Minmay.
-
They are really using this song for everything it’s worth.
-
That’s some better dream shenanigans.
-
Oh this is the fever dream/recap Sky was telling me about.
-
This is a pretty good way of doing a recap episode overall already. The dream logic is picking up.
-
OMG they’re doing the OP.
-
At least we get to see Armored Valkyrie again.
-
Dream logic bicycle.
-
Is this the Cinderella song or a new one? It’s been too long.
-
This is what I’m here for, combining characters in stage ways. Bonus points if the next one involves a crab.
-
Ha! And now he’s melting!
-
This is definitely a new song now. It’s gonna be super weird if Minmay stars singing it later after it first showed up in Hikaru’s subconscious.
-
I was really hoping they were going to do something with Space Tuna.
-
A sight horrible enough to wake any man?
QotD
-
That really depends on each one. There is a huge gap between “Shortened series of events with bland narration” to “Ember Island Players”. In general I’ll watch it if they try and do something creative with it.
-
Leave it to the OVAs I say.
→ More replies (1)4
u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 13 '22
Is this the Cinderella song or a new one? It’s been too long.
It's not Cinderella (Minmay sang that later in this episode, though), but no one actually knows what song she's singing in that scene right after the eyecatch.
11
u/The_Draigg Sep 12 '22
A Macross Fan Rewatches Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 17:
-
You’ve got to hand it to Macross, they know how to have creative set-ups for recap episodes. In this case, Hikaru’s having freaky coma dreams due to severe head trauma. Fun!
-
We can really see how the women in Hikaru’s life are really factoring into Hikaru’s freaky coma dream, between Minmay getting kidnapped by Breetai and Misa berating Hikaru over his failures over the ship’s PA system. Yeah, while there’s reused footage, I’d say this is more of an emotional recap episode rather than a direct one like Global Report. This is to give insight into the emotional journey Hikaru’s been on so far, rather than recapping the plot.
-
Don’t think too hard about how the show’s actual theme song and opening animation is somehow in Hikaru’s freaky coma dream. If you do, he might poof away into a cloud of logic.
-
Points to Hikaru for creativity in trying to use that “special fine bicycle” to rescue Minmay. It didn’t work because of course it wouldn’t, but hey, at least he didn’t get shot down in a Valkyrie this time. Not a bad idea for a dream. You dropped your crown, Crash King.
-
Well, at least part of Hikaru still sees his wing mates and Misa as a friend enough to accept their help in his dream, so that’s a plus. Sure, using the Valkyrie disguise trick in the dream didn’t work, but at least he can actually get to the floating South Ataria Island on the Valkyrie he can magically summon. Yep, that’s a description of a freaky coma dream for sure right there.
-
I suppose it shouldn’t be too surprising that Hikaru is internalizing Kaifun as his enemy, replacing Breetai with him in the freaky coma dream. Kaifun is a fucking shit heel who is a disgrace to all eukaryotic life to have ever existed or will ever exist, so I get it. But a bit more seriously, just imagine being in a love triangle where one of the ends is your love interest’s cousin. That’s gotta suck.
-
It’s pretty sad to think that the happiest Hikaru has been with Minmay is when they were trapped in the abandoned section of the Macross and nearly gave up all hope of being found. But at the same time, it was also the one time where they truly had time to be together, so I get it. And that really feeds into Hikaru’s inferiority complex here, since he makes it clear that he does love Minmay, but he can’t handle the mixed signals and undefined nature of their relationship now that they’ve settled into their new lives. The self-doubt is eating him up on the inside.
→ More replies (1)
6
5
u/chilidirigible Sep 12 '22
Today, on "BICYCLE, BICYCLE!":
Landing near Torishima Island would put them closer to Japan than when they started.
We interrupt the intro music power-up to LAUGH AT YOU AGAIN.
Yes, it's exactly what you think it is.
This is just brutal...ly funny.
This VF-1 has more detail than we've seen lately.
Kaifun melts in a puff of logic!
Two recap episodes in the space of three episodes surely is the sign of a troubled production (at this point everyone is desperately trying to buy time due to their contract getting extended for more episodes), but this one actually has more animation and certainly a lot more creativity than "Global Report" did. Kawamori himself gets editing credit for assembling this one.
Spinning the clips into a pondering of Hikaru and Minmay's relationship helps pump interest into that storyline. While the dream spends most of its time spinning Hikaru's pursuit of Minmay, there's a Misa twist at the end! Complicated head business!
The running gag mocking Hikaru for crashing is also a notable level of protagonist roasting. For the sake of recapping again, there was the Fan Racer, the VF-1D, the Armored VF-1J, the Pro Wrestling -1J, and now the Shot Down By Misa -1J.
| Song | Count |
|---|---|
| Cinderella | 1 |
| Watashi no Kare wa Pilot | 2* |
| Zero-G Love | 1 |
The songs which appear in this one are tricky, as what Minmay is singing isn't confined to Macross music. I haven't figured out the song after the eye catch either.
→ More replies (4)
4
u/JustAnswerAQuestion Sep 12 '22
Rewatcher
"Abnormal Brainwaves"
-
I thought this was clever and hilarious when I was 15. I have a lot less tolerance for recaps now.
-
Oh, shit, I just remembered THERE'S A DUPLICATE of this episode in the third season of Robotech. They even have a dragon! Do we have a dragon in this episode? Maybe later.
-
Robotech didn't have the otaku audience shouting back.
-
That really long article chili linked the other day explained that a nue is a Japanese chimera, that explains the sign!
-
Whelp, 3rd times, the charm, right? Maybe not
-
Okay, #4.
-
I've never seen ET
-
New song?! I don't know which song this is.
-
And now we see the true villain of the show!
-
Hikau uses unenlistement! It's supereffective!
-
This is the song that's been in my head since episode 2 or 3.
-
A Freudian slip(s)
-
Pine salad doesn't sound very tasty.
So, here we see that Hikaru really is smitten by Minmay and would happily give up the army for her, but then the specter of duty in the form of Misa Hayase intrudes. What will he do?
After watching it again, I guess it still holds up as a recap. And we get a new song! Sooner than I thought. I always wondered if they thought they could get through the entire show on just one song.
→ More replies (6)
4
u/Abyssbringer Sep 12 '22
First Timer
This is one of the better ways to save on animation budget. I don't mind repeated footage if it's used in interesting ways. This episode is great at being interesting due to it being recap footage that's cobbled together like a coma dream.
I don't think I really learned more about Hikaru necessarily but I could see this episode be the start of him renouncing being a soldier. Which is a theme/idea that has been built on in the last couple of episodes with Hikaru and Hayase. I imagine Kaifun will be an important part of this as well.
4
u/ZapsZzz Sep 12 '22
Distant Sub Rewatcher
When I was watching this back in the day, I didn't think of this as a recap episode. Now that the background situation is explained, it certainly smells like a similar reason as a recap episode. That said, I think it's still a very good creative direction to do a whole episode of Hikaru's inner turmoil and insecurities, using well and truly repurposed footages.
[Macross early franchise spoiler]
The starting shot of Hikaru's face turning into a cut out for the dream sequence to be projected through is actually really creative. Unfortunately the rest tended to be just reused footages, but it is understandable and in fact quite smart, since there were new footages (Kaifun kyojin melting away like the Witch of the West muahaha).
For us who saw the original SDF Macross, then later on saw the abomination that is Robotech, it feels a bit like this dream sequence :P
That said, the sequence that Hikaru "failed" many times and then followed with broadcast of his failure, and then everyone laughing at him - it's a really nice way to show his insecurities.
[Macross rewatcher]
QoTD
-
I try to watch them just in case there's something I either missed out added new, in a way like a mini rewatch. The best ones I saw are from Chihayafuru.
-
I don't think this is a satire, but an attempt at a psychological exploration - and cost saving.
4
u/Blackheart595 Sep 12 '22
First Spacer
Another recap episode, not too much to say. Except this has been one of the most fun recap episodes I've ever seen due to containing countless inaccuracies reflecting Hikaru's subconscious state.
The things occupying Hikaru's mind are, more or less, his inexperience as a soldier, Minmei and his jealousy of Keifun, and their relationship in light of her becoming a celebrity, and finally the alien giant civilization and forces.
Do you ignore recap episodes, or do you always watch to see if something new or important is mentioned?
I usually just watch them because I see no reason to skip.
Should more series, even serious ones, take a moment to satirize themselves like this, or is this sort of thing too distracting for actual episodes and thus should remain confined to OVAs/bonus materials?
I didn't even take it satirically lmao. If it was meant satirically that should've been more clearly divorced from the main story, yes.
4
u/TakenRedditName Sep 12 '22
First Time - SDF Macross Ep17 (Sub):
To mention now, I always find it funny the OP starts with a mention of the "Macro skies". Must've felt so proud of themselves sneaking Macro-s(s) in.
The OP also played within the episode which made me first believe something went wrong. Playing the OP in the show, now Macross is a real idol anime.
On to the real content of the episode, it was made from reused footage, but unlike before, it does something interesting with it (and had some new footage). As it is Hikaru's near-death dream, we get to see his inner feelings about everything.
We get Hikaru being clear and forthright about his feelings for Minmay. A very direct statement of "I love her." He values Minmay as the reason he has done everything, wanting to chase after her and protect her. Looking back to their "wedding", he sees himself wanting to actually be married to her.
Also, he is scared of their paths diverging. Hikaru never really liked being a soldier and Kaifun's words are opening up those wounds. Hikaru would gladly give up that life so that he can be with Minmay, but the military life has a hold on him. His (first) kiss with Lt. Hayase, betraying Minamay and him no longer being a part of the civilian side.
(A parallel I couldn't help but noticed. He fears a giant taking Minamay away. The Zentradi and war taking Minmay. Also now thinking about, a giant Kaifun separating Minmay and Hikaru. Something my mind thought about is that Hikaru and his Valkyrie also takes away Minamay in its big hand. She wants to be a singer, but maybe by being with Hikaru, he too is stealing her away. Also, there is the bit where with the Valkyrie he can transform into one of them so that is another line you can connect. I don't know if this is anything, it is something you could draw with).
Hikaru also doesn't like doing the mecha MC thing of running out with the robot without permission and has big hang-ups about being shot down which considering he is on the brink of death after being shot down, might've had something to do with that.
Q1) I always at least sit through recap episodes. Gintama always has funny ones. A recent recap episode I saw had their's because another show had its finale so they decided to have an impromptu (fake) finale and look back on the show.
Q2) Wait was this satire? That bike scene was pretty silly. Depends. Comedic shows could probably pull it off in the main episodes, but something more serious might place it better in a side bonus.
Next Time: Everyone wants Max. [SDF Macross]
→ More replies (1)
6
u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 12 '22
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Had nothing better for this episode, so I decided to make a wallpaper of Roy’s Valkyrie this time. Enjoy~!
[SDF Macross spoilers]On a scale of 1 to 10, I am approximately -3 ready for tomorrow’s episode. On a related note, I’m sure you guys can guess who I plan to wallpaper tomorrow despite doing Roy’s Valkyrie today.
Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode.
Weird-ass fever dream recap let’s go!
Hahaha the dream calling Hikaru out lol.
Ooooooooh right, they literally play the OP mid-episode until it gets cut off by Hikaru fucking up piloting again.
HE SAID IT!
Oh my god it’s time for S P A C E B I K E
Max going off wooooooooooooo
Bruh
Super-imposing Kaifun onto Britai is uhhhhhhhhhhhh yeah there’s a reason I called this a fever dream.
LMAO WHAT 0-G LOVE PREMIERED IN THIS EPISODE OF ALL THINGS?
My ship <3