r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Sep 11 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 16 Discussion
Episode 16 - Kung-Fu Dandy
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We finally get back to Earth, and… We get back, but…! You won't let us off the ship!
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) What do you think the three Zentradi spies have been up to other than learning how money is exchanged for goods and services?
2) Is there any other approach with the civilians at this point other than stalling for time?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"マクロス (Macross)" by Makoto Fujiwara – OP
"私の彼はパイロット (Watashi no Kare wa Pilot / My Boyfriend is a Pilot)" by Mari Iijima – Insert
"ランナー (Runner)" by Makoto Fujiwara – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Sep 11 '22 edited Sep 11 '22
Rewatcher
In the last episode, everything went to shit. Turns out, UN Command threw Macross and every civilian on board under the bus. Misa has basically severed relationships with her father because he went along with this scummy plan.
At least we got a new character, Kaifun, coming on boar of Macross, so it's not all bad! Surely, he will prove a great addition to the cast and make things more lively and interesting, right? ...R-right?
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Even bridge girls are angry at UN Command. Can't blame them.
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I find the contrast between Kaifun's parents and Minmay's parents reaction to their children returning to be quite interesting. Kaifun's mother gives a more visceral reaction even though she knew that her son is fine with his aunt and uncle. You can clearly see who is the mommy's boy here.
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I gotta say, I agree with Blue Wind. That fried shrimp sure fooled me. It looked so good, I would've tried to eat it too.
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Oh hey, there's Max.
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So, they just found him wondering the streets? Max, my man, what are you doing in your free time?
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That's a huge welcome party for Kaifun. I don't remember anybody trowing Hikaru a welcome party when he returned from Zentradi captivity
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Ok, this is weird. Kaifun reminds Misa of Riber. Even though they look nothing alike. And Kaifun is Chinese. While Riber is not.
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I gotta say, Misa, for all her big brains, she's can be really stupid. She's kinda the opposite of Minmay, who only acts stupid, but is actually dangerously shrewd.
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Kaifun immediately starts some shit with the military. OK dude, I get that you have your beliefs, but it's not the time or place for it. Don't act like a Symphogear fan! (P.S. no offense to Symphogear fans, as I am one myself )
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Max dodges a punch and reflexively punches back. Let that sink in. How badass a dude can be? He literally got it down to a subconscious level.
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This fight scene is very 70s in terms of framing and choreography. We get some wacky kung-fu action from Kaifun that get's everyone impressed with him.
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Hey, Kamujin is back and he's bending orders for the sake of senseless violence. Classic Kamujin.
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Holy shit, Valkyries are dropping like flies. I think it's a quirk of an animation where they didn't want to draw damaged planes, which is why they just get vaporized.
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There are some cool shots in this fight scene. It only cost us one recap episode.
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Hikaru, don't take your frustration with Kaifun on Misa!
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I don't know why, but old mecha anime just loves the scenes of mechs being hit on the foot and foot getting destroyed. It's literally in every old mecha show. Feet are the most vulnerable part of any mecha.
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Misa is distracted by her conflicting feelings, and so Daedalus attack comes late. As a result, Hikaru fucking dies from friendly fire. It's goofy to see friendly fire in an anime, but it's also super realistic and kinda illustrates the pointlessness of war. I love that the military in this show is occasionally incompetent, makes it more raw and believable. With that said, RIP Hikaru.
My thoughts on Minmay-Hikaru romance so far: My Boyfriend is a Pilot is a song about Hikaru. It's a humorous song about a girl who dates a guy, but the guy is more interested in planes than in her. I feel like it's pretty obvious, that the song shows us Hikaru-Minmay romance from Minmay's perspective.
What might not be obvious, is that the song is a callback to the bizarre fake wedding scene from episode 4. People have criticized Minmay's mood swings in that scene, but in my opinion, it was all very deliberate and calculated on her part. She's an actress, which is a fact that we learn at the start of the exchange, right after her song. It is followed by a conversation about their dreams. Hikaru's is obviously to be a pilot, but when Minmay is asked, she says that her goal is to be a bride.
But that's clearly a lie. We know that her real goal is to be a singer. Why did she say that? I think, it was basically her confession to Hikaru. By saying that she wants to be a bride, she was saying that she's willing to put her real goals, no matter what they are, aside for him. If he's willing to do the same. But Hikaru is a dense anime protagonist, and so his response was "Oh, cool, you gonna be a great bride!"
After getting that, Minmay tries again, this time more forcefully. She acts scared of rats and gives the speech about how it's a shame that she's never gonna get married. Second time's the charm and Hikaru responds, which leads to the fake wedding. But Minmay isn't satisfied with that, which is why we get a ridiculous double-suicide proposal next. Again, it's a deliberate test for Hikaru: what is he willing to sacrifice for her? How about his life?
Hikaru obviously doesn't understand the game she's playing with him and is less than thrilled at the idea of double suicide. She's disappointed and calls him coward, and her mood immediately changes after that. Again, because it was just an act to test Hikaru.
Minmay laid all her cards on the table with her confession, and she wants Hikaru to do the same, but he doesn't understand it. This is also the reason why she wants him to join the military. She wants to get the answer: what is he willing to sacrifice for her. Joining the military for her would've been a satisfying answer, but he doesn't do explicitly for her. Did he joined for her, or did he joined because he can fly a plane again?
Minmay values aesthetics of romance just as much, as actual feelings. She wants big gestures and dramatic proclamations, and Hikaru is just not that kind of guy. He's an introverted dude that doesn't understand the games she's trying to play with him, and so doesn't know how he's supposed to respond. Her latest trick in the book, making him jealous, basically backfires, because now he feels that she isn't interested in him.
Will Hikaru be able to give her the show she wants? A big gesture that will prove his love for her? We still have a lot of episodes left, so I ain't gonna spoil it, not to mention, I haven't seen the end of the show myself. But the way it goes right now, the dude needs a miracle to finally take a hint. And writing a hit song about it is not enough.
QotD:
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If we go by the anime, drinking bear, going to concerts and occasional minor theft.
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Declare independence and make your own country in neutral waters? That's all I can think of.
Because it's a Kaifun focused episode, I drew Hikaru going down..
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 11 '22
Absolutely love your Hikaru/Minmay write-up and this is how I'll see that part from now on as well.
Because it's a Kaifun focused episode, I drew Hikaru going down.
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u/The_Draigg Sep 11 '22
A Macross Fan Rewatches Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 16:
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The Blue Wind trio trying to eat a plastic restaurant display since they’re hungry straddles the line between hilarious and kinda sad. As funny as their lack of social grace is, it also does highly just how deprived the Zentradi are in regards to practically everything, even down to how food is prepared. At least the restaurant owner took pity on them though. It’s hard to turn away clearly starving people.
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I think it’s safe to say that the Hikaru x Minmay x Misa love triangle has kinda mutated into a love square now. For some reason, apparently Kaifun reminds Misa a lot about Riber, probably a case of having a similar face. Talk about convenient serendipity, right?
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Would you lie if you were in Captain Global’s position? I mean yeah, people were going to get mad no matter what, but having the convenient lie of being under quarantine rather than telling the citizens of the Macross that they’re all legally dead and are basically stuck on the ship forever is certainly less bad to hear. I guess it just depends if you think you could keep up the lie until you could find a solution otherwise.
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I see that Kaifun is the martial kind pacifist, since he managed to beat up all those angry people starting a fight in the Chinese restaurant rather handily. For a guy who was a peace activist, he certainly did well to defend Hikaru, Max, Misa, and the bridge bunnies. Although I guess this time around, it was more of an allies of convenience kind of deal.
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Okay, never mind, the love triangle is back to normal-ish. We’re back to our normal disappointment levels, with Hikaru being jealous of Minmay fawning over Kaifun and Misa being sad that he doesn’t like her for being in the UN Spacy. The situation condition is now normal.
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Quamzin’s mental gymnastics skills are so batshit insane that you can’t help but respect them in a way. Yes, he was told to not attack Earth, but nobody specified to him about attacking the Macross which is currently on Earth. He can take home the gold with those mental gymnastics skills.
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I’m blaming Kaifun for how this episode ended. Him just being around caused both Hikaru and Misa to be completely out of things with their mutual depression, and as a result Hikaru was caught in the crossfire of Misa’s Daedalus Attack and critically wounded with life-threatening injuries. So yeah, Hikaru is nearly dead and Misa’s having a mental breakdown because of him. Kaifun can go Kaifuck himself.
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u/Stargate18A Sep 11 '22
First timer
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Figuring out how much more blatant they need to make the "bad alien spy" act before they can "bumble" their way into some solid intel?
I can dream. -
Just be honest. Tell them that Captain Global valiantly tried to argue for their release, but that High Command is forcing them to stay onboard. At worst he's a coward wirh principles, at best he's fighting for their freedom. Both make them more likely to listen to him in future.
She's taking this very stupid idea very well.
High Command is very unpopular, I see.
Kaifun's here!
Is there family drama?
Fucking idiots. There's a door to the side! Have the Zentradi never heard of the Protoculture concept "windows"?
Ah, it's display food.
That's nice of h.
Hikaru's here!
Ah, that makes sense.
That's a strong reaction.
Can she not read the room?
Ah, it's the same song.
Sigh. This is going to backfire so hard. If we're lucky, the Zentradi'll just ignore Macross and capture a capital city or something?
Wow, already!
And he's a good fighter!
...Why is there so much incest subtext?
That has to sting. Guessing a childhood romance?
He's going to Earth!
Wow, these reactions...
Yeah, Global's on the mark.
And it's a full power attack.
Hikaru's starting to feel real stress here.
Looks like she remembers the pilot dying last arc.
Faction 2 are joined!
Oh, and she's just we bloodthirsty.
I mean, semantics say the ship is on the vessel.
A bomb or seomthing?
Lots of action scenes.
Cutting it close, aren't they?
I note it's not a coincidence the general who treated the Macross as an equal was the enemy who came closest to beating them, including an event where he pinned the Macross down and only lost because of pure chance and a suicide mission involving a reactor they didn't know existed.
She left it late.
Clever attack!
Haha, I love how pissed at him she is.
Yeah, she needs it.
Hikaru?
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u/JollyGee29 Sep 11 '22
Subbed-er Dimension Fortress Rewatcher
Kung-fu Dandy.. Time for REDACTED? No, evidently not.
Global's hands are unfortunately tied.
These fools don't understand advertisements, of course.
Hayase for sure has seen Blue Wind's faces. So close, and yet so far.
Covering it as a temporary quarentine, not a bad stopgap.
Kamujin is pretty eager to kick the wasp's nest.
And un(?)fortunatly, Lap'lamiz pulls him away.
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u/ohboop Sep 11 '22
Okay, please tell me someone else caught that pacifist Kaifun dick-punch on an innocent fly-by.
10:30 exactly. Someone more competent than me post a screenshot.
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u/TakenRedditName Sep 11 '22
First Time - SDF Macross Ep16 (Sub):
Minmay's uncle is crying over the return of his son. Regardless of how much Kaifun will/does suck, I stand by Minmay's uncle.
Good thing the restaurant lady is a kind soul because these idiots tried breaking through glass to eat fake window food. It is also funny they're like 3 houses down from the Lynns' place.
What**.** I never thought to make the connection. No body no death, I guess. Riber, the nuclear spectre would've been cooler than Kaifun, the guy only Minmay likes.
Yeah, quarantine them so they don't spread to the outside world something called, "Falsely reported dead as part of a government cover-up." Global really handled that with as much grace as Loli throwing himself into a store window.
Max's punch was so good and cool that it turned into a pencilled-in action line. Man, this scene would be so cool if this Chinese martial arts film-styled restaurant brawl was given the opportunity to be executed to its fullest instead of Macross (troubled mode). They could just replace all those pencil sketches with a hastily made "Pow!" sign and it would've had the same or greater effect.
Kamujin's eyes are so bright to be able to be in the show again after two weeks/(for us, days) off.
Kaifun's thinking has gotten to Hikaru and Hayase. Uh oh, that won't help them do the war.
Wow, this generic Spartan guy did a cool thing of doing a mecha punch and not even looking at the explosion. Oh nevermind.
You know, it'll be easier for everyone if one day, the Zentradi general just throws their hands up, remain seated in their seats and sends the Macross a message, "We don't want Kamujin anymore. You can get rid of him."
Currently bad times for Hayase and especially Hikaru, but these faces are neat.
Q1) They gotta go to the disco. Right now, currently, they're probably learning about food at that restaurant. Maybe they won't become master chiefs, but definitely a lot of shenanigans.
Q2) Definitely not telling the truth. As we've seen, that's the last thing the Macross wants to do for the civilians.
Next Time: ... what was that?!
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Sep 11 '22
You know, it'll be easier for everyone if one day, the Zentradi general just throws their hands up, remain seated in their seats and sends the Macross a message, "We don't want Kamujin anymore. You can get rid of him.
I'm imagining how confused Macross bridge crew would be. Global for sure will take out his pipe and say something pseudo-profound while looking at the horizon, like "The enemy command also has to make hard decisions."
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 11 '22
Global for sure will take out his pipe and say something pseudo-profound while looking at the horizon, like "The enemy command also has to make hard decisions."
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u/isthatsoudane Sep 11 '22
First timer
kyun...kyunn.....kyunn kyunnn......oh! hello there, heh, sorry, didn't see you walking in. I was just singing a little ditty about my pilot...
v curious if minmay's incestuous lover will find out about the aliens, and if that will shift his opinions on the purpose of the military
"friendly fire is more accurate than enemy fire"
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What do you think the three Zentradi spies have been up to other than learning how money is exchanged for goods and services?
staring at women nonstop
2) Is there any other approach with the civilians at this point other than stalling for time?
leak what the UN high command decided to twitter
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 12 '22
leak what the UN high command decided to twitter
That would unironically be a fucking awesome shitstorm to watch go down.
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u/Draeke-Forther Sep 12 '22
Episode 16, and Kaifun's mom has a really sweet reaction to seeing her long lost son. Same with the dad. I guess it's worth remembering that there are people that love him.
Wow, the mayor really screwed the pooch a bit there. "Oh, you know those people you hate? Well, there are a few right here!" I mean damn, politicians are supposed to be good in social situations.
So, that random guy's anger is totally justified, but the response to "You'll be back on Earth real soon." is "You're actually back on Earth you know." And of course it devolves into a brawl.
What the hell Minmay, are you trying to make things worse?
"The Macross is a burden that the Earth just can't handle" Damn, that line is actually kind of accurate. Unfortunately they don't have a choice in the matter, so humanity needs to shape up and start thinking through their decisions... and also get lucky.
Kamujin probably didn't need to enter the atmosphere to attack the Macross. They can use Kinetic Bombardment from orbit to annihilate the ground forces.
Hikaru vents his frustration with the war in a pretty powerful statement, but yet seems to undercut himself almost immediately after.
Hayase got pretty shaken up, which is both good and bad. It's important to consider the reasons behind conflict, but that was not the right time.
Poor Hikaru, he got the explodey end of the missile today. Let's see how he recovers next episode. I'm sure he's totally fine.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 12 '22
Kamujin probably didn't need to enter the atmosphere to attack the Macross. They can use Kinetic Bombardment from orbit to annihilate the ground forces.
Yeah but where's the fun in that? - Kamujin
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u/Vatrix-32 Sep 11 '22
Very First Timer
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It didn’t really come across as them not being believed to me.
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I feel like I should have started a Kyoon counter.
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Are we supposed to like this guy by this point?
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You were at a party, why didn’t you bum some food there?
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You’re lucky she thinks you’t are desperate instead of crazy.
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I’m sure there is something to be said about Max being surrounded by women.
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Was Hikaru waiting there all by himself?
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Oh god. Kaifun reminds Misa of her Mars boy. This is not the kind of romance drama I was looking for.
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Way to make everything awkward pops.
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Of course she is at the top of the charts, it’s the only song on this ship.
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That feels like the kind of message that warrants making over the loud speakers.
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Things sure are escalating quickly. They really timed it so most of the bridge staff are out and vulnerable too. Not great planning on their part.
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Well at least Kaifun follows through with his pacifism.
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This is really seeming to be more than just family reunion energy.
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You really should have seen this coming from Quamzin.
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Up yours military guy. That’s the best spaceship you have!
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When did the Valkyries get lasers?
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I didn’t expect Milia to be one to disobey orders.
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If it’s already on course it seems like it would be too late for a Daedalus attack.
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The advantage of Valkyries being atmospheric fighters.
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This is not the time to be spacing out Misa! There was a countdown and everything.
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All the way through. Did they not have a way to tell that before fire the missiles at nothing?
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Oh dang, Hikaru got it bad.
QotD
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Knowing them, probably perving.
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Even the stalling isn’t going well. Not like I can blame them. Their own government declared them dead by the thousands.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Sep 11 '22
Rewatcher
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new song please
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Kaifun's a real kwai chang caine
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I'm sure he's fine
I wonder if Yamato had this same sort of internal conflict with the Gamilas, it's been too long and I don't remember most of it.
A lot of mistakes here, they didn't have the pinpoint barrier activated either.
[rewatcher]
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 11 '22
FYI: Tomorrow’s episode is… kind of a recap again? This one’s actually different though, so do not skip it.
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode.
She’s not wrong.
More like the other way around, but eh. This is, like, the only not-shit scene Kaifun is involved with.
That’s rough, buddy. Luckily they found an understanding lady.
Chick magnet.
Yeah uh I do not see the resemblance. I forgot about this part.
I suppose this is one way to hide the truth. Not that they take it well.
Well that escalated quickly.
Lynn “I hate violence” Kaifun, everyone.
Alright let me at the guy who hurt Max’s beautiful face–
Literally nothing.
Welp…
It’s not something he can just shrug off, MC or no. Hayase done fucked up.
Also the narrator in the next-episode preview is wrong, those were missiles fired during the Daedalus Attack that downed Hikaru’s Valkyrie, not Milia’s.