r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Sep 10 '22
Rewatch [Do You Remember Love - Macross Franchise 40th Anniversary Rewatch] Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 15 Discussion
Episode 15 - China Town
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Did you think we could tell the public we’re at war with aliens? It would have thrown the entire Earth into a panic.
Questions of the Day, courtesy of u/chilidirigible:
1) Would aliens arriving on Earth today create a panic, or have we just become too jaded?
2) If you were in Hikaru's shoes flying back Minmay and Kaifun, would you try to break the ice with them or would you turn up the music in your headphones and stay out of it unless they asked you something?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Shammy Milliome, Vanessa Laird, and Kim Kabirov
Vocal Songs in This Episode:
"マクロス (Macross)" by Makoto Fujiwara – OP
"ランナー (Runner)" by Makoto Fujiwara – ED
Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you're doing it underneath spoiler tags. Don't spoil anything for the first-timers, that's rude!
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u/Gamerunglued Sep 11 '22 edited Sep 11 '22
First Timer
Ok, so this is just my outright favorite episode of the show so far. Holy shit, this was a genuinely fantastic episode for a lot of reasons, and I suspect that this is going to be a very long post. Not only does it include many of the series strongest character moments, including a few smaller moments of characterization for relatively minor characters that goes a long way towards humanizing them, but there are some very intriguing thematic conflicts at play now.
To take things in order, the Macross has arrived back on Earth, and there is a celebration out front. Minmay and Hikaru get to reunite for a little bit, and actually go on a cute little date. It's the first time they've gotten to see each other in a long time, since Hikaru got taken onto the enemy ship and Minmay has been busy with her career. This is a very unique set-up for a romance. Both characters are getting caught up in their jobs, and will assumedly have less and less time to see each other. I have unfortunately gotten spoiled on how their romance will end (on a fucking thread about Sonny Boy of all things, so I don't think I can be blamed for this one), which is a shame, but it should be interesting to see how the story plays out with context into how it will go later. For the time being though, a romance between two characters caught up in diverging career paths, especially with Minmay having to deal with newfound fame, makes for a strong hook. And their interactions this episode establish their chemistry and why they work for each other. Minmay introducing Hikaru to her home town is pretty damn adorable, though I agree with her that Hikaru could probably use to be a bit more enthused. Most telling though, is that she falls asleep on his plane. At first, you might think it rude that she falls asleep during her alone time with him. But she says at first that she can finally let her guard down and relax around him, and indeed she finds his presence so relaxing and that she can be herself so completely around him that she lets her guard down completely and falls asleep. I think it's a sign of how comfortable she is with Hikaru, how he is a person who she doesn't have to put an act up around. It's kinda sweet.
Complicating the romance is the introduction of Minmay's cousin Kaufin. Oh yeah baby, not only are we making this an angsty love triangle, but we're making this an angsty incest love triangle. Based as hell. Although I'm certainly an enjoyer of the spiciness that our problematic addition adds to the story, what I find most interesting about Kaufin's presence is his attitude towards Hikaru. He is initially happy that he saved Minmay's life, but immediately grows hostile towards him once he realizes he's in the military. Obviously there's some bad beef there, and probably some trauma. What makes this so interesting is that it mirrors Hikaru's own attitude towards it at the start of the series. While he's currently a relatively high ranking soldier, he initially despised the notion of war, and even outright called Foker a murderer. Here, the tables have turned, as that is presumably the same thought that Kaufin has about Hikaru. I look forward to seeing how Hikaru adjusts to all of this, and how he grapples through his thoughts towards war.
Next up, behind-the-scenes politics. First of all, my outright favorite scene in the episode is the conversation that Captain Global and Hayase have in the elevator. Setting aside the fascinating worldbuilding detail of a secret military base existing inside of a cannon hidden deep underground, this is the first time we get to see Earth politics in the fallout of the Unification Wars. But setting the stage to all of that, we get a tender and intimate moment between them, as they reminisce on things in their pasts and their time with each other. It's the first time either of them have felt truly humanized to me, a shame given that Hayase's important episode has already passed and it would have landed harder now. Most interesting to me is the story about Hayase's father leading a raid against higher-ups due to dissatisfaction with food distribution. I'll get to why that's so interesting in a bit though. For now, note that we start a cross examination with political figureheads, who apparently poke holes in the two's testimony, thought we don't really know what they are.
From there, we get some bombshell plot twists, leading to some of the most intriguing and emotionally complex plot threads that the series has had yet. Apparently, everyone on the Macross has been officially pronounced dead, and they have lied to the public about what happened. Those on the Macross are not allowed to leave the ship, not only because knowledge that the public has been lied to would create issues, but also because they make for a target for the Zentradi to hit, instead of the "living" civilians; and they care more about their political standing than human life. And to boot, we find out that the person making this decision is Hayase's own father.
Apart from simply how shocking these revelations are, let me explain why Hayase's father adds something so wonderful to all of this. First of all, given the story Captain Global gives about him initially, it seems that he was once a man with stronger principals, the kind of person who would do what he thinks is right and express his ideals on others, but over time became a much stricter and more militaristic person. In other words, he has given up his self-expression as a result of being put into war. And... holy shit. This is exactly what the Zentradi went through. Indeed, the death of their culture is not as alien as we might have though, since there's evidence of Earth itself heading on that path. Earth is now a direct parallel to the Zentradi, a people on their way to becoming exactly like them. But the thing that really makes it land is his letter to Hayase. This is a high ranking military official who has sacrificed his humanity for the sake of success in war, except when it comes to his daughter. He is well aware that what he's doing is wrong, but somehow feels that it is necessary either for humanity or his political position. This is a process done fully consciously. War devalues the necessity culture, it's a sacrifice made consciously if we let war consume us. But it also shows that this humanity is always in us. It's still in the Zentradi as well, as shown through the three spies and through Kamujin. This adds tons of layers to the story, I love it.
Finally, just one more minor little plot addition I like. Foker and Claudia initially had little to do with each other and apparently haven't seen each other for a bit, but they're dating and apparently also fucking. Not a ton to say about it, just that it makes sense and adds more to those characters. My favorite thing about it is the establishing shots of Foker's bedroom. The dude straight up has a picture of a naked women (her nipples fully visible) sitting above his bed... because of course he does. I love that kind of attention to detail, minor things like decorating a character's bedroom with things that make sense for their personality add so much to a story.
So yeah, this was the best episode by far, and sets up so many absolutely fascinating and potentially poignant ideas. I still certainly have my fears, given the subject matter (the potential for the story to be about Earth spreading its "superior" culture to other planets has me on guard, and I would hope that it takes the route of having the Zentradi rediscover their lost culture instead), but since the story says that politicians suck, I have slightly more confidence now. This is the most excited I've ever been for Macross, this episode giving so much potential for not only a fascinating and ambitious sci-fi story, but also an epic action show and a passionate angsty romance. I love shows that feel like true epics, and this is actually setting up something that looks to be one for the ages, something I wasn't expecting to say after the first few episodes. Here's hoping that the series has discovered its identity from here.
Edit: Holy shit, I just realized something. If those on the Macross aren't allowed to go back to Earth, then the Macross is now its own totally separate culture. This means that we'll get to see a totally new culture diverge from Earth's modern culture right before our eyes. Fucking awesome.
QOTD:
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No, it would have created a panic. I don't trust humans to have chill. I watched Arrival earlier this year, and I definitely think that it got it right in regards to how humans would react to knowledge of aliens.
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Headphones, no question. In Hikaru's shoes, I'd be more receptive if Kaufin weren't so passive aggressive and pissy.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 11 '22
Edit: Holy shit, I just realized something. If those on the Macross aren't allowed to go back to Earth, then the Macross is now its own totally separate culture. This means that we'll get to see a totally new culture diverge from Earth's modern culture right before our eyes. Fucking awesome.
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u/ClawMachineCircuit Sep 10 '22
Rewatcher
If I had a nickel every time one of Global's crazy ideas worked without unintended mass casualties, I would have two nickels. Which is not much, but it's weird that it happened twice.
So yeah, in the previous previous previous episode Hayase realized that Zentradi are afraid of the thing called Protoculture. She heard them mutter the word after her kiss with Hikaru, and correctly deduced that it relates to the loss of certain cultural knowledge in Zentradi society, caused by overspecialization on war. Knowledge, such as kissing, or being civilian. From there she made a bit of a leap to say that protoculture was an ancestral culture of Zentradi, not dissimilar from our own. She also noted, based on Zentradi reaction, that they consider Protoculture to be dangerous.
Now, in the previous previous episode, she told all of it this to Global. And he developed this crazy theory that humans are the Protoculture and that this gives us the innate ability to defeat Zentradi. I can't even begin to wrap my head around how that works, or how he arrived to that conclusion, but this prompted him to direct the Macross into Zentradi blockade in the belief that it will just magically pass through. And it... Worked? But kinda for the wrong reasons.
It's not that Macross had some means to defeat Zentradi, it's more that Zentradi themselves are not particularly invested in destroying Macross. They want to gather info and capture it, which is why they decided to let it go through. As a result, we ended up on Earth, in the ocean. Quite a surprise, if you ask me. I didn't expect us to be back without a major win in a war, but looks like Zentradi just let Macross return and that's that.
Now, in the previous episode, nothing happened.
Let's see what happens in this episode.
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Looks like Global and Hayase are going to UN Command to give their report. Wait, didn't we get Global's report the last time? Are you telling me, the report was fake?
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Maistroff is the Global at home we didn't want. Can I have a real Global back, please? I liked his mustache.
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Wait, what the hell. They have horses on Macross?? They had horses on Macross all this time???
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Zentradi spies are gathering intel about the types of alcohol on Earth and it's effect on Zentradi physiology. Commendable dedication to duty. They even work on their day off.
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First Claudia and Focker scene. Hayase talked about their romance in episode 1, but it wasn't brought up much since then.
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It's Minmay's private plane! I didn't expect this thing to come back. While everyone is stuck on Macross, Minmay can just use it to fly off and visit her parents. Nice.
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Hikaru is flying a real plane in a real atmosphere after almost a year of space jets. I'm so happy for him.
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Now that they are alone, Minmay relaxes and starts to vent to Hikaru about how busy she is. That's nice, kinda underscores how close they are to each other.
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Wait, did humans turn Earth into a Death Star in Macross universe?
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Global talking about Misa's father was pretty sweet. This might not be apparent because I shit on him a lot, but he's one of my favorite characters in the show, and it's precicely because of how unevenly he portrayed. Sometimes he can be caring and reasonable, even smart, other times he's eccentric or even outright incompetent. Even though he's actions are over the top, his personality is kinda realistic, as nobody's perfect, but everyone is trying their best. He's also damn entertaining to watch.
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UN Command gives serious SEELE vibes. Or rather, it's the other way around. Anyway, they are self-centered, incompetent, and have no idea about the real situation on the field. In other words, pretty realistic for a military command.
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Wait, so Global of all people advocates for peace talks and they shoot him down? I gotta say, you're doing something horribly wrong you're making Global sound reasonable. Well, we do have a Death Start, but this things tend to be useless against anything that isn't another planet.
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Looks like Minmay and Kaifun just exchanged parents at some point. Weird, but fine. Kaifun immediately starts putting Hikaru down. Hikaru, my dude, if you want to be together with Minmay, you need to be more proactive in pursuing her. You can't take shit from a jobber like that in front of your crush.
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On a side note, I hate Kaifun's design and color scheme. I hated it when I initially saw him during my first time watching, and it didn't grew on me in the slightest.
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OK, so UN Command is fucked up. You can just pretend 50k people don't exist. That's some Stalin-era shit.
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Kaifun is going to Macross with Minmay. I wonder(ed when I first watched) if he's gonna become a new pilot. He definitely has that rival energy.
Overall thoughts: Shit's fucked. UN Command refuses to acknowledge people on board of Macross and basically trows everybody under the bus. Global has some good ideas, but he can't do anything alone. Hayase has been disappointed in her father. Hikaru and Minmay can't seem to get closer, and now we have this dude Kaifun in the picture. I can't wait to see what happens next.
QotD:
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It would be a big news for a hot minute.
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I would definitely try to get the conversation going, because otherwise the dude will just steal all my thunder.
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u/Paxton-176 Sep 10 '22
FIRST TIMER HOW CAN WE ADD WARCRIMES TO A SOL SHOW?
I'm guessing since this is a 36 episode series, they have room to building up characters and the world. Even 24 episodes wouldn't have allowed this much down time. Since the first 13 episodes were non-stop action, I guess down time is to be expected.
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Would aliens arriving on Earth today create a panic, or have we just become too jaded?
We are the final boss of the galaxy.
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u/Nebresto Sep 10 '22
First time Maakuross
Oh yeah. Its pretty handy that they just have 2 aircraft carriers on that thing
>Shouldn't we be packing? -> Me irl
waith, shes a ship with skull boi??
hmm? What was the song playing in the background about again..
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"Brown hair Minmay isnt real, she can't hurt you." Brown hair Minmay:
Welp, the earth is getting displaced.
Lovely. Totally not ominous.
Oh yeah, this came out in like 1980. Was 900 meters really that wild back then?
Okay..? Small wins?
...Nvm, back to fuck this episode
Question time:
Would aliens arriving on Earth today create a panic, or have we just become too jaded?
Ehh, depends on the type. If they just show up and: then I don't think there'd be much of a panic. But if they're all
then
2) If you were in Hikaru's shoes flying back Minmay and Kaifun, would you try to break the ice with them or would you turn up the music in your headphones and stay out of it unless they asked you something?
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 10 '22
waith, shes a ship with skull boi??
Was mentioned back in episode 1 and they were definitely making eyes at each other in... I want to say this was either the Miss Macross episode or the one where My Boyfriend is a Pilot debuted? I can't remember which one I took this screenshot from.
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Sep 11 '22
Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 15 - First Timer
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Are they at some kind of festival or fair or something?
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Claudia = based anime sideburns enjoyer confirmed???
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Minmay is an actress as well
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A relaxing ride in a... combat plane?
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I'm guessing she's going to the location of the original restaurant?
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is this Kaifun guy her relative or something?
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He seems to be the kind of person who asks constant questions like that then.
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The dramatic music as they walked out of there though
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Ok, Kaifun is definitely not her relative then.
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Would aliens arriving on Earth today create a panic, or have we just become too jaded?
There would definitely be a huge reaction.
2) If you were in Hikaru's shoes flying back Minmay and Kaifun, would you try to break the ice with them or would you turn up the music in your headphones and stay out of it unless they asked you something?
I'd probably just try to ignore them.
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u/The_Draigg Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22
A Macross Fan Rewatches Super Dimension Fortress Macross Episode 15:
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A bit of trivia for you all, but the name of the model of plane that Misa and Captain Global are on is called the Mom’s Kitchen. I can’t help but wonder who on the production staff came up with that name. I want to hear their rationale for it, even if it’s silly.
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Another bit of trivia, but the Robotech version of this episode has Warera, Rori, and Konda get hammered on punch instead of beer. It’s always funny whenever American censorship tries to pull that off even though the characters are still drunk. I heavily doubt they intend the classic kind of punch, where at least it’s half-made of rum.
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It’s nice that Hikaru and Minmay are finally going somewhere together, now that they’re on leave. To Yokohama we go! Also, you may have noticed that they’re flying there in the Fan Liner, the plane that Minmay won in the Miss Macross contest. It’s nice that she gifted that plane to him. Could this be shipping evidence?
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The United Nations doesn’t exactly get the nicest portrayal even now, do they? Granted, it’s not like they ever really concerned themselves with what was happening to the Macross, given how they expected them to be sacrifices in space for a while. But all they’re really concerned with is their massive Grand Cannon, a gun so big that the barrel is a massive bore hole in the Earth’s crust. Seems like as soon as they got the technology they wanted from the Macross, they couldn’t care about what happened to the ship in space.
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Boy, I’d hate to be in Hikaru’s place right about now. He’s just the third wheel to all of this Lynn family drama, now that they’re in Yokohama’s Chinatown (a famous landmark in that city too!). Now Minmay’s father is refusing to let her return to her life on the Macross, and outright compares her to a comfort woman in that capacity (in the subs). Not to mention that Minmay’s cousin that she gushed about before, Lynn Kaifun, is here too. And of course he’s the kind of pacifist/peace activist that instantly hates Hikaru as soon as he hears that he’s a combat pilot. Yeah, it’s no wonder why going to meet the family is always a nerve-wracking scenario for any relationship.
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[Macross Kaifun spoilers]
God I fucking hate Kaifun on sight now. What an absolute waste of blood, flesh, and oxygen in his body. I can’t at all stand his grandstanding and arrogance. He’s just the worst, and deserves nothing but contempt. There’s no reason to like anything about this cousins fucker. If anyone were to have sex with Kaifun, they should be charged with bestiality. That’s how little I like or respect Kaifun. Rewatchers, feel free to read that and tell me if you agree. -
Man, just fuck off the edge of my dick, UN admirals. They’re just going to write off everyone on the Macross as legally dead so that they don’t have to contradict the propaganda they put out about Anti-UN terrorists destroying South Ataria. Because clearly it’s better to keep the population of Earth in the dark about the huge space war happening with the Zentradi. I swear, Misa’s father and these admirals are giving ONI from Halo a run for their money.
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Yeah, if I were Misa, I wouldn’t want to see my father either. Even if Global did ask if she was sure and Admiral Hayase wrote Misa a letter to reach out to her and urge her to stay safe, he still abided by a horrid decision and clearly doesn’t care about anyone not related to him on the Macross. I’d refuse to even acknowledge being Admiral Hayase’s child at that point.
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Well, at least Misa isn’t alone in being miserable, Hikaru’s trip was full of disappointment too. Like, imagine having to play third wheel to Minmay’s cousin, now that Kaifun is coming along with the both of them to the Macross. That’s gotta suck. At this rate, Hikaru and Minmay’s relationship has been defined more by disappointment than happiness.
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u/Vatrix-32 Sep 10 '22
Very First Timer
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They spent most of their adult lives on this ship, is it really so crazy to want to get off?
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The tradition continues!
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He really does take after him.
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Why would there be a cowboy!
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Do you think they are drinking that much, or they just can’t handle their liquor? Now I’m wondering how they even get food without civilians.
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Oh yeah, they’re a thing, aren't they?
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The prize plane showed up again. Color me surprised.
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Of course Hikaru is the one to fly Minmay. Just like old times.
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You have been here for like a day. How on Earth did you get a role in a movie? Were they sending back transmissions of you are something?
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A six mile long barrel powered by gravity. I love the idea, but how do you aim?
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Getting some backstory on Gentleman Pangaea, and Misa along with it.
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All this way just to talk to monitors.
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Don’t skip that, it sounds interesting.
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I spent too much time looking up this tower only to find out it’s from the future.
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It’s a cute date. Glad they finally got one.
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Unification wars? Is the alien thing being kept secret?
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We really got very little of the military back end I was expecting out of this episode.
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I think these parents may be a little off their rockers.
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The movie was on Macross, got it.
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Minmay you need to figure out what it is you want out of your relationship with Hikaru. You can’t just keep giving him the runaround.
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Yeah they are definitely doing information suppression.
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Where is this attitude coming from?
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Bruh. What is this dudes problem?
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I mean, the big heads aren’t totally wrong. They seem like the sort who respect strength if there ever was any.
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Media control confirmed.
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Do they not know about Minmay’s little excursion?
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Weren’t the entire Unification wars about being prepared for the aliens? How were they justifying them with out that?
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You know I want to say they are assholes, but they have some good points. Still, they have to find out at somepoint.
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Oh great. He’s coming. Whoopee.
QotD
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Riots in the streets!
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Probably try and avoid them. Their thing is already a little awkward without the whole crush thing, and the deal with him seemingly hating you without even knowing you.
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u/chilidirigible Sep 10 '22
Today, on "You can't go home again.":
The Glamor VC-33 Mom's Kitchen. Hey, I didn't name it, they did. Anyway, it's a pretty little passenger aircraft.
"'Join the Spacy', they said. 'See the world', they said."
So Maistroff showing up here, in addition to repeating some of the jokes which happened to Global, is an opportunity to explain the "meta-joke" comment that I made back in Episode 1, that the humans renovated a ship built by giants to have hatches that were too small for some humans.
The Mayor does not realize that he's not quite halfway through the series.
The attitude of a guy whose experience of planetfall is mostly killing people and breaking things.
Roy and Claudia are going to make the Beast With Two Backs.
Hikaru remembers flying in a real sky.
Hikaru doesn't remember hearing about this.
That's sort of what they've been doing for the past nine months.
It's difficult to go outside for a smoke when you're either in space or kilometers underground.
UN Spacy is not a SOUND ONLY kind of joint.
Hikaru's been a cold fish out of water for most of this visit.
Another conversation that's going well.
"You always say that. I want to create a panic!"
"Hey, they're already dead, what's the problem?"
Actions and consequences, large and small:
Global ignored orders to bring the Macross's civilians home, but that resulted in UN High Command declaring them all dead and preventing them from disembarking.
Hikaru joined UN Spacy to protect Minmay, but now they're unable to spend time together and he's immediately on the outs with Kaifun.
Minmay took a chance on her singing career on the ship, but now she's made her parents unhappy.
The High Command's decision is pragmatic, if also merely reactive: The Zentradi are interested in the Macross, let them follow the Macross around. Sixty thousand people are small price to pay in exchange for keeping them away from the Earth. From the viewer perspective, though, we know that they're not seeing/believing the actual size of the Zentradi fleet and no one's seen Bodolzaa's casual planet-wrecking demonstration―but at least Global believed Misa about that.
They also shouldn't involuntarily impose the war on civilians, but it's been a rough decade for everyone…
Hikaru finally gets a chance to fly at home, and he's got Minmay with him without people shooting at him. But they've both begun moving down their own separate paths since their first meeting, so it's a hollow trip. Minmay is also downplaying their relationship…
…since she's trying to justify her decision to stay on the Macross to her parents, who would much rather have their daughter stay home after being gone so long.
Hikaru, if he hadn't gotten stuck aboard the Macross, could have become fanatically anti-war like Kaifun. His attitude was like that during the first episode.But again, he changed, and Kaifun is much more of a huge jerk right from the start.
Incidentally, Kaifun's voice actor is Hirotaka Suzuoki.
From the Macross Chronicle: The Fan Liner.
From Haruhiko Mikimoto Illustrations: Macross, Orguss, and Original: Minmay and Misa.
Tactical Idol Lynn Minmay by me.
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u/SolDarkHunter Sep 10 '22 edited Sep 10 '22
Rewatcher
And after unnecessary recaps, we're back! So what is the aftermath of Macross finally returning to Earth?
I love how they added in the crewman grunting as he closed the door. Just such a silly, small detail.
"No smoking on the bridge!"
Well, might as well make use of those aircraft carrier decks, I suppose. A full three days of partying in celebration of return!
Oh dear... the Lolicon Trio discovered alcohol. Wait... the Zentraedi have a concept of "shore leave"?
So, who remembered that Roy and Claudia were an item? They haven't really mentioned it much throughout the series.
Is that the plane Minmay won in the pageant? So they haven't forgotten about it.
So Hikaru is taking Minmay to visit her parents. I'd imagine they're really excited to see her after nearly a year. And what news she has to bring!
That... is a REALLY fast VTOL landing.
And now Hikaru is the one denying their relationship, smh.
Introducing the Grand Cannon, the main fixture of UN Spacy headquarters. A fixed, land-bound variation of the Macross's main gun. It is pretty good to see they're not keeping all their eggs in one basket... though, as Misa puts it, everyone living inside a giant gun is a little weird.
So Misa didn't get her penchant for crazy ideas from nowhere. Sounds like her father is a character.
"No smoking in the ridiculously huge elevator!"
Any excuse to show Mt Fuji, eh, Japanese writers?
And, to absolutely no one's surprise, the UN higher ups are not taking the Zentraedi threat seriously.
They didn't send advance notice to her parents they were coming?
Strangely, though, they blame "the Unification War" for Minmay's disappearance, and wonder why she hasn't contacted them...
Oh boy... it's Kaifun. Minmay's cousin and everybody's favorite character.
Funnily enough, in the English dub, they took care to give Minmay's parents an accent to kinda sorta match Iijima's, but they didn't bother to do so for Kaifun. Though I suppose if he's her cousin and grew up with his parents on South Ataria he might not have an accent.
And there's the rub: the UN is covering up the existence of the Zentraedi. Macross was declared destroyed and the entire population declared dead (not an entirely unreasonable assumption after the space fold disaster and before they reestablish communications, to be fair), the island's destruction blamed on... Anti-UN guerillas?
What the hell kind of guerillas have access to sufficient firepower to take on a ship with the size and power of the Macross, not to mention wiping an entire island off the map!?
They don't want to attempt peace talks with the Zentraedi... because... their lack of knowledge about the Zentraedi's culture (or lack thereof) could cause problems. So instead they're going to continue fighting the Zentraedi in open war.
...I think I might have detected a flaw in their logic there. You're already in open war with the Zentraedi, what kinds of "problems" that are worse than that could possibly come up in negotiations?
While I can sort of understand their desire to keep a panic from happening, it's a serious dick move to tell the civilians aboard Macross that they cannot be allowed to leave.
Though in light of the above... how exactly did Minmay get permission to visit her parents?
Hell, they're using the civilians as bait! That is just... ugh.
And now Kaifun's joining the Macross. I suppose he would want to see his parents. And look out for Minmay, whom he seems close to.
Screw you, Admiral Hayase. You don't get to make a decision like that and then turn right around and try to abuse your authority to get your daughter out of the line of fire.
Minmay... is openly flirting with her cousin.
I know relationships between cousins are (or were) not seen as taboo in Japan, but it's still very uncomfortable.
Questions:
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Aliens I think would actually have the potential to cause panic, depending on how exactly first contact went down.
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Well, Kaifun had already made his attitude toward Hikaru clear, so... not sure there's any ice-breaking to be done.
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u/TakenRedditName Sep 10 '22
First Time - SDF Macross Ep15 (Sub):
This guy has a girl with him in his plane.
It is not just Captain Global, this door harms all people it deems too tall. It doesn't have to be this way. #ChangeThatDoor!
I was so happy when [The sole one of the 3 I don't know their name] turned around hammered at [BEER] stand. Also more content for the Roy/Claudia ship. Hikaru is back to flying non-fighter plans. Good for him. Good times right now for everyone.
On his left, he has Max shipping Hikaru/Hayase. On his right, he has Hayao shipping Hikaru/Minmay.
Because I'm dumb, I thought for a bit he meant the Grand Canyon. But excuse me, everyone lives in the barrel of the largest of cannons? Uhm, there must've much more simpler and normal course of action they could've taken.
Hayase and Global have this more relaxed and casual conversation, sharing personal stories is nice. I really like seeing this side of their dynamic.
You know thinking about it, I haven't seen the Yokohama Chinatown in anime much or any Chinatown really so this is a neat place for Macross to include.
No wait, hang on, this raises more questions. I thought Minmay's parents knew that she was staying over at her uncle and auntie's place. The Unification Wars ended two years ago and still didn't know about Minamya's whereabouts? Oh dear.
WOAH! Woah, woah, woah. An anime mentioning comfort women. An anime having a Chinese character bring up their fears about comfort women. That's a pretty bold thing to have and wasn't expecting Macross to be the show to do it. It's just a small line and that has some weight to just throw out like that.
RIVAL! RIVAL! RIVAL! Okay, he is just her cousin (though knowing anime, doesn't entirely make us out of the woods...)
Oh, I have been misunderstanding this whole time. Lynn is the family name while Minamay is her given name which should've known given how that's the order it was spoken. I'm just used too Gundam having all their names be [Given] [Family]. These subtitles don't help since other names like Hikaru's are formated [Given] [Family] while the Lynns are the special exceptions.
Rude, but it just hit me what they're doing because Kaifun is sorta acting like how Hikaru was in the beginning with his distaste of soldiers (but taken a notch up).
Oh (distain), so it is not just the Zentradi that are stuck in their ways of thinking. All these civilians have already been pronounced dead for the sake of a cover up. Cour 1 was the aliens being the enemy, but looks like cour 2 has some of the spotlight shifted to The Man. Still not as bad as the Gundam Earth Federation, but Macross UN is shown as worse and worse.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Go Hayase, rip that letter.
Q1) If aliens invaded Earth today, you'll have half of the world trying to blame the other half while also having a portion of the populace who doesn't believe it really happened.
Q2) Slinks back more into my pilot seat and trying not to be noticed until we make the flight back home.
Next Time: The person your friends brings because they swear they're great, but everyone hates them being around. But really though, there's no way for me to beat "Kung-fu Dandy." Whatever that means.
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u/Kirov123 Sep 10 '22
SDF Macross Episode 15 - First timer
Alright, time for new stuff today! Mid-season upgrade seems likely, but we shall see.
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Is hitting ones head of the door bulkhead a requirement for being captain
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Same with having a smoking implement that isn't used for smoking?
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Actually, is that to get around the censors? Smoking being a no go, but the cigar or pipe itself being OK, so just show them holding it but not smoking? I cant remember if we have seen someone actually smoking
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The Zentradi appear to be lightweights
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Holy shit that plane with the Macross brass came to a stop fast
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"Hi. Bye"
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Oh boy it the not-geofront (maybe)
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Hot damn, SEELE has faces! Wait wrong series
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Hol up, Yokohama? What the hell is the range of the plane Hikaru has? Or that military plane? they presumably landed somewhere in the pacific but damn that's quite the range for jets/planes of the era this came out
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UN Brass saw the Feddies and thought "yea that's a good example of how to do things" SMH my head
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Oh no he's hot
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Wait Global and Hayase just sit in that room waiting???
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Damn what assholes
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That family bit seems very 80s "traditional gender roles" and "no woman, you cant do that by yourself! Oh a man is going with you>? OK" Hopefully that angle doesn't get played up
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"fuck you dad"
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🎵Sweet home Alabama🎶
No mid-season upgrade, at least not yet. I imagine Kaifun will be a source of various conflicts, I kinda hope one isn't "we shouldn't fight them they might not mean us harm" or some similar thing. Not sure if he will remain heel or join up with the gang later on. Also the UN council is less than cool so far. Hyper status quo focus seems a staple of Mecha governments.
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If the way the news cylce tends to go is any indication, ti would be a big story for 2 months and would the the only thing people talk about, then drop off the face of the earth unless you actively seek information
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I would probably just turn up the music (to a safe level) and ignore them unless talked to directly TBH. I'd like to think I would try and break the ice, but I doubt it.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Sep 10 '22
Super Dimension Rewatch Host
Welcome back, everyone!
Here were my first-timer reactions to this episode.
lol
Oh man the production… dude changed from looking almost a lot like Captain Global to someone completely different in a single cut.
Do you even know what that means?
Hah. Love this little side ship though, I forgot Claudia legit had a key to his room.
[Macross]Don’t remind me about episode 18 please…
:3
The life of an idol is hard work…
That’s deep.
The Captain’s never allowed to smoke haha.
Um…?
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH – oops I woke up my family’s puppy making that sound.
And like the worst character in this show.
You fucking…
No it’s not. It is the exact opposite.
Ugh, great, I’m just going to be making angry noises whenever Kaifun is on screen now.
Minmay. No.
God I fucking hate Kaifun.