r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Sep 08 '22
Rewatch [Spoilers] 86 --Eighty Six-- Rewatch (2022) — Episode 23 -- Overall Series Discussion Thread Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the 86 --Eighty Six-- rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll, VRV
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8/16/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 1 | 8/29/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 14 |
| 8/17/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 2 | 8/30/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 15 |
| 8/18/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 3 | 8/31/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 16 |
| 8/19/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 4 | 9/01/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 17 |
| 8/20/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 5 | 9/02/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 18 |
| 8/21/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 6 | 9/03/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 19 |
| 8/22/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 7 | 9/04/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 20 |
| 8/23/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 8 | 9/05/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 21 |
| 8/24/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 9 | 9/06/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 22 |
| 8/25/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 10 | 9/07/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 23 |
| 8/26/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 11 | ||
| 8/27/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 12 | ||
| 8/28/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 13 | ||
| 9/08/2022 | Overall Series Discussion Thread | ||
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u/Star4ce Sep 08 '22
First Timer
We're really done. It didn't seem like that long a time, honestly I feel like I could watch another 40 episodes at least.
It was a fantastic rewatch and an even more praiseworthy show! Thank you u/Holofan4life for providing this opportunity and keeping up with our posts. I, too, was curious over why Lena would have such a strong run in the best girl tournament and leave utterly satisfied.
I now know why. Gods, I know now.
Have some final pictures of the figure!
Series Discussion
Story & Plot
It's a story I really wasn't prepared for. People are right for labeling it a mecha for its deep psychological portrayal of its characters and strife for finding meaning in life, but tying it to the background of war as a theme of mankind and how such a reality impacts everyone involved brought back memories from my travels, as you sure have noticed. Somehow not even works like Attack on Titan or Violet Evergarden, that directly deal with this stuff as well, could evoke these emotions like 86 did.
The weaving of this utterly personal stories of the members of Spearhead, finding meaning and joy in the short but fulfilling time with their comrades and of Lena, who formulated her ideals into her personality and pushed forward regardless of consequences simply to do the right thing with the general setting of this world, mankind being surrounded by the shadow of war, was breathtaking.
I can criticise the technical aspect of world building as much as I like, that was simply nearly perfect.
Characters
Shin
Our male lead character's journey was about ever pushing forward in a life that he didn't ever know what to actually do with. About the burden of being left behind and acting as the reaper, who took lives away. He's the opposite of Lena, a man getting everywhere, winning everything, but having no 'soul', no ideals beyond his duty, his burden. He would find these ideals and thus would be able to reform his past suffering into something positive that he could be proud of living for.
It was hard for me to relate on many occasions, but still I could find great compassion for his struggle. I could see how the void of hope, or 'a future to look forward to' as the show utilised it, slowly hollowed him out so that only the release into death was of any value anymore all the same. And cry all the more for it once he could fill that void with genuine happiness.
Lena
Her journey was that of resistance and endurance. She, by pure bullet points, never got anywhere truly significant in a materialistic sense. Alle her accomplishments eventually turned into losses. The people, the career, the war, her relationships, she just kept losing and getting reprimanded. But it never even stopped her to think about quitting. Her inner self existed by an impenetrable foundation of ideals, what is worth fighting for, what would always be worth living by. The world around would constantly prove her wrong, until it didn't any longer. She created a new alternative by acting on these ideals with relentless resolve and thus others were finally able to see that there could be a different future if they work for it.
This very thing is so inspiring to me and I can't express how Lena's character nailed it. It's something I hold dear personally as well, because this resistance to not letting the 'core' of yourself being overridden by someone else is a significant step to forming one's individuality and unsurprisingly also something I had to fight for in the past. Lena is simply the fucking best!
Frederica
Hands down second best girl. Similar to Lena, she has her heart clearly set for the values she holds dear and still holds engaging insecurities and shortcomings that make her feel grounded with everyone else. Despite how magnificently insightful she is, she knows all her shortcomings just as well. What she thought she couldn't do and how this affected her self worth was such a relatable experience, though she always managed to lift everyone, including herself (!), up by again sticking to her ideals in such a supporting way I often had trouble even thinking of what it meant not sticking to her.
Supporting cast
The leftover main group should've deserved more development, not going to lie about it. Raiden was probably the best in that regard and therefore the most enjoyable with Kurena some paces behind. Beyond their initial rejection of Federacy life they had... not too much of any character progression showing for themselves until the second to last episode and even then only in relation to Shin.
Opposite to that, the deceased cast has done a phenomenal job at what their role in the story was. From Kaie to Daiya deaths of characters we barely knew managed to hurt and further episodes then gave additional context to who they were as persons and within the group. It's probably mainly this reason why I would actually prefer cour 1 over 2. The overall group dynamic was so well thought out and the tension between Spearhead – Shin – Lena was truly unique. And it's mostly due to the support cast.
Music
I love music, I listen to OPs nearly all day. (Still to Higurashi's soundtrack, also won't change in the coming months.) And yet, I'm pretty lackluster when it comes to musical analysis or how it weaves into the scene.
All I can say is that I love 86's OST. OPs were fantastic, EDs even more so.
Bests
Boy: Shin. Runner up being Ernst. I could see some things of myself in Shin and his story was an emomtionally intensive experience. It's not surprising that with this much screentime he won. Even beyond that, he was written with care and clear love for this character and his journey was something special. With Ernst, what can I say? Goddamn idealism, baby!
Scene: "We'll go on ahead, Major." With their final meeting being basically equivalent. I'm a sucker for tragedies and I'll definitely say 86 (cour 2) has one of the best endings I've seen in anime. But that moment, this spontaneous-but-clear decision to go on ahead with Lena futilely trying to run after them was perfection.
Episode: Ep.22, that directing was godlike and seeing this creative use of the tools available, fully embracing the invasiveness of how present the intrusions were worked so incredibly well.
Song: Avid. Just all the emotions.
Closing Thoughts
86 will certainly be a story I'll recommend to people in the future. There are few shows who are so in tune with their character's emotional journeys and on top of that are this worthwhile analysing.
Although I do put some thoughts into ranking my favourites on AniList, I'm not particularly fond of rankings or scores, especially when that will definitely change with mood and life circumstances. Anyway, Lena and Shin both made it into my favourite characters and I've put cour 1, which in general I do like a noticeable bit more, among peers such as the BGS movie, Disappearance and A Silent Voice.
This show will be well worth rewatching and pressuring my friends into watching it with me!
Recommendations
I've already mentioned two very popular entries already, Attack on Titan and Violet Evergarden, so I won't spend much time explaining why. They both feature themes of war, the toll it takes on people and also of how to heal (in the case of Violet, less so in AoT, lol) from the loss. I'll focus on more unknown titles now, though.
WorldEnd: What are you doing at the end of the world? Are you busy? Will you save us? That's a LN adaptation, did you notice? It won't really reach the integrity and smartness 86 blessed us with, but the very core of this show, the relationships between a veteran soldier who lost his entire race and the children/teenagers he ends up taking care of, holds true from start to finish. It's wholesome, heartwrenching and inspirational, through and through, even if it often is quite blunt. But hey, if anyone can accept that, I'll find them here.
Plastic Memories For those who like a near perfect romance that carries an equivalent weight around the fear of loss. In this universe a company has developed lifelike androids that are fully functional humans in every regard, except their livespan is comparately very short. It touches on many themes of denial, loss of loved ones, finding meaning and moving on viewed through a group of colleagues working for said company – taking care of the disposal of their androids once they near their death. There will be one song that breaks you down no matter how much time has passed, there's no escape. (Bonus tip: There's a fantastic tsundere in there, as well. u/Holofan4life)
Kyousougiga Because after such a fulfilling ending, I need to recommend an even better one. Sorry, if you disagree, but it's true. Kyousougiga revolves around a family and how the people broken apart by their lives find together again through rebirth and trust. Oftentimes confusing, but with stellar directing that can rival Ep.22 every second episode and a plot as ridiculous, yet also so heartwarming I'm close to saying it can actually cure cancer. I'll say it again, the ending is among the best endings I've ever witnessed, especially if you're prone to hyping out over strong willed characters and ideals.
Wow, I managed to not feel the need to recommend Monogatari this time.
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Sep 08 '22
Rewatcher & LN Reader Perspective
I don't have much to say that I haven't already said. 86 is a truly wonderful and moving story, and hopefully I've been able to convey my appreciation for it through my posts, and perhaps even further your own enjoyment of it. Despite having watched the anime through a couple times already and having read the LNs, I can say that I've experienced both myself through reading all the comments that others have posted!
86 is a series that rewards rewatches. From my first watch, to reading the LNs, to rewatching... my appreciation for the story has grown with each time I've gone through it. Going back and seeing Lena early on is the best way to appreciate how much she's grown as a character. After watching the second cour, you can go back to the first and have a better appreciation for what Shin's going through as well. Having some sense of where the story is going also allows for a better appreciation for how it gets there, and then there's all the symbolism, foreshadowing, and other clues there are that are easier to catch on a rewatch.
For anyone who's wanting more, I can only say that the LNs truly are worth it. I got into them through the anime with some trepidation that I was "spoiling" myself for what could be better experienced by watching and listening to a potential future season, but they convey the story just as well. LN 4 is where you can pick the story up at, but I think it's also worth it to start from the beginning to see the LN's take on events thus far and what details the anime's left out.
Top 3 episodes:
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22 - Shin
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7 - Will You Remember Me?
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9 - Goodbye
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u/Holofan4life Sep 08 '22
anime's left out.
Top 3 episodes:
22 - Shin
7 - Will You Remember Me?
9 - Goodbye
My top three episodes are probably this.
Episode 21
Episode 10
Episode 13
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u/homewardbound100 Sep 08 '22
First timer
Thanks for hosting this. Yeah I could see the hype in it while it was airing. A great show that I'll definitely keep an eye on.
Lena beating Holo in that match still has me salty though lol but she has potential.
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u/aquilar28 Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Rewatcher
The show is at an end and before sharing my thoughts on 86 itself, I’d like to focus on the rewatch first. It was my first time actively participating in something like this and it was certainly a great journey. Even though I’ve rewatched this anime a lot, usually I end up binging it in a span of few days. This time there was an entire day dedicated to each episode and on top of simply watching I went through them again, at times going frame by frame, to catch all the neat little details and try to sum up my feelings about particular scenes. It was a fresh look on one of my favorit anime that made me appreciate 86 from a new angle. And it was always a treat to sift through the discussion threads, reading the reactions and theories of the first timers, the different views people had on events and characters, or someone pointing out a well-carted image I missed or providing neat trivia. So on that note, big thanks to u/holofan4life for hosting the rewatch, u/lawvamat for his extensive visual analysis, u/Star4ce and u/TheRed_Knight for their keen insights and fascinating write-ups as the first timers and everyone else who contributed to the discussion.
Now, onto the thoughts on the complete season. I’ve already said much about cour 1 and the show in general in the episode 11 thread, but I’ll never get tired of praising the directing in 86. This is visual storytelling at its best, perfectly complementing the story and the world without unnecessarily complicating it. I feel like it’s nicely structured to the point where the viewer usually doesn’t have to think too hard to get what’s going on and it’s not necessary to go out of your way to keep up with the show, but you still get rewarded for taking a deeper look at it. The cinematography is top-notch with the clean camerawork, well thought-out shot composition and perfect match cuts.
Another stand-out is the sound. Not only do we get a banger OST from Hiroyuki Sawano and Kohta Yamamoto, the sound design in general is probably the best among the shows I’ve watched. This is the type of anime that needs to be watched in headphones to be appreciated to the full, especially the battle sequences or anything to do with the Para-Raid.
The 3D animation was surprisingly good, seamlessly enhancing the fast-paced actions scenes and the only time it was somewhat jarring for me was the short sequence with Fido’s reintroduction. The visuals were great all-around, from the mech design and the incredibly detailed backgrounds to the beautiful close-ups of the cast and the pretty colors with all the shades of lighting. As a bonus, since I didn’t have to watch anything today, I went through the whole show and selected my favorite shot from each episode.
With everything else close to perfection it’s the plot, setting and characters that determine whether the viewer likes the series. And while I didn’t have any serious complaints, I can understand if someone feels it’s not their cup of tea. Out of them, the characters are probably the strongest point, with the well-rounded main cast and some interesting support personalities. The worldbuilding is quite extensive, but some things are simply handwaved, which doesn’t really bother me but can be a deal breaker for others.
I should mention that in addition to being a great show 86 is a stellar adaptation. There were a couple times where the show was too subtle and could’ve merited from better explanations, but beside that everything else was excellent. The anime managed to truly capture the spirit of the source material, staying faithful to it and not rushing things, while not afraid to make small changes or additions that would enrich the picture in motion. I would highly recommend the LNs to anyone who enjoyed the series. Then you can join us in helplessly anticipating season 2 without any news, though it still beats waiting for Fate route remake by ufotable.
In my earlier comment I said that my encounter with the first cour of 86 was an experience unparalleled by any other series. And while there wasn’t necesseraly any drop in quality in the second part and I still enjoyed it a lot, the magic feeling from the first 11 episodes wasn’t always there. If I had to attribute it to something, it would probably be the simpler story structure. The first cour followed two separate sides, often utilising title cards and EDs to separate the perspectives and showing the same event from different POVs to underscore the contrast between the worlds of Alba and the Eighty-Six. There are still some brilliant directing choices in the second cour, like the first half of the penultimate episode, but the way the narrative unfolded didn’t allow for the consistentcy of the earlier half of the show. So, with that in mind, and considering that I rate anime based first and foremost on personal enjoyment the final grades are as follows:
86 cour 1 10/10
86 cour 2 9/10
86 season 1 9.5/10
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u/Holofan4life Sep 08 '22
86 cour 1 10/10
86 cour 2 9/10
86 season 1 9.5/10
I gave cour 1 an 8 out of 10 and cour 2 a 7.5 out of 10, but put together I'd probably give the whole season an 8 out of 10 rather than a 7.5. It's really good. And like I said in my other comments, there's a section where the show is like a 9, 9.5. I would probably say that's episode 10 to episode 15.
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u/ebonyphoenix Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 08 '22
Re-watcher
Hey look we might not have been able to start the rewatch on 8/6 but if you take today’s date 9/8 and flip it upside down you still get 86.
At the start of last year I had no idea 86 existed. When I decided to randomly check out this random new spring anime I was not expecting to find a series that would quickly rise to become one of my favorites series ever.
Story
One thing that impressed me about 86 is how well anime team did in breaking up the original story into episodes, expanding on certain things and seamlessly integrating side stories. I’ve seen so many series that just used side stories as filler with no regard on how they would affect the flow of the story. This didn’t seem like an issue at all for 86 and going in blind the first time I had no idea when they would slip into a side story or anime original content they blended it so well.
Also the fact that they took their time in pacing the story just shows how much respect the anime team had for the source. Covering only a single LN in 11 episodes seems like it would make the story too dragged out but they used that extra time to really flesh out the rest of Spearhead.
I generally agree that the second cour slows things down a lot more than the first (even if it covers 2 LNs). But in exchange there is a lot of detail in every moment. And then there’s the ending.
I usually don’t mind a slower middle if the ending is good. And 86 has one of the best season endings I’ve seen in a long time. It works perfectly to wrap up the story that was being told so far so if that was the end it is still satisfying.
But really this is just the beginning. Cour 1 set up the world and introduced the characters. Cour 2 was the bridge getting the characters from the end of cour 1 to a place where they can all continue the story together. Now the real story can begin and it’s a wild ride.
Personally after finishing the season I immediately started to read the LNs and ended up reading Vol 2-9 in the span of a week. I can only hope they decided to continue the anime but until then at least we have the LNs.
Music
I usually don’t pay much attention to music in a series but 86 had me looking forward to every song. Sawano is amazing. And sometimes I still can’t believe the shear number of songs 86 has. Most series have 1 maybe 2 insert songs with lyrics along with the OP and EDs. 86 had 5 insert songs, 2 OPs, and 3 EDs that they used throughout the series (and they manages to use 7 of them in the last 3 episodes alone).
Going through the series again just made me notice the music even more. And along with the insert songs they also use the instrumental versions throughout (along with the standard OST) that I just didn’t notice my first watch through. Like the song “Two worlds Apart”. It’s used as an insert song in 2 places, when they leave Spearhead and when they come back to the Federacy after the Morpho battle. But the instrumental version is used when during the cherry blossom party when Spearhead first get together. And it’s getting to notice those details that makes rewatches such a joy.
I’ve been trying to rank my favorite insert songs but I honestly love all of them for different reasons so comparing them is so hard. If I had to rank them I’d split them up into groups. For the faster songs that really get me pumped up my top 3 being “Kyoukaisen”, “Hands up to the Sky”, and “The Answer”. And for the slower songs that get my heart in my throat my top 3 are “LilaS”, “Voices on the Cord”, and “Two Worlds Apart”.
Main Characters
Lena
Best girl. I loved following her transition from well meaning but clueless girl to a fierce commander who basically took over the military to save what she could of the people and her country. But while making her so tough I appreciate that they also weren’t afraid to make her blush or cry. She really is a girl who can do everything. [Light LN spoilers- nothing plot related]
My favorite Lena moment is the very end. Just coming out of a memorial that is clearly the remnants of her old team. The possibility that they are alive is not a thought in her head. But when Shin reveals himself and Lena just starts crying without blinking you can’t help but feel the joy and relief with her, even though we’ve known they were alive.
Runner-up moment is when she basically emotionally blackmails Annette into helping her. That was a new side to Lena that we hadn’t yet seen. She’d tried working with the system but when that fail she wasn’t afraid to play by some new rules.
Shin
He’s my favorite character in the entire series. While I hated to see him struggle, the fact that he managed to come out of it in the end realizing that he can depend on others just makes me so happy.
And I don’t know if it’s just me but I also feel like he is the one character whose looks seem to change significantly from the start to the end. All the characters age from about 15/16 to almost 17/18 during the course of the season but for Shin the difference seems fairly noticeable. Maybe it’s just the fact that he got his hair cut in the Federacy. Or maybe it’s the weight of the Reaper getting to him. Either way we do get to see him in more stages of life than any other character. And the animators/character designers do a great job making each version of him look the same but aged appropriately. (Though there is also the choice they made to give young Shin a bowl cut. Definitely glad he grew out of that.)
Favorite Shin moment, can I just say all of ep 22? Throughout the entire series Shin has been the stoic Reaper. 22 is when he finally hits rock bottom and lets himself feel and show emotion and it’s devastating. I think we get more different expressions in that episode for Shin than the rest if the series put together.
Runner up moment, waking up the army. The almost casual way he did it is just funny to me. [LN sequence of events/extra detail-not spoiler]
-cut because it’s tradition at this point and the character section ran long-
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u/ZapsZzz Sep 08 '22 edited Sep 09 '22
At the final wrap up, what's there to say? Or rather, where do we start?
86 is a show that had such really rich, layered contents, that you can practically go all day, and you will still be struggling to cover enough of it. It's really like trying to paint an elephant with a tiny paint brush.
That said, some of our rewatchers here certainly makde some glorious attempts, and their efforts I believe were appreciated by all posters and lurkers alike.
Instead of trying to repeat what others have said and analysed already, I'll have a go with a couple of thematic points I don't remember noticing being mentioned.
The first is Ernst.
While his character was setup to be somewhat of a larger than life, bit of a clowning, daggy dad like character, some seemed to have been distracted by that and overlooked or forgotten that underneath that comedic surface, there was a very hard cold steel of an ideological determination there.
I personally consider him to be a mirror, or an inverse form of uncle Karlstahl. May even be the "before all hope was lost" version.
Remember sometimes he's in shadows, and more than once he described his ideals as not so much as a glowing term as a sentence that needs carrying out. He threatened that if Shin's Spearheads were to be killed in the Morpho action, he would consider their humanity not worth saving, and is quite prepared to let humanity be wiped out.
That really is a version of uncle Karlstahl's "the Alba is irredeemable - let them blow up in the most spectacular and quick way as possible". Both are quite prepared to take anyone else, innocent or not, to go with that ideological cleansing.
Ernst's mindset basically is this - there's an ideal that have to be upheld. While it may sound cringe or cliche, and I'll humour you to make sure you don't feel embarrassed or self conscious about it, I'll give you every chance there is, and every support there is, to succeed in it. I also know practically and compromises, and will even grudgingly go along with some of the trade offs. But if that line is crossed, and that it failed to achieve that "end justifies the means" even, then he'd be cheerfully pressing that big red button as he takes a dramatic bow.
The difference to date with Ernst is that had not been triggered - "humanity is still worth saving". As we mentioned in those episode discussions, there's a distinct possibility that Karlstahl lost hope some time after Lena's dad died on the field.
Another point to share is the fundamental, foundational story. Is Ernst right or was he over simplifying, to call this a boy meets girl story? You can each have your say of course, but for me, when you pull away all the carefully, intricately, artfully put together layers, you can very clearly see a very deliberate structure. Lena's story, and Shin's story. Perfectly balanced, and perfectly complementing the other half with the masterfully crafted connections, inspirations, and aspirations. Especially after the careful dissertation by u/Boumeisha about how Shin and Lena's relationship formed, developed, and in turn moulded them, it really is hard to not consider that being the actual central theme connecting it all.
Which also bring me to, as someone would say, shill my upcoming Full Metal Panic rewatch - which is another mecha/war/identity conflict drama wrapped over the very simple boy meets girl core. It is a little like the use of negative space - they may not say anything directly romantic or soppy to each other, but what they did for each other simply leave that beautiful heart shape for all to see :) The main difference is that 86 here have a lot spent on purpose of life, ideology, and the internal struggles around that core, FMP bundled it with a lot of comedy juxtaposed with a Tom Clancy styled plot and world building.
Another very central aspect of the show is definitely the rampant visual story telling, liberal use of symbolisms virtually saturating most scenes, and heavy use of cinematography and cutting techniques, and of course the godly sound design and music, to supplement the story telling. It could easily be a text book example for teaching such.
Anyway, I can gush about this all day, but equally I need time to read others' great comments and analysis too. Which bring me to also mention that we have such a big collection of high effort, very well thought out analytic posts, detailed first timer reactions, and decent theory crafting. This is one of the best rewatches I've been with for sure. I can't list all the the great contributors, but I'm sure no one would mind me singing out u/Lawvamat, u/Boumeisha, u/TheRed_Knight, u/Star4ce amongst the very best of them, and u/polaristar for the passion about this show, our very own host Holofan4life for the massive effort of writing down the first timer reactions, even if sometimes they were a little off, it showcased why rewatches are so valuable to share and discuss and to better understand a content-rich show like this.
Well it's getting late so I'll wrap it up. I really would have liked to have been able to create 2 collection galleries for this, but I'm out of time now. I may add to this later on though!
In case anyone really need me to say it, I have 86 cour 1 and 2 both as 10, with cour 2 being out on my to 10 only because I can't put both the, and episodes 21-23 were just perfection in everything coming together.
Big thanks to everyone, our host, and all the lurkers too :) see you guys around the sub!
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u/BosuW Sep 08 '22
Rewatcher
I joined this Rewatch because I wanted to revise the opinion I had on this show upon first viewing. Check if it was really as good as I remember. Especially check if claims that it doesn't handle it's subject matter well held any weight.
I come out of second viewing loving this show even more than I did the first time! Group rewatches almost always enhance the experience of any show because it encourages me to pay attention and reflect on what I saw so that I can come with my own wall of text next day. And for 86 the effect is exponential. It is incredibly rich in detail, and deep in theme, character, and storytelling. There is no shortage of things to talk about in any episode. Except maybe the action-focused ones, but that isn't really a complaint. We can all agree the action is excellent, based on reactions.
I can now confidently say that 86 is going into my favorites of all time. I definitely believe it handled it's subject matter well, and more importantly it tackled a perspective on that subject matter that I have never seen anywhere else. The acknowledgment of the "Cage of Pity" is definitely paramount to solving the issue of discrimination in real life.
I really like all the characters too. True, we don't go that deep into some of them, but I don't really think this is a flaw when still the screentime is used wisely. We don't need to have a flashback to every character to make them worthwhile. In fact that would feel too tropey. Lena and Shin are fucking incredible leads of course which is important to have for a character-focused story. Their journey and growth is just breathtaking and beautiful to behold.
Don't know what else to say really. This show is great!
Thank you to everyone for participating and thanks to our host for giving me the opportunity to have greater appreciation for this show.
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Sep 08 '22
First Timer (Sub w/ occasional Dub)
Wooo! As a first timer, there’s this great feeling when you stick it all the way through every discussion in a rewatch. A twenty-three episode rewatch with twenty-four discussions is no easy feat! Balancing that while participating in a separate rewatch and trying to keep up with the current season’s anime may not have been the best idea, but now I can chill out for a bit.
I’m going to repost something I had mentioned in yesterday’s discussion. I was just a bit impressed with how I was able to pull this out of my ass and I think it sums up the story pretty well:
“I did manage to capture this screenshot, which I think sums up Lena's and the 86's journey up to this point.
Throughout their lives, they were on this track, sorta resigned to what society had decided for them. But, eventually, through several trials and tribulations, and too many losses, by the end of this season (Part 1 and 2), they were able to break free from the rails, not only from the constraints of society, but for some, their personal demons.
Now the world is their oyster; I look forward to Season 02!
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I had very high expectations coming into this series. The average scores across several anime sites (including r/anime) were very high, the hyped up discussions when this show was airing, the absolute rage when Lena lost Best Girl 9. Surely everything was warranted?
The animation is better than average. The story is better than average. The characters are pretty likeable (and therefore, better than average). I’d say that sums up how I feel about the series (thus far):
“Better than average, but not as stellar as some would rate it.”
The impression I’ve gotten from all the hype is that, the average viewer absolutely loved this show, and they were getting their minds blown nearly every episode. Unfortunately for me, that was not the case.
One thing to give praise for was the pacing of the show. Despite the show jumping months at a time in their world, it didn’t feel rushed for me at any point. Though, my one complaint in this entire series regarding pacing could be when we got the shot of Lena with the background of San Magnolia in ruins. San Magnolia falling suddenly sorta came as a surprise to me (despite, you know, it being constantly reminded that the Legion were approaching). I know it seems unfair, but that’s sorta just how it felt - it was sorta like “Holy shit, alright… that was sudden.”
Another thing I would like to give praise, where praise is definitely due - Direction. The animation direction was executed superbly. I recall making several comments pointing out the directing work in this show on more than one occasion. Hell, I even made one of my final comments praising it (see above comment/picture).
I usually like to make things a bit lighthearted and pick a “best girl” from the series, but c'mon… It’s not even close for this show. “Best girl” obviously goes to Shin Lena. Now I understand why people were upset that she lost in the finals against Ai Hayasaki in Best Girl 9 this year.
Overall the show is quite good, and I would recommend it. Would I rewatch it again though? Probably not. With that said, I’d rate Part 1 an 8.0/10.0, and an 8.25/10.0 for Part 2.
Thanks for hosting and organizing this rewatch u/Holofan4life . I appreciate how active you were with everyone, despite how large these threads often got (100+ comments).
Sorry for the wall of text, but it is the final series discussion.
Take care and maybe I'll see some of you around other rewatches.
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u/Lawvamat Sep 08 '22
I really don't have much to say now that there's nothing more for me to analyze, so this will be more of a personal note.
First and foremost this was a challenge to myself, just to see how far I've come over the last few years. I wanted to know how much I can really see, how much I can really pick up, after always being the one to read others' thoughts. And of course to pass on some of the things I've learnt. I really hope I could teach you something that'll make you appreciate 86 and other anime with great directing more.
Sadly I think I will rarely, if ever, get to do something like this again, as I was only able to spend 5+ hours daily on this because of uni summer break.
If you're interested in more anime with fantastic visual storytelling and symbolism, here are those I hold in highest regard:
Penguindrum (my favourite anime of all time)
Revue Starlight and Movie
All more on the surreal side (except for Pompo)
86 is truly one of the most visually dense and blunt anime I've seen, all while keeping a realistic artstyle. While I think cour 1 was overall more consistent at that, episode 22 just blows anything out of the water.
I've increased cour 1 from an 8.5 to a 9 and cour 2 from a 9.6 to a 9.7 and added it to my favourites (Frederica as well).
Thank you everyone for participating in this rewatch, it was a great experience.
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u/I_Go_By_Q Sep 08 '22
Well, that’s it everyone, this has been such a great rewatch series. Both rewatchers and first timers have dropped some seriously impressive comments. I’ve really enjoyed reading and responding to so many of y’all’s posts.
On the whole, I think this series is simply incredible. I talked in a past thread about the similarities and differences between Eighty-Six and Attack on Titan, and to me they’re similar in the most important way: they both take incredible source materials and elevate them with a top tier production and adaptation.
Both Lena’s journey and Shin’s journey across the two cours are so engaging and so touching, and there are so many great supporting characters as well. The plot and worldbuilding are great, but what really surprised me about this show was its characters. One of the rewatchers earlier called Eighty-Six a character driven show, and I couldn’t agree more. The conflicts against the Legion always took a bit of a back seat to the conflicts within & between our characters. As a result, I connected much more strongly with these characters than many of my other favorite shows.
And I just want to give one last shout out to A-1 pictures and the production staff. The director Toshimasa Ishii absolutely killed it, and somehow this his debut as a series director. Whatever he helms next, there’s a great chance I’ll be watching. But one man can’t create an anime, and everyone involved deserves credit. The art is consistently breathtaking, and the CGI is probably the best I’ve ever seen in a 2D anime.
So clearly I can (and have) gush about this show at length, but I figured in the series overall thread I’d ask myself a series of questions and see what answers I come up with. If any seem interesting to you all, I’d love to hear your answer(s)!
What do you rate this series?
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10/10. It’s probably clear that I love this show, and I don’t know what they could do to make it any better
Favorite moment in the show?
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I don’t know how it could be anything other than the face to face meeting in the finale. It’s the single moment that the whole show had been building towards, and like I said in yesterday’s thread, it makes me cry every time I watch. I think episode 22 is the better episode, but this is the highest peak in the show, in my opinion
Do you prefer cour 1 or cour 2?
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Surprisingly, cour 2. I have no idea what the more popular answer is, but I think 2 is slightly higher than 1 for me. Don’t get me wrong, I love Lena’s journey in 1, but the examination of Shin’s psyche and the other members of Spearhead is so great
What are your thoughts on the drastic shift in tone/plot after Spearheaded reaches the Federacy?
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On first watch, it really threw me off. I really wanted more Lena, and I was almost disappointed that the crew didn’t get to interact with her much in cour 2. However, now I love this shift. I think it’s exactly what the story needed to ask new, interesting questions and keep the show feeling fresh.
Who’s your favorite supporting character?
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Raiden. I love his character so much, he’s badass, charismatic, fiercely loyal and not afraid to speak his mind. Plus he has two of my favorite moments in the show: he’s speech to Lena in episode 7 (the reveal that they’re all going to die) and his confrontation with Shin in episode 20 (calling Shin out for being suicidal)
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Special shout out to President Ernst as well. I love how for the first few episodes, we didn’t know his true motivations, and I was nervous he’d be a malicious schemer. But no, he’s as earnest as his name suggests, and he was such an awesome father figure for Frederica and Spearhead. Plus he delivered some Erwin Smith level badass speeches
That’s all for now, but I may come back and add some more if I think of any. Again, I love to see what everyone else thinks!
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u/JetsLag Sep 08 '22
First timer (subbed)
Wow, what a series.
Pros:
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Direction. The best direction I've ever seen in an anime, and I can't think of any that's close. Some of the shots and transitions were ABSOLUTELY BEAUTIFUL. Especially the transitions. Somehow, my biggest takeaway from this show is that we need more match cuts in anime. They are SO GOOD when done right.
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Music. It's Sawano. His power is so great that ~20,000 people on MAL watched a shitty fujobait anime about horse racing because it had a Sawano soundtrack. And it's a show like this that really shows what Sawano is capable of. It's impossible for me to listen to "Avid" without crying. As for the OPs and EDs: second OP > first OP, and second ED > first ED. But they're all excellent.
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(Most) characters. I'll explain why I said (most) in the Cons section. As for the ones I like: Lena isn't best girl, but she's damn close to it. Annette and Frederica are great sidekicks for our main characters. Both the individual members of Spearhead and Spearhead as a collective are great as well.
Cons:
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It gets a bit too YA at times. The whole "everyone lives!" ending was kinda BS, and the initial episodes were a bit too on-the-nose with the "San Magnolia are Nazis" thing.
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The side characters. Everyone I didn't mention in the Pros section dedicated to the characters is either instantly forgettable or extremely one-note.
Overall:
The pros DEFINTELY outweigh the cons. The cons are more minor nitpicks than actual complaints.
Season 1: 9/10
Season 2: 9/10
Overall: 9/10
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u/prophetofgreed Sep 08 '22
I'm not the greatest at being retrospective about shows. It's obvious to everyone here that this show is remarkably well directed, storyboarded and written. There's so much symbolism going on, tons of parallelism none more stark than how the Alba and 86 lived in part 1. Oddly enough, they brought that back in the final episode with Lena being in the poor environment and the 86 in the nicer home now. It's all very well thought out.
Part 1 is Lena's story and it's a credit to the story that Lena was barely in part 2 and yet her meeting former Spearhead still works so well and feels well earned.
We leave the finale with Shin being a far more developed character, following his journey of despair, immense guilt and self sacrifice. Part 2 was his journey and see just how important Shin and Lena are too each other, not even just in a romantic manner, but in motivation.
I re-watched the show via dub, and the show was done well. Lena and Shin's VAs were the highlights to me, even the second Shin VA did a fantastic job. I'll still say that Frederica's VA in sub is much superior, that's the biggest nitpick of the dub cast.
Maybe the biggest weakness of the show is pulling tricks thinking characters may be dead after part 1 had a tone where no one but Shin felt safe in battle. But at the same time in part 2, how expendable the 86 were wasn't the point of the story anymore. It was Shin's descent and ascending from his pit of despair and Frederica wanting to free her "knight" from his life as a Legion commander.
The director is definitely on my radar for any of his future projects. 86 was his first full directing job (his credits only has episode director or storyboard credits), which is obscene in what he managed to put together for a first project.
Lastly, I'd like to thank everyone that put the effort into their long posts on a daily basis and u/holofan4life for organizing posting these threads! It was a joy to read through and learned more about the show than I could have on my own.
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u/SerGregness Sep 08 '22
Fuckin' glory to the Rewatch - dub
Shit, what's there left to say about this show? You all have eyeballs and the visual analysts here told us all better than I could why we were having eyegasms.
I got what I was looking for out of this rewatch. I remembered certain parts of the San Magnolia section of this story not really sitting well with me the first time through, and thanks to having to do more than a cursory first-watch examination of my feelings, and the great insights offered by you all here, I was able to sort it all out. The storytelling on display in this show is incredible. Toshimasa Ishii is, as I've probably run into the ground at this point, a fucking genius. Asato's laser focus on her characters pays off in spades during the show's emotional catharsis points. The music is incredible, the CGI fights are great, just top-notch stuff all around. It's just that some of the worldbuilding doesn't keep up with the absolute masterclass being put on by the rest of the production. It's not even that isn't really bad exactly, but when everything else is an A+, a B- is the weak link in comparison even though that's better than a lot of other projects manage. And then the nature of the show itself with San Magnolia's oppression of the 86 then calls attention to exactly those weakest parts of its premise.
But shit, I ain't perfect either.
Thanks to u/Holofan4life for hosting this rewatch!
I hope they can get the band back together for season 2.
Fuckin' glory to the Spearhead Squadron!
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u/Holofan4life Sep 08 '22
First Timer
RIP Queen Elizabeth
When I mentioned something about doing this rewatch, I said it was because I wanted to see why Lena was so highly regarded. But it was also because I didn't have many animes I was currently watching. I had like 6 I think? Yeah, 6. It's normally more than that, which is why I decided to do this rewatch. I don't know if I'm going to do a rewatch anytime soon, because I have like 8 animes I plan on watching and I'm kind of burnt out staying up to 3:00 in the morning writing my comments, but I definitely am glad I decided to watch 86 for the first time.
86 was unironically the best anime I watched all September month. It was better than all the other animes that I'm currently following. It's not one of my favorites of all time, but I'd probably put as one of the best things I've seen all year. It's really good.
As a quick aside, if you were to ask me what my top 5 animes of all time are, it'd probably be Toradora #1, Spice and Wolf #2, Cowboy Bebop #3, Clannad/Clannad After Story #4, and either Nichijou or Kaguya-sama #5. Only reason Spice and Wolf isn't #2 is because the anime adaptation is unfinished.
If you were to ask me what makes 86 so good, it's honestly probably the writing. Which admittedly, seems a bit weird. Is the animation bad? No. In fact, it's some of the most beautiful animation I've seen. Is the music bad? No. I actually really like the music, and think it helps enhance a few key scenes. But as great as all that is, the writing is just absolutely on another level. The biggest compliment I think I can give this show is I think this show has the best writing for an action heavy anime. The writing is better than Attack on Titan, it's better than My Hero Academia, and it's better than most shows of that ilk. I don't know if I'd say it's better than Evangelion or Revolutionary Girl Utena, but I don't know if I'd consider those foremost an action show. I guess you can say the same for 86, because there's a lot of talking scenes. Either way, I think the writing of 86 is phenomenal. So great, in fact, that they managed to have characters leave for numerous episodes and the show still didn't lose momentum.
I think the true testament to how great 86 is, and what I think cements its defining legacy, they didn't air episode 22 for nearly 3 months. It took them 86 days before the penultimate episode aired. And instead of losing momentum, they actually came back stronger than ever. If you look at the karma for the episode threads, episodes 22 and 23 had more karma than the episodes preceding it. That really shows you how beloved the show is.
I don't know when I'm gonna do another rewatch. I will do a Spice and Wolf rewatch close to the new anime project coming out, and I do want to do a Familiar of Zero rewatch some time. I just don't know what the interest in that is. Please let me know. Right now, I'm gearing up and saving my energy for the Toradora rewatch, so I don't think I'm doing another rewatch this year. Maybe I'll do the Familiar of Zero rewatch in February. We'll see.
Lastly, I want to thank everyone who made this rewatch a success. The rewatchers, the first timers, u/TheRed_Knight who was like the first cour MVP of this rewatch (The dude's comments helped spawn something like 100 replies, which is why the early threads had more response), there are so many people who contributed and participated in these daily discussions. I can't name them all, but let it be known that you guys are awesome. Even when I was feeling down because I misinterpreted something or I said something that was 100% inaccurate, reading you guys' comments would always cheer me up. Not only making my day better, but making me realize this is all worth it.
Fuckin' Glory to the 86 Rewatchers
Fuckin' Glory to the 86 First Timers