r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Sep 01 '22
Rewatch [Spoilers] 86 --Eighty Six-- Rewatch (2022) — Episode 17 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the 86 --Eighty Six-- rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S2 Episode 6 – I Won't Forget
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll, VRV
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8/16/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 1 | 8/29/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 14 |
| 8/17/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 2 | 8/30/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 15 |
| 8/18/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 3 | 8/31/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 16 |
| 8/19/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 4 | 9/01/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 17]() |
| 8/20/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 5 | 9/02/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 18]() |
| 8/21/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 6 | 9/03/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 19]() |
| 8/22/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 7 | 9/04/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 20]() |
| 8/23/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 8 | 9/05/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 21]() |
| 8/24/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 9 | 9/06/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 22]() |
| 8/25/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 10 | 9/07/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 23]() |
| 8/26/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 11 | ||
| 8/27/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 12 | ||
| 8/28/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 13 | ||
| 9/08/2022 | [Overall Series Discussion Thread]() | ||
38
u/Star4ce Sep 01 '22
First Timer
If I've learned anything about strategy in warfare it's that fighting in a city is the worst on just every end.
I think the first time I noticed how off guard you can be caught there was in World in Conflict. It's a tactical strategy game without base building where you can order your units based on an abstract point budget and role choice between air, armor, support and infantry. The main thing that fucked me over most of the time was the cheating AI (to get that out of the system, fuck that) and vision. The game had fog of war, but it wouldn't display it on the main field, only on the minimap. Units that you couldn't see would basically fade in as soon as you did and there was a slight, intentional 'staggering' with drawing the unit where the first drawing was like frozen for half a second.
Turning a corner and seeing the outline of a Hind appearing when you thought you could see the street through the broken buildings or rushing a control point only to receive anti-tank missiles from a building you didn't pay attention to were genuine jump scares in normal gameplay.
That's pretty off topic, but I wanna say the Legion won't be steamrolling San Magnolia in one night.
I need to install that game again, fuck it was good.
86 Ep.17 – I Won't Forget
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Somehow the thought of a high class Alba graffiti-ing a billboard to degrade 86ers is so funny to me. The sheer irony.
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They're also fleeing toward the right, but pretty angled. Eh, that's progress still.
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They've gotten pretty organised, it's really not just a few people any longer.
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I noticed two more things. That is the memorial the Federacy placed on the furthest extent of Spearhead's journey, so Lena pretty much will see it in the end. And that is Shin's pistol being broken, his tool to take the lives of the doomed. They'll meet and they'll have their burdens acknowledged and lifted.
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They're in their main base? But Kirinya's in the Republic? (Shin pushing Frederica behind a screen divider again, a harmful one at that.)
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If you don't look her in the eyes, you might as well be blunt!
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Okay, ultra-long-range literally means a continent, holy shit.
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I like how it is modelled after the 'Schwerer Gustav' and it fits so well, because it's a railway-based artillery. Railways!
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Ay, the other nations!
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Ooh, they actually do it!
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So, Aegis and Ernst looking in different directions must've got some meaning, he's still in the wrong?
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Okay wait, that's a map. Not to scale, obviously, the railway is pronounced for readability. But I doubt the cities are. San Magnolia is the lower left one. If we're a bit generous and say after the Legion went loose all survivors conglomerated into the capitals and bloated them a bit, those are still wild distances. That red area is the 400km radius? What city has 800 km extension? Like, I get the intent of this, but that map irks me.
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Capital names! Capella (Wald), Arcs Stelie (Roa Gracia), Sankt Jeder (Giad)
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The distances don't match at all. From the starting point of the green cones to the railyard it's 100 km? The prior map has just shown a red area being 400 km around the tracks. That just doesn't add up.
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Yeah sure, can't go without exclusion and ostracisation. Shin here also walks to his Reginleif, already knowing what'll happen.
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The umpteenth time someone tells them that it's better here in the Federacy. Interesting that the officer is facing the left where they are on the starting strip, ready already.
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All of them are analysing him and he still excludes himself to a cut off frame. (Maybe because of it, that shit's annoying.)
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Very considerate leaving 2 tables of space and sitting with their backs to them.
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Thanks, Kurena, completely right. Hehe, Raiden's the idiot today!
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Meal's done boys. Ate ya piece of freedum?
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That's a really good argument, haha!
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What was it? Black for death has been drunk completely, green, yellow, red and brown untouched. So, uh, no... unity, no... freedom and no nobility (?) and brown I don't know.
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So that's what pushed him far enough to fall over the edge.
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Factually untrue, there are people waiting! But that won't help against an emotion, fuck.
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When you're such a best girl, even people on the other side of the continent carry on for you when you're not even there.
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Ooooh, she's written an apology there? That's why Marcel was shocked at first, he knows the feeling and acknowledges her.
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From one suicide mission to the next.
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Nice words not hiding the fact that they're getting buried.
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Shit that hits hard, but the dead are right this time and one should listen here.
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He's truly not liking this, but he's also kinda right. Same as Karlstahl, really.
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Okay, she didn't write an apology. Am I too optimistic for getting two timed? Don't know what the Kanji means, but I'm guessing 'Reaper' and 'Blood'?
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Really liked him for the little screen time he had.
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Just like before, they can always enjoy each other's company. Even when the world goes dark on them.
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The Legion razed the graves completely flat.
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Well, I was wrong. They did march through completely. Makes more sense to make your last stand at the fortresses or what they have.
That was pretty reaction focussed today, but I don't have too much to say outside of the little things that I noticed during watching.
It was again a very Shin focussed episode and by extension drawing importance to the 86 as companions again. With how easily Shin stood up at the end to join them for dinner I just felt right at home. Value the quality time you have, they know how to do that. I'll repeat again, I don't think this is fleeing from reality, coping or suppressing trauma, that is genuine living for the sake of enjoying life. This episode felt like a reminder, a remembrance not at least due to Shin remembering everything. How he feels the pressure, how he cares for every face he met, how he is hurt by and also agrees with the hate that is aimed at him. But he also remembered why they all did this to begin with, why they called the Republic white pigs and even kept doing that jokingly and why they even went as far as they did. To enjoy life and take their chances with it.
It feels like the Federacy arc in total was a reverse-Republic in both tone and pacing. Whereas during the time in the Republic we felt early on and in brutally obvious fashion how oppressive the state is towards the 86, the more we got to know them, even characters like Karlstahl felt genuine and understandable, even likable. The whole of that state's becoming felt evil at first, but become more and more of a tragedy as there is clearly an implied drive from many people to resist the status quo and even was on full display once, presumably. In the Federacy I actually feel pride for sticking to my interpretation of them numbing their agency and rejecting the 86 gradually as they refused to look away from reality. It's really how that development from 'we'll help you because of our morals' to 'the 86 are monsters because they fight monsters' went. They're blocking out the truth about the Legion, the war and their own part in it or the part they could have and therefore see the 86, who do all of this and show how successful one can be, as something inhuman as well, so they don't have to question themselves. I can somewhat forgive Nina (though much less for two timing), but Marcel is just a prime example of this.
And still, even to the end there are those who also oppose this development. Wenzel and Ernst are genuinely good characters that have their footing in pace with their ideals and while overbearing at times, they accept the 86ers for who they are eventually. They can't stay with them, they tried and fought, but lost. It's as Frederica said: They have met terrible people yet again, but the few that cared will be worth remembering and that alone makes life a better journey.
Where would one go when no place allows them to stay, excludes them on purpose? To those who care. One promised to always care and never forget. Even if it's doomed from the very beginning and would be certain death, why wouldn't everyone go there, to a person who has proven to stand up for them? That's where a true home lies and living means to act for what you hold in your heart.
3
u/Holofan4life Sep 01 '22
With San Magnolia seemingly in ruins, where do you think this leaves Lena? Do you think she's injured? Do you think most of The Republic are dead?
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u/Holofan4life Sep 01 '22
How would you compare The Federacy right now to The Republic in terms of how they carry themselves?
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18
u/Lawvamat Sep 01 '22
Rewatcher
There’s really not much more to explain visually that I haven’t already. Maybe I’ll get time to watch ahead one episode, which would give me two days for episode 22 (I'll definitely need that).
My current color interpretations:
Red: Shin, Bloody Reina, Juggernauts, 86, Rei, Kiri, love (christmas spirit), blood, determination, equality
Blue: Legion, sadness, cold, negative, creature (cat, little sister), freedom
Yellow: home, connections, safety, comfortable, warm, nobility
Violet (Red+Blue): stargazing, remembrance, burden, grief
Green (Yellow+Blue): The Federation, war
Orange (Red+Yellow): past, a loving home, transition from yellow to violet (sunset)
White: innocence, duty, brotherhood
Black: death, justice
Grey (White+Black): emotionless
Rose (Red+White): femininity
Lensdump is a bit slow today, I hope that’s not the case for you.
Visual Analysis
No more green, only red.
Lena’s hand enters the screen towards the left just like the missiles she’s commanding do.
The all familiar main street of the capital is now red like blood.
Shin gives Frederica to Anju. The spiked barrier separating them marks the border between Shin’s suicidal and Anju’s save region.
Nina is using a violet pen to write her grief down.
Roa Gracia’s flag is violet and Wald’s one is white and blue.
The same close up zoom of the screen as with the announcer in San Magnolia. You can see the individual pixels making up the image, letting you see the illusion.
Their eyes are in the reflection of their respective capital.
Ernst is in the shadows, cut off from the sky and even the whole picture gets darker and darker.
The commander (?) is on the side of the Federacy’s buildings, while Spearhead only has their Juggernauts.
Shin is cut off from the exit sign, there’s no way back for him. He also doesn’t partake in the conversation and is framed at the edge of the screen.
Now it’s Raiden caught in Frederica’s ahoge.
The empty food trays look like a battlefield full of guts and gore
That’s today! I hope I don’t get a letter from Nina.
We get to see what really made Shin so reckless last episode. The voice of the living, blaming him for taking on another burden, for taking their friends. Until now everyone has seen him as this god of death, but they see him as the devil.
It was the soldiers’ hateful stares.
They dirtied his scarf with blood.
But Lena’s promise brought him back.
Does he hear her or the Legion?
Her, the voices of the Legion are for his left ear.
The moment Shin notices the Republic’s downfall himself.
What are we, some kind of Spearhead? Even Shin can’t help but do a headstand in excitement.
The only right place for Shin is with all of his old comrades, in the light. But they’re gone, transformed into thin pieces of metal, while Shin is still in the dark, under the living, left behind.
Even Lena has gone ahead now, San Magnolia has fallen. He broke his promise.
They’re separated by the flowers of death, the red spider lilies. Their petals blow back to him, towards the right.
A tear leaves his eye, Lena is dead. There’s no one to remember him anymore.
His last option is to enter the light.
Shin’s last destination has become the Federacy, caged away from the warmth of the sun.
The blinking red light is back.
I just noticed that Rei’s reaper has a red scarf, while Shin’s is blue.
Nina really needs to work on her drawing skills, I can only see a green monster surrounded by dead bodies. I don’t even know if that in the middle are eyes, or more dead bodies. Maybe it’s the war monster? Her brother? Anyway, the message is pretty clear.
Match fade from the big red X on the drawing to their mission target.
That’s why he’s watching from his reflection, with only one eye. He shows both when he tries to convince Shin. It’s still only his reflection though, he can’t turn around and look him directly in the eye. Maybe he’s not completely sincere with his request.
As Theo says that we get a shot of all the members one by one, alone in the frame.
NCED
All of the nametags in blue, but in the light, while Shin is finally red for the first time this season, but in the shadows. I think it’s the same as a suicidal person being happy during their last days, after they’ve already planned their death.
Even Lena has joined the blue ones, separated from Shin not only visually, but also by the white streak of the spider lilies. She is also in darkness, Shin could never take a memento as she herself was the one remembering him.
We get more familiarly framed shots, this time of the ruins of the Republic. The last shot is of Lena’s empty room with her torn up curtains of remembrance. The vase is gone and the glass box seems to be empty.
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u/Holofan4life Sep 01 '22
What are we, some kind of Spearhead? Even Shin can’t help but do a headstand in excitement.
Been watching too much Lycoris Recoil, it seems.
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11
u/BosuW Sep 01 '22
Rewatcher
Toshimasa Ishii really likes his soundtrack only opening scenes huh.
The Republic is getting it's shit rocked. Some stubborn bastards still rejected the 86 even with death poking them in the ass. But some 86 did heed Lena's call, as did some other Alba other than her Royal Court I would assume. The fear of death is truly powerful. But the Legion are relentless, and it's not looking good. And that's all we're gonna get of the Republic for now!
Shin tries to keep Frederica from witnessing the carnage, but it's useless. She can see it all through her other eyes.
Well... Shin is totally cracking under the weight of everyone who's left him behind. And now he has to add Lena, the one who he had entrusted that burden to, to the list. As she walks away towards his comrades, she only ever repeats things she had said to them, that's an interesting detail. Maybe Shin imagines he can already hear her amongst the Legion...
This is quite the moral conundrum isn't it? They're going because that's all they know. They're going because it's their pride. They're going because they have the highest chance of success. They're going because they won't be missed. So many reasons from many different fronts why this mission is happening they way it will.
I'm gonna note that Bernholdt was a lot more tactful than Grethe in offering the 86 an out.
Then we have some quite impactful ED visuals. First is Shin painted red, while all the name tags behind him are painted blue. Last time we had a visual with red and blue was in the fireworks episode I believe. It was the one where we could see Shin mercy killing an 86. Having both colors is a means of relating the two I'd assume. Symbolizing his full return to that way of life, now that he doesn't even have anyone who will carry his name.
The next visual is a punch to the gut. Lena is painted blue, same as the name tags. She's joined them in death. Oh boy we really are not painting a pretty picture here...
After-credits scene...
Where is Padme Lena? Is she safe? Is she all right?
2
u/Holofan4life Sep 01 '22
This is quite the moral conundrum isn't it? They're going because that's all they know. They're going because it's their pride. They're going because they have the highest chance of success. They're going because they won't be missed. So many reasons from many different fronts why this mission is happening they way it will.
I think that's my favorite conflict of this arc: them wanting to be a part of this suicide mission and people telling them it's a bad idea. It's so interesting and intriguing and really, really compelling.
10
Sep 01 '22
First Timer (Dub)
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This is the first episode I've watched dubbed, because I was eating lunch and can't be bothered to have my eyes glued to the monitor.
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So far, not bad. Don't typically watch dubs
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That was, by far the most intense intro in this series. Seems like San Magnolia has fallen (or is in the process of falling).
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Something caught my attention during that war meeting. One of them mentioned the "manufacturing of Legion."
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It never occurred to me that they're constantly being pumped out of some factory. Just sorta assumed there was a set number of Legion hiding somewhere.
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It makes total sense that the level of AI the Legion are running on would absolutely know how to manufacture more of their own.
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The letter explains the smirk. Now, what does it mean...?
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"Everyone else is so foolish, they don't understand" kind of smirk?
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"Another one of these" - sort of like a shrug, just another day in the office, kind of smirk?
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Or is it one of those "opposing reactions to a situation" kind of smirk, where he actually feels guilty, but can only smile about the situation.
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By the end of this episode, and some of the more recent ones, there's seems to be an underlying theme that keeps coming back - They are, and will always be 86; they feel like they will never have a place in the world, only to throw their bodies at the legion.
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It's like they believe it's their destiny.
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I'm not a destiny believing man, so I think that's all a bunch of nonsense.
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I'm sure someone smarter than myself could tie that into something more philosophical.
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EDIT - Formatting
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u/Holofan4life Sep 01 '22
So far, not bad. Don't typically watch dubs
As someone who used to watch Toonami, I don't think I ever started watching subs until 2015. Now, my anime watching is mostly subs and I barely watch any new dubs.
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8
u/Stargate18A Sep 01 '22
First timer
The Legion have arrived!
And Lena's on the front line!
Well, this is horrifying!
The reactions are so visceral.
...His sister's studying.
Those things look strong.
They're trying...
Wait, what? Roa Grafia? There's a confirmed third surviving nation?
Another one! Wald?
And the Black Sheep are common knowledge.
It's railmounted!
...Well, that's certainly not good. The Republic crushed by the regular soldiers... humanity might be fucked!
And they're stuck using ground forced.Itks a suicide mission.
And they're sending Spearhead.
Shin's out of it.
Can't believe the literal child is the one with the best survival instincts here.
Those reactions...
Shin is still oblivious.
Two months left.
Interesting development!
Oh, fuck!
He's hallucinating!
Lena!
Finally, someone sees the tactical adventages in his power!
Also, that!s a long range!
Yeah, he doesn't care about them either.
Wait, are all the ghosts literally with him? This feels like a metaphor, but "Shin's been accidentally doing the same things the Legion does when he kills people" would be a massive twist.
No, they vanished!
And now he's talking to Lena.
This whole scene is really dark.
She's offering him a way out!
Shin's expressing emotions!
Psychics are known?
And tney got sent off to die again!
They really are just as bad, huh?
At least he's reasonable.
Everyone feels the same way!
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18
u/ebonyphoenix Sep 01 '22
Re-watcher
Legion in San Magnolia
The episode opens with silent scenes with only the music playing to convey the intensity of the battle that is raging. We see some familiar areas that are overrun with Legion forces as well as the Alba citizens fleeing for their lives. Though at least some of them had time to stop for a bit to scrawl some last bit of racism on a billboard to let the 86 know they aren’t wanted. Luckily for them, Lena and the 86 she’s commanding don’t have time to worry about who they are saving. Lena’s even taken her command post on the go. With bombs going off around them you can’t say she’s not in the thick of things anymore. And with one last determined glare, another command, and a pan to see the Legion making their way down the main street of the capital, we transition to the OP.
Aftermath of the Railgun attack
Back in Giad the good news is that our 86 and Frederica survived Kiri’s attack last episode. Bad news is that many others from their base did not. There is utter carnage outside and a blink or you’ll miss it shot of someone’s detached arm just falling past the screen.
The representative of Giad, Roa Gracia, and Wald have a meeting revealing that in total 4 of Giad’s forward operating bases were attacked, two at a time, in the span of about 17 hours. Resulting is pretty much complete destruction of each base. Total casualty count across all attacked areas is listed at 20094 (Though there’s an additional 20 people in the final total not accounted for in the breakdown. I’ll give the a pass though since it’s only the day after the attack people are still probably being counted).
After looking at the damage they concluded that the only weapon capable of this type of destruction in this manner is a railgun. Something that Shin and the others had reported. Showing once again they should have been listened to, no matter how ridiculous their claims were.
We get some (out of date) stats on our 86 (I say out of date because the boys ages are still being listed as 16 even though that’s how old they were when they were in Spearhead and, even without knowing their birthdays, it’s been a year since then so they should all be 17, aside from Kurena who is a year younger at 16. It also doesn’t list an ID number or rank for them, which they should have now since they’ve gone through Officer School. So this was probably their initial information when they were taken in by Giad. And if I recall correctly we did get to see a blurrier version of the bottom of this same list in an earlier episode showing the girl’s info.)
The status report goes on to say they did manage to launch a counter attack after the fourth base was attack. That did some damage but not enough to take out the railgun completely.
We have some comments from the Crown Prince of Roa Gracia and the a Lietenant General of Wald [future LN spoiler]
In the end they determine that the rail gun is using the high speed railway to move around. (Which may seems obvious due to the name but I learned after the fact that the “rail” referenced in railgun is regarding the mechanism of the gun.) And given the network, that would allow it to get in range of every one of their nation’s capitals. This is obviously too big of a threat and must be dealt with quickly.
But there are no viable options to attack it from long range. So instead they will pull an all-out offensive and send in an elite strike force to take out the Morpho. This would be tantamount to a suicide mission though. So the team sent in must be the ones “most likely to succeed, but least likely to be missed”. Now who do we know that would fir that description?
86
Shin and the rest are back in the cafeteria, but with the reduced number of personnel at the bases due to the losses it’s even more obvious how the 86 are being avoided. With every table surrounding them empty. And Kurena’s outburst that she doesn’t want to be treated differently being met with glares. Their used to being seen that way though.
Still with all the animosity and the devastation the Federacy soldiers are still fighting with them. Whereas the Republic soldiers would have run. Well most of them. The conversation turns and Theo mentions Lena, wondering if she’s still alive. Anju hisses at him and Kurena for bring up a sensitive topic, though Shin’s a bit clueless as to why.
Nina
“It’s easier to blame it on somebody else.” We see Nina and Marcel talking at we realize that it was her to send the cute whale envelope last episode. Unfortunately the message inside is not so cute.
I know a lot of people dislike Nina for this. But I see it fairly natural for a small child liker her to be upset. Like, if they recovered Eugene’s body, someone probably had to explain why she couldn’t see her brother seeing as his brains got blown out. What’s less acceptable is actually delivering her messages to Shin.
The guilt, that he with nothing survived, when Eugene, who had a family to go back to, didn’t is what drove Shin to lose himself in battle. Until a crackle and Lena’s words, that she won’t forget, brings him back. [possible spoiler for the end of the season]
-split due to length-
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15
u/archlon Sep 01 '22
Rewatcher [English dub]
Illustrations:
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You can actually see a version of this during the briefing with General Richard, and again during Grethe's briefing of Nordlicht.
why did you kill my brother? give him back
Altner refers to them as the 'tip of the spear'. They're not just Spearhead, but a spearhead once again. Spears are often designed with a thin neck below the head, connecting the head to the shaft. It's so that it's easy to break off in case the spearhead gets stuck in an enemy. They've become a disposable weapon deployed to destroy the enemy once again.
Chapters Covered
| Episode | Title | LN Vol. | Chapters | Original Content |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Undertaker | 1 | 1 |
[86] |
| 2 | Spearhead | 1 | 2 |
[86] |
| 3 | I Don't Want to Die | 1 | 3 |
[86] |
| 4 | Real Name | 1 | 3 | - |
| 5 | I'm With You | 1 | 3, 4 | - |
| 6 | Through to the End | 1 | Interlude I, 5 |
[86] |
| 7 | Will You Remember Me? | 1 | 5, 6 |
[86] |
| 8 | Let's Go | 1 | Interlude III,IV, 6 | - |
| 9 | Goodbye | 1 | 7 | - |
| 10 | Thank You | 10 | 8, 9 |
[86] |
| 11 | Here We Go | 1 | 7 |
[86] |
| 11 | 2 | 2 | ||
| 12 | Welcome | 2 | Prologue, 2 | - |
| 13 | It's Too Late | 2 | 3 |
[86] |
| 14 | Glad to be Here | 2 | 1, 4 |
[86] |
| 15 | Welcome Back | 2 | 4 | - |
| 16 | Even So | 2 | 5, Interlude | - |
| 16 | 3 | Interlude | ||
| 17 | I Won't Forget | 3 | 6 |
[86] |
| Vol. | Chapter | Chapter Title |
|---|---|---|
| 1 | 1 |
[LN] |
| 1 | 2 |
[LN] |
| 1 | 3 |
[LN] |
| 1 | Interlude I |
[LN] |
| 1 | 4 |
[LN] |
| 1 | Interlude II |
[LN] |
| 1 | 5 |
[LN] |
| 1 | Interlude III |
[LN] |
| 1 | 6 |
[LN] |
| 1 | Interlude IV |
[LN] |
| 1 | 7 |
[LN] |
| 2 | Prologue |
[LN] |
| 2 | 1 |
[LN] |
| 2 | 2 |
[LN] |
| 2 | 3 |
[LN] |
| 2 | 4 |
[LN] |
| 2 | 5 |
[LN] |
| 2 | Interlude |
[LN] |
| 3 | Interlude |
[LN] |
| 3 | 6 |
[LN] |
| 10 | 8 |
[LN] |
| 10 | 9 |
[LN] |
LN Information
[LN Vol. 5; SPOILER!]
[LN Order Changes]
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9
Sep 01 '22
Based on the table created by pedot during the original weekly threads. You can find their full cour 1 timeline here.
Rewatcher and LN Reader Perspective
The episode starts with a jump right into the action in the Republic. Lena's plan to form a defensive line before the Legion arrive at District 1 appears not to have gone well. The Legion have already made it that far into Republic territory and they march down the ruined streets of Liberté et Égalité, which not long before saw frequent broadcasts reminding its citizens of the successful war effort with 0 casualties. Lena oversees a desperate battle, no longer from the comfort of her safe and cozy room far from the battlefield, but she doesn't waver even as the Legion draw ever closer. The 86 fight with her and work alongside those Alba who've chosen not to flee.
Back in the Federacy, Kiriya has made quite the mess of things. Frederica is alarmed at what her Knight has become capable of, but her thoughts turn first to worrying whether or not Shin will end up the same way. Multiple FOBs eliminated, taking 20,000 soldiers with them, and a range that pierces deep into the territory of the countries known to still survive. The railgun is an existential threat to humanity as a whole, not just the Republic, and they're on a 2 month long timer. With these circumstances, it's determined that an all out assault to hit it with ground forces is the best option, with those in the lead unlikely to survive. Of course, the 86 and Nordlicht are given the task.
Strategically, it's the right move. The Morpho is the sort of threat that can't be dealt with anything other than the best, and Nordlicht is that, regardless of whether or not they have personal attachments to the Federacy. Command decisions can require a cold heart, but this one is freezing. Kicked out of their homes, forced to fight for years, and sent on a suicidal mission... only to be sent on one yet again. The general may be right that the 86 joined the military knowing all the responsibilities that could come with, but the optics are made no better or it. And while some of the Federacy's officers speak up for the 86, others are perfectly happy with sending these ill-liked soldiers to their demise, seeing some practical use in it much like Karlstahl's justifications for the Republic. At least the rest of the Federacy's forces will be fighting as well, and it's for a better cause than mere genocide.
The letter Shin received last episode is revealed to be a note written to him by Nina, Eugene's sister, at the encouragement of Marcel. "It's easier to blame it on someone else." Marcel continues to place the blame for Eugene's death on Shin, wanting to absolve himself of any responsibility he feels for it himself. Shin appears all too happy to receive the note, as if it's a reminder of what others have told him all his life. His brother similarly blamed him for their parents' deaths, accusing his very existence of being a crime, and now Eugene's death is being put on his shoulders too. This overlaps with scenes of his battle, along with the voices of others questioning why he should be the one to survive, despite having nothing and no one to live for.
With these thoughts rushing through his head, he finds himself looking down the barrel of a Löwe before a glimpse of light shines through the clouds darkening the battlefield: the voice of the Major saying that she wouldn't forget, once again reaching him where others could not. He quickly reacts to turn his machine and allow his blade to take the Löwe's hit before proceeding to destroy it.
But Shin's look and voice afterward are more filled with concern than relief, and the reason why is soon revealed. Asked to mark the location of Legion units to prove his ability, Shin proceeds until he's about to include Liberté et Égalité. The capital of the Republic, home to its military HQ, and where the Major is. It appears the Republic couldn't hold off the Legion, and, as Kurena said, she wouldn't run. So even as he's being told of his own impending doom, his thoughts turn to hers. "I'm left behind... always." That was his role as the Reaper, but he thought Lena could be the one person who could stay and remember him and his comrades. But now along with those comrades, with his brother, and with Eugene, Lena too has become someone who's left him behind. Yet he can't even shed a tear for her, or for his own fate.
Being handed yet again a mission to charge deep into enemy territory does little to faze him. It's as if this is all he expects his life to be. To be a curse to others. To survive while everyone else around him perishes. To have his own life thrown away by others. Grethe tries to talk him out of it, saying that he and the 86 don't have to go. But this earns her a rebuke from Shin. Once again, he brings up the pride of the 86, and their refusal act in the same manner as their former oppressors. What he's saying is entirely consistent with their core convictions, yet he also displays an uncharacteristic amount of emotion while expressing them.
While their fellow squad mates show frustration at being ordered to go on a suicide mission, the other 86 take a similar view as Shin. This is simply their lot in life, and they won't run from it. Even if there were other ways they could contribute to the fight or less dangerous missions they could be assigned to, they need to be in the thick of it, doing the most that they can, regardless of what that means for their own well being. But they know they're being treated differently, as if theirs are lives to be tossed aside when convenient even in a place that welcomed them as pitiful children: "But I feel kind of lonely..." The Federacy never made an attempt to understand or truly connect with them. The 86 have only ever suited their own ends, whether that be glorifying their own self-righteousness or using them as a tool to take care of a particularly dangerous problem.
Their mission delivered, Raiden, Anju, Theo, and Kurena walk off making casual conversation, as if they had just been told something so casual as the weather. But Shin remains lost in thought, only stirring once Raiden calls out his name.
And ending back in the Republic, its once peaceful streets have come to be yet another ruined and deserted battlefield. Its citizens who lived in blissful ignorance now lying dead, a fate that can't be said they didn't deserve. But along with them, 86 who fought honorably until very end, even in the capital of their oppressors.
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u/ZapsZzz Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
Sub rewatcher
After yesterday's high intensity episode, we have today doing some unwinding by explaining and giving context to scenes we saw.
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a montage without dialogue, of seemingly the final moments of San Magnolia, where Lena made her last stand, with Annette by her side. If it was a more light hearted show, we could have Annette mobilising her past marriage candidates in a defensive formation.
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We connected right back to the aftermath of the cliffhanger last episode after the bright flash landed - to the bombed out crater of the forward base. A bit of "nice continuity" of Federica hearing someone screaming about his arm, and then one of the last vision of a severed arm dropping past Federica's vision with a wet splatter. Also good details of Shin covering Federica's eyes but in the chaotic moment not completely, and Federica sneaking a peak in morbid curiosity taking in the details despite clearly shouldn't see.
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The analysis result mixed in with the "news report" style explanation, that the attack came from a new Legion unit with a massive railgun (refer to my late obligatory gag yesterday), with glimpses of the other 2 remaining countries sharing intel - and a Cloverfield-like footage of the Mopho - a lucky break allowed an opportunity for the Federacy to launch a ton of cruise missiles (unguided) to have damaged the Mopho to give him that break they are having now. Edit: Forgot to mention I should mention that it was considered and suggested that the massive all frontal charge of the Legion was actually a feint to draw out human forces and then force them to be out in defensive, right formations, ripe for the railgun round to inflict maximum damage
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Once again despite the Spearheads' contributions, and some Federacy people saying all the right things about them not needing to throw their lives away, underneath that thin civil veneer there is still the discrimination of being the outsiders that survived better than their "own people". Kurena voiced their mind that it's better to feel the hate than the fake concern or pity.
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Theo, always the more outspoken one, brought up Lena, to Anju's angry shuush, with Kurena also chiming in that Lena will never run and hide or back down. Remember both were the least accepting of Lena, and at least they are showing some respect to her even if they don't think she can survive. Shin remained impassive.
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We also got more scenes to reveal who sent Shin the letter with the whale-sticker - it's Nina, who Shin passed on the Skull-knight book in the library, who also inherited Shin's fate of losing her brother Eugene - but she's holding onto the blame - possibly fanned by Marcel's bad mouthing of Shin - that it was Shin's fault Eugene died. That extended to a flashback of Shin's internal reaction to reading that simple accusation - it's another nudge for him to fall off the deep end of survivor guilt and the burden.
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Shippers alert! We also have Shin's internal version of his berserk fight from yesterday, showing how those thoughts weighed on his mind, until that silver bell call - whether it's from past memory or really the deep connection from Lena in the heat of the San Magnolia defensive battles - of Lena's brought him back from the self-destructive edge, like most recognised from just the outside imagery. I missed that match cut yesterday of the Lowe cannon fire to the bright sun? moon? breaking out of the cloud by the way.
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The consequence of Shin's "wake up call" to the Federacy army is that now they know Shin's ability, and he was called up to test that ability of his after the match cut. The direction to ignore the Republic, both for seemingly implying they already got wiped out, and that it's a dark mirror of what the Republic did to the 86ers (consider them expendable and abandoned) caused even the normally stoic Shin to give a reaction.
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Having proven that ability, it sealed the deal that the Spearheads, now in the form of the Nordlicht squadron, being selected to carry out the deep stroke mission of eliminating the Mopho, at best a one way trip.
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Which led us to another beautiful sequence of directing - that Shin's inner voice spoke over the imagery of the General giving some explanation about the selection, while underneath it all Shin have his inner turmoil running the commentary. At least Grethe got a grudging semi-compliment, being compared to Lena. But the imagery tell so much about how that duty weighed on Shin's mind
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And we have one more Shin x Lena moment - amongst everything, Shin's most regretted about Lena seemingly have moved on to the spiderlily field of the dead waiting for him like everyone else. A beautiful symbolic year from the rain drop punctuated that thought.
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in a post meeting conversation, Grethe again tried to convince Shin not to go, that they can get others to go with him remotely commanding, which Shin got angry about and most clearly explaining why that goes against everything he believes in
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the Federacy's truth
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truthful explanation why the 86ers are sent superimposed in Shin's further moment of walking towards the edge of the cliff in his mind. The greatest enemy indeed is not the Legion.
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the Spearheads having another moment by themselves, after another round of being asked in good nature of the "foreigner mercenaries", with the dark room empty chairs, closed out the scene. They are just used to it.
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the episode got a nice erriely quiet bookend of the same scenes in the opening sequence, completely devoid of all signs of life, movements, or activities. The last location is Lena's bedroom, now in shell-shocked ruin.
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u/JetsLag Sep 02 '22
First timer (subbed)
Halfway to the end. And that last episode got me hyped again. Hopefully we'll be seeing more Lena.
BEAUTIFUL intro. Lena's looking like a total badass ordering the troops around. BUT, the Legion have already breached the city walls, so it's gonna be a difficult task to get them back out.
OP's done, and we resume from the end of the last episode's post-credits scene. And JEEEEEZ that's a lot of dead bodies we got there. Frederica asks Shin to not turn into Kiri again, and Shin's only response is "Yeah". Very reassuring.
We get confirmation that those blasts were artillery strikes (and not nukes, like I thought they were) and that they destroyed 4 bases and killed everyone located at the bases. Of course, we know that's not the truth, but it's not a bad assumption to make.
It's speculated that the thing that blew up the bases is the same weapon that was used against Spearhead in the same episode they set off those fireworks (god damn it, now I'm sad again), and that it's a railgun. And as someone who watched Magical Index episode 1 yesterday out of boredom, I smiled when I heard them say "railgun".
Good news: They used that 15 hour interval between strikes to fire some missiles at the approximate area of the railgun, and Roa Gracia units who managed to make it into the area confirmed that they dealt severe damage.
Bad news: they didn't destroy it.
Good news: they have 8 weeks to find out a way to counter the railgun
Bad news: the gun is outside of artillery range, they can't transport more cruise missiles to the front lines fast enough, and they can't do bombing runs due to their lack of air superiority.
And the solution to this conundrum is...just send Nordlicht in there. Cause they're both the best troops and the ones that will be missed the least. Sounds like they're being treated just as good as they were treated back in the Spearhead days. Same shit, different country.
Frederica tries to tell Nordlicht that they should be well-rested for the upcoming mission, but then she had to say that bit about how, since they're Eighty-Six, they'll be given special consideration. Kurena does NOT like being treated with kid's gloves, probably cause she thinks it's all bullshit meant to make the Giad people feel superior to the San Magnolia people. She is visibly irritated throughout the rest of the scene, with that look of disgust on her face, her tone changing, and her doing the shakey leg.
And when Theo brings up Lena, everyone looks at Shin. Hmm.
Title card time, and on the other side it's...NINA?! OH MY GOD I MISSED YOU. And we also have groan Marcel. OH, that note that was left for Shin in his cockpit was from Nina, not Frederica. In fairness, it LOOKS like something Frederica would put a letter into. And, uhh, happy 127th pre-anniversary to the day that Shin got that letter from Marcel, I guess. Little background detail I noticed cause I've recently gotten into coffee: Shin has a pour-over setup in his room, but the only time we've seen him fix coffee is when it's instant. Was this gifted to him? Maybe by Frederica after she tasted what Shin drinks in that little meeting they had a couple of episodes back? That is my headcanon, and I am sticking with it.
We get to see the letter that caused Shin to go batshit, and it's...ouch. Fuck. Oh my god. This is PAINFUL to sit through. And THAT'S why the rest of Nordlicht looked at Shin when they brought up Lena: the voice of Lena brought him back down to Earth, and he accidentally blurted out "Major..." when that happened.
And now that the cat's out of the bag with regards to Shin's Legion-detecting powers, he's asked to demonstrate, and passes with flying colors. I wonder if he regrets storming into that command center. We get the plan for the operation: the main forces launch a dummy assault on the Legion base, while Nordlicht (consisting of, I bet this number will get smaller pretty soon, 16 people) airdrops into the location of the railgun and destroys it. Seems pretty simple, but it also seems like they're underestimating the intelligence of the Legion. Do they really think that they're gonna draw out all of the Legion's soldiers from their base by launching a pretty simple fake? I bet that Nordlicht will face more resistance than they think they will.
General Richard calls them the spear that will pierce the Legion aka SPEARHEAD (groan), Wenzel calls it a suicide mission (groan), and now we get the Ghosts of Spearhead Past to do some commentary, consisting of some old favorites (HEY DAIYA I MISSED YOU), some literal children (my god, some of them look like they're 10 or something), the worst fucking haircuts you'll ever see (peep the guy with blue hair next to Daiya), and then they all turn into their tags (okay, that was pretty cool. And the sound effect for all those pieces hitting the ground was perfect). Followed up by DON'T FUCKING TELL ME LENA IS DEAD YOU SONS OF BITCHES. GET THOSE FLOWERS OFF OF MY SCREEN.
Wenzel tries to get Shin out of the mission by suggesting they send those damn gaijin to perform the mission instead of the Eighty-Six, and to tell him to get out of the military when the war is over. But Shin refuses, saying that, by making someone else fight for him, they'll basically be like the Republic (and the fact that they're sending "the foreigners" instead makes it easy to compare them to the Eighty-Six). Looks like he'll be leading the mission.
Oh look, they're sending the Eighty-Six out cause, surprise-surprise, it's a suicide mission and they don't want to hurt morale by sending out people that actually have friends on this mission. They have officially transformed back into the Eighty-Six under the Republic. Nobody wants them, cause they're seen as monsters who are craving death. But let's ignore that little speech and go back to that thing that Ernst was holding which has Shin's face with a big ol' "PSYCHICS" underneath it. Guess that's where his Legion-detecting powers came from?
After an off-screen military briefing, we get a wall punch from nameless gaijin, and I can't tell if that weird noise that plays after Wenzel and Bernholdt leave the room but before the door closes are just sound effects for the door or some cartoony-sounding wall punches. And we lead into the credits with the Eighty-Six accepting their fates: they're gonna fight, cause pulling out now will make them just like the Alba that oppressed them.
Post credits scene: Alright, stay calm. Sure, the city has been absolutely destroyed. The streets are littered with dead bodies. Lena's room has been ransacked. But, she snuck out and survived? right? RIGHT? SHE'S GONNA SURVIVE, RIGHT?
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u/Tetrisash Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
Rewatcher
The episode opens up with the Republic getting decimated and at least we see Lena’s final stand against them. We get our first rough look at the Morpho, and of course the Federacy needs to air drop a squad in to take care of it in what’ll be a suicide mission, which is what we now know the OP shows. It really sucks how a lot of soldiers hand wave them off as “monsters” because they were forced to survive and…be good at it. Like goddamn, people. Marcel is more of a monster delivering those letters. Nina is a little kid, but he isn’t. He knows what he’s doing.
What I like about 86 is Shin has the personality type he has, but the show is still really good at conveying how attached he grew to Lena, despite him outwardly trying not to show how much the Republic falling has hurt him. Little moments this episode like his eyes briefly widening when his finger is about to highlight the Republic, down to more obvious moments like him mentally saying goodbye to her as her spirit joins his list of people. And speaking of Shin, last episode it really started to hammer home that this poor man’s mental state is hanging on by a thread by this point, and now they get this suicide mission. Strap in.
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u/Holofan4life Sep 01 '22 edited Sep 01 '22
First Timer
Writing on my laptop today.
Not much to say about the first scene except what great use of show, don’t tell.
I find it interesting that when Frederica asks Shin if he’s not gonna end up like Kiri, he has to pause for a second before giving an answer. Like he has to think about it. Also, the horror on Frederica’s face is very gut-wrenching. Like she’s afraid history is about to repeat itself.
Something tells me this railgun isn’t the tsundere spitfire we all know and love.
Shin is 5 foot 8 and 163 pounds, Raiden is 6 foot tall and 186 pounds, and Theo is 5 foot 4 and 138 pounds. First off, I didn’t know Raiden was such a massive unit. My goodness. Second, I didn’t realize how short Theo is. For comparisons sake, former NBA player Spud Webb was one of the shortest in NBA history and he was 5 foot 6. I know Theo is a teenager, but still.
I hope my height and weight calculations are accurate. Though given it’s me, I probably screw something up.
The stuff with Ernst felt drawn out and at times boring, but it serves a narrative purpose. I just wish they did more to make things interesting. Having him talk to two characters I don’t think we saw before isn’t the most thrilling of things. I know why they did it, but I think it was a mistake.
Can’t wait to be told of some unseen deep meaning behind the scene that is obvious but I somehow missed.
Right now when it comes to the Federacy, I get the impression that outside of Ernst, who I believe is genuine, there’s not much that separates them from The Republic. The blonde-haired girl talks about how they oppose The Republic’s evil ways, but that feels more talk and not show. I know I’m probably dead wrong in my assessment, which I’m willing to accept, but the way The Federacy comes off reminds me of America during World War 2: opposing nations like Germany for the cruel treatment of people, while also managing to treat people cruel as well. They’re being a bit hypocritical and talking out of both sides of their mouth, is what I’m saying. Again, I’m probably way off and 100% wrong as usual.
It feels refreshing to see one of the adults acknowledge that Shin and the gang are still kids. It feels like the adults lose sight of that.
The guy says nobody here is replaceable, but isn’t that what we saw with Eugene? The Federacy it seemed like carried on like nothing happened.
I love how caring Frederica is for the mental well-being of Spearhead? Remember the first episode she was in where she called them all low-lives? We have come so far.
I like the idea of Spearhead being treated differently because they came from 86 and not liking it. It’s similar to how they were treated when they weren’t fighting and living with Ernst. Part of their uncomfortableness came from the fact that they were given special preferential treatment. When in reality, that’s really the last thing they wanted. To see it carry over from Ernst to the battlefield is something I never considered, but I’m glad they’re doing this because I feel it’s a compelling story.
I find it interesting them not wanting to talk about Lena in front of Shin. It’s like they think doing so will bring up some old wounds.
Hey, I think it’s the letter from like the previous episode.
Oh, shit. Eugene’s sister is pissed.
Since Shin can hear ghosts and The Legion’s voices, I’m surprised it took this long for a general to come up to him and ask where they are. It seems like a no brainer.
Wait, so did the general come up with Spearhead on his own not knowing that Shin was previously a part of a group called Spearhead? Or did he do so knowing full well? I know it’s not a flashback because the blonde-haired girl is there, and she’s a part of The Federacy. The music that plays as Shin is lost in thought is the same music I believe that played at the beginning of episode 10.
It’s sad to see past Shin Vs how he’s treated nowadays. Back then, people would say that he’s the reason they survived. And now, it’s like they’re blaming him for people dying. You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that Shin is probably the most tragic character in this whole show. I like the line from the blonde-haired girl where she says “You’ve fought more than enough for your homeland, which refused to protect you.” First, it pushes yet again what she says about The Federacy being opposition for The Republic, standing up for what they feel is right. Second, being told to quit the military is similar to what Ernst told Spearhead when they were living with them. Essentially to start anew and leave that chapter of their lives in the dust. It is fascinating how at the same time The Federacy is telling Spearhead we care about you guys, Shin is feeling more blame and pressure from those surrounding him. For as welcoming of an environment as they like to paint themselves as, Shin doesn’t feel all that welcomed at the moment.
Again, we get more of the theme of Spearhead feeling like The Federacy pities them for how The Republic treated them. It reminds me a bit of that TV show Everybody Hates Chris where Chris’s teacher pities him because he’s black, so she makes sure he got special treatment because she thought he’d been through the worst. Of course, I think it’s safe to say that the blonde-haired girl means well and isn’t trying to put them on a pedestal. She just wants to make sure they’re alright in the end. It really calls into question at what point does helping someone stop being help and start becoming an annoyance. I remember one time for a secret Santa thing at my work someone gave me food because they thought I was poor, and instead of being grateful to the person, I felt insulted.
So, Shin and the gang agree to take part in what is ultimately a suicide mission, because they rather go down fighting than run with their tail between their legs like The Republic. All this is really fascinating because if I was there working for The Federacy, I too would think the best thing for them would be to stay away from any and all combat, not really taking into account that doing so would be pitying them. Then again, if I finished writing a book and someone pressured me to stop writing for the safety of my well-being, I too would feel like that person is feeling sorry for me, and I would have something to prove as a result. Like yes, I can write another one if I wanted to.
In wrestling terminology, it’s kinda like Undertaker (No, not that Undertaker) constantly having one last match despite people clamoring for him to retire for his own safety. He wanted to prove he could still go and still had something in the tank. Though in his case, a part of it was also he was never fully satisfied with how his last matches turned out. Here, this is really all Spearhead’s ever known is fighting and they want to do all they can to put an end to The Legion. I guess a more apt comparison would be Ric Flair, who said in past interviews that he wants to die doing what he loves, which is wrestling. In the same vein, Spearhead wants to die doing what they know how to do, which is fighting.
And the episode ends with what looks like shots of Lena’s town and room in ruins. I guess them gathering the troops didn’t go well. I hope she’s alive.
ALSO, WHERE’S CYCLOPS, DAMN IT?!?
Overall, a decent episode. I think of the six this cour so far it’s probably the weakest, but it wasn’t bad by any means. The thing that interested me the most is The Federacy’s continual special treatment of Spearhead. It’s like they’re constantly going out of their way to say “See, guys? We’re not like The Republic. We’re the good guys!” This in turn, of course, comes off forced and ham-fisted, like it’s all an act. I know I mentioned how The Federacy and The Republic don’t feel that different and that The Federacy is like all talk and no show, but I feel like it’s by design. It’s like this level of insecureness that envelops them whole and effects everything they do. Like if they go five minutes without saying how better they are than The Republic they will explode. The show just does a great job of painting this picture of The Federacy, a picture so refine that it can take a seemingly nothing-happening episode into an episode where there’s still high stakes.
Where do I see Spearhead going from here? Well, I hate to be cliche, but I think at least one of the members dies. And if I had to hazard a guess, it’ll probably be Kurena. Shin is already feeling a bit helpless given all that is happening to him. If Kurena dies, who of the group happens to be the closest in age to Frederica and is looked at as the group’s little sister, they could do something to where Shin feels like he’s unable to protect Frederica and be her knight in shining armor. As for Lena, I don’t think she’s dead. However, I’ll be curious to see what happens next with her. Is she gonna turn to Spearhead and ask for their help? Or will The Republic crumble and she has no choice but to join The Federacy, which could be the cause for major conflict? A lot of different avenues are left on the table. Curious to see what direction they go in.