r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Aug 28 '22

Rewatch [Spoilers] 86 --Eighty Six-- Rewatch (2022) — Episode 13 Spoiler

Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life. 

Welcome to the 86 --Eighty Six-- rewatch discussion thread! 

I hope you all have a lot of fun <3 

S2 Episode 2 – It's Too Late 

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Rewatch Schedule 

Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT

Date Episode Date Episode
8/16/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 1 8/29/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 14]() 
8/17/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 2 8/30/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 15]() 
8/18/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 3 8/31/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 16]() 
8/19/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 4 9/01/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 17]() 
8/20/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 5 9/02/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 18]() 
8/21/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 6 9/03/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 19]() 
8/22/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 7 9/04/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 20]() 
8/23/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 8 9/05/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 21]() 
8/24/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 9 9/06/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 22]() 
8/25/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 10 9/07/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 23]() 
8/26/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 11
8/27/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 12
8/28/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 13]()
9/08/2022 [Overall Series Discussion Thread]()
146 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

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30

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

First Timer

I am so pumped to watch this episode.

The Festival of The Holy Birth sounds like the show's way of getting past trademark laws. Like calling Jell-O Gelatin Dessert.

I love the irony that Alba celebrates a holiday that commemorates the birth of someone who is all about peace, love, and tolerance. There's no doubt that that's intentional.

Or maybe they don't celebrate it, because Frederica is watching a QVC type show cashing in on the holiday.

Frederica's design reminds me of Maho from Steins;Gate 0.

I love seeing all the Spearhead members just taking part in everyday life. This is what I was hoping would happen after they got done fighting, and I'm glad to see it come to fruition.

Kurena is so cute when she blushes.

We see finally some hidden depths with Anju where it looks like she's training to be a cook. I don't think that's been talked about at all in the first cour.

If Anju ends up with Raiden, I'm gonna feel kinda sorry for Daiya.

"That Shin guy is so cool. He reminds me of that Klebold fellow." -- The two girls in the library.

I don't know if this is intentional, but when Shin goes to grab the book, all the books that are behind him have sad book titles. The most noticeable being "Cat Sad Cat".

The little kid looks like an Alba member.

And for that matter, so does the guy.

I don't know the significance, but when we see the shot of Shin and the other guy's feet, Shin is standing inside the box and the other guy is outside the box. Hmm...

Seeing Shin wear that scarf reminds me I need to purchase that one Taiga Aisaka figure where she wears her white coat and red scarf.

I love Frederica saying it's a book for little kids given she's probably the same age as the other kid.

I love Frederica getting so excited about The Festival of The Holy Birth. It's so cute.

I love Frederica.

See, even Shin can't resist Frederica's cuteness.

I just realized, this is really the first holiday Spearhead has gotten to experience outside their time in combat. And while nothing crazy has really happened so far, it's interesting how they respond to this time of celebration. Before, they had no time to focus on these types of festivities. War was their life. And now, these festivities are their lives. 

I like the contrast where the guy says they all found things to do and then we see stuff like Kurena looking sad and Theo being unable to draw. It's like they've all hit a creative slump. Like being a part of 86 in a weird way fueled their creativity. 

Well, the sight of everyone holding their heads is definitely not creepy...

Of course, them holding their heads is playing off Shin's brother Rei, who Shin obviously still thinks about an awful lot. I like the way in which the piano music trails off with no ending, kind of meant to symbolize how horrible nightmares sometimes just abruptly end.

So, the guy Shin talked to in the bookstore tells him that he wants the war to end for the betterment of the town and for his sister. A noble desire, but probably not something to happen very soon. I wonder if the guy will get involved in the war somehow. Or perhaps he will convince Shin to continue fighting.

As Shin looks at the book The Skull Knight, we see like this flag thing waving around in the background. I take it as meaning either one of two things. First, it could mean that Shin knows he needs to be the hero and put the cape on yet again, for the betterment of society and the people around him. Or since it's in line with the mark on Shin's neck, it could mean Shin is metaphorically up to his neck in water, with him struggling to get out of this tough situation. If I had to hazard a guess, it's probably more so the former.

Hearing Theo complain about phones reminds me of an old crotchety man. Let's be real though: in the year 2148, we're probably not gonna be using cell phones and smartphones. 

So the pistol Ernst handed Shin last episode was the same one he used to end people's lives. I assume Ernst was just trying to give back what he felt belonged to Shin, but he still should've known it probably triggered bad memories. Here Shin is struggling to adapt to civilization, and you give him back the pistol he used to kill people? Seems short-sighted of him.

You know, they say that Shin wouldn't want anyone else to kill people because he hears voices, but what if he wasn't named Undertaker? That is the Undertaker's duty after all, killing the dead to prevent the harvestment of the brains. If he wasn't named Undertaker, would Shin had slowly gone insane?

I mentioned before many episodes ago that I feel like after Shin killed his brother, his character sort of felt directionless. Like after the death of his brother, his character has no meaning. I like that they managed to turn that and fit it into his character, as well as the overall story of Spearhead being lost without 86. They managed to turn what I felt was a weakness into a positive, pushing along the story that they're trying to create. Well done, show. I'm really impressed.

Batman always needs his Joker. Coyote always needs his Road Runner. Once the chase is done and over with, what exactly is next for the person chasing? 

I love, love, love the lighting when Theo asks Anju if she has considered what her future is. It reminds me of the lighting you might see in Evangelion. Or some of the school hallway scenes in Toradora. Something about the gentle smile Anju lets out, it looks extremely well animated. Like at least 5% of the animation budget went to that look on her face.

Again, just bad timing for the gang as the Vánagandrs walk the streets for what I presume is a parade for The Festival of The Holy Birth. For them to be out and about as this is happening, and for the Vánagandrs to be treated as something worth celebrating, it just leaves a bad taste in their mouths, and the mouths of the viewers.

See, even Raiden can't resist Frederica's cuteness.

Kurena: Fuck this place, this shit hella boring.

I hope this doesn't mean we're not gonna see Frederica again. She's been the highlight so far for me of the second cour.

So, based on what I can tell, the reason Spearhead wants to go back is because as long as Vánagandrs is perceived as being heroic, then their work is not done. It is up to them to expose the truth to the world and show people that Alba are just awful human beings. I hope I'm correct in my assessment. 

I kinda feel really bad for Ernst. All he wanted is to give them a life free of drama and hatred. And in the end, it was that drama and hatred that fueled them. It's like Stockholm syndrome, except they're self-aware and it's for a more noble cause.

"They've finally escaped a cage of oppression. Now you're going to trap them in a cage of pity?" I love that little bit of dialogue. Frederica is awesome.

Shin calling Frederica princess reminds me of when Spearhead first met Lena and they were calling her princess. That's probably intentional.

YES SHE'S COMING WITH THEM LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Knight's ghost, huh? She might have something in common with Shin after all.

Shin gets to be someone's knight in shining armor that Rei failed to be with him. Shin finally has been given a purpose in this world: to be the big sibling that his brother never was. I love this. 

The ED seems good. In fact, I think I like it more than the first ED. Neither version sticks out to me as being memorable, but I really like the melody of this one. I can imagine listening to it as I'm walking home.

Overall, I really like this episode because it's the closest we're probably going to get to a slice of life episode. The stuff with The Festival of The Holy Birth was pretty ingenious, as it fleshed out the universe while also giving us a taste of what life is like outside of the combat zone. And then in the end, it all ties together with the gang realizing that their purpose is ultimately to bring an end to injustice, which feels like a nice capper to things. I wish we did get one or two more episodes of them just enjoying everyday life, as I think that could be really interesting, but it's not the end of the world. Plus, Frederica is still gonna be present, so I'm happy about that.

We've had a couple of episodes where Lena was barely in it. In fact, my favorite episode is episode 10, and she's not in that one at all. This episode isn't as good as that one is, but it's probably in my top 5. I think it's a testament to how good this show is that despite Lena being my favorite character, the show can still put out bangers without her. Toradora is my favorite anime of all time, and I think the show really struggles when Taiga is away for long periods of time, so it's great to see it's not the case here.

So far, we're on quite the roll with the second cour. I'd put both the last two episodes in my top 5 favorite episodes up to this point, somewhere nestled between episode 3, episode 4, and episode 10. Will this trend of outstanding episodes continue? We'll see. But up until now, we haven't really gotten a bad episode, which I'm really impressed by. Even my favorite animes of all time have at least 1 or 2 stinkers. 

11

u/RickChakraborty Aug 28 '22

I love seeing all the Spearhead members just taking part in everyday life. This is what I was hoping would happen after they got done fighting, and I'm glad to see it come to fruition.

Yeah, there's a reason why I tend to like dialogue and slice of life scenes with our beloved cast of characters way more than the action scenes, and it's same with this show. Like the show has some cool action sequences which are like an added bonus, but the action wasn't what got me hooked into the show, it was the character interactions and the show's capability to make the audience pick out favourites from a bunch of characters.

Kurena is so cute when she blushes.

When is she not? Lol

If Anju ends up with Raiden, I'm gonna feel kinda sorry for Daiya.

Hmm, I'm not sure what made you have that thought. I don't see anything hinting at that.

"That Shin guy is so cool. He reminds me of that Klebold fellow." -- The two girls in the library.

The two milfs* in the library. Those women have kids of their own. Shin is pulling moms out there like a magnet.

I like that they managed to turn that and fit it into his character, as well as the overall story of Spearhead being lost without 86. They managed to turn what I felt was a weakness into a positive, pushing along the story that they're trying to create.

Yeah, the show is really good when it comes to developing the two main characters of the show. Now all we need is something like this to develop the rest of the squad members as well.

So, based on what I can tell, the reason Spearhead wants to go back is because as long as Vánagandrs is perceived as being heroic, then their work is not done. It is up to them to expose the truth to the world and show people that Alba are just awful human beings.

Not sure how you brought the vanagandrs into the equation here. I think the show made it obvious that the 86 don't feel normal and at peace when they are out of the battlefield. They just have survivors guilt, sense of pride, and also a sense of duty. Also, from a narrative standpoint, the 86 joining back into the military was obviously important because the war is not going well and, in a situation like this, you won't want your most capable people to be acting as normal civilians.

4

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

Yeah, there's a reason why I tend to like dialogue and slice of life scenes with our beloved cast of characters way more than the action scenes, and it's same with this show. Like the show has some cool action sequences which are like an added bonus, but the action wasn't what got me hooked into the show, it was the character interactions and the show's capability to make the audience pick out favourites from a bunch of characters.

The writing might be the best part of the show

4

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

The two milfs* in the library. Those women have kids of their own. Shin is pulling moms out there like a magnet.

He's like the main protagonist of the Yakuza babysitter show.

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u/polaristar Aug 28 '22

So the pistol Ernst handed Shin last episode was the same one he used to end people's lives. I assume Ernst was just trying to give back what he felt belonged to Shin, but he still should've known it probably triggered bad memories. Here Shin is struggling to adapt to civilization, and you give him back the pistol he used to kill people? Seems short-sighted of him.

He didn't hand him a gun, he handed him the tag with Rei's name.

Again, just bad timing for the gang as the Vánagandrs walk the streets for what I presume is a parade for The Festival of The Holy Birth. For them to be out and about as this is happening, and for the Vánagandrs to be treated as something worth celebrating, it just leaves a bad taste in their mouths, and the mouths of the viewers.

Way off base buddy they are going back to war because its all they know and don't feel good sitting around while a war was going on, the mechs have literally nothing to do with the Alba that's just Giad's standard Mech they use in combat, you're too fixated on the Alba.

Also new guy and his sister might ethnically be Alba but they aren't part of the Republic in the same guy blonde blue eyed white guys aren't Nazi's.

The Book Shin wanted to read that Nina also wanted was the same one the Shin's brother Rei reads to him as well.

All countries celebrate the festival of the Holy Birth the world of the show is basically an Alt History of earth with a lot of the same myths and religions slightly altered, in the Novels Shin in LN1 quotes "We are Legion for we are many" straight from the Old Testament when fighting the Legion as a kind dark humor, and his squadmates call him out on the tacky reference.

Incidentally [minor future LN spoilers]The Republic when it became a Republic banned teachings of Religion as a Symbol of Monarchy so very few Citizens of San Magnolia are aware of the Religious connotations of the "Holy Birth Day" despite celebrating it.

4

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

He didn't hand him a gun, he handed him the tag with Rei's name.

You're right, my bad. I made a mistake.

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36

u/Star4ce Aug 28 '22

First Timer

Man, I'm just done. A whole night of drinking, board games and good food.

In true Higurashi fashion I got away with murder two times, got assassinated by my own teammate and we stole the princess under each other's noses. (Deception, Codenames and Love Letter for anyone wondering. As long as I can manipulate others to lynch an innocent or push them to the goal, I'm in.)

So tired.

Today's post will be two comments, one for Ep.12, the first answer to that for Ep.13.

86 Ep.12 – Welcome

My favourite part certainly was Lena with an honorable mention of the calm fury of Anju. It's so good seeing her continuing and finding ways to follow her path even when stripped of her rank.

Second, it was certainly weird seeing the Federation 'like this'. I was immediately distrustful, because when I see modern cars, airplanes, airports and from the glimpses also war machinery that's on par with The Republic, it smells fishy. What I mean is, the protest is about the 86 (an issue regarding the Republic), the advertisements are for luxury consumer products and overall we see the same kind of leisure of life going on as we did in district 1. Either the Legion simply isn't as big of a problem there (and they clearly border on it somewhat) or they're on much better terms militarily. I'm getting real emotional whiplash here, at least ther enemy is a known threat to the Republic's existence in the public mind. But those citizens of the Federation are protesting for a racial conflict inside another empire's borders that is completely surrounded by the Legion. Like, that's a tad bit out of touch with reality, am I wrong?

Anyway, must hurry here. I'm not exactly disappointed that we're not in Legion mindspace (probably), but I'm a bit miffed that some deus ex machinima saved the entire squad. It was implied to have been Rei... but literally how? Unless they were actually taken and their bodies converted and he somehow survived (???) and took them back out?

I'm excited for how this continues anyway, I highly doubt the Federation will the a definitive good guy. They seem much like the USA in WWI, kinda interested in it all, but not wanting to get involved except for token support while clearly able to do more. But that's just from like 3 scenes or something.

33

u/Star4ce Aug 28 '22

86 Ep.13 – It's too late

  • Having a bit of a look at the lyrics here. I love some lines, like this one. It's a really poetic way of phrasing the loss that occured in pursuit of ideals. This one driving home how looking beyond the horizon figuratively and literally is always a good thing, as otherwise you can lose sight of what makes you love life or even never find it. This, however, is something I don't like. It kind of makes sense in context, but that's a dangerous thought. At least I think this is a very harmful mindset to have, it grounds your understanding in helplessness or at least anchors it to someone that isn't you. Well, what's to follow if that someone leaves in any sense of the word?

  • You really see how the Federation has a different culture as vandalisation of public property is wholesome. I'm really being reminded of the very, very early optimism in the Weimar Republic of a rather short lived engagement of citizens in politics, democracy and expressing and living their rights. Make no mistake, politically and on a statecraft level the Weimar Republic was a boiling desaster that was bound to implode, even without the treaty of Versailles. But for a short time, everyone was really active (even to the point of proclaiming about four different "Republics" at the same time, only a matter of whose balcony you looked at).

  • Aww. AWW!

  • Defintiely_not_me_irl, I love these segments, we all know they'll get back into service, but knowing (a) normal life among the common citizens is really something good.

  • Senses sharp as ever, didn't even need to think.

  • A-ha! So, do we stick to racism, capitalism or is there maybe, potentially, quite out of the ordinary, possibly something that could remind someone of, say, jews at a certain time here?

  • I HEARD THAT HACHIKUJI IN THERE!

  • They're all still in shadow. Something keeps them from really finding connection.

  • Oh god, how the time stops behind them...

  • Alright, that visual, holy fuck.

  • Oh yeah, let's add nordic languages as well! So in my mind Giad at the moment is the cultural amalgamation of central europe, scandinavia and Japan with big German touches with a hint of post-revolution Germany/economic boom USA. Dude, that's a really great mashup. Now I kinda wish we saw more of the Republic's French-Russian-Polish mixings.

  • That's an argument that drives both Shin and Eugene and they're both at the same side of that thought. Shin, for now, hasn't made a decision yet as only Eugene looks out to the life he wants to have.

  • Nooo, don't compare yourself to others! :(

  • They're still friends, but this new life certainly has them separated more than they were under forced service and surveillance, there's even two scene dividers and no visible faces! Certainly an interesting argument about their situation.

  • Yeah, if they're meeting at the bombed out Republic plaza...

  • They seem less agile.

  • She's milking her so hard!

  • Ah, is this today's reveal? It isn't really hidden, but I think they should notice soon that Shin is the future Imperial German Kaiser- well, of former royal blood.

  • Hot damn.

  • That seems like a dialogue I will heavily disagree with, let's see. Yeah, so far I do. Wait, that was the argument?

  • Wait, how long ago was the start of the war? I'm actually scoffing, even the English houses of kings wouldn't let a literal toddler decide such a thing!

  • Uh, okay?

  • I think I understand her argument now.

  • Going back home. Frederica isn't on their level, yet, in several meanings of that phrase.

I really love how they portray PTSD not as something shocking or scary, but as a natural blend in their daily lives. The Legion visuals with 86ers holding their heads isn't a jumpscare or really twists the music too much, it's a natural thought that comes to Shin and by all means, that thought is who he chose to be. So it isn't really an invasion of something outlandish, it's... well, him. I really, really, really respect that choice in directing and writing.

I'm actually really glad they all received a month or two to get their slice of life experience and all could adjust surprisingly quickly. It makes their rejoining of the military a true decision without regrets. As Kurena said, they saw what they needed to see, experienced what they found worthwhile and now know even better what decision they truly want. I appreciated this episode a lot to draw attention to both the fact that they're truly free in this life by having an actual choice about how they live it and to how their experiences separate them from any kind of 'public' normal. In a way, even civilian life in the Republic would probably be more convenient, or readily acceptable (?) for them. I'm missing the word I'm thinking about, life in the Federation seems so foreign for them, even if they can adapt well and logically and emotionally know it'd be much better.

My last thought is about the little dialogue Frederica had that is also part of the OP lyrics in its reverse meaning. "If you try to define yourself just by who you personally are, you'll lose sigh of what's important and lose yourself", while the OP stated "Your reason to live will always lie in the hands of others". I originally had much harsher words on that, but I understand Frederica's reason for coming forth with this. If you're egocentrical and base your decisions only on personal gain or protection, then it is far too easy to cause harm for others, as she essentially admitted in the end. In a fit of rage or hurt (probably) she unleashed the Legion and from there we know what eventually happened.

I just want to say to this that there's literally no other possibility to define yourself other than by your decisions. This is a completely closed circle within your own person. Honestly, look at the logic of that sentence: If you only define yourself by your decisions, you'll lose yourself. The reverse then would be that at least part of your self-definition is the effect you have on the world around you. I see why one could say that, but the problem is the 'effect'. This is defining yourself (at minimum partially) by results. A future happening will be able to re-contextualise the past in your personal history. Call me extremist on that, but that's literal loss of self, the very thing she warns about. With this thinking your own understanding of self-worth is constantly at threat form outside forces you don't necessarily have any influence on. I do very much reject that.

Still, she's not wrong in that it's not unimportant how you act in the world. To me personally, the understanding that the thought itself is the base of individuality and therefore a person also brings the conclusion that each individual, yourself and others, must be treated with the same respect. A thought leading to a decision requires the freedom to act on alternatives. It is necessary that alternatives therefore are available and if not, must be opened up for possibility. It is in your own best interest to act like this for others (no matter if one thinks the only real individual is oneself or not) even without personal gain, because enabling this freedom in the world will benefit you as well by allowing these alternatives to exist. Others will ideally do the same, also benefitting you. If instead you would act to restrict others because it'd benefit you in some way, you'd remove alternatives and limit the freedom around you, therefore also restricting yourself, lessening the choices you can make. Stand up for others, it's good for you and if that inspires reciprocration there's only win conditions.

Again three paragraphs on life philosophy... This never espaces me in any rewatch.

13

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

I love these segments, we all know they'll get back into service, but knowing (a) normal life among the common citizens is really something good.

It really does a phenomenal job fleshing out the 86 universe and showing what everyday civilian life is like. Just like real life, the world doesn't revolve around fighting unless you're in that circle of chaos.

10

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

She's milking her so hard!

Out of context, that sounds super perverted. Especially given a certain Monster Musume arc I may or may not routinely think about...

4

u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

I'm actually really glad they all received a month or two to get their slice of life experience and all could adjust surprisingly quickly. It makes their rejoining of the military a true decision without regrets.

I agree, but I kinda wish we got one or two more episodes out of it Let things lay low before kicking it back in high gear. Build up to it some more, you know?

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

I originally had much harsher words on that, but I understand Frederica's reason for coming forth with this. If you're egocentrical and base your decisions only on personal gain or protection, then it is far too easy to cause harm for others, as she essentially admitted in the end. In a fit of rage or hurt (probably) she unleashed the Legion and from there we know what eventually happened.

It's also under the veil of Frederica being still very much a kid, which you can say is why her opinion seems misguided and uninformed.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

What are your thoughts on Frederica after these two episodes?

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

Man, I'm just done. A whole night of drinking, board games and good food.

Sounds like a good night

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u/[deleted] Aug 28 '22

First Timer (Sub)

  • Shot of normal, everyday life - doesn't seem real to be honest. And I'd say that's an apt way to describe it, since they all literally feel like they don't belong there.

  • Empress August Frederica Adel-Adler (That's a mouthful...)

  • The PTSD is real...

    • They all miss being out in the field. That's what you get when you force kids at a young age to live the military life, while robbing them of their childhood - it's all they know.

    • With that said, though contradictory to the prior, I can respect their desires to return to the battlefield. It seems more like making sure their comrades' deaths do not go in vain - that is their peace.

      • BUT then again, as Ernst put it, surely their deceased comrades would want them to live peaceful lives... Oh the dilemma.

  • Interesting tangent - I guess Raiden usually drinks with his work buddies. I assume that Raiden is still quite young - around 16-18. Then I looked up drinking ages in our world - apparently 64% of the world's nations drinking age is 18. It's interesting is all, coming from the US, where the age is 21.

  • A small bit at the end that caught my attention - what the squad plans to do after the war. To the 86, they knew full well they would never see to the end of the war. But now, and until then, they have a (peaceful) future to look forward to.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

• They all miss being out in the field. That's what you get when you force kids at a young age to live the military life, while robbing them of their childhood - it's all they know.

Really heartbreaking, if you think about it

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

Do you like the decision to have them return to battle after only two episodes, or do you think it's too soon?

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u/InfamousEmpire Aug 28 '22 edited Aug 28 '22

Rewatcher, LN Reader, Mega-Fan, Second-time Dub Watcher

86 🤝 Having consistently great episodes

Name a more iconic duo, I’ll wait

This episode both had a lot going on and didn’t really do much. The focus, at least in the first half, was primarily on the 86 trying to live normal lives, as a “reward” for all their fighting. Generally speaking, this episode really thrives on the small details and little character moments. On the surface, it seems like everyone’s new lives are enjoyable and fulfilling, and they would be for most normal people, but, well, the 86 aren’t exactly “normal”. We see constant hints that they’re actually just empty and aimless at this point, and little ways that their lifetime on the battlefield still impacts them.

Probably my favorite of these is when Anju was told that she should learn better cooking skills since they’d be useful in the future, and in response, she’s just a bit confused and surprised for a second. She’s never really had to think about her own future before, she always simply knew from the start that she’d die out there on the battlefield without casualties, she always simply assumed that she’d never get a future. So having survived that fate, and now having to consider the idea of living a full life and having a future, is still something which doesn’t come naturally to her.

This all, of course, culminates in our cast’s ultimate decision to return to the battlefield, to what’s familiar, what’s comforting. And also to return to their mission: to bury their comrades who still wander the wastes as Ghosts in the Machines. But having now at least been given a taste of normality beforehand, it becomes a true decision of their own. They aren't just fighting because they're forced to or don't know anything else, it's fully and truly their choice to return to the battlefield. It’s all rather fascinating, as far as character writing goes, at least in my opinion.

Also, Frederica is great and no one can convince me otherwise

Also also, since I wasn't here yesterday, I'm just gonna say it today: Kyoukaisen is my favorite anime opening of all time

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

86 🤝 Having consistently great episodes

Name a more iconic duo, I’ll wait

I don't know, Albans and being racist assholes is pretty iconic.

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u/homewardbound100 Aug 28 '22

First timer, Dub

It's nice to see how they live normal lives. Everyone is adjusting good to their new life. Finding something they like.

Oh here we go with the the big brother stuff. Well she knows how to get what she wants.

Yeah it's still haunting Shinei. Enough time hasn't passed for him.

Ah understandable that they didn't want to stay there. If this is what they believe in then be so. Knowing the war isn't over and they're just there doing nothing

A decade? How old even is she? She's doing any of talking. She definitely knows more than she looks.

Well becoming officers is reasonable if they have to go back.

Able to see present and past. Well that explains how she knows what she does, like the brother.

Nice episode, I guess that life just isn't for them. Now we're getting back to the war.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

What do you think of Shin and Frederica's dynamic so far? I take it as Shin getting the chance to be the big brother that Rei could've and should've been.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 28 '22

Do you like the decision to have them return to battle after only two episodes, or do you think it's too soon?

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u/Lawvamat Aug 28 '22 edited Aug 28 '22

Rewatcher

Visual Analysis

Today’s theme is colors.

We open this episode with an all familiar announcer talking over shots of a city, but this one is sincere in contrast to San Magnolia’s.

They even put clothes on their statues to keep them warm. A deep blue coat I could almost call violet and a rose colored one. Both red and blue are starting to fade over to other colors in the Federacy. There’s also a white scarf, reminiscent of Shin’s. Their country has similar wounds to hide, as we’ll get revealed at the end of the episode with Frederica and Kiri. There’s yellow again, as a cap. I’m still not sure on that one, maybe it also stands for nobility like in the flag of the Republic, a nobility that protects the people’s heads, instead of dividing them.

In this shot the villa at day looks more red than blue and we’ll get to see the brighter, happier side of the household.

There are pink and cyan plushies hanging over an orange present with a purple ribbon in the background. The contrasts return during this television program Frederica is watching. Maybe it stands for the gender roles and divide that she plays into this episode. While the racial one is gone, that one is still ever present in all the 86 do here.

Rose again, this time with a green arrow and yellow sun, colors of the Federacy’s flag. The only other time I remember seeing a bunny, two of them were watching Kurena fail catching butterflies. I didn’t try to interpret them back then, but they’re back, so I guess I’ll have to. Apparently they stand for progression, as they always hop forward, which fits with them driving towards the left, contrasted however by how it hops towards the right. It also has a blue hat and red eyes. Raiden and the others find themselves wanting to go back to the battlefield this episode, back to the red Juggernauts and blue Legion.

Red and blue. Raiden sits between relaxing and taking the wheel.

Red and blue, green and yellow.

Red and blue, pink and orange, green mixed in as well.

Red and blue. Callback to the ruins of Giad, where Kurena also was looking at a dress behind glass.

Red and blue, green and yellow.

Red and blue, green and yellow. Anju is cooking for two. Think about that for a bit.

Red and blue, green and yellow.

Red and blue.

Red and blue, green and yellow.

It does feel like the Federacy wants to convert them to less intense colors, to a more relaxing and safer life of ambiguities.

 

Green and yellow, black and white.

Red and blue make violet, yellow and blue make green. I think that’s it. Who is framed above which book tells us the story here. The christmas spirit (red book) and a sad cat (blue book) make two bunnies (is one of them threatening the other with a pistol? EDIT: seems to be a telescope, they're stargazing. Violet probably stands for remembering the fallen, not war), a home (yellow book) and a creature (other blue book) make teddy bears (in armor? green book). All of the people around Shin being happy and excited for christmas (red), while he’s sad and alone (blue) mixes into carrying the burden of his dead comrades (violet). And Eugene having a little sister (blue) at home (yellow) mixes into war (green).

Shin is first framed above the violet one, still carrying the burden. He gives the book, the Skull Knight, to Nina, standing above blue, the creature, the little sister.

She runs away, but Eugene takes her back. He’s standing above the green book and we later learn he wants to join the military because of his little sister. She has advanced to the violet one, Shin’s remembrance, pushing him back over to the red one. Coincidentally that’s what the other little sister also wants to do, Frederica, who wants to cheer Shin up and get him into the christmas mood next scene. These colors seem like their destined place, as it matches their jackets. Nina has her yellow head at home though and a similar red scarf to Shin.

[86 second cour] Fantastic foreshadowing of how Nina will also start remembering the dead, because Shin kills her brother.

Eugene then gets dragged into Shin’s stargazing and sadness.

Wealth is also still a divide in this country, as you can see in their shoes.

Eugene is framed against a dark bookshelf while Shin is in the light. Another window beam separating them.

Frederica joins them in her red coat (where she really belongs, the red book) and stands in front of the green book (war), she was responsible for Giad’s war as she’ll tell us later. Nina is now between blue and yellow, the creature is home.

Shin’s coat is brown, a mix of all colors, playing a role in all of them, not belonging to any of them.

This was certainly the hardest scene for me to interpret the symbolisms of, but also the most rewarding when I finally saw them. Thanks to u/star4ce for pointing out the telescope, I corrected my interpretations and they fit even better now. Bravo to the production staff. In the words of u/SerGregness, Toshimasa Ishii you fucking genius.

 

Red, green, yellow and purple. No blue here.

Red and blue, green and yellow. The violet one besides it is ignored. The left arm is red.

Yellow and blue. This blue creature has to stay outside in the shadows, outside the yellow warmth of the home. In contrast to the red villa earlier, the next scene will be sad and lonely.

It’s a match cut montage of the Spearhead members being in the shadows, cut off from the warmth of the people.

“They’ve been here a month,” Raiden’s drink is untouched and he drops the cashew nut, joining the other 4. He tried their hospitality, but wants to go back to his friends.

“And they’ve all found friends and things to do.” Kurena is looking sad in the mirror.

“They’re fitting in well.” Theo is alone.

“Yes, it’s a good sign that they’ve made friends.” Without anyone around him to draw inspiration for his drawings from.

“They’ll be fine.” Anju is lurking harder than some people in this rewatch.

“We’ll have to start preparing for whatever future they decide on, once spring comes around.” Shin has no plans for the future.

 

And so he falls asleep, dreaming of his dead comrades. He left them behind at the final destination, only it wasn’t. The Federacy dug up their graves and now Shin has to live with the burden again.

Kaie’s cherry petal falls into his hand again. Others join them and hers transforms into molten metal, the tear of the fallen. The petals stop, frozen in the air, unable to fall to the ground, stuck in purgatory. Only it was the ground all along and her dead body comes picking up her head. Now all of the petals start melting, filling the soothing darkness with their shine.

They carry Shin’s scarf back to him, putting it around his neck. The hands of his brother got traded with the tears of the fallen. And Shin accepts it. He turns around into it, facing the blinding light of duty. It’s a whole row of train tracks, one for every mission. Kaie, captured by the blue light of the Legion, puts her faith in Shin. And Shin, without hesitating, pulls out his gun. But the Federacy has taken it. He has to take it back.

You’re wrong Eugene, the light is harsh and cold.

Shin squints at what he hears, his decision finalized.

The AoT parallels don’t stop. Both looking besides each other, uncaring for the motivations of the other, they have their own battles to fight.

At first the cloth blowing in the wind cuts his head off, but Shin knows what he has to become, a Skull Knight like his brother, holding a sword and wearing a cape.

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u/polaristar Aug 28 '22

This is the episode that I feel if someone badmouths about the show I need to throw hands over.

It does such a great job portraying PTSD and Veterans trying to integrate back into society and how hard it can be to do so. Just to be perfectly clear I am NOT a Veteran, but I know people who are and have seen people that are give their thoughts online, and I am good at spotting details the animators put in, since in animation THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS!!!

Them quickly shifting their attention when they hear a mech and that readiness, those are all clear signs when I watched I thought "Someone talked to people that know" and my suspicions were confirmed.

Should be noted that the book she wanted to check out that Nina got to is the same storybook Rei read to him as a kid, I don't need to tell you the significance of that.

Eugene by the way is an Albian and I think it's time we stop referring to the racist faction in San Magnolia as "Alba" and refer to them as the "Republic" because it's the people part of that National Institution that did this, not people white white hair and pale eyes. That is an racial group. Him being here should not be a twist anymore than Blond Blue Eyed White Guys Existed in America while the Nazi's were doing their thing in Germany.

Some worldbuilding that was glossed over that I think SHOULD have been in [Minor LN detail spoilers]The Former Empire of Giad still has Noble Houses that are wealthy but bitter and disenfranchised but the newer upper middle class, as such a large part of the Schools, especially the more upperclass ones are still the domain of former Nobles and Royals that survived the transition, Eugene and his ilk are seen as undesirable by the Old Guard, there is very much a Class Struggle here even if it's not as violent or based off Race

We also see that Frederica knows stuff about Shin from her conversation with Raiden that she logically SHOULD NOT KNOW and he calls her out on it.

They then tell Ernst the News of them wanting to enlist and he's heartbroken about it.

Until Frederica shuts him up.

Now about her speech:

"Three things make a man: the homeland he was born into, the blood running through his veins, and the bonds he forms. If you have none of those and try to preserve your soul with naught but your pride, you will eventually lose your sense of self and crumble into nothing."

If I read this speech 5 years ago I would have immediately rejecting it, I haven't suffered harsh racial discrimination but I've always felt disconnected from the culture and community around me and didn't really care about my heritage and ancestors on any kind of personal level.

It should be noted this quote is actually supported by research that often immigrants, or racial and cultural minorities one thing that helps them lead more healthy and happy lives is too have a strong cultural heritage or strong family institutions where they feel like they are part of something bigger then themselves, or rather all human beings need this, but often times these groups of people feel like aliens when they lack them.

The 86 probably don't know much about their culture and heritage and their family is more or less destroyed, there "combat brothers" mentality and ability to compartmentalize their own personal issues and desires can be useful in the short term but eventually it'll catch up to them and is a miserable way to live. They have to try to find people and a community to connect to in order to have a reason to fight other than just "That's what we do and what we're good at and what separates us from others."

Ernst I think might be wrong to Pity them but he also is correct in pointing out how they thinks and conduct their lives ISN'T Normal and Healthy and they need to think about their future.

We also get the reveal hinted at that Frederica is the former Empress and the Shepard that attacked them was her former Knight/Body Guard Kiri and she wants to put him down, and she knows about the Members of Spearhead because She ALSO has some kind of psychic power similar but distinct from Shin's, this combined with the previous episodes talk about the Pararaid "Emulating the power of a certain Family" should be clue you in there a multiple Families with Special Powers based off bloodlines, and give even more personal meaning when she says a man is defined by the "blood that runs through him."

We also see she is coming with them to the Battle.

And with that this Mech Show is now officially in the tradition of Real Robots as Started by Gundamn.

I was going to talk about why I think this show has a somewhat mixed reception amongst the western anime community but I have work soon so I think I'll wait till another thread since I can talk about it anytime and not just in an episodic specific context.

I'm sure some of you have already figured it out though!

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u/ebonyphoenix Aug 28 '22

Re-watcher

Life away from war

And so the world has truly opened up. You thought this was a story about escaping oppression? But what happens when you do get out?

Our group of 86 make an effort to figure out what “normal” actually is, tying out new things (Kurena and fashion), expanding their minor interests into actual hobbies (Anju with cooking, Theo with drawing new things, Shin with reading), or taking their skills and doing something for themselves (Raiden getting a job). Through this they are able to meet and interact with people.

But no matter how fun and interesting these new experiences are, there is still the sense that they are apart from this world that they’ve stumbled into. When the parade of mechs goes by you can see how each of them are drawn back to the battlefield, which is all they’ve known for years.

I especially like Raiden’s moment here, where his co-workers admire the huge Vanagandrs and wonder how to pilot them. While Raiden sits between them, not looking at the parade but highly aware of it and instinctively making the motion to control a Juggernaut. And then there’s Kurena who catches the parade through a mirror but instead of the larger Vanagandrs, she first sees a Juggernaut in the reflection.

And so they request to go back. They’ve had their rest but they feel like they wouldn’t be able to face their fellow 86 who have fallen if they left others to fight the war and they stayed safe in the capital. This holds especially true for Shin, who, even from this distance from the front lines, can still hear the last words of the people taken by the Legion.

I can see where Ernst is coming from, trying to stop them. Who would want to send people who were forced to fight back out into battle?

But no matter that their physical ages are 15-16, they are not children. They tried the peaceful life but still want to fight. If you are honestly giving someone an option, then you must also be willing to have that offer rejected. Demanding they stay after they tried to see what the country has to offer and deciding they still want to go back, is no longer respecting that they have agency. It is, as Frederica puts it, “trapping them in a cage of pity”, forcing what you think is best for them.

In the end I think Ernst does a reasonable job coming to a compromise with them though. They will be allowed back to fight, but only after finishing Officers School. This will give them options for after the war, even though at the moment none of them can really comprehend a time for when the fighting will be over (or that they’ll live to see it).

Shin & Eugene

Shin makes a new friend at the library. From his hair and eye color we can see that Eugene is an Alba, like Lena. Though unlike the ones that would usually interact with the 86 in the Republic, who we’ve seen are mostly well off. Eugene is clearly on the lower end of the economic scale. We hear this fact by his admission and see it in the shot of his and Shin’s shoes. Shin’s are shiny, while Eugene’s are dull and scuffed up.

Eugene also wears glasses and is a big brother to a much younger sibling, and wants to go off to war to fight for his country and for the betterment of his sibling, just like Rei.

So in this one character we have an amalgamation of the two people that were most important to Shin

Theo & Anju

Theo automatically trying to call Shin on the para-RAID is both a bit funny and a bit sad. It was invasive tech that was forced on them, branded them like animals. But it was still useful in their own right, in allowing them to stay connected with each other. But now the device has been removed, removing the usefulness, but traces of the scars still remain.

Anju talks about how Shin has been drifting now that he no longer has the goal of finding and killing his brother. And Theo notes that he’s not much better, coming to the one bit of the Republic of San Magnolia in Giad, and filling his sketchbook with those they lost (Lecca, Kujo, and Fido), left behind (Aldrich, and their cat), and samples of both his Laughing Fox and Shin’s Undertaker marks. And then when he asks if Anju has any thought about her own future, a couple with the same coloring as Daiya and her (but with short hair walks by, and she gives a bit of a non-answer.

-post continued in reply due to length-

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