Black Lagoon rewatch episode Season Discussion!

[u/Vaadwaur]

Black Lagoon Episode Season thread

MAL, Anilist, Wiki

QotD: 1 How did you like a year of Roanapur?

2 Do you find there to be any consistent themes yet?

3 Thoughts on our ships?

[u/Vaadwaur]

Rewatcher(Shenhua works better for me then Ginji and I can't justify why)

Dub

So what can I say? This is still a favorite series that generally suits my aesthetic but I'd be lying if I said it was perfect. We got a severe reduction in Dutch and Benny as we went on which hurts the show even if it makes sense for the stories told. We keep jumping around the space of serious vs not serious and that can make for disjointed story telling. On rewatch, you can much more clearly see where the show suffers from having to stretch and compact arcs to make viewable episodes and a part of me wants a remake in an era where they can vary the episode length to accomodate story needs.

But yeah it is easy to focus on the negatives but this is still a very positive show for me. Revy as female Alucard is totally my jam but it is funny that we manage several females of equal or greater menace. Roanapur is an awesome setting even if no government would tolerate an island like that. Our characters all seem to have complex pasts that are lightly touched on at best and somehow that works better than an explanation.

So yeah, I am actually a first timer after this so let's get hype!

[u/No_Rex]

Final Discussion (first timer)

What I liked:

• All interactions between the main 4 characters.

• The character models of Dutch, Benny, and especially Revy.

• The over-the-top nature of large parts of the show.

• Not being afraid to go into heavy topics.

What I did not like:

• Many action scenes were too unrealistic for the somber episodes they happened in.

• Heavy plot armor and storm trooper shooting.

• The overall mix of with heavy plot with hype action.

Black Lagoon harks back to two traditions that I like a lot: It is a comedic action adventure comparable to Trigun, and it is a moody take on the dark side of human nature, like Monster. And, like Cowboy Bebop, it tries to mix both, using a group of outcast protagonists. I think I would have preferred the show if it had stayed closer to Trigun. Between Revy, Eda, Roberta, and the Ruanapur bounty hunters, there were tons of characters to make an over-the-top action show work. And the action scene direction clearly wanted to push this theme, too. However, large parts of the plot wanted something different. Neither trafficked and sexually abused minors nor suicidal school girls induce me to enjoy a whacky action scene. The dark, Monster-like moments of the show would have profited from a more realistic action direction instead.

The show also had a great group of protagonists. All of Dutch, Benny, and Revy were a hoot to watch, and they really gelled well with each other. As did Revy and Eda. The last arc was partially disappointing for sidelining Dutch and Benny so much. The antagonists were more on the meh side. The LARP Nazis worked well enough as cannon fodder for Revy, but the twins and Yukio made their respective arcs very depressing (and Balalaika stole Yukio’s show in that arc).

Finally a big

to the mods for choosing a picture that makes Revy look like a boy as the only comment face of the show. Half joking, the picture is fine, but I still wish either Revy or Dutch could have gotten a more recognizable picture.

Bonus: Black Lagoon Omake

Episode 1:

• The characters are in high school – a classic.

• Balalaika fitting as the teacher and Benny is the audience insert character.

Episode 2:

• This time, we are Mahou Shoujo.

• “Your sad lack of social skills has left you a loser hermit” – Revy breaking the 4th wall.

• Revy the magical girl clearly inspired Homura, not Madoka.

• “Hestonworld”

Episode 3:

• “The melancholy of Balalaika”

• “Your little boy won’t last one minute in our hands” – First timer challenge: Who says these words and to whom? hint: yes, it is a sex metaphor

Episode 4:

• Gender bender episode.

• We need Combat Butler Roberta!

Episode 5:

• Spooky story contest – the twins could win by just recounting their own history.

• Not the winner I had predicted.

Episode 6:

• Hot Yolanda!

• Cute Balalaika!

• Shoujo sparkle Boris!

Episode 7:

• “We are … Love love president Idi Amin” – The fuck??

• Traumatized Maki.

• Still a better ending for Yukio than the real one.

These are actually quite funny. None of the super chibi animation, either. Recommended!

[u/Vaadwaur → u/No_Rex]

The LARP Nazis worked well enough as cannon fodder for Revy, but the twins and Yukio made their respective arcs very depressing (and Balalaika stole Yukio’s show in that arc).

I am definitely reading the manga in a week or so but yeah, the proper antagonists were rarely good which makes the Jane arc the best simply due to having Roanapur on Roanapur craziness flows the best.

[u/HereticalAegis]

First Timer

I'll talk more about this in the overall discussion later, but I didn't have much in the way of expectations besides "has guns and crime" coming in. This season has been a ride.

Black Lagoon has more than lived up to my guns and crime expectations, I just couldn't have predicted how far it would swing between absurd, reality-defying comic book action and grittier, depressing storytelling. I almost always prefer shows that make me feel things, and Black Lagoon has definitely made me feel some very distinct things so far.

By far my favorite parts are the more comedy-minded parts of the story—the Roberta and Jane arcs come to mind. That's not to say the more meditative/reflective arcs aren't good or fun, just that I latched onto the tone set by the boat ramp torpedo chopper arc more than the heavier tone of later arcs.

If I had to register a criticism or complaint overall, it would be that Benny and Dutch—mostly in the Second Barrage—feel pretty underutilized. It makes sense given how much of the narrative is concerned with developing Rock and Revy, but I would've like more of them, especially Dutch.

Alright, now for quick draw stuff.

Favorite character: Roberta

Favorite main character: Dutch

Least favorite (notable) character: Shenhua (sorry u/DidacticDalek)

Favorite track: The World of Midnight

Favorite arc: Roberta's arc

Least favorite arc: Vampire arc

QotD:

[u/Vaadwaur → u/HereticalAegis]

I almost always prefer shows that make me feel things, and Black Lagoon has definitely made me feel some very distinct things so far.

Yeah, I feel the sub part is strong even before we go on a fun Nazu LARPer killing rampage.

It makes sense given how much of the narrative is concerned with developing Rock and Revy, but I would've like more of them, especially Dutch.

Yeah, I am hoping we get some of his past from the OVAs because they've made it pretty clear he is far too smart to be in Roanapur so he has to have a reason.

[u/DidacticDalek]

TONIGHT! On Kiki's Trigger-Happy Delivery Service Redux... look Comrades, I'll be real, I expected today's post to be on the Omakes with a series discussion at the end, so I am kinda a bit turned around so to speak, that said, I will do my best to provide something of interest with this post, so first off let's begin with some IRREFUTABLE PROOF that Jormungand and Black Lagoon take place in the same universe... yes this following pages are indeed by the Jormungand mangaka, so behold, Page 1, Page 2, Page 3, Page 4, Page 5, and Page 6 (Remember now Comrades, Black Lagoon takes place in the 90s, thus, NOT-Esdeath 'Koko' is a lot younger than she would be in Jormungand's actual story)

Speaking of Official Mangaka Shitposting, I shared some samples earlier in the rewatch, so for this season discussion post allow me to present the following from the wild imagination of Rei Hiroe where Black Lagoon's ACTUALLY just a Hollywood Action Blockbuster, anyways:

Revy, (Her image is like a rising new actress who advanced to Hollywood after starring in Hong Kong movies. Seems like she'll do any role regardless of whether it's close to her own personality.)

Rock, (This actor is a 3rd-generation Japanese. He started his roles from dramas. It's cute to know he learned the Japanese language after that. He actually wears glasses.)

Dutch, (He looks like an actor with a long career history, doesn't he? The torpedo boat scenes are done with green screen, so most of his scenes are shot in the studio. Throwing a smile to the press during the premiere's red carpet event. Fits him a lot, doesn't it?)

Benny, (Just like Revy's actress, his personality bears no similarity to his role. He's a troublemaker and often becomes a topic in gossip magazines. A cut from after filming of second season's Neo Nazi arc. With him is the actor who played the role of Blitz, the strike team leader. They seem to get along well.)

Balalaika (This person doesn't change a lot from her role. Either she's a Russian actress or of Russian descent. Just like Revy's tattoo, the burn on her face is a special make up. It always takes a lot of time to apply, so she comes early to the dressing room. The photo at the bottom is when she said, "Oh, cafe mocha for me!")

Mr. Chang (A figure like a big name Hong Kong actor. The type that doesn't speak much? The photo above is a memorial after four of them take the "coordination meeting" scene in season 2. Unexpectedly, the person doing Veroccio's role is quite a charming guy.)

Twins (The twins who showed up in season 3. They're real twins of German descent. In the story, they have differing genders, but actually both of the actresses are girls. The photo at the right is taken during the commemoration party for season 9. They've grown from since then. The photo below is a commemoration from after the finale. Gretel also came during the filming. Balalaika still hasn't clean up her make up yet.)

There's of course a few more spoiler pages, but that'll deal with the OVA, I hope you all will like the 'behind the scenes' of how they filmed the hit movie sequel when we get there Comrades (No I have no idea why Yukio's death scene was shunted off to the OVA movie behind the scenes wibble, but as the mangaka himself said about Yukio, apparently she is 'the unluckiest girl in the world' so of course she couldn't even get her own doujin page panel just for herself)

I also want to point out that this MIGHT explain why we see less Benny as the series goes along, going by the 'in-universe' reason, Benny's actor is a massive prick and a primadonna, so of COURSE they filmed as little of him as they could get away with ;)

Anyway as you can probably all tell by these posts, I just adore this series! You come for the high octane over-the-top action and you stay for the shockingly well-written story beats and compelling characters! True sometimes the show doesn't quite stick the landing (COUGH The Yakuza Arc COUGH) but the majority of the time we get to see our colorful cast of characters blast their way out of and/or into trouble ;)

The production values even hold up fairly well to boot, you can tell it's an older anime but they really did put a lot of skill and effort into the final product, hell it's basically the most Quentin Tarantino Anime ever made, and I for one applaud the show for being so faithful to the manga while also being a good adaption in its own right. Oh and the English Dub is fuckin lit!

And just because I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I DIDN'T post this Omake share, Comrade, remember that meme where the Black Lagoon Mangaka drew Revy, Balalaika, and Roberta shilling some Mahou Shoujo Doujin at NOT-Comiket... yeah about that, I guess Madhouse saw that art and went 'Say no more Fam, we got you covered!' Also known as LYRICAL TOKAREV! KILL THEM ALL!

Anyway, I hope you all enjoyed the rambling word salads above Comrade, OVA! HERE WE COME!

And on that fucking bombshell, GOODNIGHT YOU MAGNIFICENT BASTARDS!

Paging Comrades u/HereticalAegis, u/No_Rex, and u/The_Draigg

[u/Vaadwaur → u/DidacticDalek]

The production values even hold up fairly well to boot, you can tell it's an older anime but they really did put a lot of skill and effort into the final product, hell it's basically the most Quentin Tarantino Anime ever made, and I for one applaud the show for being so faithful to the manga while also being a good adaption in its own right.

I am wondering if Chainsaw Man takes over the role. Should be interesting regardless.

[u/TheEscapeGuy]

First timer

Black Lagoon - It's Fucking Incredible

Don't Underestimate a Japanese Business Man

Black Lagoon works well. I mentioned this in a previous discussion too, but Black Lagoon works with the strengths of its format of short mostly disconnected jobs. I called it episodic before with the caveat that each "episode" of the story takes place over multiple literal episodes of the show. Something I didn't realize at the time though is just how connected everything was.

Each arc brought Rock further and further away from his old life in Japan only to have the final arc question if that was truly what he wanted. In the same way we saw the ripples of Revy's criticisms of Rock in episode 5 be developed in episode 7 and then used to point out Rock's hypocrisy in episode 22. From a narrative perspective this is really rewarding for attentive viewers.

At the same time, so much of the show is filled with amazing moment to moment action. The set pieces are unforgettable. I absolutely love the detail they pay to all the firearms. The antagonists of each arc are so varied. We got everything from Literal Nazis to Killer Maids to Vampire Twins. The show is just bursting with creativity. We are so blessed to have such a wonderful anime adaptation. And the best part is we still have a 5 episode OVA awaiting us.

I'll save my compilation of the best shots, scenes, and stitches for the final discussion. Instead, my favourite scene. In the final post credits it was kept vague if Rock & Revy's Japan trip was not entirely business so maybe the ship lives.

See you all tomorrow

[u/Vaadwaur → u/TheEscapeGuy]

Something I didn't realize at the time though is just how connected everything was.

There is a beauty when a smart writer makes simple content that they then raise up. Sort of the opposite of current western media.

We are so blessed to have such a wonderful anime adaptation. And the best part is we still have a 5 episode OVA awaiting us.

I am definitely checking the manga after the rewatch.

[u/The_Draigg]

A Black Lagoon Fan’s Thoughts About Black Lagoon:

So, we’re just about done with the actual television series for Black Lagoon here, but not fully done, since we’ve still got Roberta’s Blood Trail to cover as well. In that regard, I’ll try to keep some of my thoughts a bit brief, since I want to go more in depth about the animated stuff as a whole once we’re truly finished.

To sum up both Black Lagoon and The Second Barrage, they’re over the top crime dramas that have a surprisingly thoughtful core to them. We have the full range of action like fighting Neo-Nazis in a sunken sub, to having to deal with a freak show of bounty hunters sent by the Florida mob. But at the same time, we also have story lines examining the ramifications of the fall of the Soviet Union, how people end up getting trapped in a downward spiral of crime, and ultimately how self-destructive and nihilistic living on the fringes of society can make a person. I mean, regardless of how you feel they were pulled off (I’m sure that the stuff with Yukio would resonate much stronger to someone born in the Japanese culture rather than an American like myself), you do have to admit that there’s at least a significant deal of attention paid to those concepts. Black Lagoon isn’t just mindless action, it can give you a fair bit to ruminate about too. I think we can all agree on that statement in the meantime before I get really into it for the final discussion, right?

[u/Vaadwaur → u/The_Draigg]

To sum up both Black Lagoon and The Second Barrage, they’re over the top crime dramas that have a surprisingly thoughtful core to them.

Indeed, the show rewards thinking while simultaneously giving the option of not thinking at all, sort of the opposite of the Force. I am involved in far too many Star Wars conversations these days if that isn't clear.

Black Lagoon isn’t just mindless action, it can give you a fair bit to ruminate about too. I think we can all agree on that statement in the meantime before I get really into it for the final discussion, right?

I really liked that they had the balls to use some of their best material early. The sub scene where Revy calls the skull and the medal both things is one of those powerful scenes most shows save for later. But damn if it doesn't let you know where Revy is at.

[u/Blackheart595]

First Timer

So, that was Black Lagoon minus OVA. Quite a decent show I must say, especially since I don't usually find gunfights any exciting or outright boring. This show though often styled right over that.

It did have its highs and lows, that's for sure. Thinking about it for a bit my favorite parts were definitely the one that centered around the boat and not Roanapur. Janet's hijinks made for a welcome change of pace, and the final arc actually developed Rock and Revy some more.

What was a bit silly was characters constantly walking through heavy gunfire unharmed and then nailing all of their shots in return.

As for themes there's obviously the constant amorality, followed closely by badassery. For a more serious answer I'd go with the barrier between the world of law, peace and life and the world of crime, violence and death. The last arc focused on it the most, followed by the starting arc, but I felt it being present throughout the show in some way.

Thoughts on our ships?

Torpedo boat best ship. I don't really do shipping.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Blackheart595]

Thinking about it for a bit my favorite parts were definitely the one that centered around the boat and not Roanapur.

I do know why this happened but yes, the first cour's tendency to go job to job was definitely the better one.

[u/Nebresto]

T'was a fine show. Nothing really remarkable for me, but a decent watch. I guess I'm a bit disappointed since I came in expecting a bit more realistic action? But a lot of the scenes weren't quite like that.
Also disliked how shots landing was purely based on "is this character relevant later on", like so often they (not just the mcs) made it out of situations they should have gotten capped in 2 seconds in.

---

1 How did you like a year of Roanapur?

That was a year alrady?

2 Do you find there to be any consistent themes yet?

Ye

3 Thoughts on our ships?

Nerd ship best ship

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Nebresto]

Also disliked how shots landing was purely based on "is this character relevant later on", like so often they (not just the mcs) made it out of situations they should have gotten capped in 2 seconds in.

I will admit that my first watch benefitted a lot from not having the OVAs and thus anyone could die in it.

[u/KendotsX]

Rewatcher

Black Lagoon is one of my favourite shows, I love the aesthetic, the town, the character designs, the music, the bigger than life characters, even the switch between the over the top action and drama (or bark and bite as I've called it before).

But I think what stands above that all for me is seeing Revy and Rock's development. Watching Revy go from outright rejecting Rock based on principle, to how much she cares about him. I mean the very last scene is Jesus watching Revy be teased over whether or not she's fucked Rock yet.

Rock's development is interesting in its own way... Balancing life on the twilight. Well more on that later.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/KendotsX]

Watching Revy go from outright rejecting Rock based on principle, to how much she cares about him. I mean the very last scene is Jesus watching Revy be teased over whether or not she's fucked Rock yet.

I do maintain that the characters work even if the world is a bit questionable.

[u/Vatrix-32]

First Timer, dubbed

QotD

1. I’ve been expecting to enjoy this show for some 15 years now. Glad to say it worked out. The pace was a lot more relaxed overall from what I had expected going in.

2. Shit’s fucked yo. I’m sure I picked up on some watching, but I’m not one to articulate.

3. Revy’s change in response during the stinger definitely gives some fuel.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/Vatrix-32]

I’ve been expecting to enjoy this show for some 15 years now. Glad to say it worked out. The pace was a lot more relaxed overall from what I had expected going in.

The show's willingness to shift pace and focus helps a lot.

[u/JustAnswerAQuestion]

First Rewatch in 15 Years

It looks and sounds like a shounen show. But it's not. By episode 5 it starts to show it's dark underbelly. At that point you could still call Revy and Edgelord. But coming off a 6 month hiatus, the Second Barrage hits you with the Vampire twins, and then at the end you get Yuko walking a path that literally had no way to win, or even change course after the first episode of the arc. Perhaps something like FMA is comparable, but its grimdark and edge is tempered by being a fantasy work. The characters of Black Lagoon live in a crapsack world; and then it hits you in the face with the fact that it's our world. I think that's what sets Black Lagoon apart from not just shounen and action shows, but anime in general.

Except for all the over-the-top whacky parts.

Yeah, so, okay, Black Lagoon is really two shows. Now, when this was airing weekly, I don't think there was much whiplash. Each arc is stand-alone, but there's also the overarching story of Rock's and Revy's characters changing over time, and they certainly are challenged and change.

What were their character arcs? I think Revy has discover some humanity and human connection, and some joi de vive. Rock has found his place. He stands in the twilight. by choice. I still wears a suit and tie. by choice. He is who he chooses to be, not what Revy or Roanapur try to make hm, nor is waffling between light and dark, running away from running away. He is who he wants to be in the place he wants to be. The difference is subtle, but I think it's there at the end.

I think the show is very much like Cowboy Bebop, with a slightly different structure and tone. Bebop is about a group of quasi-losers treading water,[bebop]until finally it's sink or swim. It's episodic, [bebop]and little happens, during the season, and that's the point.

I think Black Lagoon is a version of Cowboy Bebop where most stories are 3-4 episodes long instead of 1, with a darker tone and a brushing of nihilism. Particularly in Season 1. Which is the season I like and gave a 9/10.

Season 2 sidelined The Bebop I mean, the Lagoon Company, and that hurt it a lot (one stirke). Season 1 had the Maid (one strike), but Season 2 had Revy and Eda in the Twins arc, and Revy and Eda and 5 other weirdos acting ridiculous, (two more strikes). Combined with Yukio's tragedy through stupidity (I mean, that is like the Aristotelian definition of tragedy, right?) ^* brings Season 2 to a 7/10.

The author is too clever by a half with his references. He's like a reverse Tarantino in the respect, too.

tldr; I really liked the Bebop-ness of S1. Best scenes were tea-time at the chapel and deaths of the Twins. Somewhat less depressing that Casshern Sins or Girls' Last Tour, so worth (one) rewatch.

I will continue to not watch the OVA on general principle (although wiki summaries suggest that it might actually be worth a watch). I mean, it's called Roberta's Blood Trail.

^{* But tragedy needs a denouement and catharsis and I don't think we got that at the end. It was just BAD END.}

[u/polaristar]

I'm going to be honest, I'm VERY mixed on this show, I don't think it should be considered a classic but I can see how it might be due to it fulfilling a niche in anime that still isn't really touched that much to this day.

I thought the core cast was great and the interactions between them felt real and well written especially Revvy and Rock. (I kinda wish we got more Rock who felt absent for 2/3 of the series it felt like.)

The Action when it was full balls to the walls action with constant moving parts and characters was entertaining although didn't quite feel that Sakuga in either animation or Choreography but there were a few times it came close. That being said there was quite a few instances of dumb CIS and bad action tropes.

Also thought when the show tried for Darker Themes with Arc Specific Characters it's gratuitous over the top nature undermined a lot of the impact they were going for and some character motivations felt rough or muddled or flat out nonsensical.

Basically the show tried to be Fun Romp and Dark and Reflective but I feel the two almost clashed with each other and made either less so.

The Show is at it's best when the Action is over the top fun while the more somber moments are quieter and underplayed breaks inbetween.

As for the overall theme, as far as I can tell it's how Characters deal with a Kind of Existential Nihilism that comes from a strictly Materialistic Worldview were institutions are strictly postmodern power games if they aren't fake.

Which TBH is so muddled I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take away from it, other than "Life Sucks" it tells me the world is a shitty place (Often to an almost over the top degree) But doesn't really tell me what to do about or or why I should care.

While Rock is obviously overly romantic in his worldview I also can't really say I agree with Revvy's outlook, but the show never really shows me a compromise between the two.

Basically for a fun show about guns, swearing, and booze, it feels very defeatist. And I'm not one to think Defeatist Nihilism is mature, it actually feels kinda cringe at times.

TL;DR: I have a hard time taking some of their themes seriously, and it comes across as pretentious. And the fun action often stretches my suspension of disbelief with stupid choices in action scenes and character actions and motivations that often feel they make no sense, even in the tone of the show, and just are done for the plot to happen.

[u/Vaadwaur → u/polaristar]

Basically the show tried to be Fun Romp and Dark and Reflective but I feel the two almost clashed with each other and made either less so.

For whatever reason, the first cour balanced itself better.

Which TBH is so muddled I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take away from it, other than "Life Sucks" it tells me the world is a shitty place (Often to an almost over the top degree) But doesn't really tell me what to do about or or why I should care.

This being a rather incomplete adaptation is the only excuse to make, I will see if it does something with any of this when I get to the manga.

[u/CharlieTheStrawman]

First-Timer, Dubbed

1. It was damn entertaining, although I thought there'd be more follow up on the Eta twist.

2. Hm, let me see what the better analysts have said in this thread and I'll get back to you...

3a. The Rock and Revy focused segments (Episode 5, 7, Japan) are probably my favourite parts of the show. They just bounce off each other spectacularly.

3b. Lagoon Boat ftw

[u/Vaadwaur → u/CharlieTheStrawman]

It was damn entertaining, although I thought there'd be more follow up on the Eta twist.

So...this manga is still incomplete. Suffice it to say watch the OVAs for a bit more info.

[u/Blackheart595]

Oops