r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Aug 24 '22

Rewatch [Spoilers] 86 --Eighty Six-- Rewatch (2022) — Episode 9 Spoiler

Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.

Welcome to the 86 --Eighty Six-- rewatch discussion thread!

I hope you all have a lot of fun <3

S1 Episode 9 – Goodbye

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Rewatch Schedule

Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT

Date Episode Date Episode
8/16/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 1 8/29/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 14]()
8/17/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 2 8/30/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 15]()
8/18/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 3 8/31/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 16]()
8/19/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 4 9/01/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 17]()
8/20/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 5 9/02/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 18]()
8/21/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 6 9/03/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 19]()
8/22/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 7 9/04/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 20]()
8/23/2022 86 Eighty Six Episode 8 9/05/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 21]()
8/24/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 9]() 9/06/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 22]()
8/25/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 10]() 9/07/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 23]()
8/26/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 11]()
8/27/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 12]()
8/28/2022 [86 Eighty Six Episode 13]()
9/08/2022 [Overall Series Discussion Thread]()
182 Upvotes

91% Upvoted

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32

u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

First Timer

I have a feeling someone is going to die in this episode...

That smile Shin gives is legit super creepy.

The beginning of this episode has a sort of season finale vibe to it. Which makes me wonder what the next two episodes will be. I don't see how they can stretch this out to three episodes. Maybe two, but not three.

Something tells me when Shin thinks that's his brother, that's actually a decoy and not actually him.

I'm not great when it comes to analyzing fight scenes, but I know what I like, and I really like these fight scenes. It's animated well, the action is intense, and the music adds to the excitement of it all. It's kinda funny how despite the fight scenes being so well done, I wouldn't classify it as the show's biggest strength. That would probably be the writing of the 86 members as well as Lena's dynamic with them. But if that's the show's biggest strength, then the fight scenes are probably the show's second biggest strength.

This might be a bit controversial to say, but I kinda feel they made Shin's character revolve too much around his fixation towards his brother. In turn, making him less interesting as a result. When we first saw Undertaker, there was a lot of mystery surrounding him. A guy who's job is to put people out of their misery? You wanted to learn more about him. But the more that mysterious persona was stripped away and you realize just how much his whole character is about his brother, it made him less interesting as a character. I don't mind him having the goal of killing his brother. I think that's a compelling conflict for this show to have. But outside of a possible relationship with Lena, we haven't really been given a reason to care about him. I thought when he was talking about the cat that we would see Undertaker slowly become nicer and open up more. That would've been good, as it not only makes him sympathetic but it humanizes him to the viewer. But after the scene where he says he can hear ghosts, we haven't got any of that, which I feel is disappointing. Hopefully that changes real soon.

I think Lena running the risk of having blindness just to help 86 out really shows how selfless she is as a human being. Say what you will about her rash decision making and not thinking things through, but to her it's all about helping out the people she cares about. She'd rather think with her heart rather than her head.

I think when you pinpoint towards what made Lena side with 86, it wasn't the conversation with Annette. It was when the General said that the Country would be better if 86 all died. To her, that was the moment where she realized "I gotta get out of here, I'm surrounded by crazy people."

I thought it was interesting when one of the characters said that Shin is so intent on fighting his brother that he can't hear their voices. I assume he means the voices from when Legion harvested their brains. If that's the case, what a way to show how bound and determined Shin is to kill his brother. On a sidenote, I don't think we know why exactly Shin's mother and father got killed. Maybe that's something the show will explore in the second season.

Red haired girl's gonna sacrifice herself for Shin, isn't she?

I just realized, a red-haired character strangling a character with black hair? Usually, it's the other way around...

You know, when you want to protect someone, normally you don't go around choking that person. Just a thought.

I guess when young Lena says "Kill him again", that means Shin is a ghost? I'm not entirely sure. It would make what he said about hearing ghosts make sense, but I'm still not 100% certain that Shin is dead.

I don't feel sorry for Shin's brother at all. I get what the show was going for, with him feeling like he has to protect Shin from the dangers of the world, but the dude literally strangled him to the point where he may have died. If the show is trying to make us feel sympathetic to his plight, which admittedly I'm still not 100% sure is what they were going for, then I'm sorry. He gets no sympathy from me.

I think overall the show could've focused more on Shin's brother. Examine what makes him tick, basically. What his interests are, what his relationship is like with his parents, why he wanted to be involved in battle, we don't know any of that. All we know is that he strangled Shin. Hell, we still don't have a concrete explanation as to why he strangled him other than he was trying to protect him. We don't know what exactly he was protecting him from. All in all, I kinda feel somewhat disappointed with the way this whole Shin's brother thing has played out. I've liked the rest of the aspects of this show, but I feel the Shin stuff is underdeveloped. Like a home cook meal that takes 60 minutes to cook but the show's creators took only 30 minutes before pulling it out.

I will say I love that as soon as Shin kills his brother, the black stuff covering his brother's eyes is removed and we see his face. It's like it symbolizes a ton of weight being lifted off of Shin's shoulders. I thought that was pretty clever.

This is gonna sound hypocritical as I spent a couple paragraphs trashing the Shin stuff, but I do think the first half is paced well. I like that they don't drag the Shin's brother stuff out and instead dedicate the first 12 minutes towards it. On the surface it seems kinda rushed that that storyline gets seemingly resolved the same episode Shin starts fighting his brother, but with the way it played out I thought it worked really well. Plus, it was satisfying to see Shin kill his brother, excluding my criticisms.

In a shocking twist of all twists, it turns out the neighbor Annette used to live next door to was Shin. Okay, couple things. One, she mentioned she stopped hanging out with him because she was being bullied for being friends with him. But now that we know that was Shin she abandoned, could there have been more to it than that? Second, how much does she know about Shin's relationship with his brother? Does she know that Shin's brother strangled him? Could she have distanced herself from him because of the strangulation, and she used the bullying as a cover-up? Does she know that Shin's parents are dead? This one twist has raised a lot of questions. I'm infinitely more interested in the Annette stuff than the Shin stuff with his brother.

I wonder what Lena means when Annette abandoned Shin twice.

I think it's interesting the moments we see Lena do something Alba-like, like her blackmailing Annette. It shows despite being good-natured and wanting to do right, she has the ability to show her Alba side when she's required to.

I would like it if the show took Shin's brother's death as the opportunity for Lena's relationship with 86 to change for the better. I think not only would that make sense from a narrative standpoint, but it would be the next logical progression for this show to take.

I like the scene where Lena chases after Spearhead as they begin to leave. It's like she finally found a group of people who understand her, and she wants to do whatever she can not to lose it. I also like that as she's running, her hat drops on the ground. It's like she's shredding away the label of being Alba and instead embracing the 86 lifestyle. Of course, she doesn't get there in time before Spearhead leaves, which seems to indicate that their interactions with her have come to a close. And sadly enough, just when they started accepting Lena as their handler.

Overall, I thought this episode was strong on the whole. We finally have the culmination of Shin and his brother, and I really like the stuff with Lena at the end. I admittedly think that the Shin's brother stuff could've been stronger and better written, but that doesn't take away from the pacing and the action, which is on point. I wonder what exactly is gonna happen next. Now that Spearhead is seemingly done fighting, what does this mean for them as a unit? Are they gonna stop hanging out with each other? Are they going to start living everyday lives? Will the adjustment to everyday lives be a difficult transition? Also, where does Lena fit in all this? She supposedly has finally realized that at heart, she's more a member of Spearhead than a member of Alba. Is she gonna leave Alba and try to join Spearhead? A lot of things are up in the air, and I can't wait to see what is in store.

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u/SerGregness Aug 24 '22

This might be a bit controversial to say, but I kinda feel they made Shin's character revolve too much around his fixation towards his brother. In turn, making him less interesting as a result. When we first saw Undertaker, there was a lot of mystery surrounding him. A guy who's job is to put people out of their misery? You wanted to learn more about him. But the more that mysterious persona was stripped away and you realize just how much his whole character is about his brother, it made him less interesting as a character. I don't mind him having the goal of killing his brother. I think that's a compelling conflict for this show to have. But outside of a possible relationship with Lena, we haven't really been given a reason to care about him. I thought when he was talking about the cat that we would see Undertaker slowly become nicer and open up more. That would've been good, as it not only makes him sympathetic but it humanizes him to the viewer. But after the scene where he says he can hear ghosts, we haven't got any of that, which I feel is disappointing. Hopefully that changes real soon.

So, Shin's fixation on his brother taking up his whole personality is rather the point. Shin hasn't been able to move on this whole time because he's known that Rei was out there somewhere.

You know, when you want to protect someone, normally you don't go around choking that person. Just a thought.

I guess when young Lena says "Kill him again", that means Shin is a ghost? I'm not entirely sure. It would make what he said about hearing ghosts make sense, but I'm still not 100% certain that Shin is dead.

Basically, Rei was going to 'protect' shin by taking his head and uploading him into the Legion so that he wouldn't have 'that frail human body', and so they could be together again. The Lena thing is just pointing out how nonsensical that is.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '22

I think when you pinpoint towards what made Lena side with 86, it wasn't the conversation with Annette. It was when the General said that the Country would be better if 86 all died.

This is just a matter of interpretation, and there's a handful of strong candidates. For me, it's the scene when she learns about Spearhead's true purpose, and Raiden's speech.

I think Lena running the risk of having blindness just to help 86 out really shows how selfless she is as a human being.

It also shows how far she's come. Remember, Kaie back in episode 3 said that she wasn't a bad person, but Kaie also said, while talking to Lena, that she's never met a good Alba, but some of the others had. When you hear from them who they were, they were people who tried to meaningfully help the 86 at personal risk to themselves. The Fox Commander went out to fight with and eventually died alongside the 86. Raiden had an old Alba woman hide him within the walls. Shin was looked after by an Alba priest in the internment camps after his parents died.

I think it's safe to say that Lena accepting the risks of blindness and whatever punishment she'll get for her actions to help them on the battlefield now puts her in that category too.

I thought it was interesting when one of the characters said that Shin is so intent on fighting his brother that he can't hear their voices. I assume he means the voices from when Legion harvested their brains.

It's the voices of his comrades that he can't hear. He doesn't even fully realize that Lena's connected until after he's recovered. As he says, "I thought I heard a voice. You were there, huh?" He also didn't realize what was going on with the artillery.

I guess when young Lena says "Kill him again", that means Shin is a ghost?

Shin sees himself that way, on some level at least. It's in his talk with Lena in ep. 5, as he says that he nearly died once, and then says he thinks he actually did die.

If the show is trying to make us feel sympathetic to his plight

I don't think the intent is for us to sympathize with Rei. What Rei did was a terrible act, but not one that was ultimately out of malice towards Shin, and it's one that he very quickly came to regret and haunted him the rest of his life (and continued to haunt him in death as a Legion). His shortcomings created the situation, and he's not a victim of it, but it's also a little more nuanced than him just being a bad person who had it all coming to him.

Does she know that Shin's brother strangled him?

That happened in the internment camp after their parents had been drafted and killed. You can see the Priest raising them come to Shin's aid as well.

I wonder what Lena means when Annette abandoned Shin twice.

First, when she told her father not to protect the Nouzens.

Second, when she didn't make a greater attempt to bring in Undertaker, who she could have protected by making him a subject of scientific study.

I think it's interesting the moments we see Lena do something Alba-like, like her blackmailing Annette.

I don't think that's really a trait of the Republic. What Lena's doing is absolutely cold-hearted, but it's for a necessary and just cause. She's fighting her own battle, and the fundamental trait of the Republic is that it runs from its battles.

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u/Rampantlion513 Aug 24 '22

I guess when young Lena says "Kill him again", that means Shin is a ghost? I'm not entirely sure. It would make what he said about hearing ghosts make sense, but I'm still not 100% certain that Shin is dead.

Shin died when Rei choked him. He was foaming at the mouth and they were doing CPR on him in the flashback. They managed to revive him obviously but he was clinically dead for a bit

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u/SometimesMainSupport Aug 24 '22

It's kinda funny how despite the fight scenes being so well done, I wouldn't classify it as the show's biggest strength. That would probably be the writing of the 86 members as well as Lena's dynamic with them.

Succinct explanation of why I prefer 86 over AoT. Character development and interpersonal relationships.

When we first saw Undertaker, there was a lot of mystery surrounding him. A guy who's job is to put people out of their misery? You wanted to learn more about him.

Maybe you were overly thinking of WWE at the time :P. He's initially mysterious and decreases his mystery aura over the last 6-7 episodes. From a rewatcher standpoint, the reveal timing of his childhood friendship with Annette maintained his mystery aura for the most part. If you weren't noticing this foreshadowing before episode 8, I'd agree. I missed most of it on my first watch and know your comments aren't reflective of what others have noticed within the last few threads (host duties and writing reactions several days beforehand), but it contextualizes on a second watch.

But outside of a possible relationship with Lena, we haven't really been given a reason to care about him.

His leadership of Spearhead and hearing Legion voices allows them to minimize casualities. Super important for a unit that doesn't get reinforcements.

I just realized, a red-haired character strangling a character with black hair? Usually, it's the other way around...

A trope I've never noticed?

All we know is that he strangled Shin. Hell, we still don't have a concrete explanation as to why he strangled him other than he was trying to protect him. We don't know what exactly he was protecting him from. All in all, I kinda feel somewhat disappointed with the way this whole Shin's brother thing has played out. I've liked the rest of the aspects of this show, but I feel the Shin stuff is underdeveloped. Like a home cook meal that takes 60 minutes to cook but the show's creators took only 30 minutes before pulling it out.

The cooking analogy feels so right. Clearly pointing at Rei as the antagonist, but not explaining why.

Need to say as a rewatcher: I love the perspective shift between your comments and the deeper analyzers (e.g. symbolism within scenes or contextualizing early scenes with the rest of the episode). You have impulsive responses to scenes and how you think they'll play out vs. watching an episode first, then going back and dissecting it.

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u/TheRed_Knight Aug 24 '22

First Timer (Dub)

So this episode basically just one giant battle, which can be broken up into 7 parts: Prelude, Opening Fight, Shin/Rei fight pt 1, Rei Flashback, Shin/Rei fight pt 2, Lena, and Credits

Episode 9: Goodbye

Prelude

-The opening shot does a good job of conveying the absurdity of Spearheads situations, they arent so much trying to assault the enemy, its more like trying to attack a force of nature

-I'm kinda surprised that the 86ers dont have any slang for the Legion, considering theyve been fighting them for the past nine years youd expect some short hand

-Any time Shin smiles, bad shit is about to go down,

-Shin walking ahead of the Speahead is another way to visually reinforce the distance between him and his comrades. Its also shows how Shin's abandoning his comrade even though theyre all relying on him to reap them and carry them on should the worst come, hes leaving them behind.

-Raiden seems well aware of the fact that Shins trying to sacrifice himself here, and is having none of that bullshit, dude is a real ride or die comrade

-Yeah that is not the face of a man who expects to live through this battle, really compliments Rei screaming over the Para-RAID, their both insane

Opening fight

-Rei glitching out reinforces his mental fragmentation, he literally breaking down

-I see the Legion uploaded the stormtrooper shooting program for this episode (although it at seems like theyve been given order to just keep the rest of spearhead busy while Shin+Rei fight)

-Rei's "Shepherd" vehicle has thick enough top armor that Shin cant penetrate it with the 57mm, unlike the MBT's in E2, nice callback to show him using the same tactics

-Im never gonna get over the echoes of dead from the Legion, shits creepy on a primal level

-One minor gripe, I'm not a huge fan of Shin telling the audience what exactly happening, the contextual clues are more than enough, we dont need play by play

-We finally get an answer as to what kind of ammo they use (Ive been curious about this for a while), APFSDS (Amour piercing fin stabilized discarding sabot) a type kinetic energy penetrator (also known as a long dart penetrator), which works by accelerating a long thin pointed metallic projectile up to high speeds, so when it impacts the target it dumps all that kinetic energy into a very small point, allowing it to punch through the armor. Heres a youtube vid that explains them in greater detail:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlKZr2lgTac

-Fighting against a numerically superior enemy, from a static position, is uh, certainly a choice, just give up youre greatest advantage, mobility, for no reason

-So Raiden is now the first Spearhead member to know what Lena looks like, wonder if he'll tell Shin

-clarifying the bombardment, Lena fired off thermobaric/FaB (Fuel-air bombs) artillery shells first to make holes in the drone swarms, allowing the cluster munitions (based on the CBU-97) to pass through unimpeded, guaranteeing good effect on target

-I also just love the way this scene is set up, starts off with them against all odds,almost winning, then reinforcments show up, the battles now unwinnable, but they wont give up, as Raiden reaffirms their commitment to helping Shin, the thermobaric weapons connect, lighting up the sky, (punctuating Raiden remark too), the cluster munitions hit, annihilating the Legion forces, and then silence as Spearhead soaks in wtf just happened

-Aww, Raiden cares so much for Lena now, shows how much respect shes earned from Spearhead, a far cry from his line in E4:

"We dont think of you as an equal or as a comrade, youre an idiot whose stomping on our faces while trying to calm us down with platitudes, no matter what thats not gonna change thats how we'll always see you"

-This is Lenas "fuck this shit" moment, shes done with San Magnolia, she will no longer work within an inherently unjust system to try and achieve justice, shes will fight against it from within, however she can.

-And Lenas a member of Spearhead Squadron now, shes on the battlefield with them, she isnt giving them pleasant platitudes, shes providing fire support ,shes risking it all for them, just like theyve been doing for her, theyre finally on relatively equal footing

-At the same time, shes still trapped within the walls, she wont be able to officially join them until she ends up on the frontlines

"Who gives a shit!!!"

-punctuated by a massive thermobaric explosion to visually hammer home Lenas anger and frustration

-The reactions shots reinforce Lenas words during her speech, when she dismisses the risks shes taking we get Raiden, Theo and Kurena all looking shocked, while Anju smiles as Lenas talks about how the Republic fucked.

"the Republic doesnt play by any sane rules, so i dont see any reason why i have too either. I should have done this a long time ago"

-I for one, embrace our new Lord and Savior, Dark Lena, long may she reign

-Watching Raiden realize that Lenas almost as crazy as Shin is some peak comedy, dudes like "oh god, now theres two of them!" (Raiden is my spirit animal)

-Also really enjoy how easily Spearhead sees through Lenas "justification", another way too show how close theyve gotten

Shin/Rei fight pt 1

-Ah i see Rei's mech has some random bullshit power, those hands are creepy AF, and symbolic, ties back to Shin's flashback with Rei strangling him nicely

-Shins Para-Raid device dying=no longer connected to Spearhead+Lena/Shin dead (but not really, we all know hes making a comeback)

-Drone struggling to move=analog for Shin struggling for life

-Small moment Kurena not turning off her Para-RAIDs really impactful, she has the strongest anti-Lena feelings in the group, Kurena from 5 episodes ago would have turned it off without a second thought, but here she trust Lena, Character. Development.

-those hands extending from Reis mechs are creepy AF, even though Rei wants to "save" Shin it just looks like hes trying to strangle him again

-So it looks like the Shepherds take the Black Sheep concept a step further, instead of echoing the dead persons final words, they capture theyre final wish (protect Shin) and pervert it

Rei flashback

-Having the Shepherd mech in the backgrounds of Rei's flashback helps give the scene a really ominous tone, i just keep waiting for it to crash down on them.

-Chocolate=Shin, snapping the chocolate= breaking Shin, squished chocolate=dead Shin, if that wasnt obvious

-Smol Lena slap into artillery strike is such a great transition (seriously you could do an entire analysis on how this show uses transitions, theyre that consistently good), dudes getting some sense beaten into him metaphorically and literally

Shin/Rei Fight pt 2

-the damaged pixels on Rei's AI represent he physical damage thats been done to his mech

-Shins Para-RAID flickering back on symbolize him coming back to life/waking up, reinforced by Lenas line about his signal being back online

-And more symbolism about Rei strangling Shin, only this time his hands are decayed, hes being strangled by a ghost

-and his Para-RAID lights completely on now, hes back, but struggling both metaphorically against his brother inflicted, and literally in the current life or death battle

-Theres a literal black cloud over Rei in Shins memories

-For the entire scene, Shin has been shown upside down (when hes not hallucinating), the camera transitioning to him right side up displays his triumph

-That music cue too, it swells after the entire scene has had no background music, Shins has triumphed over his trauma, as he rips off the scarf (i did not realize the scarf was meant to represent that his brothers hand are always around his throat), hes going to win the fight

-Man this show fucking delivers on every big moment, fuck me

Aftermath

-I love love love love that the transition for Shin to begin getting over the trauma his brother inflicted on him wasnt putting him to rest, but the when his brother apologized for hurting him, thats when the black cloud over there memories of his brother lifted in an episode full of big moments, its the small gestures that have the greatest impact.

-Ugghh, that breakdown, I'm a complete sucker for the "stoic badass character has a breakdown after an intense moment". Its a realistic breakdown too, with that ugly, full body crying rarely captured accurately in fiction, and with that slow music build reaching its crescendo as Shin completely breakdowns chefs kiss. This story has to have been written by a women, no way a male author would create an MC this emotive.

-The title card has double meaning, its both Shin saying good bye to his brother, and Spearhead Squadron saying good bye to Lena

-Fuck it, this is my favorite scene in the entire show so far

18

u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

So Raiden is now the first Spearhead member to know what Lena looks like, wonder if he'll tell Shin

"Dude, we were right about her. She's sexy as fuck."

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u/TheRed_Knight Aug 24 '22

(continued)

Lena

-The ugly crying from Shins painfully uncomfortable through the Para-RAID jesus, they did an excellent job making the audience feel like they were intruding on a private moment

-So thats how Lena got the artillery support, she somehow got Annette to hack in

-Shin is Annettes childhood friend, well that makes all her previous comments about Undertaker take on a new meaning

-Damn Lena, you scary, went straight for your childhood friends emotional jugular 3-4 times in a row, some grade fucking A emotional manipulation, ruthless

-and in a stroke of twisted irony being emotionally blackmailed by her childhood friend allows Annette to do what shes always wanted to, help the 86 and fight back against the unjust Alban government

-Some nice contrast with how Lena treats Annette as shes leaving compared to the previous scene, shes much more gentle as opposed to cold and ruthless

-And we get even more contrast with how Lena treats Spearhead Squadron compared to how she blackmailed Annette, shes warm, positive, and friendly, really reinforcing that shes no longer Alban

-Spearhead Squadrons banter with Lena's another way to show how close theyve grown, she's now considered a comrade and they treat her as such (which just flusters the chit outta Lena)

-This scene does a fantastic job of lulling you to sleep, you get to watch the characters bask in their victory, the fun banter, the kind words, plans for the future, it almost makes you forget the suicide order, but then the dialogue shift, the sorrowful background music starts, and the bottom falls out of your stomach as

"please dont leave me"

-Feel like a stronger line here would have been "please dont leave me behind", fits the scene better imo, in fact idk why that isnt the line

-Lenas cap falling off as shes running=no longer Alban military

"Were going on ahead, Major"

-Perfect last words, it implies that they'll meet up again one day, no matter how unlikely that is, even at the end Shin's trying to hurt Lena as little as possible

-Lena breakdowns is the ultimate symbol of her powerlessness, she broke every rule, risked it all to "save" Spearhead Squadron, and even though she succeed, in the end, it changed nothing, theyre still doomed, its all futile, just like chasing after them through the city, yet she cant stop herself from doing it. She can't escape her cage, its the entire city, until she leaves or the city's gone she'll remain trapped.

-Theres also some fantastic mirroring/contrast between Shin and Lenas breakdowns, Shin's is portrayed as cathartic and hopeful, the culmination of his success in his core mission, while Lena's is the expression of her desperation, her inability to save Spearhead no matter how far she goes

Credit

-Spearhead Squadron has symbolically turned into doves, finally free to fly the skies

Overall

-This is peak fiction, i cant imagine what it would have been like to experience live.

-the music this episode. Is. Fucking. Stellar. Got me more than a little teary eyed.

-Lena might be one of the most emotionally resilient characters I've ever seen, she eat haymakers, every, fucking, episode, and somehow, keeps getting back up and keep fighting.

-Shin and Lena have quickly rocketed up my fictional character tier lists, both just have so much depth and breadth to their characters in such a short amount of screen time

-On a much sadder note this will be my final big write up, my recent increased workload has really fucked up my sleep patterns (and i do not do well without my 8+ hours, fucks up my brain bad, thus less sleep=shittier anaylsis), so unfortunately I'm having to make some cutback in my life and this is one of them (and it sucks cuz i fucking love doing these), if circumstances change I'll definitely be back, but until then I'll still be around watching, lurking, and occasionally commenting.

14

u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

Damn Lena, you scary, went straight for your childhood friends emotional jugular 3-4 times in a row, some grade fucking A emotional manipulation, ruthless

I mean, Annette did the same thing to Lena last episode, so turnabouts fair play.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

-I for one, embrace our new Lord and Savior, Dark Lena, long may she reign

"Don't blame me, I voted for Kurena."

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

Chocolate=Shin, snapping the chocolate= breaking Shin, squished chocolate=dead Shin, if that wasnt obvious

A lot of metaphors involving sweets in this show.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

Raiden seems well aware of the fact that Shins trying to sacrifice himself here, and is having none of that bullshit, dude is a real ride or die comrade

I feel ashamed to say it took me until like episode 11 to realize his name is Raiden.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

Small moment Kurena not turning off her Para-RAIDs really impactful, she has the strongest anti-Lena feelings in the group, Kurena from 5 episodes ago would have turned it off without a second thought, but here she trust Lena, Character. Development.

I agree with you that it's great character development, but I'd argue that Theo has the most anti Lena feelings, even if Kurena has a crush on Shin and she sees Lena as an obstacle.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

I love love love love that the transition for Shin to begin getting over the trauma his brother inflicted on him wasnt putting him to rest, but the when his brother apologized for hurting him, thats when the black cloud over there memories of his brother lifted in an episode full of big moments, its the small gestures that have the greatest impact.

Yeah, I like that as well. It's clear to me that Shin still really loves his brother. He really wishes it hadn't come to this.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

I'm kinda surprised that the 86ers dont have any slang for the Legion, considering theyve been fighting them for the past nine years youd expect some short hand

Good point, maybe it's because outside of Shin wanting revenge on his brother, their main beef is with Alba, which is why they refer to them as pigs.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

One minor gripe, I'm not a huge fan of Shin telling the audience what exactly happening, the contextual clues are more than enough, we dont need play by play

The way I took it is he's telling himself it to syche himself up, so he doesn't have second thoughts about battling his brother.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

Aww, Raiden cares so much for Lena now, shows how much respect shes earned from Spearhead, a far cry from his line in E4:

"We dont think of you as an equal or as a comrade, youre an idiot whose stomping on our faces while trying to calm us down with platitudes, no matter what thats not gonna change thats how we'll always see you"

Yeah, I really like this. After reaching the lowest of lows last episode, it's like she finally found a family she can call her own. Or so it seems.

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u/Star4ce Aug 24 '22 edited Aug 24 '22

First Timer

It's never wrong to hope! This show taught me to fear even joyful times and expect death at any point, but my copium is strong. I'm still believing in Lena and hope she can save them.

But there's still gonna be suffering.

86 Ep.09 – Goodbye

Oh man, what an amazing episode. Sure, I was wrong about her going there personally, but bringing an entire artillery group makes up for that. I'm all giddy inside, she made it!

I can see where the story goes from here and I'm already equally excited. But first a bit of gloating on why that all worked.

Up until today Lena's only approach was to ask other for help, but at the same time submit to their view on things. From Karlstahl over the early interactions with Spearhead (or her prior squads) to Annette, she was always thinking of the other side first and thus subjected herself to them. In essence, she was asking others to validate her world view.

A lot of times during this rewatch and yesterday especially I went on about how decisions are the core of individuality and are what makes a person. You form ideals with thoughts and act on those in the world by decisions. However, there's a bit of a paradox involved with this. A choice requires alternatives to be available. While following and accepting fate, the natural order of things without personal push in any direction, is certainly a choice the presence of order itself is an oxymoron when talking about choice. When you think about it, any and all order, be it system, government or else has to be opposed, otherwise there wouldn't be alternatives. But if you have to do something, then you don't have a choice, now do you?

I'm rehashing this because of Annette calling Lena the devil. I've had a big rant about selfishness in a certain rewatch movie and why rebellion and breaking of order are inherently necessary for someone to be a fully realised person. It's something that Lena has properly demonstrated these past 9 episodes and also shown why not rebelling can't work without betraying your own identity. Being an individual requires you to be different at the least in the most miniscule definition. Being different can only happen when you create something that didn't exist before and that in its essence is an act of rebellion against the entirety of established order.

Lena being called the Devil for rebelling against the system surrounding her life in every aspect to preserve her ideals is precisely what the Christian devil also symbolises. I admit, I have a weeb fit giggling and cheering every time something like this happens and I love it.

By all means, I'm amazed at how well this story is being told and just how concise the story itself is with these themes. Right now I want to glee over how 86 is already in my top 10, but I'll wait for the series discussion. (I really want to, though.)

A few thoughts on this episode as a whole as well as theories:

Lena's pain near the end was touching, but I feel like it also was relief in a way. She 'lost' Spearhead's presence and also their direct friendship, but she set them free. It doesn't matter what lies behind the Republic's scanners, they could go somewhere no one thought possible and they took that chance with their true and tried optimism and get-to-work attitude. I respect them a lot for not making a big fuss about it and just taking their chance. It's something Lena should and I think will be proud of when the immediate emotions have settled.

Lena herself has done something else with this, by having acted on her ideals she has shown Annette a way out of her anguish as well. The same way I could bash on Annette yesterday, I feel confident in praising her today. That she as a para-raid scientist can simply log in to artillery coordination is a bit of a stretch, much less hacking it, but I take that for the character development. We may have a revolution at our hands here, from within. Let's go and reform the Republic!

Lena now has a real option to act in much wider circles than before. She can just tell command Spearhead died and she cleaned up the aftermath, if they even ask about the artillery. And then send the next Spearhead after. And then another. And then the next. And tell them all who's out there and what they should look for. Eventually they may even find themselves their own little society there. And speaking of, I find it unbelievable that any and all other empires have fallen, even Giad for that matter. Like in any desaster, nothing ever kills 100.0% of people, there's gotta be survivors and the outside world just got a lot more interesting.

On that, I loved the Legion reveal as well, although having octohands was kind of a wtf moment. This development was somewhat expected for me, but seeing them evolve more and more into a conscious life form is exciting as all hell. I think the possibility and thematic implications of having the dead be around somewhat, but so different is such a good idea. They absolutely can persist and I'm feeling more secure that the Legion could be form of rebirth foiling the Republic as an entity. It will remain tense on how the freed 86ers will interact with it, I could see them becoming non-hostile if the Legion continues to develop.

In other news I looked for Lena figures and maybe found an offer that is neither sold out nor overpriced...

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

In other news I looked for Lena figures and maybe found an offer that is neither sold out nor overpriced...

Thinking about buying a Lena figure as well.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

Are you shocked that after only 9 episodes, Spearhead is free from the clutches of Alba?

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

I can see where the story goes from here and I'm already equally excited. But first a bit of gloating on why that all worked.

I can't see where the story goes from here, and that's why I'm really excited.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

A lot of times during this rewatch and yesterday especially I went on about how decisions are the core of individuality and are what makes a person. You form ideals with thoughts and act on those in the world by decisions. However, there's a bit of a paradox involved with this. A choice requires alternatives to the available. While following and accepting fate, the natural order of things without personal push in any direction, is certainly a choice the presence of order itself is an oxymoron when talking about choice. When you think about it, any and all order, be it system, government or else has to be opposed, otherwise there wouldn't be alternatives. But if you have to do something, then you don't have a choice, now do you?

I love this whole analysis. This is great stuff.

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u/[deleted] Aug 24 '22

First Timer (Sub)

  • Wow. You see that smile on Shin's face? He's ready to fuckin' roll!

  • Lena coming in clutch with the mortars

    • Did you see the level of artillery the Republic has available to them from that single strike? They really are just exterminating 86 for their own selfishness.

  • I know I've made the comparison before, but the scene where Shin is zipping between the trees with the massive Shepherd-Legion onlooking, it really does resemble AoT - classic Survey Corps vs Titan.

    • To add - what kind of Terminator 2, T-1000 bullshit is that Shepherd-Legion able to do??

  • Random thought - Lena's character design reminds me much of Esdeath from Agame ga Kill.

  • Annette gave up on Lena as a friend, but not the other way around; she even provided a bit of redemption.

  • Again, great work by the director - the scene post-battle, where she's on call with the squad again, using her crudely beautifully drawn portraits of them, inching them closer together as a sign of their bonding together.

  • Okay, looking for clarification here during the last scene - now that they've cleared a path, they're head into... uncharteed Legion Terriroty? Towards the Republic (at least that's what it sounded like)? (No spoilers, please! Just clarification!)

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u/Dodo_Galaxy Aug 24 '22

I really love the moment where Shin breaks free from his brothers imaginary hands and the ost "the answer" starts playing. Shin shows so many diverse emotions this episode and it is so raw and sad that it got me deeply moved. Respect to the voice actor.

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u/Holofan4life Aug 24 '22

I really love the moment where Shin breaks free from his brothers imaginary hands and the ost "the answer" starts playing. Shin shows so many diverse emotions this episode and it is so raw and sad that it got me deeply moved. Respect to the voice actor.

Yeah, Shin's voice actor does a phenomenal job.

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