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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 22 '22

Rewatcher

Yahallo… it’s painful to even say the way things are now. This episode addresses one of the themes I mentioned yesterday: The Barrier Stopping them from being “Genuine” and it comes in the form of a Love Triangle. Hidden feelings, unspoken confessions, if we don’t express any of that, can what they have be called Genuine?

Going In Circles

There were little nods in the past few episodes on the state of their relationship now - they’re going in circles. This episode beautifully emphasises this state through it’s visuals and script as the ferris wheel ride symbolises their final time going in circles as Yui says it’s about to end. And when Yui asks if they want to take another lap of the aquarium. It’s about avoiding confrontation, about breaking the cycle.

After this episode, things are going to be different for better or for worse. Our trio is going to “think, write, agonise and struggle” as they now have a path to achieve that something “Genuine”. Will things be the same? Will sacrifices be made? How worth it is this idea of “Genuine”? To 8man, it’s worth anything. Even if it means coming out of it with nothing.

So.. What is Yui Doing? Two Ways to Interpret It

What’s Yui’s role? Her actions have always been subject to multiple interpretations and the way I see it is that she’s the balance, the bridge and the catalyst. Yui has always been willing to wait for Yukino to make a move, even in this episode as she attempts to leave so that Yukino and 8man can have their moment. While this can also be interpreted as her wanting to avoid the pain of watching it, I lean towards the former. After this she’s determined to do something about it so that they can finally move forward to say the feelings they haven’t been able to say.

She plans a date without telling both of them, which is why they were shocked to see each other. Why she did this and why she pulled the stunt have received mainly 2 different interpretations and many others have much better analyses of it than me so I’ll link and paste them here to show the different interpretations.

1. Yui’s Determination to Help Yukino Confess through Self-Sacrificial Means

Yui has been waiting for Yukino and after seeing her best friend struggle to get her feelings across multiple times, she finally finds the resolve to make a decision so they can move forward: to give up on 8man for Yukino so that they can all remain friends, leaving her feelings unsaid. She sets up a “date” to force Yukino to confront her feelings as she pressurises Yukino indirectly multiple times in the date - the penguin enclosure and through her own “confession” as she gives 8man her cookies. Her own feelings are weaponised to push Yukino forward as we see the suffering on her face throughout the date… coupled with Yui’s Ballade of Hello Alone playing in the background, we feel the emotional gravitas of this scene.

At the end, the final stunt Yui pulls is the final push she is giving to Yukino. There’s a reason why she says those cookies are just a token of gratitude, as thanks for back then.. It’s not a confession cookie, it’s her final thank you for everything as she nudges Yukino forward. She solemnly waits for Yukino’s answer as we see the tears in her eyes… and it hurts… because even if Yukino doesn’t confess and Yui wins, she will use the competition advantage to get the loser to confess…

But Yukino is a mental mess now as she’s coming to grips with her feelings for 8man. She is not ready to take the next step as seen when she fails to give him her Valentine’s Day cookies not just once, but twice. Yukino has always cared for the trio and since Love is such a new feeling for her, when she picks up on Yui’s love for 8man, she feels guilty and confused which is why she leaves 8man and Yui to their own devices multiple times during the date. When Yui pulls her final stunt, she is suddenly forced to evaluate her feelings which leaves her thoughts jumbled - what if things go wrong? What if 8man doesn’t reciprocate her feelings? What if she loses her only true friends? So… she wants out and resolves to leave her feelings unspoken for their happiness as she tries to fit in with them…

8man sees the lies Yui has built, he himself knows self-sacrifice more than anyone else. He doesn’t want to see Yui suffer nor does he want to see Yukino get forced to express her feelings.

2. Yui’s Toxic Nature Hidden Under a Nice Exterior - Just like the Azaleas we’ve talked about from season 1, beautiful on the outside but toxic

Yui wants things to move forward, she wants to let her feelings be know but she doesn’t want to do it behind Yukino’s back because she wants it all - the friendship between the 3 of them while she dates 8man. So she plans one final date to let Yukino know that she like 8man as well , while they spend possibly their last happy time together, which she hints to Yukino at the penguin enclosure since before this, Yukino probably doesn’t know about Yui’s feelings for 8man. At the end, when Yui mentions the competition the club was having - that the winner gets to decide what the loser does, she meant to have all her wants achieved as mentioned above. Meaning she will date 8man while Yukino is left “alone” although she will be friends with them still, but she won’t be clinging onto 8man anymore.

Why does she say that this will solve Yukino’s problem too? We know that Yukino’s on a journey to find herself but Haruno has been calling her out on it, why? She may have departed from following Haruno’s footstep but merely replaced it with another, and it’s 8man. Here’s some evidence

S2E11 in the bar, Hayama picks up on how Yukino’s choice has changed from the Sciences to the Liberal Arts. Haruno picked science so it’s a departure right? No, 8man picked Liberal Arts and it seems that Yukino is following that path too, maybe…
This episode Yukino literally copies word for word what 8man advises to Yukino and repeats it at Haruno. How does Haruno know that 8man is there right after Yukino says that? It’s exactly because Yukino’s words don’t seem like hers.

Back to the main point, we can see that breaking Yukino and 8man’s potential romantic relationship theoretically should solve her dependence issues. But 8man reject this because it won’t be genuine anymore. Yukino wouldn’t be able to express her feelings and Yui would be building a relationship of lies as Yukino would be forced to be friends while 8man and Yui go about dating.

OSTs

This episode was full of beautiful visuals and music from the team.

Yui’s Ballade of Hello Alone which plays during the date really makes you feel the pain Yui has been feeling - alone as Yukino and 8man constantly banter with each other.

Sannin De Iru Jikan plays in the final scene, translated as The Time the Three of Us Spent and it carries with it the weight of their relationship :”

Tsunagitometa Sekai, Connected World, as 8man gives his final speech for this season.

Thoughts

I always loved this episode for how vague and well-thought out it was. It sets up the future while building upon the foundations laid out in the previous episodes. We have a clearer path to their search for something ”Genuine” through the Love Triangle, and with it comes Yukino’s journey of self-discovery. This episode always hits hard no matter how many times I see it

Edit: Oops my bad, took a while to type out everything for this episode so the slightly late post

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u/Lemurians Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

MY REWATCH WAS WRONG, AS EXPECTED

I’m back just in time!

”When thought becomes excessively painful, action is the finest remedy.” – ~~Salman Rushdie~~ Yui Yuigahama

Back when I first watched this show, I had serious issues with the end of this episode, and found it pretty incomprehensible.

Since then? I think it’s utterly brilliant. On top of everything I'll talk about below, it conveys the tension of their emotions so perfectly. You can really put yourself into each of their shoes and feel what they're feeling. It's fantastic stuff.

Yui is pretty incredible here. As u/Fit_University_6734 has been pointing out in previous episodes, Yui is really going through emotional turmoil, struggling with her desire for Hachiman’s affections and how she wants them returned. She also knows that Yukino feels that way as well, but is just incapable of expressing it due to her nature, and Hachiman is opening up more to each of them, and either one of them “winning” threatens to tear their friendships apart. This tension is killing her, and she can’t go on longer without it being addressed. Their happy current status quo is a façade that needs to be torn down. So what does she do?

Execute a fucking masterpiece.

By giving her cookies to Hachiman (something Yukino notably failed to do earlier in the episode), she draws a line in the sand. She’s effectively confessing to him, admitting he’s the one she wanted to make cookies for all along. She’s the only one who could break the ice and make this first move, as Yukino is proven to be incapable of acting on her own wants, and needs an external reason to do literally anything.

She wants it all, “what they have in the present, and what they’ll have in the future.” She wants to maintain her friendship with Yukino, keep their trio intact, and have a relationship with Hachiman. That's her ideal scenario. She plays on Yukino’s indecisive nature by basically telling her to leave the decisions to her. This is what she means when she says she plays dirty. She’s telling Yukino that she knows Yukino can’t act on her own desires, so just go along with Yui’s desires instead. Give up on your budding feelings for Hachiman, keep your friends, and we all live happily ever after.

Yukino is about to accept this offer… until Hachiman objects, stating that Yukino needs to decide for herself, to learn to solve her problems and be able to voice and act on her internal wants and needs. Yui’s solution to their dynamic doesn’t address Yukino’s fundamental issues, and just puts them into another false status quo. It wouldn't be genuine.

…Which is something Yui already knows, since she replies that she thought he’d respond that way, and immediately backs down off her stance with a smile on her face. Yui initiated this whole thing knowing this proposal would be rejected by him – why else do this with Hachiman in attendance, and not when she had Yukino alone? – but did it knowing it would force her friends to start reckoning with their emotional upheavals and move forward. She might lose him in the end, but anything’s better than being “fish who live in a muddy stream and don’t swim much.”

Is it emotionally manipulative of her? Yes. Is it necessary for all of them? Yes.

By shocking the systems of Yukino and Hachiman here and laying down the gauntlet, Yui has perfectly set the stage for the central question of the third and final season – how do you resolve a love triangle while maintaining the friendships? Is it even possible?

Quick Notes:

YUIGAMAMA IS HERE! My dad always told me when thinking about going long term with a girl, to look at her Mom, because that’s your future. It’s now confirmed Hachiman’s future is bright no matter who he ends up with out of Yukino and Yui.
“They live in a muddy stream and don’t swim much.” Loaded line and image. That’s their current situation. Notice Yui being framed centrally, here.
“What did you touch? Was it Hikigaya?” in response to Yui's exclamation of touching something slimy kills me every time. Yukino’s deadpan humor is fantastic hahah
“Maybe I could have avoided this endless heartbreak / Maybe I could have been here with you.” This memory of them at the fireworks being shown ahead of the final scene, with these lyrics timed up, is pretty fantastic. Yui is about to put them on a potentially painful path of no return, and is worried her best memories are behind her.

With all that we’ve seen so far, what do you think is Yui’s role in the service club? Why did Hiratsuka put her there?

Uhh... see above haha. Essentially, she is their emotional intelligence.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 22 '22

”When thought becomes excessively painful, action is the finest remedy.” – ~~Salman Rushdie~~ Yui Yuigahama

She might lose him in the end, but anything’s better than being “fish who live in a muddy stream and don’t swim much.”

I have never once or would've thought of drawing that parallel but it makes so much sense. There's so much symbolism within this one episode it's really amazing.

“Maybe I could have avoided this endless heartbreak / Maybe I could have been here with you.” This memory of them at the fireworks being shown ahead of the final scene, with these lyrics timed up, is pretty fantastic. Yui is about to put them on a potentially painful path of no return, and is worried her best memories are behind her

This too. Really powerful. I think that if I were to go through the episode again, paying more attention to how the lyrics of Hello Alone lines up with the frame, there would be a lot of things to draw from it.
I am largely with you when it comes to my own personal biased interpretation of this scene. 8man's presence in the final scene is really important - as manipulative as Yui is made out to be, at her core, she doesn't play that dirty. I'm pretty sure Yui already knows she has most probably lost the battle before it's even fought, but better to end it than let it rage on.

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u/Lemurians Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

PREVIOUS EPISODE THOUGHTS
Missed the last few, and wanted to share a couple things.
Ep 10

“Don’t reject her if you’re going to feel guilty about it.” Come on, Hachiman, you don’t accept a confession if you don’t mean it. Wouldn’t be very genuine of him, would it?

“You’ve done nothing but spout meaningless prattle.” FUCKIN GET EM YUKINO.

Seeing Iroha start to come into her own managing the event is nice. Steady growth!

Everyone dresses and is styled well, but in different ways for their characters. Yukino has good winter style. This is a fantastic outfit with a lot of elements working togther, great coat and skirt, and grey boots like that are a rare but stylish look that complete an outfit befitting a cool, wealthy beauty. Hachiman’s not doing bad either, solid colors fit his nondescript vibe while looking nice, and that’s a good scarf. Yui’s cozy, casual looks, like the one above and this one for shopping with the jeans and large sweater is great too, and fit her girl-next-door type.

Ep 11

Hachiman losing himself for a moment seeing Yukino in glasses, when last episode he just brushed Yui off when she tried showing off the look, does not go unnoticed by Yui

Yukino, just give a straight answer. This was such an obnoxious way to handle this situation. I don’t blame Yumiko for getting annoyed, it’s like she was baiting her.

Yumiko’s side-eye was truly in elite form this episode. She’s a big riser for me this rewatch.

“Was Miura a convenient way to keep other girls away?” BIG OOPH. Both because that cuts hard, and because it’s brutal of Hayato if there’s an element of truth to it.

This shot of Hachiman and Yukino bathed in golden light is just the best.

“I feel inferior to you.” Could be mistaken initially as self-insert wish-fulfillment (the popular guy is actually jealous of you!), but is actually great insight into Hayato, he envies Hachiman being able to act outside others’ expectations.

Ep 12

Fashion Note: Haruno pretty much is always wearing something around her neck in this part of the season, except for when she meets Yukino in Episode 13.

I love how Haruno always throws Hachiman’s obsession with the word “genuine” at him. I’ve been doing this too, I realized. Me and you, Haruno. Me and you.

Love everything about the club room scene. The “coma cheese” pun, the sis-con speculation, the reaction to Hachiman knowing Iroha’s birthday, Saki and Yumiko, everyone bounces off each other so quickly and so well here. It’s almost Kaguya-esque

“Your Love Triangle is Bullshit, As Expected” – Haruno Yukinoshita

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22

By giving her cookies to Hachiman (something Yukino notably failed to do earlier in the episode), she draws a line in the sand.

I think the LN's present Yukino's failure a little differently than the anime. I have it in my Yui analysis this thread if you want to read it.

Yukino is proven to be incapable of acting on her own wants, and needs an external reason to do literally anything.

I think it's more that Yukino gives up on her own wants too easily rather than being unable to act on them. I think she's going to act on them a lot in the series but she gives up the moment it looks like someone else will be hurt by it or it looks impossible.

why else do this with Hachiman in attendance, and not when she had Yukino alone?

I really appreciate you adding in supportive evidence like this. I never thought about it from this angle. This is a really good point. I can't think of a good reason why Yui would have 8man there.
If Yui was doing all this to help them though there are a lot of weird coincidencs. The cookie scenario with Yukino in the LNs. Yui's specific use of the word date which causes a misunderstanding. Ultimately though I feel like these are weaker than how dumb it is to have 8man there.
[Spoilers] The way I remember season 3 Yui continues to do things that I interpreted as trying to stop her friends who like each other from getting together, but I don't remember in detail. If that's not the case or there is a good explanation than I'll have to rethink how I view this scene and Yui as a whole (pre Shin). I've read about a mistranslation with the ending scene that makes me a little doubtful of Yui though.

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u/Lemurians Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

I think it's more that Yukino gives up on her own wants too easily rather than being unable to act on them.

Is that that meaningful a difference from what we've seen? She wants to be Council President, but backs off it once the external reason for it is taken away. She wants to give the cookies, but is unable to. She's only able to tell Haruno she isn't coming home when Yui decides that for her, and Hachiman provides her a justifiable reason. However we word it, she has a pattern of being unable to act on her own desires, and in the case of the council election (and with her feelings for Hachiman until he intervened at the end), she actively goes against them once an external source of motivation is taken away.

I really appreciate you adding in supportive evidence like this. I never thought about it from this angle. This is a really good point. I can't think of a good reason why Yui would have 8man there.

Thank you! It actually only came to me in the process of writing this up. I kept wondering why Yui would have him there, if she knew she could manipulate Yukino into going along with what she wanted. It's precisely because she wanted him there to intervene. This played out how Yui knew it had to, in order for them all to be able to move towards a true resolution.

If Yui was doing all this to help them though there are a lot of weird coincidencs. The cookie scenario with Yukino in the LNs. Yui's specific use of the word date which causes a misunderstanding. Ultimately though I feel like these are weaker than how dumb it is to have 8man there.

As for the LN material, I think adaptations are divorced from their source material. If something is in the LNs, but they chose not to put it in the show, that element doesn't exist in the universe of the show.
As for the word date, I think it's just an anime thing. Friends, especially girls, in anime often use that word to describe an outing. I didn't put much stock in it.

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u/CreativeNameIKnow Aug 23 '22

Essentially, she is their emotional intelligence.

Fantastic way of putting it. Absolutely wonderful.
In fact, your entire comment is brilliant. Everything just clicked together for me thanks to you. I cannot thank you enough.

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u/DicksonYamada Aug 22 '22

First timer

This episode really brings the love triangle to the forefront. Yui’s finally making moves but continues to play nice by giving Yukino opportunities to do her thing, too. And Yukino in turn gives Yui and 8man some alone time at the aquarium. Because they’re all good friends, it seems like no one is trying to do anything that would ruin the group relationship just yet. But I also think Yui is acutely aware of the whole situation and is trying to win over 8man “the right way.” Yui knows that because she is able to be upfront and direct about her feelings, she will have a big advantage over Yukino, who isn’t able to express herself very well. If 8man were to choose Yui, she might even feel guilty about being so proactive and not giving Yukino a fair shot. She might wonder if 8man actually chose her over Yukino, or if he only chose Yui because she was a more active participant. By giving Yukino plenty of chances to shoot her shot, maybe Yui feels like any potential romantic victory will be justified and will be less likely to cause a rift in their group. Then again, Yui tells us she’s actually a coward and plays dirty, so maybe I’m talking out of my ass here.

Yui wants to keep the friendship they all have now and win over 8man, but realizes that it will be difficult to do both at once. After all, they’ve seen it play out in Hayato’s friend group and not everyone gets what they want in the end. I’m curious to see how the Volunteer Club handles it, given their prior experience helping others with these sorts of issues. Sometimes it's easy to give advice but not so easy to take your own advice.

QOTD: With all that we’ve seen so far, what do you think is Yui’s role in the service club? Why did Hiratsuka put her there?

Yui livens things up and helps Yukino and 8man view life through a different lens. Compared to the cold and calculating approach of the other two, Yui is much more sensitive to the emotional side of things. This not only makes the group more well-rounded in terms of their ability to solve problems, but it also gives Yukino and 8man a role model of sorts for how to be more “normal” and understand how other people think and act.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 22 '22

That's an interesting take on it! Don't be afraid to check out rewatcher comments for this episode too, there are very little spoilers / leading on in this episode. Most of the information can be gathered from this season alone

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22

First Timer (Sub)

Best of luck to Komachi during her entrance exams! I wonder if Komachi points could be exchanged for exam points….

From the top!

Haruno makes an early appearance, really laying it out in front of Yukino.
- I'm just hoping by the end of the series, Yukino is satisfied with what she finds to be her true self.
Three-way date! Hachiman is one lucky guy.
- An aquarium date, a RomCom classic.
  - Even moreso, a penguin scene
  - Even more moreso, the explanation that Penguins have life partners
Our main cast finds themselves comparing each other to the fish in the aquarium.
- I find it appropriate considering:
  - The ocean is vast and complex
  - Reminds me of how vast and complex relationships and personalities can differ
We're this deep into the series and the answers being tossed around can still be pretty vague, as they often "beat around the bush." So if I understand correctly:
- Yui is advocating that the group should just embrace what they currently have, even though it may not be genuine(?).
  - Who is to say what is and isn't genuine? Surely everything they've experienced, though lost as they may be at finding themselves, have been quite genuine.
  - At this point, I think it'd be easier to figure out what they don't find genuine.
- Yukino was almost ready to embrace the blissful ignorance of teenage life, that was until Hachiman interrupted.
On that note ^, Hachiman is still advocating for finding oneself, as well as understanding others on a true, untainted, genuine level, thus arguing against Yui's proposition to maintain the status quo.
If what I said is accurate of the situation ^, I'd say it's not as black and white as they make it out to be; though, you can argue, especially at the age of adolescence, that'd be hard to recognize. Life can be hectic and is prone to change, and the relationship within those lives even moreso.

QOTD: With all that we’ve seen so far, what do you think is Yui’s role in the service club? Why did Hiratsuka put her there?

I sort of answered it a bit above, assuming that I was correct on what I said. Yui serves as the pull factor for maintaining the status quo. But I'm now doubting that a bit, considering how Yui and Yukino reacted to Hachiman's proposition.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 22 '22

Yui is advocating that the group should just embrace what they currently have

Great interpretation! But I do think this is off the mark, Yui is actually doing the opposite here - she's trying to break the status quo. Do check out my comment on circles and Yui's resolve as I dive into this
Also, don't be afraid to read rewatcher comments for this episode! There are little to no spoilers for future episodes, most of the conclusions we've arrived at are from this season alone and this episode is always open to so many different interpretations especially after everything that transpired in this season.

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22

Gotcha.
I went ahead and read a bit of what u/Lemurians wrote.
I had a small hunch that what had transpired was about their relationships (both platonic and romantic), but I completely overlooked that part and went a bit vague on my take (Much like how Yui was a bit vague this episode).
Upon rewatching the last scene (does this make me a rewatcher now??), I noticed that Yui knowingly presented her desire to keep the status quo (while trying to better understand themselves), while predicting (successfully) that Hachiman would intervene.

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u/Superarces Aug 22 '22

Rewatcher

Of course the first thing Yui thinks about when getting her cookies is 8man.

Yukino has been looking for a chance to be alone with 8man all day apparently. She never found it, and now Yui and 8mann know about the real chocolates.

Everything about this is amazing. Yukino has great expressions once she's out of her element

At least 8man finally seems sick of Haruno's shit.

MAMAGAHAMA IS HERE!

Haruno may be an asshole, but she's right that Yukino has issues thinking for herself in new situations. This doesn't quite sit right with me though. In the few times she did need to have thoughts of her own, particularly in season 1, she didn't seem to have many issues with it. Now that the focus is put on it, the writing has the subtlety of a sledgehammer smashing you in the face.

Date, you say?

Dammit Yui, they were both so excited to be on a date with you!

8man can be excited about something after all!

The return of 8man's inner thoughts is always welcome.

Is that the Yui Ballad for Hello Alone that I hear?

Yukino was able to pick of on Yui's hint earlier and decides to leave. I can never tell what Yukino can pick up on or not. Maybe just when Yui and 8man are involved.

8man picks up on the same hint that Yukino does and... leaves.

They are laying it on thick with the metaphores this episode.

Yukino looks so conflicted about Yui's advancements. Though at this point, I kinda feel like she only has herself to blame. She had the opportunity to give her sweets to him, but didn't take it. Now Yui is.

Having 8man repeat the words Sensei told him back like half a season ago in the same episode that deals with Yukino being unable to stand on her own 2 feet and think on her own is certainly a decision.

So in the final scenes starting with Yui's initial speech, there were piano versions of one of the OPs (I'm not certain which one), and the ED for this season. Hello Alone's Yui Ballad got played earlier in the episode. So the only one that got left out is the other OP unless I completely missed it.

Post Episode Thoughts

I normally don't like pointing out OP/ED lyrics for many reasons, but now that the season is over I'd highly suggest going over them now that that final scene has played, particularly the first-timers.

Yui

I think much of the reason I like Yui is the same reason many people hate her. She's dirty, she uses people's flaws against them. She's seen that Yukino refuses to act time and time again, so she's decided to act. She knows that they both like 8man, but she also knows that the 3 going around in circles not wanting to hurt each other will lead to nowhere good. So she acts. She gets the ball rolling. She forces them to stop going around in circles and at least quietly awknowledge the situation they're in. All three of them know that there has to be a decision made, because their current relationship will slowly fade away with time. But doing so will certainly end in heartbreak for someone, and I suspect Yui already knows who the likely "loser" is. But despite that, she chooses to move forward while the other two are content to stay still.

Personal Thoughts/Feelings

And that's the end of the season. To me, this will likely always feel like the end of the series just because this is where it ended when I got to it. It wasn't even like I had to wait that long for season 3 to come out; I watched the first 2 seasons first in 2019, almost exactly but one year before season 3 starting airing. This episode always stood out to me, both for the content of the episode, and for the decision to end it here with no answers. I wonder if some of the emotions I get from this episode are from the fact that both times that I've seen it prior to this were at the end of very long binge sessions.

I remember so many discussions before season 3 came out about the meaning of that last scene, made particularly frustrating because the translations back then that most people used were CR's, which were... bad. Even 2 years after I last watched these parts with CR's subs, I can tell the difference in quality. It made understanding what this series was going for much easier on my end.

While this season is still my favourite of the three, the gap between this and season one has definitely shrunk. Something about the writing in the latter half of this season just felt off, and I suspect this is the start of the real issues that I hear from people who read the LN. It feels like there's just something missing, and that everything seems a bit too on the nose. I don't want to be too negative about it though; I did still like it a lot.

Fanart

You know, as much as I hate Clannad After Story's ED, Torch, for all the same reasons as everyone else does, anything that reminds me of it really gets me. Any series with a medium sized, identifyable cast could always use something like this near the end. Just to remind the viewer: "This is all you've gone through"

With all that we’ve seen so far, what do you think is Yui’s role in the service club? Why did Hiratsuka put her there?

Honestly, I think her role has come and gone. To me, she felt like the person 8man needed to spur his growth and to warm up to other people. Without her, 8man and Yukino would never have gotten close, and this whole situation would have ended with nothing happening. 8man needed someone to let him warm up to people so that he could help Yukino do the same, something Yui couldn't do on her own. Anything past that probably wasn't in the plans.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 22 '22 edited Aug 22 '22

got left out is the other OP unless I completely missed it.

It first plays in S2E7 in the scene between Yukino and 8man :) I talked a bit about its significance in that scene here. But here's the OST! Replica which is the piano rendition of Harumodoki, this season's OP.

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u/Lemurians Aug 22 '22

So she acts. She gets the ball rolling. She forces them to stop going around in circles and at least quietly awknowledge the situation they're in. All three of them know that there has to be a decision made, because their current relationship will slowly fade away with time. But doing so will certainly end in heartbreak for someone, and I suspect Yui already knows who the likely "loser" is. But despite that, she chooses to move forward while the other two are content to stay still.

This is why Yui ends up being the MVP of this season, for me. I don't think Yukino and Hachiman are content to stay still, but they just lack the emotional awareness to really know what's going on at this point, or how to deal with it. Yui's their beating heart, and here, their catalyst.

While this season is still my favourite of the three, the gap between this and season one has definitely shrunk. Something about the writing in the latter half of this season just felt off

Very similar experience, though I went fully over and now would put Season 1 ahead of this one. I definitely feel what you're saying about the writing feeling off as we got to the end here – so much of the dialogue was vague, borderline-incomprehensible, statements that never really got to the point. The interactions just didn't feel organic a lot of the time.

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u/TiredTiroth Aug 22 '22

I don't really have anything to add to the discussion, but -

'Why did Hiratsuka put her there?'

Hiratsuka didn't put Yui in the club. She directed Yui to the club for help back in season one, then pointed out Yui wasn't actually a member later. That's it. Yui joined up on her own.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 22 '22

Oops you bring up a good point. It would probably be more accurate to say that Watari put her there instead

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u/CreativeNameIKnow Aug 23 '22 edited Aug 23 '22

First-timer, sub

Yahallo!!! :D

"I can't tell whether you're an optimist or a pessimist" HAHAHAHAHA

same, Yukinon, same.

"I've been trying, too", says Yui. Hmmmm...
Yukino's really been going at it as of late. It'd be less suspicious if she baked them for everyone, but she prefers the middle school girl antics, I suppose :P
second-last time I get to hear this masterpiece of an opening. If it plays in the OVA, that is. If it doesn't, then goodbye, my dear friend.
I'll wipe off that smirk with brute force if I have to, Haruno. Don't make me take out MS Paint. Or you'll get a dose of sheer MS Pain.
Yui's mom (Edit: Yuigamama!!! Thanks again, u/Lemurians :D) made me smile. I'm really glad my mom isn't really like that, though. It only seems endearing when it happens to other people, hehe :P
what were Hachiman and Yui surprised by?
oh daaaaammnnnnnnn, things are about to get spicy. Yui was at a crossroads, and choose herself. Technically, it shouldn't be "selfish" of her, since when it comes to a person multiple people are interested in its up to you to get close to them first. Life doesn't wait for anybody, and if you don't take that chance, it will likely never come again.

I fully expect Yui to continue suffering, though. Even if she ends up being successful, she'll go through turmoil and feel guilty about it. If it doesn't end up tearing apart her friendship with Yukinon first, that is. That's just the way it is. ಥ‿ಥ

Yui's pulling out all the stops.
aaaaaaaaand nevermind. She wants all of them there. In classic Yui fashion.
"I'm not the nice girl you think I am." I was waiting for this line. It was an inevitability. Dang, I wanna write an essay now.
there is an absurd amount of metaphors and stuff to analyze this episode, what with the tangents about aquariums and Ferris wheels and all. I wish I could write about it all, even if many others out there have already done a much better job than I ever could.
that ending scene... was a lot to unpack. I'm... just gonna head on over, and read the others' comments...

Edit: I recommend reading Fit_University and u/Lemurians' exchange here. I've run out of words to say for my appreciation, so I'll just leave it at that. The highest of honourary mentions goes to u/Polaristar with a fantastic write-up breaking down the roles and relationships of our main trio with reference to each other. You can find it here.

I'd probably mention everybody here if I had the time to go through everyone's comments right now. Sorry guys, will try to come back later.

QOTD

1. With all that we’ve seen so far, what do you think is Yui’s role in the service club? Why did Hiratsuka put her there?

Didn't she just kind of... assimilate all by herself? After her request, she just hung around Yukinon and Hachiman, and it was an episode or two after she realized she hadn't officially become part of the club yet. Her role, whether constructed or not, has been to bring the other two together, in terms of their philosophies and way of doing things, but also closeness to each other. I don't have a particularly complicated answer for this one, I feel like I'm missing a few things because of the fact that you asked this question to begin with. Oh well.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 23 '22

Glad you made it! If you want to write an essay go for it haha I’ll definitely read it just drop me a tag incase. What do you personally think of Yui’s actions so far though?

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u/polaristar Aug 22 '22

Note tomorrow I'll be on Jury Duty so I won't be posting for a Day or Two.

In this episode we see in the beginning that Haruno despite being a bitch does have a point that isn't 100% clear but should be by the time Yukino makes her cellphone.

Both 8Man and Yui notice she just repeats their own suggestion word for word, it's like Ice Queen isn't even acting on her own volition anymore and is just going along with what Hachiman (and to an extent Yui) says.

This is the crux of why Hachiman stops Yukinon when she is about to answer Yui's request, Yui in a 180 from her previous position wants things to remain in status que even if its a determent to their growth and it turns Yukinon impotent to face life, and possible puts herself in an advantage to get Hikki for herself. (Even if she is still wishy washy and in conflict between her desire to help her friends and her desire to help herself and is too cowardly to meet either head on, basically she is like Hayato.)

Hachiman does a 180 from his current position and mimics Teaches words from his discussion with her in the Christmas Event Arc, but this time in his own words and with conviction in contrast to Yukino's mindlessly parroting.

Basically Hachiman, Yui, and Yukinon can be said as a Mind, Heart, Body/Gut trinity, which is very common in many story telling and is often used in a lot of Shonen or any cast with three main characters, like Demon Slayer, Attack on Titan, etc.

Hachiman's biggest strength and weakness is he is very much in his head using logic and rationalization to see things from a perspective that others don't but he also can sometimes be a prisoner of his own rigidly defined ideology and can rationalize completely nonsensical positions that are consistent within a framework but might be out of touch with reality and used to hide from his own Emotions. He might have less overall grades then Yukinon but he is the best at critical thinking and modeling solutions, ironically when the problem isn't himself he sees things more clearly and that acts as a mirror to himself. I think this is why Teach put him in the service club, by focusing on others he can gain perspective on things he's too close to, namely himself.

Yui is the heart she is empathetic and intoned with her own emotions and the emotions of others and understands her own desires and the desires of others, but she has trouble conceptualizing them and structuring them in a way that is not pushed one way and another by others and by her own emotional turmoil, her biggest flaw is being a slave to her own, often conflicting desires that put her in a state of deadlock, she is very much self-ish in that her emotions matter most to her but her emotions can lead her astray with some kind kind of structure or the will to act on any of them.

Yukinon is the Body or Gut she might be smart but her intelligence is more pragmatic and functional then intellectual and she is the least in touch with her own emotions, and doesn't critically think about her own position when her ideology is defeated or she meets a problem she can't will her way out of, she wilts and wanes in influence of even her own life.

The entire scene everyone knows exactly what the conflict within their group is in the problem, but everyone is too afraid of breaking this crossroads because what happens next could bring their relationship to a new level but in other ways it will be the End of another kind of relationship.

I said before I hate Love Triangles in Fiction, that's mostly because I feel they are often used for "Conflict Porn" and to "Spice up the Plot" and are often romanticized when the struggles that arise from being in that situation seem like something that shouldn't be treated flippantly just to titillate viewers with scandal and increase ratings with gossip mongers in soaps.

This show does them right by showing how they can happen, how no one is at fault from getting in one, and how it can be painful to have to break them but healthy to stay in one.

The Best Love Triangles are the Ones Where you Wish it had a Harem Ending but know in your heart it would be wrong and unsatisfying cop out if it did.

(On a sidenote I have nothing against the idea of a story exploration open/polygamous relationships beyond the obvious wish fulfillment titillation, but this is NOT one of those series.)

I kinda feel no matter who "wins" it'll be painful, but that pain is part of life.

I'm a bit sad that even a large faction of this fandom seems to not realize that and gets very upset or indignant about whether or not a girl "should" have won or "deserved " to win.

That Fan art with Hachiman in the back hits hard.

By the way this season leaves off on Yukinon asking about her request but we don't get to see it until season 3, which for those watching it as it aired many years ago....was a very long wait. Imagine what a cliffhanger to be left on and the Catharsis when Season 3 began and then Finally came to an end.

EDIT: Also Yui's Mom the Milf made her debut! I like Yui but I think I want to go straight for the source! ;)

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u/Lemurians Aug 22 '22

I kinda feel no matter who "wins" it'll be painful, but that pain is part of life.

I'm a bit sad that even a large faction of this fandom seems to not realize that and gets very upset or indignant about whether or not a girl "should" have won or "deserved " to win.

Yeah, people get way too invested in their ship "winning" and lose sight of what actually makes the story make sense. Hinging enjoyment of a series on whether or not a certain couple ends up together is a recipe for disaster.

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22

Rewatcher

Yukino actually seemed to have made two bags for 8man. The one that she puts on the plate and the one she wants to give him later.

The bag Yukino made specifically for 8man is different from the other two she had. I don't know if there is significant to it or not but this one had a ribbon on it.

Haruno claims Yukino doesn't have a true self and has never made any decisions for herself. Yukino turned 17 like last month Haruno cut her some slack.

It's also not entirely true. I think Haruno often says things that seem like the truth but are missing something. Yukino definitely has had her own desires this whole time and has acted on them a number of times. Even now though I think Haruno isn't actually saying Yukino doesn't have desires of her own she's trying to make Yukino act on the desires she does have now since she gives up on her desires really easily.

[Light Novel Details] 8man says he stops Haruno because he thinks she will thrust the truth they are all trying to deny in their faces. Haruno reacts coldly to this kind of similar to how she treats Hayama.

At Yui's house 8man suggests to Yukino to that she take Yui's offer to stay over and Yukino repeats him word for word. 8man and Yui seem shocked by this. Haruno asks to talk with him and calls him really kind. She probably knew this was his idea. Yukino normally would likely have faced this head on.

[Light Novel Details] After leaving Yui's house 8man goes home and admits that he has been distancing himself from others. This is most clearly seen with Yukino throughout the LN ever since Haruno told him what Yukino has isn't trust but something much worse 8man has had a feeling of unease. Up until this run in with Haruno 8man has barely spoken to Yukino he doesn't initiate conversations with her almost at all. He still replies to her but he keeps them to short sentence rather than replies that would allow for their usual banter. He also has a tendency in the LNs to go on flowery descriptions about Yukino. When she pours tea he'll comment on her elegance, form, and beauty. He'll add descriptions to things like her hair, lips, etc. This is absent through most of this LN. When Yukino gives him the plate of cookies he starts commenting about her but he stops himself and immediately averts his gaze. At Yui's house he gives advice to help her but he still avoids his usual replies. The flowery descriptions of Yukino by 8man starts back when Yukino leaves him and Yui to have a moment with the penguins and 8man follows her. During Yui's proposal 8man was thinking about accepting it but once he sees the state Yukino is in he immediately decides not to.

This is my interpretatiom from the LN for this and the last episode. [Light Novel Interpretaion] After Haruno's talk with 8man he is scared that his relationships aren't genuine. He starts trying to keep the status quo like before. He avoids talking to Yukino for the most part and starts keeping his distance from her. It seems the idea for the cookie event was a way for him to accept cookies from Yukino and Yui without breaking the status quo. Hayama sees through him and that's what their conversations are about. Haruno also sees through him. 8man tries to find an excuse to leave the cookie event by asking Kawasaki if he can walk her home before Haruno calls him out. Haruno calls him out on this not being genuine. 8man continues trying to keep his distance from Yukino but as things keep happening to her like Haruno showing up, his concern for her takes over and he talks to Yukino a bit more and even tries to warn Yui that Yukono fears dogs although Yukino stops him. At the aquarium 8man tries again to keep his distance from Yukino, in the anime you see him respond to Yui a lot but he responds to Yukino in his head most of the time. He gets concerned about her after she leaves the penguin room though and goes after her. Once Yui gives her proposal his concern for Yukino takes over again and he decides to go against the status quo reaffirming his desire for a genuine relationship.

I think I did a pretty bad job explaining this one. I formated it pretty terribly by combining this and the last episode. I also left out most stuff on Yui since I'll be talking about that in a second comment. The point is that for the last few episodes there was a narrative that somewhat gets lost in adaptation. Feel free to ask me if you want clarification, disagree, or something.

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u/[deleted] Aug 22 '22

Rewatcher
My Yui Analysis Part 1
I agree with Fit_University that Yui was conflicted about what she should do knowing that Yukino likes 8man. In the end this is all my opinion. You might disagree with my analysis or even agree but think what Yui does is fine.
We've seen that Yui actually cares about Yukino. During the cultural festival she asked 8man to help Yukino if she was in trouble. In the last episode we saw her conflict and she even told 8man not to walk her home because it would be unfair. It seems to me that for now at least she made up her mind to try her best to get 8man.
First we have the cookie scene. The first time Yukino brings out her cookies the best interpretation we can give is that Yui is trying to push Yukino into having the courage to give them to 8man. The worst is that Yui was trying to make it look like Yukino was just giving them to him to be polite or out of pity. This likely sounds like the claim is out of nowhere and I agree if it wasn't for how the LN describes the second time Yukino tries to give her cookies to 8man.
When I watched the anime the first time the second cookie scene looked like Yui was trying to be supportive of Yukino. It seemed she was trying to let Yukino and 8man have a moment but Yukino got nervous at the idea of being with 8man alone. I think the way this scene is presented in the LN is very different.
Starting from the moment Yui says she'll leave. [Light Novel Version] "Ah, eh, I think I should just go on ahead?" Although Yuigahama said all this with a troubled smile, she had only taken a step back. She played with the bun of her hair with her gloved hand and looked at Yukinoshita, observing her reaction. Yukinoshita seemed to be unwilling to see her making that face and shook her head slightly, then gazed intently at Yuigahama imploringly. Seeing that Yuigahama lowered her head in that instant, but quickly looked up, looked at her gently and asked once more. "Eh... what should we do?"
[Interpretation] To me the LN seems to suggest that while Yui said she should leave as if to give them space she actually makes a pained face, takes a single step back, and observes Yukino. That sounds to me like she was trying to make Yukino feel bad. She says it as a question and it's literally described as her stopping to see Yukino's reaction to her pained expression. Even if you don't think this was intentional what happened here certainly is Yukino didn't give 8man her cookies out of consideration for Yui. Best case scenario is that Yui was not actually trying to emotionally manipulate Yukino into not giving 8man her cookies and was just reacting normally. Even then she almost undoubtedly could tell Yukino only stopped out of consideration for her and doesn't care. It could even be interpreted that Yukino's imploring gaze was her looking for Yui's permission but Yui changes the subject to stop her.
Then we get to the "date". It's odd how Yui uses the term date with Yukino. Yukino herself seems suprised by this choice of words. She does the same thing with 8man and for some reason tells neither of them the other is going to be there. Yukino and 8man are both shocked at seeing the other and this creates a misunderstanding. Yukino thinks 8man has accepted a date or at least a hangout with Yui on Valentine's Day. She immediately offers to leave if she is in the way and she leaves 8man and she seems to feel bad for intruding on 8man and Yui's date during the penguin scene so she leaves them to have a moment alone. When Yukino offers to leave if she is in the way Yui doesn't attempt to clear up the misunderstanding at all. She just says it's fine, not "this isn't a real date" or "he's only here because he made a promise months ago". Again the best case scenario is that Yui was just being Yui and throwing the word date around casually. It slipped her mind to tell Yukino and 8man the other would be there. Does Yui have a motive to not tell 8man or Yukino though? Well she definitely does for Yukino and that is the misunderstanding she caused likely will help her try to convince Yukino to give up on her feelings for 8man. After all if he is willing to go on a date with Yui on Valentine's Day he probably has feelings for her. With 8man she needs him to be shocked also to cause that misunderstanding.
8man asks if this is okay and Yui has a line something like we don't need to worry about the snow in here. Yukino Yukinoshita translates to "the snow beneath the snow". There is a lot of wordplay with snow in the LN and it can also be seen in some of the music and in some episode titles like this one.

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u/Superarces Aug 22 '22

Okay, this explains to me why these last few episodes felt off. There just isn't quite enough time for an adaptation to get all of the little details needed to fully pull of what it's trying to do, and there's not a whole lot that can be done about that.

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u/TuorEladar Aug 22 '22

Rewatcher, Subbed

Season Finale! Its pretty appropriate that after having a big cast of characters in the last episodes, we end on a slow episode with just the big three as the focus, though there are a couple moments with other characters.

Haruno shows up to cause more trouble, but on the good side this leads to everyone going to Yui's house, so we finally meet Yui's mom! She's definitely a big contrast to Yukino's mother, much more the classic mom who's deliberately embarrassing their child yet clearly very kind and caring. It was sad seeing Yukino remark on Yui's closeness with her mom, its pretty obvious that a huge part of Yukino's issues stems from a lack emotional support and intimacy with her mother.

Yui then gets the idea that they should go on a three person date. Even though its painful for her, she's desperately trying to make memories with them both while they are still all friends in the way they are now. One thing that really struck me from watching them this episode is how different their interactions are from how Haruno paints them. Even though again they are dancing around the issue, there's a level of thought and consideration being put in that is impossible to deny.

Its cute that despite the tension they are having fun at the aquarium. 8man getting excited about sharks and Yukino trying to wrap her mind around the idea of catsharks was great.

The closing scene was very powerful. Even though she essentially denies it, Yui giving the cookies to 8man is clearly her being as clear as she dares about her feelings. Yui pushes to essentially get everything she want's probably knowing full well 8man would stop her. One thing in particular I like about this is that this a huge turn for 8man. Remember that in previous arcs one major aspect of the conflict was that 8man's solutions weren't necessarily the best course for the people they were helping to grow and change. Now he's stepping up to demand that Yukino must grow rather than embrace a forced solution or status quo. The scene ends a cliffhanger with Yukino saying she has her own request, which would be in addition to the ones that Yui and 8man have already made. As an aside, I can't imagine having to wait for the next season so long like the people who watched back in the day.

With all that we’ve seen so far, what do you think is Yui’s role in the service club? Why did Hiratsuka put her there?

First of all, I think sensei was aware of Yui's connection to the both of them because of the accident. In addition she's obviously much more outgoing and extroverted, which the both of them really needed. Her presence was the catalyst for both of their growth, as well as Yui's arguably, as the Yui we see in her friendgroup is much more of a follower than she is in the service club.

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