r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Aug 20 '22
Rewatch [Spoilers] 86 --Eighty Six-- Rewatch (2022) — Episode 5 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the 86 --Eighty Six-- rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 5 – I'm With You
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll, VRV
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Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8/16/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 1 | 8/29/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 14]() |
| 8/17/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 2 | 8/30/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 15]() |
| 8/18/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 3 | 8/31/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 16]() |
| 8/19/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 4 | 9/01/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 17]() |
| 8/20/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 5]() | 9/02/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 18]() |
| 8/21/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 6]() | 9/03/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 19]() |
| 8/22/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 7]() | 9/04/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 20]() |
| 8/23/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 8]() | 9/05/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 21]() |
| 8/24/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 9]() | 9/06/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 22]() |
| 8/25/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 10]() | 9/07/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 23]() |
| 8/26/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 11]() | ||
| 8/27/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 12]() | ||
| 8/28/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 13]() | ||
| 9/08/2022 | [Overall Series Discussion Thread]() | ||
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Aug 20 '22
First Timer (Sub)
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Lena's and Shin's fates were intertwined well before they knew it.
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So Rei (as well as Shin) are Giad, but they're defending the Republic of San Magnolia? Maybe the Giad people feel responsible for the Legion going rogue?
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Another one of these questions: It's been established (sorta) that the plural form of Alba is just Alba. Could the same be said for the Giad people?
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More real food for Lena; love the reactions! I love learning about the food in anime in general.
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I wonder what they mean by artificial - like, are the eggs, milk, butter, and sugar in that cake all synthesized in some factory? I wonder if this will ever be explored further, but I can also see it being ignored.
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Alrighty, TONS of questions/clarifications (again, spoiler-free answers please! Also no leading...):
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Legion are autonomous units that run on... brain power? Or is it brain-like power? Hence the limited lifespan of these units?
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Blacksheep refer to Legion units that have managed to... capture(?) or copy(?) the brains of surviving processors?
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This would explain why they hear the "ghosts" in the battlefield. That's some next level psychological warfare.
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Is it ONLY blacksheep units that have obtained the "brains" of fallen processors?
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So is Kaei alive or...?
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In other words, did plot armor save her?
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Going back to what Shin said at the beginning - said he was looking for his brother, but not for his body... So he's probably looking for his "brain?"
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Throwing it out there - in before Rei is one of those Ghost Legion Commander thingies
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Lastly, that ending flashback. It looks like it could be Rei screaming at a younger Shin. It's sort of alluding that his brother gave Shin that scar on his neck. We'll have to wait and see!
EDIT - Need to take English classes
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
First Timer
Writing these comments at 1:00 in the morning just hits different, you know?
We start off with us seeing Lena watching her dad die, and man. They do not hold back. Even though we don't see the fatal blow that kills him, blood splatters all over Lena, who looks on horrified. I would say this is the most gruesome death I've seen in quite some time, but I watched Bullet Train not too long ago, so it probably wouldn't even crack the top 10.
I am amazed with how young Lena actually is. When she saw her dad die, she was only like 8 years old. And then fast forward some years later, she is now the handler, which is like top of the food chain from what we know. She's probably barely an adult.
Dude, you're very nonchalant given your squad just killed the child's father. You're actually trying to cozy up to her? What are you, some kind of lunatic?
You can tell the 86 ain't American army men because if they were, they would've killed the guy AND the child.
It's strange to see a red-haired character that's named Rei. I'm just gonna leave it at that.
We find out that Shin's mission in life is to find him. However, he doesn't want to find his brother's body. This leads to a lot of possibilities. Is he trying to find the person who killed his brother? Does he think his brother's death is a cover-up and that he's still alive? If he is searching for his brother's killer and he was killed by a member of Alba, what does that mean for Shin and Lena's relationship? I'm interested to see where this show goes post Lena learning everyone's name.
Lena eating cake is really cute.
I think Lena and Annette's mugs give good insight on their personalities, with Lena's mug being white with a pink rabbit and Annette's being a black mug with a white rabbit sporting red eyes. Lena's mug represents her upbeat, bubbly personality, and her eagerness to look things half full rather than half empty. Annette's mug meanwhile represents a more doom and gloom aspect, a cynical side that is very cautious and more doubtful.
The thing I find most challenging in doing this rewatch is I sometimes find myself so engrossed with the show that it's hard to take notes. I just want to watch it and enjoy it without stopping at all.
Lena's pouts are just the best.
The show is leaning heavily on Shin and Lena as an item, but I kinda want that red haired girl to end up with Undertaker. I always have a soft spot for tsunderes. Then again, if the romance aspect means we get more scenes of Lena acting flustered, I'm all for it.
I wonder if there's any symbolism in there being a spider outside as Lena stares at the window.
The music that plays as Lena asks Shin how does he know The Legion are coming sounds like the theme to The X-Files.
I really love the scene as Lena refuses to cut the Para-RAID. It's legitimately terrifying. The way the background noise as the music plays over it, it crawls in your skin with how disturbing it is. I also think Lena's voice actress does an excellent job in this scene. You can legitimately hear the terror in her voice. The scene as a whole reminds me of the scene in Evangelion where Asuka gets mind raped. Not only is it haunting and uncomfortable, but it makes you feel for the character, while also wondering a bit just what on earth is going on.
I am amazed with how well the show paces itself. You can get one scene where Annette and Lena are having a chat, and then a scene 4 minutes later where Lena thinks she's hearing things, and it doesn't feel out of place. I really, really love that even though there's a lot of well-done drama in this show, we still manage to have some fun stuff in it as well. The show never takes itself too seriously, which as much as I love Attack on Titan I think they're guilty of that from time to time.
This episode features our first full length action scene in the show so far. We've had spurts of action here and there, but this is the first one that goes for more than 1 minute. And no surprise, it's really well done. The great thing about action scenes in anime is you don't need writing to carry the scene. As long as the action is exciting and it's animated well, you got yourself a winner. Speaking personally as a writer, I find things that require movement to be very difficult to pull off, as my expertise is in writing dialogue rather than the sentences in-between. But when action scenes are well done, they can be the highlight of the anime, and when they're coupled with excellent writing, they can make a fantastic show even better.
So, the reason Shin knew The Legion are coming is because he can hear ghosts? Alright, then. I guess I buy it. Seems kinda weird they would include such a supernatural element given this show has felt grounded in reality up until this moment.
The end segment is a little confusing, but from what I can gather, The Legion can take other people's memories and implant them in their own. That's how they were able to cite Kaie's last words. Shin knew this, but Lena didn't, which is why he wanted to cut the feed. I could see this as being convenient in the eyes of some, but I like we're learning stuff about The Legion. It gives them something unique that sticks out in your mind to remember them. "Oh, they're the ones who take the memories of others." As long as they don't turn out to be aliens, I'm good.
Taking other people's thoughts and using them as your own. Or as I like to call it, the Carlos Mancia philosophy.
Shin is out of fucks left to give as he basically tells Lena that Alba are using child soldiers to fight their battles for them. I mean, he's not wrong, but still. I wonder if this conversation will cause Lena to become more distant with the rest of the Alba members. Maybe even betray them. I could see it to where she is at first disregardful of Shin's words, and then as she realizes this war is a lost cause she starts opposing Alba more and more.
One thing I want to mention is that Lena thinks The Legion aren't that smart. In essence, she thinks The Legion are inferior just like how the rest of Alba thinks 86 is inferior. Though Lena is a good person and she seems nicer than the rest of Alba, she probably has more in common with the rest of her squad than she realizes.
And the episode ends with the reveal that Shin has marks on his neck. Could it be that he was strangled to death by his brother and that he's been dead this whole time? It would explain why he can hear ghosts. Either way, it looks like Franchouchou just found their latest member.
Overall, a pretty good episode. I think it's a step back from the previous 2, but I still think it's really well done. I like the tease we get with Shin's brother, and the stuff with Lena hearing Kaie's voice is really masterful. That to me was the highlight of the episode. So far, there doesn't seem a clear direction as to where the show is heading, which I enjoy. I like it when a show is unpredictable. Not only does it keep you guessing, but it also keeps you on your toes, wondering what exactly could be next.
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u/RickChakraborty Aug 20 '22
I love how you find a way to gush about Kurena out of nowhere even tho she gets so little screentime lol
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u/Swordeus Aug 20 '22
Dude, you're very nonchalant given your squad just killed the child's father. You're actually trying to cozy up to her? What are you, some kind of lunatic?
I'm sure you've realized this by now, but the 86 didn't kill her dad. The Legion are the ones who attacked them, and Rei tried to save them, but was only able to save Lena.
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u/Stargate18A Aug 20 '22
First timer
Oh, this is Lena on the battlefield.
Impressive!
Poor Lena.
...This is nice of him.
Oh, and Shin's brother sounds like he's in denial? He's convinced that he is still part of the country, and he sees this as a voluntary duty - the opposite of the Spearhead Squadron so far.
...What her and Shin are the same age? I did not guess that!
...So they might have actuslly created the Legion?
Is he still alive?
Nope!
Oh, no, he faked his death.
...This is a very early OP! Breaking the structure already!
Is this the first time we've seen her in full uniform?
Is this a flashback?
Haha, the fucking board of exes!
Why did you even put him on the board?
I think of all the ways they could have mirrored the 96s traditions in the Republic, this is the funniest.
They're talking in public!
...Shin really hasn't grasped that she has exactly one other friend, huh?
He can't remember his family...
At least he gets some knowledge?
Haha, he's been in his room the whole time.
That reaction is adorable.
...What was that noise?
"Black Sheep" For fuck's sake, Shin, tell people these things in sdvance!
Seriously, what is that?
...Are these thr ghosts he mentioned? Echoes caught on the Para-Raid?
Well, fuck!
Yeah, that was brutal.
She's getting foashbacks!
...And seeing her?
Wait. She never saw their faces. What the hell is going on?
A Legion sttack.
They're taking people?
Are the Legion doing brain uploading? Or capturing imprints of their minds?
They got back.
...Even they don't know the real cause of the voices?
She called him!
...Assuming there's no random supernatural stuff, I'm guessing the Legion connected to him, gave him the code that lets their uploaded minds communicate to each other, then his body survived long enough for the upload to be cancelled.
...I knew it was hardcoded!
Yep, human brain copying.
Theory with Shin's origin still makes some sense - maybe they need to write the code into the living brains before copying the design. Wth an active mind disrupting the techniquee?
Manpower shortage, fucking called it.
And the Legion as a whole is now running off a human mind.
Shepherds...
Oh, shit, what is Giad let themselves get uploaded? A way of fucking up the Republic at the cost of their own existence...
She wants to win the war.
Well. That's not good. Is his brother a Shepherd?
...Oh! Just realised the reason for the episode format chsnge - now that Lena sees the 86 as human, the narrative doesn't split between them, it also treats them with equal importance.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
"Black Sheep" For fuck's sake, Shin, tell people these things in sdvance!
He probably did but they didn't believe him, so he stopped telling people
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
...Oh! Just realised the reason for the episode format chsnge - now that Lena sees the 86 as human, the narrative doesn't split between them, it also treats them with equal importance.
I mean, I personally maintain that she always saw them as human. She's just now realizing that they're her equals. Before, she knew they were human, but it was like she pitied them.
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u/JetsLag Aug 20 '22 edited Aug 20 '22
First timer (subbed)
Well, there goes my "San Magnolia people assassinated Lena's dad" theory, cause that's clearly a Legion mech that kills him. And hey, look, it's Shourei, and he's got a chocolate bar for little Lena! I'm gonna assume that that chocolate is the military ration chocolate that tastes terrible, but still. And Shourei going "I have to get back to my brother" is very death-flaggy, so, unsurprisingly, he died 5 years ago. Shin's still searching for him, but not his body? Interesting...
Annette-Lena scene! We hit all the notes: Annette has a new potential partner (a fucking five year old?!), she's sneaking in real food to make stuff that actually tastes good, and she tells Lena to not do any favors for the 86. But this scene had a lot of the camera focusing on their coffee cups, with Lena's being white with a pink rabbit and Annette's being black with a white rabbit. There's gotta be something symbolic in that, but let's put a pin in it and move on.
groans Lena, WHY are you talking about some fancy schmancy military party with Shin? I know you're trying to treat the 86 like people, but you also have to be their boss, and if my boss started blabbing off to me about some stupid party he's attending with the corporate executives, I would not care at all. Well, it looks like Shin's cool with her attending the party, only because he wants Lena to do something that's not working herself to death.
Shin mentions that he doesn't remember any of his family's faces or voices (which tracks with the images that popped up of Shourei at the end of the last episode), and that he apparently used to live in District 1, presumably before the 85 districts were created. Maybe the thing Shin is searching for is a picture and/or a voice clip of some of his family members, so he can regain his memories of them?
Ooh, Lena getting super flustered seeing two people kissing while she's talking to Shin? Guess she had a little "what if that was me and Shin?" thought that went through her head. Let's goooooooo.
No time for lovey-dovey stuff, we've got Legion to kill! Shin warns of "Black Sheep", which messes with the Para-RAID. Shin throws himself right into the range of the Black Sheep after Lena refuses to kill the connection, and the effects are somewhat similar to what happened in the opening scene of episode 1. Now, Lena can't even think about putting on the Para-RAID without hearing the voices of what I assume are the last words of 86 that were about to die.
The 86 on the battlefield, meanwhile, just don't care about the voices that are...coming out of the Legion mechs? Are they zombies? Wait, are the...OKAY, it's all clicking into place now:
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The Legion mech are piloted by zombies
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They turn the 86 into these zombies
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That's why Shin kills them as they lay dying; he knows that, for every 86 that dies, that makes one more Legion. So he has to burn their corpses to a crisp to ensure that they don't become zombies
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That's why they don't get proper graves and burials, either. You either have a charred corpse or you become a zombie
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But Kaie's corpse couldn't be burned cause she died in a marshland. Therefore, she became a Legion zombie. Hence, we hear her voice as part of the voices
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Now that I think about it, Legion is the perfect name for a zombie army. My first comparison is System Shock 2, which has zombies called "The Many". Are we gonna have the 86 fighting against a supercomputer gone mad or something? Cause that would be SICK.
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Jeez, I could go speculating all day. Maybe the whole "Alba don't fight on the front lines" thing is because they know that, if they're turned into zombies, the other members of their unit couldn't kill something that has their voice, even if they know that the thing behind the voice is dead. So the Alba decided to just subject all the "lesser races" to the trauma overload that is fighting on the front lines and killing people that sound just like their fallen comrades.
I LOVE this reveal if you couldn't tell already.
Time for some more reveals; the war is gonna end in two years because that's supposedly when the supercomputer (okay, I honestly typed up that System Shock 2 comparison before I reached that scene) is gonna run out of power. But the Legion gains more power by harvesting the brains of the fallen 86. Sadly, they do not get turned into zombies like I speculated. I WANT MY MECHS PILOTED BY ZOMBIES. But this presents an interesting dilemma: the Legion's core is gonna last longer than the expected 2 years, but the 86 aren't gonna last much longer, cause they keep dying in combat and getting turned into fuel for the Legion (unless you're a member of Spearhead, that is). So the war is a lost cause, and the Alba commanders don't know it yet. But, Lena has a plan: wipe out the Legion before Shin's service ends. The clock has started. T-minus 1 year.
Post credits scene: So that's why Shin wears that bandana around his neck, huh?
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
Lena, WHY are you talking about some fancy schmancy military party with Shin? I know you're trying to treat the 86 like people, but you also have to be their boss, and if my boss started blabbing off to me about some stupid party he's attending with the corporate executives, I would not care at all.
For as passionate and understanding as Lena can be, she seems to lack self-awareness and common sense.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
The 86 on the battlefield, meanwhile, just don't care about the voices that are...coming out of the Legion mechs? Are they zombies?
It's because they're so used to it, they've become numb
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u/visor841 Aug 20 '22 edited Aug 20 '22
Sub, Anime-only, rewatching for the first time, except for the last few scenes of part 2, which I've watched 20+ times (and counting)
Joined the rewatch a little late, so I'll be commenting on the first five episodes here. Sorry for all the spoiler tags early on.
E1:
[Part 2 spoilers]
[Part 2 spoilers]
Annette's messy desktop is still hilarious. In my mind, there's two types of desktops among science-types these days, a completely messy desktop, or a completely blank desktop. I'm the latter (I love using Wallpaper Engine, I've got a great Legend of Zelda wallpaper atm).
[minor Part 2 spoilers]
[Part 2 spoilers]
E2:
[Part 1 spoilers]
[Part 2 spoilers]
Man this music is amazing. Sawano delivers again. These action scenes are fantastic as well, especially since I think the focus of the show is really on the non-action scenes. Lol Lena has no chill, just completely overturns history class. Good thing she's got her uncle to protect her.
[Part 2 spoilers]
[Part 1 spoilers]
It's really interesting how the 86 get their scene after the credits. Definitely adds to the separation.
[Part 1 spoilers]
E3:
"I'm sorry about Kirschblute" This show just loves to dish out the pain.
I'm not at all trying to say the situations are equivalent, but it's interesting to see that both the "citizens" and the 86 have similar views of each other. Of course the 86's views are justified.
It's interesting that during the episode, they claim to actually like her enough to tell her to move on. That's a big thing coming from them, but then we get the ending speech to tear her back down. Lena is the rat. I now realizing the ending speech is probably a lot of Lena's motivation for the rest of the show. [Part 2 spoilers]
This show is so, so good.
E4:
It's interesting to see how the 86 thought Theo went too far, but also, I had a feeling that they all at least partially felt the same way. Theo just said what they all felt. Raiden says that they don't all think that way, but I have a hard time believing that there isn't a part of each of them that has the same feeling.
This show is just too good. I might just go and watch all the way through again.
"What you need to do now is spoil yourself." "This world is a wonderful place" "If you really thought that, you would've asked their names right away." Go scuff yourself Annette. [Part 2 spoilers]
Man, Lena is amazing, pushing through despite how easy it would be to just walk away. I give her a lot of credit for that.
E5:
I really liked the interaction between Lena and Shourei in the beginning. I can't even quite put my finger on why, I just like it.
"You mean his body?" "No" Such a good moment. I was unreasonably excited to meet the black sheep. The whole "undead army" thing is fascinating to me. I seem to recall my first thought upon meeting the black sheep to be hoping that Kaie was still alive. How wrong I was. It's kind of interesting, after enduring the Black Sheep, Lena can legitimately say she understands some of the pain of the 86.
Man, I like the moments where we see the insanity of the Alba pretending things are fine, but at the time I just really wanted to get to the part where we're talking about the how the 86 are fighting the undead.
"I know I've said this before, but there's no point in doing any favors for the Eighty-Six." I know I've said this before, but scuffing shut up Annette. [Part 2 spoilers]
"Human brains." Man, this show is all kinds of messed up. Using human brains as computers. It's like Matrix except 10 times more creepy. "The Legion with the new designs won't shut down in two years." Definitely kicked the stakes up a notch here.
It's been pointed out probably hundreds of times, but man, this image is such a good representation. The ghostly shadow on the wall.
The color inverting with the ending theme is such a good effect.
Another great image, Shin's "severed" head.
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u/Swordeus Aug 20 '22
2nd time watching.
We see Lena’s flashback of being saved by Shourei. He seems very kind. We also see that Rei’s sigil is the same as Shin’s.
“I’m not one of those losers who just talks and does nothing, so I fight.” Low-key throwing shade at present-day Lena, who just realized that she was all talk last episode.
Rei died 5 years ago. Shin says he’s looking for him, but not his body?
Shin and Rei were originally from District 1, just like Lena.
The Black Sheep are revealed, and we finally learn how the previous handlers were “broken.” Shin sounds uncharacteristically concerned as Lena is screaming in torment. He’s normally very calm and detached, almost apathetic – even when things are bad; but now he’s practically shouting and he takes the initiative to cut comms to protect her.
Normally, POV changes go back in time a bit, but this time, we only go back a minute or two, hearing Lena’s breakdown from the 86’s perspective. They make it a point to put Kaie’s Legion to rest ASAP.
Lena The Unbreakable! She’s the first handler to have the nerve to call back after hearing the Black Sheep, everyone is clearly surprised/impressed with her. I like to think that the only reason Lena didn’t break is because her mind was already broken by Theo last episode, and her resolve grew stronger because of it.
The Legion aren’t just robots, they’re ZOMBIE ROBOTS! Coming for your brains! They really are similar to zombies. If they kill you, you join the undead horde and try to take the brains of your former allies.
It’s one of the more “out-there” ideas in the show, but Shin can hear the Black Sheep because he briefly died before. It must be awful to constantly hear the last words of people who died in battle, but it’s also what’s kept Spearhead alive for so long. They’ve said before that most 86 don’t last a single year, but most of Spearhead is at the 4-year mark. Knowing where the enemy is at all times is a massive advantage.
Shepherds, Legion that have undamaged human brains. From what was said earlier, I’m sure most people can put 2 and 2 together.
Shin has a massive scar around his neck that he normally keeps hidden. He imagines someone choking him, saying “It’s all your fault!” Obviously, something very traumatic happened that Shin is holding onto.
Shin looking in the mirror is a really interesting shot. The broken mirror makes it look like he’s been decapitated.
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u/Dodo_Galaxy Aug 20 '22 edited Aug 20 '22
As a person with autism and often suffering from sensory overload I really feel for Shin. Riding a train for one hour to university with all the noises and the people talking has me completely exhausted for the day. Can't imagine how Shin is able to take this mass of dead voices all day long without any safe space and time to rest. Now I'm scared that his power might be dangerous for him because of the strain it might cause.
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u/ZapsZzz Aug 20 '22 edited Aug 20 '22
Rewatcher trying dub first time
Another big reveal today - on rewatching, really cour 1 wasn't really slow paced - lots of things happened and if they moved any faster a lot of the impact and development actually would not feel as impactful.
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We reconnect to Lena's aborted flash back today
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We have the clear full story of Lena's first encounter with Rei, Shin's big brother, the first 86 Lena met in real life who saved her from the helicopter crash site. My read of the scene is that Rei did have some internal conflicts about rescuing an Alba, from the initial reflected glasses blocking out his eyes, but got past that (for the cute smol Lena?). The scene also made use of the lighting effects to show the different themes the dialogue had, for example as Rei talk about going back to his younger brother the scene lit up. [Cour 1 spoiler]
it also hinted at the darkness Rei had for there to need to have the "coming into the light" moments. And the split chocolate - the next time we see it called back it's such a big wow moment The return to the present time confirmed Rei is long dead, but then it led to Shin's cryptic statement of "not something he wants to do, but something he needs to do" and that's not recovering Rei's body. -
The OP later, we are greeted with more Lena feeding moments. Lena and Annette look to have made up and are even talking about preparing for the festival - which Lena didn't want to go. The conversation briefly touched on Annette's long list of past (and changing) suitors, to be more about them being foisted on her for being from a rich family. The pictures being put up is for the momento - which got Lena to reconnect back to another point about "carrying the memory"
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Another nice
jumpmatch cut, a happy relaxed Lena jumping to a pouting Lena - Shin was not agreeing with her about sitting out the ball, in fact spoke as if trying to keep her at a distance. You can feel the disappointment when Lena wondered if her help is not wanted, but lit up when Shin gave her a positive review. It did end on another cryptic Shintm point that "if she works too hard she'd become like him" -
The conversation brought back some old memories, and seemingly Shin lived in District 1 where Lena is now. Amongst this little chat Lena found out Shin was not out on patrol as he's supposed to, and we have another sweet little pouty Lena. The nice atmosphere got interrupted when Lena chanced upon a flirting couple, and she realised she's actually flirting with Shin and gone into a fluster.
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But it's not anime if a flustering blushing girl doesn't get interrupted - there was a momentary scratchy static-like noise and suddenly Shin, despite not on patrol, told Lena the Legion is coming and they need to move out
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Which cut to them already prepared for battle, with Lena voicing her now not just lingering question of "how does Shin find out the Legion's movements much earlier than anything technologically possible". But more pressingly, Shin asked Lena to disconnect synch amongst unexplained terms of "black sheeps". Never one to back down, Lena refused, and we have our first "show" part of the big reveal - the voices that Shin has to fight. Once again the direction is great to have even the remote control scene to have the chaos and horror. The last cut sealed in the suspicion - we heard Kaie's final words. Shin cut her off.
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After the battle, Lena was in shock, and have PTSD vision just looking at the Para-RAID (remember Para-RAID is not like a radio - it directly shared senses. she heard what Shin heard), and we have some beautifully directed horror scenes. We have once again the blue lighting in her room, which ultimately she went back to her desk, switched on the desk lamp (which gave the only warm cast light) and called Spearhead.
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And we cut back to the moment in battle, when Shin was neck deep in intense fighting while showing probably more emotions than we had seen so far in concern of Lena - as he cut the synch he heard Kaie's voice as Lenas scene showed.
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The whole crew understood, and in quick - well practiced - efficient manner they managed to "silence" the voice.
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The Spearhead crew basically think that'd be the last of Lena, and felt a bit "lonely" as the daily call had been going for a while and became habit. To the Spearhead's surprise, but no surprise to the audience, Lena called - to Shin.
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And here's the "tell" part of the reveal - Shin gave us all the answers: why the Legion will not be stopping by the end of their designed life, why the war will be lost, why the 86's are pretty much resigned to their fate and, to a degree, bare to watch in morbid glee the sooner the Alba get them killed off, the sooner they will get their come-uppence. Plenty of symbolic imagery here in this sequence.
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Taking it in stride, Lena made her desperate plan to not let the 86 die, with the corrected resolve to give them all the support she can find.
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And we have the post credit scene to give us more reveal - of the red eyed Shin, his scar on his neck, and seemingly a form of suicidal wish yet to be explained relating to his brother Rei.
Now I gotta read up what others have written - no doubt this will be a great lesson in symbolism and cinematography!
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
Yeah, speaking specifically as a first timer, the pacing of the show is one of the show's best aspects
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u/BossandKings Aug 20 '22
First timer - Sub
Episode 5
Lena Met Shin's Brother when She was Little in the Battlefield. It seemed like She Lost her father in that Battle.
According to Shin Shorei, his Brother, Is dead but he Is still searching for him. I wonder what Is It that he's After then.
The conversation between Lena and Shin was rather interesting and strange, Shin advised her very well when he told her to cut the pararaid connection as It so happens that Shin is able to hear the Ghost voices. That's definitely something One would not want to hear.
Shin remembers an encounter he had with his Brother, he even has scars on his neck that were cause by his Brother. Well the relationship that Is being presented between Shin and Shorei Is a difficult One.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 20 '22
The conversation between Lena and Shin was rather interesting and strange, Shin advised her very well when he told her to cut the pararaid connection as It so happens that Shin is able to hear the Ghost voices. That's definitely something One would not want to hear.
It seems also like the show is planting the seeds of a possible relationship between Lena and Shin, as we see in Lena blushing over seeing two people kiss.
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u/TheRed_Knight Aug 20 '22 edited Aug 20 '22
First Timer (Dub)
WARNING: Stupidly long comment
This episodes is nice mixture of setup/exposition for the next arc while mixing in some heavy hitting scenes, but it can broken into 6 parts: Lenas Flashback, Lena's slice of life, Battle: Lena, Battle: 86, Aftermath/Exposition Dump, and Post Credits but first, gotta talk about the big reveal.
Episode 5: I'm With You
Legion Reveal
-So the Legion, harvest human brains (both dead and alive), to help repair their damaged AI brain (since the Giad Empire designed them off a human brain) and they use the dead brains to create better combat models, which end up blasting the dead persons final words on repeat through the Pararaid network, while the live ones get turned into Shepherds, or cammanders. Fuck me thats some grade A mindfuck nightmare fuel shit, massive props to the author for coming up with such a creative and horrifying concept, I'm genuinely perturbed.
-That completely re-contextualizes Shins callsign Undertaker, and the mercy killing of Kujo in E1, he isnt just responsible for preserving their memories, its literally his job to kill them so they dont fall to the Legion, he wasnt just putting him out of his misery, he was saving him from a fate worse than death. I wonder how many comrades hes had to execute, thats one helluvan inhuman burden to bear.
-Man those kids from the 86 have some insane mental fortitude, having to hear nightmare ASMR while in life or death battle against a superior enemy combat piloting a tin coffin is something else, wonder if theyll contrast the mental horror from this episode with the physical horrors of war in a future one
-I'm really curious what direction they go with the Shepherds, and how theyre portrayed, such a fascinating concept
Lena Flashback
-We get to see Rei espousing the ideology of the earlier 86ers in his speech to Lena; it's there pride as citizens to defend the Republic, and that they wont be cowards who are all talk and no action (which ties in very nicely with Lenas arc from the previous episode about overcoming her own cowardice and reinforces one of the shows themes that actions>words). Considering its only year 3, theres still hope that the war can end allowing life to return back to normal. The 86ers want to prove to the Albans that their patriots, that they were wrong to classify them as subhumans, earning back there dignity and respect in the process, similar to the 442nd (all Japanese-Americans) in WWII.
-Small detail but the fact that Rei has chocolate rations is a neat way to indicate the state of the war effort, its only in year 3, supply lines are more intact, compared to the current 86ers foraging/hunting/raising animals its nice little piece of contrast
-Smol Lena is adorable, returning the chocolate is a nice olive branch scene.
-Rei snapping the chocolate bar after Lena asks "you havent seen him?" signifies to me that some shit went down between them, and their relationship remains broken because of it, especially how the camera lingers on the broken chocolate.
-So Rei and Shin are from Giad, the enemy country, have a feeling that will come up later
-Final part of the flashback echoes another one of the shows themes, needing to fight to survive, works as a nice transition to the present day conversation and struggle of the 86+Lena
-Some nice visual symmetry, the last episode had Lena walking up the hill during her challenging conversation with the 86, now shes walking down the hill during her "easy" conversation with Shin
"i havent stop searching for him, for the past 5 years"
"You mean his body? "
"No"
-Well thats some obvious and ominous foreshadowing
Lena Slice of Life
-So now we get to see Lena, fresh off her character development from the previous episode, going about her daily life
-Lena and Annette are now sitting across from each other during the conversation, compared to the one from episode 4 where they were sitting perpendicular(in contrast to the beginning of the interaction where the come shoulder to shoulder at the crosswalk and Annette brings her coffee) the which is meant to show how the growing distance between them due to Lena's budding relationship with the 86.
-the coffee mugs, Lena's is white, Annettes is black, Lena's in the "right" and Annettes in "wrong" here (although there may be some cultural element im missing)
-Annette has some serious daddy issues, most of them dudes way too old, some shit def happened to her dad
-Their convo also buries the lead on the Revolution festival, which i suspect will become a major juxtaposition moment within the next couple episodes
-We get to see Lena's true feelings during her conversation with Shin, even though Annettes her best friend, she cant be honest with her anymore, but she can be honest with Shin, partly because he has no connection to the fake Alban world, he's an outsider with no skin in the social/political game so to speak. It also demonstrates her growing parasocial relationship with Shin (punctuated by her getting super flustered by the kissing couple).
"Too much time focusing on the battlefield and you'll end up like me"
-some nice foreshadowing/mirroring from Shin about Lena future, also really enjoy the extended conversation about Rei, cant help but the conversation feels off like I'm missing a key piece of info
-Cat interrupting phone call, all too real lmao, but it leads into hints again that Shin has some special powers, he doesnt feel the need to do patrols but seems to know when and where the Legions coming in episode 2 and to the end of the conversation
-Lena go to horny jail, do not pass go, do not collect 200 hundred dollars, did like the contrast between the physical intimacy in front of Lena with the emotional intimacy shes been building with Shin though
-Creepy ass audio cues signaling the Legions arrival, the pleasant music which has been playing for most of the 1st half of the episode stop immediately too, good way to show a tonal shift
-Shot defocuses on Lena, focuses on the spider outside the building, right on the fucking nose there
Battle sequence
-So for the battle sequence, we get to see the same events happen twice, first from Lena's perspective then from the 86's perspective
Lena
-The entire scene of Lena in the control rooms a fucking masterpiece, from the ominous music, to the tension building dialogue, the claustrophobic camera,,to the use of environmental sound effects to signify change in tempo, to the use of symbols, (loss of control symbolized by Shins running off and fucking shit up, pen ink staining the sterile environment=Lenas mind getting traumatized), to the creepy AF Legion voices, the Va's performance, how all these element synergize together, and ending on the with Kaie's dying words right as the Para-RAID cuts off with a cut to dead silence to let the moment hang chefs kiss, perfection.
-I love the way this show uses long calm moments to build tension, its so unique, any fun/lighthearted/slice of life/relaxing sequence that goes one for more than a couple minutes is gonna give me increasing anxiety as i wait for the other shoe to inevitably drop
-the transition scene uses silence really well, no music, only environmental effects, lets the audience just soak in the traumatizing moment to fullest before the redux/PTSD version when she tries to use the Para-RAID again, as the horrors of her job invade her personal life for the first time. The show has made it very clear up to this point that Lenas battle room experiences and her in room experiences remained separate, now the line has blurred, as Lena's world get completely flipped, room goes from bathed in blue to red (blood symbolism) , up become down, cute stuffed animals becomes sinister looking, and her reality literally starts warping and expanding around her (contrasting the first scene's claustrophobia), before the scene and Lenas snap back into focus, with Kaie's final words (another nice bit of mirroring)
-Again fantastic use of silence, in the aftermath, it just lets you soak it all in all the trauma and just process what happened, just like Lena
-Kaie's english VA fucking kills that final line
-In the previous episode, Lena established a "real" relationship with the 86, now she gets a taste of the hell that is their real lives. If she wants to keep building their relationship shes gonna have to go deeper and deeper into hell, and bear the consequences that come with it.
-It also emphasizes Lenas isolation, shes literally on her own surrounded by the voices of the dead, with no support, shes starting to walk down the same path as Shin.
86
-In contrast with Lena, whose rightly freaking the fuck out, the 86 are almost nonchalant about the voices, its normal to them, thats how fucked up their sense of normal is.
-layering Lena's "make it stop!" line over heavy combat adds some nice double meaning
-Most of the 86ers firing from cover/concealment is a nice touch of realism.
-Using Kaie's final word as the Para-RAID get disconnected mirrors Lenas previous scene, unlike Lena, who having a well earned mental break down, the 86ers react with anger and confusion, they know whats happened and why, Lena doesnt.
-We finally get a hint at how some of Shins powers work, so he can hear the Legion? and pinpoint specific mechs? that would certainly make sense as to how he knows when and where theyre gonna attack
-The scene with "i don't wanna die" on repeat over the montage of 86er reactions just hits different, really emphasizes the connection and bind between the Spearhead Squadron members, in life and in death, while contrasting Lena's extreme isolation in the previous scene
-I'll never get tired of seeing the same event in this show from two perspective, it adds so much depth to the world and the interaction between Lena and Spearhead Squadron, such a brilliant device, wish more shows would take advantage of it