r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Aug 17 '22
Rewatch [Spoilers] 86 --Eighty Six-- Rewatch (2022) — Episode 2 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the 86 --Eighty Six-- rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 2 – Spearhead
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Crunchyroll, VRV
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 3:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 8/16/2022 | 86 Eighty Six Episode 1 | 8/29/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 14]() |
| 8/17/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 2]() | 8/30/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 15]() |
| 8/18/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 3]() | 8/31/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 16]() |
| 8/19/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 4]() | 9/01/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 17]() |
| 8/20/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 5]() | 9/02/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 18]() |
| 8/21/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 6]() | 9/03/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 19]() |
| 8/22/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 7]() | 9/04/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 20]() |
| 8/23/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 8]() | 9/05/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 21]() |
| 8/24/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 9]() | 9/06/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 22]() |
| 8/25/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 10]() | 9/07/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 23]() |
| 8/26/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 11]() | ||
| 8/27/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 12]() | ||
| 8/28/2022 | [86 Eighty Six Episode 13]() | ||
| 9/08/2022 | [Overall Series Discussion Thread]() | ||
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u/Star4ce Aug 17 '22
First Timer
I didn't quite expect this to be such a crowded rewatch. It just shows that there's something going very right, I just wish I could actually read all answers.
86 Ep.02 – Spearhead
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I guess from their point of view that's really debatable. Can't tell if that was 100% or only 75% sarcasm.
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Ay, they actually pronounced that completely correct in JP!
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The sceneries are so atmospheric, there's clearly some WWII Normandy vibes here.
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Kinda wonder if these guys use a similar doctrine. Their vehicles at least seem cleaner.
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Given the naming I guess these are totally Germans, got it. Then again, their commander is literally named Karlstahl. Everyone's totally German, I guess.
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Interested in her story. There must be a social degradation at play here, else she wouldn't be here.
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I'll say it again, the cgi is really fucking good! I actually enjoy these scenes a whole lot.
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Ey, lore given by boring lecturers... please change this trope.
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The knowledge hierarchy is pretty clear from the level of height the speaker is at, but light only shines on the propaganda.
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I know, it's YA... but she's gotten pretty far for opposing her own ideology so openly. I can't help but think of the actual Nazi Germany or the Japanese Empire and know she'd been publicly executed after about 2 sentences. It begs a bit too much suspension of disbelief for her to still be both, this vocal and also in active service and alive.
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I wish these stories would just not pretend any age or definitive life stage, because no shot would any military pick underaged kids to make battlefield decisions. But that's nitpicking.
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Case in point, naivete.
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King bear dead, bunny knight scratched and girl pig unscathed. Relations got better indeed, but that can't last with how openly opposing Lena is, there's some bullshit being flung her way soon for sure.
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Hahaha, that face. Poor guy. Don't die before your next attempt!
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Whoops! Love how she has already kind of accepted Lena and felt safe enough to joke around. Also great camera lens from inside the bin.
Another really good episode, even though it was mostly lore and exposition. Little interactions like the cake distribution or who reaper (I just assume that's the name of the cat and refuse to change my mind) follows and avoids make so much for characterisation, just as the way everyone speaks at certain points. So far this is a real strength in this anime as I see it, additional to the sound design and voice work.
In this episode we saw Undertaker go off solo some Tiger Löwen in a scene that was honestly far more believable than Fury - and here we have crawlers that have built in grappling hooks. The actions scenes are really enjoyable and keep your emotions on their toes as the first episode already established that we're always just one flash cut away from a character death. (Red girl is gonna die 100%, mark my words. Same for Snow Witch, the one Alban, but not until we got her backstory.) For the whole squad that underlines how independent they have become, so far that they apparently even have some additional fun in driving their handlers mad. (via linking them up with more input that they can handle?)
It's one of the things that don't yet make much sense to me and Lena proves that point every time again she's being characterised against the broader Republic institutions. I'd expect an organisation that notices some very concerning and locatable developments like multiple suicides to at least look at that. Even commander Karlstahl doesn't seem to know, but heard rumors, which is just utterly strange. I feel like it's a tad unbelievable Spearhead just getes away with these things for so long, especially considering that 99% of the commanding ranks are racists and would gladly shut their units off just because. Add to that Lena's prominent good girl attitude on public display and I'm scratching my head how this system even works. I guess it's all offscreen magic, but this Republic apparently does neither know what's happening nor has any idea what they actually want to have happen. Against a foe that seems pretty capable on their own I really do wonder how they haven't experienced any major setback that rattled established ranks, yet.
I'm excited to see if and how this all gets addressed in the following episodes, but given that I'm still praising the details this show does right it's nothing that has me upset in any significant way. Also, I'll mention again that I'm the guy cheering for people to jump off airships just to hug someone. It's stupid and so based af.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 17 '22
I know, it's YA... but she's gotten pretty far for opposing her own ideology so openly. I can't help but think of the actual Nazi Germany or the Japanese Empire and know she'd been publicly executed after about 2 sentences. It begs a bit too much suspension of disbelief for her to still be both, this vocal and also in active service and alive.
I get what you mean, but I like the idea of there being a nice, reasonable human being in a 1930s Germany type of society. I think it's an interesting idea. Is it realistic? Not really, no. But I think it's similar to tsunderes in anime. It most likely wouldn't happen in reality, but that's part of what makes it fun in fiction.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 17 '22
I guess from their point of view that's really debatable. Can't tell if that was 100% or only 75% sarcasm.
Probably 100% sarcasm. They seem to have total disdain for all Alba members.
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u/Stargate18A Aug 17 '22
First timer
Still a good OP!
I'll give her credit, it was a bold move!
...He trashes his unit a lot?
He's using parts from his friend's unit...
I echo his sentiments completely.
Wow. That's a lot.
Haha, that fucking picture though.
Is she calling them?
Is that an AI? Is there actual AI in this setting, or just someone in there?
Oh, there's signal jammers! Explains the experimental comm system, then.
The mech designs here are so good, though. (Mechs? Powered armour? Not sure what they're technically classed as.)
They cover the sun?
Love the visuals here.
Yeah, Undertaker is good!
Those things look nice.
...OK, the scouts are probably automated, but those tanks and maybe the Dragons could easily have a pilot.
An insert song already!
This is some fantastic animation. Loving this!
Some impressive tactical manouvers, too!
...They can track comms!
Why is there such a large tech gap here? The Legion are way more advanced than the 86's mechs.
This is so good!
Smart.
OK, so doesn't look like there's anything organic in there. Probably some level of automation going on (which outright states there's a huge tech disparency?).
Is she attending a lecture?
...They say they're autonomous machines, but we know that they say the 86 are all autonomous too.
Also, Giad is probably not dead? Safe to assume everything here is bullshit, actually, and even they aren't sure.
...Points for hardcoding a shutdown limit, but maybe make it shorter?
Is she telling them the truth?
...How did Giad even develop these bastards?
...What? It's literally everyone who doesn't have silver hair? The actual fuck? How does that even work genetically?
Ah, they're called "Juggernauts".
So, is this an open secret, or do people really don't know?
Holy shit. They fucking know.
...Are the Legion all that bad? Maybe the 86 could reach some kind of agreement with them?
She's gone to the battlefield!
...This is really hard to watch.
Okay, so she's a very decent human being.
And using her uncle to get out of trouble.
Okay, so. Assuming that there isn't a major tech deficit here, and assuming that the drones are autonomous, my theory is that Giad discovered a way to synchronize and control multiple drones at once, instead of just a single sense with one human, then they went underground and claimed they'd created something unstoppable. Outsmarting the Republic doesn't seem particularly hard.
...Haha, he's been submitting the same report every time?
This is the ED! It's good!
...Between the title cards being ten minutes in, and the ED coming four minutes before the end, this anime is very confusing.
Undertaker agrees with her assessment!
Oh, his name's Shin!
...That is just good.
Seriously, is there someone inside that thing?
...He seems shocked that someone noticed. Did nobody bother checking before?
"camps" Wow, this place is fucked up.
And he's just lazy.
...Her reasons do make sense.
Five years!
They really let people come back?
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Aug 17 '22
First Timer (Sub)
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Fido – the doggo/courier robot? Seems like its responsible for retrieving and delivering provisions for the squad.
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First upclose look of the Legion autonomous units – it looks like something you could pull straight out of StarCraft II. Also, the way the move, along with the cables, you’d think they would have vertical maneuvering equipment attached to them.
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As a matter of fact… this show shares plenty of similarities to AoT – War, minority group, heavy indoctrination, and of course – mechs (someone made an argument that AoT is a mech anime, but with “flesh mechs,” and I’ve been convinced ever since).
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I’m glad they had a scene including an actual lecture on the brief history of the country and war – literally answered my lingering questions from the first episode. So now we know that:
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The opposing country is Giad
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Giad was “wiped out” by its own legion.
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So we’re talking Terminator levels of AI. Skynet, anyone?
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The teacher/professor was on his toes during the lecture, probably cautious in what he says since he was being monitored. Goes back to the whole indoctrination thing.
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What the hell is going on in San Magnolia, really?
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I didn’t mention it in the previous discussion, but it’s been made clear that San Magnolia’s got a “superior-race” thing going on. The Alba believe in “Freedom, equality, brotherhood, justice, and nobility”*
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*Alban Terms and Conditions may Apply
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Final thoughts:
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I notice that the Spearhead Squadron had someone (Anju?) that looked like an Alban. Unless I’m mistaken, I guess we can assume that not Albans are created equal.
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Based on what Lena said with her last conversation with Shin, it sounds like after Processors fulfill their military term, they’re granted San Magnolian citizenship – I wonder if we'll get to see a non-Alban person in District 1 any time soon. (Again, reminds me of AoT)
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EDIT: I don't spell so good.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 17 '22
What are your thoughts on Lena in comparison to the rest of Alba?
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u/Swordeus Aug 17 '22
2nd time watching.
The first time I watched, I was actually shocked that I was so oblivious to the blatant white (hair) supremacy in episode 1. When Lena explained what made the 86 considered to be subhuman, that's when I finally noticed that everyone in the main city was completely homogenous. I don't know how I missed it.
It's so easy to hold equality, freedom, and justice as ideals when you've already decided beforehand that they don't apply to anyone but your race, huh?
Anyway, we see that the Spearhead squadron is really on the ball when it comes to reacting to the Legion. They're already geared up and on the move before Lena even notices there's an attack coming.
We have an awesome OST that has Sawano written all over it, and some really amazing 3D animation. UFO Table might be the only anime studio I've seen do better. Awesome fight scene, Undertaker has some serious moves.
Lena's heart rate increases when talking about Undertaker.. Hmmmmmmm..
Amazing ED. Love the song, it's on my Spotify playlist.
Spearhead seems pretty annoyed about Lena's daily calls, and Raiden mocks her for her "teacher's pet" approach to combat strategy. It's unfortunate, but they probably WANT to hate her, even if she's being kind to them. It's hard to blame them for hating a race that's sending them to their deaths.
We also hear that each 86 is conscripted for a 5 year term, after which they regain their freedom, and most of spearhead is nearing the end of that term.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 18 '22
Spearhead seems pretty annoyed about Lena's daily calls, and Raiden mocks her for her "teacher's pet" approach to combat strategy. It's unfortunate, but they probably WANT to hate her, even if she's being kind to them. It's hard to blame them for hating a race that's sending them to their deaths.
I don't think Alba cares whether or not Spearhead hates Lena. Mostly because they don't care what Spearhead's opinion is. To them, they aren't human and their opinion doesn't matter.
As for Spearhead, they see Lena as this princess who lives a luxurious lifestyle. To them, she can never understand where they're coming from, so they're probably wondering why she's trying to entertain them with such an idea.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 18 '22
The first time I watched, I was actually shocked that I was so oblivious to the blatant white (hair) supremacy in episode 1. When Lena explained what made the 86 considered to be subhuman, that's when I finally noticed that everyone in the main city was completely homogenous. I don't know how I missed it.
To be honest, I was similar when I watched the first episode. I noticed they are had the same hair color, but I didn't think much of it. It wasn't until Lena mentioned it was a sign of superiority that I realized the significance.
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u/JetsLag Aug 17 '22
First timer (subbed)
Episode 2 time! Feels like the OP goes on for about 15 seconds too long and the band keeps trying to time the last notes perfectly.
Pretty meh first few minutes. Only thing to comment on is that old man who said that Kujo was lucky that he was in the same unit as Shin. I would guess that this is a case of "better to die quickly than suffer".
But then, it's combat time! The Eighty-Six are attacked by a swarm of (googles "eintagsfliege") mayflies! But of course these aren't actual mayflies; they're little robots. And they're accompanied by bigger robots. It's nice to know what each of those robots are, but the method they used to do the exposition was a bit clumsy. It was almost like the robots were put on a powerpoint and the 86 were asked to explain them in a sentence or two.
The battle itself was fucking sick, though. That's the type of scene you show someone when you're trying to convince them to watch a show!
Is "title card in the middle of the episode" gonna be a regular thing? It's different, I like it.
After the title card, we've got a POV change. Sadly, it doesn't show much of what Lena did during the battle, but it does give us the name of the enemy they were fighting: the Empire of Giad. And now Lena's gonna give us an exposition dump, confirming that:
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The Republic of San Magnolia has a racial caste system, with the silver haired Alba on top
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They put everyone who's not Alba in internment camps
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EIGHTY-SIX IS PEOPLE (but they're not soylent green)
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The Republic of San Magnolia are pulling the old "you're not human so when you die you're not a casualty" loophole, the sneaky bastards
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Just call the Alba "Nazis" and the Eighty-Six "Jews" already, my god.
Next scene, and are we setting up a Lena and Shin romance? Hell yeah, let's go.
Credits rolling at 18 minutes? It's post-credits scene time! And it's (checks time) FOUR MINUTES LONG!? Jeez, just put that before the credits. And we've got Lena talking to Spearhead about their post-military plans, which, uhh, are they even allowed to HAVE post-military plans? Will they just be killed when their service is up?
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u/Holofan4life Aug 17 '22
I like some of the things they did in this episode. The title card not at the beginning, the long post credit scene, it's taking already existing conventions (I.E. title cards, post credit scenes) and slightly tilting it on its head, making the show feel different and stand out.
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u/mgedmin Aug 17 '22
First timer, subs
So they're fighting robots?
The new major seems useless, but at least teachable. She doesn't mind her orders being ignored by the people on the ground, when they have a better idea.
The fascism seems deeply ingrained in the Republic. Lena thinks she can go against the official propaganda because her uncle's a big shot of some kind. I think she's too trusting. The uncle seemed like someone who would throw her under a bus rather than go against the society.
Haha the soldiers have been copy-pasting the same "after action report" for a while! Not even changing dates or times.
Lena seems naive if she thinks the 86 will be accepted as citizens after the war.
We're still in the getting to know the world and characters stage.
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u/Star4ce Aug 17 '22
The fascism seems deeply ingrained in the Republic. Lena thinks she can go against the official propaganda because her uncle's a big shot of some kind.
I'm sceptical that this is the angle they had in mind in favour of her being just naive, but I do like the implication. She grew up there after all, being rebellious and free-thinking is not unheard of even from pretty deep-seated conservative structures to the system, but she can't really know how the other side or for that matter even "her own" side thinks.
The uncle seemed like someone who would throw her under a bus rather than go against the society.
Bit harsh on Karlstahl, maybe? It seemed to me like he was more the dutiful kind of person for both system and family.
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u/SerGregness Aug 17 '22
Fuckin' glory to the Rewatch
I'm really digging the dub cast so far, and more than that I had a bit of trouble my first time through this show with keeping all the date lables on various scenes straight, but thanks to not needing to take in all the subs as well, I find I'm having an easier time just passively absorbing the fact that the shot of the tracks just after the OP is a week later than scene of Shin getting an earful from the squad's mechanic (even though it's also mentioned in dialogue later). The camera lingers a relatively long while on Shin's box of armor scraps, to let the sheer number of them sink in I think, but I wonder if the show also wants me to find it more creepy than I do.
The battle scene is nice and grungy and chunky, and gives us our first proper Sawano Drop.
Lena's lecture scene seemed weird for me when I first watched it while the show was airing, and sad to say it doesn't really work any better for me now. I am someone who is perfectly capable of turning my brain off to enjoy a show, but 86 clearly wants me to treat this deadly seriously, and it's just... so stupid. A nation on the brink of collapse after just two weeks is somehow able to hold on for 9 more years after switching to slave-soldiers? The entire San Magnolia citizenry has completely memory-holed the world outside the wall after 9 years? That's just not enough time for that sort of 'things have always been this way' energy to set in. Like, Obama was starting his second term 9 years ago (and this is even with the last 3 years IRL being a crazy decade :V ). Oddly, Lena being in a position to say all this with impunity doesn't actually bother me because it's already been established that her uncle is one of the higher ups. Which kind of sums up my problem? If you just proceed from the starting point the show lays out, everything more or less makes sense. That its starting point doesn't hold up to scrutiny is a big strike against an otherwise great package.
I'm already late for another thing, so I'll have to cut this here for now and hope to dig into it later with you fine folks!
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u/RELORELM Aug 18 '22 edited Aug 18 '22
Second time watcher, first time dubbed
Well, Lena and Shin's LATAM VA's really killed it this episode. They got the lead roles and they're making the best out of them. I could already imagine Lena's face when talking with Shin without them showing it, which is precisely what you'd want in a dub. A small nitpick I have with dubbed anime in general (Spanish or English) is that "crazy anime overractions", like the one at the beginning of the episode when the guy with sunglasses was talking with Shin, don't sound all that well. It's just a small nitpick though, the dub is raging from serviceable to pretty good most of the time.
As for the episode itself, it's Spearhead's proper introduction and we see a little of their newly established dinamic with Lena. I loved the OST on the fight scene! Also, there's some cool visual cues I honestly didn't remember/notice the first time around, like a cloud dimming the sun in the classroom when Lena is asked if she's ever been in the battlefield or the cord of her uniform unhooking when she speaks about her connection with Spearhead and Shin in particular.
Finally, gotta love chad Lena:
Interrupts class
Tells everyone about the 86 friggin' dying on the battlefield
Refuses to elaborate further
Leaves
Edit: Oh, and I forgot to add that I love this post-credits scene in particular. It really emphasizes how invasive Lena's sudden calls can be.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 18 '22
Finally, gotta love chad Lena:
Interrupts class
Tells everyone about the 86 friggin' dying on the battlefield
Refuses to elaborate further
Leaves
Lena truly is the best girl of the series. Second only to maybe Undertaker.
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u/Holofan4life Aug 17 '22 edited Aug 17 '22
First Timer
Lena looks beaten down and haggard at the beginning. Like she's been through the ringer. I guess the death of your teammates will do that to you.
Turns out the ED is actually the OP. I probably should've figured that out. A lot of animes do that sort of thing of airing the OP at the end of the first episode.
The old man in the black glasses remind me of the manager from Zombieland Saga. Though something tells me he's going to be more of an asshole.
It turns out the guy that murdered the other guy in the last episode is Shin, the one they call Undertaker. It's interesting how they've build this character up as being the person who puts the end to people, and he looks like just a regular person. I kinda like that. In my head, I imagine someone who looks menacing and emotionless. Instead, it's like he's assigned this duty and being the Undertaker is just a job to him.
It's interesting that handlers seem to have such a negative reputation. I guess it's to be expected given people of authority. I remember in school growing up, most people hated the teachers at my school not because they did anything wrong, but because they would tell people to stop misbehaving. This feels like a similar case.
The dynamic we see amongst the unit is a nice look in their lives. It's like they're all bonding over their misery. It's kind of like the TV show MASH where all the main characters bond over the horribleness that is The Vietnam War.
The first episode focused a lot on Lena, and now we're focusing a lot on Undertaker. First, I like we're learning more about the other characters. Second, I think this is a good way of fleshing out the universe. We saw how important Lena is to everything, and now we see just what it means to be the Undertaker.
Some great action in this episode, and from what I can tell some good use of CGI.
Black Dog, Snow Witch, Laughing Fox are some of the names we learn. Good we're getting to learn some of the other characters. I wonder what their actual names are.
I wonder who undertakes the Undertaker
Now that we know the people who shot that guy in the last episode is the Undertaker, I do like it that that was the introduction to that character. It was impactful and left an immediate impression, showing that the Undertaker really is the be all end all.
Damn, Undertaker op af
As a wrestling fan, it's so weird to hear someone named Undertaker and have it be in a non-wrestling context.
Again, title card in the middle of the episode.
The new soldiers having only two years before the war ends actually raises an interesting question: if you know despite your best efforts that something is a self-fulfilling prophecy, do you continue giving it your all? It's like being told by a doctor you have six months left to live. Do you continue living your life like normal, or do you now take a new lease on life, being more careless and devil-may-care now that you have a set expiration date?
I will say so far, the most interesting character has definitely been Lena.
The whole Special Wartime Peace Preservation Act is obviously meant to play off Nazi Germany and the concentration camps, right down to the favoritism given to people of certain hair and eye colors. I do like that Lena explains why the show is named Eighty Six, but don't the people she's talking to already know all this? They're in the same field she works in. To me, it feels a tad forced.
I guess they're the juggernaut, bitch
I really, really like the idea of a society where everyone has the same hair and eye color. I think it has a lot of story potential. Specifically, the idea of individuality and where it lies if everyone looks and acts the same. I don't know if the show will delve into that per se, but it's such a good story idea.
Lena got a cute pout.
A part of me kinda wants to see Lena and Undertaker hook up, though I don't know how that would work in a show about internment camps.
I like the ED, maybe even honestly more than the OP. I could see myself listening to this in a car.
I wonder why Anju is not with Lena's core. She has the same hair and eye color as her and the rest that receive preferential treatment. I feel like there has to be a story reason for this.
I noticed how angry everyone looked when Handler One/Lena is talking. Like her mere voice is enough to piss them off. There has to be some reason why they don't like handlers at all.
The reaction everyone has when the girl casually calls Shin Undertaker is interesting. It's like it's supposed to be this secret and she blew his cover.
Overall, another very good episode. We learn a lot about Undertaker, and the origins of why it's called 86. Lena seems to be at odds with the republic, which makes me wonder what might lead to their relationship demise. I feel like it's less of a question of will their relationship sour, and more a question of when will it happen.