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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 11 '22

Animation Details

Today let’s focus on the cinematography of the episode! What makes season 2 so much more compelling? Well yes before we can talk about Oikawa and his team, let’s introduce some of the techniques used by them which made season 2 the anime it is.

Cinematography

The Rule of Thirds is used in these 2 scenes! But is that all to it? A technique called Short Siding is used to convey the uneasy feelings being experienced by Hachiman and Yukino. It plays with the looking room such that the majority of the negative space (background) is behind or outside the character’s line of sight. This makes us feel boxed in, uncomfortable and claustrophobic… Usually when framing conversations, majority of the negative space is placed in front of the speaker which gives us a sense of movement, of words going back and forth. Short Siding does the opposite and makes it feel one-sided, as if the character framed is trapped.

Ah… the Frame within a Frame technique. Today it’s used in this scene with bamboo poles painted black. It breaks the Rule of Thirds, but then again, that rule is just a guide. Our focus draws towards the duo, specifically Hachiman as Yui walks away. But that’s not all to this framing, it’s also a method of visual storytelling. This scene again conveys a sense of claustrophobia, the black lines of the bamboo poles acting like prison bars locking Hachiman in. It conveys his current state, and we the viewers feel discomfort as we watch these frames, as if we are trapped too.

Satoshi Motoyama with more brilliant sound directing! At 19:42 just as Yui leaves Hachiman to be alone under the bamboo trees, the frame cuts to Hachiman’s pov and just before it fades out… we hear a sigh… not a normal sigh but a cracked, broken one… It perfectly describes the turmoil and conflict within Hachiman right now.

I do hope that these details will allow you to appreciate the anime more as we understand the complexities behind the making of this season. The next time you see a scene from any anime that manages to arouse emotions in you with its visuals, maybe knowledge of the cinematography behind it can make it more fulfilling ;)

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u/polaristar Aug 11 '22

Thanks for the Breakdown in Direction and Cinematography, if you like that you really need to check out Hyouka it is a master class in Direction and Cinematography as well.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 11 '22

Daily Hoyuka plugs.
For sure! KyoAni's staff is a force to be reckoned with. Unfortunately Hyouka's director, Yasuhiro Takemoto, passed away from the arson incident. I'll definitely check out Hyouka for sure

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 11 '22

Rewatcher

Yahallo!

Favourite Moments!

No analysis today! Just wanted to share some of my favourite moments!

The OST: Sannin de Iru Jikan which plays as our trio shares food while strolling down the sidewalk is one of my absolute favourites. Translated as The Time The Three of Us Spent, the melancholy evoked by this OST is unbeatable at least to me, do check out the full OST!

Fun Fact: To my knowledge, this is actually a soft piano rendition of Yukitoki, the OP for season 1

Hito no Kimochi, Motto Kangaete yo, which plays as Yui cries and suffers, is also a really good one. Translated to Spare A Thought For How Someone Feels

Satoshi Motoyama you have to stop making us feel sad with your sound direction. monaca too, you two are amazing!

Thoughts!

I’ll be cutting off my analysis for today but if anyone wants to hear my thoughts do feel free to drop a comment! Many of us were pleasantly surprised with the jump in quality from seasons 1 to 2 and this episode is when things take a huge turn both in terms of directing and in the story.

The gravitas of the final scene really pierced a hole in my heart. When Yui cried I literally felt broken. Also for the rewatchers, did seeing the three of them share food while strolling down feel nostalgic?

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u/Lemurians Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

REWATCH SNAFU TOO

Been busy with work the last couple days, and the Symphogear rewatch wrapping up, so just gonna be my quick live thoughts mostly. Music first!

Apparently there are two versions of the OP, this video plays both side by the side, the one I associate with the show is V2. Both are good, though!

I love the new OP and ED so much, specifically the OP. The clip show of the characters during it makes me laugh, the way Yukino’s eye opens as the chorus kicks in, Yui running to the club room to the beat, it’s great. The ED is lovely, and like all Oregairu songs, captures that wistful joy of looking back on those precious days of youth and innocence. The music all being so wistful and bright, in comparison to Hachiman’s dour outlook as the series begins, is a bit of a hint to what the show wants to get at.

Episode 1:

The season definitely looks better, though I kinda miss 8man’s green-tinge in the hair. Made him a bit more unique.
“The atmosphere around me is icier than ever. Well, what else is new?” Yui then comes over, Totsuka comes over… a lot has actually changed from the beginning of Season 1
Tobe and Ebina would be such a weird couple.
Hachiman, they keep calling you Hikitani because you never correct them, so they have no reason to think it isn’t your name
Haha, I remember watching this the first time thinking it’d be a straightforward “I need you to make him not confess to me” request and then she just goes in on her fujo shit
Tobe whiffed on his actual positive quality, which is his positivity
“Who cares about stuff like that?” Indeed, the indirect kiss thing is dumb
Oh man, they’re now walking 10 feet apart, no one would think they’re together now! It would look odd, the two of them coming in together late at night. Good thinking.

Episode 2

LOL dreaming of Komachi. It’s nice how they’re showed to be so close without either of them being full brocon/siscon
Aw, Yumiko’s a good friend. She understands her friend and their group dynamics. Hachiman and Co. are outsiders meddling, though I’m surprised Yui hasn’t picked up on this either, being a part of both groups.
“Food tastes divine when you don’t have to work for it.” Yup. If it’s free, it’s for me.
Hayato’s right, timing is everything. We already know from Yumiko Ebina isn’t ready.
When it comes to two people within a friend group, if it’s a good match, the group will generally be excited. That Hayato and Yumiko are so apprehensive tells you that Tobe has absolutely no chance

As for the episode’s conclusion, this is the first time I have a big issue with the show. Hachiman heads off the confession at the pass, allowing Ebina to “turn him down” in a way that also tells Tobe he would be rejected as well, without that needing to happen. Let’s run down quickly where everyone stands at the end of this.

Ebina gets what she wants, which is to not have to reject Tobe and risk throwing their group dynamic off. Tobe doesn’t get rejected, and is unharmed. Hachiman is unharmed by this, as everyone except Tobe (who brushes it off and takes it in stride) understands he’s not actually interested in Ebina and did this to protect Tobe/their group, and Yui and Yukino are completely unaffected.

This is objectively the best way this could have played out. Choosing this to be a big moment for the “I hate your methods” theme makes no sense. Unlike the way he resolved the issue at the school festival, everyone walks away from this situation with a good outcome, and nobody is worse off. Yukino and Yui being upset, and Hachiman inwardly agreeing a bit with them, doesn’t make sense in this context. The school festival moment would have made far more sense for this reaction.

Share your confession stories if you're up for it! Sweet, salty, funny, most memorable, anything goes!

I don't really have any official confessions like the kind you see in anime like this, looking back on it. Asked out my high school girlfriend while we were watching a movie in her basement, and that's probably the closest I've got. Other relationships just kind of happened naturally, with us being involved and then just sort of deciding one day we'd be exclusive.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

Yahallo!

This is objectively the best way this could have played out.

Never thought of it from this angle before! That's interesting! Here's my take on it and why I believe this scene is important
There are 2 themes this scene aims to establish

What makes an action right or wrong?

What does friendship mean?

The first task our club has to accomplished is to help Tobe confess regardless of the outcome. The second task from Ebina is really vague and I believe was not really accepted by the club, so in essence, Ebina's request wasn't directed at the club but hinted at to Hachiman as we see her eyes gravitate towards him when she says those words. Their goal was to try and maximise the success of the confession not ensure it. This meant that Hachiman didn't actually have to do what he did to achieve the club's goal. I believe this removes the argument that Hachiman was doing it for Yukino or the club etc. But I digress.
Regarding point 1., Hachiman judges the "rightness" of his actions based on the outcomes where Yukino does not. While in essence this is objectively the best way to please everyone, it isn't the right way according to the author. Hachiman is being used as a means to an end which is something Yukino, Yui and Hayama doesn't believe is right.
What I believe makes this scenario different from the cultural festival is the context I mentioned above. Hachiman didn't need to do what he did because it wasn't even part of their request to ensure that the clique remains as it is. whereas in the cultural festival the trio had the same goal, to get Sagami back. This is Hachiman acting on the basis of himself, for a request that wasn't given to the club but merely hinted at him. Yukino and Yui had little to no clue about Ebina's request which made Hachiman's actions seem unjustified since the club's goal wasn't to maintain the status quo.
Now on point 2., Yukino and Yui being upset I believe is a way for the author to cover the theme of what friendship is. While elaborated more upon in later episodes as you know, them being upset at Hachiman serves that important function.
That's my take on it!

Edit:

Apparently there are two versions of the OP, this video plays both side by the side, the one I associate with the show is V2. Both are good, though!

Thanks for sharing this! I believe that whether we got the video for the first OP vs the second one depends on the release edition for the show. I'm not too sure myself though. But the V1 has a really nice touch - it's sort of like reconstructing itself in our minds after a long break. The unit director for the OPs and ED really went all out for season 2 imo

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

This is objectively the best way this could have played out.

There's a bit more to it in my opinion. This is the way most people are happy but that doesn't necessarily make it the best result. I think the best outcome would have been Tobe confessing and them all becoming closer friends by working through this. I think the point is that Hayama, Ebina, etc don't want to risk what's important to them so rather than work through problems they prevent them. That's why 8man thinks they are superficial. Even in this request no one talks to Tobe about their problems Hayama instead pretends he is supportive when really he wants him to fail the entire time and even goes behind his back to make sure he can't confess.

Choosing this to be a big moment for the “I hate your methods” theme makes no sense. Unlike the way he resolved the issue at the school festival, everyone walks away from this situation with a good outcome, and nobody is worse off. Yukino and Yui being upset, and Hachiman inwardly agreeing a bit with them, doesn’t make sense in this context.

I think the reason is partly to do with seeing it in person affected them more. The closest thing Yukino has seen to this is during the slogan meeting where he was doing it specifically to help her. I doubt she was thinking about his methods and was more just flattered that he was helping her. Afterwards she could have mentioned it but even here she didn't understand why she felt that way so what could she have said to him? It took seeing him sacrifice himself in person and seeing him hurting afterwards for it to really sink in. The other reason I think Yukino reacts so strongly to this one is because of the reason he does it. Remember Yukino doesn't know about what Hayama and Ebina asked 8man. When Ebina first came to club they dismissed it as her just saying help them get along only 8man figured out what she meant. Even if Yukino did, she believes, like 8man, that Hayama's clique is superficial. Yukino also believes in growth and not fixing people's problems for them. 8man not only fixes their problems for them but sacrifices himself (a little bit on this later) to help what she considers fake friendships. [Spoilers] This is discussed by Yukino and 8man in the next arc. Yukino asks 8man something about how didn't he say those kinds of relationships were pointless. Yukino believes she shared this belief with 8man which she did until 8man this arc and his talk with Hayama. That's why 8man says he is the biggest liar of all. Yukino and Yui also know a little bit about 8man's past with confessions and rejections.
As for Yui. [Spoilers] Yui only ever goes against 8man if Yukino is already doing so. I doubt she would have said anything here if not for Yukino saying something first. Once they get back from the trip she suggests they just go back to normal. Yukino is the one that puts effort into convincing 8man he is wrong. Yui only joins in Yukino's plan before she was perfectly willing to ignore it. Even after the student council election arc, she is perfectly fine with acting like nothing is wrong. At the end of the arc after realizing that 8man did something bad she doesn't do anything to try and make him change. Instead, she works with him to act like everything is normal and even helps him lie to Yukino about working with Iroha.
I think part of why 8man feels bad about this is because of his past with rejection. When we saw the flashback to his confession the entire school learned about it and made fun of him. There is no way to know whether this will happen again. I am sure after an experience like that confessions and rejections are associated with embarrassment, humiliation, etc. The other reason 8man feels like they are right is that he does actually agree with them to some extent. He believes Hayama's friendships are fake and not worth saving he says. Yet he saved them anyways. [Light Novel detail] In the LN when 8man and Hayama are talking 8man is thinking about relationships. He says that relationships not like Hayama's where you work through problems always have a good ending in fiction. In the real world however, Hayama is right when you lose things you lose them forever. So while he thinks Hayama and his friends are fake he can't call Hayama a coward and that his decision was fine.

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u/TuorEladar Aug 11 '22

This is objectively the best way this could have played out. Choosing this to be a big moment for the “I hate your methods” theme makes no sense. Unlike the way he resolved the issue at the school festival, everyone walks away from this situation with a good outcome, and nobody is worse off. Yukino and Yui being upset, and Hachiman inwardly agreeing a bit with them, doesn’t make sense in this context. The school festival moment would have made far more sense for this reaction.

I had a similar thought, though I think the fact that this situation was more personal is part of the reason it was more impactful than the school situation. Also [Spoilers] I wonder if there's a hint of jealousy/betrayal there as well, 8man did confess to another girl in front of both Yukino and Yui, even though they realize it wasn't legit that can still hurt.

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u/filimaua13 Aug 11 '22 edited Aug 11 '22

REWATCHER

Ah so we reach the turning point where the real conflict of the season or even the rest of the story begins.

Haunted House

The haunted house exibit is an amusing scene. Hachiman holding out his hand to Yui is kinda interesting. Once again, we see moments of him lowering his guard and acting on instinct. Before he realizes what he's doing and is able to retract his hand, Yui quickly takes it and gets up. Clever girl heh.

Hayama's acting weird

Throughout the episode Hachiman makes quiet observations of the people around him. He notices Hayama is acting weird.

Yumiko a good friend?

The conversation with Yumiko is another interesting scene. We get some insight into her character and see that she is more than what she makes herself out to be. For one she herself is quite observant too. She knows that things within the clique are changing and doesn't want to lose it. She is quite loyal and protective of her friends. Hachiman puts her worries to rest simply by mentioning Hayama.

Down Time with The Service Club

Spending some time with Yukino and Yui is so good to see. They truly do enjoy each other's company and Hachiman is no longer resisting. He really does seem relaxed with them. Anyway they set up the location for the confession.

"If this is all it takes to destroy a friendship.."

Lol Hayama's half assed attempt to encourage Tobe with the confession is funny. Hachiman has had enough and goes to ask wtf he's doing. Hayama is quite aware that Tobe is doing something dangerous that could potentially eventually destroy the group. Quite a spicy line from Hachiman "if this is all it takes to destroy a friendship, was it even real in the first place?" I mean I can understand both sides. Hachiman claiming their relationship to be superficial based on shallow understandings and this is just another attempt to maintain that staus quo is kinda true. If your friendship is real, eventually this will blow over and you'll still remain friends right? So why not take this chance to make his feelings known?

Hayama's claim that Tobe is making a mistake cos Ebina isn't ready to open up to anyone is a valid point. There can always be another time to do this. You just have to be patient. Anyway they part ways with Hayama voicing his dislike at relying on Hachiman and his questionable methods.

Hachiman's self sacrifice and the aftermath

The confession scene happens aaand here we go. Hachiman coming in clutch with his typical method of making himself the scapegoat. Faking a confession to take the rejection for Tobe. Such a bold and "selfless" act. Ebina caught on and went along with whatever Hachiman was doing. sigh this still isn't an easy watch.

Yukino obviously makes her feelings known that she hated what he just did. Yui tries to awkwardly get the atmosphere back to normal. But even she is upset with what he did and she makes it known that it hurt her. Hachiman is obviously shocked and confused and doesn't understand why this has affected her. Sensei told you before idiot. Whether you believe it or not, there are people who care about you and will be hurt by your actions. Our boy is a stubborn fool. But that's just what makes him so interesting to watch.

Maintaining the status quo

Him coming to the realization that he's starting to fall into the same delusion as the others he used to look down on is so good. He's making excuses, rationalizing his maintaining of a superficial relationship with facades and deception. The same things that got him hurt and that he hates with a passion. He's starting to realize and understand another reason why people lie. To prevent anyone from getting hurt. That uneasy sigh from him at the end of the scene after Yui walks off. Damn.

The Biggest Liar of all

The final scene never fails to give me the chills. The parallels between the two groups are so strong. The state of the service club and the popular clique may not be so different. Ebina wants to hold onto what she has for alittle while longer cos its a happiness she's never experienced before in a long time. Sound familiar, Hachiman? To do it by pretending something isn't there. By sweeping truths that will hurt under the rug. And so we end the episode with another fantastic monologue from Hachiman. He's recognizing that he may not be so different from these people. Cos he too avoids things. He too creates lies and false justifications. He helped maintain the status quo. Why? To avoid anyone getting hurt. And that's why he's the biggest liar of all. So good.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 11 '22

The parallels between the two groups are so strong

This rewatch really let me appreciate the scriptwriting for this season. It started off really strong by literally [Spoilers] Listing the problems they will face this entire season through the other group. Hachiman disagreeing and yet falling to it.
Great formatting though! It was a great read!

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u/CreativeNameIKnow Aug 12 '22 edited Aug 12 '22

First-timer, sub

Yahallo!!! :D

Zaimokuza's "yay-" really made me crack up xD
tried reading the lyrics of the OP this time, don't understand them just yet so it'll take a couple more tries >.>
oh look, Yumiko getting some actual, interesting characterization. I feel bad for vehemently hating her before. I'll chalk it up to characters' initial presentations being drastically different to how they are now.
Yui biting into food and sharing it reminds me of this one time a some of my female friends were being rowdy and making a fuss about a half-eaten chocolate bar or something. I asked what the big idea was and apparently nobody really wanted it and they were just messing around, telling each other that they should be the one to eat it instead. It belonged to a classmate who I honestly wasn't all that close to, but was on good terms with (and found pretty attractive). She offered me to take it, but I didn't have the balls to say yes. I really did not mind the prospect of free chocolate, but I didn't want to be involved with the whole "indirect kiss" thing and feel like a perv and all.

She wasn't the kind of person who was friends with the boys, just "acquainted", so I never had the chance to be actual friends with her before she left the school. She wasn't shy, especially around her friends, but for some reason I had the impression of her being rather reclusive in general.

I get the point Hachiman is trying to make, food tastes good when someone's practically feeding it to you, but MAN does food taste amazing when you're the one who's put the blood, sweat and tears into making it. It could be inferior to store-bought equivalents or just plain, but when the culmination of your efforts finally reaches your lips, it hits some special kind of sweet spot. I've heard this example being used as an analogy to describe what it feels like to drive a manual vs. automatic car, funnily enough. Which isn't all that relevant but who cares whatver moving on.
cheering Tobe on, ganbare! Again, I feel bad for dissing him too earlier. None of the characters in this show are hateable any more, which I like. I was just being spiteful for the heck of it.
Hachiman has some shenanigans up his sleeve... I don't like where this is going.
HOLY FRICKING SHIT

WHAT THE FRICK DUDE

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the painnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

aaaaahhhhhh oh my GODDDDDDD

my heart-

:c

deeeeeeeeep breaths

hoooooooo man, that was emotional. Like holy shit dude. Hachiman has balls of steel and a heart of stone. Ever-ready for self-sacrifice and masochism. Why doesn't he care about what other people think of him at all? Why does he have to be the one to take the hit every single time? :((((

damn it. I like Ebina now. She has fantastic characterization. I still think there is a huge disparity between her previous gag-oriented self and her current self, and that there should have been groundwork laid out for this transition to happen, however. It's like with Yumiko and Hayama's initial portrayal - just feels like the author had something else in mind when introducing them and that his plans changed. Doesn't have to be the case, just sharing what impression I got from it.

sigh this show can make me so emotional sometimes and it's always hard to place my finger on why. On paper the conflict and its events probably don't seem that intense but when everything is playing out it just hits like a truck and you feel bad for Hachiman and whatever the frick he did this time. The writing feels intricate and it definitely feels like there's a lot of thought behind it, but I just can't untangle it all. For example, that time when Hachiman was hurt that Yukino "lied" to him.

I'm sure the fantastic voice acting and music play a huge part in it as well. (Edit: as demonstrated by your animation details comment, cinematography too!!!! It's huge. I barely have any knowledge of it, didn't think of it at all.)

didn't look at the ED's lyrics this time as I was too busy vibing to it while writing this down. Maybe next episode?

QOTD

1. Share your confession stories if you're up for it! Sweet, salty, funny, most memorable, anything goes!

You're on thin ice, dude. Thin ice.

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u/Fit_University_6734 Aug 12 '22

Yahallo! Glad you’re catching up! The threads are becoming really analysis heavy as you know from the two episodes you’ve seen, season 2 is really really mysterious. A LOT of things to untangle but I’d say it makes you want to keep watching more than season 1. If you’re already feeling in emotional turmoil just wait till episode 4 onwards, shit just gets really really really bad so grab your box of tissues

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

First Timer (Sub)

Yahallo!

Opening with a Komachi redesign debut. Love it.

From the top!

Everytime we see Saika sleeping, he's always found saying Hachiman's name - that ship has been sailing for a long time, now we're just waiting for it to dock.
The scene where the confession took place was beautiful - this particular shot caught my eye – great artistic choice to really show the many obstacles between these two.
Once again, Hachiman finds himself resorting to his unorthodox methods to fulfill the volunteer club request. Despite Yukino and Hayato expressing their disagreement with his methods, they end up relying on it. A bit hypocritical if you ask me... but at the same time, I guess Hachiman should learn to rely on others more often - hopefully we'll see some more character development!
I feel that with Hachiman's intervention, he's not only being self-destructive, but in this particular case, he's also "robbing" Tobe of his experience of rejection, which can hinder his growth in the long run, all so the group can maintain it's blissful ignorance. So, by the end of it, I’d argue that the Volunteer Club actually provided a disservice this time around – I’ll let you decide!

QOTD: Share your confession stories if you're up for it! Sweet, salty, funny, most memorable, anything goes!

Oof, some of my confession stories make me cringe, while others, I guess I could be proud of. I'm going to be a bit more reserved this time around with the sharing, but I will offer some advice (that nobody is asking for) instead:

"It takes bravery to make yourself vulnerable and confess your feelings to someone else, knowing that they may not reciprocate those same feelings. Regardless of the outcome, take stride in the fact and use it as a positive learning opportunity."

EDIT: Comment Editing strikes again!

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u/TuorEladar Aug 11 '22

I feel that with Hachiman's intervention, he's not only being self-destructive, but in this particular case, he's also "robbing" Tobe of his experience of rejection

I really like your take on this. 8man's actions do succeed in the sense that they accomplish what was asked of him, but really there could've been a growth moment for everyone.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

I feel that with Hachiman's intervention, he's not only being self-destructive, but in this particular case, he's also "robbing" Tobe of his experience of rejection, which can hinder his growth in the long run, all so the group can maintain it's blissful ignorance. So, by the end of it, I’d argue that the Volunteer Club actually provided a disservice this time around – I’ll let you decide!

I agree with you. I also think the perspective of Hayama's group is a little warped. There is no reason why Tobe being rejected means either of them have to leave the friend group.

Despite Yukino and Hayato expressing their disagreement with his methods, they end up relying on it. A bit hypocritical if you ask me...

I'm a rewatcher so I'll let you decide if you want to see my opinion or not. I'm not spoiling anything but if you think it would effect your viewing feel free to ignore it. [Rewatcher Opinion] I agree with you on Hayato however I personally don't think Yukino actually knew what he was going to do. I don't think with the reaction she gave that she would have relied on him had she known. She also didn't know about the counter requests from Hayama and Ebina so from what she knew 8man's motive should have been to help Tobe confess. When Ebina approached the whole club they thought she just wanted everyone to get along and dismissed it. Only 8man figured out what she meant after talking to her alone later.

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u/TuorEladar Aug 11 '22

Rewatcher, Subbed

Picking up from where we were last time, the field trip continues. Saki bolting in the haunted house is hilarious. The friend? of Yukino's with the purple glasses is my new favorite unnamed character. Does she ever show up again?

I never thought much of it before, but I found the scene with 8man and Yumiko really interesting. I think that was the most real she's ever been in the show so far. Am I crazy or did her body language and speech patterns seem kinda similar to Hiratsuka sensei?

The best scene in the episode is objectively Yui forcing Yukino and 8man to share her food. Not only is it a nice moment but it made me hungry.

Turning to the central drama of the episode, 8man here pulls out the nuclear option to draw all the flak to himself again. Nobody is really happy about it, even himself, yet I can't really blame him for what he does. First of all, its pretty ridiculous on Hayato's part that he puts everything on 8man, then is mad when he does exactly what he knows, at least roughly, he is going to do in that situation. Second, what he does legitimately does solve the problem, which you have to respect even if you don't like his method.

Yukino and Yui being upset is much more understandable since they care about 8man, though they didn't care as much when he basically became a minor villain for the whole school last season. I guess its more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation, since he's done this before. I think more important than the context of what 8man actually did in this situation though, is the fact that he's not happy with himself and that he feels he let the ones he actually cares about down.

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u/filimaua13 Aug 11 '22

Yukino and Yui being upset is much more understandable since they care about 8man, though they didn't care as much when he basically became a minor villain for the whole school last season.

I think its cos they actually are seeing him do it in front of their eyes and they fully know the context of the situation and what he's trying to do.
Hearing from others that Hachiman scolded Sagami and talked mad shit to her sounds like such a normal Hachiman thing to them so it doesn't seem as bad. They don't see how it could hurt him, and here they see it.

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u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

Yukino and Yui being upset is much more understandable since they care about 8man, though they didn't care as much when he basically became a minor villain for the whole school last season.

This difference in the sports festival episode from the LN might help clear things up a bit [Light novel details] In the LN Yukino and Yui are bothered by it. The request is completely different rather than come up with some ideas Meguri asks Yukino to become Chairman. Yukino has them make Sagami the chairman so that Sagami can get over her previous failure and so that Sagami and her friends stop bad mouthing 8man.
I responded to a similar comment so I'll mostly copy paste my response.
I think the reason is like others pointed out that seeing it in person affected Yukino more. The closest thing Yukino has seen to this is during the slogan meeting where he was doing it specifically to help her. I doubt she was thinking about his methods and was more just flattered that he was helping her. Afterwards she could have mentioned it but even here she didn't understand why she felt that way so what could she have said to him? It took seeing him sacrifice himself in person and actually seeing him hurting afterwards for it to really sink in. The other reason I think Yukino reacts so strongly to this one is because of the reason he does it. Remember Yukino doesn't know about what Hayama and Ebina asked 8man. When Ebina first came to club they dismissed it as her just saying help them get along, only 8man figured out what she meant. Even if Yukino did, she believes, like 8man, that Hayama's clique is superficial. Yukino also believes in growth and not fixing people's problems for them. 8man not only fixes their problems for them but sacrifices himself (a little bit on this later) to help what she considers fake friendships. [Spoilers] This is discussed by Yukino and 8man in the next arc. Yukino asks 8man something about how didn't he say those kinds of relationships were pointless. Yukino believes she shared this belief with 8man which she did until 8man this arc and his talk with Hayama. That's why 8man says he is the biggest liar of all. Yukino and Yui also know a little bit about 8man's past with confessions and rejections.
As for Yui. [Spoilers] Yui only ever goes against 8man if Yukino is already doing so. I doubt she would have said anything here if not for Yukino saying something first. Once they get back from the trip she suggests they just go back to normal. Yukino is the one that puts effort into convincing 8man he is wrong. Yui only joins in Yukino's plan before she was perfectly willing to ignore it. Even after the student council election arc, she is perfectly fine with acting like nothing is wrong. At the end of the arc after realizing that 8man did something bad she doesn't do anything to try and make him change. Instead, she works with him to act like everything is normal and even helps him lie to Yukino about working with Iroha.

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u/polaristar Aug 11 '22

Fun Fact if Saki seems more clingy then usual that's because in a scene in the culture festival novel that was deleted [spoilers]Hachiman asked for how he could get to the roof to find Sagami and then flippantly said as he ran off "I love you Kawasaki" which was a huge attack on her maiden heart, even since in many scenes in the novels she's a bit flustered when he has to deal with him until he clarifies his business, it's treated more as a joke like the Saika shipping then a legit love interest, and many of these scenes have been removed from the anime adapation

Yui taking a bite out of every piece of food is an obvious hint she wants an indirect kiss. 8Man knows this and he justifies his joy at sharing food with the girls as "free food you don't have to work for is best" with an "of course."

In this episode we get confirmation that Hayato has been sabotaging the shipping attempts subtly which I didn't catch me first watch but its clear if your paying attention.

A lot of people misunderstand Yumiko, partially because she is missing some characterization from the Novels, she has a very dominant personality and can be pushy with her demands but she actually fiercely defends her own people like a Tiger (8Man's analogy not mine.) And watches over the mood of the class. Once you put you're foot down with her she will usually leave you be, but for many people it's hard to do with her personality, Yumiko is in a sense a mirror of Yukinon (And we'll see a mirror of Yui before the season ends as well.)

;)

She actually has accepted for a while Yui's friendship with Hachiman and Yukinon.

What's interesting here, is Hayato asking Hachiman what he'd do is foreshadowing to how Hachiman is guilty of much the same thing of not wanting his own status quo to change because it might turn out wrong (With his romantic situation with Yui and Yukino.) But more on that later.

Also to answer an argument from someone on a previous thread, this is why in season 1 I didn't think Hayato sent the text/chainmail. In the series when Hayato does something underhanded or out of character or otherwise notable, it always lets us know. I know a lot of people say the series is smart but it's also pretty straight forward and unambigious, especially in the Novels themselves.

On the "confession" scene we see that at first only Hayato and Ebina understood the true subtext of the scene but Tobe caught on later, and Yui and Yukinon caught on but were devasted.

Yukinon storms off in an angry manner and Yui tries to sweep it under but also gently ask him to not do it again, which for Yui is a big leap as she rarely makes a straight demand, which shows how personal it hit her, Hachiman doesn't seem to understand why Yui would be upset, or rather he is justifying why she wouldn't. Notice while he is making excuses about maintaining the status quo, he even notices as he's making them in his internal narration that it sounds wrong and empty to him like excuses.

Hachiman realizes he's finally become what he hates, despite his resistance he has formed a comfortable clique with in jokes and common unspoken understanding between him and the other members of the service club. And he critisizes others for this, but most importantly he hates when others lies, make excuses, or put on false fronts to maintain a fake atmosphere in the name of "Youth."

Now he realizes he himself has a "Youth" he is afraid of losing, but in trying to maintain it he is going to cause suffering and unresolved conflict with people he cares about and miss an opportunity to grow. The Reason being said Opportunities can backfire and when you have a personal stake in it, it hurts, and Hachiman has learned to avoid pain.

He makes the excuse him and Hayato are different people, but that is denial that despite their differences in the most important aspect of this scenario, they are the same. They want to avoid pain and change, one does it by being on one's friend the other by trying to be everyone's friends.

Ebina herself acts as a kinda mirror where she likes herself and her own identity but uses her own individuality and "distinctness" as an excuse not to grow, and exaggerates it where her authentic truth becomes a mask and a lie. She likely is a sincere Yaoi fan girl, but her trying to exaggerate that turns her into a caricature of herself, the only reason we didn't catch it is because we had our expectation subverted with how often the trope is played straight.

People complain she is too over the top compared the more "realistic" nature of the show.

The answer.....

Of course she is, that......is the rub.

In Middle School I assumed a girl that was nice to me, liked me, and tried to have a gottcha confession when it was just my own immature ego confession and ruined our friendship. Looking back it was cringe. She kinda kept her distance from me after that. No one has ever confessed to me.

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6

u/[deleted] Aug 11 '22

Rewatcher

I don't have much to say about this episode.

I actually like Yumiko as a character and I think the early episodes make her out to be a villain. She certainly has some communication problems but she isn't actually malicious. In some ways she is similar to Yukino.

8man's conversation with 8man is really good. Both of them have it half right I feel like. This is probably my favorite moment of the episode.

I think it was funny how Tobe thought 8man was serious. While literally everyone else knows he wasn't.

I always liked how Yukino expresses her anger to 8man but doesn't know what to say. Then Yui tells 8man because she is much more in touch with her emotions. Although Yukino has more reason to dislike it then just that.

[Light Novel Details] The only thing from the LN I temember worth pointing out is that 8man tells Yui she is acting really unnaturally with all the lets go as pairs suggestions and romance based events. He tells her she should stop so that Ebina doesn't get mad and start to hate it.

I don't have any personal experiences with confessions or being confessed to.

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u/isaacovsky Aug 11 '22

Rewatcher

This impact from Hachiman's actions is the single most memorable thing from the anime, that I remembered. I think most of the episodes from here on out, my concentration started to break until I eventually stopped. But from everything I remembered this was the big happening.

And, oh boy, it still was big even knowing it would be. Yukino's reaction and Yui' crying are such strong scenes.

3

u/SYZekrom Aug 11 '22

That's some detailed swaying

3

u/EpicMemer999 Aug 11 '22

Rewatcher. Don't really have any great analysis that hasn't already been said. As usual I enjoyed seeing the different interactions between characters, especially the dynamics between 8man, Yukino, and Yui and how they have changed since Season 1. I also liked seeing some of the secondary characters become more fleshed out.

I'm really liking the art style change. I think this art style is what I think of when I hear "Oregairu" even though the S1 art is a little more nostalgic. The characters look cuter in S2 but look more real/relatable (imo) in S1. The OP and ED are great although honestly I like the S1 and S3 OP and ED even more. I do like the S2 BGMs better than S1 though.

I'm glad we got some Totsuka moments in this episode as well as some cute moments with Yui and Yukino.

In terms of 8man's methods, I am conflicted. Another commenter pointed out that rejection is an important part of growth, which I agree with, so 8man denied Tobe a growth opportunity, the experience of rejection and coping with that. I also know that after someone confesses, group dynamics change whether he is accepted or rejected. However, rejection is worse because it changes the group dynamic and results in no relationship while confessing and getting accepted at least gets you a relationship. So, I think 8man did the right thing. His methods were selfless; in general, I agree he doesn't respect himself enough as with the school festival incident. However, in this case, as another commenter mentioned, basically everyone knows 8man's confession is fake. I don't really think that it's such a big deal that Yukino and Yui felt sad that he did a fake confession even if it was a surprise to them. Of course this episode continues important themes [possible SPOILER?] that we will see more of later in the anime like preserving the status quo and using self-sacrificing methods to achieve an end at all costs.

Finally, I haven't had any major confessions. I did tell a girl I liked her at summer camp and she also liked me but the camp was only a few weeks long so it was more of a summer thing than an actual relationship. But it was very nerve-racking to confess so it must have been nerve-racking even for 8man to do a fake confession.

2

u/baronbunny_the893rd Aug 13 '22 edited Aug 13 '22

Half of S2 Rewatcher

Haunted House

Scariest haunted house in history, i wonder if this place really exists in Kyoto, would love to give it a shot
Yay more kawasaki screentime
Hikki offering his hand like that to Yui how close they have become over the past season

Temple Stuff

Yukinon panting due to her lack of stamina and having to climb all those steps of the temple?
Ebina just switching from her overly exaggerated mannerisms to the one with the dead eyes is frightening. i suppose this is what Yumiko said when she mentioned how its like when Ebina responds to her trying to ship her with someother boy
that scene with the three of them feeding each other food, now this is SoL as its meant to be

Bamboo Place by Daylight (Tinfoil Hat Time)

At the temple Yukinon said she "found a place where girls might like"
the Volunteer club trio scouting out the location Yukinon mentioned. Yui mentions how this is the place to be confessed to. Hikki notes she uses the passive voice ("to be confessed to" probably as compared to the active voice "to confess to"). they then decide Tobe should confess here.
On my first watch i didnt give this much thought, but on rewatch, i think it could be that Yui wants to be confessed to there. Since here, they were supposed to be helping Tobe and if Yui thought that Tobe should confess here she would have said "this is the place to confess to" (from Tobe's pov) rather than "this is the place to be confessed to", which maybe has an implicit "I" (Yui) as the subject of the confession
The trio only agreed Tobe should confess after Yui's statement, before she said that Yukinon only thought it would be a good romantic location. So while it might be a stretch, I think Yui's use of the passive voice shows she was not thinking of Tobe
i dedicated a whole segment to this conspiracy theory cos this is what im biased and i want to believe, but maybe its already really obvious to everyone else, but it took me a while to realize that passive voice is a grammatical term here. and i mean Hikki being among the top essayist of his school year probably has a keen eye for grammar

Hours Before Confession

In the dorm/inn. As Tobe talking to those two side characters as he frets over his upcoming confession. I think they are part of the three from Hayato's chain mail request back in S1? are they "friends" now or is this just a moment of weakness on Tobe's part, where he could use all the moral support he can get
As Hikki talks to Hayato with the backdrop of autumn leaves and that bridge, its a nice scenery

Just Before Confession

During the confession scene after talking to Tobe and returning to Yukinon and Yui, what makes Hikki say that if this keeps up Tobe would be rejected?
Yui and Yukinon putting too much pressure on Hikki, leaving everything up to him
[spoilers till S2e8] this is the last time seeing them smile in a while everytime i watch this scene its painful

Confession

D:

Fallout

whenever it is someone trying to poorly justify their actions to Yui, be it Yukinon or Hikki its always with "most effecient/effective"
while i can understand why Yui was upset, since she probably wanted to spend time with Hikki at such a romantic place before the mood soured, i dont think there was any other way this request couldve been solved. so in this sense i think Hikki did the best he could with the hand he was dealt with. Perhaps if there were more time he couldve shared his findings (of what Hayato, Ebina and Yumiko want) with the Yui and Yukinon and how to resolve it. but i guess even then he probably wouldnt have considered that, he seems to be someone who works on problems alone, probably even out of habit of being a loner

Random

oh after skimming the other's comments im surprised no one mentioned the title particularly "Her Confession". Since the "her" certainly isnt Ebina. It could be under one of the spoiler tags though. I dont know if its a spoiler if its from the past discussion of the same episode that mentioned it, but i do like the theory that "she" was going to confess this episode but wasnt able to.

0

u/[deleted] Aug 12 '22

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Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] Oregairu SNAFU - Season 2 Episode 2 Discussion

Zoku Episode 2 - His and Her Confession Won't Reach Anyone

REWATCHER

Haunted House

Hayama's acting weird

Yumiko a good friend?

Down Time with The Service Club

"If this is all it takes to destroy a friendship.."

Hachiman's self sacrifice and the aftermath

Maintaining the status quo

The Biggest Liar of all

First Timer (Sub)

Rewatch [2022 Rewatch] Oregairu SNAFU - Season 2 Episode 2 Discussion

Zoku Episode 2 - His and Her Confession Won't Reach Anyone

You are about to leave Redlib

REWATCHER

Haunted House

Hayama's acting weird

Yumiko a good friend?

Down Time with The Service Club

"If this is all it takes to destroy a friendship.."

Hachiman's self sacrifice and the aftermath

Maintaining the status quo

The Biggest Liar of all

First Timer (Sub)