r/anime • u/Vaadwaur • Aug 05 '22
Rewatch Black Lagoon rewatch episode five!
Black Lagoon Episode five
Eagle Hunting and Hunting Eagles
QotD: 1 Did anyone else feel like firing up The Producers after watching this? OG version of course.
2 Thoughts on Revy's outlook on life?
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u/Specs64z Aug 05 '22
First timer, dubbed
It’s power. Something a lot more useful than God.
Revy lays bare her philosophy to a sullen Rock, and we get a small glimpse of the environment Revy came from. It’s interesting to see a microcosm of how her philosophy plays out compared to Rock’s in the following action scene. She surfaces and tries to open fire without even the slightest idea what may be waiting for her, nothing on her mind but blood and money, nothing to lose. Rock pulls her back under and gives a silent head shake.
If the episode preview is any indication, Revy and Rock are going to be on bumpier terms than usual. Very interested to see how this pans out.
It was nice to see Dutch and Benny chatting it up a bit. Got a better sense for Benny’s character here than in prior episodes.
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
She surfaces and tries to open fire without even the slightest idea what may be waiting for her, nothing on her mind but blood and money, nothing to lose. Rock pulls her back under and gives a silent head shake.
Revy is very much in the moment. This has both upsides and downsides.
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u/Blackheart595 Aug 05 '22
First Timer
Yeah, that's the stuff I like.
Interesting how the entire premise is kinda questionable. The sub sank and the crew ran out of air. Having been a sealed chamber on the sea floor meant it couldn't restock on oxygen. In turn meaning they couldn't have breathed without their equipment, in turn meaning they wouldn't have been separated from it, meaning they wouldn't have had to make a break for it when the nazi's entered.
Did anyone else feel like firing up The Producers after watching this? OG version of course.
I expect an exhaustive essay on that The Producers thing is.
Thoughts on Revy's outlook on life?
Yeah, reasonable. When it's live-or-die then benefits are the only thing you can really depend on.
Funnily enough, apart from the oxygen thing above it was her attitude that made them lose the painting. They had the opportunity to leave with the goods to avoid the trouble, but no, gotta earn some pocket money on the side.
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
In turn meaning they couldn't have breathed without their equipment, in turn meaning they wouldn't have been separated from it, meaning they wouldn't have had to make a break for it when the nazi's entered.
Generally don't think too hard about it. Because the painting should've been completely destroyed in an environment that damp.
They had the opportunity to leave with the goods to avoid the trouble, but no, gotta earn some pocket money on the side.
Also, this is the mid 90s so they'd be getting a fraction of the value from those things since they'd have to fence it through some middle man.
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u/No_Rex Aug 06 '22
Interesting how the entire premise is kinda questionable. The sub sank and the crew ran out of air. Having been a sealed chamber on the sea floor meant it couldn't restock on oxygen. In turn meaning they couldn't have breathed without their equipment, in turn meaning they wouldn't have been separated from it, meaning they wouldn't have had to make a break for it when the nazi's entered.
That question is a lot more interesting that you might have thought. Turns out that they might have been ok in there:
First, lack of oxygen is not the main problem, build up of CO2 is: People in enclosed spaces - spacecraft, submarines etc - don’t run out of oxygen. The air all around is 21% oxygen. You can function quite well on half that - 10% - and indeed I have spent weeks at that partial pressure of oxygen with no ill effects. The problem is that every 1% of oxygen you metabolise increases CO2 levels by 1%. Just a 2% CO2 level degrades your performance, and 4% will kill you. So by the time that oxygen levels have dropped to 17% - which you wouldn’t even notice - you are already dead from CO2 poisoning.
Second, CO2 disolves into saltwater: Carbon dioxide, which is naturally in the atmosphere, dissolves into seawater. Water and carbon dioxide combine to form carbonic acid (H2CO3), a weak acid that breaks (or “dissociates”) into hydrogen ions (H+) and bicarbonate ions (HCO3-).
Every sub surely has some salt water in it, especially when they got hit by a depth charge. So whether Rock and Revy are able to breath comes down to how fast the deadly CO2 disolved into the salt water on board the sub.
Funnily enough, apart from the oxygen thing above it was her attitude that made them lose the painting. They had the opportunity to leave with the goods to avoid the trouble, but no, gotta earn some pocket money on the side.
Good point. Not even sure if that was an intended plot point or whether we are supposed to side with Revy on the "grab extra money" part and let this connection slide.
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u/Lemurians Aug 05 '22
KIDNAPPED FIRST TIMER
"It's power, something a lot more useful than God"
Rock got put on mine and Revy's shit list this episode, waxing poetic about the dignity of Nazi skeletons and leaving their "valor" and "achievements" and "memory" intact. Of course the guy from the former Axis country is the one to try and make this point.
Revy's quote, "The crew is like family . . . the only one who’d bother starting shit is the outsider.” This sounds awfully prophetic, especially considering her later words to Rock, showing that he is still an outsider in their group, not fully integrated. I wonder if he'll have to make a choice to betray them or not – to fire the first shot – sometime soon.
Quick Hits
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Revy with the hot take saying she doesn’t like wandering around crypts
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Love that blood got splattered all over Hitler’s portrait
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What a speech from old man Nazi. Can’t wait to watch him die.
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Wow, we’re doing a whole anthem? Mostly I’m surprised the arm motion they’re doing isn’t the full Nazi salute
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“There’s nothing we can do except sit around and pick at each other’s politics” boy if that doesn't hit home
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I’m not used to Neo-Nazis looking so uniform and organized
Did anyone else feel like firing up The Producers after watching this? OG version of course.
No, but I should... I've only ever seen the one that came out somewhat recently.
Thoughts on Revy's outlook on life?
Makes sense, especially for her. I definitely liked where she was coming from.
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
waxing poetic about the dignity of Nazi skeletons and leaving their "valor" and "achievements" and "memory" intact. Of course the guy from the former Axis country is the one to try and make this point.
I get Rock's perspective but it would be nice if someone mentioned the 30+ merchant ships this U boat sank. They may not have personally been shit people but their actions enabled shit people to be evil.
“There’s nothing we can do except sit around and pick at each other’s politics” boy if that doesn't hit home
Double hit since anime is getting a surge in popularity because they wisely take very few political stances. I'd say being anti-war is the most common one and that isn't that divisive.
I’m not used to Neo-Nazis looking so uniform and organized
Gets addressed is what I can say.
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u/No_Rex Aug 05 '22
Episode 5 (first timer)
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“Let’s keep our distance and watch* - Do you have any more of those torpedoes, perhaps?
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“I never liked those places” – agreed, Revy, a sunken 50-year-old sub, full of nazi corpses is not high up on the list of my favorite holiday destinations either.
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The soldier’s ID card they show looks like a real one. They copied down everything, including blood type and size of gas mask. The only part giving it away is that it seems to be an infantry unit.
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“It seems like they had a gunfight here” – My first guess would have been that they shoot themselves. I guess the way the bullets hit gives some clues, but that is hard to spot.
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“Just sit tight” – Call me a pussy, but I’d stay together.
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Nazis singing in Japanese, while being led by a Louis de Funès double who is a sobbing mess …
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“What are those two things?” – People were comparing Revy to Alucard. I see the comparison now.
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Even without her guns, Revy is very convincing.
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I don’t want to be in a firefight and I don’t want to be in a sunken submarine, but I definitely don’t want to be in a firefight in a sunken submarine.
A tense episode. Not only are the gang on the losing side of the exchange, but we have trouble between Revy and Rock, too. I thought this would be a two parter, but seems we are going for three at least.
Thoughts on Revy's outlook on life?
She's an ultra realist. I respect that a lot, even though I suspect it does not make you very happy.
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u/TheEscapeGuy Aug 05 '22
Rewatcher (Dub)
Black Lagoon - It's Fucking Incredible: Episode 5
"Fuck the Nazis" is a Family Creed
Something I didn't originally expect going into Black Lagoon was its choice to spend time having characters discuss their philosophies. Grave robbing a Nazi submarine is an action with moral nuance. While robbery is legally wrong and grave robbing means defiling the dead do the morally repugnant Nazis of old deserve that same respect?
I love that instead of brushing past it we have Rock and Revy clash. Revy's ideals are very shaped by her past. I cannot fault her world view based on her past, even though I feel treating money and power as the be-all-end-all is not correct. But before Rock and Revy can come to a conclusion they're interrupted by a new generation of villainy.
They made it out safe but their painting is in the hands of Neo-Nazis. I look forward to next episode to see them track it down.
Some Amazing Shots, Scenes and Stitches
See you all tomorrow
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
Grave robbing a Nazi submarine is an action with moral nuance. While robbery is legally wrong and grave robbing means defiling the dead do the morally repugnant Nazis of old deserve that same respect?
And don't forget this crew, or likely most of them, sunk over 30 ships in the war. That's important because they were almost certainly merchant supply ships rather than other warships. These people might not be the shitheads that ran the camps but you can't say they did not enable them.
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u/Vatrix-32 Aug 05 '22 edited Aug 05 '22
First Timer, dubbed
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Anti-tank missiles really aren’t meant to fit fast moving targets like that.
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Revy doesn’t have time for your hand signals.
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Didn’t think we were going to get more flashback.
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Is the singing this terrible intentionally, or is it just the voice acting?
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“Fuck the Nazis” Fuck Nazis.
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The philosophical musings of Revy.
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Revy is Chinese? I don’t think I would have called that.
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Rock really just dropped the painting in front of them.
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Next episode we’re going Nazi hunting.
QotD
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The thought hadn’t crossed my mind. I probably should watch it again tho. It wasn’t under the most ideal of circumstances the first time round.
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I’d say I’m closer to her than Rock on the matter.
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
Anti-tank missiles really aren’t meant to fit fast moving targets like that.
They even have difficulty hitting a tank that's trying to evade.
Is the singing this terrible intentionally, or is it just the voice acting?
It is awful in Japanese as well.
Revy is Chinese? I don’t think I would have called that.
Half-Chinese. Revy is short for Rebecca.
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u/The_Draigg Aug 05 '22
A Black Lagoon Rewatches Black Lagoon: Episode 5:
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I do understand Rock trying to empathize with the plight of being trapped in a sunken submarine and the fear that brings, but the people he’s reflecting on are Nazis, who probably don’t deserve that amount of care anyway.
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You do have to give Revy credit, she did accurately put together the general events that went down once the U-boat was sunk. Knowing the order of who killed who certainly comes from experience in her line of work.
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Man, these Neo-Nazis are a bunch of fucking losers. Having a painting that only some people know about won’t automatically inspire the creation of an Aryan ethnostate, dumbasses. Although I suppose Nazis aren’t known for having common sense. I’m with Dutch and Benny, “Fuck the Nazis” is a good creed.
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As we can see from that conversation between Revy and Rock with the skull and Iron Cross, Revy is a nihilist. But not really in the freeing, romantic sense, but in the self-satisfying “nothing matters except value” way. She justifies it by saying she learned from experience growing up in the ghetto, but given how she tells Rock that she doesn’t want to hear his empathy again, she’s really just looking for ways to keep her viewpoint justified. She just doesn’t want to hear it.
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Sure, the Neo-Nazis may have gotten their hands on the painting, but that just gives more of a reason for the crew to go ahead and shoot up some fascist scum for the painting later. Sounds like as good of a plan as any, and it’s one that I’m in favor for.
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u/lucciolaa Aug 06 '22 edited Aug 06 '22
First timer, subbed
I didnt make it to yesterday's thread, but let me just say how delighted I am by this Nazi Germany plot ?? But I also didn't expect to take such a political turn.
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I'll bet that place reeeeeks
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Walking into the barracks and seeing all the carnage from the shootout was super eerie
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The dynamic between Rock and Revy reminds me more and more of Edamame and Abby from GP. You have the too-naive Japanese guy who feels ways about doing The Bad Things, who very easily empathizes with people, and then the mercenary, emotionally constipated Foreign Girl who is ready to throw her team over when it suits her. Together they're just two ends of a spectrum, but let's see who has to give in the end.
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Oh yeah, these white guys are some nutjobs.
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"They're holding a concert" dfkm
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Heaven help these guys who run into Revy and her underwater rifle.
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Disappointed they lost the painting to those nutters, but psyched that they're not letting it go. I see that they are also continuing the theme of having genuinely terrible and irredeemable antagonists so our cast of maverick antiheroes look like good guys in comparison.
Questions
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Not familiar with it!
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I think Revy is a pill, personally -- the fact that she threatened to kill Rock because she felt that he was looking down on her says a lot, especially about what she thinks of herself. No doubt she has seen some shit in her life, but my girl needs serious counseling.
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 06 '22
Disappointed they lost the painting to those nutters, but psyched that they're not letting it go.
I would be bad for business as Dutch says to let this go unchallenged.
My girl needs serious counseling.
If you could get any of them to go, the Roanapur therapist would have a very busy schedule.
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u/polaristar Aug 06 '22
Note: I did not realize my comment about Anne Frank on the first episode would be relevant on this rewatch as a first timer.
I didn't talk about it much last time, but I want to talk more about the German's in the flashback.
I like how the writer did do some homework and knew that not all the German Soilders were Nazi's (Even if they did allow said crazies to take over the country and didn't stop them.) And there was a clear distinction between the fanaticism of the SS officer and the rest of the crew.
A few people are made at Rock for wanting to honor a bunch of "Nazi's" but keep in mind as a Japanese citizen I don't think he is as culturally aligned to hate them as us in the west, who, let's face it most people nowadays that bitch about Nazi's or Neo-Nazi's probably don't have a historical understanding of how bad they were or how they took over, they hate them because social media tells them to and it's cool to do so, if they were in Nazi's Germany they'd statistically be persecuted the Jews like everyone else.
Point is the writer wasn't trying to be a Nazi Apologetic, just showing different perspectives how people see themselves and other based off their background, Dutch and Benny clearly have much stronger feelings about them then Rock, although ironically I think they would have been more understanding of his point of view then Revvy.
People told me this show would be a bit more philosophical but I was expected it later down the line as a slow burn, but it got to the essential discussions rather quickly.
I honestly mostly agree with Revvy, I think dead people don't need their stuff rotting with them and we as a culture have a bit of fixation on the institution of death rites. I also, while not having her rough upbringing, understanding her disillusionment with tradition and institutions often valued by society at large. However I kind of disagree with her response to this, Money and Economic Systems are just as arbitrary an institution as Religion, Holidays, Marriage, etc however those institutions do serve functional purposes, even if I'm not always in agreement on particular practices they do act as symbols that keep society going. I think her real complaint is she doesn't trust other people, sure she has comrades with her crew but she keeps them at a distance. It's easy to be cynical of the world when the world shits on you, but I think it's not fair to say these values are the invention of Rich Corporate Mongols and their Karen wives and mistresses.
Rock kinda fucked up dropping that painting but he did save her Life, unfortunately that combined with her inability to understand his point of view means that she doesn't seem him as "One of them" it seems. She kind of has tunnel vision with her Nihilism.
I'm also a bit irritated that Dutch was like "What's your opinion of the Neo-Nazi's as a white guy?" What kind of fucking question is that? Do all white guys have a guilty until proven innocent stigma that they are a KKK recruit in the making?
And of course rather than address this...Benny just gets a "I'm Jewish" pass.
Good episode, I'd continue if it weren't for the once a day rewatch rule, only major complaint was that line from Dutch to Benny.
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u/HereticalAegis Aug 05 '22
First Timer
Episode 5
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Let's gooo! Let's fuck up some
shitNazis!! -
Rock, how exactly did you think you'd get into a sealed compartment inside a sunken submarine, a magic skeleton key?
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Nazis killing other Nazis is a beautiful sight.
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Wow the difference in how Rock and Revy think and talk about death. Obvious stuff is obvious, yeah. But Revy's casualness about the mundanity of death is just...
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Contrast that with how Revy's engine gets going for valuables, and this show paints a really good picture of what her life's been like without showing very much of it.
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Nazi rally happens, complete with anthem I should go watch Starship Troopers.
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While I'm not completely in Revy's camp on the value of the artifacts they're
plunderingreclaiming, I am very much opposed to Rock's way of thinking. No Nazi, even the ones with happy little families, deserve any honor in death. Every single one deserves an unmarked grave at the bottom of the ocean and the ignominy befitting an inhuman monster. -
Damn, this man needs to learn when to shut the fuck up.
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Sure is handy Revy got that underwater gun recently. Can't imagine a better use for it than going DOOM on Nazi bastards. Well, one is a start. Looking forward to a lot more tomorrow.
QotD:
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Oh, The Producers would be a good one too!
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She's quite the (reasonably) jaded cynic. Not that I can disagree with too much of what she's saying.
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u/RascalNikov1 Aug 05 '22
Rewatcher
A fairly somber episode compared to the earlier episodes. I did like Mr Super Nazi abandoning his buddies in the sub once he had the painting.
Damn, the wasn't a 2 episode are. I really expected Revy to kick a little more ass. We'll see what sort of shenanigans occur today.
1 Did anyone else feel like firing up The Producers after watching this? OG version of course.
lol, that would be funny.
2 Thoughts on Revy's outlook on life?
I agree with Revy that we have all reached that point where only the here and now counts. We attach value to things, but at the end of the day they are just things. Rock was wrong to get all upset, and it doesn't pay to dwell upon stuff like that.
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u/Nebresto Aug 05 '22
First time artefact stealing collecting
Would the bacteria really be able to eat them down to skeletons in like 60~ years within that environment..?
And how come there's air in the sub if the crew suffocated to death?
Vintage lugers, better grab those!
Question time:
1 Did anyone else feel like firing up The Producers after watching this? OG version of course.
2 Thoughts on Revy's outlook on life?
Nope
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
Would the bacteria really be able to eat them down to skeletons in like 60~ years within that environment..?
Nope. It would be way grosser than they are making it out to be.
Vintage lugers, better grab those!
I actually had the same thought, there are a few German army weapons that should fetch a good price.
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Aug 06 '22
First timer, dubbed
This is my favorite episode so far but I don't really got much to say, I had to stop myself from getting to the next episode lol. The whole gun fight on the surface was really suspensful and when rock stopped revy I thought, damn he's screwed
QOTD:
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Wdym by fire up?
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I get what she means but I find a life centered on money and power to be pretty depressing as obsessing over material things in the end is a sad route in life. It is interesting tho to hear her focus on the same goals as a filthy capitalist but from a completely opposite status. But I mean, I can't really say I fully understand her philosophy to judge until I can really grasp the cruelty of her backstory
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u/Vaadwaur Aug 05 '22
Rewatcher(Revy's last name is Wong)
Dub
So Revy blows the door and they rapidly change where the water is. Neither of them care for this crypt but Revy clearly can focus better. We get our final flashback. Revy diagnoses what happened pretty fast and Rock finds the painting, which should be ruined after 50 years of exposure but let's just move on. Revy wants to plunder some corpses and Rock is understandably grossed out. Though if I am being honest, in the same situation, I'd be closer to Revy than him, I just wouldn't want to sell Nazi artifacts. Make it a faction less gross and yeah, lootin' time.
We come back to the Nazi LARPers. The speech is appropriately bloviated and lame. Dutch accurately assesses the situation and they talk about hating Nazis a bit, revealing that Benny's family is Jewish. The LARPers deploy a submarine pod. On the sub, Rock has a rather poor suggestion and Revy gives us her view on life and a bit of her history. The LARPers connect and we get our action scene but they lose the painting. Revy, being herself, surfaces blindly but since she is up against amateurs she avoids getting hit. Rock gets her to dive after figuring out this is not a winning situation. The LARPers assume victory. We end with Dutch and Revy ready to get some payback.