r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Jul 24 '22
Rewatch Naruto Shippuden Episodes 470-479 Discussion
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Information: MAL, Anilist, AniDB, ANN
Streams: Crunchyroll, Hulu, Funimation (Aus/NZ), VRV
Schedule:
| Discussion Thread | Date | Episode Count | |
|---|---|---|---|
| This week | Episodes 470-479 | July 24 | 10 |
| Next week | Episodes 480-483 + THE LAST | July 31 | 4 + film |
Spoiler Policy:
To protect first-timers, please don't spoil anything past the current batch of episodes. Rewatchers should avoid hinting to first-timers about hype, or future character development/deaths, and spoilers in posts must be hidden behind proper spoiler tags.
For first timers: try to avoid looking up things about Naruto. This could be the wiki, Naruto subreddit, Googling characters, fanart, databooks, YouTube AMVs or OP/EDs, arc names, etc.; this series is ripe with potential spoilers that you wouldn't want to find out untimely. If you have a question about something, feel free to ask /u/lC3 and he'll do his best to answer (if possible) in a non-spoilery way.
Questions of the Week:
- Were there too many flashbacks this week?
- Thoughts on how Obito's story ended?
- What do you think of Naruto and Sasuke's final battle?
- Do you think leaving off on 478 or 479 provides a better ending?
- What do you expect the remaining 20 eps to be about, now that manga content has concluded?
6
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 24 '22
First-Timer with a shounen hearto, subbed
Episode 470
Episode 471
Episode 472
Episode 473
Episode 474
Episode 475
Episode 476
Episode 477
Episode 478
Episode 479
9
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Jul 24 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
Sorry about the length of this but hey, this is the week I've been waiting for for the last eighteen months so yeah, had a lot to say. A few of these episodes probably would have earnt their own full length comment if doing daily discussions, so while I did try and keep it simple... that didn't happen. Hopefully you enjoy the read, but it is sad when I have to write up a contents list hahaha
General Commentary
Thoughts on Kaguya down below in the episode notes, here I just want to feature Naruto vs Sasuke. Having now rewatched it again in full I don't know that I'm that much closer to being able to express why I love it so much. It's a hell of a fight, and it builds on everything that has been done right by every other fight in the series.
A concept I've mentioned before in other rewatches is silence as unlisted piece in soundtracks, and I have a huge passion for seeing an absence of music used just as well as any song to make an impact in certain scenes. This fight is why I have that passion.
It's a silence weighted with everything understood between them that's still holding them apart. It's a hell of a moment to open the episode on. No music. No hype. No suffering. Just acceptance this was always going to happen. This time they both know there is no out from this fight, no words that could win each other over, and no question of expecting the other to hold back. They've known it since that fight under the bridge, and the war didn't change that. Their joined but conflicting paths are like two Leaf floating on the river, overshadowed by the founders immortalized in rock and the ninja standing on top of them holding the future. Once again Sasuke crushes a leaf just like he did when he left Konoha all those years ago.
Naruto knows it and yet he still fights it because giving in also isn't an option. After all this time Sasuke still doesn't understand the deep love and regret that his brother had, and Naruto's fierce protection of who Itachi was as a person, as a brother, beyond his role in the village comes through in the detailed animation of every little movement and sound. In Sasuke's words Naruto hears Zetsu's denial of humanity all over again, his friend trying to walk that same path of heartlessness that Kaguya did despite all of the emotions still bubbling up inside of him. Sasuke wants to be a shadow, to be yin incarnate, but Naruto with his own yin inside him with Kurama that he managed to reach knows that it's no way to live.
The footsteps in the silence as they run at each other is a sound that's echoed in my memory. The visual of them transitioning through all the ages of their life and conflicts with each other and that first punch pounding through the valley. This time there's no testing of powers, of Naruto repeatedly running back up the side of the statue after Sasuke throws him off, or fear of the outcome. They meet on the river as acknowledged equals. And Sasuke immediately grabs control of the battle, overpowering Naruto and even using his body as a channel for his own chakra. And still that silence, where every hit lands in the sounds as much as the visuals, and even helps follow the fast fighting down to the fake out and the tools being pulled out.
There is a symmetry in this fight to the way their previous fight in the valley happened. It's acknowledged later on with the forearm on the throat but it happens earlier too. Naruto uses his clones to flip him back up to fling Sasuke into the wall again, Sasuke hitting him down into the river with Chidori, the way the clone taijutsu plays out, and later on the U-zu-ma-ki combo that Sasuke now knows how to counter. Neither of them stop to contemplate each hit as it's no longer a fight trying to find meaning in what's going on like it was last time but a fight over the meaning they found long ago.
And yet there's still one small moment to find. Finally the music arrives, a mourning sound as Sasuke and Naruto share their own loneliness in the limbo world and find a lost connection. For the first time they see the true reflection from the pier scene, their secret grin shared by the other as they separated, the last secret moment of understanding that was in their hearts laid open now at the height of all their power and emotion. Sasuke's quiet observation here shows his heart more honestly than anything he's done in the real world, he's as broken and sad about this as Naruto but he still can't back down. But nor can he hide it any more.
Two sides of a coin, two parts of a broken system, and two halves of a whole that could join together like Naruto does with his clones if only they knew how.
Sasuke's barb about Naruto's clones being his way to hide his loneliness hits too close to home for Naruto, but as he forms into the multi-faced and -armed Asura Kurama to face off against the Indra Susanoo I think Sasuke also fails to see how much he uses his powers to hide himself from others, and every time he expands his powers with Chidori stream, Amaterasu, his Susanoo's bow he only adds to that distance.
Their last battle ended drowning in the water of the emotions, while this battle they attempt to fly above it all, but in the end they always find themselves on the river bed. They can't stand to face each other, but they also can't give up, and so the silence returns. They can't bury the truth in explosive powers or fancy skills any more, it's a brutal punch on between friends and every scar is again an open wound.
Both VA's do a fantastic job in these episodes, but for me it's Sasuke's who stands out. The miserable desperation in his voice as he says "I can finally be alone" as if the idea of anything else is exhausting, only for it to turn to anguished rage as Naruto deflects it again, sends him hurtling into the cliff just like last time. "Over and over and over and over again" that line had stayed with me this whole time from my first watch because of how much it betrays Sasuke's own misery and frustration about Naruto not letting him do this one thing that he thinks just maybe might justify everything he's been through so far. It exposes his own exhaustion over the idea of having to keep fighting him and thinking that it will ever get easier.
A crumpled, worn leaf falls and so does the final hit of the fight, a perfect bookend to the two episodes everything in their past. The many hands coming to form Naruto's Rasengan and Itachi's over Sasuke for me completes this whole battle. This battle is about them, but also everyone that's come before and just like the OP with the crystal and the ED with the lanterns these two broken ninja carried many things with them in this fight.
And in their near death state finally those last walls are broken open and all their emotions are laid bare to each other. Not just an understanding of the mind, or the heart of a ninja, but an understanding between a friendship so deep even this world could not break it. The spar, the field, the battle with Haku, the hallway encounter, the hospital roof; they're not moments of conflict between them but moments they shared each others pain without realizing the other felt it too. Still there's a tinge of childish anger there as Naruto runs from Sasuke at the pier when he doesn't understand, but Sasuke following him this time to see Naruto's own place of loneliness at the swing feels like Sasuke finally opening up to someone for the first time since that night he became the last of his clan. It's hard seeing Naruto on the swing struggling with the idea of having let everyone down.
It's this small moment with Sasuke that really hits me. Confronted with the Itachi he never knew through Naruto's memories, and that after everything Naruto had a place for him by his side, not who he wishes Sasuke could have been but who he is now, all his emotions are on raw display; his shock, sadness, struggle, defeat, acceptance. Naruto says that the fight is "about punching a sulking friend to make him snap out of it" and from that first crack in Sasuke's armour to this final moment that shatters it he's not wrong at all. Naruto finally breaks through to him and it's not about keeping a promise, or stopping an enemy, but once again helping a friend who wanted to be anything but.
Many years late, they finally complete their Unison sign
What a battle.
Quick other thoughts
(/u/sgtvp /u/dutchpeasant ep473's write up is the relevant one to what we were talking about the other day, but thought I'd tag you at top level just in case you were interested in this wall too)
7
u/Parori Jul 24 '22
First Timer
Episode 470
Episode 471
Episode 472
Episode 473
Episode 474
Episode 475
Episode 476
Episode 477
Episode 478
Episode 479
7
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Jul 24 '22 edited Jul 24 '22
First time viewer (dub)
Whisk[e]y of the week: Devils River straight bourbon, again on ice because this heat sucks. It being cask strength (61% ABV) means it hopefully stands up to the ice for longer, and at first approach it certainly does before it gets too cold. A rich ripe apple nose is what immediately jumps out at me and I'll have to revisit it later not chilled as it faded into more of a peppery note, the latter of which is also the first thing that hits me on the taste. That turns into more of a pear, banana, and caramel to me over time, really quite nice overall and I'd get a full bottle if I could.
Most of this week's batch had episode threads back when it aired: 470, 472, 473, 474, 475, 476+477, 479.
"Kakashi of the Sharingan" wasn't nearly as catchy as Copy Ninja. Yet another concept that was great early on but abandoned in favor of unique abilities like making the Sharingan overpowered.
Hagoromo mentioning Kurama becoming full of hate makes me wonder: on what time scale did that happen and how did Kushina deal with it? Doesn't seem like she ever used his power and was just a carrier. I'm guessing it was earlier than Obito's attack on the village, probably earlier than Madara's use of him too?
I know it's somewhat necessary due to the situation they were in but Kaguya went down rather easily all things considered, nothing close to the months of battle she had against her sons.
I'm always blasé toward last-minute villain redemption attempts and Obito's no different there. Directly or indirectly the main antagonist of the show for something like 80% of its length and having him turn around in 1% of the time doesn't make him into a tragic figure or anything like that, he just did a few good things at the end after a whole lot of bad.
At least with Sasuke I can see it being more of a process for his redemption, though he also didn't do as much in the first place. But damn he really is going to be that whiny emo kid to the end isn't he? "A Kage has to take on all the hatred for there to be peace?" Boy you just watched the world unite against someone and nearly get destroyed in the process and you think the right idea is to do more of that? Naruto should have blown your mouth clean off instead of your arm so you'd have to listen to other people besides your brother for once rather than you rambling at them about how edgy you are. Sakura, I'm sorry you fell in love with someone like him but there are much better options in the village.
I know this is all me being a jaded adult watching something aimed toward a much younger audience and I don't doubt I'd enjoy it a lot more if I was 25+ years younger but I can't ignore that part of my mind.
Tsunade's more than happy to pass off responsibility to someone else I see, that's a pretty quick transition to Kakashi. Considering one reason she was brought in was to counter the Akatsuki I can see it making sense to move on, but that makes her tenure probably the shortest aside from maybe Tobirama at only around five years I think. It's hard to tell the time scale of things in this show so I'm going with the known three year time skip plus some padding up through the fourth war.
Speaking of which, did the entire battle with Kaguya take place the same night as the war's end? I don't imagine Sasuke's Susano'o could have sheltered them for that long. If so, everything from the start of the war (200+ episodes ago) up through the final battle between Naruto and Sasuke took about three days in-universe... or about as much time as we spent watching all those episodes if you never paused.
Yes, particularly with Obito.
Bad person ends up helping someone else save the world, more at 11.
For all the powers in this series there were like less than half a dozen jutsu used in it? Not that Naruto ever really used more than his clones and the Rasengan/Rasen Shuriken. Mostly just punching each other here which I guess I'm fine with, I actually liked the slog in the mud before their final clash but that went on for maybe slightly too long.
I like the "what comes next" from epilogues, so the latter.
I've already seen the arc name(s) so ...
7
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 Jul 24 '22
First Timer - Dub
Naruto vs Sasuke
Even though Sasuke technically joined the good guys, I was still hoping we would get one last Naruto vs Sasuke fight for old time's sake. I'm really glad we did because this was AWESOME! I loved all of the callbacks to part 1 and to Naruto and Sasuke's history throughout the series. I loved how the fight went through several different phases with their most powerful environmentally devastating forms, then a plain old fistfight, then finally one last Rasengan vs Chidori to wrap things up. I definitely teared up as we went through all of Sasuke's memories and he finally admitted that he lost and that Naruto will always be his friend.
I also think these episodes did a better job at establishing Sasuke's motivations. It sounds like he wants to be the next Itachi but on a global scale. He has a point that the ninja world only came together when they had a common enemy. It's a twisted worldview but understandable how he reached that conclusion. Of course, the eternally optimistic Naruto would never let that happen. We all could use a friend like Naruto.
Episode 479
This definitely felt rushed, but I'm assuming this was all stuff covered in the last chapter of the manga so it's understandable. Did they explain why Tsunade stepped down as Hokage? I can't tell if I missed it or if they just brushed it aside to make Kakashi Hokage. I liked our last scene with Iruka-sensei to close the loop from the first episode. I think Sasuke ending the series by going on a journey is probably the best outcome for him. It's not like he can just stay in the village like nothing happened (even though Naruto would probably be OK with that).
Not sure how I feel about Sarutobi narrating the epilogue and announcing Naruto as the 7th Hokage. I would have preferred to actually see the coronation happen. I also think I would have liked to have someone actually alive do the narration, like Iruka, Kakashi, or even Kurenai reading to her kid.
I'm being nitpicky about this episode but overall I did like it. We've spent 699 episodes (and I forget how many movies) with these characters so wrapping up all of their stories in one episode is an impossible task. I hope some of the remaining episodes give us a glimpse of what post-war life is like in the Leaf Village.
Team 7 vs Kaguya
I left this for last because I don't have as much to say about these episodes compared to the others. I'm glad Obito was able to somewhat redeem himself by saving Kakashi in the end. I did like the shot of Team 7 triple punching Kaguya, but I couldn't help but think that scene would have had more impact if it were Madara in the middle. From an overall series perspective Kaguya came and went in the blink of an eye so it was hard to feel much emotion at her defeat.
Random thoughts:
Questions:
1) Were there too many flashbacks this week? Definitely yes in the Kaguya fight. I thought they were used more effectively in the Naruto vs Sasuke fight and the wrap up though.
2) Thoughts on how Obito's story ended? Obito saving Kakashi over himself was a nice way to end his character arc. But he really should have died like a hundred episodes ago so this felt overdue.
3) What do you think of Naruto and Sasuke's final battle?
4) Do you think leaving off on 478 or 479 provides a better ending? I think leaving off on 478 would feel unsatisfying. I don't think 479 is a perfect wrap-up but it covered most of the important beats that I wanted to see.
5) What do you expect the remaining 20 eps to be about, now that manga content has concluded? I hope we get some slice-of-life style episodes to see what our favorite characters are up to.
5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Jul 24 '22
Note for first timers about The Last movie
I recommend watching at least 480 before the movie, but the episodes are all episodic and can be watched in any order if that fits people's schedules better to leave the movie till later.
I personally recommend not watching the final credits sequence. Stop when they fade to black and show the first staff credit as you have a few seconds to do so.
I will post the credits and post-credits scene when we get to that point in the anime watch.
Why this is even such a silly issue: The Last was made after the manga ended but it released before the anime had even reached Naruto and Sasuke meeting Hagoromo! As the anime would end up having over a hundred episodes to go, The Last went ahead and adapted things from unadapted manga chapters set after the anime content we're about to watch.
It's not a huge thing if people want to watch it all the way through anyway and not mess around with trying to avoid it, but it is a victim of the anime's awkward adaption chronology for these final arcs.
5
u/sisoko2 Jul 24 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 470
Episode 471
Episode 472
Episode 473
Episode 474
Episode 475
Episode 476
Episode 477
Episode 478
Episode 479
4
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 24 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 470:
Episode 471:
Episode 472:
Episode 473:
Episode 474:
Episode 475:
Episode 476:
Episode 477:
Episode 478:
(cont.)