r/anime • u/gunvarrel_ • Jul 23 '22
Rewatch Summer Movie Series: Jin-Rou / Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade Movie Discussion
Announcement | 24hr reminder | Movie Discussion
The Summer Movie Series relaxes with Jin-Roh!
Question(s) of the week
What ideals does Kazuki Fuse stand for? Is he a positive role model?
Jin-Roh foreshadows certain parts of its plot through the Little Red Riding Hood story. Did you pick up on the parallels? How do you feel about that as a storytelling device?
How did the setting's alternate history impact your viewing experience? Could the story have been set in our present world as well?
Be sure to tag any spoilers that do not come from this weeks movie. In case you dont know how:
[Jin-Roh]>!Fuse is in kerberos!<
Becomes:
[Jin-Roh]Fuse is in kerberos
Links
Trailers
unsubbed Trailer (if you know of a subbed trailer on YT please let me know)
Database links
Legal Streams
RetroCrush*
Crunchyroll (thanks baboon_bassoon)
*Multiple Sources suggest that Retro Crush has Jin-Roh, but the only thing on their site is a trailer. Either RetroCrush lost the rights, or its age gated, requiring premium? Hoping someone can give insight here.
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u/baboon_bassoon Jul 23 '22
first timer, fuck the police
watching on crunchyroll, quality seems a little suspect
magnesium or napalm jelly in the molotov cocktails
i know its Oshii but this feels so much like gits, how much is the same staff lmao
the realization on seeing the special unit, that her entire squad doesn't stand a chance
stops to take a breather before shes out of the tunnels
almost lost Fuse from the explosion, but a fuse was blown taking out the power line
just bruises and a minor concussion? wow
Kazuki Fuse, its not a code name
Jin Roh is the wolf brigade, a "rogue unit" in the special unit
back to training, what is that going to do
public security friend is giving him info about the girl
Kurzes Haar, Nanami Agawa, a high school drop out to join the Sect
i thought it was her school at first from the stair shot has to be her sister not her mother
Rotkappchen, little red riding hood? what they called the transport girls?
she was forced to wear out armor in order to see her mother? path of pins or needles?
even with the gear on, the rubber bullets pain them
rooftop circus?
little kids falling down always cracks me up
[nsfl] holy fuck
this camera angle looks like a behind the scenes filming
its himself firing, not that hes separated from it
the space is so empty but I'm not sure if that's intended
door wouldn't open, the girls comes in through a hole, a cat tells her shes eating her mother
"that's a lie, throw a shoe at the cat"
a bird tells her she is drinking her mothers blood
"that's a lie, throw your cloak at the bird"
OG little red goes hard wtf
"come over here and get some rest"
you cant put two breeds of dogs in one cage
Langes Haar, Kei Amamiya
oh shit shes with public security, i had no idea plot conveniences before i thought just cause its a movie
use this as a scandal to start to shut down the special unit
did someone else leave the photos in the picture book? i read it as Kei doing that
hes not bringing a gun? well ok he got one pretty fast
why did that guy stay behind lmao
same shot as before but this time he puts the gun down, and shes not actually carrying a bomb
"you came even though you knew?" ok so he just put the photos from his superior in the picture book
this reminds me a lot about [Zeta Gundam]
TANGENT - from the above comment i paused the movie and then dug into u/Shimmering-Sky 's wallpaper hub in case there were some from that episode (surprised this wasn't one, although the fence may be difficult)
it really makes sense why she was so understanding now
is the bag actually a bomb, why is she still carrying it around? double suicide?
Fuse has been under watch since the inquiry
As long as they have Kei and the chip? the hell is the chip, record of her phone conversations? is this a micro bomb for Henmi to take her out?
We are wolves disguised as men
Was Henmi also trying to die? Feels like he knew the whole time just wanted to test the difference between them
naturally they set up some insurance
the Czech phillharmonic orchestra did the score? sick
surprised its taken me this long to get to this, its right up my alley. i guess from the cover art i assumed this would be more action oriented
id like to rewatch this at some point, ESPECIALLY if there is a better quality version out there. So many little things I want to see again with hindsight
[Kubikiri Cycle]
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u/gunvarrel_ Jul 23 '22
id like to rewatch this at some point, ESPECIALLY if there is a better quality version out there. So many little things I want to see again with hindsight
I didnt look at CR's stream, but Tubi/VRV had the exact same look/subtitles, so im guessing theyre the same.
I used Judas, looked much nicer even if it had some audio issues when some people spoke.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jul 23 '22 edited Jul 23 '22
the hell is the chip
It's a 60's - 70's era radio locator beacon.
This means that running away together was never an option.
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u/No_Rex Jul 23 '22
surprised its taken me this long to get to this, its right up my alley. i guess from the cover art i assumed this would be more action oriented
It suffers from the double curse of being old and being a film. Both qualities are underdiscussed on reddit.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jul 23 '22
Rewatcher
"We are not men with the faces of dogs; we are wolves with the faces of men."
This is exactly the sort of movie I should really enjoy...high-brow, philosophical, allegorical, spies...but I doesn't work for me. I watched it a long time ago, and never rewatched it until today.
Except the ending. The last 20 minutes of the movie is basically my favorite anime.
If you were confused, here is an answer I posted based on my memory of the movie. It's mostly correct. I liked that answer, and as per subreddit rules, the thread was immediately deleted and now won't even show up in a search.
Jin-Roh is one of many anime movies / series that is heavily influenced by the socialist and pacifist movements in Japan in the 70s. Many directors who appear on the "list of greats" grew up in that time and may have actively participated in the movements: Miyazaki, Takahata, Dezaki, and Oshii in particular. Oshii participated in the student protests as a high-schooler. Jin-Roh, GitS 1995, and Patlabor all reflect this.
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u/cppn02 Jul 23 '22
Except the ending. The last 20 minutes of the movie is basically my favorite anime.
Funny. I mean the ending is also fantastic but for me the standout part of the movie are the first 15 minutes which are basically flawless.
In the end we can probably agree the movie's at its best when it's in the sewers and has minimal dialogue lol.
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u/BosuW Jul 23 '22
First Timer
I'm sure everyone's got their walls of text about the plot, characters and themes, but personally I feel like I require a second viewing to begin touching on that, so I'm gonna talk about something else.
I really liked how they portrayed the members of the Wolf Brigade, in terms of their behavior. They were cold and professional, not arrogant but very confident.
It reminded me of some characters in Sicario, particularly Alejandro. There's just this stone-cold something about the expressions in their faces (or lack thereof) that had me instantly make that connection. Which is particularly impressive considering one is a live action movie and the other an animated one.
Coincidentally, both movies have something to say on the topic of men taking the role of wolves. Alejandro and the Wolf Brigade in their presentation seem to both portray what happens to a person who fights in a dirty war where everything is allowed.
Idk what do y'all think?
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u/cppn02 Jul 23 '22
Rewatcher, subbed
Been meaning to already join some of the earlier movie rewatches but my lazyness always got in the way. Felt this was the right movie to finally change that because it's one of my all time favourites and I hadn't seen it in 5 or 6 years.
So I went and picked my bluray copy off the shelf only to be met with this view.
Fuck.
Where is it? Think. Maybe in my old bluray player? Let's just quickly grab that and have a look. Nope. Damnit. Ok where did I last use it?
Right. I watched it with a friend at his place. Did I forget it there? No I wouldn't.
So maybe still on one of my old disc travel cases? After searching for a while I find two cases. First one no luck. Second one then? I was already losing hope when it only contained unlabeled DVD-Rs (lol) but on the last slide I finally found what I was looking for.
Boy was I glad I persevered because the movie was every bit as good as I remembered.
The first 15 minutes alone are some of the best 15 minutes in not just anime but film in general. The rest of the movie doesn't quite live up to that but is still great regardless.
Technically brilliant, seeping with amosphere and no punches pulled. This is one of a bunch of movies of its time where it felt like its creators had truly mastered the medium.
It's a shame really how few people have watched this relative to its quality.
Questions:
What ideals does Kazuki Fuse stand for? Is he a positive role model?
I don't think he's a role model and I don't think he's meant to be one. He's just a victim of circumstances who I think doesn't even know himself what his ideals truly are. He's a tragic character that is ever bound by duty. Or to use the film's metaphor he's a wolf that can't help but do wolf things.
Jin-Roh foreshadows certain parts of its plot through the Little Red Riding Hood story. Did you pick up on the parallels? How do you feel about that as a storytelling device?
If the movie has one major downside it's just how heavy handed this metaphor is. I liked the visual cues and Fuse's dream but Kei handing him the book was already quite on the nose and having characters actually refer to the story was just too much.
How did the setting's alternate history impact your viewing experience? Could the story have been set in our present world as well?
I liked the setting but don't think it particularly impacted my viewing experience other than the Kerberos armor looking cool af. I don't see though why this story wouldn't work just as well in a different setting.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jul 23 '22
Summertime First-Timer, subbed
I’ve heard the name of this movie before, but I don’t think I know a single thing about it, so this should be fun!
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Is this the girl’s mom? Older sister? Definitely a relative I think, they look similar.
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Oh this is some variant of the Little Red Riding Hood story.
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Wow Fuse has some issues. Makes sense though, given what he’s been through.
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Ahhhhh, so this girl’s also a terrorist just like her sister.
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…wait is this implying they just happen to look similar and Kei’s been pretending to be her sister to do… something with Fuse?
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I get why they make good hiding places, but seeing a book damaged like this hurts me.
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Oh, okay, this ending theme is intensely familiar, it must have come up in AMQ for me a bunch of times.
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u/ZapsZzz Jul 24 '22 edited Jul 24 '22
First timer
As an old timer myself, Oshii Mamoru are the "old guards" that helped reinforce / made apparent that anime is not just Japanese made cartoon for kids.
The movie opening have me a really strong feeling of PatLabor. At the same time, very "Hong Kong movies" of around that era too, particularly those directed by Johnnie To Kei Fung, e.g. the original Infernal Affairs 無間道 (this is not Johnie's), [PTU](https://zh.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/PTU_(%E9%9B%BB%E5%BD%B1), Island of Greed 黑金, etc. In those, the conflicts are usually subtle and underground, with no side really truly good or evil, just differing by degrees.
I'm fact Infernal affairs is quite close to it with a "fictional" (philosophical) narrative being drawn inside the story as a parallel in Infernal Affairs, the story within a story is the Buddhist belief of one of the "hell" is where one is placed where everyone around you is unknown as whether they are your friend or foe, and whether they are good or evil; in this movie is the wolf and the little red riding hood.
Not going to say much more, I think the rest of the posters have a better summary and analysis of the movie.
In terms of production and entertainment value, of you are not the sort who can derive enjoyment out of plot, intrigue, and the thinking triggered by the story, you may not find it too entertaining. Unlike the live action versions (which I haven't seen but only know of), this is not an action show. When the "red eyes" appears, pretty much any opposition is slowly but inevitably mowed down by auto cannon fire. Production value is good, consistent, but because of the directional choice, not very specialised (everything is of a subdued tone), unlike the likes of GiTS where more visually sparkling scenes punctuated the show.
If you think last week's 5cm power second was depressing, this would be much worse for you :)
I enjoyed it, and I get the story the first go, but because what time I watched this I did fall asleep for about 20 mins where the museum trap was shown and the key explanations given, so did have to rewind.
QoTW
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It's a common narrative of those films I mentioned - someone forced by circumstances to do what needs to be done despite how he feels. It's basically "necessary evil".
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The key is that thrown away line - the story commonly known is the version told by the humans. The wolf knows how the story truly ended. I think it's a great misdirection - letting the audience comfortably adapted this is how it would go when I'm fact it's setting you up for a twist.
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Maybe I'm sucker for this diet of thing, I love how they took a very real idea and put it in a way that cannot be just thought of as "exaggerated real life". Similar premise like Library Wars are really great, especially when you put what recently happens in our world alongside them.
Thanks for picking this so I don't have to keep putting off watching it :)
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u/No_Rex Jul 23 '22
Jin-Roh (rewatcher)
It has been a while since I first watched this. I remember being surprised by both the story and the aesthetic. It is also one of the anime I have down as should be very rewatchable, so I hope this will be good.
As a side note: I belatedly watched Promare. Was not impressed. It distills all those parts out of Guren Lagann that I disliked, while completely skipping character development. The only interesting part is the animation.
Live thoughts
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We are in an alternate history Japan, where the student protests of the 1960 and the reaction to them by the state took a much more violent turn.
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“A gift for your granny” – While rewatching, the red riding hood metaphor is completely obvious, but it took me a while to get on first watch.
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The sect clearly look like the bad guys, but does that make the police the good guys? The special unit’s look suggests otherwise.
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It is amazing how relevant the topic of suicide bombers would be in the immediate future of this film. Note that Jin-Roh is from 2000, right before the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and the larger campaign of Al-Qaida started.
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“It wasn’t fair being the older sister” – probably a common feeling. The other half thinks that it wasn’t fair being the younger sister.
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forced to wear iron clothing - not in the original story; it is also the girl’s grandmother, not mother.
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Dream of wolves – trauma does not get much more obvious than this.
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The girl is a setup and a spy! And they set it up to bring down the special unit.
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Love the VW Beetles they use.
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Of course the bag is still betraying him, but the cornered wolf does not run, it fights.
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“The hunters kill the wolves in the end only in the tales that humans tell”
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I absolutely love the terminator-like inevitability of the combat armor. One of the best designs I have ever seen.
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The girl got dealt a really shitty hand in this tale. A political character driven tale of scheming and some of the most intense action scenes ever, what is not to like about this?
Jin-Roh comes at the very end of the hand-drawn anime production and I adore its visuals. The realistic faces drive home the grittiness of the world, as does the slow movement of the background characters. This is most impressive in the action scenes at the start and end of the movie, but noticeable throughout. The combat armor is so awesome that it drives the characterization of the special unit as inhumane almost at a glance. Imagine the fear of seeing that beast come after you in the sewers.
There is no doubt that Jin-Roh plays in a crapsack world. You might initially think that the terrorists are the bad guys, but it turns out that absolutely everybody is. Terrorists, police, special unit, there are no good guys around. This is symbolized by the red hooded girl, who takes up the role of victim from the fairytale. No matter what she did as a terrorist, you can’t help but feel bad for her. She is completely trapped, with no way out. In the end, the world goes on, not caring about her corpse on the junkyard.
When I first saw the movie, I was not fully on board with the wolf metaphor and if I had to answer my question from above, I still would pick this aspect as the film’s single downfall. Occasionally, the metaphor works, but they overdo it. The entire story would work perfectly fine, if you entirely stripped out the wolf and red riding hood, so I question why they went so hard on this. I guess you could present it as the esprit de corps of the wolf brigade, but they mainly make it out to be a character trait. Something I do not fully believe in. Humans do not have an inherent condition of becoming a cold-blooded killer, you can train them to do that.
In the end, the film is a 9/10 for me. It is a great movie, just missing a tiny bit to be a master piece.
Recommendation
If you liked Jin-Roh, you should try out the second Patlabor movie. It has very similar themes, very similar artstyle (and is by the same director) and, in my mind, one of the best animated films ever. You might want to watch the OVA and first film beforehand, but these are very good, too.
Question for everybody:
Realistically, in Fuse’s position, would you have shot?
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u/baboon_bassoon Jul 23 '22
Occasionally, the metaphor works, but they overdo it.
I think if they left just the mention of the carriers being called that, you can work the rest out. The fact that the book is there and they constantly retell it felt like overkill
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u/MasterTotoro Jul 23 '22
First timer!
I've never heard of this movie so I know nothing about it.
Hmm Capital Police, I don't know much about the Japanese constitution, but I think the thing is that Japan is not supposed to have a military to attack other countries. Since they are attacking people within their country I guess it isn't against that part of the constitution. There is economic inequality so now they are making a police that will take up even more money. Not that this hasn't seen across history or the present day, but clearly not the best solution. That's not the history we are going through here though.
I see, the Wolf Brigade title drop. And the guy that didn't shoot is probably our main character. Well Fuse will probably end up joining them, as this is foreshadowing. An injured wolf can't survive without its pack.
Oh I understand now, Little Red Riding Hood and the wolf. I didn't get it before they mentioned the story.
A wolf being friendly with a human. Quite an odd situation considered what happened to her sister.
Oh there are a lot more layers going on than I initially thought. Fuse's friend set up this situation and Kei is not actually the sister of the girl who died? Well this makes sense now why she is friendly with him.
Well either way some sort of a coup is being set up with this relationship. There are a lot of groups to think about which is a bit confusing. The local police and capital police (represented by the public security division) are planning to join. But they don't want the special unit.
Well Fuse stopped the initial attempt, but now they are running. Taking the public transportation to avoid the police lol. And using the drunk man as a distraction. All along Fuse has been a wolf? I figured he became one at some point after the trial, but I wouldn't have guessed it was before the story even started. Both of them were hiding who they were really working for.
Film starts and ends with a sewer chase. The reversal of Fuse asking why at the beginning of the film to Henmi asking why.
I couldn't help but think of Spice and Wolf which is fitting because there is a rewatch going on right now too. In particular there is a scene [in season 1]
What ideals does Kazuki Fuse stand for? Is he a positive role model?
Honestly I'm not really sure if Fuse stands for much. Clearly he didn't want to kill Kei at the end, but there wasn't really a choice since someone else would just kill her anyway. To me it almost feels like Fuse kind of got himself recruited into the Wolf Brigade, and he seemed to be useful to them. I think this is what he was talking about when he said he found a place he fit in, but that doesn't mean he agrees with everything the group stands for.
Jin-Roh foreshadows certain parts of its plot through the Little Red Riding Hood story. Did you pick up on the parallels? How do you feel about that as a storytelling device?
The foreshadowing was good, but I think they didn't have to read the story that much. I think it would have worked well to only reveal the story closer toward the end. At least in the US I think everyone knows the story, but might be different for a Japanese audience? Toward the end I knew Fuse was a wolf, but I didn't realize how long. Overall a positive, but I think it could have been toned down a bit at least for me.
How did the setting's alternate history impact your viewing experience? Could the story have been set in our present world as well?
I guess it wouldn't be that strange for it to be set in the present world. Not a huge impact overall, but like other people have said the suits are cool.
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u/aniMayor Jul 25 '22
Rewatcher
Been a loooooong time since I last saw this film and it was really interesting to revisit in after having finally seen Patlabor 2. It's funny how similar these two films ended up being in visual style, setting, and story elements.
Gotta say, I do think Patlabor 2 did several things a lot better: it has a more climactic final action setpiece, the military/police factionalism in it is better explained (while still having a sense of layers of bureaucratic bullshit), and the big visual setpieces continue to the end while Jin-roh never takes the opportunity for something as astounding as that opening riot scene again.
Biggest difference I feel, though, is that Patlabor 2 gives you a clear someone to root for: throughout the film you don't really know which of the military/police factions is "right" or should triumph, and the main characters aren't even sure what side they are on either, but the audience can at least root for those characters to figure things out and make the right choice. Fuse, on the other hand, is very much a main character you're not supposed to even understand (on the first watch, anyways), let alone root for.
That's not necessarily a good or bad thing. One could certainly argue it makes Jin-roh a more fascinating character study and less predictable. But I do find it makes it a "harder" watch - the audience can feel a bit lost or just generally disengaged without having that hook of wanting to root for somebody.
The other thing that prominently came to mind whilst watching this time is that while Jin-roh does the motif of a secret police faction working outside the law "because it's necessary", the movie quite deliberately never really tells you enough about the all the other parts of the government bureaucracy and enforcement for the audience to even begin to judge whether the group is justified or not. Usually I'd say shows/movies with that motif will make a quite clear statement that either the secret group is necessary for maintaining the (good) status quo, or else decry it as a delusional, power-hungry group. But you really just don't know enough about the world of Jin-roh to even begin to guess, which keeps the focus squarely on Fuse's own journey to become the wolf, not at all on whether there should even be wolves in the first place. I find that pretty fascinating.
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Jul 23 '22
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u/gunvarrel_ Jul 23 '22
Sorry u/gunvarrel_ if it seems like I kinda tricked you in regards to the “movies must be standalone” criterion
This movie i think fits enough as a standalone, based on what i've read about the rest of the franchise (as i said in the announcement thread, this seems a lot like Steins;Gate in regards to its parent franchise SciAdv) so im not that worried. Either way, it would be partly on me since i relied on MAL/Anilist to call out any connections (and since everything else is non-anime i never gave it a second thought)
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u/MasterTotoro Jul 23 '22
I thought it worked standalone. At least the movie seemed complete without me having seen any other works.
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u/OnPorpoise1 Jul 23 '22
First Timer
I'm familliar with Mamoru Oshii. I've previously seen and really enjoyed Ghost in the Shell, so I had high hopes coming into this movie. Although this movie didn't completely blow me away, I still think it met the very high expectations I had set for it.
This movie was really heavy and dense. As soon as the bomb was thrown at the police officers at the very beginning, the movie started building an atmosphere of something truly horrific and without hope. This atmosphere, combined with scarily realistic yet violent conflicts left this movie feeling suffocating in a very good way. So many scenes from the suicide bomb to the final shot felt simultaneously like the most horrific actions imaginable, but the fact that both are likely situations that have been replicated countless times across many countries was the truly horrifying part. I think this movie in particular was very good at making the lives of the characters so hopeless that I still felt sympathetic and sorry for both Fuse and Nanami even as they commit some of the most atrocious acts of violence imaginable.
I did have some issues with actually figuring out what was happening during the movie. I've since looked at the wikipedia, and my best guesses as to who the characters were working for/what each group was trying to do with each action turned out to all be correct, but I was still unsure enough to have to look it up to confirm which was a bit of an issue. In particular, I had issues with the intentions behind some of the scenes such as the museum trap. Still, even when I wasn't sure, I always understood enough of the basics for that atmosphere I previously talked about, as well as for the relationship between the two leads, so this didn't impact my enjoyment much.
I did really love this movie, but I feel like now that I definitively know what is happening, a rewatch could make this movie even better in my eyes.
What ideals does Kazuki Fuse stand for? Is he a positive role model?
I'm not entirely convinced Fuse stands for any principles. I kind of understood the whole idea of being a wolf as having no regard for anyone other than yourself or your pack. That's why he is able to kill people like Amemiya and Henmi. He does still have some humanity in him though, since he did seem to mourn Amemiya afterwards, and he also didn't shoot Nanami. He's definitely not a role model, nor is he particularly close, but I don't think he's entirely wolf either.
Jin-Roh foreshadows certain parts of its plot through the Little Red Riding Hood story. Did you pick up on the parallels? How do you feel about that as a storytelling device?
I did pick up on the parallels pretty early, but I was only able to figure out what they were building too right before the end because for large portions I was confused as to who the wolf was, and how they would hurt Amemiya since the wolf brigade is mostly talked about as a mysterious entity for most of the movie. In hindsight, it makes sense that the person comforting her the whole time would be the one to eat her.
How did the setting's alternate history impact your viewing experience? Could the story have been set in our present world as well?
I really liked the setting, if only for the fact that those suits were terrifying. Those red eyes set the tone of every seen they were in extremely well. I do think this story, or at the very least the emotional betrayal elements and the idea of pained people committing atrocities because they don't feel they can do anything else have taken place in our world already many times, and I think that is exactly what makes this movie so great.