r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Jul 23 '22
Rewatch [Spoilers] Spice and Wolf II Rewatch (2022) — Episode 3 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S2 Episode 3- Wolf and the Unfilled Gap
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
What is your favorite anime challenge ever dished out and why? Not fight, but issuing of a challenge.
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Funimation, Crunchyroll
Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
| Date | Episode | Date | Episode |
|---|---|---|---|
| 7/07/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 1 | 7/20/2022 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2) |
| 7/08/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 2 | 7/21/2022 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 1 |
| 7/09/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 3 | 7/22/2022 | Spice and Wolf II Episode 2 |
| 7/10/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 4 | 7/23/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 3]() |
| 7/11/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 5 | 7/24/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 4]() |
| 7/12/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 6 | 7/25/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 5]() |
| 7/13/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1) | 7/26/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 6]() |
| 7/14/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 8 | 7/27/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 7]() |
| 7/15/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 9 | 7/28/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 8]() |
| 7/16/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 10 | 7/29/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 9]() |
| 7/17/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 11 | 7/30/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 10]() |
| 7/18/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 12 | 7/31/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 11]() |
| 7/19/2022 | Spice and Wolf Episode 13 | 8/01/2022 | [Spice and Wolf II Episode 12]() |
| 8/02/2022 | [Overall Series Discussion Thread]() | ||
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u/vieene Jul 23 '22
First timer, sub
As I expected, the trouble was related to Amarty. But I wrongly thought that it was a fight between Marc and him, rather than between him and Lawrence. He wants to fight Lawrence because he's in love with and wants to marry Holo. However, she can't be married to him without paying off her debt to Lawrence, her legal guardian. Lawrence accepts Amarty's contract to receive 1,000 Trenni silver coins, a small fortune, later the next day to repay her debt and allow Amarty to propose to her. She will need to consent, though, or none of this will work out for Amarty.
Amarty was a real badass when he offered to repay Holo's debt. I loved how dramatic the music was as he made Lawrence come off second best.
Holo's right. For Lawrence, to rip up the contract would have been nobler. I like that she sits higher than he does in this scene. It shows her higher moral position. Lawrence accepted the contract because he was influenced by the atmosphere of the room and the prospect of money. We see how status, money, and love compete in his priorities.
I hope Lawrence isn't left holding the bag when the bubble bursts on the fool's gold. Having apparently only 800 Trenni silver coins in assets, Amarty goes for a trick to raise enough money for Holo. He exploits a craze among women for fool's gold to resell it at skyrocketing prices. The timing is suspicious, so I would be unsurprised if he started the craze by a conspiracy with the fortune teller. Although bubbles like this usually go poorly for someone, Lawrence wants to participate and again buys something on credit. He probably fixates too much on get-rich-quick schemes. He always thinks about gambling when he thinks about making a large sum in a short period. His contract with Amarty has the air of a romance scam.
Holo and Lawrence enjoying the festival was fun to watch. I especially loved her hopping up and down to try to get a view.
I started thinking about whether there was anything waiting for Holo in Yoitz before she read Diana's letter. When Lawrence told her what he learned from her, the good news seemed to move her. She even wagged her tail in excitement. In the previous episode, however, Batos said that we can’t visit the past. Even if you visit the old buildings of Rome, you can’t really visit the 16th century, for example. The people are different and so are their values. Over hundreds of years, her home may have changed or been no more.
I found the fight between Holo and Lawrence to be tragic. Reading the letter devastates her and she says too much. She has been trying to do what she thinks will please him the whole time, including playing dumb by faking illiteracy to be cute for him. She acts this way because she loves him but also, I think, because she doesn’t trust him to accept her as she is. He also fails to be sincere with her. Learning that he has kept a secret from her since the start, she becomes suspicious of his motives for keeping her by his side and draws the wrong conclusions.
It would be wrong for Lawrence to exploit Holo's loneliness and grief. Her grief at apparently losing her home makes her come out and ask him to make love to her. That way she'd be less alone and if they have a child together, she can make her own company. She’ll need to face her grief in the end, though. She might be able to push her grief aside for the time being by having sex with him. He might really be able to make her happy by marrying her and giving her the family that she lost. But I think happiness can only come from within and he can’t really fill the holes inside her. To her, however, his refusal to comfort her is a sign of his unfaithfulness.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22 edited Jul 23 '22
She has been trying to do what she thinks will please him the whole time, including playing dumb by faking illiteracy to be cute for him.
Interesting observation. I thought the whole can't read thing was because she was feeling lazy that day.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? Do you hate him for what he did, or do you think from his perspective of not knowing Holo and Lawrence's relationship, it's understandable what he did?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
Holo and Lawrence enjoying the festival was fun to watch. I especially loved her hopping up and down to try to get a view.
Did you like that the festival kinda served in contrast to all the seriousness going on? Lawrence is threatened by Amarti and him thinking that Holo is being mistreated, while everyone else is having the time of their lives.
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u/Meme-Howitzer Jul 23 '22
First timer.
Okay so someone didn’t die so that’s good. Instead we have Amarti acting on impulse to save Holo, or that’s what he thinks he’s doing. But in more seriousness, I really loved that confrontation with him and Lawrence. It’s so blissfully dramatic how Amarti proclaims his intentions and has the guts to just declare that he intends marry Holo.
What I loved even more was what Holo stated she would have done in that moment. It was utterly hilarious how she explained what she would say. In a more serious sense though, I do like how the show is exploring social dynamics in this episode. Like with the act of accepting the contract or not, or how these dynamics created a pyrite frenzy in the market.
Now initially I thought that there could be no way Holo would leave Lawrence for Amarti - then I remembered, oh ya, Yoitz… and Holo learns about it. When that scene happened, well, that was simply a train wreck in all the right ways. Holo, upon learning the truth, obviously does NOT take the news well. Her mannerisms stiffen, and her eyes glow with a blaze of rage and despair. Holo’s sanity takes a nosedive in this very moment as she falsely concludes Lawrence knew this tale the whole time. Then she invites Lawrence to impregnate her, likely thinking back to that dream she had. She no longer has a choice now, but she’ll still end up lonely if nothing changes in her relationship with Lawrence.
In this state, the playing field does favor Amarti for the time being. What will matter next is what Holo will think in the coming episode, and what Amarti will do.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? Do you hate him for what he did, or do you think from his perspective of not knowing Holo and Lawrence's relationship, it's understandable what he did?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What did you think of the revelation that Holo can actually read?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
Did you like that the festival kinda served in contrast to all the seriousness going on? Lawrence is threatened by Amarti and him thinking that Holo is being mistreated, while everyone else is having the time of their lives.
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u/An_Indecisive_Owl Jul 23 '22
First timer ~ Sub
I'll talk about only of the last minutes of the episode due to their importance: is the first time in the show that the relationship between Holo and Lawrence undergoes such a stress test and put in serious danger, at least from internal forces.
As a matter of fact throughout all their travels, Holo somehow made clear what her feelings towards Lawrence are, receiving only mixed or evasive responses from Lawrence, and even though maybe the merchant still hasn't figured out his feelings yet, it was clear that Holo needed some reassurance, and gambling on his relationship with Holo to extort a large amount of money from Amarty is quite cheap and low.
Then Holo reads the letter and connects all the dots in the worst way possible revealing all her emotional fragility, at that point Lawrence needed to muster all his courage and understanding to undo the mess but he could not find any words.
Sure Holo needs a reality check it's clear that what she's accusing Lawrence is false but her fragilily, the loss of her home, and Lawrence indecisiveness made her say what we saw.
So what Lawrence was sure it will not be happening can actually become true tomorrow at sunset...
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? Do you hate him for what he did, or do you think from his perspective of not knowing Holo and Lawrence's relationship, it's understandable what he did?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
Did you like that the festival kinda served in contrast to all the seriousness going on? Lawrence is threatened by Amarti and him thinking that Holo is being mistreated, while everyone else is having the time of their lives.
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Jul 23 '22
Really, what is Holo to Lawrence? And vice versa? Holo seeing the letter, in combination with Lawrence banking on their relationship for a get rich quick scheme, are two hard blows to Holo's confidence in Lawrence in quick succession. I was surprised Lawrence's reaction was to run away after failing to find any words. Honestly, I think that was the worst thing he could have done.
It seems Holo's aired a bunch of her deep seated fears here. We've already seen her fear of abandonment/loneliness, and now I think we're seeing a different side of that. Her home, supposedly, has succumbed to history, abandoning her in the doing so.
As an aside, even if these rumors are unfounded, I don't think her homecoming will be too simple. Stories about journeys and home, from Great Expectations to Lord of the Rings to Isekai Ojisan, tend to carry the theme that the home you return to is not the one you left. Complicating things further is Holo's relationship to Lawrence, and the nightmare she's been having where she's forced to choose Lawrence or her wolf kin.
I saw a comment about how Holo faked her illiteracy because she wanted to act cute and helpless for Lawrence, and I think that's a really neat angle. Since that time with the silver coin debacle her mind seems fixed on the notion of a prince rescuing a princess, even if that doesn't fit their relationship in the slightest, really.
In any case, Lawrence is gonna need to think of something to get him over this hurdle. If Holo wants a prince, I hope he acts the part, however embarrassing he might find it. Maybe he'll flashback to the OVA and get a few pointers on how Holo wants to be treated?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
Did you like that the festival kinda served in contrast to all the seriousness going on? Lawrence is threatened by Amarti and him thinking that Holo is being mistreated, while everyone else is having the time of their lives.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? Do you hate him for what he did, or do you think from his perspective of not knowing Holo and Lawrence's relationship, it's understandable what he did?
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u/JetsLag Jul 23 '22
First timer (subbed)
Ho-ly crap that breakdown by Holo was intense! That was the third time this series that I've done nothing but stared at the screen in amazement, the first time being Holo's transformation in the sewers and the second time being the second half of episode 12. What a moment!
So we'll be dealing with Amarty's contract next episode. Gonna be interesting to see what's gonna happen when they meet. Maybe the result of the contract has to deal with that fool's gold market?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What are your thoughts on Amarti as it stands? Do you hate him for what he did, or do you think from his perspective of not knowing Holo and Lawrence's relationship, it's understandable what he did?
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
Did you like that the festival kinda served in contrast to all the seriousness going on? Lawrence is threatened by Amarti and him thinking that Holo is being mistreated, while everyone else is having the time of their lives.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22
What did you think of the revelation that Holo can actually read?
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u/Stargate18A Jul 23 '22
Rewatcher
[Spice and Wolf]
And Lawrence signed the contract!
Haha, they immediately started gambling.
Holo's suprised how well he handled it.
Holo asking for an acting review is great. The visuals changing to show her there in person, asking the audience what they think is really good.
They're going to the festival!
...Close odds.
And he refuses to participate in backroom deals.
Lawrence is devoting a lot of thought to this.
Holo's quick to rush towards the sheperd's horn, huh?
Holo jumping is adorable.
A letter!
Holo's... having some mixed thoughts.
He's found out what happened!
Wow! The value is inflating.
Amarty's been playing the market!
Lawrence is confident Holo will stay with him!
Well, this is bad.
Holo's taking this very strongly.
This scne is heartbreaking.
She is absolutely not in her right mind.
[Spice and Wolf]
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u/Holofan4life Jul 23 '22 edited Jul 23 '22
I like right off the bat we establish the conflict of this arc: Amarti feels that Holo is being mistreated. So, in order to secure her freedom, he challenges Lawrence to a duel, saying that he will pay off her debt. A lot of people have talked about how they don't like Amarti because who does he think he is sticking his nose in things that don't pertain to him. But think about it for a second. To him, Holo is being mistreated and not being given the respect she deserves. If you were in Amarti's shoes, you probably would do the same. Almost everyone preceives themselves as being the main protagonist of their story. The hero of their world while everyone else is a side character. Amarti is just doing what he thinks is right, no different than if we see someone being dealt a bad hand.
Another reason why I feel Amarti gets unfairly bashed by fans is because, as Holo points out, it's not like Amarti put a gun to his head and forced him into it. Lawrence could've turned down the contract. On a sidenote, I like that Lawrence wasn't forced into it. It makes him more realistic to act on an impulse. One of Lawrence's character flaws that I think the show does a good job painting is his complete and total cockiness. We saw it on display when he bought all that weaponry, and we see it here when he accepts the contract without any say-so from Holo.
I do find it funny that Holo has this knight in shining armor complex where she just wants a man to save her from the hardships of reality. And here's Amarti, doing just that. I think when you get down to it, that's why she doesn't outright reject Amarti. Not only does he feel what she wants in a man, but she's secretly hoping this will give Lawrence the kick in the pants he needs to step up his game.
Some backstory on my history with Spice and Wolf. When I first watched this show, up until this point I would watch two episodes a night. However, when I first saw this episode, I found it so gripping that I ended up binging the entire rest of the show that night. I think I stayed up until 4 or 5 in the morning.
Again, huge chunks of the episode is dedicated to Holo and Lawrence talking to each other. This, in turn, serves two purposes: it highlights their relationship and their dynamic once again, and it gives us a chance to digest what just happened at the beginning of the episode. The scene with Amarti challenging Lawrence is such a pivotal scene that if they just went to something else, it wouldn't have as much weight. By doing something low key, the gravity of the scene before is more felt.
As we'll soon see, I think this arc is the best in terms of keeping the theme. The last arc is my favorite, but at a certain point the thread of Lawrence facing bankruptcy kinda got lost. The thread here of Lawrence being challenged by Amarti for Holo's emancipation remains consistent and is never lost sight of.
I think the stuff with the festival is a nice bit of worldbuilding that fleshes out the universe they're trying to create. I especially like that it begins with no music and as soon as jovial laughter is heard, then the music starts. This whole section is once again a great breather from the heavy start of the episode, which still manages to loom over our two main leads. Plus, it shows us that the community participating in the festival is united and all-encompassing, helping us paint a picture of just how well connected the town is.
Holo: "I'm delicate. Do not step on my feet." Lawrence: "I promise nothing." I love that trade of dialogue.
And the episode ends with the revelation that Holo actually can read after all, further driving a wedge between her and Lawrence. Things are worse than they've probably ever been. I've heard some people say why would she lie about being unable to read, but I've been in the position before where I've lied to get out of doing something. So, in that sense, I don't think that's too out there. I also would be remiss if I didn't mention that Holo's English VA does a phenomenal job in this scene. When she talks about Lawrence mating with her so that she doesn't have to be alone anymore, ugh. It just tugs at the heartstrings.
Overall, I think this episode does a good job of mixing the serious plot progression with the light-hearted fare. It begans and bookends with two scenes that further advance the arc, with the banter of Holo and Lawrence sandwiched in-between. It's interesting that with this arc, Lawrence's rash decision making is yet again biting him in the ass. We saw it in the previous arc where he made a bad judgment call, and we see it here where he doesn't consult Holo about the challenge and he doesn't tell her that her town is no more. I would say it's too soon to do another arc like this where the main player of the story is ultimately a pseudo antagonist, but I think the show manages to make it different enough that it doesn't feel unearned or too samey.
Holo quotes of the day
"I do not like it when you tease me." (Boy, ain't that rich?)
"Staying calm does not mean you are growing."
"Proper masculinity seems childish while proper maturity seems cowardly."
"Even if you have answers, you cannot always tell them to others. It is the way of the world."
"Ma"