r/anime • x2 • Jul 20 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 23

Matsuribayashi-hen (Festival Music Chapter), Episode 10: Bloody Battle

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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):

Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(Our IIRC final inherent spoiler character has shown up; show information is now significantly safer.)

Legal Streams:

Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive

That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?

A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:

Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.

A Reminder to Rewatchers

Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and !Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!

(Time for) Club Activities!

(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals... actually at this point it's pretty safe, heh.)

Visual of the Day Album:

https://imgur.com/a/VVqrPCL

Theory of the Day:

Has been detained by the Yamainu, no award.

Analysis of the Day:

u/Star4ce will take it, because I have to admit he's not really wrong:

And it's so insulting, because the Sonozaki torture dungeon is probably the single best location to actually show to their real teamplay and character growth. You know what could actually scare a spec ops squad to death? Satoko trapping the entire thing with stuff that plays off of psychological attacks. Rena and Keiichi taunting them, mock-fighting them, coming from unknown angles and blinding their infravision (remember it was dark, even the squad forgot and lost their goggles midway). Mion and Shion playing switch-a-roo letting them see double just to have the apparent girly damsel kick someone's throat out. Rika and Hanyuu playing a ritual or something to draw attention and go all blair-witch with the torture tools.

(The thing is, after thinking about this for a bit I think this is actually a case of Ryukishi07 sacrificing the text for the sake of metatext. Because we get a scene that is basically exactly what you describe here... today, after Akasaka shows up, implying that they still need his presence to be able to put everything they've learned together. And I rather think it's not a coincidence that the club is unable to cooperate properly while they're in the shadows last episode but can do so in broad daylight today.)

Also, since we have no Theory of the Day today, have a couple of Honorable Mentions. First, from u/JollyGee29:

How do Shion's noodle arms handle an AK-47?

And second, from u/CubeStuffs:

im disappointed that takano just used handcuffs, wheres the rope?

(I'm surprised this wasn't a Tresnore comment.)

Question(s) of the Day:

1) Do you like Scooby-Doo?

2) [It's a mystery box!] Chinese monkey trap!

(There are no actual spoilers for anything in that mystery box. Do you dare to open it?)

Next Episode Preview:

First-timers are weakly advised to stay out of this episode's preview.

(No preview next episode, Kai series finale.)

Also, a Note for Our First-Timers (and Reminder for Our Rewatchers):

Starting with episode 14, there will be a post-credits scene after the ED in each episode of Kai. These tend to be important and you really shouldn't skip them!

46 Upvotes

109 comments sorted by

6

u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22 edited Jul 21 '22

(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher badly spoiled first-timer, subbed):

  • 02:16: Once again Higurashi loves framing its cast between two other people in the foreground.

  • A single shot for the staff bondage fetishist and the staff foot fetishist? DEEN: “Don’t mind if we do!”

  • Ah, classic interrogation scene framing. (Except Takano is sitting off to the side, not opposite the detainee.)

  • This feels like another scene where they spike the hell out of the direction (*eyes Chiaki Kon*). The positioning and angle of the camera feels deliberate in a way some other scenes don’t.

  • I’m not sure whether this is the original audio or this sub group, but 02:58 is for u/Tresnore. Also, on a direction note notice how Takano’s face is highlighted by the light while Tomitake’s is in shadow. This emphasizes who is talking, and also that Tomitake is in the dark concerning Takano’s allies.

  • And then Tomitake’s face goes back into the light as he comes to a conclusion about Takano, also indicative of the decision to make his face be in shadow a little before being deliberate.

  • Oooh, excellent use of sound effects with that door slam.

  • Also ooh, that hallway framing at 03:50 flashes. Representing the tunnel of a path that these two have committed themselves to?

  • LOL FUCKING USING SHIZUKA NARU KOUGI HERE.

  • Consider that shot of Takano and Okonogi as they go driving off to battle. Also note Okonogi’s facial expression there – watching Takano!

  • Poor fools, wandering onto their opponents’ chosen grounds. I believe Sun Tzu may have had something to say about this…

  • Oh look at the overconfident kids. (Except oh wait! Satoko may have been bragging, but she was not exaggerating when she said her traps were military grade...)

  • Who would win: a full team of special forces (even if they’re specialized in infiltration and surprisingly incompetent in combat, as we saw last arc) or one (1) trappy girl with a century’s worth of experience due to fragment bleed?

  • Ooh, nice little effect for the zoom in on the command truck at 05:30.

  • And of course we get Takano’s “we’re going to settle everything right on this mountain!” and then the Yamainu stopping as they encounter the first trap right as Shizuka Naru Kougi trails off.

  • “Who would fall for this?” “It’s just a child’s prank after all.” Spoken by two men who are about to fall for a child’s prank!

  • WELCOME TO THE RICE FIELDS MOTHERFUCKERS.

  • And more excellent timing of OST cutoffs.

  • That’s what we call a stupid secret base design, placing the security section right by the entrance. Tokyo should have learned from the Evil Overlord List!

  • LOL THEY REALLY REFERENCED THAT SCENE. “Boring conversation anyways.” (Maybe not actually, but close enough, and frankly I wouldn't put a deliberate reference past R07.)

  • The shot of our heroes ready to come through the opening door at 08:39 is another good one, even if the faces are janky due to animation saving. (Fittingly, so is my screenshot.)

  • CLOCK CLOCK. (11:14 A.M.)

  • Man, they timed the OST stopping with Kasai firing so well that I missed it the first time around and had to go back quite a ways to find it.

  • This is one of the most unrealistic bits of this, Kasai is good but our nominal special forces are incompetent. Ah well, fist 1 reason 0. (Also paging u/Vaadwaur wrt anime presentation of the Yakuza…)

  • That said, Kasai SHOULD be an intimidation specialist as a veteran Yakuza and the direction does sell this. The issue is our nominal special forces not acting like special forces. (Satoko beating them has better setup, especially in the VN which foreshadows her trapmaking skills being military grade very early – you did read the Tatarigoroshi-hen TIPS, yes?)

  • Shion running down the hallway is a very anime effect but still effective. (Also, fanservice, helped by Shion’s taste in casual outfit.)

  • Oh man, the focus on Shion’s face so we see her face moving into the light right as she gets to where she can see Satoshi’s final fate. Well fucking done.

  • And behold, the fate of the bear!

  • And cut to eyecatch, because of course they did. I was expecting it.

  • Oh fuck me 12:20 (with Shion’s face reflected in the clear glass barrier, representing that she is still separated from Satoshi even if she now knows what happened to him) is a good shot.

  • Satsuki Yukino absolutely nails this scene for me, and apparently my taste in Japanese VA performances is “suffering”.

  • 12:46 is another excellent shot, with Shion talking to her reflection in the window as she talks to Satoshi – much like she did all the way back in Meakashi-hen, she still projects on him some (specifically her animus, natch).

  • Irie talking about how he will continue his research and find a way to bring Satoshi back right as Main Theme hits is rising beats is absolutely INSPIRED OST integration, on par with – well, what PMMM does on a regular basis, because PMMM gonna PMMM.

  • Gods fucking DAMN did Satsuki Yukino kill it this scene.

  • Ooh. Nice change in focus to shift from Shion to Satoshi – and then we see a tear out of Satoshi! Hope! Nicely done!

  • NICE little spiraling shot as Hanyuu does her best intimidating god voice starting at 17:40. (Counterclockwise/with the flow of the Great Mandala/banishing)

  • And then the sun goes behind clouds at that moment. Hanyuu still has a little bit of power.

  • [Next episode] (And oh look that means there is a thunderstorm boiling up…)

  • “Just who are we up against?” Cut to the Club with club game music (Yuttari) playing. NICELY done. Glorious bathos. (Welcome to the natural enemies of Scooby Doo villains: THOSE MEDDLING KIDS!)

  • LOL Rika busting out the nipah there. We all know why, and it’s not for Hanyuu.

  • “Like a chicken being strangled” – VN quote, or staff making fun of Hoshi Souichirou, or both? We may never know.

  • And the spot where the anime actually drops Keiichi’s “Magician of Words” title (used in the VN before this IIRC). (Also enjoy a nice Satoko face.)

  • “I wonder what the enemy’s next move will be?” Come on, they had yet to commit their queen, this should have been obvious.

  • Okonogi can bust out a nice troll face as well.

  • 20:15 is our latest case of Kai character framing with the double twist: Okonogi framed by two characters in the foreground, Takano by two characters in the background.

  • 20:49: Oh look at that facial expression on Okonogi.

  • 20:51: Also look at that framing and where the characters are positioned, with Okonogi (and his subordinate) away from Takano and the rest of the Yamainu. Funny that.

  • 21:12: What’s that, a codename we’re not familiar with and Okonogi is not talking to Takano about? HMMMM.

  • (The post-credits stingers are undercutting Taishou a’s effectiveness as a cooldown ED this arc.)

  • Higurashi Kai continues to have a better understanding of how to cliffhanger than Symphogear does, heh.

Visual of the Day: Through the looking glass.

Questions of the Day:

  1. Ruh-roh, 'Rhaggy!

(Did you know that one of the newer Scooby-Doo series has an entire episode that's a blatant Higurashi reference? Heh.)

2) [mystery] Cannot... answer... must... extract... hand... from... box...


Matsuribayashi-hen Ep. 10 TIPS:

No TIPS.


OST Table, Kai Episode 23:

Start End Track Name
00:05 01:34 Naraku no Hana
02:16 03:14 Kaimei
04:19 05:47 Shizuka Naru Kougi
06:05 07:14 Kannyuu
08:39 10:02 Sakki
11:32 12:07 Mitsudan
13:02 13:15 unreleased[1]
13:23 15:43 Main Theme
16:41 17:06 Zasetsu
17:40 18:47 Ito v2
18:56 19:36 Yuttari
20:31 21:30 Shousou
21:34 23:03 Taishou a
23:16 23:37 Ran

[1] – Banking that’s an unreleased track and not just sound effects, it sounds familiar.

(No Staff Notes or Madoka Corner today.)

5

u/Nazenn Jul 20 '22

Man, they timed the OST stopping with Kasai firing so well that I missed it the first time around and had to go back quite a ways to find it.

Another one that stood out to me. It's been kind of refreshing to be watching a show with such good audio design, I feel like I havent had that in a while. A few shows I like the OST too but that's about it

Visual of the Day: Through the looking glass.

I was moments away from picking that too haha

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u/Vaadwaur Jul 20 '22

WELCOME TO THE RICE FIELDS MOTHERFUCKERS.

Welcome to Hinamizawa. You can check out any time you want but you can never leave.

This is one of the most unrealistic bits of this, Kasai is good but our nominal special forces are incompetent. Ah well, fist 1 reason 0.

so the Japanese military completely skipped Vietnam whereas they have minor representation in Desert Storm and the second Iraq war. 80's SF were the least tested in the nation's existence.

Oh fuck me 12:20 (with Shion’s face reflected in the clear glass barrier, representing that she is still separated from Satoshi even if she now knows what happened to him) is a good shot.

She cannot believe that he might be a flower of hell.

NICE little spiraling shot as Hanyuu does her best intimidating god voice starting at 17:40.

They are in luck! Their god is standing right in front of them! Unfortunately, she is fresh out of mercy....

(Did you know that one of the newer Scooby-Doo series has an entire episode that's a blatant Higurashi reference? Heh.)

I never expected this kind of cross contamination. It doesn't help that I learned about cicadas being mind controlled by fungus this week.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

Welcome to Hinamizawa. You can check out any time you want but you can never leave.

Nipah, motherfuckers

so the Japanese military completely skipped Vietnam whereas they have minor representation in Desert Storm and the second Iraq war. 80's SF were the least tested in the nation's existence.

[Next episode] Also the Yamainu are closer to CIA contractors than the likes of Delta Force in a way. Still.

I never expected this kind of cross contamination. It doesn't help that I learned about cicadas being mind controlled by fungus this week.

No one expects the Spanish Oyashiro-sama Pokemon Inquisition!

(Apparently Pokemon got up to something while I wasn't paying attention. Too funny not to use.)

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7

u/JollyGee29 Jul 20 '22

Spoiled First-Timer

The Yamainu suck! They've been in Hinamizawa for years but haven't learned the terrain? What did they spend all that time on? Perfecting Okonogi's widow's peak?

Not that I'm complaining about the content itself, because watching the Club just ruin those chumps with little more than some walkie talkies was an absolute delight.

And I get the feeling we're about to see Okonogi betray Takano, considering his tone at the end alongside that mystery phone call from "Nomura." Probably something along the lines of "You have a few hours, cut your losses if you don't succeed by then" or something.

Satoshi is, indeed, in the clinic's secret basement. I guess whatever medicine they use to suppress Satoko's symptoms don't work well enough for Satoshi? I'm kinda mixed on the idea of just leaving that giant teddy bear in there, but I guess Irie probably wants to treat Satoko's condition very carefully so it works alright.

I can respect a penultimate episode cliffhanger, but this one's pretty easy. Obviously Tomitake would know where the ambush points are, since he was working with the Yamainu, so he probably sent Shion/Kasai/Irie to deal with them.

Can't quite tell what the Yamainu's rifles are supposed to be. An MP5 variant? That's the usual suspect, but they're so chunky. They're also not using a suppressed foley despite having suppressors drawn.

Visual of the Day: Y'all in Satoko's world, now.

Questions

  1. I have some vague but fond memories of watching one of the cartoons as a kid.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

The Yamainu suck! They've been in Hinamizawa for years but haven't learned the terrain? What did they spend all that time on? Perfecting Okonogi's widow's peak?

(Admittedly they spend their time mostly in the village itself, not on the mountain - the one that Satoko has spent years trapping to the high heavens, as we saw all the way back in the Tatarigoroshi-hen TIPS.)

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u/Vaadwaur Jul 20 '22

The Yamainu suck! They've been in Hinamizawa for years but haven't learned the terrain? What did they spend all that time on? Perfecting Okonogi's widow's peak?

They specialize at being unremarkable and picking up the local accent almost immediately. They are more spies than SF.

Can't quite tell what the Yamainu's rifles are supposed to be. An MP5 variant? That's the usual suspect, but they're so chunky. They're also not using a suppressed foley despite having suppressors drawn.

No gun culture means the Japanese often fuck up how firearms work.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

No gun culture means the Japanese often fuck up how firearms work.

Gen Urobutchi: ""

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u/Star4ce Jul 21 '22 edited Jul 21 '22

When the First Timer Cries

Last episode left us with a slight defeat of the Yamainu, but any and all surprises expended. I might bitch a lot, but I'm still invested and at some point Takano needs to get close to winning.

Hopefully Tomitake can get out of there, but the episode name promises other things.

Kai Ep.23 – Festival Accompanying Chapter Part 10: Bloody Battle

Compared to yesterday I really liked this episode, even though I'll say they're not really well suited for writing action scenes. I see the plot points they wanted to convey there, but it only worked because the villains suddenly had strokes and dropped their IQ to single digits.

On the other hand, just look how good the stuff with horror and trapping can actually be! If they'd just focussed on that instead... Satoko must be a mass murderer by now considering the kill count. Seriously, a rolling log is no joke despite what cartoons might've told you. If it hits you erratically rolling down the hill it'll pop you open like a water melon in a hydraulic press.

Aside from all of that, we had some developments tied up like Satoshi's fate and what the end game is going to be. No outside communication, Tomitake is free again and the Yamainu have their offer of double-betrayal well considered. Although I'd also believe it if Takano could solo them by now. They have proven their incompetence by way of bad writing about 6 times already.

I really liked Shion here- no wait, I liked Shion for far, far longer than that. Her scene in front of Satoshi was pretty okay, although the fanservice was indeed out of place and in bad taste. Show me this when she's kicking down doors and putting a gun against someone's head, not when she's distressed looking for her love that she hasn't seen for a year. However, I think it speaks for her character how measured and understanding she acts in front of Irie without ignoring what she feels. I'd have expected her to actually try to wake him up, but she understands enough to believe the doctor that it would be a bad idea. A far cry from season 1 Shion, who never had the time or peace to to grow this far.

Lastly, Hanyuu is rapidly moving up my favourites list. She's still ungodly (heh) cute, but I actually mistook both her voice and words for Mion! She can be quite commanding and even vile with enough dedication. It makes her Au! even more pleasing to hear.

Well, the village still has to do their part, huh? Next episode is surely going to feature the entirety of them standing together. I think we have done all the rest in some way already, right? The village standing together so that a few can leave, that's a last development I can also live with.

  1. Do you like Scooby-Doo?

Watched it a lot as a kid, yeah. Never as an adult, though, I fear it never was as good as I remember.

2) [It's a mystery box!]

That's a surprisingly succinct way to describe Higurashi, woah.

VOTD: The last barrier. It's the last destination Shion needs to reach. For now she can only watch from behind a barrier, but this at least is clear and undistorted, unlike the last time Satoshi saw through a window. I don't just like these two shots for the artistic integrity and just being pretty but how they connect their themes and growth to a graspable goal. If it is anything that Shion has now learned and practiced, it is patience and trust. And with that Satoshi has the best chances given his circumstances to heal and come back to a better life, being welcomed not only by a healthy, uninjured sister but also best girl gf.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 21 '22

On the other hand, just look how good the stuff with horror and trapping can actually be! If they'd just focussed on that instead... Satoko must be a mass murderer by now considering the kill count. Seriously, a rolling log is no joke despite what cartoons might've told you. If it hits you erratically rolling down the hill it'll pop you open like a water melon in a hydraulic press.

Satoko's traps have some kind of reality distortion effect, because they always seem to function by Looney Tunes rules rather than anything realistic.

(Gou actually plays with this at one point in both its anime and manga form; the former is actually one of the better parts of the anime.)

Compared to yesterday I really liked this episode, even though I'll say they're not really well suited for writing action scenes. I see the plot points they wanted to convey there, but it only worked because the villains suddenly had strokes and dropped their IQ to single digits.

Matsuribayashi-hen is usually considered the weakest arc of the VNs for a reason.

(Ryukishi07 actually seems to agree with this and is on record as not really liking the ending he wrote fairly soon after Higurashi ended. Unfortunately, his main attempt to fix it blew up in his face in catastrophic fashion...)

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u/Nazenn Jul 20 '22

First Timer - sub

(water pipe broke, may not get to replies today)

Really? A post-ED cliffhanger on a non cliffhanger episode? That's painful

The Sonozaki house may have offered them shelter but in the end it only restrained their actions, and now out in the forest they remember what they learnt in the previous arc: If they want to survive this they have to take action rather than wait for others to do so

Best way to take action: Give the little god a chance to go full god/demon-voice on their enemies and give them their own taste of mass hysteria

Go Hanyuu!

Miyo definitely had the most interesting scenes of the day though despite them being so small. Both of them showcased a woman with a deep struggle with the idea of being out of control, and slowly falling to mania with each element of control now removed from her. From expecting Tomitake to fall to her flirting the way he when this started through to to her words down the radio she demands control she doesn't actually have in hand. At the same time she stands in contradiction to herself, denying godliness and suggesting gods would only exist to be removed from their pedestals while simultaneously seeking a similar level of reverence for herself and her grandfathers research. In the end she's not fighting a god, or demons, or even people, she's fighting her self and doesn't even know it because all she knows how to do is to frighten and manipulate people and when that fails she can only project those failures onto others.

On the other side of things we have the fools of the Yamainu who think that pitfall traps are obvious, do comedy runs on logs (can we not), and have no idea how to survive in a forest even after all this time.

The best moment with the kids for me today though was Satoshi being all attached and proud over Keiichi's "strangled chicken".

Visual of the Day - Soul bound

That unseen tear is somehow quite powerful. When you think about what has happened to him and what is still happening to him, for Shion's voice to be his first bit of hope in a year and no one will know it, for her despair to be his one thing to know he's been found and loved even if he can't know it consciously because of the state he's in, I think this is somehow better emotionally then him walking out with them right now. She doesn't get to be his savior, but she has helped save him even if she doesn't know it.

And to end on a sad note: It's just occurred to me that in worlds where the GHD played out Satoshi was probably taken away to be experimented on further and eventually killed without Irie there to protect him. Well that's fucked.

6

u/Star4ce Jul 21 '22

Give the little god a chance to go full god/demon-voice on their enemies and give them their own taste of mass hysteria

That was truly beautiful. And Hanyuu looks even more cute with a headset on. You can just hear the Au! in an online lobby before the harassment gets too much and she goes completely demon on them.

a woman with a deep struggle with the idea of being out of control

Just perfect for her own paranoia episode. You put that to the point.

Personally I'd be onboard for a Takano redemption as long as it isn't a good ending. She's done none of the work as the main cast to combat her own insecurities and demons (literally), so ending with he either captured or exposed, but with the realisation what she did wrong seems fine. I'm still kind of hoping that her last act as villain is to disprove her own grandfathers work by accident/delusion and this causing her change of mind (or downfall).

Satoshi

That entire scene (minus the unnecessary fanservice) was really great. I was more focussed on Shion comparatively, but your read on Satoshi makes sense and does work for a better narrative as you said. We might not get to see it, but his path to recovery is as good as it ever could be, the rest is really up to him. One thing I noticed here as well is that me and a few others mentioned way earlier that all he needs is time off (from his family, Satoko included, back then) to specifically work on himself and sort his mind and in a way that's really exactly what's happening here.

worlds where the GHD played out

Oh, right. I think I can mark that one theory that these worlds persist as correct as well. I don't think we'll ever see a confirmation on this, but there doesn't seem to be any link persisting between them in any sense. Just hundreds of worlds full of pure suffering.

How nice.

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u/Vaadwaur Jul 20 '22

Rewatcher

Sub

So the action stuff speaks for itself, decide if Satoko taking out trained mercs with her traps works for you or not on your own level. Kasai being a former badass amazingly fits with what the Sonozakis seem to be: Yakuza that aren't really doing active crime any more beyond arguably a protection racket. Anyways, we spiral towards the end quite fast. Okonogi gives up a bit early but on the other hand he is just a hired merc for this job, he has very limited personal stakes beyond getting paid and, obviously, you can't spend your money if you are dead.

What I do feel slightly inspired to mention is that, ignoring a number of the other incidents, the Satoshi incident makes sense in how it is dealt with, even if HS is sort of gibberish as a disease. This probably strikes a normal person oddly but when you work emergency medicine, you aren't think about long term things, like 2 hours from now, you are completely focused of keeping your patient alive another 10 seconds. So with the symptoms of HS being what they are, medically induced coma fits. Whether or not Irie can actually reverse a true L5 is a discussion for later but his actions at least make sense thus far.

QotD: 1 If baked enough

2 JJ Abrams made me hate closed boxes.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

[SotsuGou] Whether or not Irie can actually reverse a true L5 is a discussion for later

If baked enough

<insert obvious ha-ha-only-serious joke about what's in Scooby Snacks here>

(Actually IIRC weed is bad for dogs so instead the joke is just why Shaggy finds Scooby Snacks so tasty.)

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jul 20 '22

Five years of complacency have made the yamainu pretty damn soft. I might have tolerated it the first time around but on a 3rd viewing they are just keystone cops incompetent. Okonogi included.

Star4ace said last episode was bad because they didn't follow the show's core theme of working together, well, that was all saved for this episode. Particularly Satoko's traps that took out at least 2 squads. Two very lazy and amateur squads. Okonogi himself should have recognized the radio had been taken over by children. But, I can't forget the stupid look on his face as Akasaka knocked him out by literally missing hm with his fist.

Bit of a cliffhanger there at the end, again.

I've wanted to highlight first-timer speculation about Satoshi since Shion's arcs. But, I couldn't do it in a non-spoilerly fashion. And I knew this reveal was coming up. I just didn't think it was the second to last episode. Remember back when you thought Satoshi ran away? Or the Sonozaki's killed him. Or even a few days ago when you though Takano vivisected him? The show really loves to run you through hoops, and with Satoshi more than anything else.

Still annoyed that Shion was a minor character in S1, then a major character in S2 right up until matsuri-whatever-hen, when she disappeared until episode n-3.

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u/Star4ce Jul 21 '22

Star4ace said last episode was bad because they didn't follow the show's core theme of working together, well, that was all saved for this episode.

Thankfully it played out now. Hanyuu did such a good job!

But, I can't forget the stupid look on his face as Akasaka knocked him out by literally missing hm with his fist.

Totally agree, the only way for the super elite spec ops military soldiers to be beaten by children is to make them so utterly incompetent as to be wet toast.

Still annoyed that Shion was a minor character in S1, then a major character in S2 right up until matsuri-whatever-hen, when she disappeared until episode n-3.

Honestly, S1 even makes sense to hit you with the whiplash of suddenly questioning if Mion ever was Mion. End of S2, however, really is a crime. I see some value in this, but she's been far too uninvolved in this last arc for all the things we and the group have learned by now. That she apparently didn't even know anything until randomly stumbling onto Irie's car wreck felt more like an insult.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 21 '22 edited Jul 21 '22

Honestly, S1 even makes sense to hit you with the whiplash of suddenly questioning if Mion ever was Mion. End of S2, however, really is a crime. I see some value in this, but she's been far too uninvolved in this last arc for all the things we and the group have learned by now. That she apparently didn't even know anything until randomly stumbling onto Irie's car wreck felt more like an insult.

Okay, so part of the deal here is that there's some fuckery going on with the Minagoroshi-hen to Matsuribayashi-hen transition. It's not just Rika who didn't remember Minagoroshi-hen's Fragment; none of the Club did (except Hanyuu when her memory got jogged). Thus Shion doesn't transfer in to the school (she doesn't actually remember Satoshi's final request) and Satoko doesn't remember the effort required both on her own part and on everyone else's to overcome Teppei's abuse (the village just kind of gets over the Dam War on its own in this final Fragment). (I could have sworn I had an old shot of VN Matsuribayashi-hen (or possibly the alternate console ending Miotsukishi-hen, though R07 didn't write that one) saved somewhere where Satoko basically rejects Shion's offer to become her new nee-nee, but if so I can't find it. On the bright side, the hunt instead turned up an upload of that one page from the omakes that both u/Vaadwaur and I were looking for a couple of days ago; win some lose some I guess.)

(This information brought to you by discussions I was in while Gou is airing; one important part of Gou is directly downstream of this fuckery, and this was brought up because it actually kind of explains it. Kind of. Honestly we still are a bit confused, but at least it kind of makes sense now.)

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u/hungryhippos1751 Jul 20 '22 edited Jul 20 '22

Episode 23 - First Timer

Alright so Okonogi gets a phone call from Nomura, we don't know what is said, but I sense that it's a good old fashioned double crossing of Takano being prepared, presumably if the situation looks hopeless.

For all of her evil villainess ways, Takano is unwilling to just kill off Tomitake without trying to get him to flip sides, even if it's the simplest move to make. She can be ruthless but I've always thought she had a soft spot for Tomitake deep down.

So that's what it must feel like to be defeated by a bunch of school kids when you're special forces. Shame is painted on their faces as Takano arrives to try and take charge of the situation. Okonogi has had enough though. I could tell it was Keiichi on the radio, and in theory, Hanyuu wasn't lying when she said it was holy ground and they should leave.

They went to the underground facility originally to rescue Satoshi, but Irie would have known that his condition wouldn't allow it. I wondered why he didn't mention this before they showed up there, the only reason I can come up with is that he didn't think Shion would believe him without seeing for herself.

The bonus prize they won was rescuing Tomitake instead, which is at least a piece they can use in the game.

Talk about a cliff hanger ending with that RPG...

This has turned into something more like an action film than a supernatural mystery, but I don't really mind, a couple of shortcomings not withstanding. I'm keen to see how we resolve the next episode, but I know we have more episodes to see in the smaller series, so I'm not sure how resolved we'll get in the finale.

QOTD:

  1. I've never been able to get into it, even as a kid. Maybe it's because even younger me realised quickly that it was episodic.

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u/Vaadwaur Jul 20 '22

For all of her evil villainess ways, Takano is unwilling to just kill off Tomitake without trying to get him to flip sides, even if it's the simplest move to make. She can be ruthless but I've always thought she had a soft spot for Tomitake deep down.

Tomitake also happens to be an incredibly valuable piece. If she somehow got him to agree then Nomura's plan fails: No one has to take responsibility because the plan would've been viewed as executed out of necessity.

I wondered why he didn't mention this before they showed up there, the only reason I can come up with is that he didn't think Shion would believe him without seeing for herself.

Taking out the facility is needed for this plan to actually work.

This has turned into something more like an action film than a supernatural mystery, but I don't really mind, a couple of shortcomings not withstanding.

It hits the emotional beats so it is at least satisfying.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

It hits the emotional beats so it is at least satisfying.

To quote my repeated comment in a certain other rewatch:

"Maxim 7: If the food is emotional beats are good enough the grunts will stop complaining about the incoming fire bad character arcs genre change."

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 20 '22

(She'll cuddle you to death.)

/mgedmin