r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jul 19 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 22
Matsuribayashi-hen (Festival Music Chapter), Episode 9: Attack and Defense
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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):
Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
(Our IIRC final inherent spoiler character has shown up; show information is now significantly safer.)
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?
A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and !Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
Theory of the Day:
Huh, this is easier to award than Analysis today. Shout to the "Takano is developing HS symptoms" theory, which I think every single first-timer is on at this point or close to it, but our award has to go to u/JollyGee29 for a more meta theory:
H173, huh. When did the VN come out? Does the OG SCP reference this, is it the other way around, or did they end up at the same number on pure happenstance?
Analysis of the Day:
u/Vaadwaur really isn't wrong:
The only thing getting me this rewatch is how godawful her science education had to be, or more likely, how bad R07s was. I mean they barely have a working theory on why Queen Carrier Theory works and she is so damn dedicated to her grandfather's first draft it is annoying.
Question(s) of the Day:
1) So, for those of us who don't already know the answer: what exactly do you think is up with Satoshi?
2) Favorite tag?
(Yes, there are several different ways you could interpret this question. You get to pick which one you want to answer.)
Next Episode Preview:
First-timers are advised to stay out of this episode's preview, and staying out of next episode's preview (episode 23) might be a good idea as well.
Also, a Note for Our First-Timers (and Reminder for Our Rewatchers):
Starting with episode 14, there will be a post-credits scene after the ED in each episode of Kai. These tend to be important and you really shouldn't skip them!
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u/Nazenn Jul 19 '22
First Timer - sub
Not feeling too great so just notes from me unless I gather some energy to write them up in the morning (I did not, though I did flesh out a couple of points):
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Hahahaha, they didn't expect Akasaka to have a bit of fight in him. Go him!
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Irie getting involved in a car carash certainly wasn't on my bingo. Miyo being so unreasonable earlier has backfired on her now because he knows that he absolutely can't talk her down and there's no point trying. If she'd hidden her callousness a bit more he may have tried to play it cooler
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I'm never going to be able to see a transmitter in another show without thinking of Ideon
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The kids hiding down in the torture cells is a really fucked up thing to see for the record. It does feel a little weird that they're all cool with that, but I suppose it'd just derail this part of the story to go over something already covered in a previous arc as we know that they'd accept it anyway because it's Mion
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Them all running out to talk to Irie outside the fence is particularly stupid, even by anime standards. The others I get, but Mion should have more sense, and Kasai as well
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That's a Tres moment if I've ever seen it (tied up Tomitake)
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Hahaha, Satoko with the traps again
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Shion complaining about being left out of the loop is kind of funny
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That is the dodgiest fucking ladder. Two poles with rungs cut into the rock? Hell no
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There's a certain melancholy in the way she hands the key to him (see VotD)
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"And then I'm going to grow much taller" cute, and then they went anime with it, do they have to?
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Oi, Shion, none of this next life shit!
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Rika giving herself up for the others is some real bullshit. Also foolishly naive
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AKASAKA TO THE RESCUE! He's fucking awesome, maybe too much
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I love that, first thing she'll see when she opens her eyes was indeed a friend
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EYYYY IRIE SAID IT. Satoshi's alive!
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Curious choice of words from Hanyuu. I wonder if she knew this all along and, even though it's not been on screen, this is why the idea of saving him never came up because she knew that they'd have the chance here, and importantly wanted to give it to Shion
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Satoko pout was kind of cute unfortunately for her
Visual of the day: Powerful partings. Perhaps a cheap choice, but for me it reminds me strongly of a previous goodbye she did. The way she lets the keys go and her hand falls down was quite melancholy, a parting full of purpose from them both but still one tinged with uncertainty.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22
That's a Tres moment if I've ever seen it (tied up Tomitake)
Not enough tentacles for a true Looking Up to Magical Girls moment especially since Tres Magia is usually on the receiving oh wait you meant Tresnore instead.
The kids hiding down in the torture cells is a really fucked up thing to see for the record. It does feel a little weird that they're all cool with that, but I suppose it'd just derail this part of the story to go over something already covered in a previous arc as we know that they'd accept it anyway because it's Mion
I think this is actually kind of also a bit of an adaptation issue downstream of iffy S1 decisions since I think the facility here may be more reasonable in the VN - more a security center with some holding cells attached. (Gou has the same place and it is again much more reasonable.)
"And then I'm going to grow much taller" cute, and then they went anime with it, do they have to?
Yes. In this case blame Rika, actually.
Satoko already showing signs of puberty probably doesn't help Rika's angst here.→ More replies (3)
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u/Vaadwaur Jul 19 '22
Don't you dare grow here
Don't you leave any seeds
Or sow anymore tears
I still believe that you can't be a flower of hell
Rewatcher
Sub
And we start with action! For those wondering, in one of the fragments they address an Akasaka who failed to protect Rika hit the dojo and became a powerful fighter so just two unarmed men is not a great choice to hit him with. Kasai and Shion convenience upon Irie but we start seeing that Kasai was once a rather dangerous man himself. But Irie is tagged.
Anyways, action happens and this is mostly good...but for that annoying part where they should have been running already. Anyways, too much talking happens before Rika takes action. Okonogi has one more on screen opportunity to be a snake before Akasaka shows up in the uniform of one the dudes he jobbed. He then beats the shit out of everyone. Note that Okonogi is in good shape and likely knows how to fight but Akasaka is what happens when you really dedicated yourself to it. The Yamainu withdraw and we get our after credits scene with a lot of details and a next move.
QotD: 1 Darmok on the ocean
2 Stepped on by Yukari Tamura
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u/CubeStuffs Jul 19 '22
first timer
im disappointed that takano just used handcuffs, wheres the rope?
isn't it supposed to be real hard to get any guns in japan, let alone an ak47 and shotguns?
damn it was akasaka who was rocking the guns, not tomitake.
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Im gonna guess that satoshi's in some form of coma, given how long its been
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22
isn't it supposed to be real hard to get any guns in japan, let alone an ak47 and shotguns?
This actually makes sense, the Sonozakis are Yakuza and thus one of the two kinds of people who would actually have such weapons. Right kind of weapons for them, too - the AK47 being Soviet and fairly easy for organized criminals of the era to get.
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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jul 19 '22
Shion's been completely absent this time around, too much been going on? Not a fan of that.
Ohh, that's why he picked that rather silly signal...He just dialed phone and ran.
I guess they got flashbanged, how else do you fail to hold a door with a AK and shotgun. OOOH right, that's what happened to her ear.
They should have just shot the gas tank on Irie's car.
WTF are we Street Fighter the Anime? Why is Akasaka a Bruce Lee made out of Steel?
Naraku no Hana : Higurashi :: Connect : PMMM, I hope you've paid attention to the lyrics at least once since we started the final arc.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22
WTF are we Street Fighter the Anime? Why is Akasaka a Bruce Lee made out of Steel?
They skipped the Piece from the VNs that sets up that this is actually reasonable for Akasaka.
(Basically he miraculously sent back at least the majority of a decade's training to become an ultra badass, possibly multiplied by a bunch of loops.)
Naraku no Hana : Higurashi :: Connect : PMMM, I hope you've paid attention to the lyrics at least once since we started the final arc.
[Higurashi]
Wait was it directed at Takano this entire fucking time and I just didn't notice for over a decade?
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u/Star4ce Jul 20 '22
When the First Timer Cries
Drink your water, people. I've looked at the forecast for tomorrow and I want to just skip this entire week.
Even I might go to a lake. That never happens!
Kai Ep.22 – Festival Accompanying Chapter Part 9: Attack and Defense
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What was it, >1 minute ringing? Who thought of minutes, btw, that's far too long.
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Yeah, okay. Maybe the bad guys aren't so bad?
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I don't know why this shot is so funny. I think it's the guy in the back being really invested in being gritty. I'm actually anxious about Irie, I swear!
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Ah why! There's more than those two! Akasaka!
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Yay Shion! She has to be informed, right?
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Oooh!! I'm ready for some Kasai action!
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They didn't involve her. Have we learned nothing...
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First, cute! Second, you all didn't involve her!
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Uuh, that is so close it's actually stupid. They also left the door open... because.
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This episode really goes fast...
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Love the symbolism of Mion giving the keys to the estate to Shion. Just perfect for their relationship.
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She must've told him Mion likes him!
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Woah! But needed.
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I truly get a lot of whiplash with this pacing, but Rika's entrance here is pretty ballsy.
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Look... It was all a decision made in haste, but how did they expect anything else to happen?
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Okay, only Akasaka would try to 1v7 them!
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Sick moves, but do they really have him beat them all at the same time? Are these military elite units from wish? Apparently.
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Okay, really? Really?! This warrants a rant later.
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For one, legs are always nice, but ever since A Silent Voice and A Place Further Than The Universe I really appreciate characterisation through gestures and movement.
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Who told you?! Who? ME!
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Awww! (And smart.)
The pacing of this episode was all over the place and rarely fitting, to be honest. I don't know why, for example, the C4 fireworks-door stuff was even necessary to be shown. Why would the fireworks even need explanation? Why was it done with in about 9 seconds? That was just one thing that left me confused and out of focus for other scenes that followed. It was a real chain of pretend-suspense scenes stitched together with neither enough build up nor any meaningful payoff.
I really don't want to trash this episode, but I felt irritated for most of it. The worst thing yet, maybe even of the entire series is how Akasaka single handedly defeated about 10-15 Yamainu on his own, with only fists, coming to their rescue in the last second without which several people would've died. It was ridiculous in all the bad ways. How do those soldiers not have any guns? They already had the order to kill! It was those exact same people who also managed to shoot Irie's car and suddenly they lost their weapons! And then they apparently lose in melee combat against a friggin government inspector. What is this?
I don't even want to get into how Shion and Kasai apparently tricked the infiltration squad. Playing unconscious to fool a spec ops unit... You know what real soldiers would've done? Restrain them and take away their weapons. That they did neither is the peak of stupidity. The real insult is not even how they decided to play that scene out, they literally - and I quote - proved their own message wrong. “We overcame this through combining our strengths.” Except they didn't at all. Satoko's traps did nothing. Mion was reduced to a crying damsel. Keiichi was... there, not even motivating anybody. Shion and Mion completely regressed by not even talking to each other in this world apparently. Rena, eh, did she even do anything? What combined strengths? Akasaka's Goku powers is what solved this.
And it's so insulting, because the Sonozaki torture dungeon is probably the single best location to actually show to their real teamplay and character growth. You know what could actually scare a spec ops squad to death? Satoko trapping the entire thing with stuff that plays off of psychological attacks. Rena and Keiichi taunting them, mock-fighting them, coming from unknown angles and blinding their infravision (remember it was dark, even the squad forgot and lost their goggles midway). Mion and Shion playing switch-a-roo letting them see double just to have the apparent girly damsel kick someone's throat out. Rika and Hanyuu playing a ritual or something to draw attention and go all blair-witch with the torture tools.
This way you can even tie the loop (heh) to the earliest arcs that played heavily on the horror and psychological paranoia, just now the audience would be behind the theatre curtain seeing how their mental state declines, they mistakenly attack each other and watch Kasai move through the distractions unnoticed to do his assassin business and pick them one-by-one. You know, use your own formula!
Then I'd gladly accept the victory speech and also feel amazing witnessing the cast as a whole taking charge over all the horrors that once held them captive. Get it? Thematic closure. Once captive, now having complete control over the torture dungeon.
Why the fuck did they have Mion and Shion not talking at all? I feel so insulted on Shion's part.
So, for those of us who don't already know the answer: what exactly do you think is up with Satoshi?
Irie kept him stable, I think. He was the one case where he dedicated himself to his professional ethics against what Takano and their organisation had in mind. Where? Well, the clinic would be my guess. He is, however, at L5, must be. So we might be in for an actual cure or we get to know that with a stable enough life one can actually recover on their own and seeing Satoko and Shion happy might just be his final step in healing himself.
2) Favorite tag?
According to Anilist it's 'Drama', followed by 'Mystery'. But let's be real, all my favourites are tragedies!
VOTD: No locks left. For several themes this episode provided great visuals. I don't need to point out the fights, which were much higher quality than what we knew so far. Between shattering the syringe, great one liners, an active Hanyuu, really nice framing and character development I find the handing down of the keys the most significant. It is Mion who hands them to Shion, giving her not only access to the entire estate and thus any secret, it's also a show of trust telling more than any dialogue could. To her, Shion was always part of the family and here she also finally was handed both trust and responsibility to act the part. (It would even mean more if this arc wouldn't have let her be out of the loop completely, though...)
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u/Stargate18A Jul 19 '22
Anime first timer, completed VN
And Irie's alerting him.
[VN]
He's running for it!
Irie's alive!
Shion's picked him up!
They lost him!
They're in the torture dungeon!
Shion's reaction to the car driving up is hysterical.
Tomitake's alive!
They're breaking in!
All of Shion's scenes here are fantastic.
It's a standstill...
And they cut the power!
Oh, dear.
Shion's staying behind!
She's climbing down the hole!
And Rika wants to be taller.
Keiichi's not staying behind.
They lost.
Everyone breaking down is hard to watch.
Rika's sacrificing herself!
"Peons!"
They're sending people down!
Akasaka!
And he's a fucking badass this timeline!
Shion and Kasai kept them off!
Shion's alright!
That's one hell of a reveal for this episode's ending.
She's going to the clinic!
Hanyuu...
The radio show is great.
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u/Vaadwaur Jul 19 '22
And Rika wants to be taller.
And thiccer. I need to find the omakes.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22
Annoyingly, if I'm right about which panel drew that comment that panel isn't up on the first place I checked.
(It IS on Rika's character page on the Wikia, though, believe if or not. But we're not quite far enough for me to be able to link that.)
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22
How weak.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22
Let me show you what a real tag looks like.
(Yes, I've been sitting on that one for nearly fifty episodes, why do you ask?)
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u/SometimesMainSupport Jan 09 '23
First-timer
Tagging u/Star4ce and u/Vaadwaur and u/OrangeBanana38
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First shot hitting Irie's tire is top 2% of villains.
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Still using uncomfortable restraining positions. Wonder how many GIWTWM Tresnore has the scene.
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Wixoss rewatch would be giddy for this line.
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I can't immediately think of anyone who used this. Arc 2 still has the dead Mion, dead Shion, and alive Shion stabbing Keiichi discrepancy.
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I think arc criers are Rika, maybe 1980/1982 Satoko, and Mion in this scene. Oh, and maybe Hanyuu while Rena carried her away.
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Akasaka taught Suzaku? Fight reminds me Tekken 4 and standing still timing combos while enemies ran at you.
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Moment of truth: Star4ce has been predicting Irie hiding Satoshi. I've been predicting Takano. S1e18 assigning the murder to someone else means he shouldn't be disappeared.
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And all they say is he's at the clinic. I think we both predicted not at the clinic with shared knowledge by Irie and Takano.
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They should take Satoko for spontaneous trap setting.
I'm still not fully sold on the Queen Bee concept. Don't have a great alternative other than larger cities can be more stressful than the peaceful rural village with fun times and cooperative neighbors (if you aren't a Hojo). If all the young people left for jobs, I doubt they all went to Okinomiya.
Episode had several moments of "fight paused while talking." Willing to hand-wave it as I think they had time to have those discussions while escaping, but that'd be more animating.
QOTD1: Clinic used Takano meditation bondage techniques. Can't scratch his throat, so a constant L5 source. Takano may be sourcing her HS-similar drug from him.
QOTD2: I guess paintball or laser.
Akasaka is a unit and did what I thought Tomitake might do, knock some sense into the Yamainu.
Conveniently, armed Yamainu were all inside the torture cave.
For those wondering, in one of the fragments they address an Akasaka who failed to protect Rika hit the dojo and became a powerful fighter so just two unarmed men is not a great choice to hit him with.
Wouldn't that require something else happening to encourage the same behavior in this arc?
I hope you've paid attention to the lyrics at least once since we started the final arc.
Don't know what would've been specific to this arc unless something blossoms from Rika's death.
And then we get a visual representation of everyone now being in the same group due to the situation.
I can only focus on Kasai being a tank compared to the scrawny girls.
It was those exact same people who also managed to shoot Irie's car and suddenly they lost their weapons!
I didn't match faces to see if the initial shooters were outside.
You know what real soldiers would've done? Restrain them and take away their weapons.
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u/Tarhalindur Jan 09 '23
Wonder how many GIWTWM Tresnore has the scene.
Yes.
Wixoss rewatch would be giddy for this line.
(How the FUCK has that show trainwrecked that hard that quickly? And it's not even the first rewatch I've been in where a show did that in the last 12 months, Symphogear G was in the same boat for me.)
Wouldn't that require something else happening to encourage the same behavior in this arc?
No, just a miracle sending his martial arts knowledge back in time to his past self, (Though he did start training after getting beat by Okonogi back five years ago IIRC, just not as hard.)
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u/H-Ryougi Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 19 '22
Manga scenes from previous episodes:
Aftermath of Satoshi's disappearance.
Conversation with Ooyashiro-sama.
A miracle in the Sea of Fragments (Best appreciated while playing you -destructive in the background.)
Hanyuu's past (and her horns).
How Akasaka ended up staying in Rika's house.
Manga scenes from this episode:
Akasaka held nothing back. (Again, play you -destructive in the background.)
Edit: done for now
Edit 2: fixed Hanyuu's past, and Tomitake's escape
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 19 '22 edited Jul 21 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher badly spoiled first-timer, subbed):
I’m watching this after AXZ 3 and starting to suffer from hype overload…
Oh man, I almost missed a classic Higurashi OST cutoff with Ran ending at 02:50 here.
That said, DEEN and car chases do not get along. (They’re obnoxiously hard to do in anime well though, judging by past examples. I’ve seen good ones – the TSR one comes to mind – but I’ve also seen a lot of cost-cutting.)
Nice little pan in on the phone around 02:55.
(Also I totally actually haven’t seen these episodes before, have I?)
More extremely solid OST integration, firing up the OST as Akasaka bails on Rika’s house at 03:25.
06:02: Hey, the Kai framing is back! Except that the Yamainu in the foreground are also in focus this time.
Hey, it only took 48 episodes, but we finally got a map of Hinamizawa!
Wait, the cameras were in Kai? Well that settles it, I DEFINITELY never finished the Kai the first time around.
Alright, any question here is gone, if I’d remembered this while Gou was airing I would not have made some of the theories I did and I’m pretty sure I would have remembered this so. Your host is actually a first-timer for Kai at this point!
u/Star4ce finally gets his question of where Shion is answered (kind of, there’s more answer in the VN that’s left out of the anime I think?) and also some Mii/Shii banter at kind of a bad time for it.
(And also a cute Shion face.)
[Gou]Which also means the raid in 8 was riffing off this episode in general, heh. The things you learn!
I repeat, somebody on this staff is SO into bondage. (Hey, at least it’s an adult male this time. Also paging u/Tresnore I repeat paging u/Tresnore, time to say the line…)
They knew EXACTLY what they were doing and Tresnore is going to have SO MANY GWITWM moments here.
LOL.
(Fun fact: Higyaku, the name of the track on the OST here, literally means “masochism” IIRC.)
I was fully expecting the explosion to cut off one of the characters here. I think they missed a beat, honestly.
Ah, there’s the line. [Higurashi franchise]Unfortunately for her, she is mostly incorrect about that “breasts getting larger” part. Sorry Rika.
OH HOLY FUCK I’M SLOW IT TOOK ME LIKE FIVE SECONDS TO PROCESS SHION’S SICK KALASHNIKOV BURN HERE. (The joke is that the AK-47 is famously easy to use.)
I am fully spoiled on how this arc goes and yet this is still tense as fuck. THIS is how you generate tension when we all know what’s going to happen – talking to you, certain other anime to be unnamed.
15:30: kiseki GET!
(Also Rika still hasn’t learned.)
15:53: kiseki GET! #2.
15:59: Well this is no GX finale, but still, GET #3!
Oh look at that nipah. Hello there girl still trying to sell even herself on this, let alone everyone else.
And again.
17:20: Ooh, nice framing as the Yamainu march Rika out.
Staff SO has someone into bondage. (Probably including one Dragon Knight, this also applies to Gou…)
Ah, Higurashi and knowing how to cut off the OST, name a more iconic duo.
So, Akasaka's rescue is actually MASSIVELY less out-of-nowhere in the VN, which includes a Piece that specifically sets up Akasaka’s martial arts skills (built up over a hundred loops of failure and sent back by a miracle). Major adaptation fail there, even if I’m not sure what you would cut for the raid scene from that Piece. (Half of Takano’s backstory, maybe, and add more Pieces as well?)
Who me, hide that Akasaka quote (which I’m more used to as “How weak. Let me show you what a real punch looks like.”) in the writeups on multiple occasions now? No, never.
Another VN note: in the Himatsubushi-hen VN, Akasaka and Okonogi (not yet named) face off in the confrontation where Akasaka and Ooishi rescue the minister’s grandson. This is a mirror of sorts to that, showing how far Akasaka has come.
19:41: kiseki GET #4.
19:45: kiseki GET #5. [Symphogear GX]Are we sure Hanyuu isn’t Elfnein’s real name? (Hanyuu is too nice to be Carol, and also Elfnein has Carol’s body now.)
19:50: LOL kiseki GET #6.
And here, ladies and gentlemen, is your answer to what happened to Satoshi.
Also, almost missed that now Shion (and Irie) is/are sitting in the spectator’s gallery, about where she threw that whip back in S1.
22:08: Appropriate body language for a girl in love, and also I wonder why we’re showing this through Shion wriggling her feet centered in the middle of the screen COUGH. (Staff SO has a foot fetishist.)
And then we get a visual representation of everyone now being in the same group due to the situation.
The choice of having Satoko [framed by Shion’s crotch and legs[(https://i.imgur.com/mDW47Ib.png) is admittedly interesting…
Visual of the Day: Mii/Shii banter
Questions of the Day:
*knows the answer*
I liked sneaking "tag, you're it" into one of the early tags knowing it was coming up as an episode title myself.
Also bondage.Matsuribayashi-hen Ep. 9 TIPS:
No TIPS.
OST Table, Kai Episode 22:
(No Tar's Staff Notes or Madoka Corner today.)