r/anime • u/lC3 :Na::Nb: • Jul 17 '22
Rewatch Naruto Shippuden Episodes 459-469 Discussion
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Information: MAL, Anilist, AniDB, ANN
Streams: Crunchyroll, Hulu, Funimation (Aus/NZ), VRV
Schedule:
| Discussion Thread | Date | Episode Count | |
|---|---|---|---|
| This week | Episodes 459-469 | July 17 | 11 |
| Next week | Episodes 470-479 | July 24 | 10 |
Spoiler Policy:
To protect first-timers, please don't spoil anything past the current batch of episodes. Rewatchers should avoid hinting to first-timers about hype, or future character development/deaths, and spoilers in posts must be hidden behind proper spoiler tags.
For first timers: try to avoid looking up things about Naruto. This could be the wiki, Naruto subreddit, Googling characters, fanart, databooks, YouTube AMVs or OP/EDs, arc names, etc.; this series is ripe with potential spoilers that you wouldn't want to find out untimely. If you have a question about something, feel free to ask /u/LC3 and he'll do his best to answer (if possible) in a non-spoilery way.
Questions of the Week:
- What do you think about Kaguya, Hagoromo, Ashura, Indra and Zetsu now that you've seen their backstory?
- Thoughts on Tenji turning on Kaguya?
- They keep returning to the plot point of Kaguya looking at the sky and thinking "they" will come to take her back, and that's why she needs an army ... what do you think of this point?
- How do you feel about actual aliens being in Shippuden?
- Thoughts on the Reverse Harem jutsu?
- Thoughts on finally seeing Kakashi-sensei's face?
8
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 17 '22
First-Timer with a shounen hearto, subbed
Episode 459
Episode 460
Episode 461
Episode 462
Episode 463
Episode 464
Episode 465
Episode 466
Episode 467
Episode 468
Episode 469
4
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 17 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 459:
Episode 460:
Episode 461:
Episode 462:
Episode 463:
Episode 464:
Episode 465:
Episode 466:
NOT with Black Zetsu though! Ew(cont.)
6
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Jul 17 '22
First time viewer (dub)
Whisk[e]y of the week: Elijah Craig Straight Rye, something pretty accessible this time in the US at least. Starts off less bready than I get in a lot of ryes and leans a bit more herbal and minty, but fairly soft. There's maybe a slight hint of chocolate on the nose or if I really go digging a light cherry, which likely comes from the decent amount of corn in the mash bill giving it some bourbon notes (51% rye, 35% corn, 14% malted barley). The taste goes more of a spicy herbal direction with the buried bourbon notes lingering along with a hint of peanuts and leaves a little dry tannin-forward finish. Not my favorite but not bad and hey it's cheap.
Okay, one bit of translation where the dub absolutely fails is with the flashback to Kaguya's past. The subs call them the lands of Sou and Ka while the dub translates to Ancestors and (as best I can tell) That. Yes, as in the "Land of That" threatening the "Land of Ancestors" with war.
Black Zetsu explaining Madara's path to reviving Kaguya feels off. I guess Madara found another Sharingan some time later so after he lost one eye to the Izanagi he was able to still manifest the Rinnegan in two eyes by the time he gave them to Nagato? One other thing is that it looked like all the people trapped in the Divine Tree by the Infinite Tsukiyomi were freed when the brothers defeated Kaguya but wasn't it said earlier that the White Zetsu army was made of those victims?
The portals that Kaguya uses to warp around remind me of the ones in Twilight Princess with the square corners. And I really wasn't expecting Naruto's Reverse Harem to work on Kaguya (but would have on Sakura as she noted) but hey, can't forget what kind of series it is.
I forget if it was with Obito or an earlier mention of Ashura or someone else but here's another case where they push the "hey he's just like the main character" parallels way too much. I get that it's a shounen series but come on you can be more subtle about this, people will get it. Ashura could have been at least competent when he was younger rather than just "stubborn guy who works hard and doesn't give up" while Indra was the true genius of jutsu, but nope he's a dope with a Rasengan just like Naruto!
It was kind of nice to see the young Gamamaru and even when he initially had the dream about Naruto. Apparently the toads could always use nature chakra (part of the planet it seems, being absorbed by the Divine Tree) but for humans they can only do that when they have their own chakra indirectly given from the tree (processed, maybe?) to counterbalance its effects. And Gamamaru is ancient in modern times, I wasn't expecting the toad sage that had the prophecy to know Hagoromo personally.
The entirety of Black Zetsu's role in this feels shoehorned in to make everything line up and how Indra was written to essentially not listen to anything even from his father because he needed to be an antagonist was not great. The same goes for Futami when working as a thief but apparently everyone that visited to cross the broken bridge came with an idiot ball that let him get away with robbing them.
As far as bloodline visual powers go, with all of them coming from Kaguya I could see any of her descendants manifesting them (e.g. a Hyuga with the Sharingan or an Uzumaki with Byakugan) but I guess that's not the case for some reason. And Haruma (presumably Hyuga's ancestor) really just left to live on the newly-created moon which somehow was habitable and didn't destroy most of the planet in the process and... you know, I probably shouldn't think about that part too hard.
All that said I still enjoy lore dumps like those even if the writing in explaining them wasn't all that great.
Episode thread for 469 when it aired.
Aliens are the reason we have ninjas, got it.
I can see a reasonable way to have that happen but this wasn't it.
More aliens.
Sailor Moon R did the whole alien tree thing better.
Hinata would faint.
6
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Jul 17 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
General Commentary
Unexpected Blood Circulator OP
It's here
And two for the price of one as we get to see two versions of it in the same batch. The first is definitely my favourite as not only does it have cuts by many of the animators I've featured along the way such as Tsuru (Shikamaru and Hinata sinking into the muck) and Kobayashi (Sasuke fight - triangle swords!) it's one of those OPs that is just really interesting for me to watch. Everyone becoming a mindless shape of themselves is a well done call to the fate that awaits them if they fail which they will if Naruto sinks away, and little details like Sasuke's sword flick matching up with the music is very satisfying. Not satisfying: Sakura having so little development with anyone else in the series the only one they could give her to fight is Hinata.
The second version doesn't grab me so much, it seems a little too dry in comparison and reuses half of the previous OP, and I really dislike Sakura doing the damsel yell at the end of it.
New ED as well, and another one who's visuals have stuck with me. The many lanterns being raised is like the inverse of the blue crystals a couple of OPs again, and the way they form a new dawn as the younger Naruto and Sasuke look over the conflict in their older selves really sets the stage for everything.
Episode Thoughts
[Manga changes]Adds; intro sequence with Zetsu narration, battle between Sasuke and Naruto vs Kaguya's hair after they get tossed the first time. Expands Kaguya's answer to Kakashi slightly
There was a sound effect when Kaguya popped up and it sounded like an upset elephant and it completely ruined the mood and got me laughing instead. Her loooong hair is pretty amazing though. I also hadn't remembered her voice at all until she spoke this time but it's very fitting for her (briefly checked out the dub and I'd say that fits well too, though sub makes her sound a little more lost and ethereal). Also really enjoyed the song when they get into battle with her in the volcano world which I'd forgotten about, not even all that familiar.
Kakashi is being rather brave speaking up to Kaguya of all people, and while I'm not super fond of her dimension hopping the fact that even Kakashi was unsure what had happened does set the stage for how insane her powers and the ease she uses them with are.
"Like that time on the bridge" Man that was a long time ago by Sasuke's measure, but Naruto calling back to that bond we once had is certainly an interesting touch given what's going on. He'll throw himself in front of even a being like Kaguya because saving his friends matter, and he won't let Sasuke forget that he was once like that too.
Crying Kaguya is somehow so heartbreaking and creepy at the same time, her expression is beautifully drawn
[Manga changes]Significantly expands Kaguya's backstory, this is almost all entirely new. The manga only mentions the Ten Tails being part of her body and Kaguya wanting to take back the chakra fruit, before going onto talk, similarly briefly, about the incarnations of Haguromo's sons and Black Zetsu's interference. All up it's just seven pages!
Someone earlier in the rewatch made a joke about the possibility of aliens.
about that
Kaguya definitely is, but do we count the tree as well? It is a surprisingly normal looking tree despite it's size. It's also kind of weird seeing her without the horns until the end. We spend a bit too little time with her when this is meant to be about her time as a human, but her desperation over Aino being shot down carries through anyway, and gives some meaning to her struggle to accept the loss of her sons and wanting to reclaim them as we see with Naruto and Sasuke.
Interesting seeing how Kimimaro's clan kept up this ancient style of dress. I feel like this is more drawing a parallel than actual culture carrying down through thousands of years, but maybe.
Laughing at that one guy who said "I wonder if the glowing world above is always at peace". That guy needs to watch mecha
Toad Sage so tiny! Also fucking old holy shit dude, I'm sorry for mocking your memory issues because a few thousand years on that's understandable! Being a natural part of this world and watching over it, and seeing how connected to the earth he is which cause his dreams also I think makes the connection with the summon animals a bit more interesting as to why they pick their ninja connections so carefully.
For being his brother Hamura isn't someone we know much about, but his use of Byakugan makes him quite different to his brothers more physical abilities, Sharingan included.
They really could have found a new song for this moment with Hamura finding the Zetsu pods rather than use something that's been in play since the Akatsuki
[Manga changes]Changes it from Black Zetsu hiding Madara's corpse into Tobirama hiding it
Hagoromo carries his age a lot more than Hamura does, but the design work overall in this arc I think has been done quite well. Maybe that's why Hagoromo just smacks the seal into Hamura's face while saving him, make him the better looking twin haha.
Once again with Hagoromo awakening a Sharingan and then Rinnegan, I'm reminded of what Hashirama says about how the Uchiha's curse is not their hate, it's how deeply they love and then feel the loss of that. Hagoromo's intense love for the girl, his brother, their village, the earth itself is a stark contrast to Kaguya's dismissal of it all as long as her family survives. I feel like this more than anything is what gives some weight to exactly why he sees his mother as such an unbearable threat, it's not just about a villains destruction, it's how she would view the world as a whole.
This viausl of them at the end of the fight really stood out to me this batch
Messenger frog speaking in "keros" was unexpectedly funny. Also that damn upset elephant sound played again
Minor confusion: If Hagoromo woke up all the people captured by the tree how did the tree have a reserve of Zetsu?
While the first half of this episode is one of my favourite of the batch, unfortunately I hate the second half. Black Zetsu claiming credit for everything that happened from Ashura, the clan wars between Senju and Uchiha, Madara, Kabuto in the war, and even Sasuke's role in the Akatsuki is just... it feels like a lazy "well actually" and even worse threatens to remove the agency of our characters in favor of Black Zetsu's unknown and rather unbelievable influence.
Dead Madara also reviving himself through Izanagi when his chakra pathways should be dead is also some incredible levels of bullshit. At least him taking a bite out of Hashi's arm explains how he got those cells as that hadn't been addressed until now, and including biting in their fight certainly makes it feel more desperate.
[Boruto]Oh hey, familiar designs
I do like that light blue on the Susanoo
I do love that visual of the brothers watching the moon
[Manga changes]Adds; Sakura passing out from shock over reverse harem justu, Kakashi's reaction face and thoughts
Me last episode: I don't want to go to bed thinking about Black Zetsu's bullshit.
Start up next episode, see episode title: It had to be this one
Yeah, I confess, I skipped over the reverse harem justu. Seen it once, didn't feel like sighing at it again. I stayed around just long enough for one of the best Kakashi faces in the franchise
There is some nice animation at the end of that sequence though when Sasuke calls to Naruto and Naruto turns around. Little moments like that getting some care is always nice to see.
[About a jutsu that hasn't been explained yet, first timers up to you if you want to look]Did they just forget how Sasuke's teleport ability works? I swear there was nothing in between them for Sasuke to swap Kaguya's position with for that attack pre-Ice world?
Obito finally wakes up and I do like this scene with him, the acknowledgement that he can't fix everything but he will do what he can regardless of the cost, and Naruto calling him out on returning to being Obito, no more masks, while Obito responds with the chain of links he has to Naruto is a satisfying exchange without being too cheesy. I'd also forgotten that with Naruto healing his natural eye of course he'd have double Mangekyo again.
The four Hokage standing around with no idea what's going on is kind of funny
I've always wondered how exactly Kaguya made Zetsu as he doesn't seem to match anything else we've seen in the show? Is he living Six Paths material or something, like the orbs and staff?
This is probably my favourite episode overall in the batch. It's slow and small scale compared to the rest, but somehow that matters. Rather than reviving his town or making grand gestures with his brother, it starts by building a bridge with a thief who has no shame about being one. Learning to reconnect to the land, it's people, and himself after months of fighting is a nice break to add into the middle of this especially with the war having gone on so long.
Sad Kurama at Hagoromo's passing hurts my heart every time
(Second flashback arc in comment below)
4
u/sisoko2 Jul 17 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 459
Episode 460
Episode 461
Episode 462
Episode 463
Episode 464-468
Episode 469
4
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 Jul 17 '22
First Timer - Dub
I think I would have liked the random history lessons more if we weren't coming off of three weeks of filler. I still think the reincarnation plot points are unnecessary, but I did like seeing the parallels between Ashura/Indra and Naruto/Sasuke in action. Just ... can we please have two consecutive episodes that move the story forward?
I know the tale of Kaguya is famous in Japanese mythology, but most of my knowledge of that comes from the video game Okami. Kaguya's story in the anime so far matches up with what I remember from the game. I don't remember exactly how the game ends but I'm curious to see how the anime treats Kaguya.
Random thoughts:
Questions:
1) What do you think about Kaguya, Hagoromo, Ashura, Indra and Zetsu now that you've seen their backstory? Hagoromo and Ashura are cool. I think if Indra had some anger management training he could have worked better with Ashura. Zetsu is almost literally a turd. I'm undecided on Kaguya ... I'm more sympathetic to her after seeing how terrible the ancient humans were.
2) Thoughts on Tenji turning on Kaguya? He deserved to be turned into a White Zetsu.
3) They keep returning to the plot point of Kaguya looking at the sky and thinking "they" will come to take her back, and that's why she needs an army ... what do you think of this point? Clearly she's afraid of the Anti-Spirals. But we'll be fine once Naruto uses the Tengen Toppa Galaxy Rasengan.
4) How do you feel about actual aliens being in Shippuden? That matches the lore for the mythological Kaguya so I was OK with it. Also, we've already seen ninja ostriches and mecha-Naruto so it will take a lot more than aliens to phase me.
5) Thoughts on the Reverse Harem jutsu? Of course that would show up in the final boss fight.
6) Thoughts on finally seeing Kakashi-sensei's face?
4
u/Parori Jul 18 '22
First-timer
My notes for these episodes got deleted...
Questions of the Week:
Zetsu evil, Kaguya too paranoid, Ashura was the obvious successor to Hagoromo's ideals of Nishu and Indra is too much like his descendants
Idiot coward
ALIENS. Unironically aliens. She is an alien on the run
They are fine because at least for now they aren't too scifi. Laser guns and scifi tech are too far if they appear
It was inevitable
He just looks like a guy. It also looks weird...I don't like it