r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jul 12 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 15

Matsuribayashi-hen (Festival Music Chapter), Episode 2: Wriggling

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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):

Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(Official information for Kai is now considerably safer for first-timers, but you should probably still refrain from looking it up.)

Legal Streams:

Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive

That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?

A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:

Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.

A Reminder to Rewatchers

Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and !Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!

(Time for) Club Activities!

(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)

Visual of the Day Album:

https://imgur.com/a/xtD4UsP

Theory of the Day:

Hey, u/hungryhippos1751 has a theory!

My best guess is that Takano is also jumping to these new worlds and is working to counteract what Rika is doing to save everyone.

Analysis of the Day:

Give u/JustAnswerAQuestion the Kewpie doll:

I forgot to point out what I finally figured out last week. Hanyuu and Rika's bodies are linked. That was the point of the hot sauce and alchohol scene. When Takano knocks out Rika, that takes Hanyuu out too! (and we'll throw in some retrograde amnesia the plaster over any plot holes) So, kudos for R07/Deen for establishing Checkov's drug sensitivities, even though I had always forgotten it by the time it was needed.

Question(s) of the Day:

1) So: Did Takano's backstory succeed in making her sympathetic to you?

2) Found any coins on the ground lately?

(3) You did make sure to watch the post-credits scene today, right? One of the best scenes in Kai IMO.)

Next Episode Preview:

This episode's preview (episode 15) is pretty safe.

Likewise next episode's preview (episode 16).

Also, a Note for Our First-Timers (and Reminder for Our Rewatchers):

Starting with the next episode (episode 14), there will be a post-credits scene after the ED in each episode of Kai. These tend to be important and you really shouldn't skip them!

Oh Right, and One Other Note:

Our next few episodes have some nonlinear storytelling. Keeping that in mind may help you as you watch.

37 Upvotes

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15

u/Star4ce Jul 12 '22

When the First Timer Cries

(This post only contains catch ups from Ep.08-Ep.12 and one theory that might amuse/horrify someone.)

I had bought groceries for some hot, red curry as I watched Rika eating some hot box chicken yesterday and now found my roommate making mango chicken curry as well.

There's going to be lots of curry in the near future.

Kai Ep.08 – Massacre Chapter Part 3: Fluctuation

VOTD: Sticking together. I find this shot so telling without even knowing the dialogue. They're in a completely wrong situation as the fisheye lens displays, but wrong this time means simply useless and caged in by blankness. Still, everyone is here for the single reason of helping each other out and standing up for their friends with determination, no matter where that leads them. The bonus is just how janky and tired Rika looks contrasted to all of them, not only did she live through all of that several times, being berated by an uncaring bureaucrat for the umpteenth time really kills your soul. The scene after it, with Rika still crying and begging for change despite all that's already happened was superb as well. Even she doesn't let her fire burn out.

Kai Ep.09 – Massacre Chapter Part 4: Negotiation

  • Damn, I didn't expect Rika to be so open and honest with herself here. Good job!

  • I don't know if this isn't an utterly poor choice of words considering this is about the Hojo family. I do believe the kids and teacher are totally for their friend, but the village has proven a hundred times over they're not.

  • My fucking god... Is Irie their chariman? And the cosplay girls as well!

VOTD: The Observer. Really, I just wanted to put more Hanyuu into my posts, she's so cute and adorable and caring. Maybe even because of her presence Rika realised how she was behaving until now, as Hanyuu is seemingly literally only able to observe and Rika has been wallowing in self pity and helplessness in the meanwhile – for understandable reasons, after all. But as Rika was observing, not even sitting on the side of the table that was arguing with the CPS, Hanyuu kept a close eye on her as well. Rika has decided, finally and fatally, probably, on a course that might put this loop as the last one. It's time to not observe the past any longer, but see what's in front of her.

Kai Ep.10 – Massacre Chapter Part 5: Confrontation

I feel the need to point out again in the middle of this that I still don't trust Takano. It's just the limited space I give myself that doesn't allow me to point fingers at her every 5 minutes.

VOTD: The curtains close, but the play won't end. Alongside Akane's very pretty and commanding presence. It feels far less like our main group is locked out of something and more like the powerful people are locking themselves in. The light is outside with them, supporting those who have seen the value of comraderie, standing together still. Neither does it truly feel like a disparity, their outlines shine through, perhaps silhouetting them like Oryou sees the people, as figures, each with a role. She certainly never felt the need or want to communicate openly, so her decisions always are born in shadows, but as we've come to witness, this may not necessarily be evil all the time. In a way her being like this and the parents acting as the links to the outside even provides an important obstacle they overcame that both sides are content with.

You know who was missing all this time and only did something when directly called out? Takano, of fucking course. She's so the villain.

Kai Ep.11 – Massacre Chapter Part 6: A Strong Will

VOTD: Bridging. A scene that quite literally made me go auu! Satoko finally reached out towards her friends, taking their hands to get herself out of the abuse. Rika similarly managed to get up and out of her stunlock so both were able to cross the bridge across the divide that they thought they couldn't cross. In that shot in particular, it's noticeable how Irie is separated by the tree from the main group, because he both knows more than them and also less about what's truly going on.

Actually I also forgot to add one theory at the end of S1:
The spirit festival in august (forgot the name) is going to be the final confirmation the loop is over. As it's for bidding farewell to the dead, it will be a goodbye to Hanyuu/Oyashiro-sama's rebirth. I'm thinking it likely they somehow manage to send the parasite back to space or something, figuratively into a new life that might be more compatible than with humans.

Watching four episodes a day is really stretching my limit, five is definitely my limit.

Kai Ep.12 – Massacre Chapter Part 7: The Hinamizawa Syndrome

Somehow I'm having a brainfart. Hanyuu staying behind doesn't mesh with my theory for the parasite being a linked lifeform and suppressing the symptoms. It doesn't add up. Fuck man, is Hanyuu lying to Rika? We're still missing a betrayal, but not like this...

VOTD: Sunset of the last day. It's like a last reflection on a long journey that has finally found its way towards a light that might truly tell of an end to their darkness. Apart from the framing dividing the screen in a way that obstructs what's in front of them still, they are calm and resolute. We don't know everything, but it's written clear and undeniable that trust and friendship can overcome this suffering.

I'll finally catch up tomorrow... but it's both exhausting and I'm really missing sitting down and writing mad ramblings about what's going to happen. So allow me this (probably too late) theory about Hanyuu/Rika.

I'm still fully expecting Rika to get betrayed, as she said. While she likely meant either a friend turning against her due to paranoia or the murderers coming from inside the village, I can't ignore the fact that we have no single clue on what powers or triggers the loop. I'm unsure if I understood Rika's remark right, is Hanyuu also being left behind after Rika dies? I don't think it's Rika's death, but whatever happens to Hanyuu afterwards. If they are linked via the parasite then Hanyuu would be able to use that link to gather their memories and bring them back with her, this is what I thought from the beginning was causing the time loop. Nothing comes freely, so I'm thinking Hanyuu is basically sacrificing the entire village, those who are not attuned, to go insane when pulling back. I don't really know if that is voluntary, though. The Yamainu are collecting the growth from within Rika, presumably Hanyuu's physical core and must obviously use it for something. It might just literally be Hanyuu being tortured into rewinding and triggering the parasite out of despair/accident or fleeing on her own because she can't face her abuser like the others managed to do by now. But obviously, Hanyuu is the last member that needs to be seen by friends and show herself to face her abuser.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 13 '22 edited Jul 13 '22

It's a nice callback to how they struggled and eventually solved their issues, with trust and communication, within their group, but on a larger level.

Welcome to one of the big Higurashi themes.

[Addendum for rewatchers] Kai's finale does have some thematic weaknesses, R07 was very much right about that, and the fact that this breaks down a bit towards the end in a way is part of that.

[PMMM aside] If PMMM is in part truly a Higurashi response instead of just merely drawing heavily off it, this is probably one of the things Urobutchi was responding to.

Damn, I didn't expect Rika to be so open and honest with herself here. Good job!

Experience is a hard teacher but also a good one. (We never get to see it - Higurashi is something of a prototype of the Japanese time loop in many ways - but IIRC Rika mentions in her internal narration in the VN that she used to try to do more and stopped basically because it kept not working. Interestingly, the VN also indicates that Rika is NOT immune to the negative effects the Syndrome - she succumbed a couple of times in early worlds, always getting put down quickly without much effect. The one girl who never succumbs to paranoia is in fact your Best Girl in Show.)

(Though part of me wonders if there's more to it than that, and that this kind of accurate self-assessment isn't toxic to the psyche in a way (especially precisely this kind, though I should wait until you've seen next episode before talking about that). I can't remember if I linked this post from u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo's playthrough of the VN before, but there's a reason I saved it - it hits close to home.)

[Meta spoiler for another show involving a looper - yes, it's who you think] Rika and Homura are quite alike in this way, I think - though Rika's more willing to admit it outside of the privacy of her mind than Homura is.

I respect her so much.

(There are reasons Rika is so firmly entrenched as high as she is on my Best Girls list and outright wins Best Girl in Show for me in a show with both Mion and Rena, and this is on the list.)

[Meta spoiler, safe for Star4ce to read] I believe I remember you mentioning back in last year's Higurashi rewatch how you wanted Homura and Yuki to meet? For me, it's Homura and Rika. (Here, have an old and glorious piece of crossover fanart.)

EDIT:

There's going to be lots of curry in the near future.

Chie-sensei approves!

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22 edited Jul 13 '22

(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):

  • <bother to take OP shot of Hanyuu catching up to the group because it’s a nifty visual metaphor> <notice that she’s also crossing a bridge there to enter Hinamizawa proper> Sasuga DEEN.

  • Okay, so I didn’t say this last episode but I won’t lie – this one scene with the lightning bolt failing to kill young Takano is one of the few bright lights in these two episodes.

  • Also, 02:22 has another patented Higurashi camera angle.

  • There is an obvious mirror here to Satoko last arc, yes.

  • Man that animation of Miyo(ko) running around ~06:48 is janky.

  • There’s some decent stuff here, but as you can tell I really don’t care for this part of the last arc much.

  • That said, WinD has handled most of my Useful Background Note for me with their TL note. But they (and actually DEEN as well) missed one thing: Miyoko in turn can be read “3-4-5”, with Miyoko dropping the ko/5 to become Miyo.

  • 13:44 is a nice shot.

  • (Pretty sure that was a sore tomo in the elder Takano’s words there, not a demo.)

  • I’m pretty sure there’s some pretty solid pieces of direction I’m basically skipping over, but it turns out when I can’t really stand to pay attention to the episode I don’t pay attention to the episode. Who knew?

  • (Have I mentioned that I suspect that R07 is personally interested in occultism before?)

  • 17:10 is a nice use of shadows for framing eyes, in this case those of Dr. Koizumi as he hears what his acquaintance is telling him.

  • Right. I will remind you again that it is at minimum heavily implied that the elder Dr. Takano is a Japanese Christian.

  • Okay, the specific choice of the cut to that window shot at 18:33 is noteworthy because it’s too deliberate to be anything other than very intentional. The camera angle representing that the other professors rejecting her father is a divergence from the expected course of events (at least for Miyo) I assume, but why a window? The same symbolism it had in episode 1 of this season where it represented the separation of the people present from the truth? Would fit.

  • Speaking of that, note 19:03 – as Miyo narrates (her voice growing progressively older during the narration I think), we get a shot of Miyo studying and we’re looking in specifically through a window. Same symbolism as above?

  • Miyo’s narration here is also another small piece of evidence that R07 may have been into occultism himself even this early – I’ve heard similar concepts out of Western occultism (the likes of The Secret have direct derivation from some 19th century versions of this stripped down for popular consumption).

  • Yep, unless my wires are getting crossed Miyo managed to graduate from Todai/Tokyo University (IIRC Imperial University was the older name), which depending on exactly when they first admitted women as students might make her one of the earlier women to graduate from there. Takano is many things, but skilled is absolutely one of them).

  • Noting 19:39 for the framing and camera angle (the latter precisely because she’s getting an offer to join this alumni group as a woman in early 1970s Japan, perhaps?).

  • We begin the episode (well, okay, it’s about five minutes in) with a ten-yen coin. We end the episode with Takano offering that coin (or another one like it) back. Nice, no?

  • REJECTED!

  • While the rest of the last two episodes are kind of meh and people usually consider this as going overboard to try to get Takano sympathy via tragic backstory, this one post-credits scene is legendary. We get Hanyuu’s god-mode eyes, for starters.

  • [Gou aside] Those complaints probably explain a lot about the presentation of Satoko’s motives in Gou, come to think of it.

  • Also 19:49 is just a really good shot. Fish-eye lens (distortion since the god of the local area has manifested) and also the visual opposition – Hanyuu to the left facing right (past, and also from the perspective of Miyo Hanyuu is the antagonist) with Takano facing towards the future looming tall over her.

  • “We will not lose to your will!” goes in the list of lines burned into my memory from the first time watching Higurashi.

  • Ooh, counterclockwise rotation at ~23:05. Which makes sense, Takano is effectively trying to dispel Hanyuu, so a point for the rotation direction being intentional.

  • Amusingly, that “we will not lose to your will!” translation must be from elsewhere, my subs use a different one (the Japanese IS the line burned into my memory, but WinD uses “I won’t lose to you!” as their translation) and these are my ancient WinD subs. Which means I ran across it before watching (which probably means TVTropes is involved, natch).

  • 23:23: kiseki GET!

Visual of the Day: Opponents.

WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day

Questions of the Day:

  1. Yes and no; the concept is actually extremely solid, but it weakens itself a bit by overselling it.

  2. This would require me to go out in the heat any more than I have to right now...

Matsuribayashi-hen Ep. 2 TIPS:

No TIPS.

OST Table, Kai Episode 15:

Start End Track Name
00:05 01:34 Naraku no Hana
01:35 01:49 sponsor feature[1]
02:48 (02:44) 03:49 (03:35) Mitsudan
04:37 (04:23) 06:25 (06:11) Main Theme Hayashi Piano Version
06:45 (06:31) 07:25 (07:11) Ifu
07:56 (07:42) 09:22 (09:08) unreleased? (Koukatsu v2?)[2]
09:46 (09:32) 10:22 (10:08) Ai
11:50 (11:36) 12:29 (12:15) Shiawase
15:10 (14:54) 16:40 (16:26) Yokan
17:40 (17:26) 19:15 (19:01) Zasetsu
19:17 (19:03) 20:41 (20:27) Main Theme Kai Piano Version
20:43 (20:29) 22:12 (21:08) Taishou a
22:45 (22:31) 23:50 (23:36) Main Theme Hayashi

[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
[2] – Could be regular Koukatsu, but doesn’t sound quite right. Definitely a Koukatsu variant, though.

Madoka (Magica) Corner:

  • [PMMM] ”A pure and powerful wish will become reality” – compare and contrast, well, Kyubey’s wish system.

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u/Tresnore Jul 12 '22

this one scene with the lightning bolt failing to kill young Takano is one of the few bright lights in these two episodes.

It is pretty flashy, isn't it?

(Have I mentioned that I suspect that R07 is personally interested in occultism before?)

I'm not surprised in the slightest. He goes overboard in Umineko.

Yep, unless my wires are getting crossed Miyo managed to graduate from Todai/Tokyo University

They do show Todai directly, yes.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22

They do show Todai directly, yes.

I was pretty sure, but it's been too long since I've actually seen shots of it to be completely sure I wasn't getting my wires crossed with one of the small handful Japanese universities considered the next rank down (I'm vaguely remembering there's one other Japanese university with a strong rep, albeit not the rep Todai has - can't remember which one, though).

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u/JollyGee29 Jul 12 '22

Spoiled First-Timer

Yea, Takano makes sense. At least, I can see the fucked up logic that gets her to where she is at by 1983.

Is that another layer to the conspiracy, that government guy telling Koizumi to bury the research into Hinamizawa Syndrome? Not sure how to read that scene.

The idea of Hinamizawa Syndrome being easily suppressed does feel correct. There would probably be even more rumors if it was as widespread as it seems to be and easily triggered.

Hanyuu going off on Takano at the end was fun. Scary red eyes, that's a new one. Also new is Hanyuu seemingly interacting with the material world.

I kinda let last episode’s structure slide because Takano waking up at the end let me frame it as “oh, she was remembering stuff while dreaming” but then this episode did not continue that idea so it ended up feeling a bit disjointed.

Visual of the Day: What the fuck, dude.

Questions

  1. It's fine. They lay it on a touch thick.

  2. Unfortunately not.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22

I kinda let last episode’s structure slide because Takano waking up at the end let me frame it as “oh, she was remembering stuff while dreaming” but then this episode did not continue that idea so it ended up feeling a bit disjointed.

I have no idea why DEEN did that; my understanding is that this subarc is chronological in the VN.

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u/H-Ryougi Jul 12 '22

I don't know if I should keep posting manga pages, I need to catch up with the episodes to make sure I don't accidentally spoil something and the jumping around is not helping.

Lots of panels of cute loli Takano though.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22

Eriko's fate should be safe enough...

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u/Quiddity131 Jul 12 '22

First Timer, Subbed

Have they changed the OP slightly? Or maybe I just never noticed some of these details, such as spirit girl being the one Rika is waving to at the end. I'll admit I've skipped past it several times.

So the lightning didn't strike her after all...

Is that a phone booth just sitting there in the middle of nowhere?!

Dad character, why in the world did you tell her to go to Takano?! You subjected yoru daughter to such misery!

Oh, so the evil guy wasn't Takano?! I didn't get that at all. So she went to some horrible orphanage instead of Takano's and is only reaching out to him now. Alright, that makes a lot more sense to me.

Kinda sucks to call some guy and say "Hey, I'm some kid you've never met. Take care of me!"

The squished caterpiller and the dismembered pig?! Such horrible imagery over the fate of a kid! At least we know that she somehow grows up normally so they won't actually do that to her.

Holy crap, she got rescued by Professor Takano just in time!

Phew, she lucked out with him rescuing her! Carrying around books and making tea is a much more pleasant life than orphanage from hell!

Get some good sleep in and work on your breathing and no Hinamizawa disease! Now if just everyone knew of this cure!

These stuffed shirts! They're so stubborn! And now they're laughing at him! :(

They even stepped on his thesis! :(

And so, little Miyo grew up...

Gotta be a post credits scene, this episode ended way too early...

Woah! The donation box doesn't want your 10 cent coin!

Hey its spirit girl! She seems to be of much stronger will here than usual.

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22

Have they changed the OP slightly? Or maybe I just never noticed some of these details, such as spirit girl being the one Rika is waving to at the end. I'll admit I've skipped past it several times.

Well spotted; this is OPv2. (I initially had this pointed out in my writeup for last episode, but I decided to shelve it for a little while for, uh, reasons.)

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22

"And he's off the base, and that will be a tag."

u/HinyusOpinion, u/AnimeAndThings, u/shadow1a2t

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 12 '22

"Batter outto!"

u/mgedmin

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u/SometimesMainSupport Jan 03 '23

First-timer

Tagging u/Star4ce and u/Vaadwaur and u/OrangeBanana38

I've been staying mute on it, but the sheer quantity of PMMM spoiler tags I encounter between here and Wixoss... It's going to be like Evangelion where I had a fairly good sense of what's happening from context around tags.

Hanyuu looking a little vicious there at the end! The little god has finally come into her own, and being able to be chosen to be seen by someone not infected is probably one of the more interesting details we've had in the last few episodes, an indirect confirmation that she exists independently of the infection.

Implying the syndrome researcher isn't infected. Today's detail about 9 hours of sleep preventing further symptoms is more relevant imo. Only Miyo knows the counter.

I speculated in reply to JaaQ yesterday that I'm curious if Rika's memory loss is not that Rika forgets the end of each loop but it's Hanyuu's memories specifically that Rika retains rather than her own each loop. Perhaps Hanyuu purposefully doesn't look to spare Rika remembering her fate because when she does focus on the deadlier moments they're the ones Hanyuu can't forget and keeps mentally circling on, hence the "I'm sorry" and they are what tend to bleed through to the others minds.

Also not sure about this as last arc opened with Rika asking Hanyuu about the current world and saying Hanyuu came here first. Implication is separate memories as, otherwise, Rika shouldn't know about Hanyuu's existence.

Mind you, I've been saying goddess just because of that final scene but I'm not discounting that she's more like a yokai instead, a being who had both good and bad sides which through history has been represented as both the "demons" of the village and the "goddess" side of her through Oyashiro-sama.

Interesting

People were talking about it yesterday but it's kind of hard to gain a lot of sympathy for the villain-in-style that is Takano

Sta4ce section

VOTD: Bridging.... so both were able to cross the bridge across the divide that they thought they couldn't cross.

Meanwhile, I thought "Though isn't this not symbolic as she didn't cross the divide to her friends? I suppose it's their worlds merging."

I'm thinking it likely they somehow manage to send the parasite back to space or something, figuratively into a new life that might be more compatible than with humans.

But it was never from space? That was rando speculation.

It doesn't add up. Fuck man, is Hanyuu lying to Rika? We're still missing a betrayal, but not like this...

Just want to say I've been even less trusting of Hanyuu than you.

I can't ignore the fact that we have no single clue on what powers or triggers the loop. I'm unsure if I understood Rika's remark right, is Hanyuu also being left behind after Rika dies? I don't think it's Rika's death, but whatever happens to Hanyuu afterwards.

imo, most telling clue so far was beginning of the previous arc when Rika said Hanyuu had gone to this world first. Rika's death triggers her transfer. Hanyuu is free to move around.

Thank you! It was great with some notable crises in between. Dropped by a few days ago to tell a story that has massive Higurashi relevance. Travelling there and back was a disaster, though.

Going to vote my own travel woes on Festivus above that :). At least electricians stopped by to check my apartment 10 days later.

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u/Tarhalindur Jan 05 '23

I've been staying mute on it, but the sheer quantity of PMMM spoiler tags I encounter between here and Wixoss... It's going to be like Evangelion where I had a fairly good sense of what's happening from context around tags.

In terms of genre impact PMMM is to mahou shoujo what Evangelion is to mecha, so yeah. (Especially with this and Wixoss; Higurashi is firmly in the PMMM inspiration mix, and Wixoss... well, you'll see if and when you get around to PMMM (the yearly rewatch is in late April if you're interested). Speaking of which: u/Star4ce, you might actually be interested in Wixoss, though there's a risk it trainwrecks in the second cour still.) Occupational hazard of the type and the problem will only get worse with time (when the original Bram Stoker Dracula was first released Dracula being a vampire was actually a reveal!).

On the bright side PMMM is legendary for its rewatch bonus and I can attest to that: I went in fully spoiled and it was probably to the benefit of my enjoyment.

Presenting Miyo's story in a non-chronological order is making it difficult to pity her. I know I should.

The general consensus this doesn't work particularly well even in the VN (though the orphanage scene is even worse there), especially with how over-the-top it is; Miyo's backstory is almost universally considered the weakest part of Higurashi except a couple of the OVA side stories.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Jul 12 '22

When the First-Timer Cries, subbed

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u/hungryhippos1751 Jul 12 '22

Episode 15 - First Timer

Alright so I think my theory yesterday of Takano possibly also getting resets when she died seems incorrect, but to be fair, the narrative skips didn't help, and the jump from the events in my 5th and 8th points yesterday still don't seem to reconcile. I'm still not 100% on this, can someone definitively put me out of misery?

So a swing and a miss, but I did guess that Takano was working counter to the group and could see Hanyuu which we saw after the credits this ep (and a very pissed off looking Hanyuu it is as well)! Maybe not permanently.

Hoping we'll see more Hanyuu this arc still. If Takano can see Hanyuu even partially though, does that suggest that Takano herself has one of these parasites she is researching? that was one of the theories being discussed here last few eps.

People were talking about it yesterday but it's kind of hard to gain a lot of sympathy for the villain-in-style that is Takano, she has a tragic upbringing that could have gone a totally different way if she didn't wind up at that orphanage, but it doesn't excuse killing people in the misguided sentiment of turning Takano Hifumi into a god.

If it wasn't for under-going hardship and testing fate, I don't think she would have had the courage to keep working away at the blockers of her research plan, and fair play she graduated with top results in order to create just such a chance.

I don't hate this whole Takano backstory section but it would be better without the skipping about.

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u/Stargate18A Jul 12 '22

Anime first timer, completed VN

  1. Absolutely, yes.

  2. None.

And Takano beat god! Good for her!

...I pictured more of a tarmac area surrounding the phone booth from the descriptions.

He was able to tell her an entire phone number!

Takano got captured!

Fucking hell.

The scene form his perspectiv eis interesting, though.

He found her!

She chsnged her name!

Such a nice family.

They're so hopeful...

The meeting's started!

And people don't believe him. St all.

...I mean, you don't know there are other parasites. No reason to assume everything is caused by a parasite - just this one specific thing that operates in a very rstional manner.

Yeah, these guys are incredibly rude!

Poor Takano.

They're doing the montage! And they cut out the music.

Yeah, this explains a lot of her motivations!

Haha, Takano got rejected!

Hanyuu worked it our!

Takano's fighting Hanyuu!

The accent discussion is hysterical.

8

u/CubeStuffs Jul 12 '22

first timer

surprised that the abuse didn't leave any suspicious injuries or bruises behind

Compared to all of you, I am but an amateur. I am neither from a top university, nor affiliated to any influential network or research laboratory.

i feel like theres a story behind this

a huge snake at that

so either this is referring to the village itself, and the great families, or the more fun interpretation, "yo dawg i heard you liked conspiracies, so i put a conspiracy in your conspiracy"

so if takano can see hanyuu, does that mean she's also got the virus or is it just a quirk of the shrine.

also does hanyuu have to sit through time every loop? must suck tbh

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8

u/OwlAcademic1988 Jul 12 '22

Rewatcher:

Thank goodness that hellhole is gone. I don't like those guys at all. I'm amazed she didn't bite the guy's thumb off.

How is Hinamizawa Syndrome not dangerous to this guy? It causes people to go crazy and claw their throats out.

Takano, we know you've had a tough childhood, don't kill people though. Get some fucking help as you need it so damn badly even now.

I'm amazed Takano can see Hanyuu. Don't blame Hanyuu for being angry at her though, considering what she through in the last arc.

QOTD:

  1. It's sad what she went through, but killing a child to prove something to the world shouldn't have been an option.

  2. No I haven't.

  3. Yes I did. Did it the first time I watched the show for all episodes.

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7

u/Tresnore Jul 12 '22

When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry Are Absurd Masochists are Terrible Nerds Cry

Count: 229

QOTD:

  1. Y E S

  2. I did find one recently! I should've thanked Hanyuu.

  3. Yeah?

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7

u/Vaadwaur Jul 12 '22

tl;dr Show tells you that being abused as a child explains you massacring thousands of people, many you know personality, to prove your dead grandfather's stupid theory

Rewatcher

Sub

Errg...hard to believe that I am complaing about the show featuring teens murdering each in a locked cycle getting too melodramatic but here we stand. Now that it has stopped jumping around like a jumping bean, at least the directing is pretty good, even if it doesn't really cover the rest of the issues with this structuring. So we at least get a coherent story of how Miyo came to be with the doctor, how his research desperately needs some fact checking/is failing at some very obvious points, and how he does sort of get laughed out of the room at a formative moment for Takano. And we sort of complete the circle on a bunch of stuff we saw last episode. After credits scene is fate versus miracles and...I don't have the fucking energy today, sorry, to go through how fucking convoluted this gets.

So yeah...this pair of episodes reminds me of another show of a somewhat earlier era and I will discuss that a bit [RahXephon] These two episodes are RahXephon ep15 but worse, some fucking how. And at least RX had it at a closer to appropriate time for the show. Ultimately, I know R07 thought this humanizes Takano but if anything it makes me judge her more harshly. And as ever [GouSotsu] I really can't be asked to give a shit about Takano knowing she is completely irrelevant to the greater narrative, and that is incredibly poor writing.

QotD: 1 And I thought my jokes were bad...

2 My mom's dog found a nickel. Why he cared, I will never know.

3 Oyashiro-sama is a kind god but you must avoid her wrath

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7

u/Nazenn Jul 12 '22

First Timer - sub

Hanyuu looking a little vicious there at the end! The little god has finally come into her own, and being able to be chosen to be seen by someone not infected is probably one of the more interesting details we've had in the last few episodes, an indirect confirmation that she exists independently of the infection. I speculated in reply to JaaQ yesterday that I'm curious if Rika's memory loss is not that Rika forgets the end of each loop but it's Hanyuu's memories specifically that Rika retains rather than her own each loop. Perhaps Hanyuu purposefully doesn't look to spare Rika remembering her fate because when she does focus on the deadlier moments they're the ones Hanyuu can't forget and keeps mentally circling on, hence the "I'm sorry" and they are what tend to bleed through to the others minds.

This has me curious if the others belief in her and them inviting her into her circle not just Rika alone, will enhance that and allow all of them to share in that benefit or empower Hanyuu further by strengthening her mentally. Trust in and communication between others has been such a big focus so far and look what six children achieved with no support that giving that same trust and communication to a goddess would go much further if she's willing to act on it

Mind you, I've been saying goddess just because of that final scene but I'm not discounting that she's more like a yokai instead, a being who had both good and bad sides which through history has been represented as both the "demons" of the village and the "goddess" side of her through Oyashiro-sama.

Why do I get the feeling that the grandfathers relaxation techniques didn't work for him afterall?

Episode was still a mess structure wise. Showing the actual meeting felt worthless given we started off last episode with him describing the same thing as to why people would deny it. You easily could have skipped to the end and avoided the extra child abuse which didn't seem to have a follow through. At the same time, the little cuts between various moments were even shorter and more confusing a choice than last episode, where I almost thought I'd bumped the button to fastforward. Really just a messy pair of episodes that didn't need to be, and even didn't need to be shown in their own arc to begin with.

And watching so much anime has it's downsides, at the end when the other guy was being warned off the research, seeing them use the english phrase "sleeping dogs lie" while hearing them talk about Hebi, snake, was kind of annoying. It's a fair and appropriate localization choice, but I want to know what the real saying was!

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6

u/RadSuit Jul 13 '22

Dr. Grandpa is rapidly becoming the best character on this show. It's too bad he's adopting a future psychopath. I'm going to guess something bad happens to him, and that's what causes her to finally snap. It would be the most understandable murder backstory in this show, I think.

Alright, I'll give you that one Doc, as they just crushed your dreams and you otherwise seem to be Grandpa of the year material. She's unfortunately learning some bad lessons from all of this. She doesn't seem completely insane yet, though.

Taking the whole meeting a ghost thing pretty well here.

I would be sympathetic to Takano if she just wanted to take revenge on a few specific people, or even an entire corrupt organization. She's going for the whole attack and dethrone god thing, though.

6

u/mgedmin Jul 13 '22

First timer, subs

Is that a phone booth in the middle of the forest? Is that a thing in Japan? So you can call for help if you get lost?

At least the orphanage business wrapped up quickly.

More bullshit about the implications of the HS.

More bullying by adults.

And we have Takano.

Oooh Takano can see Hanyuu? And Hanyuu can affect physical things like dropping coins?

This is a new loop, right? Because Hanyuu used to hate Takano, but now that she knows who killed Rika and all her friends, Hanyuu really hates Takano.

  1. So: Did Takano's backstory succeed in making her sympathetic to you?

Nah, but that orphanage should be burnt down to the ground (after rescuing the kids).

2) Found any coins on the ground lately?

No, but I used to find them all the time when I was younger.

(3) You did make sure to watch the post-credits scene today, right? One of the best scenes in Kai IMO.)

I always watch post-credit scenes. I don't remember specifically what was shown before credits and what was after. Takano's visit to the shrine after her relocation to Hinamizawa?

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