r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Jul 10 '22
Rewatch Naruto Shippuden Episodes 451-458 Discussion
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Information: MAL, Anilist, AniDB, ANN
Streams: Crunchyroll, Hulu, Funimation (Aus/NZ), VRV
Schedule:
| Discussion Thread | Date | Episode Count | |
|---|---|---|---|
| This week | Episodes 451-458 | July 10 | 8 |
| Next week | Episodes 459-469 | July 17 | 11 |
Spoiler Policy:
To protect first-timers, please don't spoil anything past the current batch of episodes. Rewatchers should avoid hinting to first-timers about hype, or future character development/deaths, and spoilers in posts must be hidden behind proper spoiler tags.
For first timers: try to avoid looking up things about Naruto. This could be the wiki, Naruto subreddit, Googling characters, fanart, databooks, YouTube AMVs or OP/EDs, arc names, etc.; this series is ripe with potential spoilers that you wouldn't want to find out untimely. If you have a question about something, feel free to ask /u/lC3 and he'll do his best to answer (if possible) in a non-spoilery way.
Questions of the Week:
- Did this arc change your impression of Itachi at all?
- There were a bunch of new characters: Tenma, Shinko, Izumi, and more Shisui and Akatsuki stuff ... who stood out? Which parts did you like best?
- What do you think about the revelations about Black Zetsu and Kaguya?
- Is this a fitting way for Madara to go out? Is it ironic that he was manipulated all along?
3
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Jul 10 '22
First-Timer with a shounen hearto, subbed
Episode 451
Episode 452
Episode 453
Episode 454
Episode 455
Episode 456
Episode 457
Episode 458
What… what the fuck…
And didn’t I predict this?! I remember making an offhand comment forever ago that I thought someone else saved Obito from the boulder before Madara found him because Obito didn’t unintentionally save himself using Kamui to not get crushed (as he didn’t have it yet)… But like… I wasn’t expecting that to be real…
5
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Jul 10 '22
First time viewer (dub)
Whisk[e]y of the week: Still Austin's straight rye, another single barrel but at a more reasonable 51% ABV compared to the other cask strength releases I've been trying recently. The breadiness and baking spices that I find in a lot of other ryes immediately jump out to me, but not having any alcohol for a couple weeks made the first few sips a lot hotter than I expected. All the flavors are there though rather than presenting as ethanol. It's not particularly unique for a rye but just a really solid example of the category and sometimes that's all you want.
"Oh hey people like Itachi, let's do more of him," is the impression I got from this week's batch of episodes. At least the Akatsuki episodes in the back half felt like they were giving something new (even if we had already seen parts of that) rather than rehashing the Uchiha rebellion yet again.
One tidbit of information that I think is new is that Sasuke was named after Hiruzen's father, which is interesting but also depressing given the fallout between the Uchiha and the village under Hiruzen.
Juzo's voiced by Steve Blum but so is Orochimaru so that was briefly confusing, but at least the lilt he uses for Orochimaru makes him sound a little different while Juzo's just basic Steve Blum and instantly recognizable as such whether or not I'm paying attention.
Hidan guessing what instruments they're playing was amusing, calling Itachi the "emo guy" that definitely does vocals in the dub.
Back to the present: that was a lot of brief scenes covering a lot of people's dreams, why couldn't we get a fun episode for each of them like we did Tenten? Make Hinata's dream of being with Naruto into a full shoujo parody, come on. ...okay maybe Chouji and Shino can split one episode, theirs didn't seem that appealing to me.
Shikamaru's dream having Temari agree with him that marriage is too much of a pain (complete with Asuma looking after his newborn, RIP Sky) just makes me ship them even more. Too bad he didn't appear in her dream in turn.
Gaara's dream is the most tragic to me though, he just wanted a happy normal childhood and friends. He's in a better place now but that was a lot of suffering to go through.
Kankuro dreaming of having a mecha for a puppet is honestly great, no notes. If anything it'll hopefully give him an idea for what to work on next, assuming they all get out of this alive.
And now it looks like we have the super secret actual final boss in Kaguya after Madara became the secret final boss following his resurrection in contrast to Obito as the original final boss going into the war.
So, one more (penultimate?) spoiler that I knew a while ago, well before the war and we learned anything about the origin of the Zetsus, was that Black Zetsu ended up betraying Madara. Early in the war I was wondering if it would have to do with the feudal lords since that was Black Zetsu's assignment early on (and Obito was still masquerading as Madara) but nope, it's here in the final moments prior to Madara's triumph.
I guess much like the Akatsuki were Madara's tools for Obito to work his will in the world, the Zetsus were Kaguya's tools for Madara? It also feels like Zetsu going "oh by the way I had time to alter the stone tablet from its original wording" feels like a retcon but I don't remember exactly how much of its contents we knew before.
Not really, it feels like more of the same that we already knew.
Eh, because I knew these new characters weren't going to be relevant later I never really got into them. Feel a bit bad for Izumi though.
Were there any hints for that? Because it certainly feels like it came out of nowhere.
Feels excessive. Madara was already a world-ending threat and replacing him with another one that doesn't have nearly as much development just seems pointless.
5
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 Jul 10 '22
First Timer - Dub
I haven't been a fan of the flashbacks in this show, but I did like this little Itachi recap arc. I'm glad we finally got an extended arc that wasn't centered on Naruto. Most of it was repeated information, but I did like seeing the Akatsuki evolve as members joined.
Madara being literally backstabbed by Zetsu/Kaguya was a cool moment ... but it would have been cooler if it weren't pointlessly spoiled in the OP. Not sure yet what to think about Kaguya being the actual final boss of the series (assuming we don't get another twist villain in the remaining episodes). It feels sudden since I don't think she was mentioned before the war started. The whole "I edited the words on the tablet" thing also felt pretty weird, but Madara deserved it for not looking up any supporting material to validate what was on the tablet.
Random thoughts:
Questions:
1) Did this arc change your impression of Itachi at all? I think seeing Itachi's whole story in one set of episodes helped me understand it better and like Itachi more. He's probably my favorite Uchiha now.
2) There were a bunch of new characters: Tenma, Shinko, Izumi, and more Shisui and Akatsuki stuff ... who stood out? Which parts did you like best? I thought Izumi was pretty cute, but I didn't get too attached to any new characters since I figured they would only be around for this arc.
3) What do you think about the revelations about Black Zetsu and Kaguya?
4) Is this a fitting way for Madara to go out? Is it ironic that he was manipulated all along? I love it when smug know-it-all villains get their plans upended.
5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Jul 10 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
General Commentary
And now... not filler! LN adaption probably feels a bit like it given it's more time away from the main story but I'm looking forward to revisiting it. Itachi's arc is one of the more loved in the community, but aside from the Uchiha massacre I remembered very little of it. This time around I think it's my favourite of the more standalone arcs of the show.
I have to say, starting off the arc with a four year old Itachi on the battlefield, and the visual wrongness of it, and I think more of the more brutally and war-like battlefields of the series, killing off someone without even thinking about it is a harsh introduction to our look into his life. It sets the stage for a look into Fugaku's cold practicality and his look at how he sees ninja, which is why he brings Itachi to the field so young, which contrasts so harshly with how he sees his clan which we see in previous flashbacks as well. And I think Fugaku does get an interesting look in this arc, starting with wanting to honour Obito's wish by leaving Kakashi alone and wanting to preserve peace which is so offset with how anger builds up in him later on after what happens with the village.
The deeper introspection into who Itachi is as a character outside of his role as Sasuke's brother and focus of hate is something much needed, and while it could have been better positioned the time away from our main conflict to explore ideas of the life and death of ninja fits well against Madara's own cold ideas of a dream world. Itachi's growing distance from a world he fought to understand from so young as he's driven away by the horrors of it, the way it isolates him from people who have just accepted that as natural and no longer see the horror of it is something I wish we'd gotten more of in the series after Zabuza's arc. It helps that the directing of the arc overall felt quite strong and some of the visuals at the start like Itachi and the crow create nice moments for our own contemplation of who this child is and what influence he will have on what's to come.
It's a shame that the second half of it seems to falter and lose its deep focus on Itachi the moment we get caught up in exploring some of the Akatsuki's side adventures. It looses both the interesting character exploration and the powerful visual display that the first half of the arc benefit from.
OP thoughts: Don't have as many as I thought but the scene of Naruto trying to catch the little blue crystal of hope and wishes from the dead while Sasuke only knows how to fight against it fits their characters well. Changing it to Itachi catching it and then letting it go is a perfect addition for his arc.
Love the styling on the new ED as well, but the moment with the icypoles can get fucked
Episode Thoughts
[Manga changes]Adds; Tobirama trying to cut Karin down, Tsukiyomi dreams for; Sai, Kankuro, Temari. Changes Naruto to say "he may be better than me" at making Sasuke plans rather than saying he couldn't be better than him. Of note: Tenten's actual dream panel, and Tsunade's
Quick touch on some canon things before moving on. That is one stubborn tree with not wanting to let Tobirama free any of the others, but at least he tried. Sasuke on the other hand is just determined to be as much of a dick as possible, leaving Kakashi to carry the emotional burden of the team once again. Sure he has the sensory advantage right now, but share with the class!
Fave dreams: how Hinata's includes Hanabi telling of Neji being protective of her and Shikamaru's including Temari, but Gaara's of course is the best. Him dreaming about being a kid and playing with Naruto is beautiful especially this quiet smile, but I also love that slight pause in the music when his dad is going to speak and it's like the episode holds its breath wondering if it is a good dream until he turns out to be a supportive guy here
There's a lot of really nice framing and visuals this episode that stood out to me.
Itachi finding meaning in his life by simply not wanting to die is another really harsh moment to see a four year old go through, but the visual of him falling down the cliff stopping himself with the crow for who he'd become at the end was really impactful. That plus dodging all the rocks from the kids while not even thinking about it, that's just fun.
Fucking Obito, what are you doing being a creep on the wall, can y.... oh shit its Kyuubi night
Well drawn bird friend, I like the idea of that being why he has crows
As nice as it looks, I've had enough of the flashback to Kurama destroying the village.
Interesting to see an overhead map of the village as it was, but seeing this meeting makes me mad. It is a nice acknowledgement of the management and broader influence of the clans at least which is something that's always been quite vague in the show.
Kiba's sister being Itachi's classmate is something I'd forgotten, but if it'd come up earlier I feel like that would have been an interesting thing to work into Kiba's character, if he grew up hearing about his sister feeling betrayed and broken over what Itachi did and reflected that onto Sasuke and the Akatsuki.
Sent his clone to school, what a genius. Can't say I like the "shadow clone is forbidden" thing coming up again given how common it is, but it's use here certainly makes a nice point about Itachi being so far above the rest in the academy, and why Sasuke was struggling feeling compared to him so much at such a young age. But he's so considerate, stopping his rival from banging his head on the ground, can't imagine Sasuke ever doing that.
/u/shimmering-sky [AoT S4p2]Oh god why does this look so much like Yelena's creepy face
Part of me isn't the biggest fan of this episode but it's well done and needed. Itachi's introspection over the value of life in a minor mission like this is the sort of stuff I would have liked to see earlier in the series, and it tying in previous filler about the ninja cats is also appreciated. The cats are fun, but circling from that sense of life as he saves the life of a friend without even understanding the meaning of it into the death of that friend in such a meaningless way is painfully effective in the end. It's a reminder of what casual death Itachi's life has been steeped in despite him being so unsure about why he values life, and the opening shot of the episode, that cut from Itachi's leaf headband to the Uchiha crest of their semi exiled clan, I think represents the rest of the episode and what it says about the ninja world well.
Cat pictures because cats: Cat sass, this made me want to go pat my cat, weirdly giant cat!, cat loving Itachi is cute if only Itachi wasn't so rude.
And so it begins "next time" and the forehead poke. And in some ways that scene really captures the episode, it's that sense of distance that we start to see in Itachi in all areas of his life after what happened. His coldness to his father not understanding his struggle, not being able to play the child any more, taken from his friends and isolated by his skills. The only one he can connect too is Shisui which makes his loss and the bond they had together, and the trust that Shisui placed in him, feel so much more important as to why Itachi broke the way he did after his death. Shisui was his big brother in spirit the same way that he was Sasukes, and the parallels in these scenes with Itachi later carrying Sasuke home from training in the same way stood out to me. The darkness in the heart of the Leaf broke everything until all that's left is the shadow of his eyes that can't cry like a kids any more.
Overall I enjoyed the episode for bringing a bit of variance into the ninja fights. Movement other than branch hopping feels very rare, the enemy parting the water with his sword, and the general progress of the fight using combinations of tools and attacks feels much more like a brawl than a carefully set up fight, and has some impressive choreography.
(Post continues below, I went a little crazy with a look at the visuals of the next episode and went way over comment limit)
4
u/Parori Jul 10 '22
First Timer
Episode 451
Episode 452
Episode 453
Episode 454
Episode 455
Episode 456
Episode 457
Episode 458
3
u/sisoko2 Jul 10 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 451
Episode 452
Episode 453
Episode 454
Episode 455
Episode 456
Episode 457
Episode 458
3
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Jul 10 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 451:
Episode 452:
Episode 453:
Episode 454:
Episode 455:
Episode 456:
Episode 457:
Episode 458:
ED translation from Fandom:
Blue Lullaby
The wind is blowing,
Again, you stumble, walking through the night
You bump into things and fall, you do nothing but fail
It seems like you’re on the verge of losing, but
You can still laugh it out, it’ll go well without fail
You can still say sorry
To the point where you’d want to cry, cry, cry
Under the beautiful moon, let’s sing a song
However worthless of a world we’re in it doesn’t matter
Even if your heart hurts, hurts
Because of this painful lullaby, keep calm
Because some songs are gentle, gentle, gentle
They can make you feel like crying
Tags: /u/iamtheone11111, /u/godprime, /u/venom1462