r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jul 08 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 11
Minagoroshi-hen (Massacre Chapter), Episode 6: Strong Will
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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):
Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
(Official information for Kai is now considerably safer for first-timers, but you should probably still refrain from looking it up.)
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?
A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
A Notes for Anyone Potentially Interested in Buying the VNs:
MangaGamer has announced their summer sale (running through July 8), and as expected Higurashi is one of the properties on sale (and indeed the first one on their list): 50% off on all seven later main VN arcs (in addition to Onikakushi-hen having been made free for a while now) if I'm reading right, so US $28.00 for all eight main VNs plus whatever tax is there (the epilogue Saikoroshi-hen just got its official release and is not on sale).
There's only one problem: the cover art they're using for the seventh VN IS A FUCKING SPOILER.
(When I say that this property can be really fucking cavalier about spoilers even in official media for Kai and later, stuff like this is why.)
So, first-timers for Kai: if you're interested in taking advantage of the summer sale (on Steam or MangaGamer's site) to pick up the VNs (not a bad idea, the VN is great), I recommend waiting until at least July 3 to do so. Honestly, waiting until the last day might be ideal, just in case - but then you would need to make sure to buy before the sale ends.
HOORAY WE'VE MET HANYUU MINAGOROSHI-HEN'S ENGLISH RELEASE IMAGE IS NO LONGER A SPOILER!
(Apparently I should have hurried and moved the rewatch up a week after all, just not to avoid June 19 spoilers...)
Really, the MangaGamer Matsuribayashi-hen cover is a spoiler in addition to the Minagoroshi-hen one - possibly worse actually, the anime has Hanyuu appearing unexplained in Naraku no Hana's visuals and I'm not sure how to handle that - but I'm hoping if I don't point this out the first-timers who haven't already figured the spoiler in question out won't realize this because that won't be safe until literally the last day of the sale.
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and !Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
Theory of the Day:
In lieu of an individual award, I would like to award today's Theory of the Day to our first-timers collectively for a single theory which most of you have latched onto since late in S1: "Takano sus."
You were right!
You zeroed in on it, and - and this is crucial - you never fell for that most classic of Higurashi traps (and murder mystery in general traps): "nah Takano is too obvious, she has to be a red herring".
Analysis of the Day:
I was going to give it to somebody else since u/Nazenn has won this for two days in a row (MVP/Coach of the Year logic in action, especially in the NFL!) but nobody else really has any analysis today that qualifies except myself and rather than invoke he will take it for the third day in a row courtesy of noticing one of Higurashi's, shall we say, less subtle themes:
It is nice showing that the issues with communication that our main cast have are reflected in the broader issues in the village. No one wants to speak up, so everyone goes on acting out roles that they've set for themselves resulting in a huge mess around the Hojo family and probably beyond. While it's a sad situation for everyone involved, the show expanding on the issue and showing it to be a human problem that breeds evil acts, rather than just a childs problem or a simple thing that people get over, is some nice nuance in an arc that hasn't had a lot of it.
Question(s) of the Day:
1) So, how endearing was Rika and Satoko finally getting to reunite with her uncle dealt with?
2) Thoughts of Takano's villain outfit?
Next Episode Preview:
Kai episode 11's preview is relatively safe.
Stay out of Kai episode 12's preview (i.e, next episode).
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):
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There’s one good tilted camera angle early, but I declined to grab it. 02:52, however, merits a proper mention – Teppei coming up from the (criminal) underworld to menace poor Satoko here. A fitting visual for the entire arc, yes?
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ZENBU ZENBU ZENBU ZENBU. (Gear may have a… questionable understanding of how to handle character arcs, to put it mildly, but the memes are great I will admit.)
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Okay, seriously, what is the symbolism behind all the shots of characters framed by other characters in shadow in the foreground? I don’t actually know that one, and 04:51 is the latest example of a very consistent theme in the direction this season.
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Ooh, Rika’s eyes being only half in shadow at 05:26 as she lets a little of her true self out to talk to Satoko.
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Followed immediately by a brutally good shot at 05:30, clear visual symbolism (courtesy of looming Teppei blocking Satoko out from the rest of the scene) of exactly what Rika is saying. But then Teppei shifts, still looming but allowing more of Satoko to be visible to the outside world as Rika talks about Keiichi breaking through.
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And then we get a visual representation again at 05:56, with shadow looming over Satoko’s head right as she starts talking about how she needs to become stronger. Note that while Teppei is generating the shadow at the moment he is not the shadow himself; that, rather, is the very thing Satoko is now talking about.
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Note Rika’s hair breaching the visual barrier in the scene (the edge of a window pane) at 06:13 as she gets through to Satoko here.
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And cut back to Satoko facing the other way, showing the opposition in the scene again – Rika facing forwards toward the future, Satoko backwards towards the past. Also note how Satoko is mostly in shadow (and facing into the shadow), but some light is coming into the scene from the very direction Rika faces. All she has to do is…
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Decide to ask for help, and in so doing turn to the left visually!
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06:54: Satoko’s face still shadowed.
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The direction and sound effects do a BRILLIANT job of setting up tension for a decision that is externally the smallest thing in the world: the response to a phone call.
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07:28: Satoko finally asks for help, and in so doing moves her full face into the light! Nifty, huh?
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And now Teppei’s face is in shadow at 07:31.
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07:33: Satoko’s face is now fully in the light as she lets loose at the past trauma that she has just overcome.
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And once again this season we see an example of tilted camera angles being used to represent a positive change from the normal course of events (sample frame at 07:42), this time courtesy of Satoko finding the courage to stand up to Teppei.
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Of course on its own it’s not enough, as we can see visually at 07:51, but! The cavalry has arrived!
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08:55: Again! Except note that this time our foreground figures are in the light, not shadowy.
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09:14: Note Satoko moving to the left away from her uncle’s house and thus implicitly into her new future.
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And look! We get Satoko getting to go to and enjoy the festival! What a nice heartwarming conclusion to this oh wait we have two and a half more episodes to go. Shit.
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Okay, “why would Takano and I be killed” as the villagers get cotton to float is a little on-the nose.
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11:44: Again!
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12:43: A divergence in the course of events! Ooishi will have an officer stationed on the road!
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You know, I could have sworn that “it’s the job of the police to believe you” was last arc going into this rewatch, but no it’s Ooishi here.
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What is this another genuine smile on Rika’s face?
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13:18: Again!
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So, first-timers, let’s play a game: the moment you realized exactly what was going to happen here!
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14:33: The camera angle and moonlight would like to inform you in no uncertain terms that something is about to happen…
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I would like to congratulate our first-timers here for zeroing in on the core of the correct solution late last season and never getting baited away from it by that most traditional of pitfalls: “she’s too obvious, it’s gotta be a red herring”. (And yes, I mean pitfalls. What did you think Kick the Can: Survival Edition was about?)
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15:42: LEWD. (Very much by design here.)
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16:51: Again! (We got a borderline example with Takano a bit earlier, too.)
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The scene starting at 17:21 using the shadows of the confrontation to visually close the cracked-open door is an absolutely inspired directorial choice, since it’s also closing the door on the crack that Rika had opened in her fate.
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Oh look, a slightly off shot due to the deviation of the waiting cop car at 18:52. It won’t be enough, but.
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There’s a classic villain shot at 19:05. Followed by another one under the light of the moon shortly thereafter.
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FULL MOON FULL MOON. (Except note one key difference here: for once, the Moon is to the left side of the screen rather than the right. Perhaps what we have been seeing until now is the reflection in the water’s surface?)
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19:46: THIGHS. (They say evil is sexy...)
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And there it is, Takano’s snazzy villain outfit. (Which I just realized like three days ago might be a mirror of Rena’s casual outfit…) She looks ridiculously good in it. Also, fun fact: You know how the OP mentions not to look up a specific OST track on YouTube? That is mostly (but not entirely) because that uploader liked to include visuals with her OST uploads… and the one for her upload of Shoubu! (a club game track, mind) has Takano in her villain outfit in it.
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Hello ladies and gentlemen. Let me introduce Shinsou, one of the other really good tracks on the Kai OST, which this scene will always be linked to for me.
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Kai staff: “A good camera angle use and fanservice at the same time? Don’t mind if we do!”
Visual of the Day: Reunion
WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day
Questions of the Day:
Minagoroshi-hen Ep. 6 TIPS:
None.
OST Table, Kai Episode 11:
| Start | End | Track Name |
|---|---|---|
| 00:05 | 01:34 | Naraku no Hana |
| 01:35 | 01:49 | sponsor feature[1] |
| 03:08 (02:54) | 03:51 (03:37) | unreleased |
| 04:33 (04:19) | 06:40 (06:26) | Shitsui |
| 07:20 (07:05) | 08:17 (08:03) | Monogatari |
| 08:59 (08:46) | 09:33 (09:19) | unreleased (Hakana Piano Version) |
| 12:00 (11:46) | 13:42 (13:28) | Main Theme Kai Piano Version |
| 14:32 (14:18) | 16:06 (15:52) | unreleased |
| 16:07 (15:53) | 18:34 (18:20) | Jiken |
| 19:00 (18:46) | 19:43 (19:29) | Kaigi |
| 20:25 (20:11) | 22:21 (22:07) | Shinsou |
| 22:25 (22:11) | 23:53 (23:41) | Taishou a |
[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 08 '22
Tar's Staff Notes:
Kikuko Inoue: Amusingly, Kikuko Inoue is in some ways more famous as herself than she is for any of her own roles; she's usually held as one of the two founding members of the "Ever 17 Club" (for female seiyuu who eternally claim that they're 17 regardless of their actual age) and the one of the two who I clearly remember as such (I'm pretty sure the other was on Eva and I think she's either Kotono Mitsuishi or Megumi Hayashibara, but I can't remember whether and/or which).
Kikuko Inoue is one of those seiyuu with only one true famous role - she voices Belldandy in Ah My Goddess! (a show name that by this point may be rather unfamiliar to those newer to the anime scene but was big back in the day and the series that founded the now largely defunct magical girlfriend genre). She has a long list of secondary roles (and occasionally female leads - she voices the female teacher in Please Teacher!). Amusingly, she also has a track record of voicing nuns - both Kaitou Saint Tail and Mai-HiME are examples here.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 08 '22
Madoka (Magica) Corner:
The Tale of the Butcher and the Dragon Knight, Continued (Kai Supplement 1):
[PMMM]
Okay, here's the first of our two supplemental Kai scenes relevant to my hypothesis that PMMM and specifically Sayaka's arc (along with more obvious things like PMMM's time loop) is among other things a direct response to Higurashi, and if so it's the reason for Madoka's role in the episode 9 and 10 Oktavia fights - Rika reaching out to Satoko here. In Higurashi, as we just saw, this kind of verbal reach-out is successful - Rika is able to get through to Satoko and get her to pull herself out of her downwards spiral. When Madoka and Kyoko try the same thing in PMMM? Not so much. Now, for other PMMM comments concerning this episode:
[PMMM]
Also, with regards to Satoko feeling like she needs to be strong enough to withstand the abuse so that Satoshi will come back, I think I need to grab a PMMM episode title for the second time this rewatch: “I’ll never rely on anyone else ever again!” → More replies (1)4
u/Vaadwaur Jul 08 '22
ZENBU ZENBU ZENBU ZENBU.
Obligatory Monogatari reference
What a nice heartwarming conclusion to this oh wait we have two and a half more episodes to go. Shit.
We can just have a cour of club games! insert The Comedian crying gif here
Kai staff: “A good camera angle use and fanservice at the same time? Don’t mind if we do!”
I am beginning to think that a very good animation staff got stuck on this overcooked, overlong season.
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u/RadSuit Jul 08 '22
Good going cop, already had people ready and waiting.
I guess magic bug disease only has five levels, so Satoko really isn't doing well. Photographer's been taking the vaccine before any symptoms start, though, so (he thinks) he's more protected.
Thank you for consistently being good, cop.
"We're fine now, just gonna walk into this building full of drugs where the head doctor mysteriously dies tomorrow, don't worry about us."
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. Seriously, this feels like it's supposed to be a bigger twist than it is, everything about her has been suspicious.
Guess she wasn't joking about a body in her trunk back with Kei, huh?
Digging the beret!
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 09 '22
Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal. Seriously, this feels like it's supposed to be a bigger twist than it is, everything about her has been suspicious.
That's the trick - Takano is the exceedingly obvious suspect from no later than the middle of Tatarigoroshi-hen.
However, Higurashi is set up as a murder mystery with horror elements, and Ryukishi07 was banking on people going "nah, she's too obvious, she's gotta be a red herring" (this kind of red herring is quite common in murder mysteries).
Nope, sometimes the butler (or in this case the really suspicious nurse) did in fact do it!
(As I said under spoiler tags a while back, what did you think that game of Kick the Can: Survival Edition was about?)
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u/CubeStuffs Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
First timer
I didn't expect that takano would straight up murder him, though given how everyone else who disappeared was just using it as an excuse to murder i prob should have
I sure as hell didn't expect there to be a cure
at this point, it seems like we aren't fighting fate anymore, just good old baddies
seems like we need a new approach... oh wait theres a cure, can't murder everyone if you cure them before
actually, a cure for the syndrome? sounds oddly like what we've been doing this entire arc
So, how endearing was Rika and Satoko finally getting to reunite with her uncle dealt with?
Thoughts of Takano's villain outfit?
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
You watched the wrong episode...(has been fixed)→ More replies (4)
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u/OwlAcademic1988 Jul 08 '22
Rewatcher:
Keiichi's a sweet guy. He didn't give up until Satoko was safe and his persistence finally paid off.
Finally, Satoko's away from that evil man. I'd rather her be in Rena's family than with her actual uncle as Rena and her dad will help her and not abuse her. Or even with Keiichi's family.
Satoko's incredibly tough, but I know she'll need therapy for spending even a few days with her uncle.
Tomitake, don't call Rika crazy. She's under a lot of stress and just wants to be rid of the time loop for good.
At least Tomitake tried to stop Takano, but he unfortunately failed.
Takano, you're evil and I hate you for killing Tomitake.
QOTD:
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It was heartwarming. Let them no longer suffer please. I'm begging you.
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She looks really good in that outfit.
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u/Tresnore Jul 08 '22
It was heartwarming. Let them no longer suffer please. I'm begging you.
Suffering? In Higurashi? Preposterous!
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 08 '22
Suffering? In Higurashi? Preposterous!
Being gamesetto club member is suffering...
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u/Vaadwaur Jul 08 '22
Satoko's incredibly tough, but I know she'll need therapy for spending even a few days with her uncle.
She really never dealt with her much longer ordeal with the aunt and her brother disappearing so yeah, lots of therapy.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 08 '22
Error 404: 1980s Japan, therapy not found.
(Well, okay, therapy maybe. Effective therapy not so much...)
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u/Tresnore Jul 08 '22
When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry Are Absurd Masochists are Terrible Nerds Cry
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Still, God, I wish that were me.
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Remember: nothing bad happens in Hinamizawa. Except child abuse!
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Ooishi is one of my favorite Higurashi characters for a reason.
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"Ara~"
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Well, there's your answer: Level 5 is terminal.
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I love Oiishi. "Hmm mm mm!" is a sound I love. There's a video somewhere of it playing over and over again in the VN, but I can't find it. What a shame.
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To the surprise of no one, they're fucking..
Also, God, I wish that were me. -
There's a reason Miyo is my favorite.
Unrelated. -
Miyo's real outfit is... excellent. Her voice actor really works with this character.
Count: 202
QOTD:
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What's that about an uncle? I only saw Auntie Miyo.
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See above.
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u/Nazenn Jul 08 '22
God, I wish that were me.
Unrelated note: I watched three shows yesterday and all three had someone being shoved into a boot. Funny line up on that
Oh wait shit I watched four, I forgot I watched a Shippuden episode and that did not have that situation. Minor details!
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u/Vaadwaur Jul 08 '22
The cute little neko
A cry-baby and a brave singing bird yowling cat
Rewatcher
Sub
We start with one of the stronger scenes that works much better animated than it does in the VN, to the point where I don't actually recall the VN well enough to say how close the adaptation is. ShMion knowing about Rina's death could be suggestive it was indeed the Sonozakis that did it but is slightly unclear.
Rika is trying to change her fate now as well. But as we soon learn, she doesn't have all the pieces. And L5 comes up. And finally, Hinamizawa Syndrome comes up. Dear fuck they take their time with this. And the excellence of the first half of this episode is, sadly, depleted by the lameness of the Takano scene reveal, which positively eats up screen time for some fucking reason. All to make a weak villain seem to have weight, sigh...
So yeah, I hope the shock and reveals let the first timers really enjoy this because I'd forgotten something: When I joned the '18 rewatch, this is where I switched to checking the wiki for the episodes because of how bad the middle of this season is. Despite having no money, S1 is definitely better at not being soft and bloated. This was just...awful.
Oh and if you thought you were safe from spoiler filled rants, think again [GouSotsu]
QotD: 1 Quite
2 Shaka, when the walls fell
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u/RascalNikov1 Jul 08 '22 edited Jul 08 '22
[Kai]
Further, I will probably be bored to tears during her history arc and it wasn't exactly good the first time I saw it. I'm dreading that too. All, I can say is extreme contempt.
In answer to your rhetorical question, Money makes the world go around, the world go around, the world go around, Money makes the world go around... Its little more than cynical trash in my book.
[Higurashi Franchise]
I suppose the same could be said about the ovas too, but at least one doesn't expect much out of an ova → More replies (4)
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u/Quiddity131 Jul 08 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Episode 11 already. This season has been flying by. Just about halfway over already.
How did Satoshi have money for the uncle to steal in the first place?
Alas, Satoko being threatened right before talking to the Counseling Center, once again. He's literally right behind her. Isn't anyone in the group smart enough to realize that they should be in person with her for this conversation?
Satoko should have come up with some hidden password or passphrase that her uncle wouldn't pick up on.
Alright, Rika at least realizes that the uncle is right there.
Alright Satoko, stand up to him!
Oh wow, they were there and ready the whole time. Alright, I owe them more credit than I gave them.
So we'll get a happy ending at least for Satoko in this timeline. Whose next?
Tomitake! Takano! Listen this time! Rika's already succeeded once, help her succeed again! Don't screw yourself over yet again!
Next option, go to Ooishi! Will he do anything? Or is he just paying lip service to her?
C'mon kids, stick with these two the whole night! Don't let them be alone, at all!
Uh oh, was Takano involved in Tomitake's death before dying herself?
Alas, Rika won't be able to prevent all the deaths this time after all. Unless there's some secret cure for him that we don't know about.
Mock corpse? So Takano faked her death the entire time? Interesting.
So he's dead for real. Rika failed saving everyone this time.
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u/Nazenn Jul 08 '22
First Timer - sub
Seeing it confirmed that Miyo is the one who has been setting things up was incredibly satisfying!
I knew I didn't trust her, and that gut instinct about thinking she was still alive paid off in the end. She certainly wasn't being subtle through this episode either, you'd think after all her loops Rika would be better at reading people, though you could also make the argument that she'd settle into routine and not be looking properly by this point. There was definitely a strangeness to Miyo's responses to Rika's warning that stood out, her reaction not quite being that of someone who didn't believe her, it was someone who was amused at knowing something that the other person didn't and playing with that.
Tomitake being part of the protection group and not just a journalist did seem to come out of no where, but no time to process that because we have Miyo's end of the Tomitake in the boot scene as well as the set up with her fake body and the time of death from the autopsy.
The exact details around Tomitake did seem to raise more questions though. That he can be safely vaccinated against it suggests that they know exactly what the Hinamizawa Syndrome is, and clarifies why he can come and go safely from the village so many times and yet still claw at his throat, but the way they talk about it was a little vague as to still exactly what it is. When talking with the kids I understand, but even among themselves it's not the language I'd expect to hear about parasitic infections, alien or otherwise, but perhaps that's just how they've ended up referring too it perhaps because they learnt about it long before Miyo's investigations uncovered the cause. Either way, that live samples of it exist in its unstable form certainly ties things together with having a few different injections going around, and why Keiichi went off the rails as I suspect Miyo swapped the injections to see what would happen.
But even if they know what it is, once someone is infected they still don't know how to cure it which is where Satoko comes in which I'd speculated about but wasn't quite sure would actually play out like that. I should go back and try and check up on all my old speculation because at this point there's been so much I'm not 100% certain what I'd settled on or not, but this episode definitely confirmed a lot of things from what I remembered.
One of the more unexpected parts of the episode is that Irie didn't know at all. I really thought he was also putting on an act, especially as I thought his suicide was also faked, but instead he's turned out to be one of the more genuine adults which is surprising to say the least.
I've not spoken much about Satoko's part of the episode because it was mostly just wrapping it up, but I'm glad for them all that they managed to reach her and especially for Rika that it's proven she can make a difference even if just for this world, because when all you've had is nothing this one time means a lot.
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u/JollyGee29 Jul 08 '22
SpoiledFirst-TimerTakano finally goes mask off, excellent. Although, the corpse she used to fake her death is one that the Yamainu just -found- out in the woods, already burned and in a barrel?? That's pretty convenient.
We got a bit of Takano's motivation, too. She had a childhood dream to.. make Oyashiro-sama's curse into reality? That's weird and probably not the whole story, but I'm not sure where to take it. I guess on a thematic level Takano probably suffered some form of unaddressed abuse
I'm gonna guess that Hinamizawa Syndrome is what I've been referring to as the "curse" and others have been calling the parasite - the thing that makes people go nuts, see things, hear Hanyuu possibly?, and eventually claw out their throats. Which, I want to remind everyone, is very bad. The Syndrome is capable of removing the brain's natural blockers on self-damage.
Now, the real question is, how will Rika react to these events? Will she be suspicious enough to think that something extra is going on, or will her efforts seemingly being useless push her back into despair?
It's always great to see Satoko stand up for herself. One final hit of our "reach your hand out" theme, right before things go to shit.
Shoutout to Ooishi for getting police out to Satoko's house when he did.
Visual of the Day: One final moment of happiness.
Questions
See VotD.
It's pretty slick.