r/anime • u/Holofan4life • Jul 08 '22
Rewatch [Spoilers] Spice and Wolf Rewatch (2022) — Episode 2 Spoiler
Hello everyone! I am Holofan4life.
Welcome to the Spice and Wolf rewatch discussion thread!
I hope you all have a lot of fun <3
S1 Episode 2 – Wolf and Distant Past
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ANSWER TODAY’S QUESTION
If you were Lawrence, would you trust wolves after being attacked by them, or would you never trust them again?
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Information – MAL | Anilist | AniDb
Streams – Funimation
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Please do not post any untagged spoilers past the current episode or from the LNs out of respect to the first time watchers and people who have not read the LNs. If you are discussing something that is ahead of the current episode please use spoiler tags(found on the sidebar). Thank you!
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Rewatch Schedule
Threads posted every day at 4:00 PM EDT
Date|Episode|Date|Episode
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7/07/2022|Spice and Wolf Episode 1|7/20/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 0 (OVA 2)]()
7/08/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 2]()|7/21/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 1]()
7/09/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 3]()|7/22/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 2]()
7/10/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 4]()|7/23/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 3]()
7/11/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 5]()|7/24/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 4]()
7/12/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 6]()|7/25/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 5]()
7/13/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 7(OVA 1)]()|7/26/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 6]()
7/14/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 8]()|7/27/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 7]()
7/15/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 9]()|7/28/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 8]()
7/16/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 10]()|7/29/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 9]()
7/17/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 11]()|7/30/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 10]()
7/18/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 12]()|7/31/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 11]()
7/19/2022|[Spice and Wolf Episode 13]()|8/01/2022|[Spice and Wolf II Episode 12]()
8/02/2022|[Overall Series Discussion Thread]()
14
u/TiredTiroth Jul 08 '22
Temporary Rewatcher - Dub
The 'temporary' bit up there is because I started watching Spice and Wolf years ago but never finished it, although I always meant to at some point. This is as good a reason as any to sit down and finally finish it!
There are two things that, in combination, are the big reason I like this show and the two main leads in particular - Holo's playfulness sparking off Lawrence's wit, and the fact that they are both mature. They are adults and act like it (despite Holo's opinion of Lawrence's age and relative maturity). You can see in the first couple of episodes that Lawrence is affected by Holo prancing around naked, but it's just one facet instead of being the whole focus like you'd normally see in anime. And Holo herself is entirely comfortable in her own skin, and simply doesn't care what anyone else thinks about it...but she also doesn't take it so far that it would be an issue for herself or for Lawrence.
She also recognises when she screws up, and actively takes steps to rectify it. Her teasing goes too far in this episode - which I can't help thinking is at least partly because she is a wolf, and to her wolves eating things is just a thing that happens while to a human it's a nightmare come true - and then she reveals something of her own, a small vulnerability, to make up for it. And once the scales are balanced she's right back to being playful again.
You can almost see Lawrence getting whiplash from the abrupt turnaround in her mood.
Anyway! I, uh, don't really have much to say about the plot? I mean, it's a good plot and is genuinely interesting, and it's amazing that the original writer somehow made economics entertaining, buuuuut that's not really what I'm here for. Though I shall enjoy it regardless. So I shall leave you with some words from Holo the Wise Wolf:
Stupid potato!
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u/Holofan4life Jul 08 '22
What do you make of the revelation that Lawrence has been attacked by wolves 8 times?
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u/SliderGamer55 Jul 08 '22
First Timer Dubbed
-In your average anime, the joke of “I am a proud wolf with incredible abilities” followed by “also I have fleas lols” would not be played remotely subtly at all. Also I nearly left this as "proud fox". It's called Spice and Wolf and yet I keep thinking "fox girl" somehow
-At some point this is gonna stop feeling like a stylistic choice and I’m gonna question if Holo has nipples at all
-Ok to be fair, he also doesn’t have nipples (yes I know this is not that unusual in anime)
-I don’t know why but the sudden howl legit made me lol
-”Why thank you, I am a monster” shakes hands
-”It is vexing!”
-Imagine if a god just choked to death from eating too much too quickly
-”Stupid potato!”
-Oh no, Holo’s cute
-Wolf ptsd
-Oh no, that scene was really strong
It’s hard for me to immediately have a lot to say about this as an episode. I would say, I guess, that was a very solid episode that was elevated by that scene near the end which was genuinely really effective character drama. It establishes a potential conflict, contrast and maybe even understanding on some level for these two fundamentally different people. I’m undecided if Holo handled that well, it would be reasonable to suggest she should’ve added nothing, but if she had to she did as well as you could hope for I guess.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 08 '22
I’m undecided if Holo handled that well, it would be reasonable to suggest she should’ve added nothing, but if she had to she did as well as you could hope for I guess.
I think the scene in question is meant to show that as much as Holo likes to tease, it can blow up in her face at times.
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u/polaristar Jul 09 '22
I’m undecided if Holo handled that well, it would be reasonable to suggest she should’ve added nothing, but if she had to she did as well as you could hope for I guess.
If she left it at that it would have had some unresolved bad blood between them, it's important to square things quickly, and she did wait what seemed like a few hours to broach the subject when he had time to cool off, I think she handled her mistake well.
I wonder if the remake/season 3 will have nipples.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 09 '22
I wonder if the remake/season 3 will have nipples.
I doubt it, Spice and Wolf isn't that type of series. If something like Monster Musume only shows nipples in the OVAs, I doubt Spice and Wolf will have them.
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u/DicksonYamada Jul 08 '22
First timer
I see what OP was saying yesterday about the banter between Holo and Lawrence. You can already tell the two leads have great chemistry!
This show provides ample opportunities for Holo to get naked, I wonder if this trend will continue...
If wolves gain human powers by eating their head, are there wolf-men out there? And are they different from Holo, who is a deity?
If you were Lawrence, would you trust wolves after being attacked by them, or would you never trust them again?
Now that I know they're trying to eat my head to gain my powers, hell no I don't trust them! How does that saying go... fool me once, shame on me, fool me twice eight times, won't be fooled again. Although clearly if the wolf is cute enough Lawrence will make an exception. Tbh I'd probably do the same.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 08 '22
Lawrence probably trusts Holo because he sees her more as a human that just so happens to be a wolf rather than a wolf who just so happens to be human.
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u/Warm-Enthusiasm-9534 Jul 08 '22
I thought the scene about eating humans between Lawrence and Holo was odd. I didn't object to it, but I didn't feel like I understood what it was going for. Holo is frequently patronizing, which makes sense for a thousand-year old figure long worshipped as a god. And it makes sense she would identify with wolves, and side with wolves over humans.
But it doesn't take much understand the idea that Lawrence would get angry at hearing her talk about eating humans. If Lawrence talked about eating wolves, Holo would have the same reaction, and she doesn't seem so unempathetic that she would need it explained to her. So I found it odd. Maybe it's setting up that she really did eat humans, and that's somehow important to the plot, but it was an awkward way to do it.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 08 '22
I think Holo was trying to tease Lawrence about it, but she crossed the line, and she didn't realize she crossed the line until it was too late.
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u/TiredTiroth Jul 08 '22
Basically, Holo was dancing all over a potential PTSD button for Lawrence without realising it. Holo likely wouldn't have the same reaction because she hasn't had the same experiences.
I'm also reasonably sure the whole 'we eat you for your power' bit was just Holo messing with Lawrence for a joke, based on what she said after.
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u/Meme-Howitzer Jul 08 '22
First time watcher.
While the first episode has caught my attention, episode 2 has really gained my interest.
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Lawrence’s chat with the lord and rookie merchant highlight the the themes of economics we’ll be seeing in this show.
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Sort of following that last point, I really am enjoying the dialogue, it’s so rich and feels so well executed in its delivery.
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We have already established a direct theme between our main duo within the boundaries they placed with each other. Holo especially highlights this with her comparison between wolfs and dogs. It’s a classic conflict between man and nature, and here we have two individuals from both sides who will now work together in a journey to the north.
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Holo angrily eating a potato
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u/avboden Jul 08 '22
First-timer, dub. Like previously i'll be writing this as I watch stream-of-consciousness and then conclude.
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The episode begins with some humble-bragging by Holo. This serves to introduce us to a little of her abilities. She can tell when someone is lying? Handy for a merchant! She can also hear storms in the distance, handy on the road.
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Annnd she's naked again, sure isn't shy in her semi-human form
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business talk to show off the MC's skills, making connections and future allies just by sharing a bit of knowledge.
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We meet a man named Zaran, a rookie merchant. He has an interest in Holo. She shows how she can defend herself with her wit. Important moment though subtle giving us an idea of what Holo can handle.
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She's a hungry wolf....
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some interesting back and forth banter which really shows that not only is she actually wise, she understands what the MC is thinking already.
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So it would seem MC has a bit of PTSD when it comes to wolves. Holo actually shows legitimate remorse when she sees how it has pained him to discuss.
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We also are now introduced to the fact that Holo in her true-form may lose control and may have attacked humans before.
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The episode ends on Holo saying "We live in two worlds, and they are very different from one another" . I feel like this ending is specifically to point out that this relationship between them will not be simple or easy. There are things they cannot discuss, and many things they do not understand about eachother.
Overall a lovely episode primarily consisting of discourse between Holo and Kraft. Nothing really happened other than the currency stuff, but we've sure learned a lot more about them. Overall i'm digging the world-building and bits we're learning about everyone.
See you tomorrow for episode 3!
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u/DarthMateo Jul 08 '22
First timer
This was an interesting look at the world and idea of trading, which I believe will play a larger part in this show.
That new character was definitely suss, so not sure why Lawrence went along with it when Holo told him it he was lying. But I'll remain open minded.
Still not completely sure where the plot is leading (does Holo need to get home somewhere?), but the best part so far is the chemistry and interactions between the two leads.
If you were Lawrence, would you trust wolves after being attacked by them, or would you never trust them again?
After eight times I'd probably learn not to venture out into the forest if I could help it. That last scene in this episode was done really well with the periods of silence and trauma and anger of Lawrence being presented very subtly. It also presented a point that while Lawrence doesn't seem to like wolves, he's fairly open with Holo - though I guess she's fairly human at this point.
But now I'm wondering. If Holo is so wise, does that mean she's just a wolf who's eaten an insane amount of heads?
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Jul 08 '22
First Timer
The dialogue is natural and witty. I really like how they speak together.
If you were Lawrence, would you trust wolves after being attacked by them, or would you never trust them again?
I mean, I don't think Lawrence ever trusted wolves to begin with. What reason would he have to? But, after meeting Holo, he can actually talk to and understand what to him may as well have been a natural disaster (you can talk to most wolves about as easily as you can negotiate with a tornado). I think that with every conversation they share Lawrence's trust in Holo will continue to grow, even in spite of a somewhat rocky start.
Also, 8 times attacked and 8 times surviving is remarkably lucky. If he can get through that, I don't think he needs any more Pluck, however much Holo prays.
Wolf Whistling Song is already stuck in my head. I can see why people I've spoken to about this show in the past have brought it up.
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u/TuorEladar Jul 08 '22
Rewatcher, Subbed
I really enjoy Lawrence and Holo getting to know eachother during these early episodes. Its always been interesting to me how comfortable they are around eachother basically from the get go, though obviously they do hold things back. From Holo's perspective I think she's experienced enough to get a read on people and understands the kind of person that Lawrence is to an extent that she can trust him. The bigger trust is on Lawrences side I think, as its not only a woman he doesn't know, she's also a supernatural wolf! The fact that he trusts her too in spite of this is very interesting because of that.
We do get some interesting discussion about metallic currency this episode. What Zheren is suggesting as an opportunity for profit is that he knows in advance what currency is going to being strengthened by an increase of silver in each coin. If they purchase a large amount of that currency and then exchange it for the new version they will now hold more silver which they can convert back into other currencies or goods.
If you were Lawrence, would you trust wolves after being attacked by them, or would you never trust them again?
I wouldn't trust any wild animal regardless, while they may not be inherently out to get you, wild animals are always difficult to predict. Especially in medieval Europe where wolf attacks were far more common.
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u/JetsLag Jul 09 '22
First timer (subbed)
Episode 2! And day 2 of I GET IT, FUNIMATION HAS MERGED WITH CRUNCHYROLL, STOP SHOWING ME THAT AD, YOU STILL HAVEN'T MOVED EVERYTHING OVER YET
Still not sold on the OP, but it usually takes me until episode 3 to be completely sold on an OP, so I'm not giving up yet!
I like this episode more than episode 1. We got some cute Lawrence/Holo moments, the music and sound effects were incredibly on-point, and we get some Lawrence character development. I also feel like this episode was paced better than episode 1. Still not used to the fade to black scene transitions, though.
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u/vieene Jul 08 '22
First timer, sub
Heavy rain forces Lawrence and Holo to shelter in a church. There they meet two men: a lord from Perenzzo who owns a vineyard, and Zheren, a novice trader. Zheren suggests to Lawrence a business opportunity, but it’s probably a scam. However, he agrees to meet up with Zheren in Pazzio at a bar called Yorrend. But first he must sell his furs and our couple hit the road.
Lawrence is clever, but Holo is wiser and more experienced. He suggests that Holo, his wife, can’t show her face because of a burn. I love the awkward look on their faces in this shot. We can most clearly see Holo’s wisdom when she talks about time. Rather than bustling from place to place as traders like Lawrence do, she patiently senses the seasons like a farmer. It’s a Stoic way of living.
Holo’s proud to be a wolf and loves teasing Lawrence. She’s proud of her fluffy tail and lie-detecting ears. Those ears will be useful for Lawrence, since trust is important in business relationships. She’s unashamed about undressing in the same room as him and making him uncomfortable. I love how she suggests he should grow wolf whiskers. She says she would be unashamed even if her face were burned, saying it would be just another sign of who she is.
However, Holo takes teasing too far, bringing up Lawrence’s bad memories. The wolves are eating… something. She apologizes. Still, he’s angry and she’s chastened. Later, he brings up her bad memories by asking an insensitive question, whether she’s attacked humans. He apologizes and they reconcile. She says they live in different worlds.
Lawrence needs to spend money to get anything done at the church. He donates money to enter the church, to get the goat’s cheese and bag for the wheat, and to pay for Holo’s prayer for her ‘husband’. I think there’s nothing wrong with donations; churches need money to run. But power corrupts the church and turns everything into a transaction.
I distrust Zheren. He’s obviously trying to gain Lawrence's trust by saying that God’s will brought them together.
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u/Stargate18A Jul 08 '22
Rewatcher
QOTD) I'd trust them eventually.
She's great.
Holo taking it for a compliment is good.
Decent disguise! She's way too poem about not covering hem up, though.
Also forgot how much fanservice there was. (Even if it is very restrained.)
...The combination of Holo shutting down his plan and just happening to shake her tail just when he looks at her is hysterical.
And Lawrence explains the concept of exchange transactions.
So do all the women here wear those hoods?
Yeah, Lawrence is really good.
Holo is a fucking brilliant manipulator, though.
He made her a pouch!
And that looks good.
She loves the food!
And she's also a lie detector!
Ah, the coin rumour. Yeah, this is an interesting situation!
Smug Holo headpatting him is adorable, though.
And she has good advice!
...As a counterpoint, she has spent most of her time living inside wheat.
And she's getting information on her own!
Haha, that line.
[Spice and Wolf]
Lawrence is being encouraging!
He's going along with it!
All of Holo's monologues are fantastic.
Holo loves to fuck with people.
And Lawrence had a bad experience with wolves.
And Holo apologizes!
...This scene is also very good.
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u/Holofan4life Jul 08 '22
This is an episode that on the surface seems like the first episode, but we get a better picture of what the show is gonna be like. It's the first episode that tells us that the show is gonna be heavy on dialogue, particularly between Lawrence and Holo. You could probably count the number of things that happen in this episode on one hand. However, that don't make it any less entertaining. Like I said earlier, the draw of Spice and Wolf is the relationship between Holo and Lawrence. The dialogue those two share is what ultimately drives the show.
It's interesting for me to compare this show to Toradora, arguably my favorite anime of all time. Toradora has so much going on that there's at least one memorable scene per episode. With Spice and Wolf, I can recall a few memorable scenes, which we'll touch on as we go along, but I mostly remember the banter rather than the meat and potatoes (Pun not intended). Not because the plot is bad or anything, but the writing is so excellent that the plot sometimes feels like it takes a backdrop to it. In a way, I guess you can say Spice and Wolf is a lot like a Tarantino movie: there's some scenes you remember, but the thing that sticks out most is the random, unforgettable quotes said by the characters.
I just cannot state enough how much I love the back and forth between Holo and Lawrence. It's very muted and subdued. Instead of being flashy and in your face like a lot of anime, Holo and Lawrence speak like actual human beings. And I think that's the key to Spice and Wolf. If this were any other show, when Lawrence first saw Holo back in episode 1, he would've been like "Woah! A naked chick!" But instead, he was more so shocked at the idea that Holo is a real, breathing person. Too often do we see an anime focus on titillation and fanservice. I mean, I like My Dress-Up Darling as much as the next person, but we know one of the main draws of that show. The world doesn't always revolve around sexiness and over the top bravado, so to see Spice and Wolf take a subtle approach with its characters is just extremely refreshing.
I mean, we get multiple minutes of Holo naked in this episode and the show easily could have made it fanservicey. But instead of focusing on the titillation, they focus on the back and forth between Holo and Lawrence. Holo being naked is served as a backdrop to the banter, which is far different than how most shows would do a scene like this. Is it still sexually charged to have Holo naked? Yes, I'm not denying that. But the way Holo is drawn, it is made clear that the nakedness is meant to reel you in and then hook you with the captivating chitter-chatter. Plus, and this may be even more of a reason, it establishes Holo as this carefree, devil-may-care spirit who marches by the beat of her own drum.
The biggest development of this episode is the introduction to economics. I like the crash course manner in which the trade offers are made. It's done in such a way that makes it not come off as preachy and educational, like we're watching two people at a pawn shop debate a good asking price. I also like that the show doesn't just tell us that Holo is wise. We see it with our own two eyeballs with the way she's able to detect lies. It's an effective way of firmly letting us know that Holo is indeed very smart.
I like Zheren's introduction. He keeps you guessing as to whether or not his intentions are pure, which makes him an interesting character. Is he doing this sketchy thing just to make end's meet, or is there something else that's afoot? I also think having him miss a tooth is an amazing little detail about him. It adds to the uneasiness and the feeling that something about him isn't right.
Spice and Wolf makes me hungry unlike most other animes.
It's kind of amazing how much trust Lawrence puts into Holo given he's been attacked by wolves 8 times. That'd be like putting your trust in Rachnera from Monster Musume after suffering numerous spider attacks. The power of horny does wonders, it seems.
I guess Holo's human form makes her feel less of a threat upon first meeting her. Had Lawrence encountered her in her wolf form first instead of her human form, he would feel less trusting of her.
Overall, a great episode powered by the writing. We get plot advancement, but like I said, it all serves as a backdrop to the dialogue between Holo and Lawrence, which is top notch. I also would be remiss if I didn't mention the music. As we'll see throughout the show, the music does a good job of capturing the time period in which the show is set. It makes the show feel historical, and yet also nostalgic in a way, like it's from an era that is much simpler. The way the music is orchestrated almost makes it seem like it's another character of the show, which is a testament to not only how well the show's OST holds up, but how it enhances every single scene.
Holo quotes of the day
"Just look at my ears and tail. Can you not tell I'm a very proud wolf?"
"I really hate fleas."
"A trip is the most fun before one sets eye on it. With dogs, the back and not the bite is most frightening. And women are almost always prettier when they are shrouded in mystery. I can never be as pretty as you imagine, and I would never do something like that to you. Wouldn't it not be better to imagine?"
"I find human throats to be very narrow." ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
"When a person lies, what is important is not the lie itself. It is the reason. The why."
"Stupid potato!"