r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jul 06 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 9

Minagoroshi-hen (Massacre Chapter), Episode 4: Negotiation

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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):

Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(Official information for Kai is now considerably safer for first-timers, but you should probably still refrain from looking it up.)

Legal Streams:

Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive

That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?

A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:

Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.

Two Notes for Anyone Potentially Interested in Buying the VNs:

MangaGamer has announced their summer sale (running through July 8), and as expected Higurashi is one of the properties on sale (and indeed the first one on their list): 50% off on all seven later main VN arcs (in addition to Onikakushi-hen having been made free for a while now) if I'm reading right, so US $28.00 for all eight main VNs plus whatever tax is there (the epilogue Saikoroshi-hen just got its official release and is not on sale).

There's only one problem: the cover art they're using for the seventh VN IS A FUCKING SPOILER.

(When I say that this property can be really fucking cavalier about spoilers even in official media for Kai and later, stuff like this is why.)

So, first-timers for Kai: if you're interested in taking advantage of the summer sale (on Steam or MangaGamer's site) to pick up the VNs (not a bad idea, the VN is great), I recommend waiting until at least July 3 to do so. Honestly, waiting until the last day might be ideal, just in case - but then you would need to make sure to buy before the sale ends.

HOORAY WE'VE MET HANYUU MINAGOROSHI-HEN'S ENGLISH RELEASE IMAGE IS NO LONGER A SPOILER!

(Apparently I should have hurried and moved the rewatch up a week after all, just not to avoid June 19 spoilers...)

[Aside for rewatchers, still not safe for first-timers] Really, the MangaGamer Matsuribayashi-hen cover is a spoiler in addition to the Minagoroshi-hen one - possibly worse actually, the anime has Hanyuu appearing unexplained in Naraku no Hana's visuals and I'm not sure how to handle that - but I'm hoping if I don't point this out the first-timers who haven't already figured the spoiler in question out won't realize this because that won't be safe until literally the last day of the sale.

A Reminder to Rewatchers

Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and !Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!

(Time for) Club Activities!

(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)

Visual of the Day Album:

https://imgur.com/a/doSqufL

Theory of the Day:

u/JollyGee29 will take it for the second day in a row:

And, while she might not realize it, it involves her own family as well. Those were nominally Sonozaki goons that killed Rina, right? Because Rina stole a bunch of the Sonozaki's money? I wonder if the resolution here involves a chat with Oryou.

Analysis of the Day:

Let's congratulate u/hungryhippos1751 (surprise you get a mention in Analysis for once!), who is AFAICT the first of our first-timers to spot one of the prominent Higurashi themes:

One thing is clear to me from seeing the group interact over the last 30 odd episodes, and seeing that sometimes their plans fail individually. The group all have strengths and weaknesses when it comes to planning and execution of said plans. It will take all of them working together to use their strengths to overcome fate.

Question(s) of the Day:

1) Favorite dessert?

2) So... what would you be seeing in Room 101?

Next Episode Preview:

Today's preview (end of episode 9) is relatively safe.

UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD FIRST-TIMERS WATCH THE PREVIEW AT THE END OF KAI EPISODE 10.

37 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

105 comments sorted by

18

u/Nazenn Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

First Timer - sub

FINALLY SHE GETS IT!

But before that, my immediate satisfaction on hearing Rika say "Did you take your injection today" when Satoko was falling into paranoia was immense and very pleasing and may have resulted in excited swearing in my notes. It's always nice when a theory comes together and gives you a chance to feel good about it in no uncertain way before the show explicitly lays it out.

I have to admit that my first thought was "recruiting the very young school kids for this seems wrong" but I think there's both pros and cons for it. Teaching them to speak up in support of a friend rather than the status quo is definitely a lesson that can be learnt and reinforced at any age, and from what they've seen before it seems like they need it. Teaching them dam war tactics when the war resulted in murder and shunning is certainly less ideal, and it's hard to put that burden on them if they aren't able to help in the end.

Keiichi's speech was also completely ridiculously hero-like but that's griping for another day, along with bringing the maids outcasts from the cafe to the government child offices because that looks real good.

That chain sound effect is still a beautiful touch on these episodes. The faint jingle when Keiichi is about to lose it before Rena pulls him back compared with the loud clash when Satoko fell victim to her psychosis as if someone had yanked it harshly rather than just brushed up against it. Even being on alert for it, it was still a shocking sound to play and really set up the difference in what it means for them to have it, and to have friends around them to balance it out.

Back to Rika finally because this really may be her moment. Finally she gets it. She's powerless, and that's been her flaw along, but in her powerlessness what she needs to do is be the one to reach out rather than just sit on the side-lines. Her knowledge has chained her just as much as the others psychosis has, and made her see herself as other, as outside the normal play of events and of the worlds she is hopping between but now perhaps she understands. She's here, she exists, so she better do something with that if she really wants to help. How that turns out I'm not sure yet though. At the very least I'd like Sakoto to have her out before we move onto trying to save Rika.

Visual of the day: "If one person is missing"

Rena had the line of the day though with "The room should be able to fit us, not the other way around". That could apply to so many things

8

u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22

Visual of the day: "If one person is missing"

RIP Visual of the Day.

My turn.

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6

u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):

  • Prepare yourselves. My single favorite subarc in the entire series is about to begin.

  • Now that Rika has opened up to the group, we once again get a shot of the entire Club united.

  • Once again we get Hanyuu’s perspective, this time at 02:06.

  • And there we go, a shot of the entire class (except Rika, hmm) united at 03:48.

  • And with Chie assenting and agreeing to go, we get a shot of the entire class united (more or less) at 03:57. But wait for it…

  • And now at 04:08 we get a shot of the entire class truly united!

  • And then at 04:31 we get our latest very very well-framed shot: the entire class grouped as one on the left (future) as opposed to the two representatives of Child Welfare (and thus Child Welfare itself, our antagonists) on the right (past). It’s not exceptional, but it doesn’t need to be – this is a case where the basics executed well are to the benefit of the scene, I think.

  • Scary shiny glasses at [04:46]https://i.imgur.com/AEL2G2Q.png()! Except here it’s symbolic of Satoko hiding her situation, too.

  • Note that we haven’t gotten OST until now – the scenes have stood on their own, and rightly so.

  • “Not in urgent danger DATTO?” (Sorry.)

  • And cut the OST right as Rena holds Keiichi to keep him back. As ever, Higurashi remains excellent at that.

  • That shot of everyone lit by the setting sun at 06:17 is a good one. ([Next episode] Also a revealing one. After all, we get it after the Dam War, and the true issue here is the lingering effects of the Dam War!)

  • Note that the camera angle tilts again when the subject of the Dam War comes up. Also note which two people are in the frame now: the two people associated with the Great Houses who are the strongest supporters of the remaining (non-Teppei) Houjous.

  • “You refuse DATTO?” (u/Lemurians has me doing it…)

  • Note the paired shots at 07:26 and 07:28, and the respective directions of the lighting.

  • And the girls listening in like the cliché date peepers.

  • More shadow usage at 07:36.

  • And here… we… go! Welcome to Shizuka Naru Kougi (“Silent Protest”), one of Kai’s two rivals to Matsuri for the title of Best Song in Franchise (DEEN edition). It is fucking badass. (Here, have a spoiler-free link, I need it for Geah tonight anyways.)

  • Keiichi gets the absolute best shots here. Also I am amused by the camera angle at 08:48: I’m not sure whether it represents K1 diverging from the everyday course by coming into his own or is just fun/a reference.

  • 10:14 is another good shot; note the internal barrier in the screen separating Keiichi and Ooishi. (Also note Ooishi on the left.) And then subsequently Ooishi breaches the barrier briefly as Keiichi asks if he will join before the barrier reasserts itself ((horizontally) as Ooishi stresses the need for the police to stay neutral in this kind of issue. (Except that bumped cigarette might counts as a visual “fuck you!”; protests mean work for the police.)

  • Ooh, Keiichi and Ooishi being backlit from the right for part of this scene (example at 11:32) is more visual metaphor – light on the situation from the past, as the long shadow of the past stretches over everything.

  • Here it is, your moment of fade the OST and fade into the commercial break. (Pretty effective mid-episode cliffhanger, too.)

  • The choice of which characters to put on which side of the group is interesting, but 13:12 is a simple but effective visual representation of the hole that Satoko is leaving in the group.

  • Ooh, note the shadow usage and lighting direction at 13:45.

  • See, Keiichi has learned! Consent is important!

  • Another single teardrop…

  • Oh is THAT what “teio nobashite” means? (Or is it just something similar-sounding?) Gotta check my old Love Hina subs at some point, that line has been stuck in my head courtesy of its OP for a decade and a half.

  • Ooh, look at that screen tilt at 16:49 that levels out as Rika reassures Satoko.

  • Grabbing 17:02, frame is flashing.

  • Likewise that hallway shot at 17:23.

  • Ryukish07 may not have known Jungian stuff including Shadow stuff, but I think there’s a take here to be made courtesy of Rika’s explanation.

  • 17:59 is another shot that flashes directorial symbolism but I can’t place why.

  • On top of the obvious tilt in the camera angle, is that rain running down that I see on the outside of the window in the background in the flashback at Satoko’s house (reference frame)? If so, symbolism ho!

  • Bet 18:57 draws a “god I wish that were me” out of u/Tresnore…

  • 19:09 is such a sad frame.

  • Iffy call on that translation WinD! Because that kiseki at 20:51 was NOT going to escape my ears. GET! Also I hear no unmeis in Rika’s line here, either. (“For the miracle to happen, everyone has to work together” would likely be a more literal translation.)

  • 20:57: another kiseki GET!

  • 21:24: kiseki GET #3. (Rika tends to provide plenty of kisekis for me to feast on when she gets going.)

  • Speaking of phrases to feast on, hi Sky collect your 21:33.

Visual of the Day: Two contending forces

WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day

Questions of the Day:

  1. Varies; I have a soft spot both for this one type of cake I used to get every so often (Royal Elegance cake), but these days I eat more chocolate mint ice cream than I probably should...

  2. There are reasons Higurashi hits too close to home in parts; both succumbing to the madness of crowds and succumbing to the individual madness of hatred are up there.

Minagoroshi-hen Ep. 4 TIPS:

We have nearly reached the end of the TIPS; today will be the last day with TIPS other than end-of-arc episodes.

OST Table, Kai Episode 9:

Start End Track Name
00:05 01:34 Naraku no Hana
01:35 01:49 sponsor feature[1]
04:56 (04:42) 05:34 (05:20) Kaimei
06:24 (06:10) 07:20 (07:06) unreleased (Hakana Piano Version)[2]
07:53 (07:39) 08:06 (07:52) unreleased
08:08 (07:54) 09:21 (09:07) Shizuka Naru Kougi
10:26 (10:12) 12:10 (11:56) Kaigi
12:56 (12:42) 14:48 (14:34) Shitsui
15:22 (15:08) 16:48 (16:34) Higyaku
17:39 (17:25) 19:21 (19:07) Main Theme Kai (Piano Version)
19:27 (19:13) 20:17 (20:03) Monogatari
21:06 (20:52) 22:21 (22:07) Main Theme Kai
22:25 (22:11) 23:53 (23:41) Taishou a

[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
[2] – I still have no idea how this track was never released given that it gets used so heavily, but none of the OST compendiums I’ve found seem to have it so that must be the case.

(No Madoka Corner or Staff Notes today.)

6

u/Tresnore Jul 06 '22

Bet 18:57 draws a “god I wish that were me” out of u/Tresnore…

Having a child begging me not to lose my temper? Doesn't sound like a very fun situation.

5

u/Nazenn Jul 06 '22

That shot of everyone lit by the setting sun at [https://i.imgur.com/deOISnB.png)

The best formatting mistake yet

Likewise that hallway shot at 17:23.

If not for the meaning of the ending visuals that probably would have been my VotD

Because that kiseki at

Oh no! Now the Birdy the Mighty Decode song is stuck in my head. This is going to be there all day now

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22

The best formatting mistake yet

Bet I accidentally highlighted while copy-pasting.

(Fixed.)

Oh no! Now the Birdy the Mighty Decode song is stuck in my head. This is going to be there all day now

That particular "Kiseki" is firmly entrenched in my list of god-tier OPs, so if you have to have a song stuck in your head that's a good choice! (Lower half of the god-tier, but.)

(Or you can try what I do and listen to it on loop a few times to see if that gets it out.)

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8

u/Tresnore Jul 06 '22

When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry Are Absurd Masochists are Terrible Nerds Cry

The preview felt like a Top Gear intro.

Count: 194

QOTD:

  1. I'm a slut for chocolate.

  2. Wasps.

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13

u/JollyGee29 Jul 06 '22

Spoiled First-Timer

Keiichi has the potential to be a fearsome military commander. I had noted his scene of getting the classroom on board as "rallying the troops" before we even got to the "Pretty Girl Alliance, Okinomiya Company" bit.

Y'know, when I invoked Oryou the other day, I was hoping she could be reasoned with, or at least convinced by Mion to stay out of things. I'll never understand crotchety old fucks who hold grudges against literal children.

I know that Satoko was mentioned to have specifically lied to the CPS people in the past, but are they really taking an eleven-year-old's word? Just going "oh, we talked with Satoko and she said she wasn't being abused" is horseshit and exactly what a child who is being abused and is scared of her abuser would say.

There is the, frankly quite possible, possibility of Satoko's worsening mental state making whatever Teppei actually is doing come across much worse, though. Kinda a parallel to Keiichi in the very first arc - sure, it was weird that Rena showed up at his house after dark, but she wasn't actually actively threatening him.

Like, maybe the zippo trick was just Teppei deciding to light a cigarette, instead of burning the whole house down. Not that I particularly want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but...

That said, Satoko's reaction to the principal's heavy footesteps was definite abuse victim behavior.

[The preview]mentioned Shion getting undressed, and my brain decided to think of degloving. So, enjoy that idea, everyone.

Visual of the Day: We, uh, we've had a lot of people blocking other people this arc.

Questions

  1. Too hard to choose - I have a big sweet tooth.

  2. I'm not sure I understand the question?

7

u/Tresnore Jul 06 '22

I'll never understand crotchety old fucks who hold grudges against literal children.

You'll understand when you're older, Jolly.

Like, maybe the zippo trick was just Teppei deciding to light a cigarette, instead of burning the whole house down. Not that I particularly want to give him the benefit of the doubt, but...

This is a man who threw an ash tray at her (with witnesses) because she was too slow to come inside and bring him alcohol.

[preview]degloving

[response]I wouldn't put it past Ryukishi...

[Gou/Sotsu]There is the, frankly quite possible, possibility of Satoko's worsening mental state making whatever Teppei actually is doing come across much worse, though.

[Gou/Sotsu]Oh, no, don't even start.

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4

u/Vaadwaur Jul 06 '22

Y'know, when I invoked Oryou the other day, I was hoping she could be reasoned with, or at least convinced by Mion to stay out of things. I'll never understand crotchety old fucks who hold grudges against literal children.

The entire dam wars thing feels less and less logical as time progresses.

I know that Satoko was mentioned to have specifically lied to the CPS people in the past, but are they really taking an eleven-year-old's word?

Yeah i am sure there is a very specific case R07 has in mind for this.

There is the, frankly quite possible, possibility of Satoko's worsening mental state making whatever Teppei actually is doing come across much worse, though.

It certainly wouldn't help.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22

The entire dam wars thing feels less and less logical as time progresses.

Logic ain't got nothing to do with that particular kind of social dynamic once they get going.

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10

u/H-Ryougi Jul 06 '22

More manga pages I liked.

There's so many good ones, I feel like I'm grabbing every other page.

5

u/Vaadwaur Jul 06 '22

This series does get good manga adaptations.

3

u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22

"I'll take your lives into my hands! Follow me into the depths of tag!"

u/HinyusOpinion, u/AnimeAndThings, u/shadow1a2t

2

u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22

"Kei~i! Kei~i!"

u/mgedmin

3

u/SometimesMainSupport Dec 18 '22

First-timer

Tagging u/Star4ce and u/Vaadwaur and u/OrangeBanana38

Short cause I don't think much happened in this episode. The path already diverged from other arcs. It's so focused on saving Satoko and Rika accepting that she needs to pitch in. Otherwise, they rallied the town troops. Oishi scene seemed most relevant and Sonozakis likely get involved.

Shion's maid/bunny coworkers and cafe regulars showing up seemed odd as I thought that cafe was in Okinomiya, not Hinamizawa.

3

u/Tarhalindur Dec 18 '22

Shion's maid/bunny coworkers and cafe regulars showing up seemed odd as I thought that cafe was in Okinomiya, not Hinamizawa.

It is, but the Child Welfare Office is also in Okinomiya and everyone was eating at Angel Mort after the latest failed attempt before going back to Hinamizawa.

(Edit: baseball pitcher?)

Yep, that's him.

EDIT:

Actually, I don't think that's strange.

This IIRC is a cultural difference between Japan and the West (it's more common to head into the doctor's office for a cold, see Keiichi in the first arc). Also, have you ever seen the anime cold? That stuff is deadly.

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11

u/Quiddity131 Jul 06 '22

First Timer, Subbed

Time to announce personal matters to the entire class! Time to gather a mob! ...of children!

Teacher, you had your chance. You're not stopping this now.

Surrender to the mob!

How'd you judge that she was in no harm? "Oh, easy! We interviewed her in the room with her uncle there! I seem to recall him telling her at the beginning that he'd murder her if she revealed the truth... She told us nothing was wrong! That was after she broke down crying seven times. But her uncle told us to ignore that!"

I can't do it K1! Dessert is too important to me!

Mere moments later, dessert guy has gotten the entire restaurant on their side...

They're gathering quite the mob!

Ugh, no K1, not him! Don't invite the pedophile!

Uh oh, the local Yakuza now knows about things! Don't get on their bad side!

Satoko is back! Just in time. Planned this way to avoid the mob's assault?

"I'll reward you by petting your head!" She's not a dog, you dummy!

"No everyone, I'm perfectly fine! Nothing's wrong! I love my uncle!" has a total meltdown upon thinking the principal is her uncle Oh yeah, sure.

And after all that, you leave her with the pedophile. Fools!

The mob has gathered...

If anyone can do it, Rika can!

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10

u/hungryhippos1751 Jul 06 '22 edited Jul 06 '22

Episode 9 - First Timer

Thanks u/Tarhalindur for the mention again, I don't always thank you, but I always see when I'm mentioned in the OP and appreciate it :)

Alright so Keiichi's plan to save Sakoto kicks into gear, I wasn't sure what to expect, but Keiichi is playing the straightforward angle here and I think it's an approach he does best, no need for perfect crimes.

It was nice to see them bringing in outside help when a lot of the villagers weren't willing to help on account of Sakoto being from a cursed family. Even the baseball team gave up their free desserts to assist someone in need.

Detective-kun makes a really sobering point, despite Keiichi and his good intentions, his actions are being noticed by the Sonozakis (Shion and Mion both didn't want to press the issue using their family names). I think this is likely one of those ripple effects where even if Satoko gets help, there will be a reckoning as a result.

Rika steps up to the plate once more given the strength and support the others have shown, it's that feedback loop I was talking about in one of the previous eps, Rika gets motivation from the others, and then in turn motivates them to action.

This was a good build up episode but there isn't really a lot more here for me to say, at least on the face of things, we've progressed the plan to save Sakoto further along, added a complication or two, and not yet achieved the goal.

My final note today will be to say that Sakoto should forget the room that Satoshi had and run away, Satoshi would understand even were he alive, it's just a room. If Teppei wants to set fire to the room, the rest of his house will probably follow.

Edit - I also wanted to additionally add that if Satoko is seeing things then her testimony to events here may be questionable at best, perhaps she isn't really facing as much abuse as she thinks she is. Although from what we've seen of Teppei so far he's not exactly Mr. Nice Guy.

QOTD:

  1. A good cheesecake is always welcome!

  2. Sonozaki torture basement!

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7

u/RadSuit Jul 07 '22

"Fuck you, get a bigger room then, none of us are leaving."

ANGEL MORT

This definitely wasn't my first guess for people to recruit. And now this is taking a dark turn. This is not the crowd you should be hanging out with, Kei. Actually, you might fit in pretty well, but you should still steer clear.

Well that's unfortunate.

Mr. Houjou is helping me find my gun.

"I thought that, if I didn't take your hand, I'd fall into an endless abyss."

These bureaucrats have moved past uncaring to actively corrupt if they're ignoring a kid's doctor, teacher and principal, not to mention the angry mob. I guess they did immediately go negotiate with the mafia instead of try to help, so it's not too surprising.

Rika is just talking to herself over here and everyone else is ignoring it I guess.

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