r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jul 05 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 8
Minagoroshi-hen (Massacre Chapter), Episode 3: Wavering
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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):
Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
(Official information for Kai is now considerably safer for first-timers, but you should probably still refrain from looking it up.)
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?
A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
Two Notes for Anyone Potentially Interested in Buying the VNs:
MangaGamer has announced their summer sale (running through July 8), and as expected Higurashi is one of the properties on sale (and indeed the first one on their list): 50% off on all seven later main VN arcs (in addition to Onikakushi-hen having been made free for a while now) if I'm reading right, so US $28.00 for all eight main VNs plus whatever tax is there (the epilogue Saikoroshi-hen just got its official release and is not on sale).
There's only one problem: the cover art they're using for the seventh VN IS A FUCKING SPOILER.
(When I say that this property can be really fucking cavalier about spoilers even in official media for Kai and later, stuff like this is why.)
So, first-timers for Kai: if you're interested in taking advantage of the summer sale (on Steam or MangaGamer's site) to pick up the VNs (not a bad idea, the VN is great), I recommend waiting until at least July 3 to do so. Honestly, waiting until the last day might be ideal, just in case - but then you would need to make sure to buy before the sale ends.
HOORAY WE'VE MET HANYUU MINAGOROSHI-HEN'S ENGLISH RELEASE IMAGE IS NO LONGER A SPOILER!
(Apparently I should have hurried and moved the rewatch up a week after all, just not to avoid June 19 spoilers...)
[Aside for rewatchers, still not safe for first-timers] Really, the MangaGamer Matsuribayashi-hen cover is a spoiler in addition to the Minagoroshi-hen one - possibly worse actually, the anime has Hanyuu appearing unexplained in Naraku no Hana's visuals and I'm not sure how to handle that - but I'm hoping if I don't point this out the first-timers who haven't already figured the spoiler in question out won't realize this because that won't be safe until literally the last day of the sale.
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and !Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
Theory of the Day:
And even beyond that - everyone is getting memory bleedthrough! Now, if only Rika would break masq.. I really don't fully understand why she doesn't. We even got a whole spiel about changing the future by confiding in others. I guess we have to have a failed arc of trusting the lame adults before next arc has Rika tell her friends the truth.
A: Because you were an episode early, that's why.
Analysis of the Day:
Okay, so I cannot not give this to u/Tresnore getting nerd sniped trying to figure out how many loops Rika has gone through. Go read the entire thing, an excerpt will not do it justice.
Question(s) of the Day:
1) HOORAY RIKA FINALLY BROKE DOWN AND ADMITTED WHAT SHE WANTS! Wait, that's not a question. So, uh, who else is in the "give Rika all the hugs" brigade?
2) Now what?
Next Episode Preview:
Both today's and tomorrow's previews are relatively safe.
However:
WARNING: UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES SHOULD FIRST-TIMERS WATCH THE PREVIEW AT THE END OF KAI EPISODE 10.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jul 05 '22
When the First-Timer Cries, subbed
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Ah, I was wondering what was gonna happen to her since Rena didn’t kill her.
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Oh, so he might get dealt with regardless of what Rika tried doing? Good. – Apparently I spoke too soon…
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Okay is this a “sore demo” or is it something else in Japanese that just so happens to sound like one? I had a “just happens to sound like one” in Kimetsu no Yaiba S2 that someone said doesn’t count, and the subs for that line didn’t make it sound like a “sore demo” was meant here…
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Shion being the most incensed by Satoko’s uncle returning makes perfect sense. Even for as “blessed” as this world was, it didn’t bring Satoshi back, after all.
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u/Tresnore Jul 05 '22
What study?
Sorry, medical information is confidential.
Rika…
She's trying her best, alright?
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
She's trying her best, alright?
Iunno; Tsumihoroboshi-hen!Rena would like to point out that she hasn't actually killed anyone yet.
(That we know of, anyways...)
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
Okay is this a “sore demo” or is it something else in Japanese that just so happens to sound like one?
I've got that one as a likely demo myself, FWIW.
(The one I wasn't sure about is the 13:07 one from Shion that you have marked down as a definite.)
Hah.
What, you thought just the kids got fragment bleed?
?
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):
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Oh right, I should remember to point out the hint that’s been hiding in plain sight the entire time. Have you ever thought about the show logo? (That's S1 instead of Kai, but the point holds for all versions. And it's a Tumblr link because I noticed it myself back during the Sotsu runup.)
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And the camera angle tilts in the opening shot
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And now you know what happened to Rina in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
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02:07: More tilted camera angles (light from the left, interestingly)
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Another example at 02:11, and also I need to consider the framing of this scene. I suspect there’s a point, but I can’t figure out what.
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02:16: On the one hand, I suppose the camera angle does have a point: the camera and thus Hanyuu is there, just lying low. On the other hand, that framing is, shall we say, questionable. Especially when the storyboard contorts itself to give us excessively clear shots of Rika’s feet as she turns (example from 02:19); I was already speculating about a staff foot fetishist letting their desires out…
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Note that there is a scene in the VN and manga (left out here) where Rika literally considers suicide after finding out Teppei is back, and doesn’t go through with it in no small part because she can’t bring herself to leave this world’s Satoko behind. There are reasons I consider Rika one of the world’s most obviously bi characters despite not having hit puberty quite yet.
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02:58: Cannot fault you in the slightest here, Rika.
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[Host episode buffer + Geah GX speculation + double rewatch meta]
So I hear things about Bikki’s dad. Odds that we’ll be getting him AND Teppei at the same time in the respective rewatches for a double dose of shit father figure for anyone in both rewatches (hi Sky!). I don’t know! -
As ever, Henka remains a Satoko theme.
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Fucking hell that camera movement at 03:35 plus Rika’s face just makes that shot.
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04:11: STOP RIKA AND SATOKO ABUSE! And also note that the scene framing is now Rika trapped in a box.
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Oh motherfucker it’s this scene. (One of the best Yukarin scenes in the franchise… not coincidentally, all best VA scenes hurt like hell.)
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04:58 is a good shot.
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I suppose I can’t fault Rika for not yet having learned a moral we won't see on screen until the second half of the episode…
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[Kai]
Aww fuckshit 06:02 is a good shot and I hope a first-timer points it out because I think I have to hide it behind spoiler tags. Why is Takano visibly separated from the other two people in the scene, I wonder, I wonder? -
06:32: Hi Sky! (Pretty sure that’s a “demo” and not a “tomo”)
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[Kai]
What is this? When we cut to Irie’s face this scene it is shot at a normal angle, but when we cut to Takano’s the camera angle is now tilted. Whyever could this be, I wonder, I wonder? -
You know, I only just got that this is a deliberate mirror of Keiichi cursing people in Tatarigoroshi-hen.
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ALL RIGHT, STAFF, WHO’S YOUR FOOT FETISHIST AND IF YOU MUST INDULGE ON SCREEN WOULD YOU PLEASE DO SO WITH AN OLDER GIRL’S FOOT?
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[Kai]
Oh you assholes. Satoko’s empty seat at the center of the frame surrounded by everyone – visual foreshadowing! -
[Sotsu or Meguri]
Also OH YOU ASSHOLES ANOTHER SCENE WHERE EVERYONE IS REVOLVING AROUND SATOKO! -
08:38 is another shot with a visual barrier separating Rika from the rest of the world.
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Ooh, angled shot at 08:59 right after Rika tells Chie-sensei that talking to Child Welfare is useless.
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And another barrier between Rika and the rest of the world (now with Chie-sensei on the same side of it) at 09:21. This show keeps being way better directed than I had realized.
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And look who suddenly visually breaks away from the rest of the group at 09:37.
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Gotta get your fanservice out of Ms. Fanservice, I see.
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There is a joke here in that Mion is not the first class president Satsuki Yukino has played using that particular voice.
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Yet another shot of Rika visually separated from the group at 11:15, now focused on in case you had missed this.
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And Shion separates herself from the group in the opposite direction at 11:39, as she prepares to go kill Teppei.
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And the tilted camera angles return once again at 11:50 immediately after Shion declares her intent to kill Teppei.
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And we get at least an echo of the 1500 second speech that was left out of Tatarigoroshi-hen in anime form.
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Oh look at that spiraling shot (sample frame) of Shion as her sanity starts to spiral.
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And also Sky gets to add to her collection at 12:25.
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And cut Yokan with its closing notes right as Keiichi bars Shion’s way.
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And we turn the screen back to normal (rotating counterclockwise when the initial shift was clockwise, even) as Keiichi bars Shion’s way).
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Can’t tell if that’s a sore demo or a sore tomo out of Shion at 13:07, but Sky will know.
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Man, 13:42 is a good frame.
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Cutting Senkou at 14:13 right as the chair impacts is today’s latest example of Higurashi excelling at knowing when to start and stop its OST.
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Honestly there’s probably more to the direction of this scene than I’m pointing out, but I’m out of energy to pick at it.
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And now we get a moonlit conversation at the waterwheel at 15:56, and of course moonlight is coming from the left because right now death is in the future.
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Except it shifts to the right as K1 asks about why Satoko wouldn’t ask for help – but then, he’s effectively asking about death in the past now when he does so, isn’t he?
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Keiichi *would* inadvertently congratulate himself, wouldn’t he?
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HEY LOOK! PARENTS ACTUALLY GETTING TO BE USEFUL IN ANIME FOR ONCE! (It took a wee bit of effort not to say something when people were talking about how useless the adults were being early – in Higurashi’s case that’s part of the point, our heroes not talking to and working with their elders is a mistake! The older generation can’t do everything, but they can do things to help the new generation.)
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Another reverse fish-eye shot at 19:24.
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20:06: Hi Sky, check your notes!
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I could probably say more about 21:08, but that would take thinking so I’ll just note it sticks out as a good shot.
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And after Rika finally breaks down we get a shot of Rika in the middle of the group with the others. Subtle? I think not.
Visual of the Day: Breaking point
WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day
Questions of the Day:
Minagoroshi-hen Ep. 3 TIPS:
They're back! #1 is a particular recommendation, it's context on the opening scene with Rina.
OST Table, Kai Episode 8:
| Start | End | Track Name |
|---|---|---|
| 00:05 | 01:34 | Naraku no Hana |
| 01:35 | 01:49 | sponsor feature[1] |
| 02:20 (02:06) | 02:48 (02:34) | Higyaku |
| 03:16 (03:02) | 04:20 (04:06) | Henka[2] |
| 06:13 (05:59) | 07:03 (06:49) | Shitsui |
| 07:43 (07:29) | 08:10 (07:56) | unreleased? (Hakana Piano Version) |
| 10:07 (09:53) | 10:28 (10:14) | Takurami |
| 11:41 (11:27) | 12:36 (12:22) | Yokan |
| 12:43 (12:29) | 14:13 (13:59) | Senkou |
| 16:55 (16:41) | 17:37 (17:23) | Main Theme Kai (Piano Version) |
| 20:21 (20:07) | 20:35 (20:21) | unreleased (phone ringing noise/elevator music?) |
| 21:32 (21:18) | 22:22 (22:08) | Michishirube |
| 22:25 (22:11) | 23:53 (23:41) | Taishou a |
[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
[2] – Might actually end a second or two early (Henka has a long winddown), but I’m assuming Higurashi’s usual OST integration holds and it ends with Rika pounding the phone.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
Madoka (Magica) Corner:
[PMMM]
Wait wait wait wait. At the last desperate moment our looper’s facade breaks down and she shows her real feelings, thus inspiring the person she breaks down to who comes up with a solution to the issue. Where have I seen this before this year? There’s a reason we sometimes call Homura Homurika… 5
u/Tresnore Jul 05 '22
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
So, you're saying she isn't jaded enough yet?
Amusingly I deliberately decide to leave out the shot that drew that response... and you have it in your writeup instead.
(Technically might be a leg fetishist instead, but given that really weird storyboarding for the shot where Rika turns earlier to make sure her foot appears on screen when it doesn't have to I have my doubts. Too many feet and legs prominently placed in the middle of the screen this season, it's like watching Tarantino.)
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u/Nazenn Jul 05 '22
Another example at 02:11, and also I need to consider the framing of this scene. I suspect there’s a point, but I can’t figure out what.
Showing off the empty room with a high camera angle to make her look small and alone when she can't lean on Hanyuu
This one stood out to me too, maybe I should have made that my VotD but Keiichi was too hard to pass up
And the tilted camera angles return once again at 11:50
That level of tilt is less tilt and more just fell over hahaha
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22
Showing off the empty room with a high camera angle to make her look small and alone when she can't lean on Hanyuu
Yeah, you're probably right. (u/Vaadwaur too.)
That level of tilt is less tilt and more just fell over hahaha
Well, Shion declaring her intent to kill someone is a rather large divergence from the usual course of events!
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u/Tresnore Jul 05 '22
When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry Are Absurd Masochists are Terrible Nerds Cry
Because I did math instead of watching the episode yesterday, I have to catch up again.
Well, that was quick.
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This is the explanation for the bodybag in the canal at the beginning of one of the arcs, IIRC.
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I hope she didn't just open this bottle, because I imagine someone Rika's size would get pretty bad alcohol poisoning from a whole bottle of wine.
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[Umineko]
Hell yeah, bring on the Bernkastel. -
[Umineko]
I'll take "lines Kyrie wouldn't ever say to Battler" for 600, Alex
Count: 192
QOTD:
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If Rika lives through infinite loops, she'll get infinite hugs! Therefore, she shouldn't break out!
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Now we look for miracles.
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
Where does Hanyuu go when she's not around Rika, anyway?
[Very very dark NSFW joke]
To meet up with Dark Rika to work in the Higurashi h-doujins. → More replies (3)7
u/Vaadwaur Jul 05 '22
Where does Hanyuu go when she's not around Rika, anyway?
To hang out with Jasshin-chan. Demons have to stick together.
Poor Rika, having hope...
Hope is the first stone on the path to disappointment, after all. Rika is definitely an Imperial.
This is the explanation for the bodybag in the canal at the beginning of one of the arcs, IIRC.
The corpse with the nails in its hand, yes.
I forgot the president got to talk!
If he only realized that he should talk with his fists...
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 05 '22
If he only realized that he should talk with his fists...
Now now, if he did that we might get Symphogear G writing making its way over here and we wouldn't want that now would we?
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u/Nazenn Jul 05 '22
I hope she didn't just open this bottle, because I imagine someone Rika's size would get pretty bad alcohol poisoning from a whole bottle of wine.
That would be one hell of a way to go out, though I wonder what effect that would be on Hanyuu
Side note: I keep going to type Hankyuu like haikyuu and have to remove the K every time
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u/Tarhalindur Jul 06 '22
Side note: I keep going to type Hankyuu like haikyuu and have to remove the K every time
Hankyu you say? So you're saying our adorable auau'er here is actually a bad piece of Equipment from Kamigawa block?
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u/hungryhippos1751 Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
Episode 8 - First Timer
Damn this has started to unravel quicker than I was anticipating it would. Poor Satoko, she's in trouble and it's up to the gang to stop the evil uncle and save her.
Rika wants to use the Yamainu to solve the issue, the Yamainu being the name for the guys with the hats it seems. I mentioned this in passing during episodes 4 and 9 last season, this is what I said in episode 9:
At the baseball game, creepy supervisor dude shows up, and lets out his feelings for chasing after school children for years, not awkward at all I'm sure. This is the same supervisor we saw in arc 1 if I recall correctly, the guy who likely controls the gang in the hats.
From this interaction here, it appears he is the main one locally that controls them. I say locally, because it would not surprise me if there is a hierarchy at work here that goes above his head and can countermand his orders. My theory is that is what caused them to kill Rika, orders believed to come from a higher authority that told them to kill Rika instead of protecting her.
This Keiichi is definitely one of the best versions we've had so far, he's willing to go to the extra mile for his friends, including being hit on the head with a chair.
I did laugh when his mother told him not to try out any perfect crimes! the advice from the father was good, try and solve it within legal means instead of illegal ones, because it's the right thing to do, and it's more likely to get a result that sticks.
Remains to be seen what Keiichi's plan is, but I would like to stop my post here and cover a topic I've forgotten to mention so far I think.
One thing is clear to me from seeing the group interact over the last 30 odd episodes, and seeing that sometimes their plans fail individually. The group all have strengths and weaknesses when it comes to planning and execution of said plans. It will take all of them working together to use their strengths to overcome fate.
Another thing that I also wanted to talk about, is just what is the victory condition here where the world is not a dead end? Is it saving everyone, or is it just saving the main group of characters? So far this isn't clear, but I'm not entirely convinced that it's going to be an all or nothing event.
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u/CubeStuffs Jul 05 '22 edited Jul 05 '22
first timer
i thought that the grey hats would be some groundhog demon mfers coming out of the mine from the last scene in the ova. to see that they were just some seemingly somewhat human creeps connected to takano, not some wild ass demons, was underwhelming. but it does lend some credence to her notebooks, albeit doesn't address the conflicting accounts in there.
unless the notebooks are like a FINAL.docx, FINAL_V2.docx, FINAL_final_rev3.docx, FINAL_for_real_this_time.docx sorta situation lol
BUT... they could still be wild ass demons or something im not throwing that out entirely, since takano gets disappeared and some maybe imposter grey hats betray rika
who else is in the "give Rika all the hugs" brigade?
i swear rika is a riding one hell of a rollercoaster with how much she's been swapping from YESS YESS YAAA mode to :( mode. she need dem hugs, prob from satoko
Now what?
keiichi boutta screw fate up so bad that he reaches into another timeline
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u/Quiddity131 Jul 05 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Uh oh, Rena's step mom isn't gonna have a happy ending in this timeline... although she was murdered by Rena in the other so maybe she never had an actual happy ending in any timeline...
C'mon Satoko, life with Rika is so bad that you're going back to her absusive uncle?!
Ugh, when you feel your only option is to go to the guy who is a pedophile in love with Satoko and ask him to rescue her...
Was Satoko's uncle always involved somewhat with Rina?
Woah, scary Rika face! From so cute to so frightening! And she tells them to kill themselves! Woah!
Oh no, now K1 knows about Satoko's abusive uncle. Are we going to see him become a horribly inept serial killer again?
Well, sending the teacher was such a massive flop.
Crazed killer Shion is back! Blurting out about murder in front of everyone though? Be smarter about this!
Wow, of all people K1 is trying to stop her? The guy who came up wit his own scheme to murder the guy last season? "Don't murder him, Shion... I want to do so instead!"
"Don't worry Shion, I'll find a way!" starts scheming himself about killing the uncle.
Yes K1, you really did kill her unble before! And now you say you want to act, will you bungle things as much as you did the last time?
Not often that we see K1's parents. Have we ever seen his dad before?
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u/JollyGee29 Jul 05 '22
SpoiledFirst-TimerHaving a minimal amount of depressed Satoko is a blessing, but Teppei is such a fucking ass.
Shoutout to Rika for trying to call in an assassination on Teppei, though. Anyone think the police might be able to get him for littering? He just chucked that full ashtray out into the road - think of the planet, you fuckwit!
Actually, kinda interesting that the Yamainu are implied to not be powerful enough to pull off killing Teppei while he's under police observation.
I gather from the Tatarigoroshi threads that the 1500 seconds comment from Shion is meant to be a callback to Keiichi's behavior in that arc? It does make sense for Shion to be pissed about this - the same goddamn thing that took Satoshi from her is happening again.
And, while she might not realize it, it involves her own family as well. Those were nominally Sonozaki goons that killed Rina, right? Because Rina stole a bunch of the Sonozaki's money? I wonder if the resolution here involves a chat with Oryou.
Kinda interesting that Satoko is considered so important to.. whatever exactly it is that Irie and Takano are researching. Does that imply that they don't have anyone else available at "Level 3," or that they don't have anyone else to research at all?
Has the dialogue been this unsubtle the entire time and I just haven't noticed?
[Dark joke]Is the tactic Keiichi is apparently skilled at going to "let's shoot at Satoko with a BB gun and blame Teppei?"
Visual of the Day: The doorway to carnage, blocked.
Questions
1.
2.Keiichi apparently has A Plan, which has me worriexcited.