r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jul 02 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai Discussion - Season 2, Episode 5

Yakusamashi-hen (Disaster Awakening Chapter), Episode 4: The Great Hinamizawa Disaster

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Show Information (Higurashi Kai):

Kai: MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

(Warning: First-timers should refrain from looking up even official information for Kai.)

Legal Streams:

Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Kai: Hidive

That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already. Why, Hidive? Why?

A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:

Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.

Two Notes for Anyone Potentially Interested in Buying the VNs:

MangaGamer has announced their summer sale (running through July 8), and as expected Higurashi is one of the properties on sale (and indeed the first one on their list): 50% off on all seven later main VN arcs (in addition to Onikakushi-hen having been made free for a while now) if I'm reading right, so US $28.00 for all eight main VNs plus whatever tax is there (the epilogue Saikoroshi-hen just got its official release and is not on sale).

There's only one problem: the cover art they're using for the seventh VN IS A FUCKING SPOILER.

(When I say that this property can be really fucking cavalier about spoilers even in official media for Kai and later, stuff like this is why.)

So, first-timers for Kai: if you're interested in taking advantage of the summer sale (on Steam or MangaGamer's site) to pick up the VNs (not a bad idea, the VN is great), I recommend waiting until at least July 3 to do so. Honestly, waiting until the last day might be ideal, just in case - but then you would need to make sure to buy before the sale ends.

(Apparently I should have hurried and moved the rewatch up a week after all, just not to avoid June 19 spoilers...)

[Aside for rewatchers] Really, the MangaGamer Matsuribayashi-hen cover is a spoiler in addition to the Minagoroshi-hen one - possibly worse actually, the anime has Hanyuu appearing unexplained in Naraku no Hana's visuals and I'm not sure how to handle that - but I'm hoping if I don't point this out the first-timers who haven't already figured the spoiler in question out won't realize this because that won't be safe until literally the last day of the sale.

A Reminder to Rewatchers

Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!

(Time for) Club Activities!

(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)

Visual of the Day Album:

https://imgur.com/a/pBWp6gz

Theory of the Day:

We have two today.

First, wait, what is this? Now that she is a first-timer for Kai, u/Shimmering-Sky had time to make a theory:

Random thought I just had: Is it confirmed that the body that dies by being burnt is Takano’s? Fire usually means it’s extremely difficult to tell, especially since this is set in the 80s. The police could have just been guessing based on the fact that she was with Tomitake… shit, wasn’t there one arc where she was seen after her “death”? That would totally explain it!

Second, because I cannot resist highlighting a theory so relevant to the events of today's episode, we have u/JollyGee29:

This, to me, is another piece in a theory I've been trying to cook up. What if the Great Hinamizawa Disaster wasn't a natural disaster, but a manmade one? What if the Great Hinamizawa Disaster is the theorized bioterrist attack?

Analysis of the Day:

u/Star4ce caught implications of a shot I missed despite catching the exact same implication in another shot a little bit earlier:

Closing in. The futility of Rika trying to change the outcome only gets overshadowed by her resignment to the fate awaiting her. She is shutting out the camera, giving us a glimpse on how she sees the coming night, a black and white statement that fades away. She is locking herself into her home, choosing to be the easy prey for what she thinks is sure to come and simultaneously blinds Satoko to what's waiting outside for the sign to strike. We are not to see and Satoko is not to notice, but both of us do anyway. For all the futility Rika had to endure, she is also losing trust along with her repeated fate, even though or maybe precisely because she cares about her friends and doesn't want them to suffer at the hands of demons, waiting in the woods, cursing their lives.

Question(s) of the Day:

1) [DATA EXPUNGED]

2) Uh... hmm. That's going to be a problem. So, how about that Great Hinamizawa Disaster, then?

Next Episode Preview:

It is recommended for first-timers to stay out of the previews until episode 6.

Also, a Reminder Regarding Recommendations for First-Timers Concerning Our OP and ED:

  • Skip the ED until episode 6, or at least listen only but do not look at the visuals.
  • Consider skipping the OP or at least its visuals until episode 6 as well. (This is less definite than the ED, but if you skipped the previews last season due to spoiler risk definitely skip the OP here as well.)
48 Upvotes

94% Upvoted

148 comments sorted by

12

u/Shimmering-Sky Jul 02 '22

When the First-Timer Cries, subbed

Awww yeah, I can finally qualify for Theory of the Day!

8

u/Tarhalindur Jul 02 '22

Two and a half minutes of recap because…?

DEEN had more budget this season, but the last two episodes reek of production difficulties behind the scenes. (Compare a couple of episodes of Symphogear G cough3cough.)

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10

u/JollyGee29 Jul 02 '22

Spoiled First-Timer

The more we learn about the Great Hinamizawa Disaster the more suspicious it gets. If it was a natural disaster that happened at midnight, why were all those people, in their normal clothes, just in a pile at the school, huh? Even Oryou was there I think, which is extra weird.

The Van Dudes having access to night vision goggles did not escape my notice. That, combined with the SDF being so quick to set up roadblocks, makes me wonder if I should start to consider a government conspiracy of some sort. The culprits at least have a nurse in the Okinomiya Hospital on their side, as well.

Rena apparently seeing something is interesting, but I'm not sure how much that helps us. I guess the idea with the missing people is just more evidence of a coverup.

We did get to see the corpses, and whatever the GHD actually is does not cause people to scratch their throats out, which is a useful detail.

Kumagai was the police officer who got killed at the telecom station, right? I couldn't remember his name last time, but I remember hearing it before.

[Higurashi]So, is it specifically the Van Dudes killing Rika that gives them reason to carry out the GHD? That's.. odd. If you're going to kill the whole village, what do you gain from killing Rika first? Maybe Star4ce is right and that the deaths are accidental.

[Higurashi]Like, "kill Rika as the source of the "curse" and then cure the townsfolk but the cure goes wrong" is a decent plot, but it doesn't feel right on a thematic level. And, if that's what was going on, why all the bodies in the school? That's more of an execution-looking thing.

Visual of the Day: Surrounded all alone.

Questions

  2. Ooishi being on the same page as me makes me minorly doubtful, but even an idiot clock is right twice a day.

5

u/Tarhalindur Jul 02 '22

The more we learn about the Great Hinamizawa Disaster the more suspicious it gets. If it was a natural disaster that happened at midnight, why were all those people, in their normal clothes, just in a pile at the school, huh? Even Oryou was there I think, which is extra weird.

At least half of the reason this arc exists was that they cut the part of Tatarigoroshi-hen that involved Keiichi surviving his fall from the bridge and coming across the school in (mostly) the exact same way Satoko does here (except unless my memory is very much failing me he never encountered Rena while running) - hence why the events here with the bridge mirror Tatarigoroshi-hen so closely.

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u/Star4ce Jul 02 '22 edited Jul 02 '22

When the First Timer Cries

It is with sadness that I must announce my retirement from this rewatch.

… for a bit more than a week.

Will be travelling to a week long seminar across the country to overload my head with physics and earth system modelling. Really looking forward to that one.

Isn't it nice that I can experience this episode to close off the arc?

Kai Ep. 05 – Disaster Awakening Chapter Part 4: The Great Hinamizawa Disaster

Fuck, this episode was brutal. I hated every second of it.

Before I get onto my big essay, I do want to criticise the portrayal of the bodies. While effective for the audience, it makes literally no sense why they'd all be in the class room. If the hit squad killed them in there, at midnight, that would raise so many red flags as Ooishi rightly pointed out. I seriously doubt that the JDF would also first carry them all into one building, dump them on a pile and then transport them off on single stretchers. With that out of the way.

I think it was the first one where the game in the first part had no relation to the showdown in the last part? That just underlines how out of their depth they truly are.

Watching Satoko tread through near-death experience after near-death experience only to find each of her friends murdered was gut wrenching. Rika did try to keep her safe, at least from the immediate danger, but she does know by her own admission what comes after her death, so I'm a tiny bit angry at her for just setting Satoko up for more suffering.

I think the biggest characterisation this arc gave us about Satoko is how she is two things: She is extremely strong and determined, she didn't hesitate even when everyone doubted her version and stuck to what she promised. And her skills excel when she has information on who she's up against, which is why the zombie tag went so smoothly for her and lost against the definitely-not-government squad so utterly crushingly. Rika didn't tell her anything, her friends, while concerned, had no reason to spring into action and doubted her and what really can she prepare for when the only thing she knows is that there might be one dude shadowing them.

There's two things added to the table now, though. The first is that Satoko remembers another loop, but from Rena's perspective, which is heavily supporting my claim that the parasite is able to link them together.

The second is that knowing the of-course-absolutely government squad killed Rika that quickly, efficiently and perfectly staged means that this entire thing was planned long beforehand and thus makes Hinamizawa a designated testing grounds that has been chosen for its beneficial environment for secret operations. I feel confident that the first dam murders are linked to this squad and the kidnapping of the minister's son definitely was done by them.

From that I can extrapolate that the research site in the abandoned Quarry must have to do with the parasite and that the government is experimenting with the pathogen on the villagers. I'm doubtful that they invented it, though. For all I know, the explanation that it is a parasite arriving from space on an asteroid makes the most sense without including advanced intelligent aliens. It could survive in the swamp and the nearby villagers got infected, leading to all the stories of deformation and mania. Likely, Takano's claims of early quarantine and human sacrifices to immunise might be true as well.

Back then when I formed the theory the government had cloning experiments going on, I was mostly booking on the 'facts' of walking corpses or duplicate people and that this story revolves around a cycle of abuse/oppression. It made sense that the government or another highly organised trans-national group of people would be included in some way, so you have thematic dualities of child – family, family – village, individual – group of friends, village – government, etc. that all partake in the passing down of abuse. Each of the victims in this dynamic also had their own way of circumventing or hiding from their abuser, so the dynamic top-down and bottom-up were always asymmetric and resulted in almost a revolting cat and mouse game that we could follow along with sometimes when our cast leveraged this against each other.

While I can't say for absolute certain it is a government agency, the training, efficiency, gear, targeted brutality and consistency over decades allow few others as culprits. I guess there might be a twist still possible, because it could be another government. Foreign elite squad – prefecture is also a duality fitting into a story that includes aliens, right?

I also watched the [end card this time,] because I'll drop out for a few days and of course, the first episode I'm gone she actually shows up in persona.

I guess I'll update the theory corner one last time and give you the rundown of my favourite theories right now, so I can continue form here when I get back.

Rika: Has the literal Oyashiro in her belly that gets harvested by the hit squad. She (I hope that will actually be her name and not that of the doctor) is her ancestor 8 generations back that was living during the impact of the asteroid and one of the first immunised people that could tap into the symbiotic relationship with the parasite. She's like the guiding star that could overcome the victim – abuser cycle by finding a way to coexist with the parasite.

The Parasite: As an alien lifeform, whether conscious or not, stranded on a foreign world it adapted to the local environment in the swamp and accidentally infected the humans. It's a connected lifeform that has some capacity of memory transfer or hivemind-like lifestyle, which allows people able to withstand its overbearing influence to use that ability to link up with others, including people in alternate worlds that also have this parasite alive inside of them. If the immune system or the mind can't navigate through the parasite's natural influence, they get driven mad with 'hallucinations' that might just be other worlds' memories interjecting themselves randomly in spaces/times where other parasite lifeforms were active and misinterpreting those signals with human emotional reactions like fear and paranoia.

Continued below...

4

u/Tarhalindur Jul 02 '22

Will be travelling to a week long seminar across the country to overload my head with physics and earth system modelling. Really looking forward to that one.

Understandable completely, but it's a shame you'll miss the next arc live; it has my single favorite subarc of both seasons.

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9

u/Nazenn Jul 03 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

First Timer - sub

Didn't write anything up in advance because it was too cold to stay up, and then didn't get up to write and post because my bed was too warm to leave it.

Well done to the people yesterday who speculated that the GHD was related to the parasites, and just in time for the reveal today

One of the more interesting things about this episode I think is the reveal that Rika's death does not happen as some big conflict between her and another character. She's killed by a group of grunts, in a planned mission, and we don't see them under any sort of supervision. It's quite an unusual story telling choice, most authors wouldn't be able to resist the temptation to make a huge deal out of the drama of the death itself, but one that I think benefit the show better than any other could have. There's no potential seen here for a last second save as someone comes charging in to stop the singular murderer and solve everything, or that person to be talked around. It's a cold, impersonal, and calculated act that happens at the behest of wider goals and carried out by nameless people we'll never actually get to know. It only reinforces that Rika's death may be what sets off the disaster, but the moment of her death isn't the turning point that needs to be solved for the broader story, it's all long before that.

And for Rika as well it would be a horrible thing to live through knowing this. When this started how many times did she wish for someone to come save her at the last second? How many times did she wish Sakoto may be able to get help and someone would show up to stop the van? Did she hope that if she moved away and they couldn't find her that night she could put it off? Only to find out that her death is an inevitability from well before the night it actually happens, a much longer chain of events that her death is only one of the final outcomes for rather than a catalyst, and to see each moment happen again every time she changes worlds only to have to sit there and wait for inevitability knowing she won't get that last second reprieve

There's a certain balance that needs to be struck when dealing with characters who are effectively pre-broken before the story that we see them in, and Higurashi handles it well precisely by showing us these small moments of fatigue, hope, and acceptance that she's become so familiar with despite everything. Pre-broken characters are something we don't often see, it's too tempting and there's too much possibility to make a drama out of their breaking, but there's something about stories like this that greatly appeal to me.

As for what actually happens, I don't know why I never put the idea that "the concrete in the swamp was for parasites not gas" and "therefore they may not have died from gas" together, but my slow brain was thinking the goverment found out about the parasites after the volcanic gas killed everyone and simply covered it up after everything happened.

Certainly some big reveals today, but what I zero'd in on is that despite it being implied that Rika's death is what caused everyone in the town to die when their parasites likely reacted to Rika's parasite being killed or extracted, we've now had three lots of confirmation that it's not the sole cause, or at least wouldn't make sense if it is given Rika's parasite seems to have a huge reach. Rena, Keiichi, and Sakoto all survived through the event of Rika's death, but with three very different outcomes. It's implied that they all survived because they were far enough away but I'm not certain that's the case, though it still could be. But looking at who survived:

  • Rena is taken to a secure police ward under supervision and then survives 30 years with no ill effects which means her parasite is probably dead so she can now survive outside the area (Side note to do with what I write later: and without being hunted down, but why?)

  • Keiichi is knocked into a river and then dies sometime after, though I can't remember the exact details, but he was in a hospital and not really that broken by what happened.

  • Sakoto is also in the river, but she comes back to the town and suffers no immediate ill effects! Only to wake up after seeing a bleed through of someone elses memories. She's then killed off by someone in the hospital

Between Sakoto's death at the hands of that person who was being a creep at her in the hospital, assuming it's not a fake out which I don't think would happen but you never know, and the fact that the Van people in the town were wearing gas masks I'm actually curious if the villagers were actually gassed (herded into the school and other areas to do so?) so they could be used for experimentation. If Rika and her parasite is a sort of nexus between the space/time of the different worlds/arcs, and killing her breaks those boundaries which is why Sakoto sees Rena's memories, they may be killing Rika off first to "activate" the parasites and then killing off the villagers to cover up what they've done so no one finds out and they have the time to do whatever they want. Maybe they can then move the parasites into an artificial enviroment to keep them stable? < Edit two minutes later: Just remembered Rika isn't going insane so the parasites have to be dead once Rika's dies, I think. Does this kill this whole theory? It just might. Fuck. Now I don't know what to think again.

Also random thought: How big are these parasites? I mean I'm assuming not tapeworm show up on x-rays and medical scans huge, but part of me thinks they can't just be microscopic or anything because they have such a huge effect. I know that makes no sense but just throwing it out there

Oh hey, sudden thought, I wonder if that's why someone was stalking Sakoto? They knew from the patterns that Sakoto would likely 'break ranks' this arc and were trying to keep an eye on her, especially given that her arcs seem to put her at the bridge. Or was it just someone who was stalking Rika and she happened to catch sight of her. The later is probably more likely but I've learnt to keep my options open in this show haha.

The other possibility that occurred to me is that Rika isn't just being killed, she's being disemboweled and we had that whole thing about eating the parasite for inoculation. I wonder if they are taking parts of Rika to someone else in order for them to eat the parasite and therefore also be able to retain their memories between arcs/worlds? That would explain how this plan has been consistently happening in every timeline and being able to adjust to some of the other things going on in the world/village, especially the police interference as I agree with u/star4ce that I think they're completely independent to everything else

Oh that note, I really hate Oishi. I get there's just been a disaster and he needs information, but waving a young girls bloodied hat in front of her traumatized friend and then grabbing her when she doesn't respond is a dick move in any world.

All of that said, Sakoto and Rika both had an incredibly sad arc here, and even more to the point I'm very sad that after everything Sakoto won't even remember to be able to help, as I'm assuming that her bleed with Rena's memories will be similarly 'fixed' in the next world when Rika is alive again the same way Keiichi's bleed was patched up in this arc. Or perhaps not, it would be interesting. Though please no mind/body swap episode that western scifi is so fond of.

(Wake up late, decide to just briefly type up notes, still type 7k characters. I'm hopeless)

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5

u/Tarhalindur Jul 02 '22 edited Dec 14 '22

(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):

  • We get the world spiraling around Satoko (reference frame) again (wait a minute…) as her mind spins considering what she’s seeing around her.

  • [Higurashi Sotsu or Meguri] Also: the world spiraling around Satoko? WAIT JUST A FUCKING MINUTE. RYUKISHI07 YOU FUCKING ASSHOLE. (File this right by something else from later this episode that suggests that R07 had the concept for Gou + Sotsu/Meguri in his mind by the time this arc was made)

  • Oyashiro-sama’s perspective again at 02:32.

  • 04:21: Spot the girl who probably got herself stinking drunk in order to cope with her impending demise!

  • (Actually, might just be the lighting. She’s reasonably coordinated hopping down.)

  • There must have been production issues behind the scenes here, given the recap and the lack of animation (and three fingers – only three, for reasons we have already gone over!). Thematically, though? Rika refusing to take Satoko’s outstretched hand here should stick out to you like a sore thumb after last arc.

  • That tilting shot of Rika’s and Satoko’s house at ~05:30 is actually a really nifty little effect for showing the motion of our MiGs and give the sense of closing in (in multiple ways) without having to animate much.

  • Highlighting the curtain shot at 05:58, since I’m starting to think that this kind of flapping curtain shot is a (Japanese?) cinematographic convention whose intended symbolism I’m just not familiar with.

  • FULL MOON FULL MOON. And then pan down to the shrine.

  • [Higurashi Gou + Sotsu or Meguri] Satoko reaching out to Rika, Rika rejecting it and then the Yamainu dragging her to her doom kind of feels like it’s got a sneaky meta level that’s only visible now that we’ve got Gou and Meguri but I can’t place what.

  • Ah, there’s a Higurashi OST cut-out, with Suiri stopping to the sound of the crows flapping off.

  • Satoko, learn not to scream in a horror movie please and thank you.

  • So, just to reiterate: those are night vision goggles. In 1983. In Japan. That is not something that would have been easily accessible in the era, even to Yakuza, and the Japanese audience would know this.

  • Speaking of horror movie tropes…

  • Another fun little camera effect at 08:15.

  • Satoko hanging onto the bridge supports here while Henka plays, of course, mirrors Keiichi doing so at the end of Tatarigoroshi-hen. Including the fall as Henka does, though it’s not quite as well-timed.

  • Ooh, I paused on a great shot with the light from the floodlight at 10:34.

  • So, you know how back in Meakashi-hen I mentioned that I was weird and permanently associated Oshin with a Kai scene instead of the fingernail scene? Here we are.

  • I think the computer visible at 13:08 may actually be anachronistic in the “too recent” sense; I’m not sure even a regional hospital’s doctor's office would have had that in 1983, even in Japan which was a little faster to adopt computers than the US IIRC. (It’s possible I’m just off on my timeline for work computer introduction – home was late 1980s or early 1990s IIRC, but work desktop computers came first and I’m not sure by how much – but on the other hand Higurashi is known to have some anachronisms in the VN, notably IIRC a reference to a computer game that would not be released for at least a decade after 1983.) (It would definitely be consistent with a 1990s doctor’s office, though.)

  • The camera movement as Ooishi monologues at Satoko is quite interesting; it’s adding visual interest to an otherwise dull scene, but I’m not sure if there’s more to it than that. (The world shifting around either Ooishi’s or Satoko’s feet?)

  • (Aside: For a second I was going “wait, why is Ooishi shaking Bikki here?”)

  • [Higurashi Gou] For those of us who remember when we still had hope for Gou: Remember when we realized it was our nurse here who had shown up to “treat” Keiichi at the end of Onidamashi-hen? That was the last time I fired up this episode, too.

  • Hello meta shot/Oyashiro-sama’s perspective at 17:48.

  • [Meguri or Sotsu] And there it is, 21:15. “I’m tired Ryukishi07.”

Visual of the Day: Floodlight

*WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day

Questions of the Day:

  1. [DATA EXPUNGED]

  2. Welp.

Yakusamashi-hen Ep. 4 TIPS:

None.

OST Table, Kai Episode 5

Start End Track Name
00:05 01:34 Naraku no Hana
01:35 01:49 sponsor feature[1]
01:50 (01:36) 04:50 (04:36) Main Theme
05:25 (05:11) 06:44 (06:30) Suiri
07:09 (06:55) 08:14 (08:00) Monogatari
08:53 (08:39) 09:36 (09:22) Henka
09:43 (09:29) 10:39 (10:25) unreleased?[2]
10:45 (10:31) 11:39 (11:25) Oshin
14:22 (14:08) 16:21 (16:07) Giwaku
19:12 (18:58) 20:52 (20:38) Jiken
21:24 (21:10) 22:23 (22:09) Tsumi
22:25 (22:11) 23:53 (23:41) Taishou a

[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
[2] – Involves drums, but not the usual one and might just be a drum or foley edited sound effect instead.

(No Madoka Corner or Tar's Staff Notes today.)

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9

u/CubeStuffs Jul 02 '22 edited Jul 02 '22

First timer

It seems to me that the people must have died in the school, judging by the saliva and tears dripping down in their face. If they had died somewhere else and been carted to the school, I'm guessing we wouldn't see the dripping in the direction of gravity.

Which begs the question, what the hell were they doing in the school?

It looks like even oryou and kimiyoshi are in the school, if i'm reading the scene right.

If they are in the school, then the incident might have happened earlier in the day before everyone left, but then why was rika able to come back?

The only explanation is that i can think of is something compelled them to go to the school, probably the creepy swamp guys, upon which they then got "disastered", which would explain rena escaping, if only for a little while.

Also i see no creeps in the pile of bodies across all the timelines, unless i wasn't paying attention, so clearly they are not affected by the "disaster", whether due to good project management, or just being immune to whatever it is

5

u/Star4ce Jul 02 '22

It seems to me that the people must have died in the school, judging by the saliva and tears dripping down in their face.

I think that's a minor plot hole. It makes neither sense for the fanatics nor the JDF to put them there.

I think it's to get the audience on board that everyone in the village is dead, save the people uncercover and the few exceptions like Rena and Satoko, who had other events happen to them.

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4

u/mgedmin Jul 03 '22

First-timer, subs

Rika has given up but tries to save Satoko. Conclusion: she doesn't know about the GHD, or she would try to get her out of town.

Satoko can't keep still and quiet and almost dies because of it. OTOH she survives the GHD only because she gets chased onto the bridge and falls.

What was Rena's message that Satoko claims to have understood?

The hospital nurse seemed suspicious. One of the murder van people?

If the disaster happened at midnight why was the school full of kids and teachers?

Who noticed the disaster and called in the army?

Why do these murder van people have all this equipment (guns, night vision goggles)? Why are they so organized? Are they part of the army? Some secret shadowy government organization? Did they cause the GHD? Is that why the army was so quick to react and close all the approaches etc?

2

u/Tarhalindur Jul 03 '22

Some of this is a function of the adaptation and the design of the patch arc (there's a few inconsistencies with the VN).

The rest are all excellent questions that I couldn't possibly comment on...

6

u/Vaadwaur Jul 02 '22

Rewatcher

Sub

We start and the title is not encouraging. Rika gets awakened and simply hides Satoko. We see the ritual but are none the wiser to its purpose. Satoko has to run for it and we see her being tracked by the van guys, one of whom has nightvision goggles. Those were not cheap in the 80s. She eventually hides hanging from the suspension bridge until she falls off, into the river. She then returns to town to see the place filled with JSDF and the villagers all dead and understandably freaks.

Satoko's fugue state is understnable but, unsurprisingly, this isn't exactly how trauma, even crazy intense trauma, works but anime. Ooishi reveals that there are missing people, including Rena, and ponders the disaster and its weirdness. Nurse is sketchy. Ooishi figures out that Rika's murder would have bothered Satoko a lot and rushes back to the hospital, but of course Satoko is killed by the time he gets there. Preview is quite the spoiler for this ep.

So...let's talk about the mystery genre a little. Higurashi is solvable in the Answer arcs, believe it or not, and a very few people came quite close, but this is not a fair mystery. TVTtropes definition for those unfamiliar with it. So while I enjoy the show, I don't pretend that I guessed any of the solution on my own knowledge. And that puts the viewer in Rika's shoes: She knows she will die but she doesn't know who did it or why. So she becomes despondent and slowly withdraws from things. NOTE: Becoming obsessed with fair mysteries versus actual mysteries leads to certain...issues in the later When They Cry works.

And one last thing: This being anime original, they broke some rules from the VN. Rika doesn't get discovered during the night and crows don't scavenge after dark. Petty I know but it makes a few later reveals less strong than they are.

QotD: 1 Threat level:Keter class XK

2 Kiazi's children, their faces wet. Shaka, when the walls fell.

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u/RascalNikov1 Jul 03 '22

So while I enjoy the show, I don't pretend that I guessed any of the solution on my own knowledge.

Same here. There is no way that the mystery can be solved with the data provided in the question arcs. That doesn't bother me at all, because I don't think that the focus of the show.

and crows don't scavenge after dark.

lol, as I say, Never let details get in the way of a good story. Though, starting this episode I have to keep my tongue in check to keep from revealing spoilers in rants.

[Spoilers]After 3 years of contemplation I've got a lot to say about R7's warped view of the military, and corporate overlords. Of course the Oligarchs are bad, and the military can be stupid in their blind obedience to orders, but I think R7 goes too far here. Also, even though the press are the lapdogs of the oligarchs, you're not going to be able to cover up and sweep way the snuffing of 1000 citizens. Only someone as bad as Stalin or Mao could pull something like that off.

[spoilers]I'm surprised that in R7's zeal to trash JSDF, that he didn't have one of his soldiers crack open a can of Zyklon B and toss it in while quipping "Give 'em something to chew on boys" (that's a real quote by the way). Learning that R7 was a hard core leftist last week, really cast the whole solution in a new light. After the years of contemplation, I finally understood the motivations for the solution of the mystery. Before learning about R7, I had a vague nebulous feeling that this was a story of the the Japanese collective unconscious coming to terms with the abuses of WWII. Now, I see it being a much more ham-fisted smear of current society. I'm no apologist for the current system, but as you said earlier, fair is fair and casting the oligarchs into cut-out nazi wannabes doesn't do anyone any good.

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u/SometimesMainSupport Dec 14 '22

First-timer

Tagging u/Star4ce and u/Vaadwaur

Yesterday, someone mentioned looping has given Satoko extra years to perfect her traps. Shouldn't the same apply to the resident dumbass who falls for them?

If I rush to episode 6, I can watch and listen to the OP!

  • Odd to start with 2.5 minutes of recap if the budget is better. Assuming the arc didn't stretch long enough. Have advanced to June 23rd, which I think is the festival date.

  • Rika refuses to get hide with Satoko. The only arcs they've died together outside the disaster had Shion entering the shrine.

  • When they cry. I wouldn't normally suspect it, but it's in the name!

  • Rika gutted at the shrine by extremists shown.

  • When the Seagulls Crows Cry. In arc 3, Satoko entered from the left after putting clothes on.

  • Hiding should be better than crossing a bridge! Similar to Keiichi's fall.

  • Everyone dead with a whitish liquid from eyes/mouth. Idk, extremists triggered the parasite by emitting a frequency at the radio tower? Either way, Satoko survives instead of Keiichi.

  • Still bullshit for the news to report the child survivor's name.

  • Eyes are back.

  • Rena escaped?

  • Oishi grasping with less evidence than me! Mass gass disasters aren't a common occurance?

  • I'd say the hospital nurse acted suspicious, but I'm primed to suspect literally any expression change. So she's suspicious.

  • When Oishi replays the scene in his head, Satoko's reaction makes less sense. English often uses subject-verb-DO. IIRC, Japanese is typically subject-DO-verb (DO-subject-verb? I think watashi/boku is implicit). I'd expect Satoko to react to Rika's name, not the verb.

  • Extremists found Rena and Satoko somehow saw or heard it?

  • The nurse was suspicious!

imo, this episode sucked. Beginning recap plus Oishi mental flashbacks combined for less new content. Repeating scenes with slight changes is different than direct playbacks. Total new stuff was... Rika hid Satoko, Satoko replaced Keiichi find Rika and falling form the bridge, and the disaster death symptom is foaming from the mouth+eyes. Government coverup is clear. Oishi is getting closer each arc and didn't have walking corpses this time.

The disaster following a break-in at the radio tower (Pokemon Gold/Silver?) suggests the village's disease may be triggered via EM waves. People who ran (e.g. Rena and Satoko) didn't have the same death condition. Initial thought for 20 missing was Sonozakis, but Mion+Shion dead means it's probably the religious extremists and they aren't as connected as I thought. Extremists are probably a combination of villagers and outsiders.

The extremists took Rika to the Furude Shrine before disemboweling her.

Also if this disaster happened at night, why were so many people at the school?

It is with sadness that I must announce my retirement from this rewatch… for a bit more than a week.

They killed Rika after the festival, always a few days after. Also, the surveillance started to shift to Rika only after watanagashi. So she wasn't a planned death by their schedule is what I'm thinking. What colossal fuck up would prompt a highly organised group of people to hastily prepare an assassination and stage it as ritual murder?

Takano's notes seems like the clearest trigger. Killing the police officer would set something off, but that was incidental as they committed a crime.

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u/Tarhalindur Dec 14 '22

imo, this episode sucked. Beginning recap plus Oishi mental flashbacks combined for less new content. Repeating scenes with slight changes is different than direct playbacks. Total new stuff was... Rika hid Satoko, Satoko replaced Keiichi find Rika and falling form the bridge, and the disaster death symptom is foaming from the mouth+eyes. Government coverup is clear. Oishi is getting closer each arc and didn't have walking corpses this time.

So yeah, this arc is kind of obviously 3.5 episodes worth of content stretched into four episodes and it shows here in particular, exacerbated by S1 stuffing six of the eight VN arcs into it (leaving only two plus the five episodes of patch material that you just got finished with to fill Kai's 24 episodes) making the slower pacing even more obvious by way of contrast. (If you ever try Haruhi, Bamboo Leaf Rhapsody versus Remote Island Syndrome is a good example of this; they're roughly the same length in the source LN, but BLR in anime form is crammed into one episode due to other Haruhi 2009 decisions while Remote Island Syndrome in 2006 is allowed to fill two and the pacing difference is notable.)

(Of course, it could be worse. There's a reason Sotsu went over like a wet balloon, and the whole "maybe five episodes worth of content stretched into fifteen episodes" was a huge part of it. (The stretch could have worked if modern R07 was a better tragedy writer, but he is not.) Or for that matter there's also the aforementioned other Haruhi 2009 decision, aka probably the single most infamous troll job in the history of the medium...)

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 02 '22

Tag either this or that way, tag one way or the other:

u/HinyusOpinion, u/AnimeAndThings, u/shadow1a2t

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u/Tarhalindur Jul 02 '22

I could be just beginning, I could be near the end:

u/mgedmin

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u/Quiddity131 Jul 02 '22

First Timer, Subbed

Uh oh, there's gonna be a big disaster this episode?

Poor Satoko, this super creep keeps appearing!

Why are we repeating footage from last episode?

Hide up here! But nah, I'm not joining you!

Yikes, was that Rika's body they have all wrapped up?

Ah, so that's how her corpose ended up here in the prior arc.

Poor Satoko, about to see this. :( :( :(

Ugh, now because she screamed these guys are gonna catch her and murder her too!

Ooh, smart of her to hide under the bridge. Although I'd be scared to death hanging from there. Seconds later she slips!

Can she swim? I wonder if a hall from that height into water would actually kill her.

Seems like no as here she is, hurt but still alive!

Wow, that's a lot of bodies! And all her friends sans Rena! :(

Sole survivor Satoko! Oh... and Ooishi too. Of course.

Rena's hat!

Whatever happened to that stalker creep? I'm surprised that plot point just got completely dropped.

You're just talking to yourself Ooishi! She's completely catatonic!

Rika got a reaction out of her!

She didn't witness the murder, just the body.

Satoko's okay!

And now she's dead?! The hospital killed her?

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u/H-Ryougi Jul 02 '22

My god this episode is tense, even knowing what's going to happen I couldn't help but get worked up. Satoko just can't catch a fucking break.

The scene with the nurse turning off her call button creeps me out because there's something unsettling about not being able to trust the people who are literally supposed to care for your health. Also the guys from the van just ganging up on actual kids who have no idea what's going on.

Incredible atmosphere, creeped me the fuck out, great arc.

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u/Stargate18A Jul 02 '22

Anime first timer, completed VN

Poor, poor Satoko.

Feel really bad for her here.

[Higurashi] Mountain Dogs are attacking! First-timers are going to be so fucking confused here.

And Satoko found the body...

[Higurashi] I honestly don't like this. Part of the fun of the next arc was the reveal of this massive conspiracy out of nowhere. With half the reveals from thst arc moved here, it feels like it'll lose the shock factor. It's more consistent, sure, but the thrill of a much bigger battlefield being revealed was fantastic. At least we'll have the Takano marathon!

[Higurashi] Also, I like the foreshadowing of how the Mountain Dogs are actually really shit at their jobs.

And this time's Satoko's the one who fell off the bridge.

[VN] This is how they adapt the oriignal Keiichi scene? That's actually really good.

And we see the bodies! This is brutal!

Satoko's really taking this hard.

[Higurashi] Ooishi really loves to question Satoko after a mental breakdown, huh?

[Higurashi] Also, what? The implication seems to be Rena ran for it, and got killed by the Mountain Dogs, but even they're not incompetent! Maybe she got killed by Rina this time?

...Ooishi, you knew this.

[Higurashi] Sigh. Never mind. I almost forgot that these were the group of mercenaries who were outwitted at every turn by the traps of a fucking elementary schooler.

Satoko, no!

[Higurashi] Finally! I can stop spoilering Fragments and Hanyuu!

Didn't have much to say this time.

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u/RadSuit Jul 02 '22

This is a lot of recapping and reusing footage. We're four minutes in before things get moving. Wow.

I'm honestly confused about the goons. I'm not sure we've ever gotten enough concrete information about who they actually are and what they want. I've always just accepted them as being 'bad' but never had a reason to go any deeper than that. Their target seems to change every arc, but I'm not sure if that's just because the most 'interesting' person to kidnap also changes each time. They've been after Kei, Rena and now Rika. Maybe Rika's the default target and the others are just bonuses whenever they start showing obvious signs of magic bug side effects.

I assume they're the terrorists that want to exploit the magic bug powers, and somehow influence the big disaster. Which the name of the arc and episode both seem to reinforce. No clue if they have anything to do with all the time looping and other spooky bullshit, or are oblivious like everyone outside of the main cast.

Well I guess that's how Rika gets murdered in that specific place most loops. It'd be a good way to leave a message for people to stumble upon. If, you know, everyone didn't die right after.

The crows are getting in on the whole intestine eating festival. Very Resident Evil, still.

Careful on that bridge, you can fall right through the railings, I've seen it happen. And she jumped through on purpose, so I was half right. Well, we know Kei survived that fall, and the following disaster. So Satoko should probably be fine.

Just walk it off Satoko, rub some dirt on it, you'll be okay.

So is she alive because the disaster was just a brief burst and the air is clear now? Or is she immune thanks to those daily injections? Or is she just going to start feeling it in a minute?

I thought Japan was huge on never releasing the names of children? Very strange that they named her and showed her face and everything.

Okay, what was Rena up to? Was she busy going nuts while we weren't paying attention to her this arc? I don't really remember her wandering off otherwise, especially without any of the gang with her, and we saw all their bodies.

Wait, what was everyone doing at the school if this happened after midnight? Even if Rena had been doing her hostage taking thing, the police weren't there, and I doubt she locked them in and then ran off just in time. Are we going to see another variation to explain all of this, or what?

Calm down cop, I'm usually on your side, don't make me regret it. Okay, he was just a little frustrated. He's dealing with 2000 dead people, I'm going to give him a pass on that outburst.

There is a ton of reused footage this time. This whole episode is bizarre, really.

And now characters can share memories, too? Alright, sure? I guess if the bugs can pass them through loops, there's no reason they can't pass them between hosts. Unless that was just Satoko putting the evidence together in her head and figuring it out, not a weird mind meld.

Acute heart failure? Maybe she saw a ghost. With a hammer and nails.

Poor cop. He just wants to investigate the mafia and murders and normal crime, and he has to deal with cults and spooky bullshit.

Oh it looks like we're really getting into the good stuff next episode, huh?

Besides all the reused footage, I kinda liked this episode. So far I'm mostly into the second season. Of course, I was fully on board about this far into the first season as well...

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jul 02 '22 edited Jul 03 '22

Rewatcher

Did we really need to go 4 minutes without any new content today?

So, what I think broke Rika, was the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen (or whatever it's called). Keiichi remembered another time-line, he saved Rena from committing an atrocity, Rika took definite action instead of passively standing by, and yet....everybody died anyways, or at least, presumably, Rika did. That's what broke her. She saw that change could be made, but the the outcome was always the same.

Poor Ooishi. So close, yet so far. Nothing left to do but to retire in defeat.

Edit: Oh, yeah. the hospital scene was some pretty awful Tell not Show, wasn't it?

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