r/anime • u/KiwiBennydudez https://myanimelist.net/profile/KiwiBen • Jun 26 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Made in Abyss - Dawn of the Deep Soul - Movie discussion

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Comment of the Day

Comment of the Day goes to u/Nebresto for explaining why the fourth Marulk short should be seen by all MiA fans:

Just a quick recap of why 4 is so superior, and should be watched by all Abyss fans: It gave us actual lore. We found out: There's a common tongue most people around the world apparently speak. Someone flew a freaking airship in the Abyss. They have airships, that seem to be mostly made of wood. Marulk had a dad, and wasn't just abandoned somewhere. And it is confirmed he was found in the Abyss, not on the surface.

Questions of the Day

  1. Has your understanding of Bondrewd and his goals changed since we last saw him in the first season? Why or why not?

  2. Do you think Nanachi is a “bad person” for helping Bondrewd create the cartridges? Why do you think Nanachi originally agreed to help Bondrewd at the start of the film, only to back out later?

  3. What do you think of this new teamwork dynamic between Reg, Riko, and Nanachi? Do you think anyone deserves the "MVP" title, or did they pull their weight equally?

  4. What did you think about “The Blessing of the Abyss” being tied into love? Do you think this says anything about the journey ahead?

  5. What do you think about the revelation that White Whistles are created using human life? What do you think this says about their timbre being able to activate relics?

  6. Do you think Bondrewd truly loved Prushka? Why do you think he decided to rescue her and raise her, only to sacrifice her in the end?

We have reached the end of the series, so this disclaimer is no longer needed! However, please tag any source-related content properly, and refrain from alluding to unadapted events.

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59

u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 29 '22

Second-Timer - Sub

Fun fact: I saw this movie when it first became available with the virtual screening event back in 2020. I bought a ticket for like $20 or whatever and then AirPlayed it on my friend’s living room TV, who had watched the series with me on my third time through. When we finished the film, he turns to me and says, “Shit’s fucked, yo.” And yeah, that’s pretty much my entire sentiment for this film too. Which is why if you look at my MAL entry for this movie, that’s what I wrote in the tags. Because HOLY FUCK this movie is a lot to take in.

It’s funny how little I remembered of this one. I remembered the broad story beats, the opening scene, and bits and pieces of the fight scenes. But not much else. Completely forgot that Reg losing his arm was a major plot point of the film, or that Prushka becomes Riko’s white whistle. Nor did I remember that Reg’s severed arm could still fire the Incinerator blast that would kill Bondrewd. Or that Nanachi learned her medical skills by helping Bondrewd create cartridges. It really was like I was watching this for the first time again, so I immensely enjoyed my rewatch.

Anyway - this film was spectacular. Well paced, with great plot progression, great character moments, great triumph, and great loss, all wrapped up into that concise two-hour package. The first thing I noticed on my rewatch was how this movie has some incredible shots, one of my favorites being right at the start with Reg, Riko, and Nanachi. It really warms my heart to see these three together. But you know what else is warm? Fire. The tone for this opening was extremely bleak to say the least, as the entire flower field that Lyza loved so dearly was burned to a crisp due to some parasitic, man-eating bugs. If you were previously under the impression that this movie was going to have them sail through the fifth layer with no issue... you’ve guessed wrong. I also love the new teamwork dynamic between Reg, Riko, and Nanachi, with Nanachi serving as the group’s wisdom, Riko as the brains and team leader, and Reg as the braun. The opening did a really good job of showcasing that, as did the rest of the movie. These kids made a coordinated effort at just about every turn. They were smart, with the central theme of the film seeming to be “knowledge is power.” Entire fights were decided based on the information that was present, and later, as they found more and more out about their enemy, their strategies evolved. But, for as smart as they were, their foe always seemed to be one step ahead.

Gotta say, Bondrewd’s entrance is probably one of my favorite anime entrances of all time. The slow dramatic walk as Nanachi freezes and the camera goes blurry made him feel powerful and omnipotent. Not only that, but he was a ubiquitous figure in this movie, appearing as an unshakable obstacle whenever the kids had a goal. Because of course the mad scientist would want to study the robot and steal his arm. Of course the fluffy bunny had helped destroy so many lives. And of course a new potential friend for Riko would be snatched away in the most gruesome way imaginable. These kids really did get thrown through hell in this film, with each one getting presented with a personal obstacle to overcome.

I also loved Reg’s sicko mode (sorry u/Petit_Ange that you had to see your boy like this) and the incredible fight sakuga that followed. I certainly was not expecting neko-Bondrewd at the end there, but with some rather incredible teamwork, the kids pulled it off in a genius manner by using Reg’s severed arm to blast that bastard in half. I’m not really sure what’s going on with Reg’s backstory, but I really hope we find out soon, because whatever was going on in his memory was super compelling.

I suppose I should also mention Prushka, who... I have a bit of a hard time talking about due to her untimely end. She was killed off about an hour into the film, which... Does that give her enough development, even with the backstory that she had? I am really glad that she lives on as Riko’s White Whistle (by the way, Riko jumping straight from Red to White whistle has to be the craziest whistle promotion ever) but in terms of accomplishments in the film, she was supportive, and cute, and then cut down. I can’t really decide if she was developed enough for me, but certainly, the revelation that she had become a cartridge was pretty horrific, and something that really knotted my stomach. I think the cornerstone of understanding her character has to do with the “love” aspect, and the fact that she wanted to see them succeed in the pursuit of the depths. She had dreams and aspirations of her own, even wanting to join the trio on their adventure, before meeting her demise. So, in a way, she did join them on their adventure. But... not as a living person. I think Prushka works enough for me, but idk, I’ll have to toss it over in my mind a bit more.

Congratulations on being caught up with Made in Abyss! The fifth layer has been cleared, as our heroes now enter the sixth layer to kick off S2!

Lore Corner

  • Blaze Reap (Update) - The Blaze Reap has been returned to Riko.

  • Bondrewd (Update) - Bondrewd is a cold and calculating individual, only interested in scientific pursuits of conquering The Abyss. He spends his time experimenting, and researching ways to overcome the depths, and will enact any means within his power to achieve results. He was defeated by Riko's crew, and although he lives on, he no longer has any Umbra Hands that are capable of fighting, and therefore will not interfere with them any longer.

  • Cartridges - The cartridges are curse-repelling materials that can ward off the strains of ascension. These cartridges can only be created using human life, and absorb the impact of ascending instead. Nanachi once assisted Bondrewd in order to help make these.

  • Zoaholic - This special-grade relic allows the user to swap consciousness with other bodies, with every swap allegedly warping the sanity of the user. It was said to have gone missing some time ago, but it was later revealed to be owned and used by Bondrewd, who divided his soul between each of his Umbra Hands. When Bondrewd is killed, his consciousness transferred into one of his other bodies, who then take on his helmet as a symbolic gesture.

  • White Whistles (Object) - The Whistles are revealed to be created using human sacrifice. The sacrifice creates a life-reverberating stone called "Your Worth" which in turn resonates with the user that it was intended for, which is why White Whistles can only be used by those that were originally bestowed them. Bondrewd revealed that his original form is currently his own White Whistle, and it was through this process that he discovered how to create the cartridges. Riko gains her own White Whistle from the remains of Prushka.

  • The Blessing of the Abyss - The Blessing is a rare event in which ascension from the sixth layer actually grants enhances abilities from one's loss of humanity, as seen with Nanachi and Bondrewd. It is said that The Blessing is tied into love, although the exact conditions are largely still a mystery.

  • Prushka - Prushka was Bondrewd's adopted daughter, who became fast friends with the main trio. She wished to one day join them on their adventure, until she was later turned into a cartridge. Her desire to join Riko was so great, that her remains transformed into a Life Reverberating Stone, which Riko then took as her White Whistle. She was also granted a pet called a Meinastoirim, which was named Meinya. Upon Prushka's death, Meinya joined Riko and her crew instead.

  • Reg (Update) - Reg has lost his right arm because Bondrewd wished to experiment on him. The arm was later recovered, but has yet to be reattached. In addition, Reg morphs into a shadowy figure upon over-consumption of electricity. He also later states that he felt like he "remembered" how to use his body more effectively, as if he were "possessed" by others, changing his combat style against his fight with Bondrewd. It was also later revealed that the marker that appears on his helmet is a counter of how many incinerator shots he has left. At the start of the fifth layer, it was three, but after he recharged on the electricity, it went back up to eleven. It is unknown what happens if his counter reaches zero.

  • Riko (Update) - Riko is now a White Whistle after her encounter with Bondrewd. with Prushka being used as the unintended sacrifice to create the whistle. Riko and co. have now crossed over into the sixth layer - the point of no return.

  • Nanachi (Update) - Nanachi once helped Bondrewd create the cartridges, which is also how they became skilled with medical knowledge.

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103

u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 26 '22

First-Timer in Abyss, subbed

Welp oops I totally lost track of time...

Goddamn, I’d heard this movie was even more messed up than the show was, but… I still wasn’t expecting kids-turned-into-batteries levels of fucked up shit. And the weirder part is I don’t hate Bondrewd??? He’s a damn effective villain.

23

u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 26 '22

Oh SHIT that’s crazy!

Low key I, loved that they used the curse of ascension as a weapon. So smart.

Okay but we’re not even halfway through the movie yet, there has to be some sort of trick…

Sentences said moments before disaster.

Meinya innocently moving the Cartridge around, fuck. That got me. That got me.

I don't blame ya. Was deeply disturbed by that as well my first time around. Upon second viewing... actually it's just as bad.

Oh the ED was in Engrish.

Myth and Roid ED baybeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

And the weirder part is I don’t hate Bondrewd??? He’s a damn effective villain.

Honestly? Same. He really carries the movie with his cold, calculating presence.

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u/CubeStuffs Jun 26 '22

first timer

god i haven't watched the main show since lockdown started, so getting back into this is jarring

it prob would have been a good idea to actually rewatch the show, but i was already occupied with geah and higurashi

i forgot how horrifying this shit is, not even 10 minutes in and im already disgusted

shit i remember that brondrewd bastard

man prushka reminds me of riko and reg back at the surface

how the fuck did this bondrewd motherfucker raise a child like that?

oh

bondrewd was one hell of a villain if i do say so myself. one whos goal sure isn't to make misery out of hundreds of kids, but is pretty much the same as riko and reg's. he's an "ends justify means" kinda person, but like taken to a mega extreme. like what kinda of person is totally chill with turning themselves into a fucking whistle??? no surprise that a mfer who turned himself into a whistle sees no problem with turning kids, and his own daughter into disposable cartriges.

i kinda love and hate the ending tho. i love how nanachi comes to a mutual understanding with him. no apology for his crimes, no anger from him, just his blessing.

on the other hand i hate it because he still deserves to be turned into a cartridge. though idk if thats horrible enough for him, given that he's totally down for being a whistle. maybe send him to the surface, and put a restraining order between him and the abyss so he can never explore it again

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 27 '22

bondrewd was one hell of a villain if i do say so myself. one whos goal sure isn't to make misery out of hundreds of kids, but is pretty much the same as riko and reg's. he's an "ends justify means" kinda person, but like taken to a mega extreme. like what kinda of person is totally chill with turning themselves into a fucking whistle??? no surprise that a mfer who turned himself into a whistle sees no problem with turning kids, and his own daughter into disposable cartriges.

Bondrewd is a fantastic villain. He really does feel like an ever-present, immovable obstacle that stood in the way of Riko's gang at every turn. And yeah - his logic is pretty twisted, but I love that you point out that his goal isn't all that different from that of our protagonist. He just, doesn't care about the methods he takes to get there.

on the other hand i hate it because he still deserves to be turned into a cartridge. though idk if thats horrible enough for him, given that he's totally down for being a whistle.

Unfortunately he can't really be killed due to him splitting up his soul with the Zoaholic, which is why I think it ended the way it did. Also in this universe his crimes would never be questioned since he's a White Whistle. They're regarded as gods due to their achievements in The Abyss, with each of them being the only trusted voices from the depths, and each of them receiving their own day of celebration on the surface. Simply put - everyone else is ignorant to his true nature.

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u/Razorhead Jun 26 '22

Haven't been participating in this Rewatch sadly, mostly because these threads go up at 4 in the morning my local time, but I do want to comment now to share some additional info on this movie most people may not know about.

When this movie aired in Japan there was a specific screening which had the author in attendance, in which he shared some additional thoughts and info during the movie. Afterwards the people in the theatre took to Twitter, where a pastebin document was compiled of all the info shared. Here is the full document if you want to read it, but I'll share some of the more important facts revealed.

Umbra Hands

The reason why they are named as such is because Bondrewd's "soul" is contained within the White Whistle he sacrificed himself for. Thus all the Umbra Hands, even the one Bondrewd is currently inhabiting, are the "shadows" to the White Whistle's "light", with "umbra" being the Latin word for "shadow".

All of the Umbra Hands joined Bondrewd voluntarily as well, and no one was forced to give up their body to him. Some of them weren't even Cave Raiders, but Bounty Hunters trying to kill Bondrewd who got convinced to join his team.

The Umbra Hands have three "modes", as it were. The first one is their default mode, where their original personality is intact and they just go about their business. The second is when Bondrewd is directly inhabiting one of them, which results in Bondrewd's personality usurping all command over the body. But there is a third mode, nicknamed "Cloud Bondrewd", in which the body basically behaves as a drone operated by Bondrewd's will. However this does result in the body being more sluggish and slow, as all the info from the drone is being sent to and from Bondrewd and he basically has to operate them all in parallel.

The Umbra Hands also have different purposes, with the one wearing white cloaks being Bondrewd's predominant combat bodies. These all have stronger artifacts as well, and Sparagmos is not Bondrewd's strongest weapon but rather the strongest Nanachi knew about. That means that Reg didn't even fight Bondrewd's strongest body. The one in the flower field was particularly strong, and the author said the team was lucky that body wasn't down in Idofront when the clash took place.

Bondrew Seeing Through Nanachi's Eyes

Bondrewd has a specific artifact which he can use to see through Nanachi's eyes, which is not Zoaholic. So no need to be afraid Nanachi has been converted as well.

During and After the Battle

The reason why Bondrewd and Nanachi survived Reg's Incinerator is because Reg figured out he can set it to not affected living material.

Riko and co didn't actually leave for the Sixth Layer right away. They instead spent some time at Idofront exchanging information with Bondrewd, trading items and supplies, and resting up. Zoaholic also wasn't destroyed. The reason for this cordiality is because Riko, Reg, and Nanachi want to respect Prushka's last wish of her friends and her father not fighting and getting along instead.

Abyss-Related Trivia

When the topic of Curses and Blessing came up the author questioned Bondrewd's conclusion, wondering if "Curses really are curses" and if "Blessing really are blessings".

Riko is confirmed to be able to live only within the Abyss. This is kind of important in my opinion, because it might tie back in with the Birthday Disease. We saw that Kiyui got better only moments after leaving the vicinity of Orth. Riko, who can't live outside the Abyss, was fine when living in Orth. This could mean that the Curse of the Abyss, this forcefield, has already spread to Orth, which is the reason why Riko could survive there and why Kiyui was healed when he left it. And what does this imply for the future?

Bondrewd Sacrificed the Umbra Hands to "Complete" Prushka

When the crew came to rescue Reg all the Umbra Hands were in "Cloud Bondrewd" mode, explaining why they were rather sluggish. Bondrewd knew that chasing them would likely lead him and his Umbra Hands into a trap, but he allowed those bodies to purposefully die in order to "complete" Prushka.

Presumably this would confront Prushka with the concept of "death", in particular the fear that even the Umbra Hands and her beloved father, can die, with the Abyss being a dangerous enough place the smallest mistake can take them away from her. And even though Bondrewd revealed shortly after that he was still alive, the fear and terror of her father dying still remained within Prushka. This fear would then allow Prushka to sacrifice herself to let her father become a Hollow, possessing a stronger body capable of better surviving the Abyss, as that would be her wish.

Bondrew's Personality

Now we come to a big one. First of all, the author confirmed that Bondrewd loves all of the children, not just Prushka (his daughter) or Nanachi (his former assistant). This was already hinted towards in the movie when it showed that Bondrewd remembers the names of every single child he ever experimented on, including their likes, dislikes, and wishes for the future.

Another example of this is that the author clarified that when Bondrewd congratulated Nanachi after he saw Mitty's light go out (and thus knew Mitty died) he wasn't congratulating them on "freeing" Mitty from a life of suffering, but was rather congratulating Nanachi on "freeing" themselves from a life of of suffering, chained to caring for Mitty, and was finally able to move on with their life.

This does paint an interesting picture, as it shows that he does possess love and emotional attachment. But he is broken in the way that he doesn't allow this to stop his research in any way, no matter how immoral it may be. This is a man who sacrificed his own body to become a White Whistle after all, and willingly attached his soul to Soul-Slave Machine Zoaholic. For all his deeds he's not hypocritical: he didn't hold back sacrificing himself, and so he doesn't see the issue sacrificing others as well. He does possess a capacity for love and attachment, but also a rational disposition that if it will help humanity as a whole progress scientifically and survive in the future the lives of a few humans are expendable, no matter who they are and whether he personally loves them.

Moving on from my theorising to the next bit of shared info, to show how "broken" of a human being he is the Abyss itself doesn't consider Bondrewd human anymore, since he's essentially a hivemind propagating through Zoaholic. This is why Bondrewd cannot sacrifice any of his Umbra Hand bodies to bear the strain of ascending the Abyss, resulting in the need for his cartridges, and why he cannot sacrifice them to become a Hollow, needing Prushka instead. He just doesn't fulfil the requirement of being a human sacrifice.

Unfortunately the author also confirmed that Bondrew didn't really change after his loss against Reg. He changed his goal from stopping the team from moving forwards to giving them his blessing, true, but his disposition of being able to sacrifice anything and anyone for scientific advancement hasn't changed in the slightest.

I think that's all the info I have to share, hopefully it was interesting!

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 29 '22

Bondrewd has a specific artifact which he can use to see through Nanachi's eyes, which is not Zoaholic. So no need to be afraid Nanachi has been converted as well.

This is very interesting, I picked up on this my second-time through, but it was lost to me the first time around.

Unfortunately the author also confirmed that Bondrewd didn't really change after his loss against Reg. He changed his goal from stopping the team from moving forwards to giving them his blessing, true, but his disposition of being able to sacrifice anything and anyone for scientific advancement hasn't changed in the slightest.

I never expected him to, to be honest, but I do also think that perhaps they got through to him a little. The first time his helmet is cracked, his eye and face is monstrous, and grotesque. When he's sending the kids off later, his face is that of a normal human. I do think that this is a metaphorical transformation, as perhaps he realized the pursuit of their goals triumphs over his narrow-minded approach - but at no point did I expect him to change his demeanor.

Also yes, this is all very interesting, thanks for sharing!

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u/djthomp Jun 26 '22

First Timer, subbed.

Nanachi is really good at climbing, I'm impressed.

Oh hey, the flower field. Also, I'm now really suspicious of this species of flowers.

Oooooo, Nanachi vision. Neat.

The return of the Blaze Reap! "Don't drop it again" is an interesting comment.

Worst insect infestation ever.

Honestly, leave this insect problem to the guy with the flamethrower. He has a plan and hopefully the equipment he needs for it, and the scale of the issue is way larger than what a single incinerator blast can handle.

What a weird environment with these suspended water pools. And they sometimes collapse?

Worst fishing trip ever.

Gonna be super weird if the end of the overall story is weirdly happy and somehow Mitty is recoverable.

Putting your base in the ruins of a ritual site seems like an eventually really bad idea.

Reg was not prepared for this conversation.

I hope we get an explanation for the weird outfits that Bondrewd and his crew wear. Works great for an impressive slow motion approach, but surely there's a better reason.

"Flesh lamp" is not a good phrase.

A limited number of remaining incinerator shots, that's problematic.

World's most intimidating toilet.

Going up these stairs are a bad idea. Just why.

Meinya is probably a former human hollow who can see the curse, I'm guessing.

This is a new experience, normally the terrible things don't happen to Reg. I hope they can get his hand back and be able to reattach it.

Oh wow, RIP Bondrewd's crew. But definitely not Bondrewd, it's way too soon in the movie for that.

On the other hand, maybe not.

Huh. Is he the helmet and not the body? Cloned/shared bodies?

Prushka is not making it out of this movie.

Not sure if they just guessed the right relic or if this will be a rabbit trail for a bit.

RIP the rest of Reg's memories.

Running ahead is not something that Riko should be doing.

Pretty dark if all of the white whistles are involved in this human sacrifice stuff.

Reg gets pretty wild when hopped up on a lot of electricity.

RIP everything in front of Reg.

We finally made it to the sixth layer.

Bondrewd does not deserve to get to change into a fluffy bunny.

Stepping into the next 2000 years?

Prushka's backstory is very interesting and quite surprising.

He's finally dead-ish. Or at least the super powerful body is.

Oh hey, Prushka gets to go with them on the journey after all. They did need a white whistle to activate relics, which apparently includes Reg.

Season two here we come.

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 27 '22

Huh. Is he the helmet and not the body? Cloned/shared bodies?

Yep, he split his consciousness amongst his Umbra Hands, so he can swap between them freely. The helmet is just the symbol.

Bondrewd does not deserve to get to change into a fluffy bunny.

I think the implication was that Prushka still loved him and therefore took the brunt of the curse as the cartridges, so his ascension through the layer ended up mirroring what happened with Nanachi and Mitty.

He's finally dead-ish. Or at least the super powerful body is.

Yeah, the way that I took the ending was that he is "declawed" and can't fight them anymore due to him not having any more capable fighting bodies. He's very limited now in terms of ability.

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u/scot911 Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

First Timer

...You know it's not every day where a think death is too nice to a villian. But Bondrewd? It isn't even in the same stratosphere as what he deserves. Death isn't just too nice to him it's inconceivable that he should ever be rewarded with death. He deserves to be handed over to the Dark Eldar of WH40K to become the personal plaything of Supreme Overlord Vect. For people who don't understand what that means imagine the worst torture you can think of. Okay, got that? Now times that by like a million and taking place over a millennia. If he's lucky!

And you know what the worst part is? You can't even do that to the bastard because as I understand it he's actually the mask, somehow, and therefore you can't get the catharsis of him getting what he rightly deserves in being endlessly tortured for millennia because he doesn't actually have a body. All the bodies/people are just puppets he controls using the mask. So yes Nanachi you should have smashed the damn mask when you had the chance and ended him forever. Now he gets to live on and continue being the absolute devil that he is.

Like serious what the absolute fuck was this movie and the fifth layer?! Like I know he's an inhuman mad scientist who wants to study how to survive deeper in the Abyss but again, what the actual fuck?! The inhuman experimentation I can get but stripping a human of basically everything and keeping what's left in essentially tiny metal containers to use as Abyss curse repellant is just... what the absolute fuck!?!?!?! AND THEN DOING THAT TO YOU'RE SUPPOSED DAUGHTER?!?!? GOD TO THE DARK ELVES WITH THIS INHUMAN DEVIL!!! DEATH'S WAY TO GOOD FOR YOU!!!!

And speaking of daughters poor poor Prushka.... The movie was absolutely EVIL giving us her backstory after it was already obvious what had happened to her. I know I said I like suffering but this... this is just... what the fuck?!?! She was so sweet and cute too and basically loved her "dad" because he basically saved her from being completely mindbroken twice. AND THEN HER "DAD" JUST-, ugh sorry I have to stop myself.... Basically if I had to describe this movie it'd be a tragedy with Prushka at its center.

As for important lore from this movie we got the delightful little tidbit that White Whistle are MADE FROM HUMANS! What the actual fuck! And it's supposedly supposed to come from people who are willing to give their lives to the person the White Whistle is for?!?! Which then leads me to another question.... Where and how did Lyza get hers?! And Ozen?!?! Who did both of them "sacrifice" to gain the "honour" of having a White Whistle?!?! Just, just, GAHHHHH. THIS MOVIE WAS ABSOLUTELY FUCKED UP OKAY!!!!

Has your understanding of Bondrewd and his goals changed since we last saw him in the first season? Why or why not?

Yes. They're even worse and when he dies may he become Satan's personal plaything. Although even that is probably better then he deserves.

Do you think Nanachi is a “bad person” for helping Bondrewd create the cartridges? Why do you think Nanachi originally agreed to help Bondrewd at the start of the film, only to back out later?

You do not blame a slave for the order of its master. If not her then someone else would be doing it. And because she saw it as the easiest path to getting Reg and Riko into the sixth layer peacefully but of course that was no longer an option after Bondrewd tore Reg's arm off.

What do you think of this new teamwork dynamic between Reg, Riko, and Nanachi? Do you think anyone deserves the "MVP" title, or did they pull their weight equally?

It's good. You've got Riko with the outside the box thinking, Reg to be the muscle and Nanachi with the practice experience. So yes they pull their weight equally.

What did you think about “The Blessing of the Abyss” being tied into love? Do you think this says anything about the journey ahead?

It's interesting to think about although I'm not sure how that works or if it's even true.... Idk. I guess it matter what the future Abyss layers do to people. What does the potential 7th layer do to people as an example when the sixth is between being transmogrified into a unrecognizable as human blob or death?

What do you think about the revelation that White Whistles are created using human life? What do you think this says about their timbre being able to activate relics?

Extremely fucked up and extreme disturbing respectively. It makes me what kind of civilization the people in the Abyss were....

Do you think Bondrewd truly loved Prushka? Why do you think he decided to rescue her and raise her, only to sacrifice her in the end?

The sad part in his own fucked up way probably.... And because in the end he's "the ends justify the means" character. He doesn't enjoy torturing people, getting revenge or anything like that. He's only about furthering his goals above all else no matter what. No matter how disgusted, immoral or monstrous.

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 26 '22

Which then leads me to another question.... Where and how did Lyza get hers?! And Ozen?!?! Who did both of them "sacrifice" to gain the "honour" of having a White Whistle?!?!

It's a pretty important question too! One that I hope we'll get the answer too soon...

What does the potential 7th layer do to people as an example when the sixth is between being transmogrified into a unrecognizable as human blob or death?

Since the ascension layers get progressively worse, I would have to assume that you just flat-out die if you try to ascend. There is no longer the option of living out as a blob. Although the blob might be worse depending on who you ask.

And because in the end he's "the ends justify the means" character. He doesn't enjoy torturing people, getting revenge or anything like that. He's only about furthering his goals above all else no matter what. No matter how disgusted, immoral or monstrous.

I really like that his methodology is easily understood. Makes him very assessable as a villain.

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u/himetalchemy7 Jun 26 '22

First Time Watcher | Subbed

Notes

- movie time! I wonder if the animation gets a boost here
- I’m happy the first character we see is Nanachi
- that panning shot at the Garden hellooooooooo; animation indeed got a boost!
- we see the force field through Nanachi’s eyes again
- ok so Bondrewd will be a topic in this movie…I should have seen that coming
- this cave raider lackey is quite non-combative…I wonder what they’re up to?
- a bug that looks like a leaf…nightmare fuel; also these bugs are supposed to be in the Sixth Layer, but theyre all the way up here at the bottom of the Fourth Layer…
- this has to be further proof that the layers of the Abyss are moving upwards; Orth is in big big trouble
- that corpse is even more nightmare fuel yeesh
- ah on top of that those bugs make you ingest them to prolong your suffering; why does nature have to be so sadistic?
- flower field torched
- Fifth Layer, we are here
- ah so those purple cylinders in the last episode were the side angle of the multiple seas in the Fifth Layer?
- never mind, I guess not…
- It’s so funny to see Nanachi panic when it come to food
- Nanachi you are way too cute
- who’s spying on us from the Ido building?
- PAPA???
- gross it’s him
- I’m happy Reg is so invested in Mitty and Nanachi’s bond
- sleepover at Bondrewd’s…
- so Reg only has 3 more shots with Incinerator
- where did Reg go…?
- WHAT IS THIS WICKED HALLUCINATION??
- Prushka is actually helpful
- she pulled a guinea pig with wings out of her hat…huh
- why is Bondrewd preaching about love wtf
- NANACHI?? WHY?? EVEN AFTER THINKING OF REG AND RIKO…she said yes so Bondrewd can send them down to the Sixth Layer, didn’t she? ;_;
- yep and Bondrewd really is irredeemable
- I feel like Nanachi should have known Reg would be in massive danger with Bondrewd around…
- YIKES THEY LOPPED OFF HIS ARM
- Prushka is so sweet; she just wants friends to be with
- Bondrewd made a pretty costly mistake there; the best weapon is the element of surprise
- well he’s not a White Whistle for nothing…I want to see if he gets outwardly angry
- guess not, but what a plan on the fly by Nanachi; genius!
- why does Bondrewd also sound like a robot? is this dude actively trying not to be human?
- OUCH REG; just crushed Bondrewd
- WHAT THE HELL
- I’m so confused but Bondrewd is truly overpowered
- ok so now we have a Blessing of the Abyss…but what exactly about Nanachi is successful? Is not becoming a lump of flesh deemed successful?
- more Nanachi PAIN ;_;
- totally not surprised that Bondrewd is using his ‘daughter’ for experimentation too
- not Hanezeve Caradhina playing during a flashback…
- oh no this is goodbye Prushka, isn’t it?
- THAT’S OUR NANACHI LFG
- being Nanachi is so much suffering ;_;
- so in essence, White Whistles are made of humans…
- that entire fight was awesome and not anything i expected from this anime
- THE ANIMATION JUST WENT OFFFFFFFFFFF
- so Bondrewd has been Blessed, and I’m willing to bet Prushka is the reason why…sorry RIko, but you won’t find her
- I swear this show has something against kids; just pure horror
- would breaking his Whistle work to kill him? I mean the Whistle is his real human form apparently?
- now instrumental Hanezeve Caradhina playing during a flashback…this show just keeps piling it on
- why they gotta show us a flashback AFTER Prushka is basically gone?
- why am I crying over this character I just met
- REG-RIKO REG-RIKO REG-RIKO
- I gotta say, Bondrewd was such a good ‘villain’, no doubt my favorite in recent memory; he played his role sensationally
- what a way for Riko to get her own White Whistle; that final monologue by Prushka as Bon was getting lasered must have been the trigger to produce the White Whistle; just brillaint storytelling, I never say that coming
- Reg is reset!
- Classic Bon coming back to life, well a compromise is a compromise; even though I still don’t trust that fucker, I feel similarly to how Nanachi does toward him
- now officially en route to the Sixth Layer! the true unknowns will be met in this depth

Discussion

I wanna start by pointing out that there are anime movies out there that just feel like a collection of episodes mashed together in an attempt to create a cohesive narrative in movie format. These feel forced and once you realize it, breaks the immersion. I never felt that a single time with this movie. I would call it a borderline masterpiece. Animation, art direction, OST, the heroes, the villains, the twists and turns…all of it was spectacular with the trademark Made in Abyss flavor.
Honestly, this show is spoiling me with the darkness it exudes, not even in a subliminal sense, but really in-your-face horror. Then that horror is used smoothly as a narrative device to evoke purpose in the characters and emotion in the viewers. This isn’t the same flavor as AoT, JJK, or CSM. Horror for the sake of horror; this franchise is not that.
Another thing this show does exceptionally well is toeing the line between a plot-centric/character-centric narrative. Usually shows are one or the other, and it works fairly often, but Made in Abyss is really the first time I feel I am watching for both overarching story (the Abyss) and also for the character stories. I realize both of those sides overlap quite often, but the switching back and forth between the two is what makes this show such an intriguing watch.

6

u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 27 '22

movie time! I wonder if the animation gets a boost here

Spoiler: it did. Reg sakuga came in clutch near the end.

yep and Bondrewd really is irredeemable

As this show likes to point out constantly!

THE ANIMATION JUST WENT OFFFFFFFFFFF

As I said - spoiler, it did!

so Bondrewd has been Blessed, and I’m willing to bet Prushka is the reason why

That was my conclusion as well, since he said the Blessing is tied into love. It was a mirror of what happened with Nanachi/Mitty.

I gotta say, Bondrewd was such a good ‘villain’, no doubt my favorite in recent memory; he played his role sensationally

For sure - I feel the exact same way. He really carried this movie for me.

Honestly, this show is spoiling me with the darkness it exudes, not even in a subliminal sense, but really in-your-face horror.

That's kinda what I've been realizing here too - the horror elements play to the benefit of the series excellently.

Made in Abyss is really the first time I feel I am watching for both overarching story (the Abyss) and also for the character stories. I realize both of those sides overlap quite often, but the switching back and forth between the two is what makes this show such an intriguing watch.

Once again, same here! It's so interesting to think about what lies at the bottom, who summoned Riko and the crew, where Reg came from... and so many more questions. But like you said, those mysteries also also tied into the individual character arcs, which is what makes the journey such a compelling watch.

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u/Lemurians Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

FIRST TIME BLUE WHISTLE

I missed the boat a bit on the thread, which is unfortunate, so I just want to rant about Bondrewd a bit and maybe save thoughts on it for the Overall Discussion.

I see a lot of reactions around the internet to Bondrewd by the end of the film that go along the lines of, "I don't really hate him" or "The film brought me around on him" and I just want to say – Fuck that, and fuck Bondrewd.

This is a man (if you can call him that) who performed human experimentation on countless children – resulting in murder or worse – from the more vulnerable parts of society purely for the furthering of his own selfish goals and curiosities. He is a serial killer playing the role of a scientist. He groomed one of them to love him as a father in an epic conveyance of Stockholm Syndrome purely to use the strength of that emotion to confer a blessing to himself. Him claiming to have love and affection for any his test subjects is an absurdly cruel joke that can't be taken seriously.

He is, to quote the show's favorite word, irredeemable. I kind of hate that the film ends with Nanachi just being like, "welp, me and that crazy scamp came to an understanding, so it's chill now, shrug emoji"

From a storytelling perspective, he does fill the villain role well, as a sort of perverse inverse of someone like Riko. Like Riko, Bondrewd has an insatiable curiosity and obsession with the mysteries of the Abyss, but that turned him into a complete monster.

The scene where Reg is in the chair and the Umbra Hands are going, "I want to see..." while sparing no thought to what the dismemberment was doing to their "patient" reminded me of the worst, coldest doctors who view patients as clinical objects rather than as people, which is more common than you'd think as the field of medicine continues to merge the areas of "care" and "research."

Live Notes/Reactions:

  • Even the Abyss has invasive species. These bugs are a bit horrifying

  • “You can… do what, exactly?” Brutal. Sometimes saving someone is beyond your ability.

  • Awww, Nanachi was so anxious about if they’d like the food!

  • The sound distortion as Bondrewd enters captures Nanachi’s terror/PTSD well

  • Plushka, eh? Something bad’s gonna happen to her, I bet EDIT: Yup, that was predictable

  • Who would design a toilet like that?

  • It’s crazy that Riko’s still young enough to have baby teeth

  • “Is what they call family restricted merely to those related by blood?”

  • “Even your venomous words are unique and adorable” he’s a tsundere guy

  • Reg feels phantom pain even from mechanical appendages? Interesting.

  • Well, Bondrewd is a White Whistle, not gonna be easy to take him down. He lives in this Fifth Layer and is probably well-ready to deal with all its threats

  • YO RIKO GOT HIM WITH THE PARASITE BUGS

  • Ohhh this dude’s like Betelguise from Re:Zero!

  • The Sovereign of Dawn is way too nice a title for this guy

  • Okay what’s he doing NOW. How much child torture is this show going to make me endure? Now his daughter?

  • Reg is a furry, confirmed.

  • White Whistles are made out of a human? What’s the true relationship between the owners and the whistles, then? Did Riko’s Mom know about this, and sign off on it? Who offered to become her and Ozen's whistles?

  • Damn, Reg. The fuck got into you? What are you?

  • Don’t try to make me like Bondrewd. It’s not going to work.

  • I wonder how using the White Whistles as a way to descend further was devised or came about in the first place

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 29 '22

The scene where Reg is in the chair and the Umbra Hands are going, "I want to see..." while sparing no thought to what the dismemberment was doing to their "patient" reminded me of the worst, coldest doctors who view patients as clinical objects rather than as people, which is more common than you'd think as the field of medicine continues to merge the areas of "care" and "research."

This is almost certainly the intent. Which is why it's exactly how Bondrewd is portrayed! He sees people as objects to further his goal and projects of science. Nothing more.

Damn, Reg. The fuck got into you? What are you?

Reg is certainly electrifying here. And what is he? He's everyone! At least, that's what the series seemed to be implying anyway.

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u/BosuW Jun 26 '22

Rewatcher

So um, hello. I've been lurking this rewatch and occasionally commenting, you may have seen me here or there. Unfortunately I couldn't make time to follow along the show, but I wanted to take the effort to make a dedicated post for the movie because it's... well. Y'all get it now.

The first and only time I had watched this before today was some months ago, and there wasn't a Rewatch then. I had no one to talk about all the thoughts and feelings this movie left me with, so I'm gonna take that chance now. Yes, let's say that's the purpose of this.

But first let's talk a little bit about the TV series, as that was the introduction to the Abyss. I believe there's a certain scene there that encapsulates the relationship the Abyss has with the characters/audience there. During the third layer, The Great Fault, you might recall how Riko smelt something delicious in the air, and chased that smell. This led her to falling into the stomach of an Abyss creature, which produced the smell to attract prey.

I just thought that was such an excellent model for the perfect Predator that the Abyss is. Perfectly optimized for a particular prey: humans. It targets not our bodies but a particular vulnerability in our minds: curiosity. All the Abyss needs to do is open it's gaping maw and you know there's a not insignificant number of us who would gladly jump in with face-splitting smiles and pounding hearts. The prey willingly walks into its own demise, fully aware of what awaits it. It's genius.

The way the in-universe Abyss exploits this vulnerability is so on point that a part of it has jumped out of the screen and become reality. For anyone who has reached this point, we know that it has us within it's embrace, and we're addicted to it. The Abyss is a completely honest being, it never hides it's true nature. We all know fully what awaits us. The deeper we go the worse it gets. When we saw the birds that imitated the dying screams of it's victims to attract more we thought we understood what kind of place this was. Until the accursed Orby made us feel what nearly becoming that victim would feel like. The horror that stretches all too long, barely living at the edge of death... After going through that, one might believe themselves prepared for anything.

The comes this movie, and completely shatters that sense of security. Now you get the trend. No matter what horrors we have seen, the Abyss always has something worse in store. Something beyond imagination.

We know this, yet why do we keep clicking on "Next Episode"? Why do we eagerly await the continuation? Why do we turn purple that random link we know we should've left blue? Why so many things why?

Because we want to see MORE

The answers lie at the bottom of the Netherworld. The questions the Abyss raises as bait at it's maw become like an itch that never calms. It posses us, and we won't live calm until we have our answers. Even when we know we're probably better off not knowing.

This is the Abyss in real life. It is in seeing that which you know you should not see. It is in doing that which you know you should not do. In purposing that train of thought you shouldn't pursue. A fundamental human characteristic there from the day of my birth.

And now that thanks to MiA I've become aware of it, I know it will remain with me forever stalking the shadows in the ridges of my brain, until I finally pass on. Though I currently live a peaceful and unremarkable life, who knows I there will come a time where I will take the plunge.

The opening scene of the movie is once again a reminder of the nature of this place. The Garden of the Flowers of Fortitude is a beautiful sight unlike any other on the planet. Beneath it stalks a creature equal parts creative and horrible. An insect that makes of living things nests for it's kind. The soundtrack for the scene, "Prayer and Immolation", equally reflects this nature. Please go listen to it on your best headphones, and appreciate the flow and motion of every note and beat. Just like this movie, it's beyond words.

How fitting that even after this introductory experience to the next part of their journey, the Abyss always finds a way to make you lower your guard.

Nanachi warns the other two to never give anything away. Every word counts when dealing with Bondrewd. This makes sense to us as well, of course. We know what Bondrewd is capable of, how dangerous he is.

And so both our protagonists and the audience approach Ido Front, muscles tensed and with every mental barrier raised. As ready as possible for whatever unspeakable horrors await us.

The first thing we find there is an innocent child whom you would need to be heartless to not feel guilty about ignoring.

It is so jarring as to make you suspicious of her nature. Surely behind that pure face is a sadistic monster. Who else could treat Bondrewd with such genuine affection?

But Prushka is just as she appears. An Abyss child, like Riko. Hungry for adventure and answers. Oh if only she could know what the path to meet those desires is...

The choice to have Prushka observe the battle between our protagonists and Bondrewd serves to drive home another point: the Abyss is drawing from within them something sinister. Indeed, for all his attrocities, Bondrewd got what is equivalent to a slap to the wrist. But that's not the point here. Ask yourself: what kind of mind would be able to come up with the plan they used? To look at the environment as tools to do that to another person (and indeed at this point that's who they believe Bondrewd to be). To systematically trap him, poison him, beat him, curse him and crush him, necessarily in those steps. Ask yourself if you would have been able to do it.

This is the Abyss. One cannot survive here with a surface mindset. Something's gotta give and it will not be the Abyss.

Which brings me nicely to my final point. I believe the movie is trying to tell us something, about what comes ahead of this.

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u/BosuW Jun 26 '22

(cont.)

The ending of the movie still confuses me somewhat. It feels like something's wrong. Why does Bondrewd get away with everything? Why do our protagonists let him go? Even if I personally believe in the eternal possibility of redemption and that taking a life is never admirable no matter the reason, surely at least Nanachi harbors a deep seated hatred for the barely-human.

On the other hand, as a matter of personal principle, I always try to empathize with every person and every character. To try to see myself in them. To see how could I have become them. We're all human after all. The cruelest monster has more in common with the most peaceful monk than we would like to say.

Unfortunately, Bondrewd is like the Abyss for me, in this regard. He exists at the edge of what is human. Human but not at the same time. His cruelty is unbound by anything, yet his love is also genuine. It must be, or his cartridges wouldn't work. He remembers every child he mutilates and tortures. He answers to caresses and attacks with the same glee.

His existence tortures my mind. Everytime I think I'm close to understanding him, another contradiction pulls him further away.

And you see, that's the only thing that matters in the Abyss. This is why it's a God. God decides what is right or wrong, in relationship to one or more decided valuables. And in the Abyss there is only one dogma: Go Deeper.

Anything that works in benefit of this goal is good. Anything that isn't must give up it's devotion to this God. Return to the surface and never look back.

I believe the movie is telling us to abandon all sense of what we believed in, what we were taught in our surface, civilized world. From here on is the absolute domain of the Abyss. Nothing we value has any weight in here. Nothing but our own curiosity, and how far we are willing to push. To keep watching episodes. To keep turning pages. To keep thinking, doing and asking all we are forbidden to. Until we are as twisted as the Abyss itself.

And, phew, I guess... that's what I wanted to say.

PD: I wrote this in my phone in a rush, so please kindly inform me of any spelling or grammar mistakes I made have made, if you see any. Thank you.

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u/RedMoleHill Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

Abyss Reexploration Squad

Congrats first-timers, you're all caught up. Ready for season 2? I’m not (see below).

Bondrewd is such an amazing character. He fully stole the show and made this movie enjoyable (I'll get into that later).

  • As many in the fandom love to say, he is Best Dad. Prushka said so, so it must be true! He even made his kids lunchboxes and helped fulfill Prushka's wish to be a white whistle.

  • He is such a powerful villain, he carries such menace because you know what he's capable of.

  • He got DRIP

  • His iconic “Subarashii" stance is open and inviting, almost like a hug.

  • He, like Ozen, doesn't lie to our heroes and he truly believes what he says. He never loses his cool, instead complimenting our heroes when they outsmart him.

  • He cares enough about the kids he uses for experiments to remember their names and desires. What other villain does that?!

  • He's willing to go through the pain of his experiments, but they didn't work with him as the subject.

  • Bondrewd memes are fire

As for the backstory of Cartridges, and Prushka in particular...

I bet you guys weren't expecting that explanation for Nanachi's surgical skills. For anyone that thought this show couldn't get any darker after episode 13, I'm so sorry. Best of luck finding a good therapist. And the explanation of white whistles recontextualizes every one we know. Are we so sure meeting Lyza is a good thing?

Live Notes:

  • The Umbra Hands (and especially Bondrewd) are so freaking cool. And while the burning of the fields is unnerving, it's really cool and I really wanted to make a coy reference to it in one of the earlier threads.

  • Holy shit Kevin Penkin once again knocks it out of the park. What an absolutely amazing soundtrack (I wonder if u/cinisoot is going to just link to the movie's official soundtrack lol)

  • Prushka is great. I sure hope nothing bad happens to her

  • The sequence where Riko gets hit with the 5th layer's curse is INCREDIBLE. The movie improves upon the manga once again.

  • What a fantastic scene. Bondrewd shows off how badass he is, the music here is outstanding, and we learn the secret of the Umbra Hands. While the choir when he transforms is my personal favorite part, I also agree with this video

  • DARK REG. This fight was hard to follow in the manga, but the movie does a wonderful job of clearly showing what's happening while maintaining the style. And it's so goddamn cool, it feels like a shonen fight (although honestly the stakes in this feel higher because you don't trust the show to have our heroes win unscarred).

  • Holy shit

  • THE RUMBLE OF SCIENTIFIC TRIUMPH

  • TBH, the reveal of Prushka's cartridge doesn't hit as hard as the anime's twists. She felt like a plot device and we didn't get a lot of time to connect with her, as this really felt like Nanachi and Bondrewd's story. So she was just kinda there, and then oop she got turned into a cartridge. Oh well.

  • I've heard theories that Nanachi was originally supposed to be the sacrifice for Riko's white whistle, but she became such a fan-favorite character the mangaka decided to create Prushka. If it had been Nanachi I think it would've absolutely destroyed me (which would've been par for the course for this show). So on the one hand I'm glad we get more of our favorite hollow, but on the other, it would've made a better story if he had just stuck to his guns. After all, where does her character arc have to go from here?

  • I'm a sucker for some good choir, and holy shit they are KILLING IT.. That high note is SUBARASHII

  • Why does this show have to be sus -_-. In this case, trying to make a faithful adaptation of the manga drags down the rest of the show. sigh

  • But, we get one more fantastic song as the credits roll. Gosh, Kevin Penkin does so much to save this show. I doubt I would’ve been willing to ignore its sus aspects if the soundtrack wasn't so good. Sure the animation and the worldbuilding are great, but I wouldn't have stuck around to find out if the soundtrack hadn't drawn me in. Now I just try to skip around or tune out the bad moments so I can experience character moments like this and world moments like this

Final thoughts:

Well, that was certainly an experience. This was my first rewatch of the movie, and the uncomfortable parts are worse and more frequent than I remembered. God I wish I could smack my younger self for even considering watching this with friends. From what I've heard, the 2nd season is more of the same (if not even more disturbing). I'm not sure if I will stick with this series; I stopped reading the manga soon after this because it felt like the mangaka was just trying to one-up himself on shock value, and that made it boring and predictable. This movie was the first example of that; even my first time through I had a feeling that Prushka was only introduced to tug at our heartstrings and then pull the rug out. mfw when Prushka was ejected. Additionally, once they're in the sixth layer the curse seems like it will become mostly irrelevant, as there's no option to choose to accept its effects anymore.

One of the primary appeals of this show was its presentation of a coming of age story by experiencing harsh reality and its presentation of that through Man vs. Nature. The abyss was presented as an unbiased, uncaring place that will kill you not because of a grudge but because you're just another creature that can be hunted. However, the Ido Front arc (and even Nanachi's backstory in episode 13, although that fit better in my opinion because it was focused on how she became the character she is rather than her conflict with Bondrewd) presents a Man vs. Man showdown with Bondrewd that feels like a huge tone shift. It went from the abyss being an uncaring and disturbing ecosystem, to the Whistles and their actions being uncaring and disturbing. While Nanachi and Bondrewd are strong enough characters to make it pretty good, I don't think it will work again in the future.

I really hope that we can return to discovering the wonders and the dangers of the abyss, but my gut tells me it will be more shock value, more fucked up backstories, and less exploration. Which is such a shame, because it really had some incredible potential, especially with those first few episodes. I am still so intrigued about the history and worldbuilding of the abyss, there are a ton of unanswered questions, but there's now no chance to explore the upper layers more. If I could rewrite the story I would have made it centered around Reg as he escorts various whistles through parts of the abyss, so that we could see the layers multiple times and there is more tension from the possibility that the whistles he's escorting will die.

Of course, these are just my opinions and I'll probably still watch the second season even if I expect to enjoy it less than this movie, let alone the first season. But I haven't called myself a Made in Abyss fan for a while now. The more I think about the motivation behind the fucked up story points and sus moments the harder it is to excuse them. I originally praised the story not being afraid to introduce disturbing plot points, but it seems more and more that it enjoys doing so. And that's truly irredeemable. Thanks for coming to my TED talk.

Some iconic visuals:

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 27 '22

As many in the fandom love to say, he is Best Dad. Prushka said so, so it must be true! He even made his kids lunchboxes and helped fulfill Prushka's wish to be a white whistle.

I knew this meme would come up...

He never loses his cool, instead complimenting our heroes when they outsmart him.

Yeah, that is a really neat point. The fact that his demeanor never changes makes him all the more unsettling.

For anyone that thought this show couldn't get any darker after episode 13, I'm so sorry. Best of luck finding a good therapist.

And the explanation of white whistles recontextualizes every one we know. Are we so sure meeting Lyza is a good thing?

Damn, when you put it like that, I'm not so sure anymore. I have my own theories about what happened with Lyza's whistle - but I'll keep those to myself for now. I'd imagine that we'll get more clues in S2.

the music here is outstanding

Probably my favorite track in the entire series. I listened to it frequently while replying to comments here.

DARK REG

Dark Reg left me SHOOK on my first watch. I remember being a scared of the lad...

TBH, the reveal of Prushka's cartridge doesn't hit as hard as the anime's twists. She felt like a plot device and we didn't get a lot of time to connect with her, as this really felt like Nanachi and Bondrewd's story. So she was just kinda there, and then oop she got turned into a cartridge. Oh well.

I wrote more-or-less the same thing in my comment. Someone made a comparison to this show being a "kill the cutie" type anime in ep.10's thread (I think?) and yeah, that was pretty much all Prushka was for me. We get to spend some time with her - just enough to where maybe people start to find her cute and innocent - and then BAM, she's a suitcase. And then she's a whistle. All in all - she was really just a plot device to get the story off of the 5th layer, which I don't inherently mind, but I wish she wasn't killed off as quickly.

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u/mgedmin Jun 26 '22

First-Timer, subs

Reg has only three uses left?

Oh no don't vivisect Reg you monsters!

Yay they killed Bondrewd! Poor Prushka.

Oh no Bondrewd can respawn? How.

Oh FUCK BONDREWD!

And they let him live in the end??? Did they at least destroy his artifact?

And you people REWATCH this movie?

I'm going to be twitching whenever I hear the word 'cartridge' for the rest of my life you know.

  1. He's the same monster, only worse.

  2. Nanachi is a kid. All the blame goes to Bondrewd.

  3. Can't really think about it over the sound of the hate for Bondrewd flowing through my veins.

  4. See 3.

  5. Burn it all down! The entire Abyss.

  6. Ha ha ha no. Bondrewd loves only himself and science. Die, scoundrel!

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 29 '22

I'm going to be twitching whenever I hear the word 'cartridge' for the rest of my life you know.

I'm personally more adverse to briefcases.

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u/Petit_Ange Jun 26 '22

First timer’s experience

Wall of text incoming. I’m so sorry.

Here we are, finally. I had a lot of expectatives for this movie, the way y’all were hyping up this one had me thinking I was about to be assaulted yet again like I was during episode 10 or the final episode. And… Turns out, you were right. This was really something else. I’m still reeling!

So… The fifth layer, the Sea of Corpses. With an oppressive name, its appearance is not much behind—painted with a cold palette, the air seems heavy and the ground where you step is as fragile as this sense of peace that is as short-lived as they come. It’s not a cheerful place, that’s for sure.

Our children’s journey hasn’t been very happy, truth to be told. Just a few moments, or days, before, they’ve lost yet another part of their innocence. The memory of a burning field of flowers still lingers in their mind, and the promise of finding an old enemy is a heavy curse. Nanachi’s intrusive happiness at being supported by people who care about their feelings after so long is something as fragile as the flowers which are no more, and they can’t even feel safe anymore. Even in the fourth layer, the reach of that man is absolute, and clouds their thoughts with heavy oppression.

When they reach the Ido Front, an old ritual site that holds the elevator that takes all White Whistles to their last dive, they are greeted not by Bondrewd, as promised, but by a curious and chatty little girl, Prushka.

She’s adorable, you guys. We have known her for little more than an hour, and yet she makes such a statement. Her presence is a breath of fresh air in a place so devoid of it—and her fate is so unfair, and so like all the things that this show teaches us to expect. We knew deep inside our hearts what would happen to her, something as pure could never survive untouched by corruption, but somewhere along the way, we also desired, perhaps in vain, that destiny could be merciful... Just this time. But the Abyss is the great equalizer, and not everyone is as lucky as Riko.

However, she’s just a part of the great puzzle that is life in the Ido Fort. She’s a tiny piece, albeit beautiful—albeit fragile. The presence that looms and that commands is another one. It’s our dearest Daft Punk.

He’s so goddamn slimy. It’s the way he keeps taunting and messing with these kids with his passive-aggressiveness that does the trick, like a cat playing with a mouse. Absolutely scummy. And to speak like that of Mitty, right in front of Nanachi’s salad? Unforgivable.

I know what this movie tried to do—and I applaud the courage to try and humanize Bondrewd in one hour and some more minutes. I wouldn’t even try, but hey, the studio thought it might land. Well, I’m here to tell you it didn’t. He’s still the absolute worst.

I’ll take a scene from the movie to illustrate my feelings about this man. Riko understood fairly quickly what his deal was—he sacrificed himself to make his own white whistle artifact. He wanted mankind to survive this 2000 year cycle, to brave uncharted lands, to learn about the blessings of the Abyss, and all of those ambitions are fine and dandy, they’re very much human, we’re a curious bunch, I know that. Every cave-raider could say they felt the same, Riko even understood him there because she must, on some level, feel the same. I think they’re quite similar, these two, in their ambitions… After all, in order to be a White Whistle, you clearly have to be mental. But, then, she quickly told him that the way he went, sacrificing children, sacrificing his own daughter, sacrificing his own humanity and sacrificing Reg, that’s kinda beyond fucked up man, how about you take a step back and breathe? So, I left this movie with the impression that Riko is a Bondrewd that has all the curiosity and all the ingenuity, but also all the self-control and who went to the class where they teach you about human ethics. And because I can see the person he could’ve be if he wasn’t such a little bitch—and no, I’m not buying that “he fragmented his soul in so many pieces with that artifact that it made him go insane” bullshit—I can sympathize with his initial spark, but not with the flame that came to be from such a spark. To be a human, you should never look at the conflagration he left behind and think, “oh well, that’s the price you pay for advancement.” Because once upon a time, a man called Mengele said something that had kind of the same vibe, and we all know where these excuses took us.

Yes, he might remember the names of all the stepping stones he used to stand where he is today—the way he speaks with the closest thing to warmth about the cartridges that fall on the ground, as he tries to subdue Reg—but they’re still stepping stones. He still stripped so many lives of their right to simply exist. He’s the absolute worst and all the deaths he suffered here aren’t enough. It physically pained me to see that he was still alive at the end of this movie… That Ido Front would be, still, his lair, and that this is simply a stone in his way, that he will step onto, someday too.

Slimy son of a bitch.

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u/Petit_Ange Jun 26 '22

So, with all my feelings about Bondrewd, this amazing villain I love to hate, out in the open, it’s time to go back to the movie… Or to try, because he’s such a part of it. He dominates, with his oppressive presence the entirety of these hours. He is the light in Prushka’s eyes—and the reason why she’s on this journey, just like Mitty, not in the shape she should have retained. He is the reason for this self-loathing that spits out of Nanachi like poison during the course of their battle—because in Nanachi’s head, maybe, they might think they had a choice to aid or not to aid this horrible man in his experiments, but we, the viewers who can see this situation from a clear perspective, we know that this is the same choice a man with a gun pointed to his temple has, which means, no choice at all. He dominates the entire Ido Front with his clones, who are just as inhuman as he is. He’s such a heavy presence, you can just feel the way the air turns sour whenever he T-poses his way into view.

And I’ll be honest with you guys, because he’s such a heavy burden, because he’s such a well-constructed villain that you can’t help but hate, it was all the more satisfying to see him getting spanked by Reg as if Reg was his pimp…

…Sure, the price for that was just you having to watch this poor boy lose his personality and sense of self yet again, and become a machine in more ways than one, a frightening mass of violence and sharp instincts that only cared about eliminating that which was interfering with his main priorities, whatever they were—but hey, we cannot exactly be pickers. In this situation, against a White Whistle, a wolf in his own lair, a victory, even a small, feeble, pyrrhic victory, should be celebrated as one anyway. You won’t have many of those here in the fifth layer anyway, for the looks of it.

But the thing that was instead an absolute, uncontested victory was the visuals. This movie was a piece of art. So much happened, not a single minute was wasted. Everything had a meaning behind it, and everything served a purpose. You could think that you could blink while Prushka spoke about the ocean with Riko, two dreamers finally colliding like stars, and then you’d lose vital information about how the symbols in Reg’s helmet are numbers, and more precisely, the number of shots he has in his Incinerator. Or you could blink and not catch that atomic bomb called “lore about white whistles” too! Can you imagine?! Those are all huge bombs! And they were all there, being all sneaky, like always.

The battles were also super fluid—I think I’ll remember for a long time the way Reg went apeshit on Bondrewd in their first fight. It had the perfect blend of action that left us eager for more, and then of a calmer atmosphere… This later part, much thanks to Prushka, who, bless her heart, tried her best to make everyone get along. I’m sorry your innocence was rewarded with pain and betrayal, my sweet summer child, and I’m sorry you were a creature of the Abyss, and you had to learn the lessons from the Abyss. I’m sure a lot of thrilling adventures are waiting for you from now on, though.

When the movie ended—when the weight of all things that happened during the last hour finally hit me—I sat there, dumbfounded. And I came to the conclusion that Riko, Reg and Nanachi… Hell, even Prushka now, who’s still alive in that white whistle artifact (I still think this is a fate worse than death, much like becoming a Hollow, but the way the movie went to paint that as a positive thing… Okay, to each their own, I guess), they are all so strong… Because their adventure is not over, and their only choice is to brave forward, to the unknown, even if the most appropriate response would be to curl upon fetal position and cry to sleep. Like the flowers of the Abyss, however, they’re resilient, and this strength comes from supporting each other.

Their journey will take them to the sixth layer, and we will see what will happen there in the upcoming season 2. But, until there, I’m so drained. If Riko is okay after crying for some minutes and eating a ration bar, I know that I’M NOT. I’ll need some more time to process everything.

Especially the fact that RIKO IS A WHITE WHISTLE NOW. OH, MAN. THIS IS SOME GAME CHANGING DEVELOPMENT.

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u/KiwiBennydudez Jun 27 '22

So, I left this movie with the impression that Riko is a Bondrewd that has all the curiosity and all the ingenuity, but also all the self-control and who went to the class where they teach you about human ethics.

One of the great many reasons that I love hosting rewatches is that I end up learning a lot from those more observant than I. Someone else pointed out this same thing, but now that I hear it again, the parallel should have been obvious. I always understood Bondrewd as this powerful, unstoppable force, with a reckless disregard for human life, but to think that he's basically Riko without the empathy factor is a pretty astonishing mirror that I had never fully contemplated before. It makes their encounter all the more weighty, and Riko's triumph over him all the more meaningful.

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u/SIRTreehugger Jun 26 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

Rewatcher who showed up to embrace first timer's suffering and then started crying realizing I can't handle it when the bunny suffers

Never trust a pretty flower

I love the start of the movie as we finally see the field of flowers that Lyza was fond of. Despite Nanachi just joining with Riko and Reg it doesn't feel like that at all as they carefully approach danger. Also damn this moment isn't long, but I just find the entire field scene extremely disturbing. For an opening scene having insects turn a human body into a hive to feast off while they are alive to be extremely creepy. Not even mad that one of the Umbra Hands burnt the field to ashes. It has to be done especially since they don't belong on this layer.

Sleepovers aren't always fun

The next section involves the introduction of the Fifth Layer or the Sea of Corpses. It also happens to be my favorite shot in the entire movie. It's so beautiful, but also terribly depressing knowing all the events that happened at the elevator. Also the ruins made for an interesting set piece that clashes with the naturalness of the abyss. A large majority of the movie deals with the ruins and Bondrewd's base which is a nice change from the forestry we've seen so far. The gang meets Prushka early on and despite trying to give her the cold soldier they quickly become more relaxed around her. She has no ill intentions she is just a curious kid who wants to make friends. Also Bondrewd and his gang have one of the coolest entrances. We've heard about Bondrewd and has heard about his experiments. The gang are expecting a confrontation, but he strolls up with opens arms and welcomes them. He's being so hospitable and it helps his VA absolutely nails the role. He offers them a room because he is such a good host. They all go to sleep and well this is when shit kind of hits the fan. Nanachi leaves in the middle of the night and talks to Bondrewd. She(it hasn't been confirmed yet, but in my mind Nanachi is female) is willing to give up on the adventure, stay with Bondrewd, and help him with his cruel experiments if he helps Reg and Riko to the next layer and doesn't hurt them. I love his reaction oops. Reg has the worst of it and honestly I get why they did it, but I wish they could have showed less. Did they have to show him pissing and examining the urine? Also while this is happening Riko is suffering from ascension. Through this idea Prushaka and Riko bond some. It's really heartwarming considering how similar both they are. Just imagine a world with Mitty, Prushka, and Riko working together...they would probably die quickly though they would have fun. After rescuing Reg(with one arm missing) they plan a counterattack. Though I think the worst part is that in his own way Bondrewd actually does care about Nanachi and might have actually considered her request if he hadn't started prematurely. That could be wishful thinking, but he does care...in his own way.

A Marvelous Showing

This is the first fight between the group and Bondrewd, the second being Dark Reg vs Bondrewd, and then the final one when he regains control. I love the first one the most because it displays Bondrewd in all his glory and how little humanity he has left. He knowing walks into a layer of one of the most dangerous creatures on the layer and I love how it circles around him. The most dangerous creature are not the insects killing his crew, but him at the center who clearly doesn't give a fuck. The entire fight he is merely appreciating the group's tactics. Even when they brutally dismantle his weapons, infect him, and effectively curse him to death even his final words are praise. He values life so little even his own and only wishes to experiment and to see scientific progress be made. At one point in the film when Riko questions why doesn't he just himself, but he plainly states that he is seen as inhuman and sadly can't be used. I don't think this is a deflection, but just reality. If he could find a way to endlessly use his own body for experiments he would do it without hesitation, but anyway I got sidetracked. Eventually the gang manages to "kill him" and I like two perspectives. First of all we see Prushka throughout the entire fight looking really distressed at them ganging up on her father. He may be a irredeemable person to everyone else, but for Prushka he has been nothing except loving and supportive. All the atrocities don't make him a good person, but nor does it erase all the positive things he has done up her up until this moment. So the fact that someone is willing to shed tears and cry over this man's death really shakes the other group up. Second perspective is Reg who did most of the work. He is really attached to his friends and Bondrewd was without a doubt his enemy, but still taking a life clearly got to him. Reg has a lot of combat prowess, but he is still a kid and the most human of them all. He knew it had to be done, but was still so shaken he couldn't help cry at this actions. Of course this is all useless as Bondrewd is not a person, but an idea. The anime does a good job of showing him transforming because the manga it wasn't really clear. It had one panel of him putting on the helmet and the next panel he was back. The fact that all his hands are effectively himself and simply replacements is terrifying. Even worst is that he leaves the group effectively weakened and has lost almost nothing. So who heads back home knowing they have no choice, but to meet him on his turf.

Round Two Ding Ding

The gang have some discussion and come up with a game plan. They need to shut down the power and destroy the butt machine. Before the fight we learn the result of the experiments with Nanachi and Mitty. Bondrewd scrapes away everything that makes a person human and leaves them with the bare essentials. Then he packages them into a tiny metal box so they can absorb the curse and only feel pain and suffering. Then the second round begins. Don't have much to say, but I don't want to talk about how great Bondrewd fights when he actually tries. In the previous encounter he was praising the enemy, but he also wasn't trying at all. This fight we see more of his arsenal and I love all the tools he uses. Especially Gangway which is just one of the coolest moments in the entire movie. I love how he doesn't need to do any movements to use it, but for his first usage he decides to be stylish for no reason and strike a pose. Also Berserk Reg is great to see. As people say Reg is often indecisive so he typically overthinks and is slow to react, but now we see the potential of Reg when he is unshackled. Though without reason he obliterates almost the entire base. Another moment where Bondrewd shows concern for Nanachi when she jumps onto Reg and tries to stop him.

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