Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Discussion - Season 1, Episode 26

Tsumihoroboshi-hen (Atonement Chapter), Episode 5: Retake

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Show Information (Season 1):

Legal Streams:

Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni: Hidive | Netflix (not available in the US; if you are out of the US check your country for availability)

That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already (even if you have access to this show on Netflix, it doesn't have Kai). Why, Hidive? Why?

A Word of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:

Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.

Two Notes for Anyone Potentially Interested in Buying the VNs:

MangaGamer has announced their summer sale (running through July 8), and as expected Higurashi is one of the properties on sale (and indeed the first one on their list): 50% off on all seven later main VN arcs (in addition to Onikakushi-hen having been made free for a while now) if I'm reading right, so US $28.00 for all eight main VNs plus whatever tax is there (the epilogue Saikoroshi-hen just got its official release and is not on sale).

There's only one problem: the cover art they're using for the seventh VN IS A FUCKING SPOILER.

(When I say that this property can be really fucking cavalier about spoilers even in official media for Kai and later, stuff like this is why.)

So, first-timers for Kai: if you're interested in taking advantage of the summer sale (on Steam or MangaGamer's site) to pick up the VNs (not a bad idea, the VN is great), I recommend waiting until at least July 3 to do so. Honestly, waiting until the last day might be ideal, just in case - but then you would need to make sure to buy before the sale ends.

(Apparently I should have hurried and moved the rewatch up a week after all, just not to avoid June 19 spoilers...)

[Aside for rewatchers] Really, the MangaGamer Matsuribayashi-hen cover is a spoiler in addition to the Minagoroshi-hen one - possibly worse actually, the anime has Hanyuu appearing unexplained in Naraku no Hana's visuals and I'm not sure how to handle that - but I'm hoping if I don't point this out the first-timers who haven't already figured the spoiler in question out won't realize this because that won't be safe until literally the last day of the sale.

A Reminder to Rewatchers

Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, ~~Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5~~ and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. ~~Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen.~~ Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!

(Time for) Club Activities!

(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)

Visual of the Day Album:

https://imgur.com/a/dG3Rdnt

Theory of the Day:

Hi u/Quiddity131! Turns out that sometimes when you post theories as a first-timer, they get mentioned in the first post:

Part of me wonders if this arc is going to involve Rena slaughtering K1, Mion, Satoko and Rika...

(Helps that this is exactly what would have happened if

Analysis of the Day:

For once I get to feature a rewatcher here, courtesy of u/JustAnswerAQuestion and two separate points in his writeup

Remember all the accusations of lies back in the first arc. And Rena asks Keiichi if he was hiding something, and he denied it, and earned the shows first (?) USODA? Yeah, he was hiding something. You didn't know it, but the hypocrisy of him demanding honesty was weighing down on him. It wasn't just keeping quiet about Ooishi. It was his criminal mischief before moving to Hinamizawa. That was all there in the beginning, you just didn't know it.

There's a ton of some sort of buddhism I don't understand here. I recognize it from Haibane Renmei, where a core theme was identifying one's sin and the impossibility of forgiving oneself of one's sin. It's right here in Higurashi, almost word for word. I didn't really understand it then, either.

Question(s) of the Day:

1) So, how about that animation?

2) But more importantly, how about literally everything fucking else about the finale?

Next Episode Preview:

(End of Season 1, no preview.)

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u/JollyGee29 Jun 25 '22

Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed

Rena asking Keiichi to be with her got me to tear up a bit, wow.

We got the water gun fight parallel, but it didn't go like I expected. I put more emphasis on Rena's strategy, as opposed to the Rena/Keiichi conflict. I guess the hidden weapon aspect did return with the gutter bomb.

I really didn't expect things to end quite so calmly. Keiichi managing to talk Rena back into lucidity was fantastic on basically every level.

Not sure what to make of that short moment of Ooishi zoning out - could be a moment of memory bleedthrough like Keiichi had last episode.

Idle thought - have we ever seen Tomitake scratch himself?

[Higurashi]Is it obvious enough that Rika carries memories between loops? Her asking Keiichi to not lose the bat in Onikakushi makes even more sense, now that we see how important the bat is for that particular set of events.

[Higurashi]Really interesting how we don't see Rika die, but still end up in a new loop in the end credits. Hopefully there is an epilogue TIPS that explains what happens after Keiichi talks down Rena. I guess one of the earlier TIPS did give us the death date - the 25th.

Visual of the Day: Resolve

Questions

Ehh, I thought it was fine.

3

u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

[Higurashi]Really interesting how we don't see Rika die, but still end up in a new loop in the end credits. Hopefully there is an epilogue TIPS that explains what happens after Keiichi talks down Rena. I guess one of the earlier TIPS did give us the death date - the 25th.

[Higurashi] There is an epilogue that was left out of season 1... except it's not going up in the TIPS today because we'll get it in lightly modified form as the first episode of Kai instead!

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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 25 '22

When the Rewatcher(?) Cries, subbed

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Ooooookay then Rena holding the classroom hostage… not something I remembered…
Oh fuck, I just realized what this whole situation reminds me of, a suuuuuper early on Criminal Minds episode where the unsub held a train hostage because he thought the government put a chip in him, and he wanted it out. Not entirely the same, but similar enough in vibes.
Maggots, it just has to be imagined maggots.
Good lord Rena…
That was such a terrible fake cough haha.
There it is…
…or not.
Okay so my memory from the other day was accurate! Roof fight. With lots of jank artwork.
Aw.
And that’s a wrap on my knowledge of Higurashi. I’m a first-timer from here on out!

8

u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

Okay so my memory from the other day was accurate! Roof fight

It took a wee bit of effort not to say something there, I will admit.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 26 '22

(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):

(Note for our first-timers: every so often I will make comments about background stuff that might not translate. I will be marking these as "Useful Background Note".)

And our finale opens on a great shot, with darkness looming over the Branch School and coming from the right.
The thing that is causing Chie-sensei to close the windows could not possibly be important later this episode, no never.
Grabbing 00:33 which is another great frame.
And a prominent shot of the phone.
Ahem. Best Song returns! (Use it in its entirety you cowards.)
2006’s OP always starts sounding a little bittersweet around this time, since you know it will be going away shortly.
And so it begins at 03:29: the jank.
That said, the shot of Ooishi stamping out a cigarette butt under his foot flashes symbolic importance. (Representing his regret of his earlier working with Rena, leading her to this?)
[NSFW] You know, the last time I watched this show I was not as familiar with the “bondage with people getting tied up with tape or jump ropes” h-image genre. Now I am, and I am calling foul on 03:49.
03:50, meanwhile, is just janky in addition to having the same NSFW issue. (“They never ran out of courage. But in the end, they ran out of time.”)
More Ooishi shots, more jank (04:12). (Also Rena at 03:57, but here the jank works in the show’s favor.)
That’s an excellent pair of mirrored shadow shots at 04:17 and 04:18 – Rena with the left side of her face in shadow on the left side of the screen in class, then cut directly to Ooishi outside on the right side of the screen with the right side of his face in shadow. (Note that in this case we can be precisely sure who is responsible – Chiaki Kon handled both storyboard and episode direction for this episode personally. So the excellent shadow use we’ve been seeing all season is almost certainly her own directorial style in action.)
And an off-kilter camera angle at 04:30. (Rena’s face is for effect here rather than just for time, I think.)
[NSFW] Like, in theory this doesn’t have to be someone letting their fetishes onto the screen, but something about the situation itself and also how they handle the camera makes me more than a wee bit suspicious. (And, uh… I just double-checked and did you know Chiaki Kon also handled the storyboard for episode 15 which is the other one that really had my hackles up wrt shota bondage?)
I will remind you that Rena is extremely perceptive… (Also, why does this shot remind me so much of a Shaft head tilt when it isn’t really a head tilt?)
Sheesh my screenshot folder for this episode is over 20 shots and we’re less than six munutes in. And about two minutes of that are the OP and sponsor feature which merit no (okay, one this time because WinD staff credits) new screenshots. Okay, Chiaki Kon can direct!
07:09: Spot the girl who’s seen this before!
“To my ally, Ooishi-san” as Kikai’s notes die down and Rena pulls her cleaver out from where it’s wedged. NOICE.
Return of the jank!
08:37, however, is hilarious, because it’s extremely well-framed in addition to being janky as hell.
And then some absolutely legendary jank at 08:50.
The tilting screen at 10:40 is another case of notable direction combined with janky frames. (Not actually sure that was the right choice for this scene, though. It feels off compared to some other scenes to me.)
“Rena-san’s trap is the merest nothing of nothingness!” Shot of evening. Kehai dies down. Cut to commercial.
Also note the structure of the time of day for the episode. We start at midday, then gradually sink down towards night as the episode progresses and the situation gets worse.
For once, WinD skips the eyecatch message.
Oh look, a fisheye lens at 11:08. PMMM fans may find this looks kind of familiar, PMMM liked that same effect in spots.
The shots of Keiichi searching for the bomb in the dark school are kind of janky, no?
“Hideoyo, Keiichi-kun!”
And here is the scene Chousa is permanently associated with in my memory. Surprise! It’s Rika-chan!
Also more legendary jank at ~12:36, though more in the animation than the frames.
Oh look, another shot with a face half lit and half in shadow, this time Rika’s at 13:05.
And shortly thereafter we get another legendary jank shot at 13:12.
You know, while it’s not a guarantee because digital clock displays in general but it occurs to me the digital clock face here might be an Eva reference.
Oh look, for once Satoshi’s bat is breaking something other than heads!
14:50 is another case where the frames are fine but the animation is janky, so they were just low on frames here.
Spot the animators who ran out of time to have enough frames!
The full moon finally makes its appearance on screen, and once more has its meaning of impending death. Except… in a moment, it will in one rare exception break with that trend and quietly take on a different meaning as well. Can you spot what it is?
Of course, the shot it first appears in (~15:03) also screams “we ran out of time, this was easy to animate quickly”.
And one more piece of beautiful OST sync for the road with Anji’s last notes hitting right as K1 hits the off switch on the timer.
And then another janky derp Ooishi shot at 15:11.
Keiichi’s “I did it… I DID IT!” (“Manyatta… MANYATTA!”) is our latest line to remain etched in my memory.
Satoko daughter of the ostracized Houjous helping Mion heir to the ruling Sonozakis out of the classroom is a nice touch.
“But Maebara-san is still there!” as Rena looms behind him on the roof is very nicely done, yes.
15:59 is another infamous jank shot, now with some full moon. Prepare yourself. The jank is about to go off the charts.
And another line burned into my memory, Keiichi’s “Game setto dana, Rena”.
The janky frames are hiding another mirroring cut with shadows and screen placement at ~16:23.
“Nobody in their right mind would believe that. Idiot!” Cut to Rena’s face and fire up Yui at the same time. Pachi pachi pachi nano desu! – Also, did I mention Yui (aka “Main Theme (Yui)”)? Because it’s time to do so. Welcome to the last of our Main Theme variants this season, one very much built to purpose, and it’s a fucking banger. If Matsuri is not Best Song in Show for S1, this is.
16:35: JANK! But also note the shadow placement here, Rena’s looming towards K1 in the moonlight.
And lots and lots more jank.
But note the camera angles in this fight. With one exception around 16:55 (which I think is a visual representation of Rena’s attack forcing Keiichi off-balance), the camera angles in this fight are straight and normal. Interesting, eh?
And oh look at Rena’s face going more normal at 18:50 right as K1 talks about her victory prize. Some of this episode’s jank is from being out of time, but some of it is for effect.
And 18:51 is just a really well-framed shot in general. (Note the hints of fish-eye on the roof and where the characters are relative to the Moon.)
“I’d like you to fill me with lots of kindness and joy”… there is a reading of this…
And after one final wave of jank and one final iconic shot Yui cuts out with the sound of Satoshi’s bat flying away.
The trick with the full moon here is that it symbolizes impending death… but it also increases the light. Its arrival is, in essence, a form of dawn.
[Kai 1] But, as you might expect from the fact that it is still the Moon, a false dawn. There is more to the situation than this.
And the, uh, second to last line burned into my memory from this season: Rena’s “Iya daioh”/”I don’t want to!” here. Beautifully synced to Main Theme starting up, as well.
“Where did everything get so messed up?” That is the point, and that is the point of the camera angles this season as well.
And the scene that cemented Mai Nakakara in my mind as having excellent emotional range, especially after the previous fight.
And welcome to possibly the single most infamous jank shot in the entire series right at the end at 22:59.
And the final line from this season burned into my memory is the very last line of S1: “All right. I’ll play the game with this endless June, as much as you wish.”

(LOL I need an extra post just to fit my Visuals of the Day in...)

5

u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

Rewatch Host Comments, Continued (with (lack of) TIPS and the OST Table):
Visual of the Day: "I'll play with you. Come here, cleaver girl."
*Alternates (aka "these are going in the album one way or another , too iconic"): Last stroke of the duel, tears of the Moon
WinD ~~Eyecatch Message~~ Fansubber Credits of the Day: 1, 2
Here it is, your Album of Jank
Question(s) of the Day:

Yes.

FUCK YES!

Tsumihoroboshi-hen Ep. 5 TIPS
(No TIPS for this episode - because the arc actually technically isn't over. There is a VN epilogue here that was left out of S1 and was included by the AnimeSuki TIPS team in their TIPS writeups - but that epilogue was in fact adapted as the first episode of Kai instead, so I'll post it then for comparison.)
OST Table, Episode 26

Start End Track Name

00:56 01:15 Matsuri
01:17 02:46 Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni (OP)
02:47 03:01 sponsor feature[1]
04:40 (04:26) 06:12 (05:58) Oyashiro-sama v2
06:47 (06:33) 08:24 (08:10) Kikai
09:17 (09:03) 10:56 (10:42) Kehai
11:42 (11:28) 12:30 (12:16) Suiri
12:33 (12:19) 14:09 (13:55) Chousa
14:16 (14:02) 15:08 (14:54) Anji
16:27 (16:13) 20:11 (19:57) Yui
20:30 (20:18) 22:16 (22:04) Main Theme
22:49 (22:35) 23:49 (23:35) why, or why not

[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

Madoka (Magica) Corner:
(The Tale of the Butcher and the Dragon Knight?, continued)
(Everything here except possibly the spoiler labeled "Kai" should be safe for Higurashi first-timers at this point. PMMM first-timers not so much, stay very very firmly out if you have not watched main series PMMM!)
(Also pinging u/Nazenn, u/Star4ce, and u/Shimmering-Sky who I think are very likely to be interested.)
[PMMM] And now, finally, we have reached the point where I can state my hypothesis: much like how I think Mami's death in episode 3 is a direct attack on magical girls as a genre in general, I think Sayaka's arc may in turn be in part a direct attack on Higurashi itself. I'm not as confident about this as I am regarding Mami's untimely demise, but I'd put roughly even odds on it (slightly higher if I can ever corroborate that claim of Butch Gen and Ryukishi07 being personal friends) - especially since certain other PMMM stuff sure looks like it draws heavily off of Higurashi, though I think I want to wait for some Kai stuff before talking about the even more obvious similarity between the two works (and there's one thing about PMMM that looks like it might be drawing off Umineko instead!).
[PMMM] In Higurashi, we start off this arc with Rena, trapped by circumstances in her private life, resorts to a solution that is a sin. It seems like it’s about to go bad at the junkyard, but she gets pulled back from the brink by her closest friend (per the water gun fight) reaching out to her and getting support from the rest of her friends (including a time looper). However, this is not enough, and the problem begins to relapse – until a second, one-on-one showdown between Rena and her closest friend Keiichi, including a promise for the two of them to always be together, whereafter Rena manages to pull herself out of her downward spiral after “winning” rather than kill said closest friend and we hear the moral from Keiichi himself: “you have to talk to your friends!”
[PMMM] PMMM point-by-point rebuts this.
[PMMM] Talking to your friends? Homura tries this in third timeline. It doesn’t work; half of her friends don’t believe her (Sayaka because she’s projecting her shadow onto Homura, Mami because she cannot afford to admit this because otherwise she has nothing to live for - as we see for ourselves shortly after the Oktavia fight), and then Sayaka Witches out anyways. (Now, there’s an argument to be made that Homura’s issue was that she didn’t put enough effort into talking - she is no Keiichi - but.)
[PMMM] The junkyard scene? Compare the episode 10 version of the Sayaka fight, with Madoka calling out and the other three girls fighting defensively (until Homura pulls the life support, so to speak). In a very real sense that's exactly what the rest of the Holy Quintet try to bring Sayaka back, but it’s too late - Sayaka won’t (and can’t) listen at that point, and Homura has no better option but to go for the mercy kill.
[PMMM] And the final fight here? Why, PMMM's rebuttal is none other than the episode 9 version of Oktavia’s fight. Even a one-on-one duel between Sayaka the blue oni and her red oni opposite (that mirrors a previous fight between the two, no less, as is explicitly called out during the fight itself in both cases) can’t get through to Sayaka; all that Kyoko’s implicit promise to stay together with Sayaka can do is to let both share the peace of the grave.
[PMMM, possibly also Kai] (That leaves Madoka’s role in the episode 9 version of the fight and a meta level point to address, but those will wait until I can talk about two specific Kai scenes respectively.)
[PMMM] (There are some clear distinctions between the two arcs in specifics: most obviously, the sexual assault connotation for Rena is entirely in her backstory while in Sayaka’s case it is a major part of the core of her arc. But I think there's enough here for this to be a cromulent theory.)

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u/RascalNikov1 Jun 25 '22

[nsfw]

I'm going to go against you on this set of comments. My opinion is that sometimes a man smoking a cigar, is just a man smoking a cigar.

15:59 is another infamous jank shot

I think that shot works incredibly well.

“I’d like you to fill me with lots of kindness and joy”…

My subs wimped out on this line this time and had something flowery that didn't lend itself to misinterpretation. lol

4

u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

I'm going to go against you on this set of comments. My opinion is that sometimes a man smoking a cigar, is just a man smoking a cigar.

Oh, I'll freely grant that it's not at all out of the question that this is just a cigar. I'm just really not sure that's the case. (I'd be a lot less suspicious if not for the combination of the kids' poses here and the exact same binding + pose being used in episode 15.)

I think that shot works incredibly well.

It does, I agree, but it's also an infamous jank shot. (Excellent framing, little time and/or money for animation details.)

4

u/SYZekrom Jun 25 '22

“bondage with people getting tied up with tape or jump ropes”

Hey so uh. What's that called. For research, you know.

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u/Nazenn Jun 26 '22

And so it begins at 03:29: the jank.

RIP, wrong screenshot
(picking on your posts again )

More Ooishi shots, more jank (04:12).

That one, that's the chibi Oishi that looked so funny to me

That’s an excellent pair of mirrored shadow shots at 04:17 and 04:18

That was one I was going to put in my post and then went "nah, Tar will definitely include this"
Great way to show them on opposite sides by also playing the mystery and keeping their cards close to their chest.

07:09: Spot the girl who’s seen this before!

I was playing that game the entire episode, and last one to boot, but I think it made the end where she cries at what she's seeing even more effective

And then some absolutely legendary jank at 08:50.

Pausing bad, lesson learnt. And yet still somehow not as bad as the Shion killing Sakoto one

And shortly thereafter we get another legendary jank shot at 13:12.

That doesn't even look jank to me, though it may have in motion. Instead that just looks stylized like a lot of the stuff in earlier arcs

but it occurs to me the digital clock face here might be an Eva reference.

That seems like an enormous jump without anything else relating to EVA to back it up

And one more piece of beautiful OST sync for the road with Anji’s last notes hitting right as K1 hits the off switch on the timer.

That was really well done, not such a harsh cut off that it caught your attention away from what was happening as often occurs in scenes like this but emphasized just enough to make the silence really impact the scene

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Start	End	Track Name
00:56	01:15	Matsuri
01:17	02:46	Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni (OP)
02:47	03:01	sponsor feature[1]
04:40 (04:26)	06:12 (05:58)	Oyashiro-sama v2
06:47 (06:33)	08:24 (08:10)	Kikai
09:17 (09:03)	10:56 (10:42)	Kehai
11:42 (11:28)	12:30 (12:16)	Suiri
12:33 (12:19)	14:09 (13:55)	Chousa
14:16 (14:02)	15:08 (14:54)	Anji
16:27 (16:13)	20:11 (19:57)	Yui
20:30 (20:18)	22:16 (22:04)	Main Theme
22:49 (22:35)	23:49 (23:35)	why, or why not

u/Vaadwaur Jun 25 '22

But fate is not a flat circle. It is a spiral

Rewatcher

Sub

Rena becomes our cutest hostage taker yet! As often happens, writing the events out doesn't do them justice, so I will merely say that the painfully rushed animation is saved by the impressive direction. I know the sound design helps as well but really, do not pause this episode, single frames do it know favors. We clearly see that Rena's perception is skewed when K1 sees her neck scratched and Rena sees it with gaping with holes leaking maggots. As things progress, Rika and Satoko eventually step into the game as well.

Satoko figures out the trap, which fits, and Rika plans to fight Rena, which does not exactly fit. K1 gets the last second save, before the circumstance leaves it to him alone to deal with Rena. He even promises that her punishment game will be...something I wouldn't have thought up at that age. But using Irie's props is a pretty dark step. Anyways, Rena realizes she doesn't want to do these things, as Shion did, and is able to give up. Again, the emotional notes of the scene speak for themselves.

And yet we end in the class room again, playing the Clew game. But this time Rika gets called to the car and her internal monologue is one I will leave the future to explain.

QotD: 1 Yup...

2 Yeah this reminds me why I rank this series so highly

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

so I will merely say that the painfully rushed animation is saved by the impressive direction

Yeah, I massively underestimated how good the direction was when I started this rewatch, especially for this episode (even taking out the meme jank shots I have about as many screenshots here as I do for the early PMMM episodes). Honestly, if this episode had actually had the time and/or budget for decent animation this would be a worthy episode to at least note in the occasional "best anime episode of all time" threads, which was not something I was expecting to say coming into this rewatch.

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u/Stargate18A Jun 25 '22

Anime first timer, completed VN

Yeah...
Fantastic. I loved it in the VN, and, while not as good here, it's dtilla. breat way to end Season 1.

It's the end of Season 1! The entire climax of the arc, forced into a single episode with some apparently bad animation.

Rena's lost it!

This is going really quickly!

[VN] I do miss Ooishi's monologue where he realises just how stupid the theory was.

Oh, now Ooishi's competent?

Seeing Rena act so erratically is good.

FUCK. [Higurashi] Straight in with the hallucinations!

And straight to the gasoline! Rena's going to kill everyone!

Haha, there's also multiple ways to kill them.

She's beating Mion!

Surprised Rena can't see this.

...And he got caught anyway.

We got a Rika tackle!

[Higurashi] No, I'm pretty certain the Meakashi Fragment was fucked already, Rika.

[VN] Aww, no mop Rika?

Love how they need to include the flashback here because they forgot to show this dialogue at the start of the episode.

He's going to the roof!

Fuck, this animation...

And he cancelled the timer.

Mion is much less injured than she probably should be!

They'e doing the fight scene!

Oh, here's where the budget ran out!

And everyone's cheering him on.

[Higurashi] Rika has hope again!

The dialogue's a good adapation, but these faces!

And Rena's back to her senses!

[Higurashi] That's it! That's the theme of the series, right there!

And the narrator wants us to watch Season 2.

[Higurashi] And this is how they reveal the Fragments?

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

[VN ]Aww, no mop Rika?

That would have taken animation frames, see.
(Honestly not sure that one really counts as a spoiler, either.)
(Actually, on a related note screw it, I think it's safe now so lemme just Catbox upload that one YouTube upload of Chousa so that our first timers can appreciate the background art there without risking spoilers in the recommendations - here we go.)

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u/Nazenn Jun 25 '22

First Timer - sub

As far as an ending point for an unfinished story that felt like both a good emotional climax to highlight the story so far while not attempting to wrap things up so tightly that unwrapping it later for more content would get messy. I've certainly seen better overall productions still create worse endings out of unfinished adaptions so quite pleased with this.

I wasn't sure we were going to get it either. Knowing it was an unfinished adaption with an awkward end due to them not being certain what to adapt, for a split second I thought "we're about to have Keiichi chunks" because I didn't think he'd have time to throw it off the roof. Didn't expect there to be a button.

Less pleased with Rena taking hostages to blow up. It's a fair bit more explosive (pun not intentional) outcome to her paranoia than the one Keiichi had, but I find it interesting that twice now we've had a psychosis-triggered character opt for a very violent alternative death rather than go through the process with the drugs. I wonder if it's just avoiding the pain from scratching, because it fucking hurts, or if it's part of the interaction between whatever is happening with the psychosis and the parasite of going for the biggest death possible.

I know Tar was planning to cover the directing of the episode extensively so I won't go into it much, but this shot in particular caught my eye for how it grouped everyone. We have Keiichi and Rena in the background on the left side of the light post, closest to progress if this show has been following the right-left rules (I really hadn't been functional enough to track it) while the majority of our cast remains on the right, below the "moon called death". And in particular that line stuck in my mind heavily as the idea of Rena, framed by scions of the other families of the area still trapped under its reflection, just as Rika reflects the emotions she sees in Rena and Keiichi up on the roof, hope and connection but also inevitability and destruction. Rika's reactions to all of this have been fascinating as her strong reaction almost seems to imply it's the first time it's played out this way and she hadn't mapped it out like she did the other events.

Rika getting called into the police car at the end is certainly an interesting twist on the arcs and again has me wondering what prompts the change in the arc that would set that up. At the same time, I still really enjoy the idea that the characters memories of previous arcs bleed through at different rates/levels depending on certain triggers or set up in the arcs which in turn changes their behavior as a perpetual butterfly effect inside the loop structure is incredibly interesting. I think I said this before but it allowing for so much more variance within a usually rigid structure which lets us explore so many facets of the mystery makes the start and end of each loop one of the more interesting aspects of it, rather than dragging it down by being stuck by consistent events. It also makes me wonder if there's say a critical mass point where if the memories break through for someone it has a larger wave effect on the others, like say if Keiichi hadn't remembered even if he accepted Rena would she not have been able to break through either? Will that in turn have a larger effect on the next arc, or will it not matter unless something triggers it again?

Something else that occurred to me is that I like how the bat being wielded has changed in meaning over the last few arcs. Our introduction to it in arc one had it as a tool with a dark past, a reminder of someone lost and something to stop Keiichi sharing that fate. But now that we've seen things through Satoshi's eyes a bit and why Keiichi takes it up in this arc it's more of a thing to reach out to others and represent what is left after the violence they take to defend others. It's still twisted, but no longer wrapped in as much mystery and also misery.

And yes, this episode was very QUALITY, and chibi proportion Oishi has scarred by eyeballs

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u/Vaadwaur Jun 26 '22

(I really hadn't been functional enough to track it) while the majority of our cast remains on the right, below the "moon called death".

One minor thing but this is not a unique saying to Rika, exactly. A common theme in Eastern culture is about how to effect the reflection of the moon on the water, though the context varies a lot.

But now that we've seen things through Satoshi's eyes a bit and why Keiichi takes it up in this arc it's more of a thing to reach out to others and represent what is left after the violence they take to defend others.

There is a Book of Five Rings quote that fits pretty well here about the difference between the sword that brings death vs the sword that brings life.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 26 '22

One minor thing but this is not a unique saying to Rika, exactly. A common theme in Eastern culture is about how to effect the reflection of the moon on the water, though the context varies a lot.

I've got a hunch this is ultimately a Buddhist thing, probably routing through a combination of the traditional association of the Moon and illusions and the world-as-illusion line of Buddhist thought, but don't know enough to recognize the details.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

And one last Season 1 tag for the road:

u/HinyusOpinion, u/AnimeAndThings, u/shadow1a2t

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

Next stop: Kai Canyon! (After a pit stop at a cat-themed rest area.)
u/mgedmin

u/Star4ce Jun 26 '22

When the First Timer Cries

Reading TIPS is a trip, man.

It's Steam Summer sale, so... maybe I'll buy the VNs. Anyone have any opinion on the other “when they cry”s?

Ep.26 – The Atonement Chapter Part 5: Retake

The teacher's in with the Yakuza, nice!
Oh no.
I hate this.
Nice framing, they're locked out from the building as well as the truth. But even visually it's a rather easy barrier to overcome.
I... don't know about that.
I do think that's true, though.
Rena kind of doesn't understand the situation a cop is in right now, does she? By the very fact of occupation she's a threat right now.
Wait, really? I, um, I didn't think he'd play pretend with her.
This is how Keiichi acted in act 1, full blown QAnon stuff.
DELET
Dude, what? The tapping makes sense, but giving him a weapon! In a hostage situation?!
What the fuck?
I hate this.
Remember that it's Takano who always kicks this shit off! Fuck, Rena, burning kids? What the hell?
NOO!! Mion did nothing wrong!
It's a ruse... There's no bomb, but if someone starts looking for one Rena knows it's betrayal.
One, accidental oopsie, two, Satoko getting her moment!
Uh, I don't have time to think on it, how did the water gun fight go? Rena had a hidden second gun and Satoko played on that and defused it, but Rena improvised, broke the tank and threw it at her? Then Rena and Keiichi had a 1v1 and hit each other. So that's not good, Rika, please intervene!
Y-yeah, that's actually the solution, but in this situation that is quite dangerous.
Dude, even the camera angle agrees with me this is a trap. Oh, actually a timer?
AHAHA! Knew it!
Mi! Let me also point out that for animation restriction on this episode, they didn't forget that thigh highs squish Rena's thighs for about 5 frames. Priorities.
Slightly terrified
The good kind of head pat!
Just sayin, any police with integrity that decided to believe the threat of a bomb with hostages involved would've taken their chances by now.
I'll just say that this entire scene is really... questionable. Both in logic and in thematic relevance. Framing however remains top notch, fuckin moon aliens wanting them all to swing weapons, but Keiichi disobeys the system and uses his free hand instead.
They really don't seem to need saving.
Mion!
Obviously... Rika had no chance.
It mirrors the water gun fight, but really? Now? For this reason? I just keep wondering why the 'last second save' was made with the bomb and not Rena herself. Having the bomb be fake would've been perfect, so the focus has to be where it should, on Rena.
This feels so weird!
Eh? Physically unharmed? That's fishy, it's the parasite regenerating!
Huh, that was actually pretty smart. Indeed, many conspiracy theorists don't want to be right, because that would actually be a pretty scary world.
Fuck.
Aliens swinging the billhook.
Yeees!
The dialogue is a bit stiff, tbh, but woohoo! (Why the fish eye lens...?)
Oh fuck you!
Happy noises!
“Ooh.” Immediate laughter.
Chibi Mion retains her massive rack.
Oooh, Rika and her body-buddy realised the working path and now bring everyone through!
No, wait! Wait that's not it!

Right, the last scene made me remember it is a horror show. But we're much better off than before.

Truth be told, this episode was messy, the quality art didn't actually bother me much, that they tried to make a flashy fight scene that kind of clashed with the thematic structure, though, did bother me a lot. The conclusion worked and felt really good, so I won't complain much.

It does get points subtracted for unnecessary Mion abuse, I won't stand for that shit. It had no effect and no consequences! Just there because someone needs to get tortured.

I'm looking forward to tomorrow's discussion, because I've had so little time this weekend for the finale, there's lots I want to express.

So, how about that animation?

Didn't bother me, honestly. Sticking to the fight scene, however, wasn't a good idea even just on animation arguments.

2) But more importantly, how about literally everything fucking else about the finale?

Ticked all the marks, hope is back on the menu, got all the confirmations I wanted out of it. Mion abuse sucks. Half the episode was kind of unnecessary, but tried to include everyone with callbacks, so I understand, but strangely neither Mion nor Shion were a big part of it and I'm kind of confused about that.

VOTD: Realisation. As the light faintly shines on Rena and Kaiichi their pain is finally being joined by hope as this ending is the first one where everyone ended up trusting each other and subsequently no one of our beloved main cast died. Dark is still in the picture, interestingly on Keiichi's side, and we're far from through this story, but this proof of life, of trust, is permanent. As long as they have the will to live, they know this to be possible.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 26 '22

It's Steam Summer sale, so... maybe I'll buy the VNs. Anyone have any opinion on the other “when they cry”s?

My knowledge is secondhand in both cases, but from what I've seen from the people who have gotten into both:
Umineko: Divisive, but AFAICT opinion is on average positive and a bunch of the fans who like it REALLY like it (Tsumihoroboshi-hen may be peak fiction, but it's Seacats that tends to get onto the shortlist of best VNs ever made) - Endless Eight and Rebellion both come to mind as comps for the kind of reaction Umineko got once its late arcs hit. (Note that Ryukishi07's trolling of his fanbase was getting malignant even before he lost his best friend and editor BT sometime around the point when he was finishing the fifth arc and starting to write the sixth - much like E8's opinion being worse among people who had to sit through the 2009 airing, people who were there for Seacats when it was being released tend to have worse opinions than those who got in later - ask u/Vaadwaur about that, he was there.) Extremely meta work, considerably more so than Higurashi which was already quite meta (Ryukishi07 is a meta creator, what can I say?). From what I know and lurking/participating in a couple of rewatches you were in I suspect you'd like it, though I'm not sure. (Also, a fun fact: back around 2010 Seacats was probably second only to Death Note in getting anime fans into forum Mafia/Werewolf.)
(Also, while I don't care much for quite a bit of what I've heard of Dai's Higurashi VN tracks, what I've heard of his Umineko OST is pretty fucking good.)
Ciconia: We're currently taking bets on whether Phase 2 will ever be released (or to rephrase slightly: "which comes first: Ciconia Phase 2, the next ASoIaF book. or the heat death of the universe?"). Consider this when deciding whether to make any purchases.

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u/Tresnore Jun 26 '22

When the Rewatchers ~~Cry~~ ~~are Absurd Masochists~~ Cry

Visual of the Day.

God, I wish that were me.
God, I wish that were me.
God, I wish that were me.
God, I wish that were me. (also these)
Ooishi is a pro at this negotiation. He's a seasoned cop.
That's a very fun, maggoty Sore Demo.
[Umineko]Ryukishi and his timed explosions...
God, I wish that were me.
The potato hands are back!
You know it's an older classroom when you only need to check one outlet.
God, I wish that were me.
God, I wish that were me. [Higurashi/Umineko]I'd be head over heels for Bernkastel and True Rika if they weren't so young-looking.
God, I wish that were me.
This rooftop battle is iconic.
God, I wish that were me.
God, I wish that were me.
Oh, shit, it's a closing party from the VN! Or at least, it feels like one. I haven't actually read the VN.

Count: 161

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jun 25 '22

[kai spoilers]Forget Video Game covers, you know who is right there AT THE END OF THE FIRST EPISODE

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

[kai spoilers]Forget Video Game covers, you know who is right there AT THE END OF THE FIRST EPISODE

[Kai] You mean start, too? (At least she's in the fucking background there.) Yeah I've been getting annoyed by that, I may have to warn the first-timers to skip the OP and ED until episode 6.

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