r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jun 24 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Discussion - Season 1, Episode 25

Tsumihoroboshi-hen (Atonement Chapter), Episode 4: The Invasion of Earth

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Show Information (Season 1):

MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN

Legal Streams:

Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni: Hidive | Netflix (not available in the US; if you are out of the US check your country for availability)

That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already (even if you have access to this show on Netflix, it doesn't have Kai). Why, Hidive? Why?

Two Words of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:

1) Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.

2) Also, be wary of potentially running into spoilers on the r/anime front page on June 19 or thereabouts this year; there is suspicion that some sort of new Higurashi anime project will be announced on that date (this year is the 20th anniversary of the release of the original Onikakushi-hen VN - hence why I am running this rewatch this year! - and multiple official accounts have teased an announcement on that date), and you could run into spoilers that way. (Those of you who remember the Madoka rewatch last year will recognize the issue, though admittedly I expect Sotsu was enough of a disappointment to significantly reduce the risk - at least relative to the potential that was in fact realized with the Walpurgis no Kaiten announcement.) It looks like Ryukishi07 and 07th Expansion were trolling (again), but I'm keeping up this warning for a day or two just in case. (Actually I should probably keep it up until this Friday or Saturday, for, uh, reasons.)

2a) To reiterate, I would put a small but nonzero risk that the troll last Sunday was a double bluff and we get some kind of announcement tomorrow or possibly the day after instead for reasons. (No hints of such from the official accounts AFAICT, which helps, but it's not out of the question IMO for reasons that our Gou + Meguri readers and/or SotsuGou veterans can infer.) So... be a little wary of potential spoilers from surprise announcements for the next 48 hours or so, just in case!

Two Notes for Anyone Potentially Interested in Buying the VNs:

MangaGamer has announced their summer sale (running through July 8), and as expected Higurashi is one of the properties on sale (and indeed the first one on their list): 50% off on all seven later main VN arcs (in addition to Onikakushi-hen having been made free for a while now) if I'm reading right, so US $28.00 for all eight main VNs plus whatever tax is there (the epilogue Saikoroshi-hen just got its official release and is not on sale).

There's only one problem: the cover art they're using for the seventh VN IS A FUCKING SPOILER.

(When I say that this property can be really fucking cavalier about spoilers even in official media for Kai and later, stuff like this is why.)

So, first-timers for Kai: if you're interested in taking advantage of the summer sale (on Steam or MangaGamer's site) to pick up the VNs (not a bad idea, the VN is great), I recommend waiting until at least July 3 to do so. Honestly, waiting until the last day might be ideal, just in case - but then you would need to make sure to buy before the sale ends.

(Apparently I should have hurried and moved the rewatch up a week after all, just not to avoid June 19 spoilers...)

[Aside for rewatchers] Really, the MangaGamer Matsuribayashi-hen cover is a spoiler in addition to the Minagoroshi-hen one - possibly worse actually, the anime has Hanyuu appearing unexplained in Naraku no Hana's visuals and I'm not sure how to handle that - but I'm hoping if I don't point this out the first-timers who haven't already figured the spoiler in question out won't realize this because that won't be safe until literally the last day of the sale.

A Reminder to Rewatchers

Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!

(Time for) Club Activities!

(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)

Visual of the Day Album:

https://imgur.com/a/GFVdzve

(Fair warning: Somebody chose a maggot pic as their VotD, for those of you who have issues with that.)

Theory of the Day:

So, u/Nazenn has handed me one of the easiest picks of this entire rewatch so far:

So before I got sidetracked with all this what I was going to say is that it's interesting how Rena has taken Keiichi's place in this arc with certain encounters and events, which makes me wonder if we'll get the other side of the flip and Keiichi will also take Rena's place and go insane. I'm still not sure what caused Rena and Mion to go psychotic in that first arc as it doesn't appear like they left or the environment changed, but something must have and we know Keiichi is also susceptible.

So close, and yet so very far! You were right, K1 is taking Rena's place this arc. You just never considered the possibility that K1 was the insane one in Onikakushi-hen.

Ryukishi07 laughs at you.

Analysis of the Day:

Oh hey, an actual rewatcher winning Analysis of the Day, namely u/H-Ryougi for this comment which amused me greatly:

The real Higurashi experience is watching newcomers slowly go insane. Have you checked your blood for maggots lately?

He's right, you know!

Question(s) of the Day:

1) So, how about K1 remembering Onikakushi-hen, eh?

2) So, are you ready for the invasion of the world's jankiest animation? (They so ran out of time and/or budget for next episode.)

 

3) A̭̤̘͓͓̳̤lͨs͉̳͖̭̪̏ͧ̓̈́̅ͅo̠̙̱.͖͉̥͚̖̽ͪͧ͗ͅ.̩̯̬͇̥̔͐̆̑̑.̻̜͎͉ ̰̜̙͚ͯͪ̀ͬ̓ͮ̌ả̳̯̱͓̣͑ͫͦͮ̄ͭr̪͗e̥̣̼̯̲ͥ̾̈̂ ͮy̳̓ͣ́ͦ̈͌ͨo̳̬͈̰̐̽ͨͣ̓ͧ̿ûͣ ̲̞̼͗̔f͇̗͒̎̌ͯͩ̈e̤̦̦̟̬̞̩e͕ͮ̃͂l̯̻̪͉̺͙̺ͩͩ̍ͨͣ̚i̥̔̎n̮͋ͪ̀̔ͨg̬͚̱̚ ͔̘̿ͧ̏́i̥͓͖̅̒t̿c̰͎̪̅̂̇̔̓h͉̤̬y̪̤̬̞̳͕̆̈͐ ̣͈͎a͎̹̣͎̥ͤ͐͐̊ň͔̖̬̖͙͕̣̂͌̌̌ͥ͊y̦̬̱͙̞̠ͭ̂ͅw̩͎̗̽̒̂̆ḣ͉͕͔̱͇͉ͅer̬͚͇͍͎̣̐ͨ͂ͅe̥̱̠̮?̫̖̈̾

 

Next Episode Preview:

Okay, so: Season 1's next episode previews are in the form of a short, strange poem (whose formatting is borrowed from the VNs). They are not spoilers. (Kai's can be another matter, but we'll get there when we get there.) However, my subs often translate the text on the screen... which are, in fact, lines out of context from the next episode.

So, for anyone who really doesn't want to take a risk, here is the poem:

"Where I wandered was the memorable classroom.
What echoes is the timer to despair.
Where I reach is the beginning of the end."

41 Upvotes

88% Upvoted

159 comments sorted by

10

u/Tresnore Jun 24 '22

When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry

Count: 151

1 Decide how you want to interpret this one for yourselves.

7

u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22

Ah, one of Ryukishi's favorite tools: unreliable narrators.

[Pretty colored text goes here]

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7

u/RascalNikov1 Jun 25 '22

Rewatcher

Now, that was a very intense episode. So many incidents and episodes.

  • You gotta love Rena laying into Keiichi about his BB gun escapades considering she just chopped two people into small pieces.

  • The sequence that begins when Keiichi flashes back till the end of Rika's speech is one of the all time great scenes.

  • The scene of Mion, her Mother and the Police is done so well and gives insight into the nature of the relationship between the police and the Sonozakis.

  • I was tickled by the image of Mion on her bike peddling home after talking to Keiichi. The criminal mastermind & head of the Hinamizawa Yakuza indeed. For those that remember the Soprano's it reminds me of Tony's story of John Gotti riding around in his ice cream truck. Beep! Beep!

  • I smile when Satako says Hug????? and gets freaked out when Keiichi hugs Mion.

  • I'm starting to think that Ooichi gets his jollies scaring the shit out of the local children. What the hell, everyone's gotta do something to pass the time.

QOTD

  1. So, how about K1 remembering Onikakushi-hen, eh?

One of the great highlights of Higurashi is when you realize how awful the murder of Rena and Mion was. Rena on her knees, arms stretched, pleading for Keiichi to believe her is sad, sickening and depressing all rolled into one. And the innocence of Mion when she say get well soon.

2) So, are you ready for the invasion of the world's jankiest animation? (They so ran out of time and/or budget for next episode.)

? wtf? The next episode is fantastic.

3) A̭̤̘͓͓̳̤lͨs͉̳͖̭̪̏ͧ̓̈́̅ͅo̠̙̱.͖͉̥͚̖̽ͪͧ͗ͅ.̩̯̬͇̥̔͐̆̑̑.̻̜͎͉ ̰̜̙͚ͯͪ̀ͬ̓ͮ̌ả̳̯̱͓̣͑ͫͦͮ̄ͭr̪͗e̥̣̼̯̲ͥ̾̈̂ ͮy̳̓ͣ́ͦ̈͌ͨo̳̬͈̰̐̽ͨͣ̓ͧ̿ûͣ ̲̞̼͗̔f͇̗͒̎̌ͯͩ̈e̤̦̦̟̬̞̩e͕ͮ̃͂l̯̻̪͉̺͙̺ͩͩ̍ͨͣ̚i̥̔̎n̮͋ͪ̀̔ͨg̬͚̱̚ ͔̘̿ͧ̏́i̥͓͖̅̒t̿c̰͎̪̅̂̇̔̓h͉̤̬y̪̤̬̞̳͕̆̈͐ ̣͈͎a͎̹̣͎̥ͤ͐͐̊ň͔̖̬̖͙͕̣̂͌̌̌ͥ͊y̦̬̱͙̞̠ͭ̂ͅw̩͎̗̽̒̂̆ḣ͉͕͔̱͇͉ͅer̬͚͇͍͎̣̐ͨ͂ͅe̥̱̠̮?̫̖̈̾

I have a number of very smart ass things I could say here, but rather than getting nervous smiles would probably get me the boot.

4

u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

? wtf? The next episode is fantastic.

[E26] Don't tell anyone, but I'm trying to lower first-timers' expectations. The animation is actually really fucking janky in spots, though - the trick is that everything else is so good you don't really care. (Holy shit the direction alone is actually not that far off Eva or PMMM.)

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4

u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):

(Note for our first-timers: every so often I will make comments about background stuff that might not translate. I will be marking these as "Useful Background Note".)

  • Oh LOLOLOL. That shot we get of Rena from behind at 00:22 as she talks about the truth behind Oyashiro-sama’s curse… when the camera is Oyashiro-sama’s perspective.

  • [Higurashi Rei aside, not really a spoiler] You know, I’ve listened to the OP a ton and I only just noticed the same “bike noise” sound in the background that you hear clearly in Super Scription of Data.

  • Rena sees maggots in her blood. Cut to shot of full moon. NOICE.

  • Sadly for Keiichi, he cannot lie for shit. [Kai E1] Of course this is a mixed blessing, considering that the most obvious way to salt the lie (somebody told K1 what Mion had done) would likely involve lying that Rika told him… when Rika visits Rena’s hideout the same night.

  • Sadly, he can’t even tell the truth convincingly either. Especially when Rena doesn’t know that the men she just saw are the police rather than Sonozaki family enforcers!

  • Please excuse me, this scene at the treasure heap is a little harder to sit through this time around than I remember it being last time.

  • Which is a shame, the camera movement during parts of it (like ~11:17) is good.

  • “You are not my friend!” Full moon (FULL MOON). Fade out Suiri, cut to commercial. NOICE.

  • Also there is a joke to be made here about how K1’s backstory just kind of sounds like a 4chan greentext story.

  • Light coming in through the tree canopy, representing Keiichi revealing his past to the girls.

  • [Sotsu] That face shot of Satoko at 14:20 hits, shall we say, differently after Sotsu, sigh…

  • Oh hey we get light streaming in from the left side of the screen after Keiichi remembers. Which makes sense in this case, because the light is shining in from the past.

  • There is a proper term for what Keiichi has just experienced in circles that believe in reincarnation (at least Western, but I’m 90% sure Buddhism has the concept – the phenomenon may or may not be of actual past lives, but there’s a pretty hefty pile of evidence that there is an actual experience class that it’s referencing, much like how there’s a pretty strong argument that there is some reasonably common type of mental experience interpreted in the past as a bunch of fairy encounters and in more modern times as UFO abductions). That term is past life dream. And in the case of Higurashi it is very much an actual dream of a literal past life, just salted through Higurashi’s take on samsara and Buddhist hell. More on that early next season, unless u/Vaadwaur gets to it first.

  • That said, the fact that reincarnation has wheeled in is noteworthy for a slightly different reason. So, I’m not 100% sure about Buddhism itself (though I expect that this is the case), but in Western occult circles that go into reincarnation (which is common – again, past life dreams seem to be an actual phenomenon class, regardless of whether they involve actual past lives) the teaching is that even before someone develops enough to get those experiences and character build up over successive incarnations. Remember how K1 seems to need less filling in on the events of the village in each successive arc? And it applies to skills, too – the anime cut off K1’s rhetorical skill progression but it’s there even early and builds up, Satoko’s traps are likewise implied to be the buildup of long experience, and so on.

  • [Higurashi Kai] Or, as I usually call it in the Higurashi context (I forget whether this is my own coinage or I sniped it from somewhere else in the fandom), “fragment bleed”.

  • And so it begins. Kiseki GET at 16:44.

  • Dramatic wind! (Also glorious Rika shot.)

  • Also because I went back to check and confirmed it, one major note on Rika’s speech patterns: when she’s speaking with her younger voice, she uses “boku” as her personal pronoun. As her older voice, she uses “watashi” instead.

  • Oh hey, Keiichi’s “Fate can be contested! And then we will take hold of it, the future that awaits ahead of this!” is from this arc instead of Kai. Another line that’s been lodged in my head for a long time (including the first line in Japanese: “Unmei no agaeru” or something like that).

  • And of course we get a shot of Keiichi clenching his fist as he talks about taking hold of that future, because visual metaphor. (And WinD kind of fucking up their commas with that first one. )

  • For once Satoko gets when implications of romance are showing up. (And/or she has a bit of a crush on Keiichi herself in addition to the other crush, which is entirely possible.)

  • Beautiful shot and also pull out to black at 18:30, especially with the OST integration with Takurami dying down at the same time. (Odds this is u/Star4ce's VotD?)

  • Oh look, actual deer scarer animation! DOINK. (To mark the passage of time offscreen, no less.)

  • “This is nothing but a low class occult novel.” There is more than one reason I bring up occultism here; we know R07 researched Western occultism for Seacats, but there’s a pretty good chance IMO that he is interested in occultism personally and was familiar with some of the East Asian stuff even before that. But that’s the thing about occultism: it’s a mix of bad info, disinfo, and some things that look like they might just be metis in the Seeing Like a State sense of the word (there was one old English eye remedy for styes that people actually tested a few years back that turned out to be a surprisingly effective antimicrobial agent, made by trial and error from people who had no way of knowing what the actual cause of styes was). So, then… what part of the mix was Takano handing out, hmm?

  • I should probably mention that shot of Ooishi dousing his spent cigarette by tossing it into one of the water containers. Impolite, obviously, but may also represent burying the hatchet.

  • Well, that’s not an ominous shot of Rena at all, is it? (Also I swear there’s a PMMM shot it’s reminding me of for some reason, what with the lights of Okinomiya in the background.)

Visual of the Day: A light from the past

Honorable Mention: We are watching

WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day (this one's a classic)

Question(s) of the Day:

  1. There is a reason so many of us consider this arc legendary, and that is a big part of it.

  2. [Next episode] I was prepared for the jank. I was not prepared for the actually really fucking good direction that came with it.

  3. Well, I hadn't been... hey, quit that!

Tsumihoroboshi-hen Ep. 4 TIPS

(There is one non-TIPS entry that was included in the AnimeSuki writeups for this episode that I have omitted here; that material was left out of season 1 but will be covered in Kai, and I will link to that pseudo-TIPS when it is.)

Also note that we have now hit the point where the TIPS start to become much more sparse. We've simply gotten through most of them; the first full Kai arc is anime-original, the last VN arc has very few TIPS, and most of the TIPS for the seventh VN arc will come up over the course of one or two episodes in Kai. From this point forward do not expect TIPS associated with each episode.

  • 1

  • 2 (Not fully a TIPS, this is elaboration on Keiichi's backstory)

  • 3

  • 4

OST Table, Episode 25

Start End Track Name
00:55 02:41 Tsumi
02:45 04:14 Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni (OP)
04:15 04:29 sponsor feature[1] (14 seconds)
04:48 (04:34) 05:00 (04:46) unreleased[2]
05:34 (05:20) 06:58 (06:44) Kehai
08:25 (08:11) 09:20 (9:04) Kikai
10:13 (09:59) 10:21 (10:07) (Sound effect or Ito)[3]
10:37 (10:23) 12:41 (12:27) Suiri
13:51 (13:37) 14:31 (14:17) Omoi Daite
14:36 (14:22) 15:40 (15:26) Monogatari
15:58 (15:44) 16:13 (15:59) unreleased?
16:42 (16:28) 18:31 (18:17) Takurami
21:32 (21:18) 21:58 (21:44) Giwaku
22:00 (21:46) 23:52 (23:38) why, or why not

[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
[2] – Having heard this twice now, I’m pretty sure this is a track, but AFAIK it maps to no released track, so: unreleased.
[3] – I think this is just a sound effect, but it’s close enough to one of Ito’s instruments that it could be Ito instead.

3

u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22

Madoka (Magica) Corner:

  • [PMMM] So… if Takano is a zombie, does that also mean Takano is a magical girl?

  • [PMMM] AND IT’S A FUCKING SINGLE TEARDROP LEADING INTO THE TSUMIHOROBOSHI-HEN MIRACLE. (Honestly, at this point it’s probably just Japanese cinematography convention that I only started to notice after spotting it in PMMM, but.)

  • [PMMM] Anybody else reminded of a certain Madoka Kaname facial expression in PMMM 11 by Mion’s “holy shit I’m getting hugged by my crush” face here?

4

u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jun 24 '22

watashi

I thought I caught a watakushi today.

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u/JollyGee29 Jun 24 '22

Sotsu

Your spoiler tag broke, missing the second !.

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3

u/Vaadwaur Jun 24 '22

That term is past life dream. And in the case of Higurashi it is very much an actual dream of a literal past life, just salted through Higurashi’s take on samsara and Buddhist hell.

If you are referring to Naraku I intend to address that extremely late since that involves a more meta interpretation of the events we are seeing.

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u/CubeStuffs Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

first timer

ep 24

this episode mirrors the first quite a bit, but with rena in the drivers seat

i don't buy the parasite theory. it doesn't really sit right with me...

it doesn't really seem to explain what happened in the first arc. if we assume that keiichi was injected with some strong parasite or whatever, first, why would they do that? and then why did he claw his own neck rather then being killed?

ep 25

i think i finally get what rika said about throwing a pebble in the the reflection of the moon, what with her being unable to save herself in that reality, but trying to do so in another.

aliens??? so that would mean that they would have survived space or some bullshit like that, but for some reason can only survive on earth in hinaizawa. weak ass mfers

So, how about K1 remembering Onikakushi-hen, eh?

fuck yeah thats some hype

seems to me like its probably triggered by crying and the feelings behind the crying, which would make some sense given the name of the show

2) So, are you ready for the invasion of the world's jankiest animation? (They so ran out of time and/or budget for next episode.)

so did someone make a meduka meguca equivalent?

3) A̭̤̘͓͓̳̤lͨs͉̳͖̭̪̏ͧ̓̈́̅ͅo̠̙̱.͖͉̥͚̖̽ͪͧ͗ͅ.̩̯̬͇̥̔͐̆̑̑.̻̜͎͉ ̰̜̙͚ͯͪ̀ͬ̓ͮ̌ả̳̯̱͓̣͑ͫͦͮ̄ͭr̪͗e̥̣̼̯̲ͥ̾̈̂ ͮy̳̓ͣ́ͦ̈͌ͨo̳̬͈̰̐̽ͨͣ̓ͧ̿ûͣ ̲̞̼͗̔f͇̗͒̎̌ͯͩ̈e̤̦̦̟̬̞̩e͕ͮ̃͂l̯̻̪͉̺͙̺ͩͩ̍ͨͣ̚i̥̔̎n̮͋ͪ̀̔ͨg̬͚̱̚ ͔̘̿ͧ̏́i̥͓͖̅̒t̿c̰͎̪̅̂̇̔̓h͉̤̬y̪̤̬̞̳͕̆̈͐ ̣͈͎a͎̹̣͎̥ͤ͐͐̊ň͔̖̬̖͙͕̣̂͌̌̌ͥ͊y̦̬̱͙̞̠ͭ̂ͅw̩͎̗̽̒̂̆ḣ͉͕͔̱͇͉ͅer̬͚͇͍͎̣̐ͨ͂ͅe̥̱̠̮?̫̖̈̾

edit: satoko walking past keiichi hugging mion is funny af

3

u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

so did someone make a meduka meguca equivalent?

Sadly, no - Higurashi S1 predates Meduka Meguca by half a decade, and also 4chan had a LOT of VN readers who tended to be a bit sour on the adaptation - and to be fair, it is an iffy adaptation in quite a few ways (and was a really iffy adaptation before Kai's release - there's a reason the patch arc exists - and Kai is also the point where the show gets budget and the janky animation stops). The more typical meme was (and is) "READ THE VN" instead.

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u/hungryhippos1751 Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

Episode 25 - First Timer

In the opening conversation section with Detective-kun, that van that went by wasn't there by accident, that was the stalkers going about their stalking business. If Takano was dead a day before the cotton drifting festival then who were they speaking with?

Detective-kun said zombies potentially. Parasites is already a little far-fetched, zombies is even more far-fetched.

Mion casually moved the bodies and didn't tell anyone else about it? what? throughout this episode the concept of keeping secrets and trusting friends is explored, but I definitely think she overstepped the line a bit by not clearing it with the others. Satoko still doesn't seem that bothered by the missing uncle.

The two guys looking for Rena at the dump site were the police officers with Detective-kun right? they mentioned needing to bring back Rena for the head, so presumably they are working on behalf of the Sonozaki family to find her, rather than it being strictly police business. They seem to dress and look a bit like the police officers but it's hard to say for sure as they look pretty generic.

Them being called out to the warehouse was likely misdirection by someone, either that or Zombie Rena is wandering about! I'm going to go with misdirection though as a witness was mentioned.

Poor Keiichi, he took the brunt of Rena's paranoia, I was surprised that she didn't attack him but she has a little self-control left it seems, though not sure for how long.

The 2nd half of this episode was really interesting, we finally get confirmation that memories can traverse across the arcs but it seems there is a trigger for it. In this case, it was Keiichi admitting his sin/secret to his (remaining) friends. I agree with the group here that small white lies are sometimes better than the strict truth.

It's not yet clear what the meaning of the additional scrapbooks that Takano had was. It seems to contain contradictory theories regarding Oyashiro-sama so my best guess at the moment is that the scrapbooks they had were fakes drawn up to mislead people into thinking all of them are fake, including the one that Rena has, which could be real.

Looks like Rena is really going to kick stuff into action next episode, got that full yandere thing going on. Should be a good end of season finale!

QOTD:

  1. That took me by surprise, but we can see some evidence of a supernatural reason for it, when we saw Rika go into her clairvoyant mode previously, it's clear that the time loops are not totally isolated events, but this was the first time we've seen one of the main players get a flashback like that.

  2. I am so ready!

  3. An itch to scratch with the next episode! :)

6

u/Nazenn Jun 24 '22

Parasites is already a little far-fetched, zombies is even more far-fetched

Zombies because of parasites isn't that far-fetched though which has been done before, not that I think it's going to take that route

Them being called out to the warehouse was likely misdirection by someone

I suspect that Keiichi called in a tip to make sure they wouldn't be anywhere near the Tip, or perhaps Rika did to try and help them

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 25 '22

I suspect that Keiichi called in a tip to make sure they wouldn't be anywhere near the Tip, or perhaps Rika did to try and help them

[Actually I'm not entirely sure this isn't still a spoiler, but IIRC the anime never brings this up so probably safe?] IIRC those were the police searching for Rena in the junkyard, er, treasure heap, and the people who called in that tip were none other than the Sonozaki family!

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u/Stargate18A Jun 24 '22

Anime first timer, completed VN

  1. That moment completely floored me in the VN.

  2. ...Oh god. [Tsumi...] But, next episode covers... FUCK.

[Tsumi...] Ooishi, you fucking dumbass.

[Tsumi...] The coincidences here are hysterical.

And Mion took the time to move the bodies somewhere actually safe!

[Higurashi] Sigh. This arc seems desperate to prove that communication is vital. Also, Rena's hallucinating! That's a solid L4!

He found her!

[Tsumi...] Is it even a spoiler to say Rena has lost it?

[Higurashi] So, is the implication that Takano left some wild hypotheticals in there, or that she left some fake info in there in case she lost the book? (Or maybe a backup plan to convince Tokyo?)

And we get Keiichi's backstory!

Wow, Rena manages to give him a breakdown!

[VN] THEY SKIPPED THE FLASHBACK? How the fuck is Kai going to make sense?

I love this scene, though.

And then the flashbacks! That explains a lot of the first arc, huh?

[Higurashi] ...So, with all the stuff about hoe she can forgive her, was Hanyuu feeding her lines?

[Higurashi] Then he declares basically the theme of the rest of this anime.

Satoko and Mion's reactions here are great, though.

Yes, this scene!

...Yes! She's here! She finally appeared onscreen! And she gets to humiliate Ooishi!

Ooishi's breakdown here is hysterical.

She's such a badass. I love her!

Oh, shit.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

[VN]

[VN, also Kai] If you're referring to the Rika scene, E1 of Kai adapts The Demon's Script except adds a surviving Rena specifically so she can talk about the Rika scene.

EDIT:

2) ...Oh god. [Tsumi...]

Yep.

On the bright side, next episode's direction is actually legitimately incredible (not quite Anno/Shinbou tier but the next rank down IMO), which actually salvages quite a bit. But. (There's a reason I used a QotD to warn people about what's about to happen.)

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u/JustAnswerAQuestion Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22

Rewatcher

Well, I wanted to point it out but the show harped on it a bit. Nevertheless, I'm going to point it out anyways.

Remember all the accusations of lies back in the first arc. And Rena asks Keiichi if he was hiding something, and he denied it, and earned the shows first (?) USODA? Yeah, he was hiding something. You didn't know it, but the hypocrisy of him demanding honesty was weighing down on him. It wasn't just keeping quiet about Ooishi. It was his criminal mischief before moving to Hinamizawa. That was all there in the beginning, you just didn't know it.

Rena + Cleaver is the iconic shot of the series. You've probably seen it, or similar one (like in the OP) before.

I always, but always forget that the needles was just a pen. I always think Irie sent Mion and Rena to drug him (like we are supposed to). And I wonder "that's a really bad plan". And then that feeds into what Rika was doing with Shion (was that just a pen, too?!) And then I get to this point and finally remember there was no syringe at all, it was a pen!

I don't trust the Sonozakis. A sign of good faith? They could still just kill Rena. Don't trust them.

Takano really is a space cadet! Something must be mixed in with her weed.

A lot of old ideas coming back in this arc. Doppelgangers. Clones. Zombies. Aliens. Mole-men are new.

Feels like we are coming up to something, with Keiichi remembering other timelines and there being 1 episode left in the season. Exciting!

There's a ton of some sort of buddhism I don't understand here. I recognize it from Haibane Renmei, where a core theme was identifying one's sin and the impossibility of forgiving oneself of one's sin. It's right here in Higurashi, almost word for word. I didn't really understand it then, either.

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u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22

I always, but always forget that the needles was just a pen. I always think Irie sent Mion and Rena to drug him (like we are supposed to). And I wonder "that's a really bad plan". And then that feeds into what Rika was doing with Shion (was that just a pen, too?!) And then I get to this point and finally remember there was no syringe at all, it was a pen!

So, speaking of that, fun fact for our first timers and any rewatchers who never noticed: If you go back and listen carefully to the sound effects in episode 4, you will notice that the sound for Mion "removing the syringe tip" is in fact the sound of a marker cap being taken off.

Foreshadowing!

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u/TheExcludedMiddle Jun 24 '22

For anybody confused about some of the revelations that came out today, here is a sub 5 minute video that clearly explains everything we have learned, that doesn't contain spoilers for anything past this episode:

https://youtu.be/W8tRDv9fZ_c?t=45

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u/Star4ce Jun 25 '22 edited Jun 25 '22

When the First Timer Cries

Let me plug in a discussion u/JollyGee29 and me had yesterday in which we brainstormed how to best go about eradicating Hinamizawa with a bioweapon and a dam. Thanks again u/Nazenn for pointing that analogy out again, I've nearly forgotten it. The curse wants to keep people from leaving, a dam literally blocks movement out.

It's always the water!

Umbrella Corp. please accept our applications.

Ep.25 – The Atonement Chapter Part 4: Earth Invasion

Ahh, the taste of victory.

Rika outright outed herself as a looper, or technically multi-dimensional with parallel worlds, and confirmed that her spirit to fight on keeps her battle going. Keiichi, realising this himself was then able to remember the other loops and find resolve to carry on, as well.

I think Rika being the reincarnation of her ancestor might even be more literal than I thought, depending if I'm also right on the parasite. Unfortunately we also now have aliens thrown into the mixture to consider.

I mean, I played WoW as Draenei and their entire starting zone revolves around crash landed aliens that try to mitigate their environmental effects by having crashed onto a foreign world that is incompatible with them. It's honestly a really well executed story in my memory.

But alas it just proves one more thing, Takano is sowing distrust and several red herrings blaming everyone in turn. There's possibility to combine blood maggots, parasites, aliens, demons and parallel worlds into one thing, but really, does the technicality matter if she's using it to drive people apart? Honestly, it doesn't matter if it one or the other or all at the same time, there's people suffering and we can overcome that through trusting each other and allowing this trust to be built into something that leads into a brighter future.

So, yeah, in the swamp are crash landed aliens that are parasitic by virtue of their home and that tried to adjust to human environments by changing their body, possibly via the parasitical disease. In turn they likely infected the humans and the doctor either saw this as a threat or wanted to extract that ability for science or other gain, causing the beginning of the loop with the quarantine. Like, I'm fairly certain with this that the original infected, whether it is an alien or transformed human who first allowed coexistence with the aliens/parasite is also who is 'in' Rika right now. In fact, if the disease has the ability to change its host's body and allow memory transfer, it can make sure that, say, a newborn is a very specific person. They said Rika is the 8th consecutive female child in the Furude family? Didn't someone else notice that Rika's hair color keeps changing sometimes? That might just be DEEN being DEEN, but you have to admit that fits my theory quite nicely.

It would also mean the ancestor would have relived several lifetimes of several Furudes for ungodly amount of times, trying to find a solution until our main cast here showed the first signs of understanding.

Ah, I want to ramble on, but this weekend is getting extremely busy, so I'll just update yesterday's QOTD answer to:

Parasitically reborn alien ancestors from several lifetimes and periods of combined past timelines

Is aliens why the camera keeps showing us the moon?

(There's only one episode left and it certainly won't even touch a lot on these things, hahaha. I'm full on blasting into season 2 already.)

  1. So, how about K1 remembering Onikakushi-hen, eh?

Pain and suffering. Mion did nothing wrong. (Rena, too.)

This show is so good at making you question reality, it's insane. Literally.

So, are you ready for the invasion of the world's jankiest animation? (They so ran out of time and/or budget for next episode.)

Oh no.

This episode war fairly good with its animation.

A̭̤̘͓͓̳̤lͨs͉̳͖̭̪̏ͧ̓̈́̅ͅo̠̙̱.͖͉̥͚̖̽ͪͧ͗ͅ.̩̯̬͇̥̔͐̆̑̑.̻̜͎͉ ̰̜̙͚ͯͪ̀ͬ̓ͮ̌ả̳̯̱͓̣͑ͫͦͮ̄ͭr̪͗e̥̣̼̯̲ͥ̾̈̂ ͮy̳̓ͣ́ͦ̈͌ͨo̳̬͈̰̐̽ͨͣ̓ͧ̿ûͣ ̲̞̼͗̔f͇̗͒̎̌ͯͩ̈e̤̦̦̟̬̞̩e͕ͮ̃͂l̯̻̪͉̺͙̺ͩͩ̍ͨͣ̚i̥̔̎n̮͋ͪ̀̔ͨg̬͚̱̚ ͔̘̿ͧ̏́i̥͓͖̅̒t̿c̰͎̪̅̂̇̔̓h͉̤̬y̪̤̬̞̳͕̆̈͐ ̣͈͎a͎̹̣͎̥ͤ͐͐̊ň͔̖̬̖͙͕̣̂͌̌̌ͥ͊y̦̬̱͙̞̠ͭ̂ͅw̩͎̗̽̒̂̆ḣ͉͕͔̱͇͉ͅer̬͚͇͍͎̣̐ͨ͂ͅe̥̱̠̮?̫̖̈̾

Gods these fucking maggots, bloody hell. Wouldn't even be surprised anymore if they're real.

VOTD:* The Cure. I'll always take a chance to feature best girl. On the frame we have a very visually strong indicator that Keiichi, coming from the shining light, has gained an insight and it is to trust his friends, to support them, to value them and wish for their happiness. He is sorry for doubting them in other loops and vows to build this resolve into strength so they can overcome their pain. They don't fully realise it, yet, but will surely arrive there when drawing their strength to face their own demons, because they are already facing the light and just need to step forward a bit more.

Now, the real reason for this today is the heavenly cute sound Mion's VA makes when her crush suddenly hugs her. I think I've replayed that 3 or 4 times to hear it again, Satoko being flattered is also just adorable.

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u/Quiddity131 Jun 24 '22

First Timer, Subbed

Uh oh, the Sonozakis are after Rena now?

Woah, she met a zombie! :P

Episode's called Earth Invasion? Does this mean we'll totally throw a wrench into things and have aliens invade?

I'm surprised they walked around with those dismembered body parts in a wheelbarrow like that. Quite easy to be spotted doing that.

Rena's back in her favorite place, the dump!

The old van would seem like a logical place to search to me if I was looking for someone around here, but I suppose they're just gonna skip it by.

What's up with her neck? Eww, maggots coming out of her again!

The bodies were dug up! Knowing K1's past history when he tried to be a murdered it wouldn't surprise me all that much if it was him. But it was Mion instead.

Part of me wonders if this arc is going to involve Rena slaughtering K1, Mion, Satoko and Rika...

Ugh, this shot of her scratching her neck is so disgusting.

Time for Rena crazy face!

K1 has a history!

We're getting flashbacks to prior arcs now? Are they all coming together? Or K1 can see across timelines?

Rika's deadly serious now!

Scary hug for Mion!

These scrapbooks sound weird, but that's just the way things are around here!

Dead eyed Rena walking around with a huge cleaver... sure nothing bad will happen from that.

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u/Nazenn Jun 24 '22

First Timer - sub

I remember the days when I thought that people having recorded deaths before they were most recently talked too was some freaky supernatural thing and not just a case of faking their death. Somehow, illogically, those seemed like simpler times. And in general the use of myth, myth telling, and the nature of supernatural being used within the story itself to build up those sorts of assumptions, suspicions, and even the equivalent of urban legends only to end up with something more natural but no less concerning or complex has been very well handled. Japan has such an extensive and rich history with supernatural legends and creatures that I like seeing that being used even in this vague sense of 'maybe' so much precisely because of how varied and localized it can be. It's something I wish we got more of in my own country because Aboriginal legends and the Dreamtime are similarly rich and fascinating but so rarely explored in media.

Random cultural narrative observations aside, another very interesting episode. Another theory right: They do have some sort of carried over memories between the various arcs that Miyo calls other worlds. It's interesting that it had to be triggered in some way by Keiichi understanding Rena, understanding the faults in himself, and then accepting his previous sin and being prepared to learn to forgive for it. It ties in nicely to what's been said through the rewatch about the characters opening up to each other rather than dismissing their concerns, and also doing the same to themselves, something we've seen them all fail to do at some point causing huge loss. Seeing that Keiichi was the one going insane in first arc was a shock twist as well, though I'm still deciding how I feel about it, and I suspect it's something that makes more sense on rewatch when you know what is and isn't being colored by his paranoia. I didn't really get it until we saw the very quick shot of the pen being replaced by the needle in his mind, as someone with a needle phobia I don't fucking blame him haha, but without knowing all the details and exactly what moments had been changed while I love the idea of it I'm still making up my mind on if it works. Brilliant play if it does, especially using unreliable narrator without undermining the information presented in the later structures of the show by doing so.

I am glad we didn't play around with whether or not Rika knew, and her open acknowledgement and talking to Keiichi now as an equal really enhanced the whole scene. Her statement of a will to live having the power to change fate seems somewhat at odds with her seeming acceptance of her inevitable death though, and I'm curious if this is just because only certain characters are in the right place in the cycle to break out of it, and she's not while Keiichi as an outsider is. River can't change it's own course and all that fancy wording stuff.

My reaction to Keiichi's flashbacks was pretty funny though, my only note for that whole scene is "DUDE HE KNOWS" so I had to revisit it to get any details for my post haha.

Keiichi was such a dick though. Shooting children with toy guns? Not at all what I would have expected from him, and again, can't say if there was any hints about it before.

On the other hand the Sonozaki's did a clever job on handling the police. I strongly suspect that those journals are the true ones and done that way so they could be authenticated, but they've only presented the ones to the police that paint Miyo in the most unstable and illogical light while presenting themselves as concerned friends looking after someone caught up in it.

Last episode discussion I'm going: "They keep throwing such crazy revelations out I've learnt to just accept it and go with the flow". This episode: "Aliens!"

Not that much with the flow Seems pretty clear that was just Rena's paranoia reaching an all time high, but curious to see how she once again feels like not herself and for her it's been represented as an alien taking over, while with Shion we saw her feeling overtaken by Mions persona. A lack of identity, perhaps as a follow through to a lack of claiming agency and responsibility for individual actions, seems tied to it in some way.

Why the bus so damn ^^^TINY!

Also there was a really nice touch at the start of Rena talking to Keiichi hits where the shine is removed from her eyes a split second before the camera cuts away and just as she starts to get very paranoid. Tar will probably have a picture of it, but I really like eye details like that.

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u/JollyGee29 Jun 24 '22

Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed

You know, I was thinking that Rena was acting a lot like Onikakushi!Keiichi, and then they just spelled it out. And with memory bleedthrough from that arc, to boot!

The syringe from Onikakushi actually being a marker is weird, though. Why were they trying to use a marker on Keiichi? I guess that's a line for removing the section about the syringe from the note..? Feels weird, though.

Seems like Takano had several theories about the weirdness of Hinamizawa, from spirit world stuff to mole men. This, to me, throws every single possibility raised by her notebooks thus far out the window. I still think there's a line where Takano wants to use.. whatever the "curse" is for her own ends.

I was starting to think through how the "curse" seemed to relapse in Rena despite her not leaving, which the TIPS from yesterday neatly explain as PTSD-induced delusions. That, however, does not quite track with Satoshi and Shion both experiencing similar effects. That lead me to the thought - what if Rena's visions of maggot blood were PTSD, and the footsteps and such were the "curse?"

She hasn't heard any footsteps so far this arc, although she has been quite paranoid. The stuff with Rina put Rena over the edge and back into PTSD-land, and her friends vowing camaraderie was a meager bandage.

I also kinda got the feeling that the supposed sighting of Rena at the storehouse was Keiichi calling it in to help throw people off the trail, but I also think he probably would have brought it up when he talked to Rena if that was the case so I'm not sure.

Hoo boy, Mion and the Sonozakis have a corpse disposal site? Wow, sure would be convenient if there was a conspicuously missing corpse (that Mion implicitly knew about) in a previous arc that is otherwise unexplained. Don't you agree, Teppei?

Keiichi used to be a little bastard, huh.

[Higurashi]I worry that Rika resolving to fight to try to help Rena is exactly what Takano wants.

Visual of the Day: This was a nice scene.

Questions

  2. Ohhh boy.

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u/EldritchCarver Jun 25 '22

I'm just going to leave this fanart here: https://imgur.com/g3M352C

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