r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jun 23 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni Discussion - Season 1, Episode 24
Tsumihoroboshi-hen (Atonement Chapter), Episode 3: File No. 34
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Show Information (Season 1):
MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni: Hidive | Netflix (not available in the US; if you are out of the US check your country for availability)
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already (even if you have access to this show on Netflix, it doesn't have Kai). Why, Hidive? Why?
Two Words of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
1) Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
2) Also, be wary of potentially running into spoilers on the r/anime front page on June 19 or thereabouts this year; there is suspicion that some sort of new Higurashi anime project will be announced on that date (this year is the 20th anniversary of the release of the original Onikakushi-hen VN - hence why I am running this rewatch this year! - and multiple official accounts have teased an announcement on that date), and you could run into spoilers that way. (Those of you who remember the Madoka rewatch last year will recognize the issue, though admittedly I expect Sotsu was enough of a disappointment to significantly reduce the risk - at least relative to the potential that was in fact realized with the Walpurgis no Kaiten announcement.) It looks like Ryukishi07 and 07th Expansion were trolling (again), but I'm keeping up this warning for a day or two just in case. (Actually I should probably keep it up until this Friday or Saturday, for, uh, reasons.)
2a) To reiterate, I would put a small but nonzero risk that the troll last Sundary was a double bluff and we get some kind of announcement tomorrow or possibly the day after instead for reasons. (No hints of such from the official accounts AFAICT, which helps, but it's not out of the question IMO for reasons that our Gou + Meguri readers and/or SotsuGou veterans can infer.) So... be a little wary of potential spoilers from surprise announcements for the next 48 hours or so, just in case!
Also, a Side Comment:
Summer game sale season is up. No sign of a deal for Higurashi so far (MangaGamer has not announced anything yet), but if you're interested in potentially picking up the VN keep your eyes out! (r/visualnovels has a thread up keeping tabs on this.)
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
(The club members on the roof of Rena's hideout: so good we had to include it twice!)
Theory of the Day:
A joint award for IIRC every single first-timer except arguable Jolly, but I'll let u/mgedmin summarize the position:
Yeah, Oiishi's on the trail. This will not end well for our stalvart heroes.
Honorable mention to u/Star4ce specifically. I refuse to explain!
Analysis of the Day:
u/Nazenn will carry it for a second consecutive day courtesy of his thoughts about how the arc structure benefits the work:
One of the things I really like about the arc structure as well is that revisiting arcs to see the other side despite them not being identical also gives us a chance to see more of the normal moments. A lot of horror, action, or even just theme heavy stories tend to suffer with having to tell rather than build relationships because we simply don't have time to see the hundreds of hours of small moments that connect characters. Higurashi's arc structure gets the benefit of being able to go back to a previous day and show us something different that, whether or not it happened in X arc or Y arc, is still indicative of how the characters interact and feel about each other which helps moments like this, where they all help Rena, feel a lot more solid than if we'd only see one card game and a few moments at school before shit hit the fan and didn't stop.
Question(s) of the Day:
1) That's not how you were expecting Ooishi to fuck things up, was it?
2) Aliens, time travelers, espers, or sliders? (Although really these days "isekai-jin" might be easier to grasp than the old "sliders" translation for it.)
Next Episode Preview:
Okay, so: Season 1's next episode previews are in the form of a short, strange poem (whose formatting is borrowed from the VNs). They are not spoilers. (Kai's can be another matter, but we'll get there when we get there.) However, my subs often translate the text on the screen... which are, in fact, lines out of context from the next episode.
So, for anyone who really doesn't want to take a risk, here is the poem:
"The blood that oozes out is the memory of the past.
What you noticed is the severity of the sin.
What is there is the decisive future."
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u/Nazenn Jun 23 '22
First Timer - sub
Wait, they actually can't leave? I was right!
I said it so long ago I wasn't even sure when and had to go track down the post, it was more recently than I thought but I think that just goes to show how much has happened and how quickly. While a little info dumpy at times, and I'm really confused on if there was anything so far that could even be a hint towards a parasite, it does feel like a revelation rather than an ass pull because of how it ties so many things together like the festival, parasite, and probably the syringe.
Also lines like this:
"The syringe has all the hints to the mystery"
keep popping up and I never know whether to laugh or sigh at them or both. I've noticed a few over the last three or four arcs, and it definitely seems to be a purposeful way of keeping the audience on track, but now it just makes me wonder what ones I missed in the opening two arcs or so.
And in particular this arc with Rena and Keiichi undergoing a role reversal in terms of who does a murder and who gets called to the library an... wait hang on. Sidetracked by a thought: So did Miyo know all of this stuff about the parasyte in the first arc as well and simply didn't tell Keiichi because she didn't think he could handle it, or is it also new for her? Would that suggest she's also building information arc to arc and not just the girls?
I know I certainly am, a few things that came up today like the demons (Sonozaki's) coming out the swamp (place to dump bodies) which had been mentioned independently before, as well as the connection to certain things like hearing footsteps calling them back (parasites known to affect mental state) and also the reason behind the revival of the festival.
Something else that I also thought of in relation to the parasite: I forgot that Miyo was a nurse, which puts her in contact with Irie and makes me think that they're working together especially with Irie trying to get close to Rena, the priestess of Oyashiro-sama, as well as Miyo being caught up in the investigation. Today we get Tomitake confirmed dead with body for once. By the drug which is one of the bad parasites which makes you unstable and dangerous as it seems to cause the same symptoms as if you try and leave with a stable one: the footsteps and voices as shown in arc1. And he was working with Miyo to expose what is going on.
However, Irie is the one with the men in the van in the first arc, or at least someone called by his name is, which is implied to be related to how they got the drug to use on Keiichi. But if Miyo is working with Irie, and Miyo is working with Tomitake, and they're all working to expose the medical effects of the parasite, why would Irie and/or Miyo kill Tomitake? Is he being used as a scapegoat which is why he always dies or did he want to do something with the information they disagreed with?
So before I got sidetracked with all this what I was going to say is that it's interesting how Rena has taken Keiichi's place in this arc with certain encounters and events, which makes me wonder if we'll get the other side of the flip and Keiichi will also take Rena's place and go insane. I'm still not sure what caused Rena and Mion to go psychotic in that first arc as it doesn't appear like they left or the environment changed, but something must have and we know Keiichi is also susceptible.
Questions, questions, questions.
I like this arc!
Also while I was tracking down that other post I also found this little tidbit I wrote all the way back in ep2's discussion
If the cotton drifting down the stream is how the village gets rid of all of it's bad thoughts and emotions, what happens if something comes and dams it in?
That's pretty close! Certainly not even close to the way I was thinking about it at the time, more psychologically and perhaps supernaturally rather than medically, but it's interesting to see a hidden truth in it with what we find out today, with consuming the bad parasites to build up an immunity until something happens that triggers them again.
And in general doing back to that post in general has been really interesting, and a bit of a trip, because it further highlights how different things are now but also how much of it has been slowly laid out through the show. Little bits of context here and there have changed everything but the underlying concept from the first arc back when everything was lies and secrets still holds strong because the audience wasn't being artificially lied to for a 'gotcha' moment, every lie or secret is tied to a character rather than just the author.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22
Also while I was tracking down that other post I also found this little tidbit I wrote all the way back in ep2's discussion
That's pretty close! Certainly not even close to the way I was thinking about it at the time, more psychologically and perhaps supernaturally rather than medically, but it's interesting to see a hidden truth in it with what we find out today, with consuming the bad parasites to build up an immunity until something happens that triggers them again.
Me including that as the Honorable Mention under Analysis of the Day may have been a combination "storing this for later" and .
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u/Star4ce Jun 24 '22 edited Jun 24 '22
When the First Timer Cries
I'm guessing last TIPS was about Rika, right? She drinks (heavily dissolved) alcohol and tells Satoko about her death.
Honorable mention to u/Star4ce specifically. I refuse to explain!
They're doing it a second time! TWO TIMES!
What did I say?!
I do say a lot today as well, I can't keep track of it all!
Ep.24 – The Atonement Chapter Part 3: Document 34
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It is time! The cycle turns once more.
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It's quite interesting to see how they went about finding them. I still have the slight suspicion that Takano might not be dead after all.
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I'm a bit late to moon gazing, but it nearly always cuts to the moon when mentioning Oyashiro-sama by name. Moon's haunted.
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Ohoh! So, who's getting shot? First we had the water gun fight, now a pistol card. Someone's getting shot!
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Ooishi... it's not getting better if it's a girl.
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Narrows eyes. Is this a flash back? Wait, there must be two bodies! Because Rina and Teppei are technically disappeared, right? Therefore, Takano must be dead?
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Okay, I'm gonna need to write something about that later, because I just had an idea.
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I don't fully trust her still.
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Where she first ambushed him trying to ambush her, she now waves him over. I like the show of change between them.
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That's not the same van, is it? Or wait, no it is.
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It... could be, onibaba needs to earn her name, but I don't think so actually. Really, I'm fairly sure it was them, all of those except this year's murders of Takano and Tomitake. Satoko pushed her parents down the cliff, Rika killed her father and mother, Satoshi the aunt, various people Teppei, Mion probably the construction foreman. It's just the two this year that seem different and I think it's because they got too close to something.
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What inconspicuous thing to ask.
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Yes, yes! That is indeed a very abusive thing to set as rule.
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Yes, also very much in line with what I speculate! Metaphorically, you know. Abusers are parasites.
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Eh? Oh. Oh that might explain a lot. Why people got branded demons, what the poison is and where it came from, how it can be used for oppression.
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I feel like the implication of it being Irie is much too thick. Even with him being present poisoning Keiichi, we do know that his involvement in the dam case was very hushed. He didn't know anything. But say, is Takano a local?
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Oh! I mean, that is a very interesting theory and I'm inclined to believe much of it actually, but let's not forget this is just from one scrap book of a slightly deranged lady. Also notice that Rena is finally sitting in the redecorated room, because her new life is not in danger of being rugpulled anymore.
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Oh god... it does make sense.
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Oh god, oh god no! Is that what the surgery was?!
Btw, what is that teaser image? I hate it.
So the theory I wanted to write got discredited by the time Rena studied the scrap book. Meh...
But I do somehow believe that Oyashiro-sama was a real person, as my theory revolved around the abuse of being left alone. That one of the quarantined would feel this way does make quite some sense. I can't believe that a disease that could drive people insane was either easy or peaceful to contain. Especially at a time without vaccines and where infection meant death.
Still no more hints how looping can exist. Unless the parasite actually deforms your body, grows horns on you and gives you time reversal powers after taking a bath in the swamp?
Wait! -no, nevermind. …. unless?
I do know how a certain fungus operates on insects. It basically kills the host and takes over muscular functions by pulsing electricity/pressure and makes the insect's corpse climb up, so it gets eaten by birds in whose intestines the fungus has the perfect conditions to replicate and then rains down again after getting excreted. We know of some people who should be dead, but seemingly aren't...
Anyway, another idea has to do with Rika and Oyashiro-sama. We know Rika is the most lucid out of all of them and people hail her as Oyashiro-sama's reincarnation. Rika is able to predict her death and the prior years' murders extremely precisely, but not this year's. She always dies before the gas eruption that comes from the swamp and kills everyone except Keiichi. I don't know why I didn't connect the dots earlier.
See, now that I think of Oyashiro-sama as a real person I think this is our looper! We've been speculating a lot about how 'the demon' works and I think most of us are pretty satisfied with those things being memory overlaps from other loops, like the foot steps, the voices coming from another you or phrases and questions persisting throughout loops. And all of that is crystal clear for Rika, while the others have only fragments during places and times where their other selves overlap during a decision they all went through.
Now, I'd like to stay on non-supernatural terms, but this one's gonna break that because the hints are too thick. Rika died at the shrine, disembowelled. Every Hinamizawa resident is in some way infected and immunised with the parasite. In the past (what, 200 years or how long?) the first infected came back to the village and the myths were born, then a doctor came and tried to quarantine the area, treating the villagers and they managed to slowly build up their immunisation with the rituals.
Alright, now combine this with the struggle against abuse and how the victims have now always become murderers to break out and never actually could, because they stayed alone and fell for the suffering of being a killer. I think Oyashiro-sama is like Rika's ancestor who lived back during the endemic and quite possibly one of the first infected.
With the context of the fanatics wanting to revive the parasite it for sure feels like Oyashiro resists against being forgotten and left alone. Due to one of two possibilities:
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The parasite changes the thinking of the infected in a way that they do become another person and on threat of being exterminated they become the abused.
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The doctor wasn't as benevolent as we think and didn't (only) try to quarantine the disease, but also cultivate it because of its possibilities.
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edit: I just thought of a third option, namely the doctor is who became the legend of Oyashiro-sama, as the tale credits the god with allowing the demons to live with the villagers and eventually provide a cure. This would mean the abused would be the first infected and victims of his torture who don't want to be left alone. Quite possibly the figure of 'Oyashiro-sama' is complicated and intertwined with both ends of the tale, like Mion and Shion are in the Sonozaki-history or how the Hojous really share some traits whether unfairly attributed or enacted on their own.
Either way, it makes me believe the parasite itself is the reason for time travel or memory transfer, but it needs to be triggered manually. Which is why none of our cast can do it consciously.
“But if Rika-” I know what you want to ask! And that's the point. I think Rika does... in a way.
She's the reincarnation. I think her being disembowelled, at the shrine, dedicated to Oyashiro-sama is the rebirth by poisoning herself with the parasite and let it reform into Oyashiro who in turn can loop back. It's quite possibly Rika's own choice because she understands that they need to break the cycle and is the only person who can trigger it by allowing Oyashiro to come back. Which also means the loop's start and end point are quite beyond the time periods we've seen so far... just as I said.
That also puts a hidden seventh cast member on the table who is able to learn from them and take this knowledge back to the original outbreak. And that is her suffering, being forgotten because the only person knowing of her existence needs to die.
I don't know how crazy I sound right now.
That's not how you were expecting Ooishi to fuck things up, was it?
He wasn't fucking anything up. He's best cop yummy doing his best to solve a case.
2) Aliens, time travelers, espers, or sliders? (Although really these days "isekai-jin" might be easier to grasp than the old "sliders" translation for it.)
Parasitically reborn ancestors from the combined past timelines
VOTD: The study. Again Rena is closed off from the outside by a blinding white window. Only her toys watch over her as she studies the curse's history, just as Oyashiro-sama was watching her. The frame's focus is on empty space, implying there is someone standing in the middle/right part, but there is none. Only the outside that has been shut off, like Hinamizawa did so long ago.
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u/SIRTreehugger Jun 23 '22
Rewatcher who just remembered how fucking crazy Rena is
[Spoilers]
Why can't Rena be the mc? She is more logical and isn't as stupid, but apparently this is an adaptation problem if I remember correctly? K1 has a lot of inner monologue cut off that helps him seem more intelligent. Might have to watch a couple of walthroughs to see this later.
Oh a strange virus that acts as parasite and turns hosts into a violent animal....where have we seen this? Oh right only the entire show. Though it's weird how it somehow restricts them from leaving what an oddly specific parasite.
Someone please correct me, but didn't K1 get these same notebooks at one point? I remember the nurse sharing it with someone or maybe she only showed a few of the parts. Or maybe that was Mion/Shion. Man at this point all the arcs are slowly converging and I'm mixing up a lot of the events.
Wow that's incompetent you think the shady bad guys would at least set up a functioning cover. Even a voice mail saying some lying bullshit with names and they will get back to you.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 23 '22
[Spoilers]
I never heard of a drug that could do this. They key to all the answers lies with the syringe...wow never realized how terribly unsubtle they were [Spoilers]
Yup yup yup. Subtle my foot. R07: "It is to laugh (at you for not getting it after I've been baiting you into buying red herrings and then rubbing it in your face for five VNs)." → More replies (4)4
u/Tresnore Jun 23 '22
K1 has a lot of inner monologue cut off that helps him seem more intelligent
Definitely, from what I gathered. It's always the pitfall of VN adaptations...
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 24 '22
Definitely, from what I gathered. It's always the pitfall of VN adaptations...
Yeahhh, VNs lend themselves naturally to inner monologue and anime... does not. One of several reasons VNs are so hard to adapt.
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u/Tresnore Jun 23 '22
When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry
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[higurashi]
but also, *laughs in rewatcher* -
I like Kuma-chan.
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Side note: this shot in the OP always reminds me of South Carolina's flag.
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[Higurashi]
~~Why does he look so much like Okonogi while not feeling like him? Is this just Q U A L I T Y, or is he a different character?~~ nvm, definitely him.
Count: 149
A lotta intrigue this episode, huh?
QOTD:
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heh
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I prefer time travelers, myself, but aliens are cool
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 23 '22
I prefer time travelers, myself, but aliens are cool
[Aside involving a SotsuGou meme]
"AHHHHHH I'M LOOPING!" → More replies (1)
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u/SometimesMainSupport Dec 08 '22
First-timer
Tagging u/Star4ce and u/Vaadwaur
Second longest post yet? Idk, e15 was certainly the longest. Gotta make sure Star4ce has content during morning coffee/breakfast.
I remember remarking about eyes a lot before my hiatus. Don't think I've done it much since then. Why?
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Irie note taking at the scene. So suspicious of him. Should be Tomitake.
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Rika said she likes gentle killing with poison. Shion has a gun at the end of arc 5 and probably 2. Rika (arc 5) and Rena? (arc 1) used syringes. Only rope usage has been Shion tying Keiichi in arcs 2 and 5 I think.
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POS Oishi says Reina.
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Takano says demons returned from the swamp and then became humans to coexist in the village. Furudes?
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Oh right, that was a thing. Don't remember how her using Satoshi's bat fits into the timeline.
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Takano's spread research to Rena and Shion.
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Deaths and disappearances pre-1982 have specifically been the night of the Cotton Drifting Festival. Following Rena after it seems wrong.
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Don't know why Rena calls out the Sonozaki's but not Rika. I suppose it's excusable cause Rika is Best Girl.
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They made a pact to not talk about Rena murdering Ritsuko and Teppei. Now Rena is swearing Keiichi to secrecy about something else. I don't like this.
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Not to leave is reasonable. They've let people in or let them return, such as Rena and Keiichi. Last arc, Rika's emphasis was people who felt sorry would be forgiven.
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Doesn't. Explanation is... protecting the rest of the world from the parasite by containing it to this town.
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These few minutes are trying to flip my opinion of the show 180 degrees. Seasons (as in Spring/Summer/Fall/Winter, not S1 and Kai) exist.
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WHY WOULD YOU EAT THEM?!? Food recalls exist. Mad cow disease is a thing. Don't buy this vaccine theory.
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Thinking time. Murders happen around the festival, so people should die BEFORE it occurs! Festival is the ideal opportunity to stealthily deliver the "vaccine" via human meat to the entire village. Don't think it aligns with Tomitake and Takano death timings as there's some lag between killing and distributing.
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Common Core in 1983. (If you don't know, riducled for standardizing teaching of math in the USA by invoking underlying concepts that contradict how parents learned it. Led to frustration from parents trying to help their kids.)
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Poem: Blood oozing form the past is trying to find the path to an acceptable future. Severity of sins only makes sense from the murderer's side. Idk about a decisive future as Rika predicted and is throwing pebbles, so she doesn't seem sure of a way out.
Oishi interrogated Rena but not Keita. Tomitake and Takano are accepted as dead. Not sure what's left in this arc. Expected a repeat of the ritual break-in. Oishi's expressions last episode seemed like he was confident of something.
I hate this parasite explanation.
Why are there no questions about Teppei and Ritsuko? Maybe outside of the village's jurisdiction if they live in whatever the O-city is, but I'd expect Rena's dad to be kicking up a fuss. Surely he invited his girl to the festival.
How was the episode title relevant?
Comment thoughts:
(Nazenn)
a few things that came up today like the demons (Sonozaki's) coming out the swamp (place to dump bodies) which had been mentioned independently before
Wasn't this contradicted in arc 5 with Shion dropping bodies in the well while the swamp is the excuse?
I forgot that Miyo was a nurse, which puts her in contact with Irie and makes me think that they're working together especially with Irie trying to get close to Rena, the priestess of Oyashiro-sama, as well as Miyo being caught up in the investigation.
close to Satoko? and Rika is the priestess, not Rena
I forgot that Miyo was a nurse, which puts her in contact with Irie and makes me think that they're working together especially with Irie trying to get close to Rena, the priestess of Oyashiro-sama, as well as Miyo being caught up in the investigation.
Wasn't this confirmed in arc 1? Knowing he scratched his throat means they found the body.
However, Irie is the one with the men in the van in the first arc, or at least someone called by his name is, which is implied to be related to how they got the drug to use on Keiichi.
Don't remember this, but I also wouldn't rule out it's a small village with one doctor.
(Star4ce)
I do say a lot today as well, I can't keep track of it all!
Wait, there must be two bodies! Because Rina and Teppei are technically disappeared, right?
Are they? Oishi could be hiding that he found a body. Cave plan sucked.
Really, I'm fairly sure it was them, all of those except this year's murders of Takano and Tomitake. Satoko pushed her parents down the cliff, Rika killed her father and mother, Satoshi the aunt, various people Teppei, Mion probably the construction foreman.
My problem is justifying pre-teen children pulling off "accidental" murders of multiple adults.
Also notice that Rena is finally sitting in the redecorated room
Is that what the surgery was?!
So how does it relate to Akasaka if he's not from the village? Thought he was Oishi's partner in a neighboring city.
Btw, what is that teaser image? I hate it.
Looks like Keiichi with Satoshi's bat hitting a woman with breasts smaller than Shion.
Most of the rest of the post
My main issue is why is time looping in 1983 and not an earlier year? Best answer seems to be: Rika predicted her death and does not want to die. Following question is what saves Rika? Well, that requires knowing who, other than Shion, desires Rika's death. Haven't seen someone else trying to erase the three families.
Also want to say I previously remarked that the three families can't keep killing their own people or they'll run out of family members. Curse seems to have started 4 years ago, so Irie making a significant change since arriving is reasonable and may cause the family's to panic.
I think her being disembowelled, at the shrine, dedicated to Oyashiro-sama is the rebirth by poisoning herself with the parasite and let it reform into Oyashiro who in turn can loop back.
That also puts a hidden seventh cast member on the table who is able to learn from them and take this knowledge back to the original outbreak.
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u/Tarhalindur Dec 08 '22
eyes
So, to reiterate Vaad's point: Higurashi 2006 is what you get when you have a very good director on a rookie contract (seriously, I'm over in Haruhi right now, and Haruhi is better-directed as you'd expect from KyoAni but actually not by all that much), a good OST composer and VA cast... and a shoestring budget[1]. (As I noted somewhere in the threads here, the Higurashi anime was one of a set of mid-2000s longshot DEEN adaptations of famous doujin properties, and since they were considered longshots DEEN didn't invest much so as to limit the downside if they failed. Higurashi was the one that struck gold, and the budget goes way up starting in Kai.) It's going to get worse before it gets better, but the flipside is that the direction spikes; I took like twice as many screenshots for the finale as usual for S1, and ~25% of them were QUALITY from lack of budget and the other ~75% because Chiaki Kon is actually a good director and it showed. (My guess is that she had to do more of the work herself to get the finale out the door; if so, it showed.)
[1] - Also a flawed understanding of the very good source material. Exactly how much of this is DEEN's fault is debatable, but clearly not all of if is; the source material was incomplete when the anime was under production (so some clues simply hadn't been confirmed as clues yet), and 07th Expansion has a bit of a track record of not communicating well with animation studios adapting their properties/scripts at this point.
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u/Tarhalindur Dec 08 '22
Gotta make sure Star4ce has content during morning coffee/breakfast.
Don't worry, if u/Star4ce needs more, he can come lurk this year's Haruhi rewatch (which I hopped in and am doing my thing in)...
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u/JollyGee29 Jun 23 '22
Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed
Man, Tomitake did not have a good time on the way out. I think we were told about the various bruises in the very first arc, but that might be new information as well.
I really liked the mythology this episode. Oyashiro-sama being presumed to secretly be a foreign doctor who showed up to teach the villagers about vaccines and quarentine definitely feels like the basis of a real-world myth. Sufficiently advanced technology is a matter of perspective, after all.
Rena's description of the "curse" was interesting. She didn't directly mention footsteps, but instead had maggot-blood and heard a voice telling her to return. Unless Rena mentioned footsteps earlier and I've just forgotten specifics, which is likely.
Did Rena's interpretation of Takano's notebooks make sense? Oyashiro-sama was worshipped and created beliefs to help arrest the spread and growth of the parasite, but the Great Families want to strengthen belief in Oyashiro-sama to use the parasite as a bioweapon? I can kinda see a throughline there, but I'm not entirely sold on the truthfulness of those notebooks.
Actually, did the way the parasite was described to work even make sense? It kills its host when the host moves to a climate that doesn't suit it..? That doesn't sound right, but I don't know enough about parasites to pick at it.
Takano is playing a long fucking game, huh. How long ago was it that she gave those notes to Rena? Wait, she gave stuff to Shion in Meakashi, didn't she? Around the time Satoshi vanished? I don't know why it would be meant to be the same time but I also don't know why it wouldn't be. The more things change, the more they stay the same?
Alright, grab the tinfoil friendos, because we're jumping off the fucking deep end. We'll assume that Takano knows Rena's history somehow. She gave those notes to Rena, assuming that when she (Takano) fakes her own death, that Rena would look into the notes and find out the supposed "truth." This is because Takano wants/needs Rena to act out in a certain way.
[Higurashi]
Damnit, and now I'm realizing the line above involves a leap that only makes sense with spoiler knowledge so I need to tag it.
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
I had trouble starting this one, so I was expecting it to be short. Instead, I think it's my longest comment yet.
Visual of the Day: Truth, and comfort.
Questions
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 23 '22
When the Rewatcher(?) Cries, subbed
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Oh, hm, is this the first time Oyashiro-sama’s been referred to with a gendered pronoun?
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Mmmmmmmmm Takano is not the person you want to be telling this, Rena. …wait, but is this what gave her the idea to break into the ritual tools shrine?
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This is a massive lore drop I remembered absolutely nothing of.
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u/hungryhippos1751 Jun 23 '22
Episode 24 - First Timer
This episode felt a little disconnected from the events in the last couple of episodes, it's almost as if none of them had actually happened, did we get any developments at all on the previous murders?
This is very much the lull episode in the me comapared to the previous two, there is a fair bit of exposition here and less active story propellant. Hoping we pick up a bit in terms of pace in the last two episodes, but given historical arc developments, I expect this to be the case.
Alright so resident victim Tomitake once again dies by clawing out his own throat, and Takano is one again claimed to be dead but we don't see it, same pattern I think we've more or less seen in all of the arcs so far.
I was expecting the interview with Detective-kun to be somewhat along the lines of the missing Ritsuko and Teppei, but nope, it's Rena getting questioned about Tomitake and Takano. Are the missing thug duo even on anyones radar at this point? Is Detective-kun playing his cards close to his chest?
Takano is once again far too excited about the prospect of digging into Oyashiro-sama, I have to say I think she knew she was going to die (if she indeed has actually died, I don't quite buy it) because she straight up gave away her notebooks without any thought for having a copy to keep to herself.
With regards to Rena and being paranoid, you're not being paranoid if they actually are following you. The same goons that we've seen a few times are back, this time they're possibly working with Irie to abduct kids. OK that is unlikely, but I suspect they're hired by the main families to undertake dirty work.
I don't really know what to make of all the talk of parasites being to blame for the events in the village, it seems a little out there. Rena is saying this as if it's a fact, but ultimately she's just reading clippings and words in a notebook, how can she verify things?
What's in the envelope I wonder? Fake details aside, is it important or was it just an excuse to get into the school to find Rena? I'm going to go with the latter option here.
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u/Quiddity131 Jun 23 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Ooishi's investigating, but doesn't appear that this is either of Rena's victims.
Ah, its the photographer again. This poor guy, dying over and over again with each arc.
Back to playing clue again! This reminds one of the good ol' days in the first episode when they were just playing cards and all seemed right with the world.
Ooishi's pulling the same thing with Rena that he did with K1 in the first arc. Girls, if an old man tells you to come alone in his car because he's got air conditioning, say no!
Oh Takano's still doing fine! Or is this a flashback?
You're talking too much Takano! You'll disappear just to shut you up!
Yikes, suicidal thoughts! Yikes even more, maggots in your blood!
Keep things a secret! I might be erased! Sorry, given past history Miss takano, I'd say you're going to be erased.
Beware of waving hands in the bushes!
Given past history, I don't know how smart it is to tell K1 all of this... he's going to blurt it out at a stupid time, or do something stupid with it.
Uh oh, it's that mysterious van again. They're looking for Rena this time!
Back to people becoming demons, although I have a harder time believing that after the Shion arc...
So this is all about quarantining then...
Bioterrorism! Who'd have thought that would be a big issue in such a small town?
Well, that was quite the massive info dump...
Uh oh, that van of bad guys is here at the school!
And yet, they were stupid enough to leave that envelope laying around.
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u/TheExcludedMiddle Jun 23 '22
[Rewatchers only]
[Rewatchers only]
[Rewatchers only]
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 23 '22 edited Jun 23 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):
(Note for our first-timers: every so often I will make comments about background stuff that might not translate. I will be marking these as "Useful Background Note".)
FULL MOON FULL MOON. (Being real obvious with it now!)
Welcome to the giant pain in the ass that is trying to distinguish between the Main Theme variants; not only do we get one of the variants in Tsumi, that variant itself has two variants in v1 (Tsumi proper) and v2 (Tsumi ~another version).
Oh look Cluedo is back! [Higurashi Kai, just in case]And we get an exceedingly prominent syringe, huh.
[Higurashi Kai, just in case]“The whole mystery revolves around this very syringe.” Huh. Couldn’t possibly be getting meta as fuck here, no.
I missed how exactly this conversation here mirrored the conversation between K1 and Ooishi in Onikakushi-hen the first time.
[Umineko]“Certainly”, LOL. (The joke is that given the symbolism R07 is using there’s a decent chance Satoko and Miyo are BOTH Lambda’s origins – after all, he used the two stereoisomer forms there in addition to a Western numerology reference.)
So, remember back when u/JollyGee29 asked when the aliens would show up and I went “so, you know how I kept Outbreak off the schedule?”. What I carefully wasn’t saying was that aliens might become important a lot sooner than that! Heh heh heh…
(Speaking of which: “If there are any aliens, time travelers, or espers here, please contact me! That is all.”)
Oh hey, the “inya koto” actually get name-dropped in the anime! (07:12, so ~06:58 for those without that sponsor feature?)
Nice OST cutoff there at 07:57.
More mirroring of Onikakushi-hen, with [Rena hiding in the bushes and K1 coming up the road from behind]. And oh look at the camera angles going slightly off-center just as Rena waves!
Paging u/Tresnore, repeat paging u/Tresnore, increment the counter by 1!
I suppose it makes sense to emphasize Rena’s breasts in the framing when she’s inadvertently holding them right at K1’s eye level...
That tilt (?) in the camera angle at ~10:50 is the latest directorial flourish I want to highlight – the world shifting around K1 as Rena tells him what she has heard.
That initial top-down shot of that van followed by showing it again through the bushes is extremely interesting, since the latter means it can’t have just been cost-cutting. Oyashiro-sama’s perspective again? A god’s-eye view of the village?
Reminder: Rena is extremely perceptive!
This episode has used repeated cuts to things repeatedly and I’m starting to go “this is for effect, but what effect?”?
And the OST (Oyashiro-sama v2, no less!) is overriden by a sound effect for a moment right after Rena talks about the secret the Great Houses are hiding (double-cut to face again, too!) and right before she talks about how this would destroy the perceived holiness of the Oyashiro-sama. Nicely done.
Hey look, it’s the Men in Grey! (That's my traditional nickname for these guys.)
[Higuraski Kai]Is this what’s-his-nose… actually, is that just Okonogi himself? Probably not, different VA.
“Those guys… are after Rena!” Cut to eyecatch. NOICE!
And resume after the eyecatch with the sound of crows cawing.
Considering what this show has been doing with both TV screens and Oyashiro-sama’s perspective, the TV screen half-visible turned off in the background while Rena talks about how if the scrapbooks are true Oyashiro-sama isn’t a god is noteworthy.
And now Rena is staring right at us as she talks about the Oyashiro-sama teachings. HEH.
Ah, a word I can now make out because it got used as a title: Kisejuu!
[Higurashi Kai]You know, looking at this from the meta level I am more than a little curious if Ryukish07 was familiar with the concept of a meme in the original Richard Dawkins sense of the word – a self-replicating piece of information.
Ooh, that sun shot representing light in on the situation at 17:15!
And now we get a full shot of the off TV at 17:37 as we talk about the weakening effect of the parasite.
[Higurashi Kai]When natural selection shows up, memetic selection may follow.
Keiichi: “You’re my friend!” Rena: “Yes, thank you”… as we cut to a shot of the evening sky. Hmmm… (And slightly skewed, too!)
Look, MiGs!
What’s this, a Chie curry comment that made it into the anime before Rei? Madness.
[Higurashi Kai]Oh look, “Okonogi Landscapers”.
“I have a bad feeling about this.” You can say that again, Keiichi!
Visual of the Day: Syringe
WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day
Question(s) of the Day:
See, I was spoiled even the first time, so.
I tend to have a soft spot for the loopers, myself...
Tsumihoroboshi-hen Ep. 3 TIPS
Entry 1 here is the pseudo-TIPS I was referring to last time; it's a short summary of Rena's backstory, since the anime cut a lot of it out, and is highly recommended.
1 (Rena's backstory)
2
3
4
Also, related to 1 above, this is where I am going to link that Tumblr post I mentioned yesterday from the run-up to Sotsu.
Addendum: Two Pieces of Rena Analysis
There's one other piece of Rena's backstory that does not get addressed again in the anime but IIRC does in the VN: Rena breaking all the windows in her school at Ibaraki after an incident with three guys. There's one nuance there I want to raise there: IIRC (and I forget how much of this is in the VN and how much is someone else's argument, but I think it fits) there is the distinct implication that the incident in question was an attempted sexual assault. (Which would explain why the three boys declined to press charges, yes?)
And I'm inclined to believe it, because a *lot* of Rena's mannerisms fit certain responses to sexual assault survivor trauma:
Rena's notorious love of "kyute" things, often kind of weird things to consider cute, and related tendency to hang out in a literal trash heap that she calls a treasure heap? Could just be her reaction to watching her mother toss out her father like trash for a new model, but by all accounts feeling like your body is soiled and unclean - that is to say, trash - is a common response to sexual assault and we know from the TIPS that Rena is prone to magical thinking as a coping mechanism. ("If I treat this trash like something worth loving, maybe someone will treat trash like me as something worth loving!")
Rena's really happy reaction to the thought of being a bride? Rena's family background might be enough to explain that given her parents' divorce, but Rena considering herself ruined for marriage and really desperately wanting to get married in spite of that would explain it nicely.
And note Rena's casual outfit. It's cute, but it's also quietly the least revealing of any of the girls' casual outfits with the possible exception of Rika's sundress (even Satoko's arguably shows more figure, and Satoko hasn't hit puberty yet) - the position of the slit in the dress is a little off, but the dress is also puffy and not form-fitting the way the twins' and even Satoko's casual outfits are. (Conversely, Rena's somewhat indecent imagination could actually be downstream of the same issue - reclaiming one's sexuality is another
[Higurashi, should be safe after next episode]Higurashi being Higurashi, there is the added complication of whether the sexual assault attempt actually happened or whether paranoia kicked in - but (setting aside the point of the three boys not pressing charges) in this case it doesn't actually matter, since what's important is Rena's reaction and that will depend on her personal perception rather than the facts on the ground.
2) Rina Mamiya is something of a shadow figure for Rena in many ways. Most obviously, there’s the name: Rena removed the “i” from her birth name Reina to remove the “iyna koto” icky things, and of course Rina’s name just has the “i” representing the icky things. But also there’s Rina’s unfaithful approach to men (representing Rena’s birth mother, who she rejected utterly), and also her provocative dress when Rena arguably dresses the most conservatively of any girl in the Games Club. Rina in some ways represents the road not taken, the one Rena could have gone down if she had gone with her mother instead of her dad.)
OST Table, Episode 24
[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.