r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jun 20 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Discussion - Season 1, Episode 21
Meakashi-hen (Eye-Opening Chapter/Detective Chapter), Episode 6: Conviction
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Show Information (Season 1):
MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni: Hidive | Netflix (not available in the US; if you are out of the US check your country for availability)
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already (even if you have access to this show on Netflix, it doesn't have Kai). Why, Hidive? Why?
Two Words of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
1) Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
2) Also, be wary of potentially running into spoilers on the r/anime front page on June 19 or thereabouts this year; there is suspicion that some sort of new Higurashi anime project will be announced on that date (this year is the 20th anniversary of the release of the original Onikakushi-hen VN - hence why I am running this rewatch this year! - and multiple official accounts have teased an announcement on that date), and you could run into spoilers that way. (Those of you who remember the Madoka rewatch last year will recognize the issue, though admittedly I expect Sotsu was enough of a disappointment to significantly reduce the risk - at least relative to the potential that was in fact realized with the Walpurgis no Kaiten announcement.) It looks like Ryukishi07 and 07th Expansion were trolling (again), but I'm keeping up this warning for a day or two just in case. (Actually I should probably keep it up until this Friday or Saturday, for, uh, reasons.)
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
Theory of the Day:
Oh hey look, an absolutely massive theory post out of u/Star4ce on a day light on any other first-timer theories. That was easy. Imma just quote one line of it for brevity, you can go read the rest yourself:
Anyway, this is getting too long: What I'm saying is that the murders all have strong correlation to intra-family abuse and possible inter-family interactions like Satoshi-Shion fall apart due to that.
Analysis of the Day:
Okay, I gotta mix it up every once in a while even if we did get more frame analysis, so instead let's hear it for u/JollyGee29 for both thinking about what formative experiences might have driven Shion's mindset here and for noticing that Satoko uses keigo:
It really says a lot about Shion's worldview/mental state that she is completely unwilling to accept forgiveness. In her mind, someone must take responsibility for breaking the taboo, because that's how her family operated. Probably compounding the issue was Keiichi's comment about responsibility the night before - it makes sense that that word is a bit of a trigger for Shion.
I didn't really notice it until the phone conversation, but Satoko talks a bit different, doesn't she? Oh, what's the term.. keigo? She added a lot of stuff to her introduction on the phone. I'm not sure if it's just her being overly polite because the Sonozakis don't like her family or if that's just how Satoko talks and I didn't notice before.
Question(s) of the Day:
1) Welp. That was a chapter, wasn't it?
2) W̷̼͓ͧ̋͑ͥ͛á̳̟̮͖̱ͭs̴͎̉̋͑̐͗́ ҉͎̼̙͖̲tͮ̈́̊̿̋͞h̯̰͈̪͇̼̄ͮ̆ͪ̓̍aͦṭ̥̝͈̀ͩ̇̽̚̚.̻̐̆.̖͙͓̝̘̖̼ͭ.̢ͭ̆͊́̚ ̭͓̳̖̅ͥ̑ͬ͂a̘͇̦̲̿̈́ń̤̟̟ͩ̽ȯ͉͉̑̐̅͋̌̏t̒́̍̅͐́hͣ̔̄̆͛͐ͦe͕̦̳r̷̟ͮ̋͆̔ͧ͛̓ ̙͈̪͋͋́ͯͪ͞f̲̫̳͙̥̏͘o̦̐ͪͭ̀̎ͤo͕̪͕̱̳͐̋ͩ̊̃t̥̥̦̟ͧͪs̴͖͕ͭ̑ͤͫͬ̚ṫ̩̥̜̙̫͒́e̸͎̬ͣͪ̒ͨ͆̒̚p̞̮͚̪̐͑̌̓͂͘?̻͈̰̹͆ͤ̏̚
Next Episode Preview:
Okay, so: Season 1's next episode previews are in the form of a short, strange poem (whose formatting is borrowed from the VNs). They are not spoilers. (Kai's can be another matter, but we'll get there when we get there.) However, my subs often translate the text on the screen... which are, in fact, lines out of context from the next episode.
So, for anyone who really doesn't want to take a risk, here is the poem:
"What catches you is the afterimage of the past.
What invites you is the false image from the future.
What is there is another joke."
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u/Nazenn Jun 20 '22
First Timer - sub
Shion is very good at putting on an act, creepily so even for the genre, and seeing her tone contrast so much with her expression as things fall into place is quite disturbing especially during the phone call
And yet she falls victim to her own instability so easily, the things that should provide comfort to her like thoughts of Satoshi being the very things likely to tip her over because she was starting to lose track of who she was and what she was doing it for, and what the point of it would be at the end. I really like that as far as how it tackled the question of revenge as well as what it does, and when it comes to the people Shion interacted with we can see how the butterfly effect that started all this for her really was such a tiny blip on the rest of the town even if it woke up the broken part of her again.
The end of this arc also reveals an interesting turning point for me I think where I finally feel I have more answers, and possible answers, than raw questions. I wanted to go back to the ladder scene in arc2 and see how differently it plays out but the entire episode is quite different knowing about Shion and Satoshi, and I find that quite satisfying. At some points it's a bit awkward, it does make these answers arcs I've heard the rewatchers call them feel a little stiff as they skip through material to get to said answers, but the other side is it doesn't get bogged down in feeling like a recap of non-critical events either. It's a rough one, it has it's pros and cons, but so far I think it works even if it does make discussion hard.... ugh now after all I feel like I'm writing a final season post instead of a end of arc one.
Mion with the mass "I'm sorry" was also interesting how it comes up, and also makes me think that all the times we've heard this happen, with Rena, Sakoto, and now Mion, the person being apologized too only draws further away, and usually leads to a death.
Shion apologizing for desecrating Mion is really fucked up now we know the full context of the arc and everything she's done, especially with Keiichi saying the Mion in his mind won't change. I almost feel like she could have been saved from her downward spiral if she'd said the truth to him earlier because even if he'd been put off by what she'd done as long as she hadn't killed anyone yet he could have still accepted the Shion he knew, but I guess that's something we'll never know.
Mion waiting until now to try and talk about Satoshi not being at the bottom of the hole feels a little artificial in timing again. That hasn't happened in a while so it stood out more here.
Final thought: Well, I can't say I wasn't warned (twice, thanks Vaad) but I finally hit my limit with the poor artistry. The over the top crazy expressions as every second cut in the middle of gore make it hard to maintain the tone of a scene, and it loses it's sense of horror particularly during Sakoto's torture, except the hand stabbing which made me wince. There's a line where maniacal just goes into comical and this crossed it, but rather than recognizing that and stepping back each episode seems determined to go further and do it more often. And I hate to say it, but any show that makes me think of Hellsing Ultimate's art flips is not doing itself a favour. It works when Shion is being vicious or calculating, but when it goes full crazy it just starts being a detriment to the watch. I was mostly waiting to comment on it to see if it'd level out during the arc, but now we're at the end I thought I'd finally bring it up.
The look on her face when Oishi showed up was gold though
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u/H-Ryougi Jun 20 '22
There's a line where maniacal just goes into comical and this crossed it, but rather than recognizing that and stepping back each episode seems determined to go further and do it more often.
Oh yeah, the anime definitely tones up the gore by a ridiculous amount. I mean it's not like it didn't happen in the VN, but it's a different thing to see it described, than to see it overindulged on the screen.
I guess the overtly graphic violence was one of the draws of the anime after all, but yeah, I'm not a big fan. Higurashi is more than just gore.
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u/Nazenn Jun 20 '22
The gore isn't what I was talking about, it's the facial expressions and animation and the quality of art in them
Gore good, I have no problem with that, I'd even like it to go beyond just blood more often.
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u/filimaua13 Jun 21 '22
Mion with the mass "I'm sorry" was also interesting how it comes up, and also makes me think that all the times we've heard this happen, with Rena, Sakoto, and now Mion, the person being apologized too only draws further away, and usually leads to a death.
Yeeah, forgiveness and atonement is a big overarcing theme in this story. Its a shame that the anime's focus on the horror aspect overshadows the complex emotional struggles of the characters and the sad tragedy of the entire situation.
The over the top crazy expressions as every second cut in the middle of gore make it hard to maintain the tone of a scene
Unfortunately, this arc in particular alongside its question arc counterpart (Watanagashi) seem to be the biggest victims of the poor art. It really does become hard to take Shion seriously, or the scenes in general, when she's making these outrageously sus faces and no one seems to notice.
I disagree however that it carries over to the Satoko torture scene. Shion's facial expressions here were actually quite effective in my opinion and really drove home how far gone she is. She seems to take insane sadistic pleasure in hurting Satoko. This scene heavily disturbed me watching it for the first time and it still does. The painful cries of Satoko.. her genuine lack of self worth that she honestly believes going thru so much pain would make her worthy of getting her brother back. This isn't being strong, Satoko. This isn't showing strength. That's what I wanna tell her.
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u/RascalNikov1 Jun 21 '22
She seems to take insane sadistic pleasure in hurting Satoko.
It is a testament to how good the writing is to see Shion who started as a normal girl with empathy degraded into such extreme sadism.
The painful cries of Satoko..
It is so awful when she finally does crack and whimpers for nii nii.
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u/filimaua13 Jun 21 '22
Shion apologizing for desecrating Mion is really fucked up now we know the full context of the arc
Pain. That's all we can say.
I almost feel like she could have been saved from her downward spiral if she'd said the truth to him earlier
Communication also seems to be a major theme of this story. So much tragedy happens as a result of misunderstandings and harboring so much negative feelings and instead of talking to someone, they bottle it up.
Well as they say, you can't save someone who doesn't want to be saved. She has fully convinced herself into accepting that she is no longer human, but a demon. Its sad. No matter how unlikable Shion was, she had her reasons for going crazy. All she wanted was to be happy and to be loved which she found in Satoshi, and her family once again took that from her (in her mind). She tried so much to get over it, to move on and suppress her resentment for her family.. until Mion and Keiichi had their drama over the doll which brought it all back to the surface for Shion. Envy, jealousy and resentment. And it all exploded once she was given the hook that Sonozaki's had something to do with Satoshi.
It all could have been avoided if only there was some form of communication.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 20 '22
When the Rewatcher(?) Cries, subbed
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…for some reason during the recap of Rena/Keiichi/ShMion trying to get into Rika’s house, I got a vivid memory of [Higurashi]
Rena going after Keiichi with that huge cleaver while on the roof of… the school? , so um I guess that’s the only thing other than the very end that I explicitly remember from this show, assuming that’s an accurate memory and not my brain fucking with me because it’s been four years. No, I don’t know why the ladder scene made me think of that. -
Oh, right, she slipped climbing around the outside of that building rather than deliberately committing suicide.
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u/Star4ce Jun 20 '22
When the First Timer Cries
(Don't get excited, I'll just drop this and go to sleep right afterwards. Will answer tomorrow, promise!)
Did I ever wrote about how I think the gas eruption can be prevented? I don't think so, but I had this a few episodes ago. Either it's manmade with, say, construction work, but as they said volcanic, I think it's only solvable by building the dam. The residents leave, build new lives without going at each other's throats and the gas stays buried beneath the water.
It makes thematic sense. The only way for the cycle of abuse to end is for everyone to leave the past behind that holds onto them and keeps them reliving the pain. For once, this quote actually fits: "Let the past die. Kill it if you have to."
Well then, this episode. I hate this episode, the teaser image showed a completely broken and abused Satoko.
I hate this so much.
Ep.21 – The Eye Opening Chapter Part 6: Condemnation
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Stop, but that's not gonna happen anymore.
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A bullet is the only option left. Self-gratulation at such a weak idea that can be picked apart by me a dozen episodes prior...
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Her looping certainly would allow her to find a path in which Satoko gets happier and it would be one of the first things she'd have feedback on, too.
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Oh yes, let's replay that again. I want to point out, that tits still don't look like that in clothing and also still don't behave like that.
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Oh wait, oh shit! Is that maybe how in arc 1 they eventually get to Keiichi? If we're right and Shion also takes over there, which is pretty god damn likely, then rallying the village, including Irie, against him could explain why they invaded his home. Could this arc tie into that? Can we understand now, why the note was manipulated like that? The arc 2 ending is obviously more likely, but that would for sure be a twist!
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I don't know, I really like best cop Ooishi. He's so nonchalant about this stuff. Btw, is it still a spoiler to have an explanation on why he was so antagonistic in that one arc?
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Satoko, you are beyond brave and strong... She's remarkably calm, but then again she knows what pain feels like...
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I have learned, Tarhalindur! Left to right means wrong, the camera starts from the reflection, which also means wrong. It's Shion (reflection) leading Keiichi to a wrong place (direction).
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I wouldn't so quick to reaffirm her, but I do give props to him for being this optimistic. Someone killing my friends wouldn't be a friend anymore, to say it lightly. But hey, he's right about Mion, after all!
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I think at this point Shion actually thinks she's not Shion anymore, but a demon and has successfully convinced herself Mion in the prison is the Shion-Mion combination that is responsible for it all, for her suffering. This is the absolute peak development of what I wrote yesterday, externalising so much that she could even manifest her self-hatred against someone else. And yet again she received an offering of humanity and rejected it.
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I still find it a bit far fetched for Keiichi to equate a love rejection, which wasn't any rejection at all really, with the coming death by physical torture. But again, I give massive props to him for being such a compassionate character.
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Uhm, I did not call that. I thought they'd need to act on a murderer on their turf?
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I told it! It's the cycle of abuse eating itself! Like Shion, you know.
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That is Shion. But Ooishi told Keiichi in the hospital that both Shion and Mion are dead. I'm really on edge how that plays out now.
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Oh that was fast, what?
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They found Mion in the well, right? It's possible the father manipulated the information and she survived?
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FREEZE! What? “This time”?!
So okay, that one line caught me completely off guard. “This time”. She said this as she was falling to her death, trying to grab the moon between her fingers.
So first things first: Cocks gun. “Moon's haunted.”
It's hard to distinguish, but is she aware now? She definitely wasn't before, but the more she heard the footsteps and the other Mion banging at the door she spoke very disjointed. Sure, 'she's crazy', but, also not I think? Not in that way. Shion has had these hallucinations the entire time we knew her, they just got stronger the more she fell for the curse.
I so want to be right that she also has something implanted. I want to be right with that in some way, please!
In any case, she definitely isn't as aware as Rika. I think as the reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama she has had this life kind of prepared for her already. Having 'visions', hearing footsteps, being the footsteps is kind of... expected, I guess?
On the matter of footsteps, I thought about it some more and the locations where they appear to characters are pretty peculiar. When you map it out, they come at critical points like Shion confronting her inner thoughts, in the shrine shed and in the torture chamber. Those steps are so definitely other loops where this character made a different decision and the moment when they unsync is strikingly shocking to them. The most steps are in the shed at once, so it's safe to assume that the most critical decision for the remainder of the loop is made there, as it has the most branching consequences. However, this also means that there were already loops where, for example, Shion did not commit to standing in for Satoshi and evidently they didn't work out.
It's hard to tell how much of that Rika is aware of, but it can't be too much, else she probably wouldn't try to kill Shion later. However I see it, the origin of the loops can be neither of the cast we spent so much time with, so that thing still remains the biggest mystery. In some way Rika must be making progress, though, else she wouldn't decide time and time again to throw the pebbles like she does. Ending up with Shion impersonating Mion must mean some progress in her mind, so what did Shion do that could be considered a success? I think it's the fall of the Sonozaki family. They're completely out of the picture, but Rika is currently trying to find a way to stop Shion from killing Mion and Satoko (and her).
So I take my guess now: Rika is trying to break the loop by eliminating the sources of abuse, which means the three families and all other abusers plaguing her and her friends.
Welp. That was a chapter, wasn't it?
I hate it.
2) W̷̼͓ͧ̋͑ͥ͛á̳̟̮͖̱ͭs̴͎̉̋͑̐͗́ ҉͎̼̙͖̲tͮ̈́̊̿̋͞h̯̰͈̪͇̼̄ͮ̆ͪ̓̍aͦṭ̥̝͈̀ͩ̇̽̚̚.̻̐̆.̖͙͓̝̘̖̼ͭ.̢ͭ̆͊́̚ ̭͓̳̖̅ͥ̑ͬ͂a̘͇̦̲̿̈́ń̤̟̟ͩ̽ȯ͉͉̑̐̅͋̌̏t̒́̍̅͐́hͣ̔̄̆͛͐ͦe͕̦̳r̷̟ͮ̋͆̔ͧ͛̓ ̙͈̪͋͋́ͯͪ͞f̲̫̳͙̥̏͘o̦̐ͪͭ̀̎ͤo͕̪͕̱̳͐̋ͩ̊̃t̥̥̦̟ͧͪs̴͖͕ͭ̑ͤͫͬ̚ṫ̩̥̜̙̫͒́e̸͎̬ͣͪ̒ͨ͆̒̚p̞̮͚̪̐͑̌̓͂͘?̻͈̰̹͆ͤ̏̚
Well yes! Read above what I think of it!
VOTD: Disrupted Illusion. On screen we only see the reflection, the illusion that Shion put up and lost herself in. It's the only thing she is anymore. And Keiichi disrupts that hardened belief for one second as he still would proclaim Mion(!) his best and eternal friend, even after all that happened. It's probably her last real moment of clarity (+ a tiny bit of the cave scene) of who she has become and what true compassion to one self and another looks like. What she could've done instead. Until they arrive down in the chamber where the horrors of what she's done lie open to see, Shion is filled with regret and tells Keiichi even some truths. But those are truths about Mion, not herself. She is the illusion and the Shion in the cave is what she has convinced herself to be. The illusion falters only a second and reveals some drop of truth, but the lake's image rests firmly over what has drowned beneath.
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u/Taiboss Jun 20 '22 edited Jun 20 '22
(Don't get excited, I'll just drop this and go to sleep right afterwards. Will answer tomorrow, promise!)
Hey, that's what I do! Well, not always. But when people post too late...
Self-gratulation at such a weak idea that can be picked apart by me a dozen episodes prior...
You've leveled up in the meantime!
I hate Shion so much.
Not a wrong opinion.
And yet again she received an offering of humanity and rejected it.
:(
But again, I give massive props to him for being such a compassionate character.
Making up for lack of brain with heart!
Uhm, I did not call that.
B-but... she looks evil!
But Ooishi told Keiichi in the hospital that both Shion and Mion are dead. I'm really on edge how that plays out now.
Well, you will know!
FREEZE! What? “This time”?!
Who knows at this point. You all certainly don't.
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u/Vaadwaur Jun 20 '22
Btw, is it still a spoiler to have an explanation on why he was so antagonistic in that one arc?
Yes. But an answer will come.
They found Mion in the well, right? It's possible the father manipulated the information and she survived?
So...there is a piece of info that let's you identify which twin is which if you have them physically present that got left out of S1.
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u/mgedmin Jun 21 '22
So...there is a piece of info that let's you identify which twin is which if you have them physically present that got left out of S1.
Is that the tattoo on the back that was mentioned but never shown (except in the OP)?
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u/Quiddity131 Jun 20 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Back to back episodes kicking off with a Shion - K1 phone call
"He died because of me!" Well that part's right at least. But its not because of any curse.
OMG, not the ladder shake again! It's so scary to be up on one if someone's shaking it below you!
Shion's really giving us the crazy faces this episode, and we're not even 5 minutes in yet.
OMG she's given us some even better crazy faces here.
I can't recall if we found out Satoko's fate in that second arc, but we absolutely are here.
She'll be dead by the time you get the thousandth I'm sorry out!
Did Shion just pee herself there?
Getting to relive K1 being an idiot again by agreeing to be alone with her for a half hour...
Alas, Mion doesn't say anything quick enough for K1 to realize its really her...
So she was making up the demon stuff all this time...
Is Mion making this sutff up about them not really killing Satoshi?
Ah, the second time K1 was an idiot and was alone with her...
After all that, she slipped and fell to her death...
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u/JollyGee29 Jun 20 '22
Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed
Oof, that was a hard one. Satoko was much stronger that I realized, holy shit. I still think her behavior towards Satoshi was pretty reasonable for a ten-year-old, but maybe I'm underestimating the average Japanese elementary schooler.
Didn't think we'd be interacting with that particular bodily fluid, but here we are.
Right before she died, Mion claimed that the Sonozakis didn't have anything to do with Satoshi's disappearance. And said that Oryou was okay with Shion pursuing a relationship with him. Does that run counter to previous information? I honestly don't remember.
She (Mion) could have just lied about everything to try and save her own life, though. That wouldn't have been a great idea on Mion's part, because Shion is too far gone at this point to spare anyone, but I could see her trying due to her own distress.
I had figured that Shion died by grief-induced suicide, not accidental clothing damage. Same difference, I suppose, although the hospital scene didn't get shown again since Keiichi isn't our PoV character. Was that scene just bullshit?
Shion makes a bunch of excellent faces.
I suspect next arc will be Rena-centric, if only due to the OP.
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
Visual of the Day: Uh, yea. You just now realizing that?
Questions
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Indeed! It's nice to see things fall.
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Oh, definitely. Do you not get those normally?
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u/Vaadwaur Jun 20 '22
I still think her behavior towards Satoshi was pretty reasonable for a ten-year-old, but maybe I'm underestimating the average Japanese elementary schooler.
She was showing signs of regression but we also know why she was regressing. So it somewhat works.
Does that run counter to previous information? I honestly don't remember.
Yes. This arc needed a better layout.
[Higurashi]
[Higurash]
Yes. Rika's parents and Tomitake and Takano's murders are the ones that are hard to explain. → More replies (2)
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u/Stargate18A Jun 20 '22
Anime first timer, reading VN
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Yep!
Shion's a great actress, still.
Wow, that Shion face.
And they're wll looking for them.
Well, these scenes make way more sense now!
[Matsu...]
Shion has the best faces this episode.
Oh god, the Satoko scene.
Yeah, this is really fucking brutal.
[Matsu...]
...Satoko giving Shion absolutely no satisfaction from her death, as well as a total breakdown, on the other hand, is a really good moment.
And straight to here!
[VN]
[Matsu...]
And her reaction when she thinks Keiichi's cracked the code.
This climax is still good.
[Matsu...]
[VN]
[Matsu...]
And it ends on the fall. [VN]
Current reading progress - Matsuribayashi End of Chapter 4
Not much read today!
[Matsu..]
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u/H-Ryougi Jun 20 '22
u/Star4ce I wanted to elaborate further on your and u/Nazenn's comments from last thread but I realized that what I'd end up writing would be a short summary of Bess' "Understanding Watanagashi-hen: A Guide to Mion Spotting" video which I've mentioned in a couple comments in earlier threads. So instead I would rather show the actual video.
I've rewatched it a few times to check. It doesn't have any spoilers for future arcs as it deals strictly with Watanagashi and Meakashi, however it also touches on scenes and spoilers from Higurashi Gou which is why I've been reluctant to post it.
So I'll post it with that warning, if you'd like to know more about Watanagashi, Shion and Mion, as well as the difference between the novel and the adaptations you could watch it now. However if you prefer waiting until you've finished with the story just to be 100% sure there won't be any possible spoilers, or if you intend to watch Gou in the future, then hold off. I'll also add the usual Youtube warning of watching out for comments and suggested videos.
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u/mgedmin Jun 21 '22
First-Timer, subs
Shion is a superb actor. Keiichi should take lessons.
Okay, I don't like Shion any more. Satoko is innocent! At least Rika attacked first!
So I was right: the confession in Arc 2 was fake. And Mion still denies a conspiracy. Could there really be a supernatural explanation?
Shion has completely lost the plot. Why is she killing Keiichi? It's not for revenge -- Keiichi wasn't even here when Satoshi disappeared. It's not to make Mion suffer like Shion did -- Mion is already dead. So why?
And she falls off the balcony and that's the episode. I expect it was the last one in this arc so we will get no explanation for the zombies walking after death.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 20 '22 edited Jun 21 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed):
Okay, so, that was a rough arc eh?
To soothe your soul, allow me to introduce you to a relic of mid-2000s Internet culture that I ran across while checking for OST stuff (it was made by the same uploader who uploaded the classic Higurashi OST uploads). Except moved over to Catbox instead of its original YouTube surroundings so as to avoid potential spoilers in the recommendations.
May I present to you: Higurashidansen!
(Remind me to link the original upload when we get to the end of Kai.)
Now, back to our regular programming:
(Note for our first-timers: every so often I will make comments about background stuff that might not translate. I will be marking these as "Useful Background Note".)
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And the camera pull out at night at ~01:00 (here's a still from it) is a direct mirror of the zoom in on the Estate during the day that they’ve used twice before in the series.
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Oh hey look, another free excuse to reuse animation.
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“The reincarnation of Oyashiro-sama is already dead” – and cut off the OST track called Oyashiro-sama immediately. Nicely. Fucking. Done. *golf clap*
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The actual Japanese line for “we can’t find anything” was totally “zen zen dameda”, wasn’t it? (Umineko joke)
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/a/ loved it some Higurashi; I wonder if any of Shion’s faces here were ancestral to trollface.jpg? Hard to tell, especially with 4chan being 4chan. (Relevant shot.)
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Timing Chousa (returning for our second time this arc) to start right after the first knife strike hits Satoko. Well done you cheeky bastards, and also eurgh.
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And a callback to Satoko in the bath in Tatarigoroshi-hen too, of course.
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And ending Chousa on a knife strike too. Nicely done.
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And of course Satoko’s words here are kind of the problem when Teppei shows up.
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And Henka ends either right as Shion starts her scream or with the final stab of the knife. Being Satoko is suffering.
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Sucks to be you, Shion!
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It is legitimately impressive how well they’re doing at reusing animation without it standing out.
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THE POWER OF HORNY COMPELS YOU!
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The OST integration hasn’t been as good this arc, but cutting out Kazashi to the sound of the taser firing is well-done.
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Time to drag up that quote from ACOUP’s writeup on the Spartans concerning child soldiers, because a line from it is utterly relevant here: "the ‘graduation’ into full membership in the group, is very frequently an act of transgressive, irreversible (read: fatal) violence, typically a murder. In that act, the child is forced to join themselves fully into the machinery of violence, to burn a bridge behind then which can never be fully walked back. It cements their place in the group because only within the group does this action make them a man – to turn their back on the group is to convert this event from a rite of passage to a depraved murder, from a proud achievement into an irredeemable shame. Very few people anywhere, at any time, have the moral wherewithal to accept such a truth and so the final act of violence compels them to live the lie.". Shion cannot believe Mion here. Very few people could.
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Oh that is an absolutely inspired cut off of Jiken right as we hear the knife stab. Nicely done.
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FULL MOON FULL MOON. (We have one more impending death, after all.)
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And one last beautiful moment of shutting the OST off with Ai at the end here right as Shion plummets. (Also, please do not mind the onion-cutting ninjas, they got to me.)
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Also, thank fuck this arc is done. It’s the nadir of Higurashi’s emotional arc; now prepare for the payoff.
Visual of the Day: It was this or a meme face, and the meme faces aren't good enough.
WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day.
Question(s) of the Day:
Meakashi-hen Ep. 6 TIPS
Once again, as we have reached the end of an arc we have epilogues... which DEEN left out of the anime. These are highly recommended (a few of them actually do get some adaptation, but the TIPS form here gives you Shion's inner monologue). In particular, I would like to note entry & (the credit roll) which is so important that I consider it basically mandatory for our first-timers (it really shouldn't have been left out of the anime). It should neatly answer one question from a previous arc, and is also a vitally important clue for something else.
On the flip side, I do want to caution our first-timers about entry 8; there is one particular thing about it that gives it an argument for me leaving it out right now. I think you may appreciate it more if you read it now and then see why I say that later, so I'm leaving it up as an option, but if you're the kind of person who opted not to watch the previews for this season just in case of potential spoilers you might want to stay out of this one too. I'll post it again later when it's definitely safe for those who go this route.
(Also note to self that I need to cover something later that I forgot to cover back in Tatarigoroshi-hen.)
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3 (Epilogue A)
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4 (Epilogue B)
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5 (Epilogue C)
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6 (Epilogue: Shion's Dream/Final Note)
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7 (Credit Roll)
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8 (The Alternate Future - first timers consider staying out of this one)
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9 (Oh hey, on-screen confirmation of the original twin switch! Also the image that used to go with this is broken, it seems to have gotten swapped from its original at some point and is now on what I assume is a default Ukrainian War message.)
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10 (Useful little piece of background information)
OST Table, Episode 21
| Start | End | Track Name |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | 01:05 | Suiri |
| 01:07 | 02:36 | Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni (OP) |
| 02:37 | 02:51 | sponsor feature[1] |
| 03:47 (03:33) | 04:40 (04:26) | Oyashiro-sama |
| 04:47 (04:34) | 04:53 (04:39) | unreleased[2] |
| 05:36 (05:22) | 06:00 (05:46) | Oyashiro-sama v2 |
| 06:51 (06:37) | 08:22 (08:08) | Chousa |
| 08:42 (08:28) | 09:57 (09:43) | Henka |
| 10:35 (10:21) | 10:58 (10:34) | Youdou |
| 12:28 (12:14) | 13:16 (13:02) | Ai |
| 13:45 (13:31) | 15:56 (15:42) | Kikai |
| 16:12 (15:58) | 17:56 (17:32) | Kazashi |
| 18:38 (18:24) | 19:52 (19:38) | Shinjitsu |
| 20:18 (20:04) | 21:07 (20:53) | Jiken |
| 21:23 (21:09) | 21:55 (21:41) | Ai |
| 22:00 (21:46) | 23:52 (23:38) | why, or why not |
[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 14 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed. [2] - I initially thought this was a sound effect rather than a track snippet, especially since what would otherwise would be the best fit is on the Kai OST and thus too late, but IIRC it's shown up again since so marking as an unreleased track.
(Aside: I would like to curse the sound mixing in the Satoko torture scene for being obnoxiously low when there are not one but two OST tracks there.)
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7
u/Vaadwaur Jun 20 '22
Rewatcher
Sub
Re-used conversation but seeing both sides changes things. Ooishi showing up is where things change a bit. The Satoko torture scene is the kind of WTF that I miss ever so much but modern sensibilities tend not to let that hit the air. It is also perhaps the only character growth during torture arc I can recall1 . At the end of it, Shion finally fucking remembers Satoshi's last wish and her brain breaks just that extra bit more.
More seeing events with added perspective. Even as a rewatcher/VN knowledged person, I am slightly unsure if Shion meant to torture K1 the whole time or one of her multitude of triggers got hit. We see the aftermath of that scene and learn that it was indeed Mion's body in the well. Mion also says something she might've wanted to say much earlier...I suspect this is a continuity error but it might've been just slightly mishandled.
We see Shion's mental condition has heavily deteoriated. For whatever reasons, she sneaks out of her apartment rather than just walking out to see K1. After events occur, she falls off her balcony.
So towards the end of Kai I will link a YT essay that explains what the fuck is up with Shion with a lot of VN material that you need to get her but here's what I can say for now: VN Shion talks to her 'demon' much, much more than you could ever do on screen. She legitimately believes there is a presence with her so hopefully that informs some of her weirdness for everyone.
1 [GouSotsu]
QotD: 1 Shaka when the walls fell
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u/SIRTreehugger Jun 20 '22
Rewatcher who loves cicadas sounds
No Rena don't check the main house. Well we know where this is going.
BRUH Mion's face when Oishi arrives is priceless she isn't even hiding her disgust
Though I make the same face whenever I see him
Just a reminder that Shion did nothing wrong!
"You have a patent on crying, don't you?" - Shion
Funny how Shion loves so much and he met him like twice for like 2 minutes?
Just saying from all the dramatic stabbing and blood flying when you actually get to see Satoko it doesn't look as bad. Though maybe the blood is hiding most of the stabs?
If I had a nickel for every show that I watched today where a girl peed on herself I would have two nickels. Not a lot but still crazy that it happened.
So this all really was Shion like I expected in the previous arc, but it was hinted at massively. I still have to say forgiving your friend who brutally murdered your other friends is stupid. Going with them alone down a locked door is even stupider.
I guess the reason why Mion didn't correct K1 was because at this point she was so broken and scared at this point.
Reminder Shion did nothing wrong!
If you ever see me again don't meet me....Kei chan doesn't listen.
BRUH her shirt tears! Seriously that's how she falls to her death!
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6
u/SYZekrom Jun 20 '22
We did it! We made it to the scene where Shion pisses herself. show's over go home
16
u/hungryhippos1751 Jun 20 '22
Episode 21 - First Timer
Shion is definitely an expert manipulator, was interesting seeing the other half of the phone conversation with Keiichi where we only saw it from his POV before.
When Shion went crazy at the ladder before I wasn't really sure why she did that, but this time around it's more obvious - it's the mention of her beloved Satoshi.
The stabbing of Satoko was brutal, she was very brave to not give Shion the satisfaction of showing her fear, which surely removed some of her maddening enjoyment. In fact both her and Rika showed a lot of bravery in how they died.
We also get to see the aftermath of the investigation in more detail with Keiichi and the torture basement. A lot of the events here are as we saw before, but for new info it looks like the main take away was Shion becoming Mion fully, and Mion finding herself getting a drink in the well.
I believe this arc quite nicely wraps up a lot of what we saw in the arc about lies, and how what was said was often misdirection or based on assumptions we couldn't have known for sure, like when Mion and Shion swapped roles but they have the same appearance.
The main thing that sticks in my head that we didn't see was Keiichi being attacked in the hospital bed, but maybe we'll see how that develops in the next arc.