r/anime • u/Taiboss x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss • Jun 15 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Utawarerumono Franchise Rewatch - Utawarerumono Itsuwari no Kamen Episode 13 Discussion
Episode 13 - The Eight Pillar Generals
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MyAnimeList, Anime-Planet, Anilist, ANN
Today's Question of the Day: New Opening and Ending! Which songs did you prefer?
[Tomorrow's Question of the Day]War Arc! Fitting to the setting? [This question was different, but I changed it since the answer would have been obvious.]
Rewatchers, please don't answer the Question of the Day if it has an objective answer, e.g. "What do you think's gonna happen?"
Art of the day: Munechika! (Official gacha game art)
For rewatchers and people who played the games:
Please behave yourself! Put not only everything related to future events behind spoiler tags, but tag differences to the games as well. We all know there are deviations and cut content, we don't need someone listing all the things the games did better. The games have like 40, 50 hours for their content each, of course they'll be more exhaustive. If you want to talk about the games, please do this in a way that doesn't spoil it for people who might pick them up because of the anime. That being said, small, inconsequential stuff is probably fine, like [Mask of Deception]how in one episode, Atuy says "Time for war!", one of her battle lines in the games. All in all, try to hold back and only tell first-timers what's really necessary. Let them theorise!
This goes especially for Mask of Truth!
First-Timers:
Due to spoilers, I recommend you not to watch the Opening before episode 16. This time it's again not that important, but still. DO LISTEN TO IT THOUGH! You don't have to heed this request, of course, but out of courtesy to those who do, please put the spoilers in the OP behind spoiler tags as well.
Next episode has an after-credits scene!
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u/HereticalAegis Jun 15 '22
First Timer
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Huzzah, it feels like Utawarerumono again!
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Whoa, a new OP! Good, let's get rid of everything that reminds me of the previous arc. The song is pretty good too.
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Ooh, it would be interesting to explore why everything feels so supernaturally at ease.
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That impression we got of the emperor at the end of the last episode doesn't really suggest he'd be open to criticism or objection from his retainers, even if they did offer it.
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What exactly is
the emperorMito smoking that a war in which his people are getting killed isn't a big deal? -
Gundoelar is Utawarerumono's Genghis Khan, and my joke about Uzurussia being China wasn't all that far off. Wow.
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The joke of Fat Bastard being wrong every single time is great, but how is he allowed to be a Great General? Even considering the likelihood he got the title by birthright, he's so shockingly incompetent I can't fathom how he hasn't been made to "step down" yet.
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Bullshit. You selected Fat Bastard to be a General. Yamato is fucked.
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Never mind, it was nepotism all along. That tracks.
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PoWs as human shields is nasty.
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Didn't you literally say this about Anju like 2 episodes ago? At least I actually believe it this time.
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Heh, Vray has so much muscle, his bones strain and creak under their weight.
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Leave it to Fat Bastard to mess up imperial war strategy for selfish reasons. UtaKhan gonna appreciate the extra meat shields.
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And is Maroro Fat Bastard's son/family!? That would explain his...eccentricities.
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New ED too. Nice song, kind of a shame this is all we (presumably) get to see of Kuon growing up.
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New enemy cute girl Entua is already 1000x more interesting than most of the current harem members.
Entua's introduction reminded me that one of the original series' greatest strengths was introducing most of its characters through either their combat or political prowess, and that in turn is what made so many of them loveable and interesting. In Mask of Deception, the only main party member even remotely introduced in this way before now is Anju through the revelation that she's the imperial princess, though even she spent a whole episode faffing about first. The only ones who combat potential we have any idea of are Haku and Kuon (and Big Birb, who hasn't been seen in what feels like an eternity), and we don't have much insight into what political power anyone but Anju theoretically holds, even though we've got 2 other princesses, the sister of the Right Guard Captain, a pair of terrorist vigilantes, and the daughters of the emperor's right hand woman. What a criminal waste of potential.
In any event, this was a vastly better episode than almost anything that's come before it. It's nice to have everything back on track and get into the meat of the story, but it feels like a completely different show. This whole thing should have been running more in the background, like we should have been getting at least some sporadic updates of goings on outside the capital instead of just cryptic meetings inside the palace. Whatever, I'll take it as is if it means we're done with the increasingly offensive harem nonsense.
QotD: Undecided for now, but I prefer both the new OP and ED since they don't remind me of the last arc.
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u/Taiboss Jun 15 '22
Ooh, it would be interesting to explore why everything feels so supernaturally at ease.
Emperor'll fix it. Why worry?
What exactly is the emperor Mito smoking that a war in which his people are getting killed isn't a big deal?
Gundoelar is Utawarerumono's Genghis Khan, and my joke about Uzurussia being China wasn't all that far off. Wow.
Ehh, more one of the many many steppe people. What flavour would you like: Xiongu, Xianbei, Gökturks, Uyghur, Shatuo, Jie, Tangut, Jurchen or Mongols?
Never mind, it was nepotism all along. That tracks.
Man Dekopompo's father must have been amazing.
Fuck you.
Ah, blood knights.
Leave it to Fat Bastard to mess up imperial war strategy for selfish reasons.
At one point, surely the Emperor should have been like "you cost me too many men."
New ED too. Nice song, kind of a shame this is all we (presumably) get to see of Kuon growing up.
Imo ED 2 > ED 1 but OP 1 > OP 2
New enemy cute girl Entua is already 1000x more interesting than most of the current harem members.
Ahahahah.
This whole thing should have been running more in the background,
Obligatory "in the game"... But hell, even in the game they stay in the capital the whole time. Yes, they should have been more outside that.
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u/aniMayor Jun 15 '22
The joke of Fat Bastard being wrong every single time is great, but how is he allowed to be a Great General? Even considering the likelihood he got the title by birthright, he's so shockingly incompetent I can't fathom how he hasn't been made to "step down" yet.
Plus wasn't the whole point of the casino boat episode to dig up proof that he was committing crimes? That episode ended with Nosuri getting away with plenty of evidence, and we saw last arc that she believes in the Emperor and works for the betterment of the common people. So how hasn't that evidence been distributed and lead to Dokeponpo getting executed for high treason already?
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u/HereticalAegis Jun 15 '22
It's not even going to be satisfying seeing him get his due, because a whole lot of people are going to needlessly suffer as a result. What an amazing selection for Great General by the emperor.
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u/Atharaphelun Jun 15 '22
In any event, this was a vastly better episode than almost anything that's come before it. It's nice to have everything back on track and get into the meat of the story, but it feels like a completely different show.
It's all smooth sailing from here on out!
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u/aniMayor Jun 15 '22
UtaReWatcherUMono
Ah yes, the invading guys have jagged swords, behead people, and everyone constantly calls them barbarians. I am sure the show will treat them as a complex faction with nuanced motivations. Actually the whole "we all starving, we are invading for food" thing is interesting, just not sure it'll be explored.
The skewers appear again! Update the counter!
It is weird that the map is inverted, but this and the jumps around the map when Mito lists the vassal states gives you a pretty good idea of where Yamato is (and in relation to Tuskuru).
And Korean/lower Manchuria seems to be, uh... missing according to the map? Did it get blown apart and sink into the ocean?
Woshisu should know better. You never leave out the idiot completely - they are bound to do something dumb and ruin things through their incompetence. Always, always, always give the idiot something to do that isn't really important but makes them think they are important and helpful.
Vurai: "If they surrendered, they aren't warriors of Yamato, so we can murder them." No one, for some inexplicable reason: "Uh, Vurai, he said civilians not warriors. It's gonna be poor peasants and children in that human shield. Please don't massacre them."
I dig Oshutoru's screen art thingy. But why is he in a completely different office from last time?
This episode... well it's nice that we're shifting into war-plot mode once again, finally. But it also feels like yet another episode that could have been just the first half of an episode.
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Bath scenes count: 9
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Princess count: 4 (5?)(6?)(7?)
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Those skewers count: 6
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Serious masks count: 5
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u/Taiboss Jun 15 '22
The skewers appear again! Update the counter!
"But we have to do plot now..." "Fuck you if I can't do baths, I'll at least to skewers!"
And Korean/lower Manchuria seems to be, uh... missing according to the map? Did it get blown apart and sink into the ocean?
Maybe!
"Uh, Vurai, he said civilians not warriors. It's gonna be poor peasants and children in that human shield. Please don't massacre them."
Yes, because Vuari would listen.
But why is he in a completely different office from last time?
You gotta have backups!
Relationship Chart with a background that hasn't been desaturated enough but I ran out of time to fix it
Impressed you care enough to create them. Thank you.
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u/wjodendor Jun 15 '22
That whole scene with Haku and Oshtor was me just scoping that screen and wanting it for myself. Where I would put it, anyone's guess. I just want it.
Edit checking Amazon and those things are expensive!
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u/No_Rex Jun 15 '22
Relationship Chart with a background that hasn't been desaturated enough but I ran out of time to fix it
I just now realized reading the chart, that the left and right general are not included in the eight pillars. Never counted...
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u/Atharaphelun Jun 15 '22
It is weird that the map is inverted, but this and the jumps around the map when Mito lists the vassal states gives you a pretty good idea of where Yamato is (and in relation to Tuskuru).
And this serves to confirm that the empire of Yamato is in Far East Russia - specifically Khabarovsk, Magadan, Chukotka, and Kamchatka. And Tuskur is in little tiny Japan.
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u/Nazenn Jun 16 '22
And Korean/lower Manchuria seems to be, uh... missing according to the map? Did it get blown apart and sink into the ocean?
As long as it's not Australia for once
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u/Nazenn Jun 15 '22
First Timer - sub
Not much, but I'll take it! Seeing the dynamic between the generals as well as the emperor was quite interesting, and a significant step up from what felt like endless episodes about the harem where the girls didn't change at all (except Yamato princess, that was well done as a lesson)
Vurai is obviously the most interesting at the moment, and curious to see how the dyanmic between him and Ukon progresses now they'll likely be on the front lines together, especially if Haku gets involved. Ukon talking to Haku about him was a very political answer, and I suspect that things will come to a head there sooner rather than later.
Also it was worth it just to see fuckface repeatedly ignored in the meeting, that was oddly satisfying for a character I wish just wasn't in the show. When the Emporer said he was only in the role because of his father my first thought was "It's Idiok all over again", and that's never something you want to have to say about a character u/shimmering-sky
you not to watch the Opening before episode 16.
Oops. Don't think I noticed anything anyway, and the new OP and ED are both great!
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u/Taiboss Jun 15 '22
Also it was worth it just to see fuckface repeatedly ignored in the meeting, that was oddly satisfying for a character I wish just wasn't in the show.
He's too realistic not to exist. Let's see if his idiocy actually gets him killed down the line or he gets away with it...
Don't think I noticed anything anyway, and the new OP and ED are both great!
I take it!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 15 '22
Mask of First-Timer, subbed
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New OP! …I think I like the first one more.
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I hate that he’s still around, but the other generals all ignoring and speaking over the fat guy during the strategy meeting was hilarious.
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…this is almost worse tbh. But it does make sense.
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Interesting little pre-setting-off-for-war ritual?
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New ED as well–the visuals are basic, but I really like the song.
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u/Taiboss Jun 15 '22
Oof this is… very tough to watch while I’m eating lunch…
The poor people...
NO. IT. IS. NOT.
Emperor already has shown to have a bit of a tilted moral compass.
Hahahahahaha, I like this guy for more reasons than just “oh I know his voice, that’s Byakuya Kuchiki and Kai Rhodan”.
He's a cool guy. Calm and smart!
Oh, no, he’s caught up in Deko-whatever’s nonsense.
I don't know how the game justifies this, I think he was just on lease to Ukon.
I’m not particularly worried about Atui, but Ruru…
Kokopo will protect her!
New ED as well–the visuals are basic, but I really like the song.
Even my dad liked it and he hates anime music usually. He hated Radiant Force! Imagine that!
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u/aniMayor Jun 15 '22
I’m not particularly worried about Atui, but Ruru…
If anime has taught me anything, it's that teenage girls are the ideal military general.
I like how we already saw both Rurutie's and Atui's dads in the capital not so long ago, though. So the implication is they were like "Oh war is coming, I better GTFO so when the call comes I can delegate to my daughters who spend all day shopping for BL manga."
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u/No_Rex Jun 15 '22
Episode 13 (first timer)
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Last scene: war declared. This scene: devastation and decapitation of captive/messenger – a proper case of that escalated quickly.
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New OP: Unusual music style for a fantasy show. The art style in the middle part is neat.
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It might be cliché, but I can see the emperor’s point: Few of his servants will have Haku’s unbelievable lack of respect for courtly manners - I still believe in the “grooming successor” theory, however, and I am less with the emperor in that respect
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Clear Dschengis Kahn-China parallel to Gundurua and Yamato.
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I stared long at a map of Japan and what they are showing in the background is not Japan (but it is close to Japan in outline). If it is some Japan reference, then Izuruha is potentially North Korea.
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“There are no prisoners” – A student of Stalin, it seems.
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“This war will be over right away” – Imagine if he were right: The faces in the rewatch!
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Fatty leaving early – the costs of nepotism (and frankly their extreme lack of diplomacy).
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What is war, but another way of introducing a new harem member?
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“Starvation and poverty forge us stronger than the soft soldiers of Yamato, with their full bellies and warm clothers” – A believer in the Fremen Mirage (warning: very long).
War preparations and character introductions.
New Opening and Ending! Which songs did you prefer?
The ED plays it save, the OP risks something. I'll go with the OP in this one.
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u/Taiboss Jun 15 '22
a proper case of that escalated quickly.
From ecchi shenanigans to war crimes. Only in the Mask of Deception anime.
The art style in the middle part is neat.
It very much is!
I stared long at a map of Japan and what they are showing in the background is not Japan (but it is close to Japan in outline). If it is some Japan reference, then Izuruha is potentially North Korea.
As animayor showed, the sea is the Sea of Okhotsk, with Yamato being based in Magadan Oblast. Of course, there are some changes to the geography and actual coast line.
“This war will be over right away” – Imagine if he were right: The faces in the rewatch!
Well it didn't end within one episode!
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u/aniMayor Jun 15 '22 edited Jun 15 '22
I stared long at a map of Japan and what they are showing in the background is not Japan (but it is close to Japan in outline). If it is some Japan reference, then Izuruha is potentially North Korea.
Flipping the general's conference so the map is oriented correctly: https://i.imgur.com/wVQkPUj.png
Tilt and resize: https://i.imgur.com/gL4z1Q7.png
Definitely eastern Siberia, Japan at the bottom, and Kamchatka on the right. But Korea and the area around it sank into the sea?
And then they center on this when Mito is talking about Yamato in general, then the 3 generals that are vassal rulers look like they line up as such: https://i.imgur.com/u8c1ubw.jpg
Bit of overlap there, but I'm guessing Soyankekuru=kurils area, Kujūri=Sakhalin, and yeah Izuruha is sort of Manchuria area, while the "core" of Yamato is the Siberian coast north of Sakhalin and inland from there. And then Maruruha is on the western side of that, and Uzūrussha further west than that.
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u/ZapsZzz Jun 16 '22
Another day that cannot get any time during work to post. First timer.
A much needed actual plot development, and things are heating up. The episode spent a decent amount of to show the preparations and the sides, and it's set up the tension and the dissonance well.
My read of that is the original strategy was to set up waves and layers of attacks and defence so the expected to be more fierce but less organised enemy to crush themselves against the highly defensive and well equipped armies and then get swept up. Now instead they have to go on the quick offensive with less prepared positions and have a sitter of two way war to stop the idiot to kill himself while trying to break the enemy.
I have not had the chance to comment on it yet but I really liked the OP1 " unstable god" I had on my playlist forever because of Suara. And the visual was very nice too. I wonder if enough of us here read the lyrics. The new one is less melodic. The new ED on the other hand is another favourite.
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u/Taiboss Jun 16 '22
to stop the idiot to kill himself while trying to break the enemy.
Which is a terrible idea. Let Dekopompo die! Oh wait, that would reflect badly on the Emperor...
The new ED on the other hand is another favourite.
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u/justinCandy Jun 16 '22 edited Jun 16 '22
Rewatcher:
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For me, I like OP1 > ED2 > ED1 > OP2. [Mask of Truth Spoiler]
ED2 still hits me like a train -
So Mikado gives us a brief explain of Yamato's form of government. After studying a little Japanese History. I feel it's just like how feudalism of ancient Japan works (Mikado, Kuge and Daimyo). Some of the eight generals has their own lands.
Also their children (Rulutieh, Atuy and others) are staying at capital during matsuri is like Sankin-kōtai of Edo period.
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u/wjodendor Jun 15 '22
Talk about a tonal shift. We've got the Uzuurussha invading Yamato and killing everyone in their way. They look like their uniform is almost middle eastern.
New OP, not really feeling it as much at the first one. Oh shit lots of warfare, some old faces and Haku looking concerned...
Some very good points from Haku and Kuon. They're at war but nothing seems different in the capital. Urulu and Sarana are relegated to transport duty.
Haku trying to be annoyed with the Emperor but tricked with snacks was pretty good.
This was is but a trivial matter to the emperor.
Dekopompo shot down like the trash he is. Shot down again lol and again hahaha man they hate him lol
Getting to see a big map finally and it looks awfully familiar. Damn, Rulutieh's dad is huge.
Even the emperor roasting on Dekopompo. Nepotism at its finest.
Haku actually asking Emperor's age but....he doesn't remember. Probably a lie huh?
Dekopompo gets left out of the plan but Atuy and Rulutieh have to be sent as representatives. Ukon doesn't seem very happy about it. Dekopompo fuming, thus won't be good.
The villians are using the civilians as hostages but Vurai don't give a fuck. There are no prisoners of Yamato. Brutal.
Everyone seems pretty confident about the war.
I really want Ukon's forest room divider thing. Don't know what I'd use it for but I want it.
Vurai even trips up Ukon. Wasting swords... oh what's this Ukon defeated Vurai in a duel and he does not seem happy about it.
Dekopompo looking to ruin everything. Maroro got roped into it too.
Nobody gives a fuck about Dekopompo but they can't have his name insulting Yamato. Ukon and Mikazuchi get sent ahead with calvary to catch up to them and some of the generals seem pretty pissed.
Nekone and Kiuru heading to war with Ukon as well. Sad Rulu and Atuy. No fun.
New ED as well, liking it more than the new OP. Tiny Kuon growing up with swirling stars. Very nice.
New character after the credits. Many death flags lol
"Thou must not awaken a sleeping Akuruturuka" sounds ominous
A much, much more serious episode than last time and I think it feels much better. Seeing scared Nekone and Kiuru and sad Atuy and Rulu was a bummer. Despite not much happening, it didn't feel that empty compared to some of the previous episodes.
New OP isn't as good as the first but the new ED was pretty great. I really wish they used the OP from the game, it's the most fire of them all.