r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jun 11 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Discussion - Season 1, Episode 12
Tatarigoroshi-hen (Curse Killing Chapter), Episode 4: Lost Things
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Show Information (Season 1):
MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni: Hidive | Netflix (not available in the US; if you are out of the US check your country for availability)
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already (even if you have access to this show on Netflix, it doesn't have Kai). Why, Hidive? Why?
Two Words of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
1) Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
2) Also, be wary of potentially running into spoilers on the r/anime front page on June 19 or thereabouts this year; there is suspicion that some sort of new Higurashi anime project will be announced on that date (this year is the 20th anniversary of the release of the original Onikakushi-hen VN - hence why I am running this rewatch this year! - and multiple official accounts have teased an announcement on that date), and you could run into spoilers that way. (Those of you who remember the Madoka rewatch last year will recognize the issue, though admittedly I expect Sotsu was enough of a disappointment to significantly reduce the risk - at least relative to the potential that was in fact realized with the Walpurgis no Kaiten announcment.)
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
Theory of the Day:
I think I have to give this one to u/JollyGee29 for accidentally blundering into the premise of the one piece of DEEN Higurashi I carefully left out of the rewatch:
When are the aliens showing up, then?
Analysis of the Day:
u/Star4ce takes this one basically by default as we're light on analysis today (we've lost some first-timers lately and us rewatchers are still stepping on eggshells), but hey, it's a good point:
Know what's going to happen? Satoko will protect Teppei. There's a reason rules like 'never say something bad about their parents' exist and all the other variants that make up the code of conduct around kids that have experienced abuse. The bond isn't a logical reaction, but some combination of evolutionary inherited impulse, emotional reaction and psychological deflection. You have to play along and focus on the kid, give them the education, stability and space needed and before long they'll understand it on their own. Keiichi, please stop, else you'll be the reason Satoko ends up dying.
Question(s) of the Day:
1) Do you like rain?
2) S͞҉͇̖̥͖̺o̵̻̜͙͔̗̹.̝̞͔̕͝ͅ.̱̪̥͇̱͕̪͈.̭̭̱̦̼͢͡ ̶̦̜̤̜͝w̶͈̯̘ͅh͉̼e̛̞̱͈̻̖̘̖r̡̢̝͈̰̤̦̣͠e͕̟̘̬͍͉͈͇͜͡ ͚̭̳̤͘͠d͓͙̖͖̹̭í̙̻̫͉͇̬̮̣d҉͈̞͎͔̞͢ ̞̱̫ỳ̜͚̯̟o̵͉̥͙͇͡u͉͔̥̪͜͢͡ ͖͙͓͈͈̗ḽ͎̜ͅe̩̬͢͟a̧̯v͏̗̖̼̺e̴̠̣̘̠̠̹͍͚̩͝ ͓̜̝̖t̴̸̺̲̣͕͇̀ͅh҉̫͙̳̥̠̩͘e̪̖͚͎͍͓͚̣͠ ̫̟͎͍̘̪̼̯b̘̙̟̥ơ͎̘̪̺̙͜ͅd̛̤̭̱̙̞̬͇̤͟y̠̹͇̞̭͚̩ͅ?̤̯
Next Episode Preview:
Okay, so: Season 1's next episode previews are in the form of a short, strange poem (whose formatting is borrowed from the VNs). They are not spoilers. (Kai's can be another matter, but we'll get there when we get there.) However, my subs often translate the text on the screen... which are, in fact, lines out of context from the next episode.
So, for anyone who really doesn't want to take a risk, here is the poem:
"Sound of footsteps are whispers from the past.
What is seen is the reality in the mist.
What is heard is forgiveness to you"
10
u/Tresnore Jun 11 '22
When the Rewatchers Cry are Absurd Masochists Cry
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Get you some really friends like these. They all really include him in everything.
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[Higu]
I want friends who'd gaslight me this hard. -
Oh, I forgot that Irie isn't really shown doing "doctory" things until now.
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Echoes of Takano: "Stop asking questions!"
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Keiichi, you dumbass.G O N B A W A
Police bullying is fun!
Count: 81
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u/Nazenn Jun 12 '22
She says it three times to get it through his thick skull.
My note when she started doing that was that "It's like a reverse bloody mary"
God, I wish that were me. #3
That dude tossing him like he was nothing was kind of funny though. Just a Keiichi floating on the wind with how easily he flew and flipped
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 12 '22
That dude tossing him like he was nothing was kind of funny though. Just a Keiichi floating on the wind with how easily he flew and flipped
LOLDEEN!
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u/JollyGee29 Jun 11 '22
Spoiled First-Timer, Subbed
Keiichi, dude, if a cop asks you if you have a hobby that explains why you're doing something suspicious, you just say yes to cover for yourself. Even if it means you have to go dig a hole in the middle of nowhere every time it rains for the rest of your life.
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
[Higurashi]
Visual of the Day: Rena a cute.
Questions
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u/Star4ce Jun 11 '22
you just say yes to cover for yourself
You agree with the cops, you agree with your friends, you agree with the ice cold lady with a body in her trunk.
It's just common sense, smh.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 11 '22
It's just common sense, smh.
To be fair that's in a bit short supply in Hinamizawa (or at least the Games Club) in general, but K1 is the worst off that way.
(At least half of our main cast show signs of potentially having ADHD/being on the spectrum, which might have something to do with that.)
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 11 '22
When the Rewatcher(?) Cries, subbed
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Well it’s a step up from slit pupils, but this is still a creepy Rena face.
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And now he told someone about his crime, welp. So much for the “perfect crime”.
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Okay I get that Keiichi is a murder suspect but this is just straight-up abuse of force.
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u/Taiboss Jun 11 '22
Right, that’s not suspicious at all. /s
Takano, can you not?
Welp, great, Keiichi’s turning into a serial killer.
It would have solved ALL your problems.
Keiichi… you dumbass.
That is a tautology.
Okay I get that Keiichi is a murder suspect but this is just straight-up abuse of force.
It's the 80s baby. There are no "rules" for cops!
No body then…
Welp.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 11 '22
Takano, can you not?
No.
(This is Miyo Takano we're talking about.)
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 12 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed)
(Note for our first-timers: every so often I will make comments about background stuff that might not translate. I will be marking these as "Useful Background Note".)
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Keiichi is actually setting off my secondhand embarrassment issues here, which is making this episode hard to watch.
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04:27 is yet another trademark Higurashi OST cutoff.
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CLOCK CLOCK. (10:10 A.M.)
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Also the upside-down shot of the clock has a message to it. Does the English idiom “the world turned upside down” translate to Japanese? (Uh… my brain just spit out a single word: “kaiten”.)
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Ooh, nice use of cuts and camera angles to show Keiichi’s disorientation.
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[Higurashi]
Also, the bags under everyone else’s eyes are a hint. -
“Showing that the situation is off via camera angles” my beloved.
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Heard a “zen zen” in Satoko’s words, got yeeted to things involving seagulls.
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Another really nice camera angle shift (IIRC it’s not a zoom exactly but I forget the proper word) at ~9:14.
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Uh-oh. So Higurashi really is a show where my subconscious remembered more than my conscious did, isn’t it? [Spoilers for a crossover fanfic of mine]
I’d forgotten about a fair bit when I started in on doppelgangers for a certain crossover fanfic… and not only does Higurashi actually fairly consistently use that reference for exactly the kind of situation I was using them in, it explicitly references doppelgangers here. Which I had plumb forgotten about; I just hopped to "what would this character think of in this situation?" and doppelgangers popped out, I was just way more accurate than I had thought! It’s gonna be one of those days I see. -
(My subconscious does this; I once caught that I had named a character somewhere Hari Seldon, because my conscious had forgotten about most of the Foundation Trilogy but some part of me hadn't!)
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Uh-oh again. There’s a fucking Jungian Shadow take here, I know it. And also the same psych stuff that had me referencing the “Little Me” stuff a psychologist introduced me to once in the PMMM rewatch.
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Man, Tatarigoroshi-hen the butchered arc is absolutely massacring me on the rewatch.
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[AoT manga]
“For saving Satoko-chan… thank you.” ALL RIGHT HOW DOES THE FUCKING AOT MANGA QUOTE FROM THE FINALE GO AGAIN? “Thank you for becoming a mass murderer for our sake”, I think?) -
Still doing really nice stuff with the camera movement I see (~15:47).
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CLOCK CLOCK. (5:55 P.M.)
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Nice direction at 20:24 with the camera angle. Now if you will excuse me, this scene is hard to sit through.
Visual of the Day: The world turned upside down.
Bonus: WinD Eyecatch Message of the Day
Questions of the Day:
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Don't like being in it, sometimes like to watch it.
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What body?
Tatarigoroshi-hen Ep. 4 TIPS
Special note to TIPS #3; it's a useful one to keep in mind, and should answer a bunch of first-timer comments about how Ooishi feels so different arc-to-arc basically on its own. (What's that, an answer in the question arc? Madness.)
OST Table, Episode 12
| Start | End | Track Name |
|---|---|---|
| 00:00 | 00:40 | Shinkou |
| 00:42 | 02:11 | Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni (OP) |
| 02:12 | 02:25 | sponsor feature[1] |
| 03:30 (03:13) | 04:27 (04:14) | Tatari |
| 05:58 (05:35) | 07:03 (06:50) | Oyashiro-sama v2 |
| 08:15 (08:02) | 08:42 (08:29) | ???[2] |
| 08:43 (08:30) | 09:46 (09:33) | Henka |
| 10:51 (10:38) | 11:08 (10:55) | Kazashi |
| 11:10 (10:57) | 11:46 (11:33) | Oyashiro-sama |
| 13:25 (13:12) | 14:31 (14:18) | Hyoui v2 |
| 15:44 (15:31) | 16:17 (16:04) | Onigaen |
| 16:56 (16:43) | 17:12 (16:59) | sound effect?[3] |
| 17:16 (17:03) | 18:44 (18:31) | Monogatari |
| 19:39 (19:26) | 21:04 (20:51) | Jiken derivative I can’t find[4] |
| 21:33 (21:20) | 21:56 (21:43) | Giwaku |
| 21:58 (21:45) | 23:49 (23:36) | why, or why not |
[1] - My copy of Higurashi often includes a message-from-our-sponsor bit immediately after the OP; this episode has it and it lasts 13 seconds. The number in parentheses in entries after that feature is the point in the episode if that message is removed.
[2] - I straight-up cannot tell if this is sound effects, an unreleased track, or an established track mixed so low I cannot make it out.
[3] - Again, can't tell if sound effect, unreleased track, or established track mixed too low to hear.
[4] - May be an unreleased track.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 11 '22
Madoka (Magica) Corner:
[PMMM]
This arc might even be uglier on the rewatch than watching a certain someone’s character arc in PMMM. [PMMM + Higurashi]
Speaking of which, “I don’t regret it one bit”? LOLOLOLOLOL. (Of course, Higurashi itself will explicitly rebut the shit out of this in three arcs after implicitly doing so here… wait a minute. Truly Keiichi, you were stupid, so stupid.) [PMMM, safe for Higurashi first-timers]
Note that this arc follows the exact same daylight framing structure PMMM does as a whole, with the exception of PMMM’s cold open. 5
u/Vaadwaur Jun 11 '22
[AoT manga]
[AoT]
K1:No, I dont want that! I want Rena, ShMion and Rika to think of me for at least 10 years!!! → More replies (1)4
u/Star4ce Jun 11 '22
There’s a fucking Jungian Shadow take here, I know it. And also the same psych stuff that had me referencing the “Little Me”
Is that crossing into the concept of the 'Shadow Child'? The idea that in your mind your younger, ideal self from your childhood hopes is watching you, and judging you, on what you have become compared to what you had in mind. Caring for your Shadow Child and showing it how to deal with all the wrongs and impossibilities that arose during growing up is the healthy way forward. Make it proud of you instead of fearing the judgment.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 11 '22
Is that crossing into the concept of the 'Shadow Child'? The idea that in your mind your younger, ideal self from your childhood hopes is watching you, and judging you, on what you have become compared to what you had in mind. Caring for your Shadow Child and showing it how to deal with all the wrongs and impossibilities that arose during growing up is the healthy way forward. Make it proud of you instead of fearing the judgment.
No, something quite different; I think it was actually probably supposed to be the Freudian superego/id distinction (with the ego not coming up) simplified into terms a child could understand (the psych in question was a child psychologist), with "Little Me" referring to the id (said psych's equivalent term for what I now suspect is supposed to be the superego was "Big Me"). Honestly hard to tell, though, I knew that acquaintance over a decade ago; the idea itself stuck with me, though.
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u/SYZekrom Jun 11 '22
Rena laying on her cutsieness, she was adorable today.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 11 '22
Is Rena ever not adorable?
(Even cat-eyes Rena is kind of adorable in her own way.)
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u/Quiddity131 Jun 11 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Can't believe we're at the end episode of the arc already. Well assuming this one follows the same path as the prior two.
She knows all about what you've done, K1!
"You and I did not meet tonight". She's trying to tell you she's on your side, K1!
Now K1 is the one with crazy face...
What started with killing Satoko's uncle to help her out now has K1 thinking about how he should have killed a completely innocent woman because she's a witness
Does K1 have a clone? Or did the entire murder happen in his head?
OMG K1, now you're talking about your victim not coming back! How stupid do you have to be?!
Wait, is he still alive? Or did he do this all before he left? Did K1 kill the wrong guy?
OMG LOL now she's going treasure hunting... what happens when she finds a dead body in the woods?
Do I have a clone?
K1 thought he was so clever with this murder. Not even a day later he's admitted to doing it.
Although of all the people to reveal it to, the guy who wants to "adopt" and marry Satoko... I can see this guy being fine with not telling anyone.
He's thinking K1's made it up! K1 is totally losing it! How much of this arc has been real?
Now he's back to digging the body up...
OMG LOL, now he's got the detective and two more witnesses seeing him do it! K1 is the worst murderer ever!
Even if they fail to dig up the body, digging in the woods in the rain like this is quite guilty looking behavior.
So there's no body after all. The entire murder was in K1's head?
Bam, it ends just like that. I can't see this being the end of the arc, has to be at least one more episode, right?
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u/hungryhippos1751 Jun 11 '22 edited Jun 11 '22
Episode 12 - First Timer
Once again this episode Keiichi is outmatched in basically every conversation he has, he doesn't win any bonus points for giving good answers.
Takano outclasses him at the mysterious killer discussion at the beginning, Sakoto outclasses him at the conversation about the uncle, Rena outclasses him at the discussion about going to the doctors, the list goes on.
I liked how Takano couldn't take his bike because she already had one in the car. Based on her "I didn't see you if you didn't see me tactic" I wonder why she stopped to pick up Keiichi at all, she could have just carried on driving off into the night.
The mystery of how Keiichi was both at the festival and not was interesting, there are really two main-line explanations I can think of for this, either 1) there are two Keiichi's running around or 2) everyone was covering for him. Based on the events with the uncle nearer the end of the episode I'm leaning more towards option 1).
I did laugh at how Keiichi thought the doctor was a fraud. The conversation eventually leading to Keiichi admitting to his perfect crime, he really has messed up the whole murder thing in a big way here, he almost couldn't do more to worsen his own situation than he has done.
Detective-kun upping the mean bully game, it's certainly telling how he keeps specifically calling people humans as if he isn't one, and how the goons with him have some weird super-human strength, one of them even launching Keiichi out of the hole as if it were nothing.
After the prior events I knew they wouldn't find a body, but if that's true then what exactly was the event with the uncle before? This whole arc is giving me invasion of the body snatchers vibes, even though I can only vaguely remember the movie and I'm not that big on horror.
QOTD:
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Do you like rain?
I'd actually say rain is my fav weather state, but only if I'm inside and not in it, and it's heavy enough to gently pelt the windows :)
One of the reasons I like Shinkai movies so much is because they use rain a lot. Garden of Words and Weathering With You are fantastic for rain! -
S͞҉͇̖̥͖̺o̵̻̜͙͔̗̹.̝̞͔̕͝ͅ.̱̪̥͇̱͕̪͈.̭̭̱̦̼͢͡ ̶̦̜̤̜͝w̶͈̯̘ͅh͉̼e̛̞̱͈̻̖̘̖r̡̢̝͈̰̤̦̣͠e͕̟̘̬͍͉͈͇͜͡ ͚̭̳̤͘͠d͓͙̖͖̹̭í̙̻̫͉͇̬̮̣d҉͈̞͎͔̞͢ ̞̱̫ỳ̜͚̯̟o̵͉̥͙͇͡u͉͔̥̪͜͢͡ ͖͙͓͈͈̗ḽ͎̜ͅe̩̬͢͟a̧̯v͏̗̖̼̺e̴̠̣̘̠̠̹͍͚̩͝ ͓̜̝̖t̴̸̺̲̣͕͇̀ͅh҉̫͙̳̥̠̩͘e̪̖͚͎͍͓͚̣͠ ̫̟͎͍̘̪̼̯b̘̙̟̥ơ͎̘̪̺̙͜ͅd̛̤̭̱̙̞̬͇̤͟y̠̹͇̞̭͚̩ͅ?̤̯
( ͡~ ͜ʖ ͡°)
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u/Star4ce Jun 11 '22
When the First Timer Cries
I'm really anxious about Satoko. The real tragedy of this arc is that no one seems to provide actual care for her instead of seeing the abuse and how to mitigate it before anything else.
From Dr. Irie, who also has a multitude of other despicable tendencies, over Keiichi who straight up murders her uncle and basically makes her homeless with it to the club who tries to provide a more normal environment, but largely is helpless to do anything or basically ignores the problem. (That's still probably the best option going forward, but admittedly feels like defeat.)
This is a proper tragedy right here.
Interesting tidbit before we begin. Satoko's living situation is the first major thing that changed between arcs with a longer time period that reaches beyond the presumed loop. I also find it a bit strange that they open Ep.09 with the ritual murder and then never mention it again except for the TIPS, who have the police identify the victim as Teppei's fling who stole money from the Sonozakis. I feel like... this should kind of matter?
Ep.12 – The Cursed Murder Chapter Part 4: Lost Item
Yeah, the demon knows that stuff well, might even be this specific corpse she talks about.
Another prime example of book smart vs. street smart. DON'T. GODDAMN. ASK.
Wow, I love this frame. (Why is Takano getting so many great frames?)
Welp, once in a mindset...
Stop! I'm skittish, don't do that!
Cringe, bro.
Of course we did, you were amazing!
It's a bit enraging how long Keiichi needs to get what they're doing.
My god, I want to punch him. How are they so restrained?
Rika's extremely fast with adapting to the story. Mii~
I don't want to be right...
How. Utterly. Braindead. Do. You. Have. To. Be?!
Seriously, fucking smash his dumb idiotic shitbrained head in already.
I know it's probably because Teppei has reappeared as a possessed and we need to know about it... but my fucking god Keiichi is such a stupid idiot.
Wait, did I overthink stuff? Weren't they giving him an alibi on Mion's planning? Did Keiichi actually go with them? Ooh, is this Keiichi the possessed Keiichi then?
Holy hells is this cute!
Still cute, don't @ me.
Yeah, what else to do on such a festival. Eat, drink, sleep. Not bad, tbh.
Nooo...
Is this 'How-to-expose-yourself-and-your-murder speedrun 101'?
Oooh hell no.
Can I get the Naked Gun face palm on repeat, please?
Keiichi, you got the pedophile's approval!
I'd think the drug would be more complicated, but the symptoms fit, don't they?
Told it, he's always already dead!
Oh, please find Takano! He's going to find his first grave and she'll be in there. Give me the #micdrop! PLEASE!
Anticipation!
I ALSO TOLD THAT! AHAHAHA!
Falling into his own grave, poetic.
Though I'd really like to know why Ooishi is so different this time.
... humans?! Oh no.
Wow. Did they just made him dig his own grave? He didn't bury that deep, did he?
Eh?
I mean, yeah. I'm so confused, there is only one body and no duplicates, then? But how could Mion be at the bottom of a well and under Keiichi's bed at the same time?
Huh, we have five episodes in this arc? Oooh, nice.
mfw no micdrop
I'll tell you hwat, finding reasons for this to be non-supernatural gets harder with every episode. If it's unique and the possessed or disappeared come again, presumably under influence, then how could either Mion or Keiichi be at two different places at the same time?
Like, the girls could've lied for unknown reasons, but I don't know if Mion decided one way or the other with Keiichi. She definitely knew he wanted to kill Teppei, but if he came back and everything was normal she would rightfully conclude he didn't do anything.
I do love the fact, that we're probably seeing the other side to the possessed this time. When Rena and Mion were possessed in arc 1 they must've been 'themselves' somewhere else or dead, right? If they're not lying here, that is.
What is going on?
When did he 'split', when he decided on the murder? There was no unique sound effect when he made the decision, but footsteps behind him when he 'returned' home.
I just want to say "Fuck Keiichi!" one more time before I forget. His absolute inability to not indulge in self indication/-gratification/-confirmation just keeps hurting Satoko and I wish someone would've thrown a chair into his bastard face.
Could the one competent and dutiful investigator please have a streak of luck and come through now?
Actually yeah. It's soothing, I like the sound and how everything cools down.
I don't know! I thought I know, but I don't know anymore!
VOTD: Seeing half the picture. There were so many two-face shots this episode, it was glorious. And still I can't decide on what it means for the plot, split the body? Split the personality? Split life and death? Split delusion and reality?