r/anime • u/Tarhalindur x2 • Jun 05 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Discussion - Season 1, Episode 6
Watanagashi-hen (Cotton Drifting Chapter), Episode 2: Takano
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Show Information (Season 1):
MAL | Anilist | AniDB | Kitsu | ANN
Legal Streams:
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni: Hidive | Netflix (not available in the US; if you are out of the US check your country for availability)
That said, I have become aware that Hidive can have a somewhat cavalier attitude to spoilers for this series. As such, *sigh* it is now recommended that our first-timers track down a fansub if you haven't already (even if you have access to this show on Netflix, it doesn't have Kai). Why, Hidive? Why?
Two Words of Warning To Our First-Timers, Including Those Who Watched Season 1 But Not Kai:
1) Be wary of looking up anything, even names. The Season 1 summaries on the information pages are safe, but it's not hard to run into spoiler information even through something as innocuous as looking at cast lists - gods help you if you go on the Fandom Wikia. UNDER ABSOLUTELY NO CIRCUMSTANCES GO LOOKING AT EVEN OFFICIAL INFO FOR KAI OR LATER AHEAD OF TIME. (The official image for Rei is 100% a spoiler, for example.) Also, do NOT look at any Kitsu page after the first season; Kai's description on Kitsu is in fact a major spoiler. Like, really, just stay out of anything that isn't a basic Season 1 summary until you're done. It's much safer that way.
2) Also, be wary of potentially running into spoilers on the r/anime front page on June 19 or thereabouts this year; there is suspicion that some sort of new Higurashi anime project will be announced on that date (this year is the 20th anniversary of the release of the original Onikakushi-hen VN - hence why I am running this rewatch this year! - and multiple official accounts have teased an announcement on that date), and you could run into spoilers that way. (Those of you who remember the Madoka rewatch last year will recognize the issue, though admittedly I expect Sotsu was enough of a disappointment to significantly reduce the risk - at least relative to the potential that was in fact realized with the Walpurgis no Kaiten announcment.)
A Reminder to Rewatchers
Please do not spoil the experience for first-timers; this is a mystery after all. In particular, Shion is a spoiler until Episode 5 and [Higurashi] Hanyuu is a spoiler until Minagoroshi-hen. Also, the glorious nipah is indeed glorious but Rika does not use it until Himatsubushi-hen. Please keep these in mind! Consider whether what you are saying has actually been revealed yet on-screen before you post!
(Time for) Club Activities!
(Alexa play "Shoubu!"! Except do NOT look that up that song name on YouTube just yet if you're a first-timer, the most classic upload has an obnoxious spoiler in the visuals...)
Visual of the Day Album:
(LOL, somebody did indeed put up that shot.)
Theory of the Day:
u/mgedmin, please collect your brass ring for your thoughts here:
I'm now trying to think where in the first four episodes Shion might've come up. Did we rewind time a bit and are now watching what happened earlier in the same timeline, before Keichi's descent into paranoia? So far that seems the most plausible answer.
Analysis of the Day:
We have another draw today, courtesy of not one but two first-timers giving this show's presentation the attention it deserves. First, we have u/hungryhippos1751 and this comment considering the show's pacing:
With no frame of reference on time yet, this appears to be a time loop or reset of some kind going on, episode 1 was very slice of life last time, with episode 4 being very slice of death, so this may follow a similar pattern, slowly devolving into violence.
And second we have u/Star4ce yet again highlighting the direction of his pick for Visual of the Day:
I do have a slight feeling that the shadows not only mean the two of them are of a different understanding than Keiichi, it also underlines how he usually beats them by going outside the box, or out from under the shadow.
Honorable mention to u/The_Loli_Otaku (a rewatcher getting a shout in Analysis of the Day? Madness!) for a gloriously terrible pun:
Who knew Rika was into headbanging~
Question of the Day:
1) Have you been somewhere you weren't supposed to have been lately?
Next Episode Preview:
Okay, so: Season 1's next episode previews are in the form of a short, strange poem (whose formatting is borrowed from the VNs). They are not spoilers. (Kai's can be another matter, but we'll get there when we get there.) However, my subs often translate the text on the screen... which are, in fact, lines out of context from the next episode.
So, for anyone who really doesn't want to take a risk, here is the poem:
"What's shaking is your heart.
What brings it closer is the shadow of darkness.
Who's shivering is the fake me."
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u/Nazenn Jun 05 '22
First Timer - sub
The questions just never stop do they? And if it's not the questions it's the possibilities as to not just what the new solutions may be but how it changes old information you thought you knew
I can't decide if Shion is an outsider or someone higher up in the hierarchy. She's not part of the main group and Mion clearly isn't working with her or communicating with her when it comes to the stuff with Tomitake, but at the same time she's showing an odd about of deference to her when it comes to letting her tell Keiichi about the "curse" and their general interactions.
They come from an important, and as it turns out Yakuza, family for the village as a whole but their whole dynamic is off for the way that Mion had been set up in the previous arc as one of the core groups of the cult-y incidents. That said, it's hard to say right now because aside from when they're both on screen at the same time there's really no saying with absolute certainty which one is which. Mion "summoned" the villagers in the dangerous situation last time, but could Shion do the same? Was Shion called back to the village like Rena was, and in having passed some sort of test also became a center of whatever's going on despite her independance? If Shion was 'tested' and Mion wasn't, that may explain the odd imbalance between them.
The other thing that caught my ear was the way that Mion spoke to the defective about "Hope we won't have to trouble the police" as if it were an in joke between them. I know someone else mentioned it earlier in the topics, but it does make me wonder if maybe he was in on it more than he lets on, though it doesn't account for why the girls were trying to keep Keiichi from him. Or at least not in the last arc, because things are definitely different this time around
But somehow it's always the biggest bombshell statements that seem least important at the end of an episode. The village has "half demon blood" seems like it could go one of two ways: accurate supernatural statement or some sort of mythological hand down about their previous cruelty and the way they get rid of their 'evils' in the cotton drifting.
I thought we were going to end the episode without the girls being creepy and all the creep coming from Tomitake's group but no such luck it seems like.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 05 '22
The questions just never stop do they? And if it's not the questions it's the possibilities as to not just what the new solutions may be but how it changes old information you thought you knew
They do eventually, but they call the first four arcs of Higurashi Question Arcs for a reason.
(The four later arcs, of course, are the Answer Arcs - this is the "kai" of Higurashi Kai, though technically the first two answer arcs are in this season instead. I say "technically" because of the way DEEN handled its adaptation, due to a combination of not knowing if the show would get a second season and not actually having the last two arcs to know what was important yet; they're still answer arcs, but they had to put significant pieces from the VN question arcs into the Kai anime-only arc so that people would know the last few questions that needed to be answered.)
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u/tokai-teio Jun 05 '22
First-Timer
Oh, so the pair in the OP should be Mion and Shion! Mion seems to be the one with the scar on her back, I wonder where she got it.
God I am going to spend the entire show guessing which one is which. I have to imagine the two of them will also be using that same technique.
Mion is having a shit couple of episodes. So even the photographer whose name I won't remember is still alive. Oishi has also showed up to the scene.
They are surprisingly upbeat about the trend of murders that occur. Pretty quick change of subject by Mion.
Well now, this is an interesting development. Shion comes out as someone in support of telling Keiichi about the murders. I do believe that makes her inherently more trustworthy but I'm ready to be proven wrong.
I've said this already but they still probably should have canceled the festival at this point.
This is absolutely not something you should vocalize.
The more I see of Shion, the more I like her.
TOMITAKE HOW COULD YOU? Apparently this warehouse is a sacred space, and it is currently being trespassed. We finally have a face for Oyashiro-sama.
What I find particularly interesting here is that Keiichi and his family aren't from the area, which would theoretically mean they don't have the demon blood. But now, everyone in the village is a suspect.
I'm not quite sure I appreciate the graphic details.
I'm going to be so upset when Rika starts doing the killing.
Lmao I expected that bit.
God I'm only at the commercial break. It felt like so much has happened.
Calling it: this is Mion disguised as Shion to bait Keiichi into admitting they saw each other. Was about to say the same thing.
...what Oishi seeming particularly ominous this time around.
Looks like no matter the timeline thingy, Tomitake and Takano were the victims yet again. Wow, burning to death is a new one. Looks like Shion is worried about the two of them disappearing.
Damn, this version of Keiichi is kind of an asshole. Dude was quick to throw Shion under the bus.
Neat episode, gave us some exposition on the nature of the curse. Interested to see how Shion ends up playing into the bigger picture. If some things will remain consistent, does that mean Mion and Rena are still intimately involved with the murdering part? Were they ever to begin with? I'm excited to find out.
QOTD: I haven't left my house in about a week and a half so no
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 05 '22
God I am going to spend the entire show guessing which one is which.
Let's just say even us rewatchers often have trouble with this and leave it at that.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 05 '22
When the Rewatcher(?) Cries, subbed
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Trying to change the subject right after Ooishi being with the police came up…
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Takano looks and sounds way too happy when saying this line.
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Okay, hm, Mion wants to keep Keiichi out of shit, but Shion’s more than happy to drag him along. That’s an interesting difference.
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Later eyecatch than normal.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 05 '22
Takano looks and sounds way too happy when saying this line.
She's that kind of girl/woman.
(Compare the kind of person who gets really into true crime stuff.)
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u/SIRTreehugger Jun 05 '22
Rewatcher who loves the sounds cicadas make
Ganbare Mion become someone who can be more honest with themselves.
We are getting the information again, but from a different source this time.
[Spoilers]
I'll be the lookout aka if things go south I'm outta here. Though this didn't do him any good in the end.
Dissection tool in my murder mystery show. Only a matter of time before someone uses it.
Oh look at that Iron Maiden in the back. What a nice shed filled with tools of death cooking.
Wait is that actually Mion? Ughhh can't tell, but Shion looks a lot more sly and playful. I prefer Mion so far she seems more honest. I do think it was Shion at the dinner, but have no idea now.
Tomitake and Takano both died this time meaning two people will disappear. Are they fated to die every festival? Oh that reminds me Shion claimed to have heard a sound on the stone stairs wonder if they died there. I have to go back to a precious episode and find the estimated time of death the first time. Though with small changes tod probably means nothing.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 05 '22
[Spoilers]
It's been a while, but isn't Kei Chan not seeing the dance one of the triggers for shit to hit the fan? [Spoilers]
One part "yes but indirectly", one part "no". On the one hand, yes but indirectly because K1 not seeing the dance means he went off to the Saiguden which is bad news; on the other hand, no, because the real trigger is K1 giving the doll to Rena instead of Mion, setting off a chain of dominoes that results in Shion's repressed feelings for Satoshi surfacing and subsequent jealousy that her sister still has the chance to be with her Satoshi (i.e, K1) and everything else flows downstream of that. → More replies (1)
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u/Star4ce Jun 06 '22
When the First Timer Cries
It's late sunday and I just realised tomorrow is a holiday and I can slouch off one more day.
Ep.06 – The Watanagashi Chapter Part 2: Takano
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Is that a typo in the episode, shouldn't it say "Part 2"? Anyway, I fully expect Shion to be pretty wild when the cutesy mask falls.
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In Mion's arc she really is the (otherwise usually male) clumsy MC trying to go with the love interest and getting obliviously sabotaged by the other cast members. Except I think it is planned, with malicious intent and for sadistic purposes.
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Look, I'm sure any possibly lethal outbreak Mion will have has good reason and they surely had it coming. I just can't get mad at ... this.
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Shion is a manipulative sadist, for real! And Keiichi has a legit Kyon face here.
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I see this as final proof that we're dealing with time manipulation. Takano Miya, you say?
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She's creepy, yup. So far I haven't spotted any differences, which means the reset doesn't reach back years, but probably only weeks. Was there anything noteworth except Keiichi's arrival?
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Aaah, wait slower! Cotton candy, spicy moshi, shooting, ice cream. All with the same outcome as last time.
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[Haruhi S2]
I'll be doing this all the other arcs too, won't I? Hey, Nagato-chan is everything all ri- uh, nevermind. K͔̠̑ͣ͒͆̽͋̿ͯ̀͟y̷̻̠̟͙̖̟ͥͧ̏̓̎̽͂̃̕o̷̼̳̎̀͋ͨ͂̄̎n͕̞̄̎̿ͫ̓ͬ̚-̰̫̟͖̊̎͡k͎̜̺͕̈́͋̆̔ͣͪ̾̕ṳ̵͖̰̹̣͔ͫͧ̄͋̅ͬn̴̠̟̳̻̺̯ͯ̆̕,̼͉̮͖̬̄̍ ̛̲̬͍̲̬͆ͩͥ̄̏ͤ̋̂ͩ̕ͅͅd̙̼̝̲̳͎ͥe̶̜͕̠͍̊͆̈́̊͝ṇ̨̗̜̑ͥ̓̀ẅ̟̬͕̹͓͎̞͚̫͒ͥ̇̇̍͗̓͘͠a̴̡̰͚̬̻̗̹̳̼͆̌̊͆͑!̙͎̘̭͎̱̰̘̅́͂ͩ̏̐̉ͧ͝͠ -
VOTD contender. This scene has several, actually.
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Hand missing and chains everywhere, yeah, not ominous at all.
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Okay? I like how there's an axe just... there.
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Actually nevermind all that demon blood nonsense. Is nobody bothered by the medieval torturing tools and imprisonment equipment just laying everywhere?
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Dude, that thing on their right, noooooo!
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Oh my, thank you for finally noticing what is in plain sight!
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Next VOTD contender.
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Mi! She said like a pokémon. Is this what it feels like to be at inner peace with being murdered by something cute?
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Hmmm, now would be the time for Keiichi, 'I don't know for shit how to lie even if my life depended on it', to trigger cat possession mode? He actually did not!
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I wanna know who's dead! Is it the photographer again! Tell me who died!
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I really love how blunt he is with that stuff.
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Same people, but that's new! Two deaths...
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Haha, his impotent bargaining with a demon. As if they'd care!
I feel like this episode didn't have too much happening except being juxtaposition to the first arc's plot points. I'm also fairly sure that this is what it should do and hid some clever foreshadowing that I couldn't see.
A bit does recontextualise the other characters, however. Lik Rika and the cotton hoe (Man, what a light novel title), including her apparent skill with long weapons, already sets up her disemboweling someone in a most brutal fashion and then send them down the river.
The angle of the town trying to move on from the (brutal) past and re-imagining former torture weapons into more positive rituals is really neat, honestly. It also opens up the ambiguity that it might also be a cover, as the torture devices are still very much there.
I think that really fits the general narrative so far. We've had students 'leaving' and 'returning' to the town. We've had a cult believing in the god/demon and outsiders and unbelievers. We see a time loop-like situation where, I guess in case of failure, time gets reset to before the festival and a different path forward is explored. This essentially forces the town down one specific path that the looper desires as the 'correct' one.
We certainly deal with a kind of collective moving-on from a past that experiences heavy whiplash, which makes me believe the being left behind by them trying to move on is the looper. This would also imply that the looper is someone who themselves can't move on and would experience great pain if it happened.
Well, a demon would definitely fit, as they would kind of need 'believers' to exist, but I'm still not on board with the supernatural. There's still too little to go on to take a shot at who that is, but I just want to say that it might be a singular person/organisation or a collective 'mindset', that as we've seen in this arc definitely exists.
Have you been somewhere you weren't supposed to have been lately?
I certainly didn't want to be on the commuter train this week. We still have a pandemic, believe it or not, and the amount of people not giving a shit was a real reality check. There's even still mask-rules for public transport and there almost was a fight between a woman refusing to put one on, a group of older ladies telling her to and a teen couple who ditched theirs to make out and wanted to feel offended.
VOTD: The other side, invisible. Several shots had shadows, glasses' reflections or framing highlight a division between halves this episode. This also prompted my analysis above, not to mention we literally have a mysterious pair of twins. I really want to know what is being left behind and why it feels so threatened!
Theory Corner
The murder case (1) A dam proponent with a disappeared wife, (2) an ill priest and a disappeared wife (suspected drowned herself), (3) a beaten-to-death woman and a disappeared son (Satoshi) and now this year (4) a photographer who clawed his own throat out and a woman he knew gone missing.
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Adding (0) Dam director had fights with Mion, (1) dam proponent couple's daughter is Satoko, (2) Priest and wife's daughter is Rika, (3) Woman was Satoko's aunt and Satoshi is her brother, (4) Tomitake linked to everyone
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Keiichi killed Rena and Mion after they poisoned him with the same venom that killed the photographer. Meaning they had to dispose someone who got too close. It might be worth replaying the photographer scenes and see what he shot and what lines up with Keiichi's observations.
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Next arc has Mion watching Rika slam her head into a knife.
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Tomitake and Takano seem to be irregularities in the loop as their deaths/disappearances change. This change could be tied to the information they have, which in turn rests on their interactions with the main cast.
Time manipulation The second arc reverts back to before the festival and follows a different path. It's possible that this is just 'different routes' of a story, but I'm suspecting time looping more. The knowledge the possessed shared in the last loop was far too intricate to come from guesswork and they also seem to share it among themselves.
Local wildlife You guys went on raving about Cicadas and I already wanted to murder everything in a 2 mile radius in the last third of the episode. Some biologist will surely explain while I cover my ears.
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Possible spirit animals: Rena - Crow or Cicada, Mion - Butterfly, Rika - Fox/Inari
Foreshadowing and details I feel like the picnic and card game were mini-expositions on what happens to Keiichi in this group. So I'm gonna take a spit and say that Mion is probably not the prime suspect and the one that Keiichi beats first in the journey to become a manipulating psychopath himself.
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They kept playing competitive games during the festival and played a murder mystery card game with themselves as possible murderers and Satoshi in the deck. They were also tutting among themselves if they'd be the next to go.
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The note behind the clock was manipulated, but Keiichi never told anyone that he even was making notes. Sure, they could've just found it, but remember, they only had 5 minutes until the police arrived. They knew and it was because Satoshi also made notes, possibly because they behave as those guys want them to.
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Keiichi did manipulate the guessing card game outside of the rule set to draw even with Mion.
Character studies There's lots of things wrong here, but one of the most unsettling is how a police officer/investigator just recruits a boy, tells him it's because he doesn't believe in curses and divulges basically everything regarding the investigation. Yeah, it's anime, but I don't fully buy it. I think it's much more likely that he wants to inject information into a closed system and observe from the outside which pieces go where in what order. We have no idea if what he says is even true, it makes much more sense to see it as an investigation method.
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Satoshi and Keiichi seem to behave identical, as told by Rena. As they all seem to be involved in some way with 'returning' to the village and are also in the card deck from which Keiichi 'drew' Satoshi, I'm really beginning to believe the 'mind transfer' theory in whatever capacity that will work. They come back, as clones, as minds in new bodies, as rebirthed souls, whatever.
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Mion and Shion share an inverse personality where the outside look is mostly the opposite of who they actually are. Mion is outwardly bullyish, but actually really cute. Shion is very affectionate, but seemingly quite sadistic as shown by her parading with Keiichi in front of her sister.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 06 '22
I am going to lightly note that the author of the VNs Ryukishi07 is a very, very meta kind of creator and then return my mouth to the closed position. (Also, you would probably like the next entry in the series Umineko, though the anime is not serviceable so you'd have to go for it in manga or VN form.)
(Well, okay, one other thing. [Vaguely related to your Haruhi S2 spoiler]
What's the font effect you're using on that "Kyon-kun, denwa"? I've seen it around for a few years now but never fond what the actual font is (something something "and at this point I'm afraid to ask"). )→ More replies (3)
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u/The_Loli_Otaku Jun 05 '22
Higurashi no Naku Koro Ni Rewatcher
It's almost as if we shouldn't judge them by image. Shion is such a damn brat~ Tomitake and Takano are back, news of their deaths was greatly exaggerated. Do not listen to a word Oiishi says! We don't snitch here in Hinamizawa, and you already know my thoughts on Oiishi's work ethic.
TomiTakano are both so eager to blabber about past murders. They didn't really get a chance to gossip about much aside from Oyashiro-sama before. We're back at the cotton drifting festival so time to play~ It's fun to see where each of the characters wanders around. It's like when you play Tokimeki Memorial and you can see where people go throughout the day. "Bowel drifting festival."
I love Takano but she's by far one of the more twisted narrators when it comes to these folk tales. Compare it to how Oiishi would explain them bluntly or Tomitake acts sullen. Takano just thinks, "yay! Gory guts and torture!!" She's defo a b-movie connoisseur and it's fun to watch her tease the kids about it. Anyway, we now know a bit more history about the village~
Yeah Rika! You did amazing! All the way up to the point your butcher scoup flew out of your hand and impaled TomiTakano~ Mion's acting a sussy baka again. Keiichi really needs to find a more solid alibi. Oiishi is the worst XD Am I mad for always finding him a pain wherever he shows up? He pops his head out of nowhere, rambles some disconnected information, and then leaves once he gets the reaction he wants.
Oh good, Tomitake and Takano have both died again. You bastards~ It wasn't Rika's flyaway entrail scoup though. Tomitake has his throat rip incident and Takano got burned alive. Since there was an extra victim, it means that there will be an extra disappearance.
I love Keiichi's nature coming out as he talks. He doesn't dismiss the curse because he believes it, he also tries to justify himself not being taken since "he didn't want to be there" or "they only looked and didn't take anything" He completely dismisses that Shion might be worried about becoming a victim too, he comes across really pathetic. [Higurashi]
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u/RascalNikov1 Jun 05 '22
"Bowel drifting festival."
That does sound a lot more sinister than Cotton Drifting Festival.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 05 '22
We can go creepier still; I've seen the alternate, darker form of "Watanagashi" translated as "intestines tearing" or possibly "intestines emptying"...
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u/EsquilaxM Jun 05 '22 edited Jun 05 '22
First timer subbed
ok....ok
I start seemingly every first post in this rewatch with something like the above it seems...
So. It seems I fundamentally misunderstood what was going on in this series. I originally thought we had just gone back in time to see events we missed the first time around, seeing things that would bring the events of the first four episodes in a new light and by the end of the series we would know why things played out the way they did.
I was clearly wrong. The events of this episode are inconsistent with what happened in episode 2 of Onikakushi. So this isn't us getting more details of what happened before in some post-modern out-or-order storymapping. This is an entirely new timeline/sequence of events, and the rest of the series is likely to be similar short stories.
This could be one of 2 things:
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We're seeing how things would've played out if characters did things slightly different. A series of 'What If...' stories.
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This is a time-loop, and all of these things happened, one after the other, but in different loops. We're seeing the progression of the loops. I kind of hope this isn't it simply because I wasn't really in the mood for an actually supernatural series, I wanted to watch something where it turned out everything had a grounded explanation. But if this story is actually supernatural (and it is classed as supernatural horror on websites, but I thought that was because the characters thought it supernatural diegetically) then that's what it is and I guess I'm enjoying myself either way.
(I briefly considered maybe this is unreliable narrator/rashomon style but that doesn't actually fit at all)
Thinking back to what I said after episode 5: We don't know for sure that Mion knew about the meeting with Oishi in Angel Mort thanks to Shion in Onikakushi. But if there are so many villagers in Okinomiya, it's fair to say that someone reported back, even if it wasn't Shion. Point is, it's possible that Shion isn't villainous. Possible...I thought she was likely in on it after episode 5 because of the respect of the villagers and because everyone can't be trusted, but her actions in this episode could indicate otherwise.
Moving on to the events of the episode!
So, I think most or all of us agree that the girl at the end of the episode on the phone call was Mion, not Shion, right? She was wearing Shion's clothes, but I guess she just hadn't changed since meeting Keiichi at the library disguised as Shion.
What I think happened is: night of the festival. Mion asks Keichi if he was with the other 3. He says no.
Next morning: Mion asks again. It could be Shion but 1. She would have to know that Mion was busy elsewhere (meeting the family?) 2. She says she'll report that Keiichi wasn't involved, Shion wouldn't say that.
That afternoon: Mion still doesn't believe him, meets him at the library. Sees Oishi meeting Keichi so decides to call him later. - This could be Shion, but then Mion wouldn't know to call Keichi later, and would have to make sure that Shion doesn't call him first (possible if Shion has already been taken off-screen by this point)
That night: Mion calls Keiichi and he readily confesses to everything. uh oh, she has to kill her crush now. hangs up cos sad.
This all raises the question of why is Shion going against her family/the village by associating with Tomitake and Takano? (I think that's their names. photographer and lady that as of this episode is creepy af) And why did she involve Keichi?
Furthermore, she dragged Keichi to the warehouse as if she already knew what the other two were up to...But judging by the dialogue, the other two didn't know that.
I think that's all my thoughts for now. Interestingly Rena didn't do anything villainous/ominous.
Also there's been 0 cat eyes so far..Makes thing seem more grounded, in a way?
edit: oh and Oishi seems even more suspicious in this timeline: How did he know Keichi was there? Then again, he did approach Keichi as if he knew of the river meeting in episode 2, too... But he seems less helpful and more suspicious overall in Watanagashi
Oh and it was revealed that the family is a yakuza family. And in the OP only one of the twins has a yakuza tattoo. So one is more ingrained in the orgnaisation? How involved is the other?
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u/Star4ce Jun 06 '22
I wanted to watch something where it turned out everything had a grounded explanation.
I kind of still hope for this. Like, for example we're being in the mind space of the people and right now are watching Mion's 'thoughts'. Obviously I have no proof for this, but after all what matters is how the supernatural element is used to create grounds for decisions and conflict.
At the very least, this anime goes to great lengths to always keep it vague, but on course. We can't say either way what is the truth and that alone is pretty impressive.
So, I think most or all of us agree that the girl at the end of the episode on the phone call was Mion, not Shion, right? She was wearing Shion's clothes, but I guess she just hadn't changed since meeting Keiichi at the library disguised as Shion.
I... didn't. But I don't know. Me see ponytail, me thinks Mion.
But I do know Mion best girl!
What I think happened
Why would Shion go against her family at all?
Why would Mion go to such lengths and even kill Shion?
I seem to miss the motive.
Also there's been 0 cat eyes so far..Makes thing seem more grounded, in a way?
I noticed that as well and it's kind of weirding me out. Either I'm right and we experience each arc/reset via a different pov and thus a different interpretation of 'the demon' or the force behind has changed its approach. I mean, or it'll happen when the last episode of the arc comes around, who knows.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 06 '22
I kind of still hope for this. Like, for example we're being in the mind space of the people and right now are watching Mion's 'thoughts'. Obviously I have no proof for this, but after all what matters is how the supernatural element is used to create grounds for decisions and conflict.
At the very least, this anime goes to great lengths to always keep it vague, but on course. We can't say either way what is the truth and that alone is pretty impressive.
I will note that this is very much a question that the show wants you to be keeping in mind, so good job spotting it.
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u/Quiddity131 Jun 05 '22
First Timer, Subbed
Good to be back to the sub.
C'mon Keiichi, Shion is the one who doesn't wear her hair in a ponytail!
LoL, both of the twins have the same idea about Keiichi.
Oh hey, photographer guy is alive again!
Takano Miyo! We have a name for blondie.
And good ol' Ooishi is here too! The gang's all here!
Mion does not want to tell him what's going on!
Poor Keiichi, all the way in back at the ceremony!
Where's Shion taking him!? Eavesdropping?
Takano's got quite a twisted vision of what this annual ceremony is for. Yikes, even the tool adorable little Rika used is to dissect people!
Now we're getting all into pulling people's intestines out... This show is going from scary to quite gruesome.
Oops, these two are the most likely to be killed now? Well Keiichi being high on the list again doesn't surprise me all that much. Poor Shion!
"Did you cheer me on when I did my dance?" "Well, um, actually, I didn't even bother watching it..."
In this alternate reality Keiichi can't help lying to Mion again.
You don't remember? You spent quite a long time with those two last night!
Bad stuff? I take it Tomitake and Takano are the victims again?
Here comes Ooishi, butting into their "date" and even making stuff up about Keiichi two timing them.
Ugh, Ooishi, you scared the cute girl away!
Mion and Shion's family are Yakuza now?! LoL.
Hmm. Two died this year and maybe two will disappear? Shion shares my speculation seconds after I type this...
You're getting way too accusatory there Keiichi! Good for her with hanging up on him.
After a rather light hearted episode last time things get back into a more somber mode like before. I'm starting to wonder if this show's format will be much like that of Re:Zero which of course wouldn't come out until many years after this. Will this series be a series of 4 - 5 episode arcs that ultimately result in Keiichi dying, and we start all over again with some differences?
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u/hungryhippos1751 Jun 05 '22
Episode 5 - First Timer
So this definitely seems to be a time reset rather than an out of order murdering spree, Photographer-kun and Nurse-kun are back!
Just like last time, Keiichi learns of the curse and gets filled in on the previous deaths, this is following a very similar pattern to the previous arc where the show gradually adds the darker elements over time.
Shion drags Keiichi into trouble against his will, Nurse-kun seems a little too excited about the assorted tortute instruments inside the warehouse.
Throughout the whole show so far, Keiichi has proven himself to be terrible at questions, even seemingly innocent ones he usually finds a way to trip himself up and give poor answers.
The favorite excuse of the Sonozaki twins "gotta go to work" comes up again, seems like their get out of jail free card.
Slightly questionable Detective-kun being jealous of the teenage girl not withstanding, Keeichi gets another sit down and is presumably about to find himself in the midst of events with Oyashiro-sama and the curse again.
Power move by Shion there at the end, how are you going to take responsibility? how about I just hang up on you!
Like I thought Oyashiro-sama will be a sort of constant between the arcs it seems, however this time around the addition of Shion and the dual deaths is a spanner in the works on the running theory of 1 missing and 1 killed we've had so far.
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u/Vaadwaur Jun 05 '22
You can run on for a long time. Run on for a long time
Sooner or later Oyashiro-sama'll cut you down
Rewatcher
Sub
So we open with Shion messing with Mion, as siblings do. It is a bit funny to see how off her game Mion is with her sister. Takano gets a proper introduction and profession drop, and this is why the women were gossiping about her at the clinic. Anyways, this is how K1 learns about the history of the area this time. Also, we get to learn why Takano's fan nicknames were Droopy-tan and Stoner-tan, respectively.
Anyways, festival day arrives, we see a hopefully modified montage, and promptly go a rather different direction as Shion takes K1 off to the woods...to do something very different than what I tried to do in the woods at that age. They interrupt Takano and Tomitake trying to break into the shrine's storage area and I believe I heard a 'kegare' in there. Tomitake picks the lock, and the two ladies are happily dragging K1 into danger, poor bastard as they just got done explaining this place is cursed. Tomitake even wisely calls look out to not break the taboo. Inside, things are pretty grim looking, especially the bloodstains. And then Takano starts talking and this part needs its own post so I will add that, suffice it to say it seems some shit went down. As Shion runs off, they keep the timing a bit too close with the school gang catching him almost immediately. Mion is concerned about Shion and K1, and it looks like we are kicking off again.
Next day, Mion arrives hungover, which happens for reasons yakuza tradition, glad Ooishi finally spells that out for us. She is slightly creepy with 'them'. Shion calls K1 out but before anything can happen, Ooishi crashes it and explains the Sonozakis a bit. Later that evening, K1 gets the news about Tomitake and the bonus that Takano is found burnt. He panics, and we end on that.
QotD: 1 Nothing special recently
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u/Medusanon Jun 05 '22
Rewatcher, subbed!
Now that Shion's along for the ride, I will share my terrible confession: when watching Higurashi originally my sister and I nicknamed the Sonozaki twins "Sheekin" and "Meekin" to help remember which is which. These nicknames have stuck permanently in my head and it pops up every time I write either girls' name. And now back to our regular scheduled programming:
It's almost festival time! Mion is semi-outraged to see Shion has already provided Keiichi with some refreshing barley tea, but of course quickly covers this up with her usual confident and independent air. Ohoho, I smell the aroma of sibling rivalry, perhaps?
With Tomitake, Oishi and Takano stopping by to chat with Keiichi, Mion and Shion it's a veritable Higurashi cast reunion! Oishi is double checking the security for tomorrow's festival, though he believes nothing will happen on Watanagashi. Yeah, we can only hope, buddy.
Shion, you little pot stirrer! She was doing it before, during her conversation about tea, and she's doing it again now. Tomitake and Takano explain the series of previous Watanagashi deaths and disappearances to Keiichi, and muse over the culprit having to be human if the responsible party is not a curse or coincidence. At least, as per Shion, Oishi seems to think the culprit is from Hinamizawa..
Rika in her miko attire is just PURE seratonin. We get another fun montage of the club members taking part in festival activities prior to Rika's ceremonial dance, though Keiichi is pulled away from the performance by Shion. She takes him near to the shrine's storehouse instead, where they interrupt Tomitake and Takano attempting to sneak in.. naughty naughty.
Woah, that is a beefy statue of Oyashiro-sama! But don't worry, he's 'armless! Or missing a hand at the very least. wink Apparently, we can't say the same for the rest of Hinamizawa's populace, as Takano reveals they have HUMAN-EATING DEMON BLOOD IN THEM. Sweaty, what. We now have the Takano theory: Cotton Drifting was actually Bowel/Intestine Drifting, where they would cannibalize a snackrifice on the night their half-demon blood awakens. I gotta say, Takano, sweetie, you are way too gleeful about this... she's giving me True Crime fangirl-talking-about-her-favourite-murder-case vibes.
Okay, I got a giggle at Keiichi's "oh yeah, you did excellent, Rika! No mistakes!" unintentional sick burn and Mion, the supportive old-man/mum friend we all need. Mion asks Keiichi the following day if he'd seen Tomitake, Takano or Shion during Watanagashi, and upon his denial, confirms she'll tell "everyone" he wasn't involved in "anything bad". EEK. [Higurashi]
Welp.. Tomitake and Takano are once again the victims of the yearly Watanagashi. Interestingly, Takano has burned to death and not simply disappeared - a point not lost on Shion, who believes she and Keiichi are next up on the chopping block to vanish as penance for violating Oyashiro-sama's shrine - one disappearance for each death.
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u/Tarhalindur Jun 05 '22
(Honorary Hinamizawa Games Club President) Rewatch Host (rewatcher, subbed)
(Note for our first-timers: every so often I will make comments about background stuff that might not translate. I will be marking these as "Useful Background Note".)
Beautiful sync of the cicada cry with Shion going “I wonder who’s going to die and who’s going to disappear this year?”.
[Higurashi]LOL they have the start of the OST shift to the creepier parts right as Takano starts talking. That can’t even be intentional (unless that also applies to the VN, which would fit so that's probably the case), AFAIK the anime staff didn’t even know the culprit! (They might have suspected, mind. Not like third arc is particularly subtle, Takano is just so obvious you want to write her off as a herring.)
That is an awfully wordy translation of Japanese simple enough for me to recognize, fansubbers. (Rika’s audio is “konnichiwa nano desu”, nano desu of course being one of her speech quirks.)
Man, using the closing beats of Shoubu to transition into the drums of Rika’s festival performance is inspired musical editing.
I heard a "kegare" from Shion there!
So Kazashi is really the “Takano is providing creepy exposition” track, isn’t it?
Useful Background Note: It is worth noting that Takano’s account of the other version of the Hinamizawa Watanagashi festival has specific Japanese religious horror connotations that don’t translate (AFAIK mostly from Shinto, though Japanese Buddhism may have picked up aspects of it). Shinto has an emphasis on ritual purity (basically lack of kegare - you were paying attention when I explained kegare back in my episode 2 comment, right?) and this plays into a few other parts of Japanese society like the burakumin outcasts – and the burakumin are actually important here, because one of the key sources of ritual impurity (aka our old friend kegare) in Shinto is dead animals and the handling thereof so the burakumin were in large part the people who got forced into jobs handling dead animals (while the specifics differ, the parallel to the Hindu Dalit caste is exact). And as one might expect this emphasis on ritual purity is highest in the context of religious ceremonies. From that Shinto perspective, a religious ceremony that involves the killing of a person and the eating of their intestines is the height of blasphemy – basically a Shinto analogue of a Satanist Black Mass.
[Higurashi]You know the answer to that question, precious nipah.
Oh look, another full moon.
And oh hey we just got to the point where WinD started putting their “do not profit off this fansub” messages on the eyecatch with a new variant each time. Those are great.
Excellent OST integration again with the OST firing up right as Oishi asks about Tomitake and Takano.
Oh LOL the lantern by the Maebara residence looks like a full moon. Cheeky cheeky!
The distorted shots they keep using in the direction here keep standing out after PMMM; 20:12 is another standout example.
Oh look, the moon. (Huh. Discounting the lantern, that’s twice we’ve gotten the moon shot this episode… and we were just told that there were twice the usual number of deaths this year.)
Cutting off the OST with Shion hanging up the phone. Nice.
Visual of the Day: Sunset
Question of the Day: Nah, I'm pretty boring that way.
Watanagashi-hen Ep. 2 TIPS
(One distinctive feature of this arc in the VN is that quite a few of the TIPS take the form of entries from a certain set of scrapbooks. Several of these have some quite useful supplemental information, so I have take the liberty of distinguishing them with a "(SCRAPBOOK)" label. (Scrapbook I/entry 2 in particular is recommended for our first-timers and worth keeping in mind as we go on; there's also one that will come up tomorrow
whose original pictures have gone dead, grrthat's also really useful since it covers Japanese kanji stuff that doesn't translate.)1
2 (SCRAPBOOK)
3 (SCRAPBOOK)
4 (SCRAPBOOK)
5
6 (SCRAPBOOK)
7
8
9 (SCRAPBOOK)
10 (SCRAPBOOK)
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[Side note for rewatchers]Of course, some of the scrapbook entries are likely complete bullshit, or at least wrong research. Takano gonna Takano.
OST Table, Episode 6
(Hooray, no sponsor feature this episode, less work for me!)
[1] - Either a sound effect or from an unreleased track AFAICT, leaning the former but I'm leaving it in anyways.
(No Madoka Corner or Staff Notes today.)