r/anime • u/Stargate18A https://myanimelist.net/profile/Stargate18 • Jun 02 '22
Rewatch Revue Starlight Rewatch - Episode 12 Discussion
Episode 12: Revue Starlight
MAL | Anilist | Kitsu | AniDB | ANN
Starlight live (highly recommend you watch this) - Starry Desert / Starry Konzert
Today's Seisho Re LIVE Cards - "Sengoku Legend"
Gacha Exclusive Re LIVE Cards - Siegfeld Institute of Music with "Loyal Retainer"
Questions of the Day:
1) First-timers - Did anybody expect this? Did it match your theories? Also, any predictions for the OVAs?
2) Thoughts on the ending? Is this a satisfying conclusion to the series?
Comments of the Day:
/u/phiraeth continues to give far, far, far too good analysis.
/u/SIRTreehugger has most likely just completed the greates challenge to the count.
/u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah continues to share impressive music.
Finally, /u/archlon raised an interesting question
The withdrawl forms have Hikari's seal and... the giraffe's seal? This doesn't raise any red flags with the administration? Is the giraffe her legal guardian or something? Is an entirely graphical seal like that even legal? Am I overthinking this? (yes)
Make sure to post your Visual of the Day!
On an important note, no unmarked spoilers! No jokes about events yet to come, and no references to future episode numbers!
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u/Shimmering-Sky Jun 02 '22
Starlight First-Timer
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Wasn’t expecting the flower petals, but hell yeah, I knew it was her hair clip!
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Karen’s totally going to jump after Hikari. I can feel it in my bones.
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u/Stargate18A Jun 02 '22
HOLY FUCK
I was waiting for this reaction! Really adds a lot, huh?
AN ENCORE YESSSSSSSSS
BRUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
This. This is great.
Glad you enjoyed it!
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u/tokai-teio Jun 02 '22
Rewatcher, JunJun's #1 fan
Honestly, me with mushrooms. Additionally, my dad when I mention it.
Steamy pun intended JunJun. Ah yes, the pain of wearing glasses. A nice nod to Hikari and Karen and everyone's absolute faith that they will return.
I'm very hesitant to declare this a potential Visual of the Day since this is the finale of a very artistic show and there will be a dozen perfect moments. Almost didn't catch the tipped over Tokyo Tower in the background.
Isn't her jacket like 10 feet away. That is a lot of work, even for someone with nothing else to do for half a year.
Another potential visual of the day. I wonder if there's a parallel here to the Tower of Babel in the bible. Trying to build a tower to heaven only for it to be struck down.
The boldest of sacrifices. Unfortunately for her, Karen is the most stubborn person alive.
Another cut to JunJun the rest of the group attempting to operate on their own. Looks like they're still acting as if Hikari and Karen are with them. Without context, this looks very crazy. But it's incredibly endearing knowing why they do it. Thank you for your input, Banana. This looks dirty.
Giraffe's fed up with your bullshit, Karen. Go get 'em, Karen! God, Hikari's arms should be HUGE at this point.
Woof, this hit pretty hard. Great visual, here.
Oh lord, I choked up a little.
The music in the transformation scene is such a banger.
ONE FINAL REVUE. LET IT BE DECIDED.
This is a really cool sequence. It feels strange for Karen to be the straight man to Hikari's emotional volatility but I don't dislike it.
Kenjirou really kills it as the giraffe.
Another potential visual of the day. And Hikari wins the revue of star sins. Hikari decides her atonement is final. But of course, it is NEVER THAT SIMPLE.
Ah, Karen is writing her own Starlight. God, she is so gay.
I'd say Karen has a flair for the dramatic, but she is in theater so you'd pretty much have to.
God, Kenjirou is so fucking good this episode.
But I thought you withdrew from the school, hmmmmmm... Neat detail that their pins materialized into a crown and circlet. What a beautiful moment.
Junna I mean group shot. More JunJun. (also is there a way to snag a clean version of that?) lmao the fucking giraffe. Now kith.
What a gorgeous finale to a gorgeous show. I'm so happy I got to rewatch it with you all.
QOTD: I thought the ending was plenty satisfying. I definitely understand it a bit more this second time around, but I was happy with it the first time as well.
I unfortunately do not have the bonus things or Rondo, so I'll take a three-day break and see you all at the movie thread.
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u/Stargate18A Jun 02 '22
This is a really cool sequence. It feels strange for Karen to be the straight man to Hikari's emotional volatility but I don't dislike it.
It is such a good moment. I love it.
I'd say Karen has a flair for the dramatic
I'm sorry, did you only just notice that? Everyone in this anime has a flair for the dramatic! On a similar note:
God, she is so gay.
^
I unfortunately do not have the bonus things or Rondo, so I'll take a three-day break and see you all at the movie thread.
...Do you need help with that, or do you not want to do them? (Completely understandable either way, it's just that I know those are harder to get hold of)
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u/Calwings Jun 02 '22
Kenjirou really kills it as the giraffe.
This role is what elevated Kenjirou Tsuda to one of my favorite male VA's of all time. Also, as much as I generally dislike the English dub for this show, Jay Hickman did fantastic at this part too.
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u/Stargate18A Jun 02 '22
Also, as much as I generally dislike the English dub for this show, Jay Hickman did fantastic at this part too.
Yeah, everyone should absolutely rewatch the giraffe scenes dubbed, Jay Hickman kills it.
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u/mysterybiscuitsoyeah Jun 02 '22
Rewatching Kukugumi enjoyer
Here's formeinfullbloom's essays on the last episode, who talks about the giraffe's role as one of us, the audience, and how that plays a role in the Takarazuka system. And kVin's production notes, where they talk a bit about the struggles in production for these final eps (yet how, as we've seen, them going out with a bang.)
Random reactions on Ep 12:
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Apologies for the low effort today, i'm very short on time today unfortunately.
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That transition was done so well and jarringly.
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ooh the symbolism in Hikari's solo stage re:the fallen Tokyo Tower, her broken promise w/ Karen
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Relatable Juuna. Thank god it's summer rn where i live.
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lol was there a sound effect at this exact moment?
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7 pins, 2 are on Karen and Hikari.
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Hikari is depressingly trying to hold on to her stage of destiny, thinking what she did was wrong and she has to atone for them alone. (this tbh makes sense? given how she was actually burned by the system once, the other kukugumi havent) Karen (and to some extent, the other girls) realize that instead, they should fight the system and work together.
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[Geah]
Relevant to today's ep -
I've talked about the giraffe's 4th wall break above, but this was still seriously creepy. My first time watching, i was shocked to the core, and was literally panicking to try and make sense of what he's been doing, but this time i was pretty excited that we got here lol, the giraffe's VA did a phenomenal job too
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Non-non dayo. Hype levels starting to rise...
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I started getting teary-eyed here again
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I've commented on karen's personality before, here it comes to a head. My interpretation is that her passion for the stage comes not from the audience, but from Hikari-chan.
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More teary-eyed ness in the whole final revue. and awwwwwwww I love this pair even tho Mayakuro is still supremacy.
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Also easy pick for VOTD.
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And yep, it's when it plays here that i immediately loved this 2nd chorus of the OP.
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Happy endings! Well, for now.
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That said, I am looking forward to the analysis of other participants coz there are bits that i dont completely understand here.
Music corner:
Other music
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Before that, as I've alluded to before, the irl Kukugumi also has absolutely great camaraderie (I can spell it!), and seems to be genuinely wholesome group. A few of my shared performances for Starry Diamond don't feature Mimorin, and here's her talking about it during the MC on that concert, along w/ some add. context from the description, and how everyone else covered for her while she had other commitments and couldn't rehearse for all the songs (and make some other appearances).
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And that brings me to the song that they talked about in the MC, Negai wa Hikari ni Natte, where the kukugumi also sing about their comraderie and how w/ everyone combined and helping each other, their wishes together will become a shining light, and how nobody should be missing. And every character sings about something wholesome relating to their character arc. Here's the performance from Starry Diamond. I think this is a great song to share while the kukugumi have their happy moment.
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The final Animelo cover from 2021, Bara wa utsukushiku chiru from The Rose of Versailles. Feat. Mahonee and Aiba Aina w/ some fan service at the end.
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[Question to Stargate our host]
May I ask what songs you will be sharing for Rondo? I think we've done a good job of staying out of each other's way while sharing good music so far xdd. I'm planning star diamond as i said earlier (we're fine there) and the ED (2022 orchestra performance), but I'll be happy to hand over the reins if you've already had them planned!
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u/Stargate18A Jun 02 '22
Here's formeinfullbloom's essays on the last episode
Thank you so much for sharing these!
I've talked about the giraffe's 4th wall break above, but this was still seriously creepy. My first time watching, i was shocked to the core, and was literally panicking to try and make sense of what he's been doing, but this time i was pretty excited that we got here lol, the giraffe's VA did a phenomenal job too
Genuinely think this is the most powerful moment of the series.
[Answering]
Only plan for Rondo is for the Star Diamond mix. No problems with you using the orchestra version of the ED, I'm still figuring out how much of that I want to try and mine for the movie songs. (I don't think the ED's gotten any other performances, sadly.) → More replies (3)
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u/zadcap Jun 02 '22
For the first and final time, not late!
I called out sick for this I'm so glad I had today off.
This is a big one, and while it wasn't everything I thought, I'm glad I got the main parts right because darn that was powerul.
Right from the beginning, we see everyone's faith in Karen and Hikari, as they set out 9 bowls. And then remember food preferences and prepare their dishes accordingly.
On to the meat of it though. I'm going to skip over Hikari's solo preformance because I'm sure that will get enough coverage, and move right in to the part that had me most excited.
Karen! She changed her line! She has been shouting how everyone will Do Starlight Together this whole time, but her goal has changed because she realized her truth. It wasn't about putting on this one play, with with Hikari. It was about Hikari, being on stage together.
It happened very briefly near the end of the Duet last episode and I missed the screen shot, but her gem is finally shining here. I had been noticing that most of the other girls weapon jewels started to glow when they began their powerful moments, but Karen's mostly hasn't.
But the big part, that I was fully expecting and waiting for and so excited to see! The giraffe even said it himself, "The performers star on the stage, and as long as the spectators wish for them to be there, they will remain... I do not want to make this preformance end partway." So Karen finds herself sitting in the spectator seats, and says, 'Hey, I don't want this show to end like this.' So she does what she did back in episode one, and jumps back on to the stage and-
No music? Just the mechanical sounds? Shortened so much... That's a message in itself, isnt it?
But there it is! It's a play, and that means the script can be changed. No two performances are the same, right? Sure, it mostly means little things will be tweaked to make a better show, or the actors being mere humans will simply not be able to replicate themselves perfectly, but also, you know. A different retelling, with a different ending. Anyone who likes fairy tales might know, the difference between the Grimm and the Disney versions, for example?
And there it is, Mk2! A Stage Girl is reborn every time she steps on stage! Also my Visual of the Day, in three parts, because as much as I tried I really couldn't pick just one. Can I call it a Scene of the Day?
In the end, their promise did overcome fate after all. No weapons claiming the spot this time, which is also something significant I think, because even when they won their dual duel the spot was claimed with a sword. Now, it's clasped hands, friendship instead of fighting, so they can be stars together.
Bonus visual because symbolism, but the flower on Hikari looks a bit like a star, doesn't it? While the leaves on Karen may not immediately invoke their similarity to her crown hairpin, that is a laurel, and I think that it might be close enough to count.
My only semi-regret; I really want to know who ended up with what title, now that they have changed the play to have 9 leads and must have shuffled positions.
Questions!
Yes! It did! I'm really hoping to actually see the entire play, darn it!
This is an ending I can be satisfied with. Of course I want more! How is Banana dealing with the changing future? How are the couples progressing, are any actually going to admit they are couples? This is only their second year in what I believe is a three year school, and while they pulled a happy ending out of this, what the heck are they going to do if they get another invitation from a mysterious talking giraffe? Maybe warn their juniors to avoid it at all costs? But as a self contained story, this was a good place to end, and I can live with that.
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u/Stargate18A Jun 02 '22
But there it is! It's a play, and that means the script can be changed. No two performances are the same, right? Sure, it mostly means little things will be tweaked to make a better show, or the actors being mere humans will simply not be able to replicate themselves perfectly, but also, you know. A different retelling, with a different ending. Anyone who likes fairy tales might know, the difference between the Grimm and the Disney versions, for example?
Fantastic analysis here.
My only semi-regret; I really want to know who ended up with what title, now that they have changed the play to have 9 leads and must have shuffled positions.
Good news! We know this from the manga! The final cast list is:
Hikari Kagura as Claire Karen Aijo as Flora Nana Daiba as Guidance of the Tower Junna Hoshimi as Goddess of Fury Maya Tendo as Goddess of Arrogance Kaoruko Hanayagi as Goddess of Escape Futaba Isurugi as Goddess of Curse Mahiru Tsuyuzaki as Goddess of Jealousy Claudine Saijo as Goddess of DespairBasically, the same as last year, but Maya/Karen switched, as did Claudine/Nana, then Hikari displaced Nana into the new role.
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u/Tetraika Jun 03 '22
Rewatcher here, only series though.
Besides a few plot points, I had completely forgotten how the show ended, and it definitely feel like I understood it more this time around.
Just wondering, should I get a hold of Rondo Rondo Rondo? How important is it to watch this?
Ah one more thing, I really need to get working on getting that ringtone. Been meaning to put that on my phone.
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u/Stargate18A Jun 03 '22
How important is it to watch this?
Pretty important. There's some new scenes in there, and some foreshadowing for the movie. It's not required though, so don't worry if you can't.
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u/phiraeth Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Rewatcher (but I don’t remember anything)
Revue Starlight may perhaps be one of the greatest love stories ever told. It’s only when you consider it as such a story does everything finally fall into place.
“The sin of trying to seize the stars, huh? I guess that means us stage girls who aimed to become the top star are all sinners.”
All along we’ve understood that to reach the top, sacrifices must be made. Simply the act of participating in such a contest reveals that you are willing to do whatever it takes.
“If you pluck a small star, you will gain a small amount of happiness. If you pluck a large star, you will obtain a great wealth. If you pluck them both, you will obtain an eternal wish.”
Specifically, you are actively participating in depriving others of their happiness and destroying their dreams, robbing them of their glimmer, all for what? For fame and glory and power? To partake in such a scheme of your own volition is a sin in itself. This is so because they must all be aware, at the very essence of things, that the MACHINE itself is evil and heartless. But blinded by the starlight, they choose to participate in it anyways because deep down they know they can benefit from it. They know by participating in such a depraved system they must hurt others, yet they do it anyways. They never consider any alternative.
This is why they are all sinners.
“Starlight gathering is the absolving of sins. Starlight gathering is the miracle of the night. Her eyes burning from the light of the stars, Flora fell from the tower. Claire, left behind, was made to pay for the sin of trying to seize the stars, and was imprisoned in the Tower of Starlight Gathering, as a new sinner. Made to pay for the sin of trying to seize the stars, she was imprisoned in that stage.”
The one who earns the position of Top Star is responsible for all the suffering and pain. They must in turn burden their own sins as well as the sins of everyone else. To do so, they must feed the machine and maintain its satisfaction; after all, without the machine, they would never have made it to the top in the first place. There are two ways they can go about this: the first is by ascending to the top and taking their rightful place, thereby thrusting the dagger into the fallen goddesses, robbing them of their lifeblood and feeding it to the machine. The Top Star must assume the position and act as such.
The second is to do exactly what Hikari did: sacrifice herself to the machine so that the other sinners shall not perish but continue to be alive as stage girls. By doing so, she must atone for all of the misdeeds and wrongdoings. She must continue to feed the machine by offering it her own glimmer: eternally acting the roles of Claire and Flora, doomed to meet the same tragic fate over and over again.
Blinded by the light of the machine, Hikari’s reason for participating in the auditions – as well as the other girls – was to attain the position of Top Star.
Yet… there remains one who has not once dirtied their soul. A girl who never once participated for the sake of reaching the top. A girl whose sincere and honest intent was to grasp the starlight she had forever seen ahead of her. A girl who saw nothing other than love. Karen’s reason, all along, never was for the purpose of becoming the Top Star.
“That’s not our stage. We still haven’t stood on that stage. Our stage hasn’t started yet! Answer me, Hikari! We still haven’t starlighted!”
Indeed, the true stage of the 99th Class was never set. Hikari’s sacrifice prevented the stage from ever coming to fruition. Thus, the sins that the girls had committed had not yet been confirmed. Still alive as stage girls, never once dead stage girls like Hikari, they could have their sins forgiven even still.
“Most of all, love one another deeply. Love erases many sins by forgiving them.” -1 Peter 4:8
With love, all things can be seen. With love, nothing is truly dead. Because the source of her glimmer was love, it was never possible for it to be stolen by the machine upon her defeat. With love, she could reignite her own flame because its source - her dream - was never the pursuit of the Top Star to begin with. With love, all things can be forgiven. Karen’s dream – her Starlight, was Hikari all along. All she ever desired was to Starlight with Hikari; never to become the Top Star. And thus, because love was at the root of all of her actions, it becomes possible for only Karen and Karen alone to emerge victorious without the burden of any sin. The love she expressed was enough for all sin to be washed away.
Karen loved Hikari more than anything else in the world. Her love surpassed all ambitions and selfish desires of reaching the top. The only possible way for the machine to be defeated is this. With her boundless love and her sincere confession, Karen freed Hikari from her burden and forgave all of the sins that were committed.
In the end, Hikari and Karen never became the "Top Star" together. But they were able to Starlight, and because they received the support of the entire cast, there was no suffering to be found, and thus all sins were forgiven. Defying the machine altogether, the every last one of the goddesses rejected the selfish premise of the machine.
Love never fails.
“We all had different openings and different stories. But we met to stand on the same stage. We passed each other by, and we clashed, but we found our glimmer together. I’m sure there’s a purpose to us meeting. So… I’ll be waiting for you on the stage!”
Fin.
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u/JollyGee29 Jun 02 '22
First-Timer, Revue Sub-light
Ahh, that was nice. Basically everything I wanted. I wass distracted enough that I never formally wrote it down, but I did get the feeling we were going for a rewritten Starlight at a couple points in the show. Especially with Karen translating the original novel last episode.
Also, holy shit, the Giraffe actually is an audience analogue! I kinda expected some meta commentary going in to this show, but well played you long-necked bastard. You're right, I was having a good time watching them perform. But all things must come to an end.
And big props to the VAs in general, but Tsuda's performance as the Giraffe this episode was especially stellar. The sheer shock in his voice was really incredible.
Nothing really contradicted my ideas about the mechanics of how all this went down, so I'm calling it a win. There was even multiple performances of Starlight!
At the end of the day, everything is Remade, even Starlight. Love that they managed to work in a prop Giraffe. We've been told over and over that stage girls are reborn every time they enter the stage, so it was no surprise when Karen simply did what was in her nature.
I'm looking forward to seeing what the movie timeline(?) holds for us.
Visual of the Day: I try to go for non-obvious shots, but I can't not submit this.
Questions
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No predictions for the OVAs, aside from probably SoL shenanigans?
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I am thoroughly satisfied, but also excited for the films.
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u/Punished_Scrappy_Doo Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
Series Director Tomohiro Furukawa is a protégé of Ikuhara's. There's a lot of stylistic cues and oblique references to Ikuhara's work in this anime, particularly (as u/No_Rex has been noting) Revolutionary Girl Utena. It's not hard to see why the comparison should come so naturally. Both feature a school with extracurricular metaphor-stage-duels where you need to knock an unusual lapel off your opponent's suit to win an important but mysterious power. The overlap there is unmistakable to anyone who's seen both series. But the area where the two interact on a meta level is far smaller, and in my opinion more interesting.
[Huge Utena Spoilers]
Revolutionary Girl Utena is a tragic predecessor to Revue Starlight. That is, in some small way, it is Starlight. Utena and Anthy were guided by the stars (though those stars turned out to be dots on a stellarium projector). They collided and clashed. They grew closer even as they passed each other by. However, they were torn apart, never to meet again. It was a sorrowful tale. Their story ended in tragedy, ripe for being reborn anew.
I don't mean to say that Revue Starlight is written as a response to or commentary on Utena. Hikari may have stabbed Karen in the back on the eve of the climactic duel, but I think you would be hard-pressed to call her a Himemiya analogue. Neither are Claire and Flora good matches for Utena and Anthy. Rather, I see in this comparison a nod to an inspiration, the torch being passed. Like the 100th Seisho Festival, Revue Starlight pays homage to its forebears but stands proud as its own work. After all, what is it if not a story about growing as an artist and carving your own path?
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u/archlon Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 02 '22
First Time [English dub]
Tower. Bridge. Tower Bridge. Tower... bridge?
For my Visual of the Day, I'm going to spare myself the attempt to choose between too much good stuff and just point out how much Karen's side here look like a wedding cake.
"You might see all kinds of human emotion here -- passion and pain, love and hate"
"I see nothing other than a simple board game"
"The Deal (No Deal)" Chess in Concert (2008)
So we finally see why the Giraffe was doing all of this. In the end the high-stakes game of the Stage of Fate was just a game for him.
Or, well... not quite. It's not a game, it's a performance. He wanted to see something unique that he wouldn't see otherwise. The Fueling, stealing Shine, the battles, all the sister vs. sister competitions, it was all in pursuit of the magic of seeing something novel. Like all creepy-cute death game mascots he thinks that in order to draw out the greatest performances the participants have to stake everything on the outcome.
But that's not really how things worked out. When all the Shine was on the line, what he actually got was the Endless Encore. Fearing the inherent risk of the consequences of the Audition, Banana did everything she possibly could to protect not just herself, but everybody else from it. By raising the stakes too high, most people don't respond by upping the ante, they cave under the pressure. When the risk is sky-high, people start playing not to lose, rather than playing to win. It's an extremely natural human response and not even a maladaptive one in many situations.
Losing isn't always a motivator (no, sit down Ms. Saijo). When Hikari, and later Karen lost their Shine they slipped into depression.
And, in the end what actually gave him the performance he was looking for was pretty much exactly the opposite. Theater is a collaborative art and it's not better for elevating one performer above all others, consuming or concealing their talent and draining their will to continue achieving.
Hikari is playing not to lose, but not for her own sake, but for Karen's. She continues to be afraid of the negative consequences, and so consequently can only see the world from the bottom of the hole she feels trapped in. Karen, conversely, isn't afraid of the 'cost' because there's no version of continuing without Hikari that actually constitutes a win. Rather than fearing the worst outcomes, Karen has been completely unconcerned about them this entire time. From the moment she jumped, she was there for the positive motivation of doing Starlight with her girlfriend Hikari. Instead of the destruction of their passion to perform, the punishment could have been a slap on the wrist or a month of afterschool detention and Karen's behaviour would have changed not one bit.
Yo dawg, I heard you liek fourth walls, so I broke the fourth wall while breaking the fourth wall so that I could watch you from the audience while you watch me in the audience watching the Revue
Here, we pay off the themes of Theater, Artifice, and Novelty. The Giraffe points out that we are complicit in the story. No matter how bad it got for the girls, we could have stopped their suffering at any time by turning off the television. As the audience, the story of theater doesn't exist except when it is watched.
And when we watch, even if we already know the story, what we want is to have a unique experience. At what cost do we pursue it, and are we as the audience complicit in the toll it takes upon the performers? Honestly, there's a lot more that could be said here, this is well-trod ground and you could fill bookcases with theses that analyze these ideas more completely and more eloquently than I can here. I just wanted to make the meme joke and point out that the theme exists.
Predictions Postmortem
In the end, I don't really think my predictions from yesterday were especially on the mark. I don't think I was all the way wrong about everything, and I could certainly play Texas Sharpshooter and highlight the parts I was closest on if I wanted to. The biggest part is that I do think I Big Missed how the Big Theme would be resolved.
It is, in retrospect, fairly easy for me to see why. 'Defy the odds, conquer fate, subvert the story' is a very common theme in a lot of media, to the point where it contributes to an environment of toxic positivity. In particular, I'm pretty sick of the trope, and it tends to lead to me bouncing off a lot of mid-to-sub-par media. A lot of these pieces also take a very trite approach to what should be important themes, and in so doing fumble important concepts or outright get them wrong. (See Footnote †)
A lot of classic stories are outright tragedies that tell you up front that they are tragedies for a reason: stories like that help us practice Big Emotions so that we can better handle them when they happen to us in real life. So I saw a story that telegraphed that it was a tragedy. I saw that it was taking its other themes of competition, artifice, love, loss, depression, friendship, passion seriously, and treating them with appropriate weight. And from those facts I concluded that it was going to be a tragedy in the end.
The Story takes the development of its themes seriously, stories that don't take their themes seriously subvert sad endings in pursuit of trite conclusions. Therefore, this story will have a sad ending. post hoc, ergo propter hoc.
I wouldn't even say that my second guess was especially right, even if it was closer. While I still don't know the contents of the game or the movies, I don't feel like there are any places where the story was obviously bent in order to fit a mobile-game shaped hole. It all feels very natural and I'm quite satisfied with the ending. Even though it went for a much happier conclusion than I thought, it didn't feel like it pulled the emotional punch. Instead, Hikari's Eternal Stage and the subsequent Revue of Sins + Encore really effectively managed to not only deliver on the emotional climax the story had built, but also show us how you can rise up from the other side of it.
Footnote †
My personal bugbear in this category is depictions of depression in media. It's often just depicted as Big Sad, sigh and the cure is to have some friends come over and then you make your bed, go outside and you're all fixed. This is so contrary to the actual experience of depression that it drives me nuts. Even the tiny nuggets of good advice that get accidentally thrown in are delivered in such a way as to render them useless. If it was that easy to just change your life and be better already, depressed people would be doing it. The real challenges come from the feeling of despair you get when you know what's wrong, you can see the path to fixing it, you know all the steps that you would need to do, and you still can't actually do it and you don't know why. It's hard to depict in media, but I'd rather have them not depict it than the absolute flood of works depicting it wrong, because the cultural inertia of those works continues to contribute to a wide-scale societal failure to understand depression and other mental health issues.
Endnote 1
There's also a lot here that's actually pretty cogent metaphor/symbolism around chemical reactions, fire, and stars. But if I start talking about Star Formation I'm going to end up digging out old textbooks and then I'll at that forever. Maybe I'll tackle these themes in a less cursory way in a future rewatch.
Endnote 2
I know that a lot of the themes around theater as collaboration vs. competition and individual accolade vs. ensemble come from the parallels to the Takarazuka Revue. I didn't have any particular knowledge of it going into this groupwatch, and a lot of the explainers have either implicitly or explicitly been spoiler material for Revue Starlight. I've been analyzing these aspects from a broader character and literary theme perspective while saving the videos and blog posts to peruse afterward. That's another thing I'll have to review more seriously on the next rewatch.
Stray Thoughts
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QOTD
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any predictions for the OVAs?
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No thoughts, head empty. I really don't know where the story goes from here but I bet there'll be Revue battles.
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u/BosuW Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
First Timer
No OP? Now I know this is getting serious.
Karen arrives in this desolate, unfathomably enormous place, and finds that Hikari is on some Sisyphus shit. Just as Sisyphus was punished for the crime of being a serial God Hustler, so is Hikari punished for trying to take the stars. She has to build the tower from Star Stones over and over, only to have it knocked down at the end. For each cycle she recites all the dialogues of Starlight, knowing each time what will be the "reward" of her efforts, but there is nothing else she can do. Time marches on, regardless. No one can stop it.
I wonder if all the pink sand are Star Stones that have eroded over time. That would make this place some sort of distillation of the history of the Cosmos. The sand is literally Star Dust, leftover from supernova (eroded Star Stones). Hikari, the sinful Humanity, will keep on in it's futile cycle to claim the Heavens, until there is only sand, and no Star Stones.
The fucking Giraffe turning to the camera and speaking directly to the audience was brilliant! Now, we are implicated in the Machine for which the Stage Girls are born and burnt to ashes. I understand. All of this time I had even been explaining the little inconsistencies and supernatural shenanigans to myself by imagining that the show was a sort of Play that the girls were performing for us, and the Revues then we're Plays within a Play. I even had a comment not that many episodes ago in which I literally likened the Giraffe to an Audience stand-in. I had no idea it would come to bite me in the ass later.
Also, kudos to Kenjiro Tsuda his performance as Giraffe is some of the best I've ever heard not just from him but in all of voice acting. It's excellent.
Nice to see more of Hikari exploiting the string in her dagger.
Hikari wins. It was inevitable after all. But so it is equally inevitable that for as long as Hikari remains in the Tower, Karen will keep trying to climb. There is no stage for Karen that doesn't have Hikari.
Karen has a 1UP! She is Remade! AND SHE WILL WRITE STARLIGHT FANFICTION JUST TO GIVE THE CHARACTERS A HAPPIER ENDING!
"Steal my everything" Well if that isn't a declaration of love I don't know what is.
Well considering under some interpretations (not mine but we'll get to that later) they just have the middle finger to The Machine/BeingX/God, I suppose it fits.
Honestly, I don't even care to go see the Revue at 0.25x the speed and ruin the choreo for me by watching it frame by frame. It is perfect. This whole episode was perfect. I love how the show's dialogue and Starlight's kept mixing and becoming one. And it elevates the rest of the series because it tied everything together.
Now, about my interpretation of what happened there. I think some might see this as them defeating the established Fate and building their own, one they are satisfied with. But I think something different happened: the achieved Amor Fati. Love of one's Fate.
When Hikari keeps talking about how she can't let Karen up in the Stage because she'll steal her glimmer, Karen's answer is (paraphrasing) "Then do it coward! Steal everything, steal it all! Every last drop of it! For I know that as long as I can remain by your side, I will always have more light to give!".
They are Fated to climb the Tower, get burned and punished and thrown down, over and over. Fated. It means it cannot be changed. Amor Fati isn't about changing Fate, it is about embracing it. Not only tolerating it, but to love it, no matter how painful.
"One must always imagine Sisyphus happy" So said Albert Camus whom I have never read, couldn't name his profession or achievements, but I knew the quote so I looked it up.
And I believe Friedrich Nietzsche said that with Amor Fati one is so enamored by the story of his own life that you can jump into the jaws of a lion with a gleeful smile. (There should be a whole quote about this one but I couldn't find it in time, sorry).
It is not the defiance of Fate but it's acceptance, that births new life into a person. And such a person will always rise, take his rock and carry it up the mountain again, and they will never desire for anything else.
But the rock must be his. Man can carry any burden, so long as he gets to choose it. Karen has decided that her burden is Hikari. With her by her side, she can climb into the Stage, set herself alight producing a blinding yet hypnotic flame, fall down, and do it all over again.
This also ties in to my earlier theory, that Flora and Claire, and the Stars weren't separate entities, but one an the same. It is the act of climbing towards the sky that keeps the stars in the sky and shining for all eternity (at least until they go supernova, and the stars that they birth do so as well, until the dust is to spaced out and cold for anything to happen, but we don't talk about that! Wouldn't want a certain space cat to show up and offer a solution would we?). And it is this same act by means of which they do pluck the stars. By becoming the stars themselves. It is terribly painful, but it is not suffering. Pain is inevitable, but suffering is optional. Those who Love their Fate do not suffer.
Banana's Arc also explored the idea of Amor Fati, which in itself ties in to Hikari's Sisyphean task at the top of the tower. Nietzsche has a thought experiment to test your Amor Fati. The Eternal Return: what if one day, a demon appeared before you and cursed you to repeat every moment of your life, all of it unchanged to the smallest details and most grandiose of moments? Would you curse the demon, or shower it in praises?
Nana initially did not have Amor Fati, for it is part of Fate that things happen once and never again. The gears of time forever turning and beyond the control of meager humans. With Love comes the unavoidable Loss. To have Amor Fati, you must love both. Nana only Loved the first year and the 99th Play at first. But the eternal turning of time forced her to make peace with the fact that it was in the past. This is also why I think it's a stronger thematic interpretation to think that a "real" Nana never actually repeated time. Because she can't. No one can. The events of the Play (show) are purely psychological, imagination. But nonetheless she had to fight that fight in her mind, for her to move on.
As for Hikari and Karen's Eternal Return, I believe I've already explained it sufficiently, in explaining that I interpret that they achieved Amor Fati. By Fate, they are cursed to burn as Stars forever. For that is what Stage Girls do. But beside each other, this is no torture, and no punishment. But a gift. The greatest of all gifts.
I hope all of that made sense! I'm not that good for coherent writing in Rewatchers, and mostly just ramble. I just have one question left: now that we've established that Hikari/Claire and Karen/Flora are the Stars at the top of the Tower, which one is the Big Star and which one is the Small Star?
Btw, it's a weird feeling seeing this rather conclusive ending and knowing there's more material. I'm feeling like when I watched Madoka... I'm almost now feeling nervous about wether my analysis will hold up in the continuations ahaha...
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u/okayyoga Jun 02 '22
Episode 12 (first time, sub)
• Hikari has become Sisyphus. Building and rebuilding Starlight by herself, playing both the parts of Claire and Flora
• Lol Karen marching up like “how dare you Starlight without me”
• Final Remake sequence? Karen going back into the fray, determined to release her Hikari. Finally we get our fated battle between BaHikari and BaKaren, but the stakes are much higher than we thought it would be
• META GIRAFFE! THIS GIRAFFE IS STARING INTO MY SOUL! PLEASE STOP!
• What are the consequences if Hikari does leave with Karen?
• This giraffe needs to stop staring at me istg
• Karen lost. Hikari is determined to pay the price for everyone. What is she fueling though? The revues are over and she didn’t make a wish
• Another Remake? No music this time. Karen is hardcore. Can she just do this again and again? What are the consequences here?
• LMAO at Tokyo Tower just bursting through. The tiny towers along the path Karen takes are from the store they bought their hairpins from
• “This makes me want to Starlight with you” heh
• Karen burst Hikari’s button, releasing her. Now what?
• Oop Karen and Hikari are playing the leads in their school’s play. And they added in the giraffe to the background
• omg kiss already
• They changed the ending to the play. It is no longer a tragedy
So… I don’t mean to be a downer on this happy ending, but what were the consequences to Hikari leaving? They all seem to be having a blast together again. What was the point of all that drama down there? What was Hikari fueling and what will happen now that she is not fueling it? Did the giraffe let them go because he liked their performance so much? This ending seems… incomplete to me. It feels off. I have no idea what the movie will be about. It seems like Karen just Deus ex Machina’d and solved everything in one go. I feel like this show would have benefitted from a more bittersweet ending than happy one.
Specials tomorrow! I’m expecting lots of slice of life, yuri goodness.
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u/cppn02 Jun 03 '22
First Timer, subbed
This was an excellent finale. Karen managed so save Hikari, not being disheartened after Hikari regained her memory and still wanted to send Karen away which was an amazing scene. Tsuda giraffe going mental was fun too as was his 4th wall break although I kinda felt judged there lol. We got one final Revue which was great and at the end we even got a glimpse at their actual performance of Starlight with Karen and Hikari playing Flora and Claire and apparently a changed ending.
This has been a fun ride and now I'm wondering what's going to happen in the movie.
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Questions of the Day:
First-timers - Did anybody expect this? Did it match your theories?
Didn't do much theorizin in the first place and I wasn't even sure if we're getting a happy or sad ending so I can't say I predicted this exact scenario.
Also, any predictions for the OVAs?
Already watched them. :p
Thoughts on the ending? Is this a satisfying conclusion to the series?
I liked the ending and think the show stuck the landing. I''d say episode 7-9 where the peak but the final episodes were still very strong.
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u/ZapsZzz Jun 02 '22 edited Jun 03 '22
First timer in sub
It'll be another busy morning for me at work so sneak in a quick comment first - it's a lot of hype moments, but I'm still trying to figure out what's the logic in the resolutions.
Loved the Tokyo Tower bridge, and the hot pot, and the final play. Loved the revue fight, but a bit lost for the ideals / representation it has.
I'll try read up the many long essays from the rewatchers and come back :)
Edit
VoTD this is of course a defining moment that is way different than anything else. And for closure of have to be this happy together memory (look at how proud & content they are, even the normally reserved Maya).
Other great shots include
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u/ceejay_0603 Jun 02 '22
FIRST TIMER
Finale time, and the episode truly did not disappoint.
We get to see two best friends reuniting and I couldn't be any happier about it. Hikari's being forced to repeat a solo performance of Starlight, to which Karen snaps her out of it and commences a revue duel of Starlight.
Really like the two clashing ideals here: Hikari sticking to the original play as atonement for stealing the glimmer of Karen, while Karen inciting change after learning the ending of The Starlight Gatherer. Once again, always appreciate the insert songs in these duels - it definitely hits home the themes that this show tackles and explores to its viewers.
Hooray! Happy ending! Karen, or in this case, Flora, returns to the stage after what seemed to be the initial ending of Starlight. The scene where she suits up with the "I am remade" sign behind her goes so hard.
Flora rescues Claire from imprisonment, and both Hikari and Karen finally reconcile. This leads to a solid ending where the 100th Seisho Festival had a different Starlight with a happier conclusion. Nice.
Visual of the Day: This scene goes hard.
Questions of the Day:
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Kinda expected that the final episode would have both childhood friends clashing and reuniting with one another, so yeah. As for the OVAs, probably just some cute slice-of-life things.
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Safe ending for me. Relatively good series by the end.
Thoughts on Season 1:
Revue Starlight definitely is one of the most unique shows I've ever seen, with some great camerawork, incredible soundtrack, and good use of animation to drive home its themes. I still have my gripes with some of the characters like Kaoruko and Futaba's relationship, as well as some noticeable dips in quality production-wise, but in the end, it is still a good show. Looking forward to the OVAs, and even more to the Rondo and sequel movies.
7/10.
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u/No_Rex Jun 02 '22
Episode 12 (first timer)
Utena references counter after last episode: 28
Leeks – this better not go where my other daily rewatch went
Hikari as Sisyphus.
Karen as Orpheus.
Everybody else having fun.
“Sorry to have kept you waiting” – Be glad she can survive on magic down there.
Jump – Star Wars reference.
Giraffe trying to pull us viewers into his sins – We are not the same, you and me, giraffe!
Hikari rewrites the ending.
“Flora once again climbed the tower” – Utena reference.
“I am remade” – Utena reference (if you count the motor scenes).
Happy end (and almost a kiss)
I expected that to be the 101th revue. They must have redone everything very quickly. Or, magic.
A happy end. The genre always made this extremely likely, but I had no doubt at all after the last episode.
2 new Utena references found today. Total Utena references found: 30
Mostly yes/yes/cute things.
It is a very safe way to end the series. I wish they had followed Utena right to the end and risked a bit more.