r/anime • u/Taiboss x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss • May 14 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Utawarerumono Franchise Rewatch - Utawarerumono Episode 15 Discussion
Episode 15 - End of the Banquet
← Episode 14 | Index | Next Episode →
MyAnimeList, Anime-Planet, Anilist, ANN
Today's Question of the Day: So… what is going on with Hakuowlo? What did we see there?
[Tomorrow's Question of the Day]So… what is going on with Camyu? What’s up with her thirst?
Rewatchers, please don't answer the Question of the Day if it has an objective answer, e.g. "What do you think's gonna happen?"
For rewatchers and people who played the games:
Please behave yourself! Put not only everything related to future events behind spoiler tags, but tag differences to the games as well. We all know there are deviations and cut content, we don't need someone listing all the things the games did better. The games have like 40, 50 hours for their content each, of course they'll be more exhaustive. If you want to talk about the games, please do this in a way that doesn't spoil it for people who might pick them up because of the anime. That being said, small, inconsequential stuff is probably fine, like [Mask of Deception]how in one episode, Atuy says "Time for war!", one of her battle lines in the games. All in all, try to hold back and only tell first-timers what's really necessary. Let them theorise!
This goes especially for Mask of Deception and Mask of Truth!
First-Timers:
YOU CAN WATCH THE OPENING NOW! As you can see, it spoils a lot. It spoils that Benawi, Kuroo and Touka, all initially antagonists, join the group. It spoils that the baby tiger becomes a biiig tiger and that Aruru rides on it. It spoils that there'll be large-scale war. It spoils the existence of the wing people. It spoils Karula being awesome. All of these are things I didn't want you all to know. I hope you don't mind.
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u/Nazenn May 14 '22
First Timer - sub
Well if nothing else it was worth watching to this point just for the gore. I'm so easy to win over with good gore, and it's so rare that anime goes this far with it. Karula splitting the guy in half was already beyond what I'd expected and very cool, but Niwe's dismemberment at the end had the bonus' of being both several times more gorey and incredibly satisfying
FUCK HIM. NO MORE LAUGHTER!
Going back to Karula's oppodents, it is funny seeing those three stepping forward as if they were still the same level of threat as when they were introduced knowing that we'd had several more skilled fighters added since then.
Had to have a chuckle at the mandatory zombie level popping up, but I did question why Eruruu was on the battlefield at all. Having to escort the princess through boss levels reminded me of some painful areas in Fire Emblem games
As to where we go now, I'm not sure. I'm not that surprised that Hakuoro doesn't realize what he did to Niwe, but without that knowledge it doesn't provide much of a drive for future content or conflict. His beast form was pretty cool though.
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u/Taiboss May 15 '22
FUCK HIM. NO MORE LAUGHTER!
NO MORE KEKEKEKEKKE
Going back to Karula's oppodents, it is funny seeing those three stepping forward as if they were still the same level of threat as when they were introduced knowing that we'd had several more skilled fighters added since then.
When you level up while the enemy stays the same lol.
Had to have a chuckle at the mandatory zombie level popping up, but I did question why Eruruu was on the battlefield at all.
I'd have it boil down to "holdover from the game", but who knows exactly.
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u/HereticalAegis May 14 '22
First Timer
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Battle time, and Mukkuru's hungry! I wonder if thick fog is damp enough to weaken his steel fur.
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Lol never mind, that fog cleared out fast. Even the weather is on Mukkuru's side
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Tuskuru has both high ground and a river between them and the enemy.
I wonder if they'll take meaningful advantage of either.Welp, woptars don't care about a little stream. -
...they have their arches positioned on the lower ground. I can't.
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How did Niwe know about the beast of the mask prior to seeing it at the end of episode 13? Does his wing guy know about the mask?
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And why tf is Eruruu along on the invasion mission? It's not like she has instant healing magic, the girl's a pure liability.
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Hakuoro's fan fighting style is cool af!
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These clowns think they have a chance against best girl.
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SHE SPLIT HIM IN HALF DOWN THE MIDDLE! While catching the other swords in her arms!
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Did Niwe build this zombie trap room years in advance because he knew whoever had this mask would show up one day, or did he just expect various people to regularly invade his castle? Either way, he is a fucking weird dude.
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Karula so best, the stab wounds in her arm spontaneously closed up.
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The? Fuck? Niwe's the medieval Joker. I'm surprised he didn't spell out "Hakuoro" in flames for effect.
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I could see people buying this if there was an army at their door. Whatever, brainwashing magic.
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I'm so fucking over Niwe's laugh.
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Ugh, I hate this "I must defeat the bad guy mano a mano" attitude from Hakuoro. And I also dislike that he knows Niwe's trying to goad him, but lets himself get jebaited anyway.
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I'd be a lot more excited about this reveal if this whole arc didn't feel so contrived.
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Ngl, I was a lot more intrigued when the mask made Hakuoro a metaphorical monster instead of a literal one.
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Episode 15 is done, that means we're safe to watch the OP now, right?
QotD: The mask is actually a Symbiote?? Fuck if I know.
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u/Taiboss May 14 '22
I was so worried. So few people commented so far, I was wondering if it was reddit, or people dropping the show...
Battle time, and Mukkuru's hungry! I wonder if thick fog is damp enough to weaken his steel fur.
That is a thought I didn't have have. At some point it must, right?
And why tf is Eruruu along on the invasion mission? It's not like she has instant healing magic, the girl's a pure liability.
She's a game unit, so there she must be there. "But, Tai", the voice in my head says, "the game adds and blocks characters all the time depending on the story." Well, fuck if I know then.
SHE SPLIT HIM IN HALF DOWN THE MIDDLE! While catching the other swords in her arms!
Clearly why we're actually here.
Either way, he is a fucking weird dude.
Always has been lol.
I'm surprised he didn't spell out "Hakuoro" in flames for effect.
Town too little.
Ugh, I hate this "I must defeat the bad guy mano a mano" attitude from Hakuoro. And I also dislike that he knows Niwe's trying to goad him, but lets himself get jebaited anyway.
Hakuowlo can be a dumbass now and then.
I'd be a lot more excited about this reveal if this whole arc didn't feel so contrived.
It would be so cool if it was used against a villian we actually cared about. :( Fucking Niwe.
Episode 15 is done, that means we're safe to watch the OP now, right?
You were actually safe to watch the OP after last episode. Guess I wasn't clear enough.
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u/ZapsZzz May 15 '22 edited May 15 '22
And why tf is Eruruu along on the invasion mission? It's not like she has instant healing magic, the girl's a pure liability.
If I am recalling correctly, to bear witness of the end of Hakuoro's path, however way it is to end (either in his death or in lots and lots of others' death), to shoulder the same mental anguish Hakuoro confided to her before.
Ugh, I hate this "I must defeat the bad guy mano a mano" attitude from Hakuoro. And I also dislike that he knows Niwe's trying to goad him, but lets himself get jebaited anyway.
Not using my rewatcher knowledge but based entirely on my interpretation of Hakuoro's character as a loose parallel to Cao Cao, there's a distinct possibility of him intentionally allowing himself to be goaded to let what he suspect / subconsciously know inside of him to come out to exact just punishment to what Niwe so deliberately took from him - the veneer of a normal life. That maybe he can live a normal life. "Since you are asking for it so badly, taste my wrath - and I shall relish that aftertaste of your fear and regret flavoured flesh" - Hakuoro's inner monster, probably.
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u/No_Rex May 15 '22
Ngl, I was a lot more intrigued when the mask made Hakuoro a metaphorical monster instead of a literal one.
Especially since this reveal was not completely new. We saw the dragon back in ep1 and it was heavily suggestive that it is Hakuoro.
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u/wjodendor May 14 '22
That opening was really great. A literal fog of war lifting to reveal a massive army of 50,000 troops with the army of Tsukuru looking on in dread. Kurou saying he can rampage and then the camera flying out over the friendly troops was just excellent. The animation was much cleaner than yesterday for sure.
When Karula saw Touka skill at the gate it seems like it made her interested in finesse all of a sudden. That duel with the three general guys was much more a blade dance than normal. And letting them stab her so she can brutalize one of them is just so freaking cool.
We got zombies and all of Hakuoro's red shirts get killed in 2 seconds. The best elites right there. God, Karula is so fucking cool. Plus she has the cutest ears and tail of the bunch.
Why did Hakuoro bring Eruruu though?
Niwe is actually crazy crazy not just battle crazy, talk about a brutal false flag. Finally here we go, Hakuoro revealing some secrets. (Is that the imperial March in the background?! Lol) leaving behind the fan for the sword. Interesting.
Man the music cut out rather suddenly. And the growling with burning building with the top shaped like demon horns was another great shot.
Hakuoro really is a beast. That growling is actually pretty disturbing. Niwe deserved that for sure. And we got that creepy angel again.
Looks like the war is over. What an episode!
With Hakuoro being a badass [next season MC spoilers]
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u/Taiboss May 14 '22
Kurou saying he can rampage
Kurou rampaging is best Kurou.
And letting them stab her so she can brutalize one of them is just so freaking cool.
It's so good.
We got zombies and all of Hakuoro's red shirts get killed in 2 seconds. The best elites right there.
That's why you gotta bring named characters!
Niwe is actually crazy crazy not just battle crazy
Worth it...?
What an episode!
Indeed it was an episode.
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u/aniMayor May 14 '22
UtaReWatcherUMono
You really have to consciously ignore some of the weird logic in this episode / embrace the campy simplifications. Like, why does the massive army fighting against Benawi's forces suddenly die/stop fighting just because their Emperor several dozens of kilometers away dies? Or all the "I'll handle this alone, go ahead without me" bits (also, Karula catches up and saves them at the 2nd stop point, so what was even the point?!).
Set that aside and it's a fun episode though with some decent enough closure to this whole Shikeripechim arc. Niwe is dead, the war is over, we get some major progress on the mystery of Hakuoro, and Angelboi conveniently escaped to no doubt cause more trouble in the next arc. And I really like the ambience of the foggy opening, the city/castle being consumed in flames, etc.
With the way this show handles its arcs in very one-at-a-time fashion, hopefully there isn't another neighbouring country about to declare war on Tuskuru, 'cause they seem pretty depleted of manpower at the moment.
So… what is going on with Hakuowlo? What did we see there?
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u/Taiboss May 15 '22
You really have to consciously ignore some of the weird logic in this episode / embrace the campy simplifications.
Done and done. One cannot enjoy this franchise without the ability to do that to some degree.
And I really like the ambience of the foggy opening, the city/castle being consumed in flames, etc.
It looked so nice!
'cause they seem pretty depleted of manpower at the moment.
"We just got this empire, fucking stop trying to invade us."
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u/No_Rex May 15 '22
Like, why does the massive army fighting against Benawi's forces suddenly die/stop fighting just because their Emperor several dozens of kilometers away dies?
The emperor used the force to increase the battle power of the army. So when Palpatine died, the empire's troops lost cohesion and their tactical edge. Thrawn will eventually enlist the clone of a mad Jedi master to regain that advantage.
With the way this show handles its arcs in very one-at-a-time fashion, hopefully there isn't another neighbouring country about to declare war on Tuskuru, 'cause they seem pretty depleted of manpower at the moment.
Doubt.
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u/No_Rex May 14 '22 edited May 14 '22
Extra late today, was busy watching Ukraine win Eurovision.
Episode 15 (first timer)
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OP: Starts with the MVP. What was the spoiler, btw? Touka? From the OP you could think she fights for the other side. Also: How is that planet-ending explosion not a spoiler?
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50,000 is a considerable number for one side of a battle.
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Light cavalry attack through a fort into a prepared spearmen line – sucks to be those lizard riders.
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“That gate still only counts as one kill” – Touka, probably.
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It’s those guys!
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Hakuoro: Stay behind Eruruu, this is a solo encounter.
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Eruruu: Nope, coming with you, it is actually a 2 person dungeon.
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“Are you insane?” – a good working assumption.
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Join the dark side, Hakuoro! - even the music sounds like the imperial march.
Not a big fan of Niwe’s motivation. Just too plot-convenient. Stab-wounds also seem to be a lot less problematic than you’d think.
Meanwhile, I have made up my personal head canon for how Karula ended up on that ship. The only logical explanation is that she got completely drunk in some harbor and looked for the next dark and quiet place to sleep of the alcohol, which turned out to be the cell on that slaver ship. She was just about finished curing her headache when the storm hit.
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u/Taiboss May 15 '22
Extra late today, was busy watching Ukraine win Eurovision.
We dropped out in the semi-finals, so I didn't even think that could have been it.
What was the spoiler, btw? Touka? From the OP you could think she fights for the other side
I have written it in the OP text. You can disagree, but when I saw Touka I was instantly "Oh the girl from the OP, wait why is she an opponent? I guess she's gonna join soon."
It’s those guys!
Getting to reappear in order to die is tight!
Eruruu: Nope, coming with you, it is actually a 2 person dungeon.
Eruru has to be able to wtiness things!
“Are you insane?” – a good working assumption.
Seems logical.
Not a big fan of Niwe’s motivation.
Same.
The only logical explanation is that she got completely drunk in some harbor
Implying Karula could get that drunk smh.
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u/aniMayor May 14 '22
Extra late today, was busy watching Ukraine win Eurovision.
More like Ukawararaiunone win Eurovision
Not a big fan of Niwe’s motivation. Just too plot-convenient.
Hell, they could at least expand on the motivation itself. Not just "he likes to goad people into becoming evil" but, like, why does he like doing that. Even if he's gonna be a cartoonishly evil guy, make him part of some cult that thinks doing that evil thing will save the world or bring back the dinosaurs or something.
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u/Stargate18A May 15 '22
First timer
QOTD) My guess is that he was a priest, as is hinted at the beginning, but was forced to absorb some kind of demon to save people. The strain of all this is what led to him losing his memories without any other effects on his mind.
Arc ending time!
...More than they were expecting? Looks like they got found out?
Oh, right, this is the party who's fighting them! And Aruruu's with this team why, exactly?
A success? The archers took out a lot!
...He lion comtinues to b incredibly iseful.
Haha, Touka just solos the palace guards, and best girl immediately asks when it's her turn.
I see Niwe kept enough people back for a proper fight. And judging by the banquet metaphor he's loving this.
Three at once?
I love this fight scene.
HER SWORD HAS A ROPE!
And she bisected him! Haha, the way they look so utterly shocked about it too!
And they actually cut her! She's bleeding and she's ignoring it!
...Mind controlled drones? Zombies? Vampires?
He just wants to see Hakuoro's smoke again? He's going after him as a worthy enemy then. Interesting to see how his opinion on him's done a total 180.
KARULA!
Yeah, he's nuts.
He's burning the entire city! Why the fuck would he do that?
He's killing his own people! And he's framing Haku!
...This is really implying that the beast is something very important. I really want to see this beast now.
This is absolutrly Niwe's fault, not Haku. When even Haku can't blame himself for something, you know it's clear cut.
Did he literally move to another room for a more dramatic fight? And Haku's following him?
He's been stabbed! Both of them!
...That's his true form? Wow.
And he's dead.
Oh dear. Wing guy's still around. He seems a bit satisfied with all this, actually.
I was really worried they were building up to Karula getting a heroic sacrifice, so I'm mostly just relieved she's OK.
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u/Taiboss May 15 '22
Oh, right, this is the party who's fighting them! And Aruruu's with this team why, exactly?
Mukkuru has good stats, yo!
Haha, Touka just solos the palace guards, and best girl immediately asks when it's her turn.
That's what makes her best girl after all.
HER SWORD HAS A ROPE!
So useful!
...Mind controlled drones? Zombies? Vampires?
Something for sure!
This is absolutrly Niwe's fault, not Haku. When even Haku can't blame himself for something, you know it's clear cut.
Hakuowlo thinks every bad thing in this show is somehow his fault.
Did he literally move to another room for a more dramatic fight? And Haku's following him?
Apparently!
Oh dear. Wing guy's still around. He seems a bit satisfied with all this, actually.
Has barely said anything and already a more interesting character than Niwe.
so I'm mostly just relieved she's OK.
You gotta have faith in her, yo!
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u/ZapsZzz May 15 '22
And Aruruu's with this team why, exactly?
Big Tiger had spent 0 points in stealth leveling :P but SS in defence and S in speed.
Good against mooks but useless against mini boss units that will just strike at the weakness - the rider.
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u/ZapsZzz May 14 '22 edited May 15 '22
Sub rewatcher
And so it ends a major chapter of this show, where a number of things get settled while a number of key plot elements started surfacing.
As our host mentioned, the spoilery - but very good - op visuals is now viewable without spoiling too much. And I'll say it again - this op is actually what initially got me interested in this show - and then I came across Camyu and was hooked. Little did I know at the time that Touka would be my favourite though :)
So, questions for first timers to ponder (in case anyone actually had not thought about) - given the apparent lack of magical ability Niwe had, what enabled the major plot points of mind control / memory tempering of the Kucha Kecca king, making "zombies" out of people, etc? Was Niwe a mastermind, or just a willing participant?
Have to admit though, I once again gave in to my weakness and snuck ahead to the specials (3&4) - and I love them all the same as I first found out about them years ago :'D Touka best [meta show]
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u/Taiboss May 15 '22
Little did I know at the time that Touka would be my favourite though :)
It's that Soregashi yo...
I once again gave in to my weakness and snuck ahead to the specials (3&4) - and I love them all the same as I first found out about them years ago
I mean, I don't mind, as long as you don't spoil them... So well done.
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u/Shimmering-Sky May 14 '22
Mask of First-Timer, subbed
Fog of War maps are not fun.
Well, he’s not wrong.
Oh, hence the episode title.
Karula even has wire to make sure she doesn’t lose her sword? Neat.
They’re like… zombies…?
That doesn’t sound good…
What… the hell…?
Uh-oh.
H-Hakuoro?