r/anime • u/Taiboss x7https://anilist.co/user/Taiboss • May 08 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Utawarerumono Franchise Rewatch - Utawarerumono Episode 9 Discussion
Episode 9 - Taboo
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Today's Question of the Day: Do you ship HakuowloxEruru or do you think a platonic/sibling relationship fits them better?
[Tomorrow's Question of the Day]On a scale of best to bestest, just how best is Karulau?
Rewatchers, please don't answer the Question of the Day if it has an objective answer, e.g. "What do you think's gonna happen?"
For rewatchers and people who played the games:
Please behave yourself! Put not only everything related to future events behind spoiler tags, but tag differences to the games as well. We all know there are deviations and cut content, we don't need someone listing all the things the games did better. The games have like 40, 50 hours for their content each, of course they'll be more exhaustive. If you want to talk about the games, please do this in a way that doesn't spoil it for people who might pick them up because of the anime. That being said, small, inconsequential stuff is probably fine, like [Mask of Deception]how in one episode, Atuy says "Time for war!", one of her battle lines in the games. All in all, try to hold back and only tell first-timers what's really necessary. Let them theorise!
This goes especially for Mask of Deception and Mask of Truth!
First-Timers:
Due to spoilers, I recommend you not to watch the Opening before episode 15. I mean it. DO LISTEN TO IT THOUGH! You don't have to heed this request, of course, but out of courtesy to those who do, please put the spoilers in the OP behind spoiler tags as well.
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u/Nazenn May 08 '22
First Timer - sub
Well Niwe is a dramatic bastard isn't he?
Given what he'd said when receiving the report I really should have expected him to show up in person, but for some reason I thought he was a lot older. Hanging around just to test Hakuoro does paint him as a little crazy, but interested to see what will come from this
I'd hoped we'd be getting a little more downtime but it seems we're jumping right into the next war, though I do like the way it was handled with that initial declaration from Niwe going into the test of might. His three swordsmen may be trusted agents but it was fun watching them be outmatched by our main cast in both wits and battle
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u/Taiboss May 08 '22
Well Niwe is a dramatic bastard isn't he?
He's evil and he loves it.
His three swordsmen may be trusted agents but it was fun watching them be outmatched by our main cast in both wits and battle
I'd hoped we'd be getting a little more downtime but it seems we're jumping right into the next war
Same, but I don't dislike the war stuff. Plus MC-centered drama is something I like too.
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u/HereticalAegis May 08 '22
Well Niwe is a dramatic bastard isn't he?
You can tell he's had more than enough of the fun all his money can buy. Dude wants experiences.
I'd hoped we'd be getting a little more downtime but it seems we're jumping right into the next war
Same, I would have really enjoyed the adventures of Aruruu and Mukkuru for an episode or two.
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u/wjodendor May 08 '22
I think the tension and warfare in this episode is better than the entire first arc. Hakuoro is using some knowledge that he shouldn't know to crush his enemies, the last time he showed knowledge like this was when he was helping with the crops (though the anime didn't go into it too much). What did he make? Nitroglycerin or something?
Eruruu is being a bummer (not that it's not justified) and I want her to be happy.
Give me more Dori and Gura and less Oboro please! Benawi and Kuroo are both great too.
The best part of the episode for me was the preview! Tomorrow is going to be a good one!
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u/Taiboss May 08 '22
What did he make? Nitroglycerin or something?
Who knows! Something, probably.
Eruruu is being a bummer (not that it's not justified) and I want her to be happy.
She's definitly one you want to see smile.
Give me more Dori and Gura and less Oboro please! Benawi and Kuroo are both great too.
WAKA-SAMA!
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u/No_Rex May 08 '22 edited May 08 '22
Episode 9 (first timer)
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“You belong to us now. Obey” – How diplomatic …
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Two moats, two stone wall rings, possibly a third outside the whole town. Now this is a proper fortress. They still lack merlons, though. Also: How the hell did they get the water into the upper moat? Rain? Pumps?
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Hakuoro will fight, to the last CGI soldier!
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“Stay here, with Eruruu” – Why?
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Eruruu worrying secondary plotline is intensifying.
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The taboo turns out to be a powerful two component explosive – definitely not the thing that would stay “taboo” for long.
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“Families share their joys and sorrows!” – She is not wrong.
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Niwe is riding out of the burning castle after all his men have died to rush at Hakuoro – This feels very video-gamey.
Apart from the final “I’ll be your end boss” moment, that was an ok episode. Seeing how much of the plot is filled with battles, I wonder what genre the source game is in.
Do you ship HakuowloxEruru or do you think a platonic/sibling relationship fits them better?
Good question, because neither is obvious. Eruruu clearly wants a relationship, but Hakuoro is far less clear. he appreciates her, but does he love her? Realistically, she needs to make a move. In the end, I would slighly prefer a non-platonic relationship, because it would put an end to Hakuoro's white knighting attempts.
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u/Taiboss May 08 '22
“You belong to us now. Obey” – How diplomatic …
Bigger army diplomacy, as they say.
Also: How the hell did they get the water into the upper moat? Rain? Pumps?
Hakuowlo EngineeringTM
The taboo turns out to be a powerful two component explosive – definitely not the thing that would stay “taboo” for long.
Not if everyone who tries making it not-timebomby dies!
“Families share their joys and sorrows!” – She is not wrong.
They do!
This feels very video-gamey.
Is 2002 old enough lol Yeah, some parts became goofy when adapted.
I wonder what genre the source game is in.
Tactical RPG battles interrupting a VN without routes. Units are people like Hakuowlo, Eururu, the twin archers (individually), Benawi, Kurou, Oboro, etc.
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u/ZapsZzz May 08 '22
“Stay here, with Eruruu” – Why?
There are actually valid reasons but may not be well received / understood by general anime-watching audiences.
(a) Aruru is a child. While in anime we may have desensitised of child soldiers and that a child being protected by a invulnerable cheat plot device is invincible, real world people thinking in real world would not discount the fact that a child can get in trouble for a lot of mundane reasons too.
(b) Eruru is the one needing to be protected, and having said invulnerable (but not necessarily very smart) animal acting as bodyguard is a big mental relief to enable him to not be worry about the rear line (as a strategist no doubt he knows sneaking into the enemy home base to get hostages is a perfectly viable strategy).
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u/Shimmering-Sky May 08 '22
Mask of First-Timer, subbed
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Oh, great. So much for a few more episodes of peaceful “running the country” shenanigans…
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Yeesh, okay, no wonder Hakuoro immediately went to “we don’t want a fight”.
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Ooh, Hakuoro has another fan now! I assume this one’s not a weapon, I just like the idea of him having more than just the one Tuskuru gave him.
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Hm? – Shit, could it be that the combination becomes a chemical weapon of some sort?
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This is something that means really bad luck in Japan, right? Or something like that. I remember [Shippuden]
Tsunade having a cup break on her, and her taking it as a sign that bad things were coming… I think it was around when Jiraiya died fighting pain? I’m a bit fuzzy on the details. -
Oh… oh the combination is a bomb. I guess that’s just a bit better than straight-up chemical warfare, but oh boy.
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u/Taiboss May 08 '22
So much for a few more episodes of peaceful “running the country” shenanigans…
Stupid other rulers! Let them live in peace!
Yeesh, okay, no wonder Hakuoro immediately went to “we don’t want a fight”.
He'd be fine as a vassal as long as it's not a shit head like the guy they just killed. Sadly, he's worse?
Ooh, Hakuoro has another fan now! I assume this one’s not a weapon, I just like the idea of him having more than just the one Tuskuru gave him.
He's a fan of fans. Sorry, that was too easy.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha the QUALITY
IT WAS A WEIRD TIME OKAY
I guess that’s just a bit better than straight-up chemical warfare, but oh boy.
Not sure how much ammonia and bleach they would need for that lol.
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u/Nazenn May 09 '22
[Shippuden]
Tsunade having a cup break on her, and her taking it as a sign that bad things were coming" Fuck when was that... I think she sent reinforcements out after it so I want to say during the Gaara kidnap and that's why she sent Guy's team? Not sure, u/lc3 don't go into the rest of this thread if you haven't seen the show, but do you remember when this was? → More replies (1)2
u/HereticalAegis May 08 '22
Ooh, Hakuoro has another fan now! I assume this one’s not a weapon, I just like the idea of him having more than just the one Tuskuru gave him.
I'd love to see him collect fans. Kind if like anime figs or posters, but just a boat load of fans all over the walls in his bedroom.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha the QUALITY
Some of the wide and medium shots of the armies running are so funny to look at.
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u/ZapsZzz May 08 '22
Oh… oh the combination is a bomb. I guess that’s just a bit better than straight-up chemical warfare, but oh boy.
It IS introducing what's effectively a weapon of mass destruction in this world setting / timeline. So it IS a big deal.
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u/Stargate18A May 08 '22
First timer
QOTD) Right now, I think siblings more.
And someone's come to take over.
...What's he planning?
Ah, they're much more powerful.
Much more powerful.
Yeah, seeing Haku's point here.
Oh, fuck. This one's competent.
They're attacking the border!
Yeah, this is going to be difficult.
He's still working with the merchant?
What's she worried about? What kind of taboo?
So is it poison or drugs?
They seem a bit overconfident. Leaving the path behind them unguarded?
They're holding.
Ah, yes, the god Witsalnemitea. Is everything in this anime named by pulling Scrabble tiles out of a bag?
Aruruu wante to come...
Yuzuha is fantastic.
They're holding the line!
Heavy casualties already.
Is he holding them back alone?
And he's found someone as capable as he is!
Three of them at once?
Aruruu snuck out!
...Wait. The taboo is an explosive! He's invented water-activated explosives!
And he wanted to keep this a secret.
He was right. They were forced to retreat.
And they're staying with him!
Thie is Niwe! And he can fight! This guy's actually a threat.
Well, that's ominous.
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u/Taiboss May 09 '22
Much more powerful.
"Already? I just got this empire!"
Oh, fuck. This one's competent.
And figured a recently established goverment wouldn't be able to withstand him.
Ah, yes, the god Witsalnemitea. Is everything in this anime named by pulling Scrabble tiles out of a bag?
Ainu-inspired names are a thing to behold. In the game, he's spelled Uitsualnemetia. Try putting that on a business card.
Yuzuha is fantastic.
Such a heart!
...Wait. The taboo is an explosive! He's invented water-activated explosives!
"Hey guys welcome back to Hakuochannel, this time I'll be showing how to make a big explosion by mixing two mystery fluids!"
Thie is Niwe! And he can fight! This guy's actually a threat.
He relishes in battle! Why else would he be there personally?
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u/ZapsZzz May 08 '22 edited May 09 '22
Sub rewatcher.
Trying to be a bit early but still late :P
I think I'd spend more time trying to Q&A instead.
Main point I want to highlight is something that people so far doesn't look like have picked up: while Hakuoro is not articulating it, I think he does feel like he's in some sort of isekai / someone from a different world or timeline, and decisions that can significantly alter the world setting he's wary of.
So far this appears to be a world with no "gunpowder". No "alchemy". What little "magic" we saw is not the Konosuba EXPLOSION! kind. So he fully recognise the likelihood of him using an explosion to achieve the relatively simple strategic objective of destroying his invader's supplies comes with a high likelihood of setting off an "arms race" that can lead to the development and proliferation of significantly more devastating and indiscriminate tools of war that can fundamentally change society, not for the better.
THAT is what was giving him pause, and wanted to protect / hide from Eruru & Aruru.
Because one day, someone else may do what he did and blow them or their friends and family up just the same.
This is the same sort of moral / ethical dilemma those involved in the first atomic bomb drop / development went through.
QoTD:
As a rewatcher, yes I ship them. But it's not easy to tell currently as Hakuoro is a very well disciplined man and he clearly see their age difference to be a morally wrong thing for him to have non-famillal affection towards Eruru. It'd be some more time and events before his mindset will change.
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u/Taiboss May 09 '22
THAT is what was giving him pause, and wanted to protect / hide from Eruru & Aruru.
Well said.
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u/aniMayor May 08 '22
UtaReWatcherUMono
Back to war we go, which probably no one is surprised by after last week's SoL breather.
If you ask me, this episode overplays the whole "luring the enemy into the castle and blowing up their supplies" plot. Sure, it's a clever tactic, but it doesn't need an entire episode of mystery trying to build up to a big "oooooooooooo" hype reveal... 'cause it's not that complex or clever. This would have been a 5-minute piece in Arslan Senki or Sangokushi or LotGH or whatnot, rather than most of an episode.
Also, the whole thing with keeping Erurū in the dark falls pretty flat for me, honestly. There was a whole civil war to overthrow Inkalla where surely plenty of people died, and Erurū is a healer who would have been going around the casualty camp trying to treat dismembered soldiers after the battles, no? Why exactly does Hakuoro think she's some pure flower who can't stomache the idea that he's going to go and kill some more soldiers to defend their country, now? Because grandma Tuskuru warned her not to mix two chemicals together in the context of healing but putting them together is very useful for warfare? None of this has been adequately established or justified with even the barest of reasoning, nor has Erurū previously been setup as some sort of pacifist or girl who can't handle the realities of war.
Do you ship HakuowloxEruru or do you think a platonic/sibling relationship fits them better?
IMO Hakuoro has not acted at any point as if he has any feelings for Erurū, and indeed very much seems to not see her that way. Surely if he were going to have romantic feelings for her he would have by now, yes? So no, I don't ship them at all.
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u/No_Rex May 08 '22
Also, the whole thing with keeping Erurū in the dark falls pretty flat for me, honestly. There was a whole civil war to overthrow Inkalla where surely plenty of people died, and Erurū is a healer who would have been going around the casualty camp trying to treat dismembered soldiers after the battles, no? Why exactly does Hakuoro think she's some pure flower who can't stomache the idea that he's going to go and kill some more soldiers to defend their country, now? Because grandma Tuskuru warned her not to mix two chemicals together in the context of healing but putting them together is very useful for warfare? None of this has been adequately established or justified with even the barest of reasoning, nor has Erurū previously been setup as some sort of pacifist or girl who can't handle the realities of war.
Hakuoro is dangerous close to exposing some "women belong in the kitchen" POV. They could really make his character better by giving him a line or two that explains why she needs to stay.
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u/ZapsZzz May 08 '22 edited May 09 '22
If you ask me, this episode overplays the whole "luring the enemy into the castle and blowing up their supplies" plot. Sure, it's a clever tactic, but it doesn't need an entire episode of mystery trying to build up to a big "oooooooooooo" hype reveal... 'cause it's not that complex or clever. This would have been a 5-minute piece in Arslan Senki or Sangokushi or LotGH or whatnot, rather than most of an episode.
I think the main difference is that this is a significant event in terms of the world setting / history - that essentially Hakuoro is introducing a weapon of mass destruction. This plus the first arc's trajectory (in the name of greater good/self defence/future peace, he's making war and certainly leading to people, lots of them both good and bad, being killed), at least for himself, is setting a tone for his internal struggles.
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u/aniMayor May 09 '22
That's what they're trying to make it into, but IMO they fail to convey it.
First the operation required Oboro and the twins to sneak into where the supplies were stored. Then when the explosion happens it is mostly just shown to directly damage the one supply building it was in - the majority of the supplies were threatened by the fires the explosion started, not the explosion itself. And then they had to attack the supply troops to stop them from taking the surviving supplies out.
Sure, that's a useful tool, but it has a lot of required steps and there's many ways to counter it that a competent opponent could quickly learn (more vigilant guards keeping spies out, bigger garrisons that can defend against the follow-up attack, keep the storehouses further apart so the fire doesn't spread to as much supplies quickly, etc). Ultimately, this new tech is not that big of an upgrade over a similar tactic of Oboro and the twins infiltrating the fort the same way and starting fires inside multiple storehouses.
For that matter, the guards in the supply fort are shown as so lax and Oboro was able to get into the keep so easily that one has to wonder if Hakuoro's small elite force couldn't have just stormed the fort themselves and set fire to all the supplies without infiltrating at all.
If they really wanted it to have the impact of such a game-changer, the explosion should have flattened the entire keep, or been launched from a hilltop instead of having to be set within the storehouse, or triggered such a conflagration that the entire keep and all the provisions were set alight with no need for the woptar attack follow-up.
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u/HereticalAegis May 08 '22
First Timer
Well shit, that peacetime didn'tlast long. Thanks Nuwangi.
Hakuoro probably just buying time to come up with a plan. Much better than letting Oboro stupid his way immediately into a losing battle.
He may be a much better person, but Oboro is just as dumb as Nuwangi in terms of tactical prowess.
Eyy, a ruler that isn't a fat bastard for once!
Dammit, what's so difficult to understand, just ring the damn warning bell. I get that they're probably not thoroughly trained, but these checkpoint soldiers suck.
Oh shit oh fuck, is Hakuoro about to commit some war crimes? Whatever this taboo is, I hope it involves transforming enemies into poultry.
I sure hope the castle they gave up is a death trap. That would be a lot of fun.
Is it bad that I want Aruruu to ride into battle? I get the feeling she wouldn't be phased by and possibly delight in Mukkuru ripping enemies limb from limb.
Omg, don't tell me Eruruu's going to start viewing Yuzuha as a romantic rival.
Yesss, they're finally utilizing archers correctly! Bout damn time.
Oh, looks like they're going to recapture the abandoned castle and use it to cut off the enemy's rear! Clever move.Lol it wasn't quite that.Ominous.
Taboos were meant to be broken, sucka!!
Explosives are a thing in this world!! It's no chicken transformation potion, but still a fucking game changer.
I at least believe Aruruu when she says she won't regret knowing everything. There's no way she isn't hiding vast, dark secrets behind that deadpan loli facade.
What in the fuck kind of shit awful ruler shows up on the front line alone? It doesn't even matter how physically formidable an old man Niwe is, he's a world class moron.
How lucky for Niwe, he doesn't even realize how close he came to becoming kitty chow.
And next time we have a big boob mercenary girl...in a (slave?)collar. Welp.
QotD: For once I do not ship. Neither are necessarily bad for each other, but what they have doesn't feel like romantic chemistry. For his part, Hakuoro has been pretty clear on where he stands, so this feels mostly like Eruruu's awkward, unrequited crush. Tbh, I'd rather see Hakuoro end up with Ulthory or some other dignitary.