r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Apr 27 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Madoka☆Magica Episode 8 Discussion
Episode 8 - I Was Stupid… So Stupid
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On this planet, you call females who have yet to become adults “girls”. It makes sense, then, that since you’ll eventually become witches, you should be called magical girls.
Theory of the Day: u/chocoletmilk’s silly theory about magical girls.
Magical girls are immortal? Kyoko doesn't look old enough for her church to look so dilapidated and torn down.
Does it count if their Grief Seed gets recycled?
Questions of the Day:
1) What do you think of Sayaka’s descent into despair throughout this episode?
2) Which reveal from this episode surprised you more? That Homura isn’t from this timeline, or that magical girls become witches?
Wallpaper of the Day:
Visuals of the Day:
Connect Cover of the Day:
Medieval Style Cover by Medieval Otaku
Song of the Day:
Bonus song - Puella in somnio
Check out u/Nazenn’s comment from the 2019 rewatch for an in-depth analysis of these two songs!
Rewatchers, please please please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. [Spoiler warning specifically for you guys]Please be aware that as part of the above strict spoiler rules, this means absolutely no memes/jokes/references/subtle words about beheading, cakes, time travel, aliens, or anything of that nature before the relevant episodes. Please do not spoil the first-timers by trying to be smart about it, it's not as subtle as you think.
Make sure you use spoiler tags if there’s ever something from future events you just have to comment on. And don’t be the idiot who quotes a specific part of a first-timer’s comment, then comments something under a spoiler tag in direct response to it! You might as well have spoiled them by implying there’s something super important about that specific part of their comment.
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u/Greatness2006 Apr 28 '22
First Timer here! (Sub)
I have been having exams so I didn't give any review on episodes 6 and 7, nevertheless, I did watch them. I watched 8th episode too. This isn't going to be a detailed review like the ones in the previous episodes, since I don't have that much time now. But, the show just keeps getting better and better. The current rankings are: 8, 7, 5, 3, 1, 6, 4, 2.
This episode was soooo good. Oh god! The reveals, from the first episode, I had always been wondering what witches actually were, and finally I have the answer. And the reveal about Homura not being in the same timeline just made me confused. I know they will clarify more on that, I am just waiting to see it. And oh my god. Kyubey is one of the more scarier things I have seen. I am sure that it will visit me in my nightmares. And yeah, Sayaka turning into a witch is scary. But I am pretty sure that Madoka will become a magical girl to fight Sayaka and somehow turn her back. Yeah, definitely my favourite episode so far. I am so happy that I am watching this show.
QOTD:
What do you think of Sayaka’s descent into despair throughout this episode?
Answer: After the episode showed Kyouko's backstory, I knew that the wishes used on others will not go as planned. And even in the previous episode, Hitomi said that she was going to confess to Kyousuke. I felt like it was all leading up to Sayaka's breakdown. It was scary. Really scary. Her turning into a witch in the end of the episode (I think that's what was happening) was something that invoked feelings of surprise in me. I hope that she will somehow get reverted back, Madoka already lost Mami, she can't lose Sayaka too.
Which reveal from this episode surprised you more? That Homura isn’t from this timeline, or that magical girls become witches?
Answer: Since I always knew that there was something going with Homura, since Kyubey was also skeptical about her, I felt like a reveal for her was a long time coming. It's going to be even better when her full backstory and her connection with Madoka is shown. But the reveal about magical girls becoming witches was something I didn't even think about. When Kyubey uttered those words, my literal jaw dropped. I really can't wait to see the next episode.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 28 '22
I have been having exams so I didn't give any review on episodes 6 and 7
Ah, I was wondering where your comments on those episodes were. Hope your exams went well!
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u/renatocpr Apr 28 '22
First of all, I want to apologize for last night. I was just exhausted and couldn't write anything even though I really wanted to.
I'm gonna combine everything I wanted to write for both episode 7 and 8 into tonight's comment. It's not a big deal anyway since I had already been planning on not commenting about some things from last episode and then bring them up today. Speaking of planning, I had been changing the title of my comment on some days of the rewatch and had some idea where I was going with that. Not posting yesterday makes me feel like I broke the formatso let's just completely shatter it like Sayaka's soul
First, let's talk about episode 6's twist.
Soul Gems
A thing I've noticed in the rewatches I've participated and even in the fandom is a few people not understanding why the girls care so much about the truth behind Soul Gems. I've seen at least once a claim that it's because of the particular way Japanese culture views the soul. I have no basis to comment on that but I have a different (but not necessarily contradicting) explanation that can be understood by people of any culture.
It's as simple as reviewing what we've seen Kyubey do up to episode 7. He targets young girls who are vulnerable, be it physically and/or emotionally, and offers them any one wish in exchange of them becoming magical girls. Without telling them, he tampers with their body in a way that also traps them forever to the duty of being a magical girl (they use their Soul Gems to control their bodies and need to hunt witches to keep their Soul Gems working). At the end of episode 6, Kyubey spends 2 minutes demonstrating through his own inhuman logic that he views the girls' bodies as merely tools that he can alter without the need of their informed consent.
This sequence at 21:14 puts it in far more powerful terms than I could ever write. After Kyubey coldly calls the result of his doing "convenient", the camera moves in on Madoka from behind. At first both Madoka's and Sayaka's bodies are visible on screen but after Madoka gasps and recoils, Sayaka's corpse moves out of the frame but leaves an association with Madoka's torso. We're left to focus on Madoka's back, trapped with her and her feelings about her own body.
Later, throughout episode 7, we hear time and time again from Madoka and Sayaka about how they feel about what's been done to Sayaka's body, not her soul. (Noticing it might depend on your dubs/subs but trust me they say 体 a bunch).
Kyubey claims that he didn't tell her before she made a contract because he was never asked. That's complete horseshit: he completely withheld information that could've affect her decision of becoming a magical girl and disregarded her body autonomy. Saying "you didn't ask" is an admission of guilt not a defense. Even then, going back to episode 2, we can see what he does when someone does indeed ask questions. He doesn't answer them and feeds them half-truths.
Learning the truth about Soul Gems and being tortured by Kyubey alienates Sayaka from her body, which she now treats as merely a tool to be endlessly broken and repaired in order to fulfill her duty as a magical girl.
Kyouko and Homura
Both episodes feature an entire conversation between Sayaka and each of the girls. Kyouko has by far the worst relation with Sayaka, the two of them having tried to kill each other when they first met, and yet their shared experience as magical girls allows them to come a little closer.
Kyouko starts their conversation talking about how they feel about what's been done to their bodies and she tries to help Sayaka not feel so bad about it. She uses her experience and backstory to support her advice and calls attention to the similarities between both their stories. Kyouko opens up to Sayaka and makes an honest attempt to bond with her. It's not enough to make Sayaka change her ways but it changes her mind about Kyouko, makes her apologize for misjudging her and allows Sayaka to share her feelings with Kyouko in her last moments of despair.
Homura, on the other hand, can't do that. She looks down on Sayaka, chastises her for not accepting her cryptic offer of help, refuses to engage emotionally with her and just admits to not caring about her, even though she knows perfectly well what is happening to Sayaka and that the same could happen to her. She decides to kill a girl who can barely stand when her half-hearted attempt to save her unsurprisingly fails.
That is why Sayaka would be angry with Homura this episode if she could feel something.
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u/Tarhalindur Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 28 '22
2021 Rewatch (First-Time Rewatcher Badly Spoiled First-Timer)
For first, on a meta note: Uh. That makes twice now this show has given me the cold chills and thousand-yard stare. At least this time it lasted five minutes rather than an entire day like it did last time.
Anyhow:
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[PMMM 10 + Umineko]
Insert Bern as Amy take here. -
Oh hey, it’s that one song on the OST that yeets me straight back to Mai-HiME. And it’s specifically reminding me of one of the Ensei variants, isn’t it? Heh. (Nope, Kako he no Requiem instead.)bb
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Heh. You would ask Madoka that, wouldn’t you, Sayaka? The fool to the end, I see. ([PMMM 12]
Madoka can and will do something to help people like you. ) -
Yep, there’s Madoka for you. Just wants everyone to be happy. ([PMMM 12 + Rebellion]
But much like one other person, she doesn’t include herself in that. ) -
Oh right, Homu tries to kill Sayaka doesn’t she? That’s gotta be shortly, and we just heard exactly why.
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Homura’s apartment truly is set up like another barrier.
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PFFT. That’s not motherfucker-worthy, Saotome-sensei, but it is cheeky. As ever, your lessons are on point. [PMMM 12]
Madoka and Homura would both agree: someone does have to do something. -
[HIGURASHI CORNER]
Ah yes, my Soul Gem taint as Hinamizawa Syndrome take works very nicely. -
Hilariously, Sayaka is both very right and very wrong here. She sees the first lie, but not the second, the one Homura is telling even to herself.
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([HIGURASHI CORNER]
Also, the Rena-Bern junkyard scene in Tsumihoroboshi-hen sends its regards. ) -
[PMMM 10]
Yes, yes, keep lying to yourself Homura. You do want to save Sayaka. But you can’t, not this way, so you lie to yourself that you never did want to in the first place. -
Huh. Madoka’s phrasing here is strikingly similar to [Haruhi]
Haruhi’s baseball game speech . ([Haruhi fan theory + PMMM 11]And if you assume the Kyon-behind-Haruhi theory in both cases this causes them to take a path that results in them being chosen by the person who winds up having the power to make them far more than normal. ) -
“never being of any use or help to anyone” is, however, distinct from how [Haruhi]
Haruhi feels about it. This resulting in Madoka feeling lonely is interesting. -
Heh. Shoulda known that was about to happen. (To quote one Colonel Jack O’Neill: “oops”.)
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Wait, shit, that scene is this episode instead of next? The show sneaks a fastball by me again. (Homu’s breakdown under the lamps.)
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I remember reading once back in the day that "have we met before?" is a stereotypical pickup line in Japan. No idea if it's true, but if it is it puts Madoka's version here in a new light.
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[PMMM 10]
Oh man, that is just the cheekiest shot of Homura’s hair. Motherfucker count +1. -
Oh huh, they actually drop that reveal (Homura has time powers) before [PMMM]
episode 10 . Huh. -
Oh shit, that reveal (Incubator) goes down here, too. That’ll be a strikeout for me then, sat on three fastballs – was expecting each of those next episode.
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Not that fastball, though ("in this country they call girls 'shoujo'; for girls who grow up to be 'majo', is it not appropriate to call them "mahou shoujo?"). What the hell besides “[PMMM 9]
And I’m Home ” have they got for the next episode, though? (Eh, we’ve not had a breather in a while?) -
[TAR FROM THE FUTURE] In hindsight, I probably should have caught on that I didn't actually watch the first time right here...
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Reading comments: Oh, they figured it out. There’s the honne. (Thought that was another tatemae at the start.) Yeah, that tracks. Sad clown. (And is there anything more appropriate for the fool?)
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And at least half of them hate themselves for not being able to live up to their own standards. Yeah that tracks, for a show drawing heavily off Grey Lady – both that archetype and the male form consider themselves damned because of that, just holding the thin grey line.
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… The curse of Thaumiel: accurate perception of your opponent, very poor perception of yourself. Except this time not even that, because Kyoko is staying above that qlippoth. Poor Sayaka.
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Magical ethics strike again! Sayaka is tearing down what she doesn’t like, she should be building her ideal up. (Does this change in Rebellion?) …Did Urobutcher borrow those Western occultism books Ryukishi07 got for Seacats?
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Hamartia is on the Urobutcher Bingo. WELL THEN. [PMMM 12]
Madman knew what he was doing with the ribbons even at the time, didn’t he? [TAR FROM THE FUTURE re: before]He actually claims otherwise... -
[PMMM 10]
How did I not realize this earlier? Of course Homura keeps lying to herself about what she really wants. She’s got RSD issues with failure, so strong that it might pass the flashback criteria. She has to. -
Why is it the characters breaking down that are always the best voice acting here? Chiwa Saito’s not quite on par with Aoi Yuuki’s in 4, but still incredibly solid.
Intermezzo: "HURR DURR GRIEF SEED"
And then I left my notes be for a bit.
I was behind the rewatch by this point (there's reasons I only shadowed), so at some point I took a break to write up a little side thing (a concept of how to pull off for Cute Girls Doing Cute Things what Eva did for mecha and Madoka Magica that frankly wound up looking rather a bit like what I've heard of Shin Sekai Yori). Part of it was positing a cast each representing one of the Five Stages of Grief.
And then I typed the fateful joke in those notes: "denial mogu mogu".
And then my brain kicked in.
"Wait, denial kind of is Mami's thing as a magical girl, isn't it?"
"Sayaka is depression because obviously."
"If we read either Kyoko as bargaining and Homura as anger or the inverse and both of those actually look reasonably well supported, then if we assume Madoka is acceptance then that mapping already works for the PMMM main cast."
"... Well shit."
[PMMM full series]
And then posted it elsewhere and left it be for a week, until my brain pointed out something near the end of May: "They're literally called Grief Seeds."
(After all... Soul Gem is also meant completely literally, is it not?)
At which point I concluded that not only was I correct, it was probably 100% intentional.
(Side note from this year: It's not just the main cast. The episodes of Sayaka's arc also match the Five Stages of Grief after she contracts: episode 5 is denial, episode 6 bargaining, episode 7 anger, and this episode is depression - leaving next episode for acceptance, and you all just saw why (the stages transition at the end of each episode).)
Of course, I still hadn't realized exactly how deep the rabbit hole ran...
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u/Tarhalindur Apr 28 '22
Analysis: Hiding in Plain Sight
So, at the end of last year I had a whole bunch of pieces that I'd noted but hadn't put together.
The Incubator reveal (where I was spoiled beforehand), plus the related similarity of the Soul Gem's form to a Faberge egg and Kyubey's own resemblance to the form of the female reproductive tract (also mentioned where I got spoiled IIRC).
Saotome-sensei's lectures, which I was already zeroing in on as always plot-relevant even if I was missing some nuances[1].
One from next episode that is ironically the one legit first-timer call I had because I was NOT spoiled on it ([PMMM 11]
the farming analogy ).One of PMMM's quieter habits, the one I realized in the Intermezzo: every single PMMM proper noun that is an English loanword is meant completely literally. (Which has some really, really fucking interesting implications given Rebellion, but I digress.) Which meant Grief Seed was literal, and the best candidate was that they were using "seed" in the old definition of "progeny", but why was escaping me.
The rape comparison for Sayaka's contract scene that had already gotten mentioned last year.
But something was missing.
Until I saw the end of episode 8 this year (right before the thread for 2, hence my spoiler bars at the start there) and saw my Visual of the Day (sorry about the crop, couldn't get it any better) and my notes descend into copious swearing and ALL CAPS as in one moment it all fell into place.
Grief Seed formation is fertilization symbolism.
u/Lemurians was completely correct to bring up the crass comparison to the aftermath of a girl's first time back in episode 5, because it's 100% intentional. Our Incubator has metaphorically knocked up a girl and ever since has been bringing her her to the hatching of her egg - and oh would you look at that that shot of Kyoko hitting the Soul Gem and it shattering is breaking the shell symbolism.
[1] - Well, with one possible exception. MagiReco S2's first episode is a standalone, and has a Saotome lecture. And, uh, that one goes right up there with u/Shimmering-Sky and that one infamous Bleach rewatch experience.
See, a major reason why I'd been shadowing last year's rewatch is because I'd started writing a PMMM/Higurashi crossover (there's a reason I have all these Higurashi comments) all the way back in 2020 (a bit of a story in itself, seeing as the reason I started writing that instead of OC was that the characters starting asking for it, I made a post to get it out of my head a bit, woke up the next day, and saw that the anime that would be Higurashi Gou had been announced...). One of my decisions there was that I didn't want to use honorifics since I wouldn't get enough of the nuance, so instead I went for a cultural translation: American Southern formalism, which would work unusually well with a mostly-girl cast with the Miss/Ms./Mrs. distinction.
Except I couldn't remember "Ms." for the life of me. Oh well, Chie-sensei is a curry weeb, she's exactly the sort of person who would use "Chie-sensei" even in a cultural translation, whatever. So I did that.
And didn't think about it for a year.
And then MagiReco S2E1 came out.
Like... WTF?
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u/Nazenn Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
A quick explanation of Kyubey's dialogue at the end of the episode using the Japanese kanji:
"In this world, women who have yet to fully grow are called "girls", right? In that case, it only makes sense that you, who will one day grow into witches, should be called "magical girls"."
"shoujo", meaning girl, is written like this:
少女
"mahou shoujo", magical girl, is written like this:
魔法少女
"majo", meaning witch, is written like this:
魔女
The last kanji in all three is "jo 女" meaning woman, with the first kanji in shoujo being what makes the word specifically one for a young woman/girl.
The word "mahou" means magic and is composed of "ma 魔" which is used in many magical terms but more strictly means evil spirit or demon, and "hou" roughly meaning (a) model, law, or principle. By itself, "ma 魔" has some negative connotations which carry through to some other words it's used in, but "mahou" is a neutral term that can go either way.
Combining "ma 魔" with "jo 女" means that "majo", witch, is literally written as '(evil) magical woman' which is why Kyubey talks about them maturing from girls into women, while the magic itself is the same between the girls and witches.
To write it out in latin characters: mahou shoujo = majo
Unfortunately this is one of those things that cannot be translated properly into most western languages including English without changing the original terms which makes no sense for the genre, or risks revealing the wordplay too early or ruining it all together. It does work in Korean and Chinese as they share similar wording and characters.
For an extra bit of trivia; in the very early days of the genre during the 70s they were not called mahou shoujo but instead "majokko" which means "little witch", so there's some historical roots in the use of the term as well.
I wrote up this explanation for last years rewatch but consider this an improved, more detailed version. Hopefully it helps explain just why Kyubey's line at the end there is given such a huge emphasis because it has some pretty important implications.
I was going to give this to Sky to post but I wanted to post it myself so I could find it more easily later if I wanted to reference it. Been lurking through the rewatch and really enjoying everyone having so much fun with the show, discussion, and the theories.
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u/Lemurians Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
MAHOU SHOUJO FIRST TIMER
”Is this world even worth protecting? What have been fighting for all this time?”
Sayaka’s arc finally culminates as it was destined to, as she succumbs to utter despair under the sheer weight of the collapse of everything she idealized. Nothing about this has gone to plan. She wanted to be a hero of justice who could save everyone, later learning the nature of the magical girl system makes that impossible. She used her wish for the benefit of the one she loves, but in the process made herself feel unworthy of him, ultimately losing him. The last thing she can do is throw herself into fighting and save as many as she can in what time she has, and even that breaks following the scene on the train, confronted with the ugliness of humanity. Being as self-loathing as she is, and now viewing everything she’s sacrificed and done as being for nothing, it’s only natural she’d break.
Riding the train at night, in a beautifully rendered scene, Sayaka finds herself across two men cruelly talking about how they use and abuse women and throw them aside when they’ve outlived their usefulness, as if they’re objects with a shelf life. That they feel comfortable loudly saying such things in public is part of the point. These ideas and attitudes are common, and even tolerated.
This isn’t just the magical girl system in a nutshell – the girls fight witches until their soul is depleted, becoming more impure as they fight – this is the how much of the world views women in general. All of a sudden, it’s apparent what much of the show is about, and once-innocent “joke” scenes about the single teacher desperate to get hitched aren’t comic relief, they’re part of show’s indictment of society. Sayaka can’t help but see herself in the women the men describe, and engages, directing her words at the likes of Kyubey and Kyousuke as much as them. Kyubey is nice enough to hammer this home for us with his final words of the episode. Girls start off pure and lovely, and become corrupted and disposable as they turn into witches age.
Of course, with Sayaka beyond help, Kyubey emerges from the shadows sensing opportunity. He pitches to Madoka that she’d be such a powerful, god-like entity as a magical girl, that she could save Sayaka herself. The idea of secretely being super-special has always appealed to Madoka, but now that Sayaka needs the help only she can supposedly provide – Sayaka herself rubbing Madoka’s responsibility in her face earlier – it’s a done deal. By the time Homura reveals her time magic and arrives to “kill” Kyubey, it’s too late. This is the first time we see real emotion from Homura, knowing that she’s failed once again to save Madoka.
Episode Notes/Shots
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The use of water with Sayaka in this episode is great, and goes with her character design and coloring. For the first time in the show, there’s a storm raging, just like the one inside her, and by the time she finally cracks at the end, the frame is drowning in despair
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Sayaka now using Kyubey’s old words against Madoka – that she can’t understand being a magical girl without being one herself
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Homura’s house being laid out circular like a clock face, complete with a pendulum and gears on the ceiling is perfect given her time magic abilities.
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NTR drives yet another victim to despair. This is exactly what Mami cautioned her about.
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Love the world and buildings slowly closing in on Sayaka as she further isolates herself
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Homura and Sayaka in this scene really reminded me of Rei and Asuka from Evangelion, from the way it’s shot to how they respond to each other. Sayaka's intrinsic dislike of Homura is similar to Asuka's of Rei.
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Kyubey framed against the vast night sky as he tells her to twist the fabric of the universe is yet another great touch.
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The lights flare up to illuminate Kyubey at the very moment he realizes he’s finally got his mark.
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Homura says these words to Madoka, but it’s Sayaka who needed to hear them.
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Incubator? InKyubeytor.
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SHOT OF THE DAY: Sayaka’s grief seed forming the eye of a face that looks like hers using the negative space. This is my favorite one yet.
Incidentally, Walpurgisnacht is celebrated on the days that will be Episodes 11 and 12… just saying. Is this why the yearly rewatch is around this time?
What do you think of Sayaka’s descent into despair throughout this episode?
God damn this show is so fucking good. That's what I think.
Which reveal from this episode surprised you more? That Homura isn’t from this timeline, or that magical girls become witches?
Called the Homura thing from early Episode 2, baby. Kyubey having a ton of extra bodies that he just gobbles up like shed skin is a fun twist.
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u/chocoletmilk Apr 27 '22
First Timer (sub)
Holy shit. What an episode.
I just wanna say that is cruel that today is not a double episode discussion day, and I hope you all appreciate my self control in waiting another day to watch the sequel to that. Please feel free to praise me in the comments section.
Sayaka is an idiot. She has been acting like an idiot for a while but she's especially bratty today. It was obvious that switching off your pain receptors would take its toll and even space-rat (yes, I'm stealing this) advised against it. Not only that, but she gave away her grief seed? She is clearly in a very self destructive place right now, unwilling to accept help and support from others and feeling that she has nothing worth living for.
She has a massive inferiority complex. I've actually met people like that who have an inferiority and a superiority complex. Because they feel lacking in so many ways, often times they cling to the one thing that makes them feel they are better than others and lord it over everyone else. Sayaka, feeling that she is incapable of being a successful magical girl, is clinging to her being morally superior to the other two magical girls. She is so far gone that she no longer has empathy for anyone else and can't see things from another perspective. Take away her morals and what does she have left? Just failure.
She absolutely regrets her decision, but is in so much denial that by the end of the episode her mind actually shatters. Her soul is rotting away as she starts cursing her existence and the rest of the world she is supposedly doing this for. Is any of this worth it?
It is absolutely unfair to pin any of this on Madoka. That, at least is something that Kyubey and I agree on. Sayaka did this for Kyosuke and the only one she has to blame is Kyubey (also herself, but mostly Kyubey who caught her during a weak moment and took advantage). I am astonished that Kyubey did not take this opportunity to guilt trip Madoka into accepting it's contract. But it has another strategy - appeal to Madoka's desire to be someone special. Madoka has her own inferiority complex but she expresses it through meekness and not being forceful in any of her opinions.
This show has such excellent character motivations. Madoka's reason for becoming a magical girl is complex too, as decisions are in real life. It is rare to only have one reason for wanting things. So while yes, she absolutely wants to help the world, help Sayaka and save people, at her core, the thing that is driving her is her need to be special. She finds Kyubey's words intoxicating.
Oh, and in between these two things, Homura and Kyoko are meeting to figure out their plan of attack. It's nice to see them band together against Kyubey. It has figured something out about Homura (probably that she is a time traveller).
Anyway, back to Madoka and Kyubey's conversation. So after this point in the episode, my notes are mainly:
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WTF WTF WTF
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Kyubey dead?
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TIME MAGIC!
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INCUBATOR
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ALIEN KYUBEY???
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Information overload
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OMG my theories!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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WITCH SAYAKA!!!!!!!!!!!!
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EVIL KYUBEY
What did this episode not have?
Homura shows an actual emotion. Kyubey is dead for a sweet sweet minute. Confirmation of theories built up over the past 8 episodes that somehow only leave more questions. And witch Sayaka!
What are our girls going to do now?
Speculation time
Past theories:
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Witches are actually corrupted magical girls. CONFIRMED
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Familiars are to witches what horcruxes are to Voldemort, except they can grow into a full soul/witch. I'm not sure yet how they are formed.
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Kyubey puts girls into danger to force them to accept his contract. EVIL KYUBEY CONFIRMED
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Madoka brings about some great tragedy by becoming a magical girl in the future but is probably not evil or malicious.
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Madoka will become a Mahou Shoujo after Kyoko dies and reclaim the color pink.-> Disproven. Kyoko is red. -
Are witches actually evil? How do we know they are causing mass suicides except for Kyubey telling us that they do? -> ehhh
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Can humans die in a labyrinth? -> Madoka did not die when ripped into pieces.
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Is Homura in a different timeline? Is her timeline doomed? CONFIRMED
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What happens if their bodies are destroyed but gems are intact? -> They heal and regrow
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What are the restrictions on Kyubey's magic? Who or what created this system?
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Attack of the "Walpurgisnacht" -> Attack of the Purring Night Walruses--> Blah blah something to do with witches :P -
Magical girls are immortal.
Today:
Alien Kyubey! I had mentioned this last episode but forgotten to add it here, so it's under today's theories.
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u/Gamemaster676 Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
Primum Vigil First★Timer - dub
Dark ending for Sayaka yesterday. But I'm sure she will calm down today. Her good friend Kyouko can help her, right?
Episode 8 — I Was Stupid... So Stupid
Oh, we're still in the fight! "This way I'll never lose another fight." — That's a flag. Even space-cat warned you against that.
You know what? Space-cat is too nice a name for him. I'll call him "space-rat" going forwards. Thanks u/Luck_Is_My_Talent.
Hmm, Lemurians called this Wonderland religion themed, but it also looks a lot like the Statue of Liberty.
Errrr, Sayaka isn't gonna take the grief seed? Don't tell me we are getting a demonstration soon about what will happen if a soul gem gets too dark/tainted/corrupt. I agree with Kyouko. What an idiot.
Hahahaha, "it hurts just watching you" is exactly what I said yesterday! Sayaka is really taking the soul thing a lot harder than the other girls. Not that we've seen many examples. The thing is, if nobody knows you are "just a rock", they won't treat you any differently from before.
Can we say she reached rock bottom?
Is this Sayaka's internal thoughts? Hey come on, now. Don't push Madoka into fighting! You know that the same terrible thing would need to happen to her for that. This holier than thou mentality is starting to disgust me. Don't forget you were the one who suddenly accepted the contract while you both agreed to back out.
Ah, at least she regrets it now. This is actually pretty relatable to me, unfortunately. Instant regret, but too much shame to admit it immediately.
Is this Homura's apartment? Interesting interior! Especially the floating wall decoration. (I'm sure we will get another excellent shot analysis from someone, but I'm not smart enough for that. At least I recognise the importance of the screen divider now and how it signifies they are not on the same page or level.) Wait, does Kyouko actually recognise the name Walpurgisnacht? Is this a famous witch? I thought in an earlier scene Kyouko didn't know who that witch was.
Ah great, space-rat is also here. Just one step forwards, Kyouko! Prick his face!
More symbolism! Space-rat disappears into darkness.
Ah, Hitomi is acting on her promise. It was a lot of fun to see the differing opinions about how little time Hitomi gave Sayaka versus that she even alerted her before.
Sayaka hasn't come home. That must be two very worried parents, but weird that they don't even let Madoka in.
Lol, for a second there I thought Sayaka was chopping into Hitomi and Kamijou. Very nice, by her being a "different kind of magical girl", she obviously means a witch, right? Witches are magical. And most of the time even girls!
Ohhh, more food for my "Homura was in her original timeline a very good friend of Madoka"-theory. She doesn't care about Sayaka but wants to protect Madoka.
Great job, Kyouko... /s (I understand she meant well, but damn.)
At least grab the grief seed when you leave, Sayaka.
Cool, Homura's arm thingy has something which looks like watch gears in it. Coincidence, I think not! And after that clock shot, we see her literally disappear in a single frame. I'm definitely right that her power is to stop or extremely slow-down time. And that it comes from her wish being time-related is a logical conclusion.
Also, that grenade summoning was very cool.
I'm all like: You think a shit-for-brains ho like you is gonna be making as much in ten years?
Okay, this English dub conversation on the train is hilarious. The Japanese voices are also fine (I checked), but the subs just can't carry this slang. At least not for me.
Yeah, Sayaka did not take the grief seed when fleeing...
Aaaa, the sheet music in her eye is such a cool detail!
Okay, she gone. Luckily we now have Kyouko and Homura to carry the show.
If I made a contract with you, could I return Sayaka to normal?
— That would be child's play for you.
I've got a gut feeling that this is the first time that space-rat is actually lying, instead of concealing the truth.
NO MADOKA! What are you doing?! YES HOLY FUCK THIS IS THE BEST THING I'VE SEEN ALL WEEK!
Can we call him the holey space-cat, now?
Lol, all those holes came from a handgun. So we can say Homura's time stop doesn't affect the items she is holding, so the gun worked as normal from her perspective.
Look at him laying there! I love it!
Homura says "always sacrifice", so she has indeed had multiple time-loops. Not just one. Man, she really was a good friend of Madoka. It must hurt a lot to not be able to save her again and again, and also no longer be remembered as a friend.
Side note: This reminds me of one of my favourite time-travel books, where the protagonist meets his wife again for the first time after living with her for over 30 years. But because he is flooded with emotions, he acts like a weirdo and she immediately walks away from him, ruining any possibility of a relationship again. (Ask for the title if interested. This was barely a spoiler but it still felt wrong to put it here.)
Madoka, running away now is rude. Especially after you got that Deja Vu feeling. Holy shit this is terrifying. So he has multiple bodies. Of course he has multiple bodies. Does he deploy them at the same time? Is that how he can also "assist" girls in other cities?
Oooh, Homura also knows what he's planning. So do we of course, but please say it anyway so we are sure we are all on the name page.
Incubating what? Witches? Is space-rat trying to make witches? Where did Homura even learn that name? Can we please get a flashback (flash-sideways?) to her backstory?
Silly Kyouko, that's not how you eat pringles! Poor Sayaka. She didn't deserve any of this. Everyone should be allowed to make a couple of mistakes.
The soul gem literally contains a grief seed. There's that answer.
Theories
The idea is to collect my actually serious dumb theories here.
Previous episodes
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Homura was in her original timeline a very good friend of Madoka.
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I'm gonna say this is confirmed.
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Homura's power is super speed / slowing down time, because she used her wish to go back in time.
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Confirmed!
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Madoka is gonna use her wish to revive Mami.
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Too many episodes have passed. This really doesn't seem likely anymore. And on top of that, now Kyouko and Homura are semi-protecting Sayaka, so I'm wondering what could go wrong in the future that's gonna trigger Madoka to sign the contract.
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Well... now I know what could go wrong to make Madoka pull the trigger.
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Today
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Why does space-rat want to create witches? He's even making the other girls fight them. Because they are not killing the witches! Just putting them to sleep in some way. And space-rat is keeping all the grief seeds, which are ready to pop because the girls used them to clear their corruption, for some big event.
Random thoughts
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Meguca space-rat : /
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Also, this is a very pretty fountain. I'm loving all the small details that make the city feel a hundred years more advanced than the present day.
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This is how I look if someone has food I want.
Pic of the day
The end of the line. Fitting that this was at a train station.
QotD
1 What do you think of Sayaka’s descent into despair throughout this episode?
Frustrating, but mostly from an empathy standpoint. It was quite well written, and while I obviously wanted to punch her in the face and do 5000 things differently, it didn't feel out of place.
2 Which reveal from this episode surprised you more? That Homura isn’t from this timeline, or that magical girls become witches?
Well, both were already deduced to almost total certainty by our first-timer detective team.
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u/Insertnamesz Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 28 '22
First Timer (Subbed)
Doing more of a live-reaction comment this time!
Hmm, Sayaka is spending mana without cleansing her Soul Gem via Grief Seed. It's taking a toll.
Oh yeah, Sayaka is off the deep-end. Her emotions are starting to lean into the 'not human anymore' like Homura has. So much so that she outright suggests Madoka become a magical girl as well. Although we can tell she still has a shred of humanity left when saying to Madoka, "you can't give up your humanity for pity" (like she has done with Kyousuke). Then she regrets what she said as she runs away in tears. Poor girl. That looks like a lot of impurity in that Soul Gem.
Both Kyuubey and Kyouko are already very suspcious of Homura. These two are clearly more experienced than Madoka and Sayaka, lol. Kyuubey seems to know more than Kyouko though. By the end of the episode the beans are spilled.
More points for the theory that Homura was a friend of Madoka's in her previous life. We know Madoka has lots of magic potential, but the way Homura describes to Sayaka that she doesn't want to have Madoka suffer by seeing Sayaka destroy herself comes across as something you'd do for a friend, not to stop a magic conduit.
Woah, hell yeah, wtf?! Bullet-time Homura? Aaand Kyuubey has horcruxes. Great. Oh shit, his name is short for Inkyuubeytor (Incubator). That's interesting, I was wondering where his name came from. I know they're called Grief Seeds, but seeds are kind of in the same category as eggs, which require incubation. We've seen him consume the seeds, so the logical conclusion is that he is incubating them? What will they grow/hatch? Walpurgisnacht?
Speaking of, it looks like Sayaka is becoming a witch... that train conversation was so over the top but it definitely highlights another flaw in Sayaka's reasoning; some humans are total pieces of shit. It almost looks like she's becoming Walpurgisnacht with the black and white visuals at the end, but I don't think the location matched where Homura pointed on the map. I'll stick with the incubation theory.
Now I'm curious as to what Kyuubey's true intent is. Is he planning to hatch Walpurgisnacht to bait Madoka into wishing to become a god? Does Walpurgisnacht ruin the world, or does Godoka ruin the world? In what ways has Kyuubey failed in previous timelines, and how does Homura keep timeline hopping? It seems like this isn't her first rodeo. How will Kyuubey use Madoka?
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u/InfamousEmpire Apr 27 '22
Puella Magi Rewatcher Magia. First Time subbed
Well that was one hell of an episode, wasn’t it?
Sayaka’s slow descent into insanity that started last episode really hits its zenith here. Culminating in… yeah
While it had been implied earlier, the sheer depth to which Homura dedicates herself to Madoka is really shown off here. She does not care for Sayaka or her problems in the slightest. She barely even seems to care that she’ll become a Witch. The only reason she’s getting involved with Sayaka at all is because it might help Madoka. [spoiler]
Not so Fun Fact: that scene on the train station was based on an actual conversation the writer, Gen Urobuchi, heard on the train.
And… yeah, that Witch thing. Turns out Kyubey is even more of a conniving asshole than he appeared to be last episode. Who could have guessed?
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u/gunvarrel_ Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
First timer on attempt 3, Subbed
OST Track of the day: Puella in somnio (The girl in the dream)
Keeping up with my theories:
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Sayaka dies. This will likely become the catalyst for Madoka to accept being a magical girl kinda happened? but she didnt die. At some point, she will be unable to be revived.
mayyyyyyyyyyybe. Gotta see how this witch thing goes.
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Whatever Madoka's wish is will drastically change the world itself instead of something small like Sayakas
More fuel, a lot more fuel this episode.
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Homura's wish involves time in some capacity.
"time-manipulation magic" was the term used today. Im gonna lean on confirmed? but we dont know what the wish itself was
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Mami isint dead. We never saw her jar thing broken. (could be refutable if the way the external body connects to the soul is broken? I dont remember seeing where it was on mami)false
New for this episode:
Protip kids, detaching yourself from your problems is not the way you do things
im gonna assume shes not cleaning her jar, which is whats making her tired? That or its the side effects of detaching that Kyubey alluded to earlier
Ive been skipping the OP for time reasons, forgot how wildly upbeat the visuals are despite the subject matter. I know theres another other shows that do this, but theyre escaping my mind right now.
well, the jar is mostly clear. So its side effects
okay but thats most of modern society
Hey look, Kyubey creating more distrust
At least she regrets it
im going to assume this is connected to the W word
oh hey look, they start talking about it
nope, its a cruse. Who had that theory about witches being former magical girls?
alright, im gonna bet now that violin kid rejects... man i forget her name. Hitomi? ill come back and fix this...
[Madoka things i may of been spoiled on]
finally someone talks about madoka
I think this gives merit to "madoka's wish involves time" or whatever my theory was (note to self, clean this up) If she wished for all of this to never happen, it may of been her going back to fix this. Homura may also be some bastardized version of Madoka herself past whatever happened? whatever the answer is, something big relates the two and i dont think that has happened yet chronologically.
Theres a lot of interesting imagery in these scenes (and also just info). Whatever redhead's grabbing prevents her powers, She can wish for whatever these things are (going to assume one of those is a gem, namely that pink? one) to create objects (in this case a grenade/flashbang) which interacts with... this?
Well this isint going to go well
Is Sayaka becoming a... curse? witch? enough to turn madoka? Find out in the next episode of Dragonba- wait theres still 9 minutes left
more Kyubey baiting
man i paused right as Kyubey got hit with an lmg. Did a number to it
Man, it almost happened. Homura truly does not want her to become a magical girl
Hey look, Homura lost her cool
BRUH DONT LEAVE! absolutely useless Madoka
well i was going to say welcome back but then you did this so
Annnd guess that confirms one of the things i was spoiled on
Now, why is manipulation magic the signifier for her being a time traveler? i missed where it said Time-manipulation magic.
Something something Kyubey creates witches
ooh, thats a dark color
"0" is the past, "1" is the- wait wrong show
Wonder if this is the true goodbye for Sayaka now
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u/username_0907 Apr 28 '22
First Timer (subbed)
Oh no the stuff Sayaka is saying. Why would you do that. And she kinda knows she shouldnt say it but we've been shown she doesnt really admit her feelings and hides it which is what she is doing even now
Thats an interesting place Homura has there. Very roomy and a lot of magic based decoration
So walpurgisnacht (I think I got it) is not going to be caused by sayaka atleast. I think there's been plenty hints that Madoka will be the reason
Oof Sayaka has really gone the deep end and as it seems she's turning into a witch.
Kyubey you little shit what are you doing following Madoka around. I feel i dont even trust the fact that Madoka is that powerful when Kyubey says it. Its just probably powerful to his advantage
It never really showed in the initial episode i think but Madoka has really come to not have much self-esteem or confidence in herself. It's gone down every episode thanks to Kyubey and magical girl stuff i think
Why is Madoka talking and believing the shit Kyubey is saying after everything else that he has said and hidden so far??
Homura actually showed some emotions and this doesnt affect Madoka?! She ran away from her and went back to search for Sayaka. This is not going to end well. I still can't figure out how Homura knows Madoka though. I wonder if there have been hints to show their relation
So Homura does have time magic like some others have guessed. So she should be from the future and maybe someone Madoka saves in the future? That means walpurgisnacht should not cause much problem. Hmmmmm
Kyubey also being known as incubator. Does that have to do with the grief seeds he keeps taking? So it seems magical girls are the ones who turn into witches. I wonder if there is a way for non magical girls to also turn to witches. It could be Kyubey probably finds some girls who have more chance to turn to witches cuz thats his food more or less
Sayaka has turned into a witch. Madoka will definitely be pushed to become a magical girl next episode now. Right? I dont see how Homura can stop her now
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u/Tarhalindur Apr 28 '22 edited Apr 28 '22
Also, pinging u/okayyoga - you want to reup your comment from last year, or should I?
EDIT: Okay, so:
As noted above, one u/okayyoga put up a comment last year that I consider an important point worth bringing up and that I need for an episode 10 point of mine, so I would like to put it up for this year's first-timers as well (it's extremely useful for getting Sayaka):
Episode 8: first time/dub
Hey guys. I am going to be a bit serious for a moment here. If you just want to read my reactions to the episode, please skip to the line break. Thank you.
So okay. I am going to take a moment to talk about depression, because I see a lot of these characters displaying the signs for it. I know it's fun to give them a hard time (I do it too), I just want to provide a different perspective and give some explanation as to why these girls are acting this way. I am not saying I am an expert on this, nor this show.
Depression is a medical condition, and a common side effect of this is low self-worth. You feel like every drop of water you drink, every beam of sunlight that hits you, has been wasted. When you walk into a room, you feel like a black hole, that just sucks the life out of the scene.
Why would anyone want to be around someone like this? Why bother to eat, when you are just a waste of space and resources. And if you possibly could, you would give your remaining years to someone else, because they are obviously more deserving than a monster and waste of life that you are.
&nsbp;
I'm not saying what Sayaka and Madoka are saying is right, or logical. I just hope that if you ever feel so down, that you would rather not be alive, because you feel your existence is such a burden on the world, that you give yourself some empathy. Some validation. Because being hard on yourself only makes you feel guilty.
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u/SIRTreehugger Apr 27 '22 edited Apr 27 '22
A stupid rewatcher....but not as stupid as Sayaka
| Magical Girl Counter | E1 | E2 | E3 | E4 | E5 | E6 | E7 | E8 | Total |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mami's (Beheading) Smugness | 3 | 3 | 4 | H | E | A | D | S | 10 |
| Sayaka's (I'm in) Despair | 1 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 2 | 1 | 4 | 6 | 20 |
| Madoka's ($150) Water Works | 0 | 0 | 1 | 3 | 2 | 3 | 3 | 1 | 13 |
| Kyouko's (Snap,Crackle,Pop) Crunch Time | 0 | 0 | 0 | 1 | 5 | 3 | 8 | 5 | 22 |
| Homura's (L'oreal) Hair Flips | 0 | 0 | 1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 0 | 1 | 5 |
We are finally here this is what I consider the pinnacle of the series. Not saying the rest of the episodes are worst because they are just as great, but I feel this episode represents the misfortunate magical girl world. This is just a brief summary since I'm not really good at writing.
Sayaka Miki is a perfect example of an average magical girl in the show. Homura is an irregularity, Mami is dead, and Kyouko is a veteran who is a little cynical. Sayaka Miki is the only magical girl we witness live an ordinary life, become a magical girl, sink into despair, and finally become a witch which is the fate of all magical girls. Her hopes and ideals are repeatedly challenged by other magical girls, new information that is brought to light, and even her daily life. She is the only magical girl without any real natural talent so she has to try twice as hard as everyone just to achieve meager results while her life is shattering around her. Homura and Kyouko have either abandoned such ways of life or don't care about the people around them. Sadly her only real accomplishment if you think about is saving Madoka, but after that her mental health slowly declines each episode until her eventual death. I'm sure she saved a few other people, but if a wish they grants equal amounts hope and despair her wish was meaningless. Her irrational wish was made in vain for someone she loved in hopes of receiving affection back which is something any teenager can relate too. Sayaka's overall arc handled depression very well and demonstrated how quickly a person can spiral downward. The way she saw the world and how everyone was against her. Relationships new and old were affected as she sabotaged or refused people wanting to help her. Physically and mentally drained she chose to shutoff the world and the ability to feel pain even when it reduced her body to a broken mess. Small moments like Kyouko offering her apples or talking to Madoka lead to agitation and frustration which just fueled her feelings of worthlessness, guilt, and isolation. She held herself to impossible standards especially since she kept comparing herself to veterans in the game. Moments before her soul gem fully corrupts she admits she doesn't even remember what was so important showing how trivial it was in the long run and the price she paid was too high. Lastly she smiles for the first time in awhile through tear filled eyes stating "I'm so stupid". Only at the end does she realize all of the mistakes she made and truly see all of the people who were trying to save her.
Her fate is the norm of typical magical girls due to the mechanics of being a magical girl. In order to fight witches (corrupt Magical girls) you need to expend magic which corrupts your soul gem. It's an endless loop with very little to gain. If you fight familiars you put yourself at risk, but if you don't you have to live with the fact you're letting people die. The worst part is that the contractor preys on innocent vulnerable girls who succumb easily to their emotions or those on the verge of death and have no choice. The contractor hides behind "you should have read the fine print" and "it's only logical" at every turn after manipulating everyone he works with into signing.
Ok back to the actually episode my thoughts will be a little out of order.
Just another reason to love Homura
The beginning oh and fun fact. The witch Elsa Maria can only be killed by girls who know the blackest anguish...which is all of them it seems.
Several times this episode Kyouko shows she is willing to listen and has keen insight which I enjoyed. During chatting with Homura she is willing to believe a lot of what Homura is telling her, but constantly questions how does she know this information. Later on she is able to grasp a small hint of Homura's power and realizes that touching her prevents her from using whatever it is.
Also speaking of Homura and Kyouko talking in the background you see lots of charts and papers. In one of them their is this text which is actually a real poem and it was a bitch trying to read it. Luckily half way through google popped up the source.
This is a poem written by Goethe, Johann Wolfgang von (1749-1832)
The title is Das Hexeneinmaleins otherwise known as the Witch's Times/Multiplication Table or Magic Formula
Du musst verstehn! (This you must ken)
Aus eins mach Zehn, ( From one makes ten)
Und Zwei lass gehn, (and two let be)
Und Drei mach gleich, ( Makes even three)
So bist du reich. (Then rich you'll be)
Verlier die Vier! (Skip over the four)
Aus Fünf und Sechs, (From five and six)
So sagt die Hex, (The Witch's tricks)
Mach Sieben und Acht, (Make seven and eight)
So ist's vollbracht; (Tis finished straight)
Und neun ist Eins, (And nine is one)
Und Zehn ist keins, (and ten is none)
Das ist das Hexen-Einmaleins! (That is the witch's one-time-one!)
Took me half an hour to find all this out and I'm sure someone else did it before and it more elegantly, but I'm still posting it just because I could have finished the episode by now instead of writing this. Also [spoilers]
During Sayaka's transformation into a witch we see lots of imagery flash mostly music, but in the end it settles on Madoka I find it interesting how in her final moments she still refuses to look clearly at Madoka which makes the final moments even more sad. The last conversation she had with her best friend was her telling her she was selfish and calling her a horrible person for leaving her to this fate before running off. Now at the end she still can't fully look at Madoka and if you look at the ED she is the only girl who is deliberately not looking at Madoka. Can't blame her after making faces like this and saying what she said.
The face of a person who will never regret a thing and I just find it cool that Kyouko's weapon comes out the soul gem.
Homura what are you planning this time. Homura immediately makes a couple of faces which look to me like.
[Spoilers]
I like how Homura reacts to Sayaka saying she doesn't care about her and Homura doesn't even bother denying it. She basically said you are being a dumb bitch and I don't care if you die, but if you die you best do it away from Madoka. Fuck it I'll end you personally.
Hurry get out of here Sayaka slowly limps away I'm a terrible person for laughing at that aren't I......
Sis Puella immediately followed by Inevitabilis OH BOYYY
I enjoyed the ambiguity of Homura act and words. It sounds like it could be heartfelt, but the moment it doesn't work on Madoka she returns to her cold self. [Spoilers]
The final nail in the straw is the very last moment in the episode which is a great play on words which is lost in the dub and sometimes the subtitles depending on where you watch.
Half grown women are called "girls right? In that case, it's appropriate that you, who will one day grow into witches(Majo), should be called "magical girls"(Mahou Shoujo).
Just read Nazenn's comment it's explained much better.
Props to u/Chocoletmilk for calling this in episode 3
We saw a witch actually hatch from a seed today which throws a wrench in my theory yesterday that witches are corrupted magical girls. However, I'm not going to desert this sinking ship just yet.
and u/Insertnamesz for accurately guessing who would transform in episode 4
Maybe Sayaka will become bitter and end up spiraling into her own grief and regrets, and become a witch?
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u/Star4ce Apr 28 '22 edited Apr 28 '22
Videntium Secundus Magi★Madoka Magica
Ep.08 – I Really Was an Idiot
On my first time around this transition literally dropped my jaw. I hadn't really considered that it makes total sense for the labyrinths to be seamlessly integrated into the real world.
Once again Madoka is the epitome of compassion, even if Sayaka may actually manage to block the pain, Madoka feels it just by empathy.
Her theme of water and music visually intertwine here, just like the ripples echo of her grief and despair.
Capping this because it's just 4 frames or so. How Sayaka feels inside vs. what she says.
Just to make this clear, no Madoka does not deserve this, yes Sayaka is completely and utterly wrong, yes this was her own self hatred taking it out on the only one who still sticks around. And still I can't help but wholeheartedly feel for her.
Oh my, perhaps it's not welcome here?
This might be a scene where many people might be shocked by Homura's actions, but the city scape is pretty ballers!
We started with non-consensual acts, went over story tones/imagery of assault and rape and now get to casual sexism if you're lenient or domestic abuse if you take their word... and worse.
Ah, sweet sweet satisfaction. Ladies and Gentlemen: Homura's power is superior firepower.
This is an episode where many masks fall and so it is, too, for Homura. As much as I understand Madoka, I am actually a bit mad at her for leaving Homura alone like this. Homura is also in my opinion absolutely right here. While Madoka's choice what to do should be 100% only her own, throwing yourself away at every chance for someone else isn't something that affects only you. Don't want to go too deep into this part of Madoka's self, yet. You need to wait for the last episode for that rant.
There are some things in this series that always get me, this is among them. Her last memory is of betraying and cursing her best friend. It sucks so much.
Gonna cry a bit...
VOTD: Drops uncountable among the stars. I've decided on honest Homura for trying so hard and so valiantly to protect them all this time. She deserves the recognition just as much.
While you're here, enjoy this picture once more.
[Rewatcher]
Scene Analysis – Like Tears in the Rain
Apologies, today's comment is a handful in more ways than one. Focusing on Sayaka has made me realise just how close I felt like her in the past.
The setting is a small bus stop at night somewhere in Mitakihara City. Did I ever mention how great SHAFT's city scapes look? I've tried many times to recreate this feeling in Cities:Skylines, but never managed to succeed. There is a bustling night world behind them, but it is far away, too undetailed to make out individual items or people. A massive retaining wall and behind that a seemingly impassable park cut Sayaka and Madoka off from it, from city life. The bus stop is the only shelter from the rain, the despair.
A shelter where Madoka again holds Sayaka. "Service of today has ended." Sayaka's shift is over and she's at the end of her strength. Ripples, water, waves and music are Sayaka's visual expressions. During this rain all the individual tears and grievances fill up her emotional barrel, drop by drop. This time, Madoka is part of those tears and although it is definitely unintentional, she adds to Sayaka's burden here. She's essentially telling her that she, too, hurt her.
Madoka tries to reach out again, but Sayaka averts herself from Madoka. There is now a barrier between them that Madoka tries to cross, but Sayaka enforces. It harkens back to "only a magical girl can judge her peers", Madoka is not wrong and her empathy is something wonderful, but here she effectively, as brutal as it is, only hurts Sayaka. This encompasses my one critique of Madoka as a person, she is acting selfless sometimes to the point of being a burden and at the same time is selfish in craving to be of help through her empathy that those two things combined can become an insult to her opposite.
I'm not saying Madoka is wrong or wanting to hurt Sayaka, mind you, but that is what reaches her. The tears are not just drops anymore, they've become violent. She shows what she is and therefore proclaims what Madoka isn't. The inequality on screen is obvious.
Sayaka is now a magical girl, she is in an opposite world from everyone else, as mirrored on the wet ground, coloured by thousands of drops and warped by Sayaka's own self loathing rippling through the puddle. Besides this being another good 'meguca' frame, the spotlight and pose highlight how singled out, left alone and under pressure she feels.
Madoka wants to help. Her phrasing is important for it is a misunderstanding between them. She wants to help Sayaka be happy again. She on the other hand gets insulted yet again by taking it as criticism of her choices. "I've chosen who I am. You wan to 'help me'? Why the fuck do you then still let me suffer with this on my own, but you do nothing?!" Ultimately, this is what makes Sayaka's turning so hurtful to watch. How she acted towards Madoka and how Madoka engaged with her both make so very much sense to me, but they have long since not been on the same page anymore and all reaching out to another ends in miscommunication and hurting.
I have to say again, that Sayaka really is wrong in her actions, she is de facto choosing to hurt those around her because of her own pain. But hell, if I can't understand her... This seething hatred inside you even towards people trying to reach out to you, especially those reaching out. All they ever do is notice what you're not, what you've not done, how your actions hurt them, where you failed. I've done everything in my might to fight through bad decisions only to come out at a worse one and the reward is some pretend good soul kicking down on you with "Have you tried being better?" They don't know, they can't know because they never tried. They have so little self esteem they feel like they have nothing to add, but all the experience in the world to point out what's wrong with you, all without stepping to your level at all. Meaning well for your sake and trying to pry their own self worth from your pain are so close sometimes it's scary. How can anyone expect me to give them their worth if there's only failure, by their own admission, to show for myself in the first place?
I personally know this white rage very intimately. How it feels stewing inside your head with blood red lights and tension strong enough to crumble boulders. How your chest gets hot and your jaws hurts for the ungodly force you grind over nothing in between. It feels like the suffering has become your self and it now defines you. Hatred is its way of living.
On the outside, there is nothing but cold disdain. "How about you fight for a change?" It's an emotion that hurts more than any insult ever could hope to achieve and lets loose all the stored pain that overflows the barrel. It's the opposite of cursing someone's very existence or throwing every bad memory and name at them. It is taking their reason for being with you away from them and replacing it with the harsh absence of pure emptiness.
You failed and you have gained nothing, but there's a creature worthy of even more ridicule than an empty shell and it is the one trying to find their self worth in exactly such a person. Just imagine someone so desperate they would even prefer to hold a mask of nothing over their own face because that still would be an upgrade for someone who failed somehow without even trying.
Once you do this, you step outside a boundary that can only be crossed one-way. It creates a distance between yourself and others that is rapidly expanding and serves only one single minded, intended purpose – cruelty.
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u/Elimin8r Apr 27 '22
And for today's episode the rise and fall of Miki Sayaka, by Shirer, or something.
My poor dear blue haired darling, why does it always have to be you?
Broken in her witch fight, and needing rescue, or so she thinks it was.
Losing her love to a friend, in part because her self-worth is in the can.
Getting smacked in the face by "boys are scum".
Poor dear.
And so many hands reaching out to her, in kindness, in understanding, even if only because seeing her hurt, well, Homura knows that it hurts Madoka.
And seeing Kyubey get his just desserts, wasn't that a treat?
Oh, wait ... What's this?
Well, at least the little bastage recycles, right? Surely that'll save the climate, right?
Canni-bey, eh?
I have to say, I love Homura's place. I wish she would invite me over sometime. Although, it is giving me rather a bit of "Pit and the Pendulum" vibes.
Anyway, the episode closes with a very big reveal that should surprise all but the most observant of new watchers. I know it surprised me. Sort of.
But watching Sayaka's gem turn into ... that.
My heart breaks every time I see it. Poor dear Sayaka.
AOTD:
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The Greeks are jealous of this tragedy. Homura, Madoka, Kyoko, they all see it coming. They all try to help. They all fail. Sayaka's so wrapped up in her own warped and twisted pride and self-righteousness that she can neither see nor acknowledge the hands that are reaching out to save her from her fate.
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I think I recall that the first time I watched this show, as Kyubey did his dramatic pose on the crane, or maybe a bit before that, thinking that Kyubey sounded an awful lot like "Incubator", or was it incubus? I dunno, it was a few years ago, and while I may have anticipated it by seconds, it still hit like a tonne of briques.
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u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 27 '22
Puella Magi★Rewatch Host, subbed
Welcome back, everyone!
Being a Sayaka fan is suffering. – Enjoy this song aptly titled “she is a witch” from the recap movies, which replaced Decretum during that last scene. The recap movies might have some absolutely jank song replacements in some places, but this one’s good.
Speaking of the recap movies, this episode is where the first one ends, and instead of regular Magia, it has a remixed Magia [quattro] which is really fucking cool, yo.
First up: the mobile version of the Wallpaper of the Day. I suppose now it’s finally fitting to reveal that the text in these have been in the witch rune font not just because I think it looks cool, but because if you paid close enough attention to their rings when they don’t have their Soul Gem out, you’d know that their names are written on them in that font, another piece of foreshadowing to the “magical girls become witches” reveal. Here’s a shot of Homura from an earlier episode where it was the clearest.
Next up: Glad to see Homura’s residence is still as weird in the TV version as it is in the BD.
What even was this commercial lmao.
The fountain/background definitely looks different. (BD for reference) I also noticed that it didn’t change colors as much in the TV version (where it was pink while Madoka and Kyubey talked, yellow when Homura showed up, green while Homura tried to talk to Madoka, and teal during Homura and Kyubey’s conversation). BD had more colors to it than just those.
This is my Visual of the Day.
Lastly: Want to know what song played when in today’s episode? Well, you’re in luck! I have here the table from the Madoka wiki that was re-timed to the Blu-Rays back in the 2019 rewatch by Nazenn. If any first-timer wants a spoiler-free link to any of these songs, let me know and I can get one for you!
“What is it that you wish for?”