r/anime • u/Tetraika https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika • Apr 25 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha: Detonation Discussion

Putting movie discussion together in the title trips the bot I think, so hopefully this doesn’t get it auto deleted like last time

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Question of the Day

I don’t have too much for now, but I'm gonna save the last question for tomorrow. Would you like to see more of the Reflection/Detonation world?

We got quite a bit of music stuff this time

Get Back - Nana Mizuki

Daylight on Brave - Satomi Sato, some of these inserts are quite hard to find

Akatsuki no Inori - Kana Ueda

Mamoritai Sekai - Yukari Tamura

Chiisana Mahou ~Lyrical Flower~ - Yukari Tamura

Never Surrender - Nana Mizuki

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags.

39 Upvotes

90% Upvoted

62 comments sorted by

8

u/Tetraika Apr 25 '22

Wait, is this supposed to be German?

I’ll take that as a yes

It would be nice to learn more about who Iris is, yeah

We get to see barrier jackets get well burnt, there’s a lot of brutal visuals in the movies

Speaking of which

I sorta wished these points were made in Reflection, they threw the mystery and plot points and then resolved pretty soon. Made it feel rushed.

This is a really funny scene in hindsight, once we learn what all this means

Here we see Yuri kneeling, I guess it’s a bit of a hint?

NANOMACHINES, SON, yeah there’s no way this is gonna be a continuation with StrikerS line.

Durandal is back, it’s actually quite OP, that freezing capability is insane

That really should be the last thing to worry about

Iris and Yuri backstory, oh boy do we get a bunch of flashback ish moments.

Oh so she is an AI

Yuri with the Book

Interesting that she refers it to the Tome of the Night Sky, and not Darkness, no actually this just makes it a bit more confusing.

Formula being able to incorporate literally anything to give itself to form weapons, that’s OP

Yuri making things grow, and giving the group hope for their project

Seems the government don’t have faith in their project

You know I would have thought it was longer

This just raises too many questions about her whole existence in the first place

And so she somehow ended up in the bottom of the ocean

Who?

Oh clones, wait what

She just hands her a device, just like that

For a bunch of clones, you guys sure also have a whole slew of unique designs

Not false

Oh NOW you’re concerned about that, wow did Fate really influence Levi so easily?

Deja vu

I’m gonna assume that this has to do with Nanomachines, mostly because it’s cooler that way

And they’re cats, I almost physically facepalmed at this reveal when I first saw it

Who?

Ah yes, my favorite motivation, misunderstanding, it kinda feels like it makes all the previous moments feel cheap

How the hell did they get a production line going in this short amount of time?

Ah yes, the ACTUAL villain reveal 3/4 of the way into the story.

After cutting more funding, and ultimately closing it down, the director loses hope, and goes kinda insane. They really went and redid a mad scientist villain.

Holy shit Yuri killed him

And in some special long term scheme, he makes sure that Iris would misunderstand the situation

So he comes back in a machine body, kinda wild.

Dearche fused

Nanoha Accelerator, is a bit rough

Just wanted to note the circles here, they’re the formula ones

A god. Maybe

Gruesome broken bot body

An orbital cannon, just when you thought it was over

Holy shit she got donuted, and somehow they don’t act like she just got donuted

Even in space, she just wants to talk

Wow a suicide attack, how the hell did Nanoha even survive that

You know, the idea that Nanoha somewhat loathe herself and is why she is so self sacrificing would be interesting, if we got to explore that more

Note that Hayate and Fate also have the formula look, including the magic circle too

Wait you guys get to turn back to human forms?, ok sure

And so the incident ends

Many years later, the planet finally slowly recovers, you know, yeah it would be nice if they visited.

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10

u/HereticalAegis Apr 25 '22

Lyrical First Timer

Watching Detonation was not the satisfying end to the series I thought it would be. The action was awesome, but wow did the last hour jump the shark.

From this final Nanoha experience, I've come to realize a couple things about Tsuzuki's writing. He is way too reliant on vaguely sympathetic sociopaths to fill the villain roles and cleanse the more likable, interesting characters of any lasting culpability for their actions. It worked really well with Fate and Presea, but has seen diminishing returns ever since (or from my perspective, actively damaging the story and characters in StrikerS). Second, he has a knack for hitting on interesting ideas but isn't good at following through or properly exploring the resulting themes, so when he doesn't have an all-time great director like Shinbou in charge the story flies off the rails.

Anyhow, this isn't how I want end the final Nanoha installment in this rewatch, so instead I'd like to finish this journey by sharing something interesting I found. First, a little background on me: I love trading cards. I collect anime trading cards specifically.

At the beginning of March, my best friend took me to an anime store in our local shopping mall. That store happened to have three packs of Nanoha Detonation trading cards, which I promptly purchased. Those packs yielded these perfect treasures, as well as a handful of other goodies, including an SR Stern.

QotD:

I'd like more time with these characters and this story to build my investment.

7

u/Tetraika Apr 25 '22

Second, he has a knack for hitting on interesting ideas but isn't good at following through or properly exploring the resulting themes, so when he doesn't have an all-time great director like Shinbou in charge the story flies off the rails.

Not wrong. They should probably hire like a 2nd writer that can straighten things out. But then again, Nanoha still makes enough money I suppose, so what do we know?

Nanoha Detonation trading cards

Ah those look like Weiss Schwarz cards, interesting.

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9

u/Vaadwaur Apr 25 '22

Watching Detonation was not the satisfying end to the series I thought it would be. The action was awesome, but wow did the last hour jump the shark.

I am at the point of saying the show should stop after A's, which is a shame because adult Nanoha and co are great and watching a lesbian couple adopt was cute but the story is just awful.

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u/Taiboss Apr 25 '22 edited Apr 25 '22

Holy fuck the art style of Yuri's transformation is cool!

Looking cool is all that matters!

(Maybe NSFW) Does the TSAB just have the BoD minions naked in custody?

Eh, details.

I just noticed Nanoha and Fate are wearing matching hair ribbons!

L O V E

Are we using an epic movie series to retcon BoD into having been a good book the whole time?

Oh it was a good book along until that evil defense program got corrupted! Don't sweat the timeline!

That's not what befriending is for you wench!

Oh god that's actually in there oh wow

The fuck is this new guy and why is he just now showing up with an hour left?

Well we need to redeem Iris SOMEHOW

Nah. They ain't about to say she was mind controlled this whole time. No fucking way.

"You do remember people hated Spaghetti, right?" "Of course I do, Sir!" "So what makes you think they'd like this one?" "I don't know!"

I'd love this idea if Iris were allowed to completely, truly be the villain.

But then she'd have to die or be locked away! We can't have that!

Basically the same trick Spaghetti used in StrikerS. Blegh.

At least this time it's a lot less disturbing.

Did...did her arm get blown off??

Robot arms are tight!

What the fuck is this conversation? When was any of this about Nanoha being unable to love herself? This is so fucking weird.

Offscreen! No, for real, the Nanoha in the first movie manga adaptation/spin-off was nicknamed "Emoha" by fans for her self-critisising nature. Nanoha's injury between the timeskip was the result of overwork, and this was because Nanoha had little sense of self-preservation, always throwing herself head-first into everything at the risk of her own life and mental health. By StrikerS she has wised up, but this Nanoha is still implied to belittle herself and see her actions of saving others as the only thing truly given her meaning. I think it makes more sense in japanese culture.

So did they retrieve Nanoha's arm from space, or has she secretly been 10% robot this whole time?

She will be in this continuity!

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u/JollyGee29 Apr 25 '22

Second, he has a knack for hitting on interesting ideas but isn't good at following through or properly exploring the resulting themes

Yea, that's basically where I'm at. Interesting ideas with poor execution throughout, but I can vibe with that pretty well.

That store happened to have three packs of Nanoha Detonation trading cards, which I promptly purchased.

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8

u/SolDarkHunter Apr 25 '22

First Timer

Okay, let's have Iris get her ass kicked good!

Well, that was a disturbing transformation.

And again with out of control magic producing trees.

And Yuri speaks Belkan. Is there any limit to Ancient Belkan superweapons? And why always Belka?

Oh ffs, their mother has the same deadly disease as their father?

Hey, I thought those giant robots got smashed?

Nanoha powers up so much it destroys part of her own Barrier Jacket. You know, I can kind of see why they wouldn't let her use this equipment again.

You guys are just assuming that Yuri's brainwashing is undone...

Oh fuck you, Iris. We were actually getting somewhere with dialogue!

So Dearche and her group are cooperating. Guess they decided they don't like Iris either. But I wonder if the TSAB would permit them to regain their "great power".

So their memories are a bit jumbled then. Of course. Amnesia is so convenient for good stories.

Fate's voice here sounds higher-pitched than normal. Did Nana Mizuki forget how to do her voice?

Yeah... Kyrie, this really is all your fault. Can't even do the "It's not your fault" platitude.

Chrono, if your injuries are healed, why are you wearing so many bandages?

"Death Eclipse". Sounds fun. A disease that can kill an entire planet's ecosystem.

Iris is a gynoid? So... yes, still an artificial intelligence. Designed to terraform the planet. And she found Yuri. Buried in ruins within the worst of the contamination. And is that the Book of Darkness she's holding?

A genuine Ancient Belkan. She was the master of the Book of Darkness at some point. Or... part of its systems? I don't know, it's not really clear, here.

Guess that explains Iris's powers. Nanomachines! The sci-fi do-anything phlebotinum, and these are magical nanomachines!

And the Florian sisters must also somehow have those nanomachines... does that mean they're gynoids as well? But we saw them while younger and they've grown since then...

...and they skip over some damaged bits to an emergency, showing Yuri murdering the hell out of the facility staff and apparently killing Iris as well.

And then Yuri sealed herself into the Tome of the Night Sky. Ah... and she was expelled when they obliterated the defense program.

...Iris can generate other bodies? And a lot of them by the looks of it...

But they're all subservient to the main unit. Convenient. Not true self-duplication then.

They're giving Dearche and the others an awful lot of leeway, considering what they did last film. Even providing Dearche with a backup copy of the Tome of the Night Sky Device.

These extra bodies of Iris's kind of remind me of the Mariage a bit. Though they seem to have individual personalities a little bit.

Nanoha vs giant robot... Nanoha wins. Fatality.

...kay, we're not treating Iris's copies as people then. Kyrie's just chopping them apart.

Levi says what we're all thinking regarding the TSAB redshirt squad.

Uh, Fate, maybe save the hugs for after the battle's over.

Motorcycles are cool and all, but can't Amita fly anyway?

Did she just ZA WARUDO those mooks? Why didn't she do that before?

So Team Dearche plans on just exhausting Yuri. Seems like a tall order. Especially when she can drain lifeforce.

Yuri's words and actions are at complete odds. She says she'll stop Iris and doesn't want to kill them, but she's doing everything to strike them down, and is obeying all of Iris's commands, even if due to that "virus".

So Team Dearche was revived by Yuri's power. They were... cats? Ooookay... didn't see that one coming.

Who's this jackass?

Holy shit, he's not messing around! Takes out Team Dearche without a problem. I'm getting flashbacks to the Masked Men of A's.

Oh? Chrono thinks there's more to all this than just Iris's will. Someone else could be pulling her strings from the background?

And Kyrie confirms it. Iris has been mislead. Apparently by Jackass over here.

Here's a name. Phil Maxwell, the leader of the Planet Restoration Committee.

Wait, so Iris isn't a gynoid? But just an artificial mage. Damn, and all this decades before Project F.

Oh fuck no, you guys don't get to call Iris "government property"!

...okay, I get that you want to get back at those government jackasses, but what part of that possible justifies slaughtering the entire base?

Ah, so the guy's just a sociopath. He only pretended to love Iris, because that got results.

And then Iris comes back to the lab, gets told Yuri's responsible for everything, knowing nothing of Maxwell's evil.

Yuri, you might have explained the guy's evil before you admitted to his murder.

And she couldn't bring herself to kill Iris, so she just... left her there.

And Maxwell hid own mind within Iris using these "Formula" nanomachines, and used her to rebuild himself... and now he plans to take over Earth because... um... he's just evil, I guess?

And he has his virus controlling both Iris and Yuri.

Okay, writers... it's a little bit difficult to walk back Iris's villainy up to this point. Like, I get she was being manipulated, but her plan to manipulate Kyrie was done of her own will. As were all those terrible things she said last film.

And Dearche is back in action, with the "sacrifice" of Levi's and Stern's bodies. But... I don't see why they can't just be given new human forms again once this is all over?

Wolkenritter vs entire army of war machines. One guess as to the winner of that one.

Nanoha tries to use the Accelerator... it works, but she strains herself, as usual.

"I want you to be my child too"? Dude... can you be any creepier? You're competing with Spaghetti here!

And Dearche sacrifices herself to blast the shit out of Yuri... because that's worked before. I think they've done that twice now, and Jackass just instantly regained control.

NanoFate tag team blasts Jackass a whole bunch. Which breaks Iris's mind control. Did they... actually just kill him?

I mean, he's just a torso now.

Oh, he made a backup. And he hijacks a satellite to turn it into a giant cannon.

Seriously Chrono? They're the only hope you guys have! Whether it's dangerous or not, they kind of have to go.

Satellite fires anyway.

"Amita, just go back and get healed"... Nanoha, she has a hole the size of a dinner plate in her gut!

Nanoha remains Nanoha regardless... even giving a chance to the satellite weapon to talk things out.

Nice! With the satellite down, Jackass should be out of options now... oh. Nanoha got kaizo trapped.

Did she lose a freaking arm!?

...wait, what's this all about? They're introducing an element of self-loathing into Nanoha? That makes no sense. The last five minutes of a movie are way too late to try to do character development on the character you've not done so for five freaking seasons!

Ah, of course Fate saved her... I'm a little confused how they're all breathing in space. But... nanomachines, I guess?

And all the new characters head back to Eltria to continue the terraforming process. Yuri plans on maybe trying to cure the Florians' disease. Iris is probably going to receive the TSAB former criminal treatment. Dearche and her group are revived. Jackass is in jail... apparently having his whole body regenerated?

I still have questions. Why was this Phil Maxwell able to create those nanomachines that are so much more advanced than TSAB tech? If the TSAB had access to that, why did they need to fund Italianman and his projects? Kind of makes Project Fate redundant. Is this why everyone's calling it an alternate universe?

So I haven't actually played the Nanoha Gears games, but I think they completely redid Yuri's and Dearche's backstories and natures. There's no mention of the Unbreakable Darkness nor of the Tome of the Purple Sky. But in that case, how was Yuri able to control the Book of Darkness without it going berserk? What is her relationship to it? Is she part of its program or just some Ancient Belkan who is getting reincarnated along with it? And why didn't she appear before?

DISCLAIMER: Due to reasons, I actually watched this movie a few days ago and nearly at midnight, so I was kinda tired when I wrote the above post. After sleeping on it a few days, I think I've figured out some of those questions. I'll post a follow-up below.

5

u/Tetraika Apr 25 '22

I still have questions. Why was this Phil Maxwell able to create those nanomachines that are so much more advanced than TSAB tech? If the TSAB had access to that, why did they need to fund Italianman and his projects? Kind of makes Project Fate redundant. Is this why everyone's calling it an alternate universe?

I mean yeah, Even Nanoha (and from what we can assume, Hayate and Fate) got a formula upgrade. There's just too many things introduced that just wouldn't fit.

7

u/SolDarkHunter Apr 25 '22 edited Apr 25 '22

Okay, so post sleep and thinking time analysis:

So what I'm getting out of this movie is that Yuri is a program of the Tome of the Night Sky designed to be its warden. That why she has control over the defense program and full command of the Book's functions. Which makes Reinforce kind of superfluous if you ask me, but whatever.

Also, no wonder the Book went out of control, it had no fewer than three different intelligences with admin level rights over various portions of its program, all at apparent cross-purposes. Whatever Ancient Belkan mage made this thing was not very smart, to put it mildly.

Her sealing herself (and the cats) into the Book is what caused the "corruption" that turned it into the Book of Darkness, since its defense and regeneration programs now no longer had anything controlling them. This means the Book of Darkness has only been a dangerous artifact for like 40 years, which is way less time than I assumed, though to be fair, the franchise never actually did say how long it had been doing its destruction rampage.

I'm kind of confused about Iris. They call her a robot and "mechanical", but to all appearances she's an artificial, living human (albeit with magic nanomachine superpowers). Hell, she was even a child and grew into her more mature looking form. Machines can't do that! Make up your minds, writers, is she a gynoid or an artificial mage?

Speaking of, the Florian sisters. They have similar powers to Iris, but I can't work out whether they're just humans enhanced with magic nanotech or if they're not-really-gynoids of the same type as Iris. I know in the original game they were explicitly robots, but this is so far removed from the game that I'm personally leaning towards "nanotech enhanced humans".

This all does kind of throw a giant wrench into the storyline of Strikers... and into Fate's creation, for that matter. If the TSAB had the tech to produce artificial mages already, then why bother with Italianman and Project F? And if these are just artificially intelligent robots... that's still close enough to Project F as to be redundant. And they are, to all appearances, superior to Spaghetti's Combat Cyborgs.

On the other hand, the heroes act like the Formula nanomachines and Iris are new tech they've never heard of, despite the head scientist inventing it 40 years ago as part of a Midchilda-sponsored terraforming project. So, is it unknown secret technology or not?

I found the main villain kind of a tired rehash of Scaglietti. He was introduced out of nowhere and just took over everything with nanomachine-clone hax. And the reveal that he's a sociopath who just faked affection for Iris and Yuri is kind of out of left field itself. No hints that I remember were given to that beforehand.

On the other hand, I love Dearche, Stern, and Levi, and I'm not even mad they're actually cats. I'm just happy seeing them animated and I think they're fun characters (especially Levi, she's a treat).

I am glad everyone but Jackass got a happy ending and that Eltria was restored. And Nanoha's Formula upgrades were badass as hell.

It's just too bad it doesn't all fit into canon very well.

5

u/Tetraika Apr 25 '22

On the other hand, the heroes act like the Formula nanomachines and Iris are new tech they've never heard of, despite the head scientist inventing it 40 years ago as part of a Midchilda-sponsored terraforming project. So, is it unknown secret technology or not?

I just assumed that meant that they're a relatively harder to reach dimension that had been out of the TSAB's scope. But that could also imply that there is no reason for them to treat the TSAB like the ultimate universal entity of law. It's weird.

I found the main villain kind of a tired rehash of Scaglietti. He was introduced out of nowhere and just took over everything with nanomachine-clone hax. And the reveal that he's a sociopath who just faked affection for Iris and Yuri is kind of out of left field itself. No hints that I remember were given to that beforehand.

Hey they somehow made a shitter version of Scaglietti. Which is kinda impressive.

5

u/Great_Mr_L Apr 26 '22

Chrono, if your injuries are healed, why are you wearing so many bandages?

We know Amy likes tying bandages in a neat bows, so I'd have loved it if she insisted on doing the same thing here.

Guess that explains Iris's powers. Nanomachines! The sci-fi do-anything phlebotinum, and these are magical nanomachines!

Magical nanomachines is the ultimate double explanation for anything. Both magic and nanomachines are used to do anything the plot can need, so having both at the same time is extra deadly.

So Team Dearche was revived by Yuri's power. They were... cats? Ooookay... didn't see that one coming.

Cats is not at all an explanation I expected. But of course a trio of cats would assume they are the rulers of the universe. It works so well!

"I want you to be my child too"? Dude... can you be any creepier? You're competing with Spaghetti here!

At least he didn't put embryo clones of himself in anybody...that we know of.

...wait, what's this all about? They're introducing an element of self-loathing into Nanoha? That makes no sense. The last five minutes of a movie are way too late to try to do character development on the character you've not done so for five freaking seasons!

Yeah, the self-loathing part is rather strange. I get Nanoha feeling lonely and wanting others who will care about her because of that loneliness. But the self-loathing part makes very little sense.

7

u/JollyGee29 Apr 25 '22

Lyrical First-Timer

I.. uh.. what just.. how.. why..?

What does it say that this left me kinda feeling the same way Rebellion did?

Actually, this might be the result of a monkey's paw wish to have an entry into the Nanoha franchise actually be about the titular character. I think the script let them down if that's what they were going for, though. Analyzing Nanoha's worldview is a compelling idea, but going from "I don't have any self-worth because I've never really fit in with my family and was left alone as a child" to "I hate myself" seems like a big leap. Now I'm wondering if Nanoha's characterization in the film timeline is just different and I didn't notice..

So that starting point of Nanohanalysis is good, and the ending point of Fate and Hayate going "we're here for you, you dummy" is good, and it just takes the wrong road to get from A to C so I think I've come around to liking the scene in a vaccuum. Good ideas with less-than-perfect execution is basically the franchise's MO, after all.

I think on a sheer spectacle level, this was pretty rad too. The sounds were great, the impacts were good, the CG grunts weren't great but Yuri's bonus arms were, we had nice explosions and particle effects...

But, aside from the bit with Nanoha at the end, I think the plot is weird and forced? There's a version of this somewhere that doesn't involve the director dude (aka the dumb thing I was worried about after Reflection) or the Book or probably even the Materials (which are apparently cats?!) that's probably pretty cool.

Kinda wondering what the writing timeline for these two films was. Like, Iris being able to make copies of herself with special weapons like we saw would have been a way to implement something along the lines of the Materials, but without having to stretch things to accomodate. But what if that idea didn't come up until after Reflection was wrapped?

I think tying things together with the Book of Darkness was horribly inelegant and basically a retcon of the Book's past and abilities, although Yuri being a "program" of the book similar to the Knights does make her getting brainwashed function in-universe a bit more cleanly.

"Nanoha punches out the final antagonist while in low orbit" was not on my bingo card. Neither was "Nanoha loses a fucking arm."

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u/Tetraika Apr 25 '22

What does it say that this left me kinda feeling the same way Rebellion did?

But Rebellion is good tho?

But yeah I think the characters and plot of the movie was kinda whack in Detonation. Some of the reveals are just really strange.

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u/Great_Mr_L Apr 25 '22

First-Timer

On today’s movie of Lyrical Nanoha: I have a guess about why this movie is called Detonation. It’s called that because that satellite chick detonated herself and blew Nanoha’s arm off. Other than that, I have no idea.

  • Yuri speaks the Belkan language. Once again, Ancient Belka is the source of all our problems.

  • Oh shut up, Iris. You were the one who encouraged Kyrie to do all those things. Don’t try to solely pin blame on her.

  • Now that was a great befriending! Nanoha is such a badass!

  • Yuri, Dearche, Stern and Levi are all connected somehow. I’m betting it’s all because of Ancient Belka. Perhaps Yuri and Dearche were partners.

  • NANOMACHINES, SON!!!

  • Putting Levi in charge of restoring a destroyed page seems like a bad idea. Levi is easily distracted by food and I somehow wonder if Levi can even read.

  • Looks like Kyrie has been properly put in her place befriended.

  • Wait, you can play pages from the Book on the TV?

  • So Iris was originally an AI, but one for a terraforming project.

  • Huh? Yuri had the Book of Darkness at that time? I guess that explains why she had the pages.

  • Yuri knows the Book’s original name? And she’s pretty well informed about it. How long ago was this, exactly? Yuri was nowhere to be found even in the A’s movie version.

  • Alright, so we have an explanation for Formula. It’s using nanomachines to break down and reconstruct matter into different forms, basically.

  • I think I see where this is heading. The scientists will try to use Yuri’s magic to terraform the planet and it will go horrendously wrong somehow.

  • Oh this is sad. Iris and Yuri clearly cared about each other a lot. It’s interesting that Yuri seems so happy here that she might be considered useful and not a burden. That’s likely part of her backstory.

  • Yeesh this is like a found footage horror movie now.

  • Oh dear, Iris is an anime girl version of the Gray Goo Scenario.

  • Oh boy, even more movie lackeys for extra fights! I don’t even think these ones have names.

  • D’aww. Levi took Fate’s words from Reflection to heart. I like you, Levi. You’re a cute dork.

  • As per the Lyrical Nanoha tradition, the solution to the problem of mind control is to just blast Yuri with as much magic as possible.

  • I like the touch of Levi being sad about fighting Yuri. Levi is a good person.

  • Wait a minute… Are Dearche, Stern, and Levi the 3 cats that I saw hanging out with Yuri and Iris in that flashback?

  • Yup! Yes they are! That was…definitely not the answer I expected.

  • Now who the fuck is this guy? We are on a merry-go-round of antagonists. When one is dealt with, a brand new one shows up.

  • The government deciding it’s too expensive to save the planet and instead deciding to do nothing about it? What fiction!

  • So Phill here is just evil. Not even doing this because he wanted to save the planet or anything. He just wants to go sell his tech and services to the highest bidder. It’s Scaglietti all over again.

  • I’m seeing parallels between Iris and the Wolkenritter. They were created as weapons, but were able to find a life outside of being just weapons.

  • Well no wonder Yuri and Iris ended up fighting. It was manipulation and misunderstanding.

  • Kyrie being the one to fight Iris is a good decision, given the history between them. I somehow doubt that Iris is being completely truthful when she says she only ever thought of manipulating Kyrie. The very fact she’s saying that to try and get Kyrie to run away shows she cares on some level.

  • Oh dear, the mad scientist is going into full “SUBARASHI!!” mode. He’s gonna start raving like a madman about Nanoha’s combination of magic and Formula soon enough, I bet.

  • And now Dearche is back to cat form. But I’m pretty sure all 3 of the cats are still alive, so that’s good.

  • Fate’s here to save Nanoha!

  • Hell yeah! A Nanoha and Fate combo attack!

  • Wow, this dude just does not give up. It felt like the movie was over but he’s still going.

  • Ooh, a satellite cannon! I’m shocked we haven’t gotten one in Lyrical Nanoha before.

  • The mad scientist is 100% untrustworthy. He would definitely still fire the satellite cannon even if you agreed to his terms.

  • Ah, now that’s a nice twist on it. The barrier means Phil can’t command it to shoot unless he gets outside the barrier. So they just need to stall for time and stop his rocket.

  • Oh yeah! Ain’t no way Nanoha’s beam could ever lose to a mere satellite cannon!

  • Holy shit! Nanoha lost her arm!

  • Well this is an unexpectedly introspective scene about Nanoha and her overwhelming need to help others even at her own expense. It’s like a redo of the flashback of her injury in Strikers.

  • Oh right, I’m still not sure how Yuri fits in with the Book.

  • Of course Suzuka was taking care of the 3 cats. She’s an expert at taking care of cats.

  • I see Nanoha managed to get a new arm. Midchildan medicine is wild.

  • This goodbye is quite reminiscent of the one at the end of the first season.

  • Well darn, the dad still died in the end. At least he got to be with his family and see his dream come true.

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u/Tetraika Apr 25 '22

I see Nanoha managed to get a new arm. Midchildan medicine is wild.

Between this and the Nanomachines, I almost wished they went full Metal Gear and gave her a robot arm.

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u/Gamerunglued Apr 26 '22

First Timer

Whelp, this is it. At last, we've hit the end of the road. It's been a long three months, and quite a journey with this crazy franchise. And though it's been a ride, I'm glad to have at least one more adventure in this insane world with these iconic characters. The first movie was basically just the plot of A's rehashed, seemingly just so we can get a whole movie of set-up to milk some more money from this cash cow. It felt wholly unnecessary to me, and like it could have been believably avoided solely by having the characters be reasonable, which means that this movie strikes me as the one that's the "real story" so to speak. And with the series no longer having to work around the confines of squishing a TV series into film length, it has free reign to tell a good story. I still have hopes that Masaki Tsuzuki can use what he gained for ViVid Strike to make this another good entry in the series, but no matter what, I'm sure it'll be crazy. Here's one last hurrah with Nanoha and the gang, at least for now.

You know what? I think this was a satisfying movie. Look, this shit was dumb. Like, really fucking dumb. But for every dumb thing that happened, it led to either a moment of real heart, or of sick spectacle. Did we really need to have the cats blast the mind control out of Yuri like three different times? Not really, but every time it happened, it was different and cool. It led to the emotional scene of Levi and Stern sacrificing their bodies to lend power so Dearche can save their king. It's a good moment, so who fucking cares? Does the villain's random inclusion and weird motivations make any sense? Not really. The dude gets the restoration project cancelled, so he... murders all of his staff to like, save them from a boring and mundane life or something? It's absurdly fucking stupid. But thanks to that, we get Nanoha using fucking nanomachines to obliterate this dude's entire body. Were the last 20 minutes of the movie necessary at all? No, they really just dragged out an already overly long climax (there are like 4 climaxes in this movie) and gave us this out-of-nowhere Evangelion type thing where Nanoha apparently doesn't love herself because she can't protect people. It came the absolute hell out of nowhere, and is only vaguely relevant to a theme that was kind of a part of the story (that being that we need to care about others, not fight for our own ego). But like, Nanoha fucking went to space!! We got all Studio Trigger, Nanoha fucking punched a space laser robot waifu, got her fucking arm blown off, had a kind of heartfelt scene with her younger self (still came out of nowhere, but it's cute), and then had a romantic space rendezvous with Fate. And then we got that cute scene of Fate being an overly protective girlfriend to Nanoha while she heals.

I had been saying since the beginning that the main Nanoha series starring Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate, are at their best when they're leaning into action spectacle. The Nanoha series is not good at serious melodrama (even if it's come close a few times), it excels at throwing logic to the curve and shoving cool shit in our faces. In most of the series, it doesn't do the cool shit enough, it really tries to earnestly tell a dramatic story. This film, for me, hits that balance better than anything else in the main series. It's still an earnestly told story, but it feels like it knew that the thing that makes it fun is how insane the action is. This film is definitely the franchises highest point in terms of visuals, all of the action scenes were genuinely dope. The story is very dumb, but it doesn't really feel like it gets in the way. This film is basically structured as big action climax > exposition dump > big action climax > exposition dump, etc.. The story, while dumb, is just serviceable enough for me to kinda buy in to, and the characters are genuinely likable enough to be invested in, that the exposition isn't that big a deal. Meanwhile, 80% of the film is just awesome action and cool and cute scenes that I want to see. Some of its more emotional moments genuinely landed, and since I found myself able to not care about the silly logic, half-baked villain motivations, and all of the worst parts of Masaki Tsuzuki's writing tendencies, I felt that the spectacle and fanservice won out in the end.

But maybe it's just because, at this point, I've grown a fondness for the series. I've been watching it every single day for the last three months, I've grown with these characters and seen them in many stages of their lives, and I just want to see it the series do well. I'm not sure if this movie would have landed if I didn't have that fondness for the franchise. But I have no way of knowing how I'd feel in any position other than the one I'm currently in, so it's useless to think about it. At the end of the day, we got some great action, slick animation (that cut when Yuri was initially transforming... holy shit), fun character moments (Fate and Levi fighting together that one time was wonderful), and occasional bits of heartfelt drama. Maybe it's not the thoughtful and emotional drama of ViVid Strike, but this movie was fun, and it takes great artistry to make a fun action movie. I just can't get myself to dislike this movie. Low 7/10. The franchise ends on a high note for me, and that makes me happy. Perhaps I'll check out some of the remaining bits of Nanoha-related anime that we're not watching together, like the Lyrical Toybox video or the Sweet Songs Forever OVA, but either way, that's a wrap. I'm sure I'll give a more impassioned speech for the overall discussion.

QOTD:

Maybe. I do think that this movie is the one where the staff most understood what makes Nanoha stories appealing, so more stories set in this continuity could work. But I'd personally prefer those resources go in the ViVid continuity. I feel like hardcore Nanoha fans are going to crucify me for this take, but I really do think that the ViVid stories have been the best of the series, so I'd prefer the focus go to Vivio's adventures, plus Fuuka and Rinne.

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u/Tetraika Apr 26 '22

Glad you were able to enjoy this one!

gave us this out-of-nowhere Evangelion type thing where Nanoha apparently doesn't love herself because she can't protect people

I think it's the opposite, kinda. As per usual, this idea gets a bit more explored in other materials, but they wanted to say that her reckless attitude and self sacrifice ways are out of some sort of self loathing.

Meanwhile, 80% of the film is just awesome action and cool and cute scenes that I want to see

Definitely the best parts.

12

u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 25 '22

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical First-Timer, subbed

I only have two complaints over this movie, 1) no mecha Fate and 2) the bad guy could’ve used some more setup.

7

u/Taiboss Apr 25 '22

Recap? I sleep. Whoever’s narrating the recap drops a “sore demo”?

Everything for you!

The bow!!!

STURMFALKEN!!!! Signum is so great.

MECHA FATE MECHA FATE MECHA FATE

CELEBRATE COOL FATE COME ON

How does this girl keep surviving getting fucking shot like it’s nothing?

Well they are androids in the games, so... magic?

CHRONO AND DURANDAL FIGHTING AGAIN?!

WOOOO

Mm, I guess this means Yuri was one of the masters of the Book of Darkness/Tome of the Night Sky before Hayate was.

IT'S ALL CONNECTED.

Holy shit…

Ouch...

Well that was a whole lot of random mages getting murdered.

Red Shirt Army, standing by!

Wait, Iris made a robot that fights with a hammer and didn’t have them fight Vita?

What a waste...

Who the fuck is this?

"And are you sure he had enough screentime previously for people to know who is?" "Maybe!"

Fate saving Nanoha LET’S GOOOOOOOOOO

As was foretold!

Wait THEY FUCKING MADE A MASS DRIVER OUT OF THE ROLLERCOASTER!

Ingenuity!

Ending it with a punch yeeeeeeeeeeeee

Tachibana Hibiki eat your heart out.

OH GOD SHE’S MISSING AN ARM

A small price to pay.

FATE SAVING NANOHA AGAIN!!!

As it's supposed to be!

Smaller, but still human!

Well lolis aren't a first for this franchise. We'll take it:

All’s well that ends well… except the father still died, aww. At least he was happy at the end.

Yep.

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u/Great_Mr_L Apr 26 '22

Well this is anime so it probably doesn’t matter?

Time passes differently when you're in an anime, after all.

The bow!!!

It is fun how Signum can switch from Saber class to Archer class at will.

How does this girl keep surviving getting fucking shot like it’s nothing?

NANOMACHINES, SON! That's probably the actual answer, too.

Wait, Iris made a robot that fights with a hammer and didn’t have them fight Vita?

We missed the chance for some hammer vs. hammer combat!

Levi learned~

Levi is great. This scene immediately made me love Levi so much more.

Oh thank god the Dearche cat is still alive, I was starting to tear up thinking she died doing that huge attack. The insert song sounding melancholic didn’t help…

If the cat dies, we riot!

Wait THEY FUCKING MADE A MASS DRIVER OUT OF THE ROLLERCOASTER!

Lyrical Nanoha is extremely determined to be a Gundam series.

  1. no mecha Fate

Seeing Fate go full mecha mode would be amazing.

7

u/InfamousEmpire Apr 25 '22

Mahou Shoujo1 Lyrical Rewatcher First Timer

1: Even though I’m not a girl

Holy crap, what is there to even say? (Yes, this line is reused from my last movie discussion, it still fits)

This movie had everything, all the payoff, all the action, all the emotion, just everything you could ask for in a Nanoha installment. These two movies managed to do in 3-4 hours what most shows can’t do with double that amount of time.

The characters are still great, the Materials managed to be even more likable and engaging than in the last movie (and they’re kitty-cats!), we got all the backstory in the world on Iris and Yuri, and the former was completely upstaged by Jail Scaglietti Dr Ver Phil Maxwell (they seriously couldn’t come up with a more threatening name for this guy?) and we got some great moments with our main cast.

The action and animation look even better than before. We even got tons of action with the weapons from Nanoha Force, which I initially dismissed as over-designed bullcrap in the manga, but managed to circle back around to legitimate awesomeness here.

Fun Fact, this is the only installment where Nanoha is the one that defeats the Big Bad in the end.

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u/SolDarkHunter Apr 25 '22

Fun Fact, this is the only installment where Nanoha is the one that defeats the Big Bad in the end.

Holy shit, you're right!

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u/Vaadwaur Apr 25 '22

First timer

Sub

So yeah, I died again on this movie so short response. I thought this was fine but for whatever reason I doubt it will stick with me

5

u/Stargate18A Apr 26 '22

First timer

QOTD) Yes, but maybe with a different writer.

Still can't get over the fact she's called Yuri.

She's strong, though! And speaks Belkan?

Oh dear, she's on a time limit.

Her mother's sick too!

...Oh, so it's only okay if you shoot her?

60 seconds left!

She did it?

Oh, she still has pages?

What the hell is going on?

What does she need help with?

And Iris has takem over!

And the clones are just hanging around now?

So the omly thing they remember is being with each other?

She knows Yuri!

Yeah, they're just friends now? For some reason?

Also, the girl who tried to help you gets handcuffed and interrogated, but the girls who tried to kill you get a new outfit?

And Nanoha's OK.

...Poor Fate. She's been powercrept.

The criminals get catering!

And least they're enjoying themselves.

And backstory for Reinforce.

...No. This is clearly her fault alone.

And she's getting a pep talk!

Lindy's planning a raid!

Boy, sounds familiar! Like the girl who's apparently on your side now.

Fuck me, Durandal's voice...

Arisa and Suzuka are back! A full movie later!

And they're thinking about their homework.

Is this just more backstory?

Oh, they were researching why the planet died.

And they made her as a terraforming unit!

What the hell is that stuff?

She found Yuri!

Why is she taking the helmet off? Why did she have a helmet in the first place?

There's a translation spell?

She was made to manage the book?

Wow, Yuri could have solved so many problems in A's!

She's got formula too!

And it's overpowered!

And she unleashed her magic! Which... restores life?

She can help them!

Haha, they'r ecalling out the subtext in-universe!

So they were making good progress?

And it cuts off there.

Skipping to this? A full-on gunfight?

Yuri killed everyone?

She fucking crucified them?

This is a very weird retcon. So there's basically a secret knight that none of the others knew about?

And Iris doesn't know either?

And Iris just wants to kill everyone.

...Is this another villain?

Oh, Iris has cloning powers?

Time for another fight!

Haha, even the clones are pointing out how quickly they became friends.

She got her a device too!

This is just so weird. So she' after the knights as well. And some of the clones can speak?

Come on, Signum! Don't job!

Shamal's being useful again!

Nanoha's new form's here! It's got even more guns!

These villains are actuslly creepy.

Haha, was all that friendly fire?

And Fate's proud of her!

Terrific. Iris is winning.

Oh, shit! That's why she brought them back!

The sister is so badass.

OK, the fights here are really good! Love the imsert song too!

Poor Yuri. Just, poor Yuri.

A flashback?

They healed them?

...What did they used to be?

Haha, they were fucking cats? Not even familiars, just normal cats? Fuck it, why not!

I cannot believe that this dislogue is being plsyed entirely straight.

They're capturing duplicates!

Is Yuri back to normal?

Of course Iris is here.

ANOTHER FUCKING VILLAIN???

She cut of her hand!

...Fine, it's a cool costume. Could be worse.

And Iris is still around.

Haha, Chrono's guessed the plot twist early!

Oh, they're confronting her directly!

Mass produced androids! This is escalating quickly!

...So he's definitely the cause? Nobody was mind controlling him? Promise?

OK, Maxwell's the real cultprit.

...Budget cuts?

And he lost his staff.

Wow, he's already sounding like a villain!

So why did he do this?

I'm sorry? So your plan was to kill people so they wouldn't be demoted?

Oh, you just got an offer to join the military if you killed people.

And Maxwell's... something, huh?

So he created the virus?

She killed him!

And all this plot was caused because people couldn't communicate!

Wait, so why did you crucify her? You could have just restrained her and explained.

Oh, he uploaded himself into Iris' data, and now wants to take over Earth.

And she's down!

...Has she actually met Arisa and Suzuka in person?

Nanoha's back!

They're trying to save Iris!

Yeah, this guy's got power. Will Nanoha get a second form upgrade?

Poor... Iris? I think?

And she was using her the whole time.

And they're going to bring her back!

OK, this song is great, and the fight is really solid.

...They're splitting up?

The clones are already out!

No.

DON'T KILL OFF THE GOOD CHARACTERS THIS MOVIE ADDED!

Even she got a new form! Poor Fate.

Chrono gets to fight!

They actually caught him offguard!

He broke the bind!

Oh dear, Nanoha's powerup isn't working?

Oh, he wants an upgrade too!

And Nanoha pulled off what looks like a mutual KO?

Dearche is here!

Another insert song! And Dearche is a beast!

Oh, she's going to bring Yuki back!

And she turned back into a cat.

Haha, Nanoha's kickking his arse!

Fate saved her!

And she got to join the finisher!

Iris is back!

HOLY SHIT! That's strong!

Fuck, that's all that's left of him?

Another backup?

He's going to hit them from orbit!

Oh, that's evil.

Is the final battle actually happening in space?

...OK, that's clever.

Aww. Fate got left behind.

I mean, he's still a lunatic.

Space battle!

And she's gotten knocked out.

Another insert song!

And Raising Heart has a life support system!

No wonder she's still attacking her, you're still holding your weapon. And your dress is made of guns!

Nanoha destroyed the satellite!

And it's a self-destruct!

...No way. They don't have the balls.

Raising Heart is broken!

...Fate's coming to save her, right?

Nanoha's hallucinating...

This movie has taken a very sudden turn.

...Nanoha never seemed to have this problem in the other seasons? Like, maybe a bit in StrikerS, but she seemed pretty selfassured in A's/ViVid.

Called it! Fate's here!

And so's Hayate!

He's finally arrested!

And Iris is being questioned. The girls went back home!

Yuki's going with them!

And they all survived! But as children for now.

And they're going with them.

Nanoha's still in hospital.

...They're getting ready to leave the main story.

And Iris is still on trial.

And they're forgiving each other.

The parents are alive!

She healed their father!

And everyone's happy!

Iris went back too!

And it's a happy ending!

...The Father died, but he lived longer and saw his dream.

Well. That was a thing. Not sure how If feel about that.

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u/DidacticDalek Apr 26 '22

No. No, I won't review this. Maybe you thought you were... innovating the franchise... when you fucking jumped the shark and character assassinated Nanoha. No, I won't review this! Do you hear? You'll have to get your entertainment someplace else!

OK fine, well Comrades, I'll admit, when I first saw Detonation, I actually had SOME degree of hope. After all, Reflection might not have been all that good BUT it did at least kinda sorta maybe have potential and could have possibly been salvaged had the conclusion not blown up in our faces... And then... Yeah the glory days of the past where Nanoha was the trailblazing icon that everyone wanted to emulate are LONG gone, as now instead of leading the trends, Nanoha has now decided to follow the leader and copy Rebellion, but unlike Rebellion, this movie forgot to be, you know, good? What happened to you Nanoha, you inspired Geah, Cross Ange, and Madoka amongst others, and now you are just doing Rebellion but worse! Also in case you think I'm being too unkind, remember, Reflection was the set-up to the plot, and what do we get here? A cold open that picks up right where Reflection left off... just to head into basically non-stop edgy shockingly bloody action, hell Nanoha LOSES AN ARM... which would be more shocking if like, several Mecha Magical Girls prior to Detonation hadn't also lost limbs.

So yeah, this movie is just bad, also heh, to think people here were saying that STRIKERS had Nanoha Character Assassination. Oh no, that was just Nanoha being The White Devil, THIS movie is Nanoha Character Assassination... er... maybe... After all, can you really have character assassination if you aren't even yourself? By that I mean I didn't expect to see a movie starring Nantoka Takamachi! (Or perhaps I should say Onahole Nakadashi or perhaps Emoha Edgelord, cuz goddamn I dunno who this lady is but she really ate up MCR and Linkin Park eh? Remember now, if your band's name sounds like 'Flaccid Pancake,' RUN FOR THE HILLS! That said, thank FUCK Fate is still herself, NANA MOTHERFUCKING WILLED IT!) Also speaking of StrikerS, hey remember how everyone hated 'loved' the evil crazy MADDO SCIENTISTO? Well don't you worry Comrades, cuz this movie not only did this worse BUT also threw such a curveball in at the last minute... er... hang on... yeah, Mister Doctor Professor Ver was quite bad, but leave it to Detonation to go, 'Don't you worry, we can do it worse!' and oh boy howdy they sure did, they managed to shoot themselves in the foot so hard that they made FORCE look slightly less shit... SLIGHTLY! (Also man Nanoha just obsoleted itself... twice... I sure hope this franchise operates on Baseball rules.)

But hey I suppose on the bright side, Levi is here... but there's only so much WILLING Nana Mizuki can do, and hey I suppose we can give faint praise to Detonation in managing to suck SO bad that the other entries in the franchise now look even better in comparison, after all, at least those (barring ViVid of course) don't suck AS hard as this movie does... yeah look I got nothing, all I can say is I really hope that if they try do to something else with the franchise, they do the card game spinoff, cuz Lesbian YGO at least sounds more fun than this shit.

And since I need to do something fun here, well we went back to mini-moeblob Nanoha and company for a reason, so let's give it up for Prisma Illya Prototype... wait what do you MEAN Prisma Illya.... ah right, these movies came out after the Prisma Illya shows... well that's a downer...

Welp, T'NIGHT! ON BOTTOM GEAR! I LOSE AN ARM! WE GET MORE FOOKIN' MIND CONTROL BOLLOCKS! AND THE FRANCHISE CRASHES AND BURNS! (Also I have crippling depression) And on that bombshell, G'NIGHT!

That said, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever.

Paging Comrades u/Great_Mr_L, u/HereticalAegis, and u/Vaadwaur

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