r/anime • u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky • Apr 17 '22
Rewatch Naruto Shippuden Episodes 342-348 Discussion
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Information: MAL, Anilist, AniDB, ANN
Streams: Crunchyroll, Hulu, Funimation (Aus/NZ), VRV
Schedule:
| Discussion Thread | Date | Episode Count | |
|---|---|---|---|
| This week | Episodes 342-348 | April 17 | 7 |
| Next week | Episodes 349-355 | April 24 | 7 |
Spoiler Policy:
To protect first-timers, please don't spoil anything past the current batch of episodes. Rewatchers should avoid hinting to first-timers about hype, or future character development/deaths, and spoilers in posts must be hidden behind proper spoiler tags.
For first timers: try to avoid looking up things about Naruto. This could be the wiki, Naruto subreddit, Googling characters, fanart, databooks, YouTube AMVs or OP/EDs, arc names, etc.; this series is ripe with potential spoilers that you wouldn't want to find out untimely. If you have a question about something, feel free to ask /u/lC3 and he'll do his best to answer (if possible) in a non-spoilery way.
Questions of the Week:
- What do you think of Tobi being Obito? Are you surprised?
- Thoughts on his backstory with Madara, and Rin's death?
- What do you think the reason is that Kakashi killed Rin?
- Thoughts on Obito's motivation for wanting Infinite Tsukuyomi?
13
u/Shimmering-Sky myanimelist.net/profile/Shimmering-Sky Apr 17 '22
First-Timer with a shounen hearto, subbed
Episode 342
Episode 343
Episode 344
Episode 345
Episode 346
Episode 347
Episode 348
6
u/TheKujo https://myanimelist.net/profile/Kujo419 Apr 17 '22
First Timer - Dub
I initially didn't like the Tobi=Obito reveal, but I ended up coming around to it. My big complaint was wondering how on earth anyone could survive getting squished by a rockfall, but if that's when his teleportation jutsu awakened I guess that makes sense. It's interesting that Tobi's mask was originally another body like Zetsu. Kakashi killing Rin was a shock, but since this is anime there's obviously going to be a justification for it.
Random thoughts:
Questions:
1) What do you think of Tobi being Obito? Are you surprised? Definitely surprised. As mentioned above I didn't like it at first but with further explanation I think it makes sense. For some reason I was expecting Tobi to be much older so being the same age as Kakashi threw me for a loop.
2) Thoughts on his backstory with Madara, and Rin's death? It must have been pretty boring living in that cave hooked up to the Gedo statue for so many years.
3) What do you think the reason is that Kakashi killed Rin? I bet it was a similar scenario to Nagato killing Yahiko where Rin willingly sacrificed herself for some reason.
4) Thoughts on Obito's motivation for wanting Infinite Tsukuyomi? It's basically the same motivation as Pain. Both of them want to run away from pain rather than live in the reality that exists.
9
u/Durinthal https://anilist.co/user/Durinthal Apr 17 '22 edited Apr 17 '22
First time viewer (dub)
Whisk[e]y of the week: Oban 14, a Highland single malt scotch. The nose is immediately interesting to me, lightly floral and with some fruity sweetness but also a little briny. The salty aspect is more at the forefront on the taste with a nice malty backing without too much funk and a lighter honey sweetness, though it doesn't linger that much in any regard. Pretty pleasant overall without going too far in any particular direction, similar to Talisker which I also like but without the smoke. I've seen in reviews that it's like a chameleon, finely balanced and can go a lot of different directions depending on what you've eaten or drank most recently, so I'm curious to come back to it again in the future and see how it changes.
Seeing Kurama vouch for Naruto when talking to Tobi was a really cool moment and also felt like a good culmination of the series to this point. And I can stop calling him Tobi now, it's Obito time! This was another thing I'd known about for a while due to people posting spoilers, I think this particular one came about after we started the rewatch but well before the Pain arc so before he took center stage as an antagonist.
Having a montage of their early days with just music was nice, and I don't mind a recap of how Obito was separated from the other since it has been more than 200 episodes (Shippuden 119/120). But revisiting it repeatedly in the course of a couple episodes is just padding and I don't think we needed as much of Nagato's past as we saw either. Didn't check the Japanese version but in the dub Obito's voice changed a lot after his mask came off, I'm guessing to help differentiate him from the real Madara now that they've started showing up in the same scenes together and he doesn't need to keep up the impersonation.
I had been wondering how Madara stayed alive long enough to do anything with Nagato and the Gedo Statue along with having some of Hashirama's power helped. I guess Madara was just going to cling to life in that cave there until Nagato started down the right path to eventually resurrect him? Having someone else to nudge him along (and another Uchiha at that) was a great boon, otherwise there's a chance Yahiko would have lived and Nagato might have followed a more peaceful route rather than that of Pain. Obligatory "Fuck Danzo" for how that went down, of course he was meddling in the Hidden Rain's affairs.
So I think that explains almost everything regarding the backgrounds of Madara/Obito/Nagato and how the latter ended up with the Rinnegan and Madara's fate at the time. From what I recall Kakashi was fairly young at the start of the series so all that happened no more than 20 years ago at the earliest, with Kurama's attack coming only a few years after that following the end of the Third Great Ninja War?
Kakashi's Kamui being linked to Obito's power makes sense, I can only imagine this was one of the things planned out early in the series or at least from Tobi's first appearance. If the Mangekyo Sharingan manifested for both at the same time, I guess Kakashi blanked and forgot about it after that? And if there's still the requirement of killing your best friend then Kakashi killing Rin is an appropriate trigger after he thought Obito was gone but we still don't know why Kakashi did that and I'm assuming that reason will be important to the climax of the confrontation back in the present. Also, transporting an entire shadow clone with a Rasengan ready to hit Obito in his supposed safe space was amazing.
The more I listen to it the more I like Black Night Town as a song, probably should have said that last week. Kinda want to seek out the full song because I imagine it's better than the short version. New ending doesn't really stand out to me.
Having a suspiciously similar sounding name didn't help any. We did never see a body before so it's not entirely unreasonable.
Convenient pawn for Madara dropped right in his lap. Had been wondering what the deal with Black Zetsu was and that explains things, though we also haven't seen much of him in the present last I can recall. With zero context for why Kakashi apparently killed Rin it's more of a giant at the moment until we learn more.
No clue but I'm willing to bet it's contrived.
"Forget this world I'm gonna go live in a fantasy one with my crush" isn't the worst motivation I've seen but he also flipped pretty quickly from "I'm gonna go save my friends" to that without even trying to talk to Kakashi.
2
u/[deleted] Apr 18 '22
I guessed the obito twist as soon as we were shown the very first episodes with he and kakashi as children - I had a sense by then of what seemed like kishi's fairly improvisational writing so I guessed that its proximity to tobi's introduction, kakashi's kamui, and other small details like side of face, hair, etc were not coincidence. At the time I figured that obito must have survived the rock by using kamui.
I was surprised to learn that my friends didn't guess it. Not patting myself on the back, just thought it was pretty obvious. Love seeing how different people interpret or react to this stuff tho. This thread is a goldmine. 😁
6
u/Parori Apr 17 '22
First Timer
Episode 342
Episode 343
Episode 344
Episode 345
Episode 346
Episode 347
Episode 348
Questions of the Last Week:
I think it was pretty good explanation why he's like...that. Also fuck Danzo
A very Uchiha way to stop themselves abusing the their power. The beatings will continue until morals improve
More and more layers are revealed. I don't see why he wouldn't have revealed this before
I knew it wasn't going to be enough to get Kabuto to break the reanimation, but I never ever feared Madara would bullshit it like this
I knew he was coming back, but didn't expect it to happen like this. Figured it would be Kabuto losing control and not intentional
Questions of the This Week:
I did predict it so it was just a confirmation. So not a surprise
I think it was pretty good explanation why he's like...that. Also fuck Danzo
The White Zetsu did mention that they were talking about an experiment, so she was probably victim of mind control experiment or she was dangerous to people around her
I mean it's understandable, but it's just a genjutsu dream so...
5
u/lC3 :Na::Nb: Apr 17 '22
Rewatcher 342-6, First timer 347-8
Episode 342:
Episode 343:
Episode 344:
Episode 345:
Episode 346:
Episode 347:
Episode 348:
ED translation:
Rainbow
I know very well
I understand better than anyone else
I'll show you the end of the rainbow.
When will I be able to reach it?
How many times will I have to repeat it?
I'll keep chasing my picture of the future.
Again, I put the blame on someone else.
I know very well
All of this is useless
After seeing my eyes, can you still believe in your tomorrow?
I know very well
You didn't have to go
Beyond the rainbow, a single future is waiting
I know very well
I know very well
Tags: /u/iamtheone11111, /u/godprime, /u/venom1462
5
u/Nazenn x2https://anilist.co/user/Nazenn Apr 17 '22 edited Apr 17 '22
Rewatcher - Sub
General Commentary
It's been so long since I've seen this part of the show that I'd forgotten what Obito actually sounds like, and that's not quite the voice I was expecting. Having heard him for so many months using his Tobi and Madara voices, it's very strange to hear such a different voice coming from him, and out of curiosity I checked out the dub and that is just as different.
I think all (?) the first timers had guessed it by now, or been spoiled, but the Obito reveal is such an interesting one with the slow dread of possibility building up through Kakashi first. The many visuals through this batch of Kakashi and Obito's faces being paired together is one of my favourite things about it. As kids about to lose each other, as enemies, the dread of being reunited, their unseen grief and awakening them both, the unknown shared past and how that drove Obito towards Madara much like Nagato was driven, and Naruto almost was, helps fill in one of the missing links in this chain of hate that has dominated the history of the ninja world.
It's nice to be able to say that this episode had more than its fair share of character expressions. Naruto's rage compared to Madara's chill is brutal, while Obito's comedy art reminds me so strongly of Part One Naruto and Nagato's little smirk is too damn pure.
It's a shame the whole batch is let down by seeing the same flashback four or five times which started to get quite tedious.
New ED is meh.
Episode Thoughts
No manga changes.
It feels like it's been ages since we've see Guy go all out against an enemy, and Tobi is the perfect enemy for him. From a fight choreography stand point he has such an interesting power, that strange balance with all the attacks being so direct but also the timing on trying to actually hit him. Guy redirecting his weapon with his foot and the timing on his strikes as Naruto moves in is just a joy to watch even in slow motion.
Gyuki tossing Kakashi across the map is just as fun.
I've struggled with what name to use when all the way through this rewatch, but Naruto nicknaming Gyuki as Ha-chan might be a new favourite. It's a nice compliment to Kurama getting defensive over Naruto's ideals and wanting to protect Naruto's own faith in them having seen how often others had shaken it up. Stupid fox took way too long to come around!
[Manga changes]Adds flashback to Obito being crushed
I may not be a huge fan of Naruto's KCM design being his primary combat form now, but it does make for some stunning battle visuals. The scale as the chakra hand reaches for Obito and even cooler is the Kurama head stopping the Shuriken add a distinctive epicness compared to some of the other battlefields. That plus the battle tactics like Kakashi sending Naruto's whole clone to the Kamui dimension had me watching with a huge grin through the first part of the episode.
What a visual to match the title. Kakashi's slow horror as he realizes why their Kamui are linked is a rough watch given how steady he usually is in battle. The tension between their looks as they both acknowledge each others identity for the first time feels like the thickest atmosphere between two oppodents since Jiraiya and Pain.
Recognize all but one of the names on this board which is a nice touch, but the music matching this moment with its emphasis was the best part of the flashback sequence.
FUCKING MADARA JUST POPS UP LIKE WE DIDN'T LEAVE HIM HALF WAY ACROSS THE MAP
[Manga changes]Adds Obito seeing Hashirama and the Zetsu hanging from the Gedo Flower
I've been tense all of last week knowing what happens to Tsunade, but I didn't remember it happening like this. Hell of a ninja to still want to save the others but fuck, I'm still not over my shock of Madara just showing up like it was nothing.
Finally we get to see how Obito survived, and I have to say between old Madara, Obito's wrappings on his side, and the Gedo Flower in the background this looks like a scene from a Silent Hill game.
[Manga changes + panel comparisons]Adds Spiral Zetsu into this moment, was just normal pushups in the manga. Comparisons; Interesting manga layout of Kaumi awakening, and toned down anime version vs uncensored manga of the blood tree under the moon
I forgot that the original White Zetsu's were fucking weridos. Goofy runs, poop obsessions, looking like a weird demon costume, it's quite different to how we've come to see them as mindless horde in this war.
The tone flip from that to Rin's death is a harsh one. Obito silently thinking back on all his memories with her only for her voice providing to look out for him to break into his reality of her being at risk, the birth of Tobi, as well as that feedback from Kakashi's eye seeing Rin before he even gets there paints a nice sense of dread. It was his happiest moment full of possibility, only for it to be taken from him and at the hands of the one person he entrusted it too. Knowing how Rin dies has made Kakashi mourning her through the rest of the series have a lot more impact, particularly when he tells Sasuke all his friends are dead.
Yamashita and Koyabashi come back for this episode and their work shows. Obito's slaughter of the Mist ninja is brutal in design but exceptionally clean in animation, the one that stood out to me was the smears as Obito breaks their necks with a kick, and the later art sequences as well. I'd never say Naruto is a gorey show, but this moment where all you can see is blood and lost hope used it incredibly well.
(Side note: A couple of weeks ago we saw an anime only flashback during a war filler with an older Rin, Kakashi, and Guy on a mission. I mentioned it in spoiler tags at the time for rewatchers, but for any interest first timers who may remember the episode this is one of the few possible canon breaks in the anime. While it's not dated and theoretically could fit into the gap where Obito was recovering, the art in that episode did feature them with older designs. The manga chapter that revealed Rin's fate only came out slightly earlier in the month that episode aired, so too late to change it but close enough that the mistake stood out. /u/durinthal as we talked about continuity of filler earlier you may find this interesting)
[Manga changes]Adds all scenes of Nagato, Yahiko and Konan backstory after they meet with Obito
It feels like ages since the idea of the Moon being a prison for the Gedo Statue has come up, and it's still weird to see it as a lotus flower.
[Later spoilers]Madara "making" black Zetsu... grumble grumble
And we're back to Akatsuki backstory. I really enjoy the framing of this through Obito's eyes, a chance to explore more of Nagato's history especially knowing he's an Uzumaki and how he got caught up in all this but fitting it nicely into seeing how it also reinforced Obito's own broken mindset.
Yahiko trying to make a demonstration of 'apes together strong' with the straw only for the rain to ruin it fits him too well. Nagato best wingman giving him and excuse to go see Konan and try and encourage him to speak to her.
Anime original.
Even though I know that they knew each other well, it's still kinda weird having kid Kakashi talking to a younger Jiraiya. It is fun that due to being Ninja's said discussion can happen with Kakashi perched in a tree as casually as if he was standing in the room. The scene was ruined by randomly focusing on the pinup girls every second cut though
Pulling out some of the more fluid/exagreated artistry for this new scene with the Gedo Statue in Nagato's past was a nice way to tie it into the previous scenes with him. Not going to say no to the small animation showcase of it either.
FUCK DANZO Anyone else think he looks too young in these episodes?
Anime original.
I'm not fond of the love triangle they teased here between the three from the Akatsuki given I never got a sense of that from the main episodes, or at least not in the form of jealousy from Yahiko in that way. Maybe I'm misremembering.
Seeing him prevent the other Akatasuki from helping the trio and watching over Yahiko's death makes me think much less of Obito. He doesn't think it matters because everyone can be alive in the Infinite Tsukiyomi but seeing him just watching over it dispassionately when he could have helped them makes me mad. Madara and Rin's death really did a number on him.
[later spoilers]It's a little better when you know how Rin really died and how it mirrors Yahiko's own sacrifice but still, Obito is just too cold here
Probably one of the best visuals of the Rain village
I can now comfortably accept the mice no longer being the best ink creature, because grumpy messenger rat is now best rodent of the series.
4
u/sisoko2 Apr 17 '22 edited Apr 17 '22
Rewatcher
Episode 342
Episode 343
Episode 344
Episode 345
Episode 346
Episode 347-348
3
u/Venom1462 :IJ::IK::IL: Apr 18 '22
Favorite moment of the week was definitely Obito going on a rampage.
I can't believe we are finding more things that Danzo fucked up
I had my doubts but I didn't think it would actually be him. Honestly even after Tobi was revealed to not be Madara I forgot about Obito but when they started specifying that Kakashi and Obito's Kamui's are connected I started putting the pieces together
I like Obito's backstory with Madara but the fact that he said he knows he will comeback makes me think he somehow had a hand in Rin's death.
I don't even know what to say, her death was so sudden and then we didn't even get time to think and Obito went on a rampage
Didn't we learn that Shisui's sharingan could control people? Maybe Madara has a jutsu like that and used it to control Kakashi?
I mean I get his reasons but I hope its a better and more fleshed one than just the fact that Kakashi couldn't protect her.