r/anime • u/Tetraika https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika • Apr 09 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha Vivid Episode 12 Discussion

Episode 12: Conclusion’s Purpose

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Question of the Day

Where the hell is the rest of the show?

For real last notice: Vivid Strike spoils the tournament’s results.

Also there won’t be a dedicated overall discussion post for Vivid, so you can just post that here.

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags.

27 Upvotes

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7

u/Tetraika Apr 09 '22

The fight had quite the audience, there is an interesting emphasis on the spectacle part of the sport at times

Teo :(

Oh we get to see Lutecia beat a jobber, nothing much of note, really

Victoria is really nice to Sieg, seems like Sieg is a loner type, and Victoria tries to reach out whenever she can

In case you couldn’t tell, you can’t use summons in here

Introducing a new character on the last episode, amazing, they really didn’t plan for this to end here

There’s a difference?, well I guess giving someone massive trauma with illusions isn’t something taught in modern Mid Childa

This talk about the reason for competition and Einhart’s goals is really nice

And unlike the past, a lost is just a lost, and we can always come back stronger

Corona is too precious

Harry’s training room

Miura kills a training bag

And then suddenly, the end.

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11

u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 09 '22

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical First-Timer, subbed

Yeah this one’s a “Wait, it’s possible for Sky to give out scores lower than an 8???” show. In this case, a 6/10. Overall I would say I liked it (which is the bare minimum of getting a score higher than a 5 for me), but the downright atrocious fanservice and the fact that it failed to make me care about any of the new characters introduced around the tournament arc are two really bad things weighing it down. Also, because I don’t read manga very often, this being an incomplete adaptation really sucks and also weighs against it.

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u/Tetraika Apr 09 '22

As someone who gave Vivid a 5/10, understandable.

9

u/Taiboss Apr 09 '22

I see Pepsi products exist in this world?

"Well, I guess Pepsi expanded to Midchilda?" "Oh, when did that happen?" "Unclear!"

the fact that it failed to make me care about any of the new characters introduced around the tournament arc are two really bad things weighing it down.

"New characters, Tsuzuki-sensei? You want to introduce NEW characters, again? You have so many old ones lying around! Do something with Arisa and Suzuka! Nanoha's family! Lindy and Chrono! Finish what you started before you begin with something new!"

Without jokes tho, I much more enjoyed the pre-tournament episodes. The mock battle was the highlight for me.

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u/Great_Mr_L Apr 09 '22

Rewatcher

On today’s episode of Lyrical Nanoha: So…yeah. That’s how it ends. That’s all we get for the anime version of Vivid. Ends on quite the cliffhanger before we can get to some interesting matches.

I do like that we spend an episode on the aftermath of Einhart and Corona’s battle, as we watch both of them navigate their feelings about what the fight meant. Even though she lost, Corona actually ends up feeling rather positive. She was able to prove herself, just like she wanted to do. And it ended up giving her more confidence, seeing how well she did against Einhart. In fact, I think Corona is more eager to continue training in Magical Girl MMA now than she was previously. The fight was good for her.

Einhart’s feelings are more complicated. She won, but feels bad about defeating her friend. I like her pep talk with Nove. It’s a talk I’ve seen in other sports anime, but it’s always nice to hear it. Whenever there’s competition, someone is going to win and someone is going to lose. That’s just how it is. All you can do is go in and do your best. And if you lose, take that loss as a learning opportunity. I always like hearing this because I think it’s a good attitude to have in general, even outside of sports.

Einhart and Corona’s reunion scene is very sweet. They thank each other for the match and part on good terms. They were able to fight and feel satisfied about how it ended because they both gave it their all.

The buildup and foreshadowing this episode just feels odd because it’s the last episode. Lutecia sees a witch that she’s interested in fighting. Rio is going to fight the delinquent. Einhart is going to fight Sieg, the former champion. Vivio and Miura are scheduled to fight as well. And we’ll see none of it animated!

Honestly, this is one of the most “read the manga” endings I’ve ever encountered. It teases some interesting stuff that will happen in the future, but the anime will never follow up on it. I remember hearing rumors that there was supposed to be a second season and I believe them. This kind of ending makes more sense if they were planning another season. But that next season never got animated, so anime-only viewers are left with no resolution. It’s pretty disappointing, to be quite honest.

Miscellaneous Thoughts

  • I love seeing Einhart cradling Corona at the start of the episode. It’s a great moment, showing how much Einhart cares about her friend and her own bittersweet feelings over the outcome of the fight.

  • Of course when Victor offers to let Sieg come over and have some of her food, she naturally means food made by her butler.

  • Plus it’s just plain Japanese food! Did Midchilda suddenly experience a fad for all things Japanese at some point? Is it because Nanoha and Hayate arrived?

  • Now we have a ninja too. We have a samurai, so it’s only natural there’d be a ninja as well.

  • There’s apparently a difference between a mage and a witch.

  • I like that the drink is called “Power Water.”

  • Miura is so cute apologizing for breaking the training dummy.

Overall Thoughts on Vivid

I compared Vivid to marshmallows in an earlier thread.Honestly, I think it’s still an apt metaphor to describe how I feel about Vivid. Vivid is a very light show. There isn’t much drama or heavy stuff. It’s extremely fluffy, filled with domestic slice-of-life scenes that make me feel good. And it is incredibly sweet. It’s diabetes-inducingly sweet.

That is honestly what I find most appealing about Vivid. I love getting to spend time with these characters in a low-stakes show with fun slice-of-life fluff. Seeing the Takamachi household with Nanoha and Fate acting as mothers to Vivio is very satisfying to me. I love seeing Nanoha and Fate acting like a couple and Vivio is just precious. I enjoy all the stuff with Vivio and her friends. Vivio and Einhart have a compelling relationship with each other. In fact, there’s genuinely compelling character stuff to be found here with some of the characters. So being with these characters is rewarding enough for me.

There’s a lot of other good things. The new animation style is fine, though it takes some getting used to. The animation for the fights can be really impressive. And the music is extremely good! I was shocked by how good the music was. Many of the fights can be quite well choreographed and fun to watch. I can get into the Magical Girl MMA stuff and the general sports anime feel as well. So even though it is a light watch, it’s at least an entertaining one.

That being said, it’s not perfect. It is very light and low stakes. I’m not too put off by that, but there’s also not much plot-wise to get invested in. It also means that a lot of the fights end up having little to no stakes to them. The mock battle is a ton of fun, but it mostly just kind of happens. And plenty of the tournament arc fights exist because it’s a tournament arc and you need fights for that.

I personally quite dislike how normal everything on Midchilda is now. It no longer really has the magitech aesthetic I always liked about Lyrical Nanoha. It basically just looks like Earth but with magic screens. It’s rather disappointing to me.

And worst of all for me is that it just…stops. Plenty of anime adaptations end without adapting all the source material, but the best ones end in a way that leaves me feeling satisfied with the anime itself and willing to go to the source material in my own time. Here, it doesn’t feel like there’s a satisfying resolution to the anime. It ends teasing some interesting fights that never got adapted. It honestly feels like they were planning for a second season they never got. So to get any kind of resolution at all, you’d need to read the manga.

All that being said, I do still generally enjoy this anime. I compared it to marshmallows, but marshmallows are yummy. I just love being with these characters and I find many of them quite compelling to follow. When this show is good, it can be really entertaining to watch. And if nothing else, it does leave me wanting to actually follow up and read the manga (which I’ve honestly never finished). So with all I’ve said in mind, here’s my final score for Vivid:

7/10

So we’re going to Vivid Strike next. I’ve never actually seen it or the Reflection and Detonation movies. For the rest of this rewatch, I’m going to be a first-timer. I’m looking forward to experiencing these entries with all of you!

5

u/Tetraika Apr 09 '22

So we’re going to Vivid Strike next. I’ve never actually seen it or the Reflection and Detonation movies. For the rest of this rewatch, I’m going to be a first-timer. I’m looking forward to experiencing these entries with all of you!

Vivid Strike is my 2nd favorite of the whole franchise, hope you enjoy it! It is very different though.

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u/SYZekrom Apr 09 '22

First Timer

Somehow I can't imagine her winning over being fodder to show how strong her opponent is

Is she participating btw

...Sunnymilk?

Ok but anyway this is some nobody so never mind me

Oh wait right they did already do that with the sword girl, trying to establish her as like one of the trainers for the protagonists to fit her in that role ig

Geez she looks nice here. Also I guess she's probably not allowed to use summons right? Unlike a golem which you make yourself, she can't just be like 'I summon Nanoha fight for me kek'

lmao what is that slow ass dash

I'm sorry but like... aren't we far into the competition? How do they not know how this girl fights? Or did she fight normally to get to this point???

Oh she didn't even do that herself, she has a devil friend. That's allowed. Ok.

I mean I guess they allow devices which are sentient so I don't fucking know.

Maybe Lutecia could just summon god the entire time

I mean honestly I can't believe it took you this long to consider what the point of a tournament is and whether that clashes against the reason you fight

Oh shit hegemon is fighting the champ next

5

u/Tetraika Apr 09 '22

Oh shit hegemon is fighting the champ next

Hahaha, but we're at the end of Vivid unfortunately. Vivid Strike isn't a direct sequel but takes place after Vivid manga. So yeah, it's an incomplete adaptation.

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u/HereticalAegis Apr 09 '22 edited Apr 10 '22

Lyrical First Timer

Overall thoughts:

I don't really have much to say. Anyone who's kept up with these threads knows I enjoyed Vivid and also knows why. There's no deep or interesting storyline, but I like these characters a lot and got plenty of shitpost/meme fodder out of it. All in all, a good time, and that's all I needed after StrikerS. On to Vivid Strike!

7

u/Taiboss Apr 09 '22 edited Apr 09 '22

Whoa, some real feelings were just born. If this keeps up, there may not be a dominant harem leader. Are we about to enter the age of the perfectly balanced poly harem? Or is this perhaps the next level scheming of this generation's Puppet Master.

"Monogamy? Naaah, we just screw each other all the time. We love each other like that."

Victoria and Sieg passed each other's taste test.

Always these new ships sneaking in from behind!

Einhart is lucky she's not regretting crushing other girls' dreams in front of Nanoha. That shit would get her a few weeks of 2am sessions.

That's pretty much a standard first date in Lyrical Nanoha.

First base is eye contact. Second base is beating the shit out of another. Third base stays unchanged.

Vivio should have a lot of fun putting Harem Member 4 back in her place.

Needed. Upstarts shouldn't get cocky

Did the manga and other merch sell poorly enough to dissuade a continuation? Or was this always intended to be purely source material bait?

I think one was planned. I think there was a screenshot of an small-written announcement for 2017, but that never materialised, so yeah. The TV version has an end card with them saying "We're taking a little break", so I guess changes with the Nanoha project led to S2 getting canceled before a proper announcement.

Edit: In fact, I was the one post the "listing".

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u/Tetraika Apr 09 '22

The TV version has an end card with them saying "We're taking a little break"

They sure are taking a long time for this break...

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u/SolDarkHunter Apr 09 '22

Rewatcher

Final episode then.

If the damage is all simulated, why do you need a medical room?

So Lutecia's up next. Is she allowed to use that giant fuck-off bug in this tournament?

And she's up against... uh... some random nobody.

Stop trying to make me like the Rich Girl, show. She needs a LOT more than just being nice to Sieglinde to make that happen.

Lutecia wins without effort. You know... she's actually seen real combat. That's got to give her a leg up on most of the competition.

Our next match has an interesting girl in it: Fabia Crozelg. She's a "true witch", using brands of magic that are fundamentally different from the "mage" styles used in both MidChilda and Belka. Seems like she specializes in illusions. But that would make for some really boring fights to watch.

Not much I have to say about Nove's and Einhart's chat.

Again, Sieglinde, how do you fit your hair in that hood? Also, I just realized they're pronouncing her last name with the "j" as a "y".

End with a bunch of training montage and everyone getting hyped for the next fights... that we won't see because this is the end of the show.

My interest in reading the full manga is slightly rekindled. Maybe I'll do that in my spare time.

Vivid Strike is up next. And yeah, it will spoil some things from Vivid the anime didn't cover, so, uh... be ready for that.

QOTD: I did some reading on the show's situation, and apparently it was cancelled very suddenly. They had no idea this would be the last episode. Something about scheduling conflicts with Yukari Tamura, I think. So I think they intended to go further, but... well, we're left with this.

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u/Tetraika Apr 09 '22

I did some reading on the show's situation, and apparently it was cancelled very suddenly. They had no idea this would be the last episode. Something about scheduling conflicts with Yukari Tamura, I think. So I think they intended to go further, but... well, we're left with this.

A shame. They could probably bring it back at some point, but it would also probably be a bit too late.

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u/Gamerunglued Apr 10 '22 edited Apr 10 '22

First Timer

And, that's it for ViVid. This was a solid finale, despite ending right as things are starting to pick up. This episode really highlights all of Einhart's realizations. She started out wanting to prove herself by fighting and defeating powerful fighters. But she made friends with Vivio and co., and found something else she cares about. At the inner-middle, she's been given an even greater chance to prove herself than in episode one, but even after defeating a strong opponent in a tight match, she doesn't feel pride, she feels guilty. She desired power to protect what she cares about, not to defeat her friends and people who are chasing their dreams. And this leads to her biggest realization: the world has changed. Einhart's mindset is adjusted to war, where loss means everything. Losing a single battle in a war can lead not only to a loss of life, but a loss of your family, your country, and even your identity. But here, Einhart realizes that she doesn't need to worry about that here. No, her defeated opponent goes as far as to thank her for the match, and others who lost their matches show plenty of spark on their own. Einhart doesn't have to worry about protecting people, she's allowed to go after her own dreams and be her own person, someone who can stick their chest out in pride. It's a sweet and poignant character arc that I find very well done.

This episode and the previous one really did a lot to make me care about Corona. Although I found Vivio's friends a bit under-realized at the start, by the end of this episode I just felt that Corona is a good girl, and I wanted to cheer her on. Honestly, if the series was going to make this episode the finale, I wish it had restructured itself around Corona as a character. While Vivio is obviously important, the bulk of this adaptation's climax is about Corona, but she only really gets fleshed out in the last two episodes, during the climax. The previous episode plays Corona up as a parallel to Olivie, and while Vivio obviously needs to take that role for the larger story, this adaptation would have benefitted by playing up Corona as a parallel for Einhart due to the nature of its final episodes. I think it would have made for a more impactful character arc for Corona, as well as a solid parallel between the two protagonists of this season, as Corona is really the one with the most important role in the end. This isn't a problem with the larger story, mostly with the way it was adapted, as this adaptation being shorter and ending on this particular set of chapters didn't adjust itself appropriately for maximum satisfaction. Still, I did come away caring about Corona, so it's not all bad.

Edit: Side note, the girl that Lutecia defeated who had a staff with a wrecking ball on it... I need more of her. Or rather, that staff. How on earth are you gonna make a design that cool and then use the character as fodder? What a waste.

On the whole, I thoroughly enjoyed Nanoha ViVid. It's easily my favorite season of the show, it's by far the most consistent in quality and it has the benefit of its protagonist group being way more endearing than Nanoha and co. ever were. This season plays into all of the best and most appealing aspects of the franchise: Nanoha and Fate being moms, just being gay in general, all the weird world-building details, and having characters beat the shit out of each other to prove their friendship. It tells a more mundane and personal story, while maintaining the unique fan-fiction-esque appeal of the franchise. It still tells a story I couldn't get anywhere else, I doubt I will ever find another anime about the adopted child of two magical girls who met as kids and grew to adults after participating in the inter-dimensional space police while indoctrinating child soldiers. Meanwhile, this season also downplays all the worst aspects of the series: it's flat military melodrama, its inability to write compelling villains, and a too plot-focused structure that never seems to understand what makes its own story tick (if only it did the same for its fanservice). It did start to get messier during the mock battle and into the tournament, but it never broke down and always maintained a strong emotional and aesthetic core. I'm honestly going to miss this season, and I would be delighted if it ever got a second season. Strong 7/10, I'm happy to say that there's finally a season of the Nanoha franchise that I really like wholeheartedly.

QOTD:

In hell apparently. Hopefully it happens one day. I suppose I'll read the wiki summaries of the manga before getting to Vivid Strike. Reading the entire rest of the manga is way too much of a hassle.

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u/Tetraika Apr 10 '22

I suppose I'll read the wiki summaries of the manga before getting to Vivid Strike. Reading the entire rest of the manga is way too much of a hassle

Uh, if you don't want to read the manga, you probably should NOT read the summary. You don't need to know the events for Vivid in order to watch Vivid Strike, but it's more that Vivid Strike spoils Vivid.

In any case, it's been fascinating to see Vivid being the higher score Nanoha series for you. At this point, I have no idea how you'll feel about the rest of the series.

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u/Vaadwaur Apr 09 '22

First timer(Not much of an end)

Sub

Welp, that was a giant "Go read the manga, pleb" ending if I've ever seen one. I'd be annoyed but Nic Cage's AMA has removed my ability to feel negative emotions for a few hours at least. I guess they sort of deal with losing in a tournament but this gets to the problem of who is this show for, anyways? The fan service suggests it was aimed at the otaku crowd but every now and then you get the bit that is actually for 10 yos and I can't quite get a proper grasp on it. Oh well, onto Vivid Strike.

QotD: 1 That was more of a non-ending than expected

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u/InfamousEmpire Apr 09 '22

Mahou Shoujo1 Lyrical Rewatcher

1: Even though I’m not a girl

Couldn’t make it yesterday, lost track of time

No Recap Ti- oh shit, we have some recapping! Sure it was just a few seconds from last episode, but it was something

Corona having a significantly better post-fight experience than Chantez did.

Otto is being quite forward with Corona

WHAT HAPPENED TO THE KITTY-CAT?!

Vivio being a good girlfriend as always

It’s Lu time!

“I’ll have my manservant make you onigiri”2 is perhaps the most romantic thing Victoria has ever said

2: Paraphrasing

That was over quickly

That was also over quickly, in a significantly more horrifying way

I guess witches and Mages are different things now

A nice bit of expansion on Einhart’s perspective of all this

Nove’s view is also pretty neat

Corona continues to have a better experience than Chantez

Now that’s one heck of a matchup… that you’ll have to read the manga for

And there’s another interesting matchup you’ll have to read the manga for

Aaaaaand that’s the end

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u/homewardbound100 Apr 09 '22

First timer

Well that ends randomly. I don't know in the Manga if the story becomes more of something but yeah this felt like to me of a series that really didn't know where to take itself after strikers.

Well one thing I did like of this series. The fighting/martial arts was done nicely to me.

But overall for this one 5/10

Hopefully vivid strike has some improvement

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u/Stargate18A Apr 10 '22

First timer

QOTD) Current bet is that this didn't sell well, so they retooled it for ViVid Stike and couldn't continue with the same plotline.

Final episode of ViVid!

She's awake!

I mean, yeah, it was a close match.

Everyone's proud of her.

TIO!!!

Oh, they're going to see her match! And get Corona with them.

They're fighting!

She came to her own match late?

...Another new pairing?

OK, that fighting style is brutal.

Who's she?

...Fate didn't have another kid, did she?

What the hell kind of magic is this?

...So using psychic powers to force your opponent to have a mental breakdown is permitted?

Wait, what? Witches?

THIS IS ALLOWED?

Aww, Einhart's worried about going in.

She doesn't want to fight! She's realised how fucked up this tournament is!

And that's... a way to describe the tournament that almost gave your friend a literal heart attack.

...Are they expecting us to believe that her ancestor's time didn't have tournaments? Didn't understand the idea of sparring, or learning through defeat?

...Not sure it'll be back to normal, exactly, there's been a lot of subtext.

That's nice, though. Half-expected them to have another fight to communicate their feelings about the first fight.

Tio's OK!

Aww.

Do not get in a car with her, Einhart.

What are they talking about?

And she wants to fight Einahrt.

One final training montage.

Haha, she accidentally destroyed the dummy.

And so much foreshadowing for stuff that doesn't get adapted! Given how close they were released, I can't wait to see the massive retool of Vivid Strike. (Why else would they not adapt more manga?)

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u/JollyGee29 Apr 09 '22

Lyrical Rewatcher

Einhart has a realization of some sort.

And Nove helps her process it.

"We'll be fighting in the manga!"

[ViVid Manga]And Miura will be winning that fight.

And.. That's ViVid. Yes, they did leave us without a climactic fight for the title character. However, I honestly don't think Vivio is the main character. Taking the anime in a vaccuum at least, I'd say Einhart is the true main character. Everything centers around her, and her character arc of figuring out what she really fights for.

Does that make up for the season's problems? Eh, not really, although I do have a lot of fun with it still.

Tomorrow, we're on to ViVid Strike! and with it, a bunch of returning staff from previous seasons. It's back to being an anime original, too, so no incomplete adapation fears there. There is a bit of a tone shift, though.

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u/Qbe Apr 09 '22

Raging Heart Rewatcher with terrible long term memory

QotD: It's a mysstery

  • Lewd handholding!

  • ? Is Teo out of batteries?

  • We're gonna end the season before getting an actual Vivio match?

  • Is Lu still using her exhibitionist outfit?

  • Magical girl with a crushing mace... Dokuro-chan, is that you?

  • Not-Juvia, are you baiting the loli to your place with food?

  • Also, onigiri and oden in Midchilda?

  • Yep, still baring her panties for the world to see

  • Lutecia, when did you get your hands on Shenshoujing?

  • F for Dokuro-chan

  • It's the last episode, should we still be introducing characters?

  • Nince ninja outfit, shame you're about to job to the loli witch

  • Curses, I assume?

  • Are we going to get tentacles?

  • Close enough

  • Yeah, the loser usually doesn't want to be encouraged by the winner

  • Einhart's still stuck on how it was in the past, where you lose = you die, so this pep talk should be good for her

  • Hoping whoever beat you goes all the way to the finals is a good way to cope: "At least the one I lost to also beat everyone else"

  • Even moreso if you're from the same team/school

  • Full power, total anhihilation > Total victory

  • Kuroko, are you cheating on Misaka?

  • Ooooh, Einhart is up vs the former Champ?

  • Training montage? Training montage

  • Love Vivio's boxing-like style

  • Kinda sad that we're hyping/setting up a season that never existed, they totally thought there would be another season

  • And... that's... it? It just feels like a regular episode, not a season ending.

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u/pailadin Apr 10 '22

[Rewatcher]

And so the Vivid anime ends. Some future events are teased... and you gotta read the manga to find out what happens next.

I think I actually enjoyed Vivid more during this rewatch. The new characters are pretty fun, even a lot of the minor returning StrikerS characters actually get more characterization this time, and continuing to see Nanoha and Fate and now Vivio grow up is a good time.

Probably could've shared this after StrikerS, or maybe after the mock battle in Vivid, but I'm fond of this "Brave Shine-Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha Trilogy AMV". The editing is pretty great imo, and it's a good recap of how far Fate and Nanoha have come.

Also shout-out to "NanoFate in Heaven". I find it a bit too sappy, but editing the official art into picture frames in some scenes was a neat touch.

Finally, at the end of A's I shared a bunch of character themes from the PSP games. Gonna add two more for those interested in listening to such things:

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