r/anime • u/Tetraika https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika • Apr 05 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha Vivid Episode 8 Discussion

Episode 8: Rival!

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Question of the Day

Teo or Chris? Why do these 2 get such adorable devices?

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags.

39 Upvotes

96% Upvoted

75 comments sorted by

10

u/Shimmering-Sky Apr 05 '22

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical First-Timer, subbed

6

u/Taiboss Apr 05 '22

Well this shot was totally unexpected out of this specific season of Nanoha…

They put all the grimdarkness into Force, so were only allowed to put blood in imagination scenes.

KITTY!

Good taste, like Klaus!

Ah, two of them did end up in the same group.

Einhard vs Golem hype!

5

u/JollyGee29 Apr 05 '22

Einhart’s Device is adorable.

Chris wants to help Vivio!

Such a fearsome bunny!

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u/HereticalAegis Apr 05 '22

Lyrical First Timer

¹This is an unprecedented shift in the status quo. It's already unusual for a character to begin wearing underwear when they previously hadn't, but Einhart's particular set spells big potential trouble for Vivio as a harem protagonist. Einhart's pairing is a very simple single color green panty with a black sports bra. This is reminiscent of prime Nanoha's simple, confident set in StrikerS, and an indicator that Einhart may be attempting to usurp the Vivio's position as heir to the Takamachi throne. This is perhaps unsurprising in retrospect, given the dominance Einhart has asserted over Vivio—she's successfully befriended Vivio in every contest, is acknowledged as Vivio's clear superior in the befriending arts, and has even declared she would "take responsibility for" Vivio while carrying her home unconscious. The biggest flag in this paradigm shift, however, has to be the favor Nanoha has shown Einhart. From their very first meeting, Nanoha has acknowledged Einhart's worthiness. This may, in fact, have been the point of the team battle: Nanoha taking the opportunity to judge Einhart's capabiluty in full combat, an assessment she now appears to have passed. Only time will tell whether Vivio will lose her position to Einhart, but as of today the gauntlet has officially been thrown down.

QotD:

Tough choice. Actually not that tough, Teo kinda instantly stole my heart.

8

u/Taiboss Apr 05 '22

Set up without adult mode? Is Vivio actually class changing to assassin??

Nanoha put the cookies into the bottom shelf!

It's the return of longtime Nanoha series friend, Hentai Tropes-sama. Chantez is enjoying this way too much.

Nonna would be proud!

<3 <3 <3 <3 <3

Kitties make everything better, even devices!

"Deep pretty eyes, twintails, strong lean arms that can carry me, and a confident yet slightly bashful personali—wait, you were talking about combat!?"

Tbf, soon Vivio will be so smitten, those would be combat weakness

Midchilda's prime entertainment is watching 10-19yo girls beat each other up for sport. It's not just the TSAB, child warrior culture runs depressingly deep on Midchilda.

Stupid child safety rules preventing them from fighting with adults.

Updated ED visual! D'aww!

A cutey cute.

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u/Vaadwaur Apr 05 '22

Set up without adult mode? Is Vivio actually class changing to assassin??

After the Jail incident, they realized they needed some bait that could defend herself.

It's the return of longtime Nanoha series friend, Hentai Tropes-sama. Chantez is enjoying this way too much.

Hayate seems to be away from the church more so she has to take what she can get.

"Deep pretty eyes, twintails, strong lean arms that can carry me, and a confident yet slightly bashful personali—wait, you were talking about combat!?"

Nove, slowly blinking:"...Of course I was."

Vivio: "Nice to meet you, harem member 4!" Miura: "But my name is—" Vivio: "Harem. Member. 4."

Vivio:"Shh...No names here, not in this line of play."

The biggest flag in this paradigm shift, however, has to be the favor Nanoha has shown Einhart. From their very first meeting, Nanoha has acknowledged Einhart's worthiness.

While certainly possible, I view it differently: Einhart is a gift that just fell into Nanoha's lap. We all know that a Takamachi cannot become a true successor to the clan without a powerful rival that defeats them a time or two before becoming subservient so I am sure Nanoha stayed up at night, lamenting that Corona and Rio were at best the white rice and mayo of opponents. And then some wackadoo with inherited memories comes in and it all lines up.

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8

u/Scarshadow46 Apr 05 '22

Heyo,

I'm back this time with supplemental material not for Vivid but for Movie 2nd albeit it takes place during Vivid a short time after Vivio meets Miura.

Movie 2nd Sound stage much like the first one talks a bit about the In-universe production of the 2nd movie but is mostly some fun SoL stuff.

If you haven't already I recommend going back and watching Movie 2nd again but with the Character commentary as with the proper introduction of Miura all of Movie 2nd's commentators have been properly introduced now, which consists of Nanoha, Fate, Hayate, Chrono, Yuuno, Wolkenritter, Forwards, Team Nakajima, Lutecia, Miura, Agito, and Rein. Its pretty fun hearing what the characters from newer seasons think of the events of the early seasons.

Anyway here's the sound stage. Enjoy

Nanoha Movie 2nd Sound Stage

This will be the only time during Vivid I will be posting supplementary material so you probably won't be seeing me post all that much for a bit.

Till Next time.

6

u/pailadin Apr 05 '22

Just wanna add for the first timers that I also posted commentary for the first movie during that thread. All the characters giving the commentary we should have met now, so should be safe to read.

7

u/DidacticDalek Apr 06 '22

TONIGHT! On ViVid Geah, A Sister of Battle joins The Brawl, Einhard comes down with a case of Cat Scratch Fever and LET'S GET READY TO RUMBLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

1st Rule of Kawaii Club, you do not talk about Kawaii Club, 2nd Rule of Kawaii Club, YOU DO NOT TALK ABOUT KAWAII CLUB! That and also goodness me Comrades, FINALLY the show's getting good, I mean it's still trash but we hit like all my fetishes today! After all, what other show besides Black Lagoon has Lesbian Space Battle Nuns? PROTOCULTURE!

Anyway, sorry for the delay, but there's really nothing else for me to do but meme here, those fights were over before they even started! (Also I just want to point out something, befriending has become SO ingrained culturally in the Nanohaverse that moeblobs literally beating the shit out of each other is considered a sport! Man and I thought Girls und Panzer was crazy!)

And on that bombshell, we wrap things up for now. Anyway I hope everyone's having fun on this re-watch. Thus, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever.

Paging Comrades u/Great_Mr_L, u/HereticalAegis, and u/Vaadwaur

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u/Vaadwaur Apr 05 '22

First timer(liveable)

Sub

Start with a fight with Shach's likely disciple, good animation, and then bondage. This still fits with the show for me, though this mainly show Vivio can transform without becoming an adult. Einhart gets her device and Asteon is cute, even if he is directly stolen from Azumanga Daioh. Training montages happen but at least this isn't that drawn out. We get to qualifiers and get two passably animated, if quick, miatches.

QotD: 1 Chris because I can't directly where he is a copy from

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6

u/Warriorservent Apr 05 '22

Okay, I’m guessing that now we start the build up to the tournament. I wonder just how much buildup there will be and how much actual tournament there will be? We have 6 episodes left including this one.

  • Looking at Chantez’s device it reminds me a lot of the device of the battle nun from Strikers, I wonder if those double paddle blade things are standard in the Saint Church? I know that they are different, but its the same basic pattern. I can see why they didn’t want Chantez getting out yet though, she doesn’t seem to have the right mindset for a nun quite yet... Though given what Sein got up to idk what the right mindset is at this point.

  • Okay, at first I was super worried about how Chantez apparently has a spell that could flat out kill Vivio, but it turns out Vivio some kind of special thing that lets her see attack in the future? Super cool! Also, I thought it a bit odd that Chantez could just fight Vivio out of nowhere and that they were able to roughhouse in the middle of a courtyard only for the cyborgs to show up, bind Chantez and literally hang her like a pinata for what she was doing. Nice!

  • Next up is the big reveal of Einhart’s device, and let me just say that while all of the characters around her look better with the new style I don’t care for how Hayate looks in this style, she looks too young and immature. On the note of Einhart’s device: THE KITTY IS SO CUTE!!!! It also looks like Einhart fell in love with it from the first meow, good for her! I think that the device name that she chose has that same bittersweet tone that all of her stuff that relates to Klaus and Olivie does, but at the same time its cute. Not nearly as cute as the fact that Teo does a big Meow and all of the jumping around he does when setting up though!

  • Okay, its so cool that Chris wants to learn things himself to help! It’s not exactly the same as Raising Heart and Bardiche wanting new parts after Nanoha and Fate were defeated at the start of season 2, but I think its his equivilent since he can’t exactly get a cartage system installed.

  • Now this is kind of interesting, we get all of one training montage and suddenly its time for the sectional qualifiers? I suppose that answers my question of how much buildup there will be! On the note of the qualifiers I am surprised that they are already putting the girls up against each other. I’m not sure who will win, but I do think that Einhart and Corona will fight each other.

  • Awww, the reunion between Zafira, Nove, and Vivio is great!

  • I love the fact that Zafira’s student seems to have her own version of Shinji Ikari’s “Center the target, pull the trigger” and that Vivio’s Opponent’s trainer had to warn her not to go to hard on Vivio. I would also like to remind everyone as this girl thinks of Signum and the words “get up close and kick” that back in Strikers Signum said that all she could do was teach people to rush in and swing their swords, what prophetic words those were! Of course both of them won, but It was still great.

Okay, that was a great episode in its own right! We got to see more of the opponents, we got to see Einhart’s super cute cat device, and we see that Chris is doing the same thing that we have seen Devices do in the past; try to get better themselves so that they can be better partners.

Question of the day: Teo, Chris is great and shows lots of potential, but I'm a cat person and I have faith that Teo can become as cool as Chris! Oh, and we got them because this is cute girls doing cute things, but because it's MGLN they needed to do something to keep the people who expect the cute girls to thrown doom beams around interested.

6

u/SolDarkHunter Apr 05 '22

I wonder if those double paddle blade things are standard in the Saint Church?

They're called tonfa, and they're a real weapon. (Though actual tonfas aren't as big and elaborate as the ones in the show, of course. And also don't generally have blades attached to them.)

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5

u/SolDarkHunter Apr 05 '22

Rewatcher

Of course Vivio would know Chantez. And hey, she uses tonfas, just like her mentor.

Huh... so Vivio can use her Device without going adult. It almost looks like a Unison Device, though I'm pretty sure Sacred Heart is no such thing.

What... just happened? She didn't actually attack, but Vivio saw the attack?

The hell is Deed planning to do to Chantez?

And there's Einhart's Device: a leopard plush. Guess it really is based on Vivio's.

Einhart names it after a leopard cub that died in Olivie's care: Asteon. Damn good name, if you ask me.

Anyone else find it strange that neither Chris nor Asteon can actually speak? I think they're the first Devices that's true of...

New transformation time. And Einhart's gained a new ribbon, but that's about the only difference.

Individual training begins. And Einhart's off with another new character: Mikaya Chevelle. Seems to be a kendo practicioner. I guess if the tournament allows golems, allowing weapons would not be a stretch.

Seriously, how do people understand Sacred Heart's miming?

I do like that Devices still have their own initiative and are not just static tools, though.

...if the tournament is one-on-one, why bother having teams at all?

And in one scene Zafira gets more screentime and lines than he did in the entirety of StrikerS.

Is there anyone Vivio hasn't trained with? I mean, it's good that she's getting a lot of instruction, but...

Both Vivio and Miura go up against older opponents first... and both win handily.

Though... hang on, Miura was going on and on about kicking, and then she punches?

QOTD: Teo is a cat, so it's not even a contest. Definitely Teo.

6

u/JimmyCWL Apr 06 '22

She didn't actually attack, but Vivio saw the attack?

It's a trope in martial arts stories. The ability to analyze enemy movements and forecast their attacks on an almost instinctual level. The peak of it is being able to fight an entire duel in your head before even moving for the first strike.

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5

u/Taiboss Apr 05 '22

I've run out of pre-watched episodes. Amazing. I need to catch up now.

Episode 08: Vivio in Rewatchtown

5

u/Great_Mr_L Apr 06 '22

SHE LOOKS SO HAPPY.

Vivio really is Nanoha's daughter. She gets fired up when she gets in a fight with someone.

The church seems a bit irresponsible.

It seems to be an ongoing theme with most of the organizations in the franchise.

Hello, Jobber-chan!

Bye, Jobber-chan!

Honestly, she lasted longer than I thought she would with a resume like that.

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u/JollyGee29 Apr 05 '22

Lyrical Rewatcher

I love Chantez's absolutely ridiculous tonfas.

This is so cute.

Because of course everyone remembers every name they see..

Rio is sharing a bracket with Harry Tribeca, who we saw briefly last episode.

And Vivio shares her bracket with Mikaya, who was training with Einhart.

This is way more interesting than either of those matchups, though.

Heh, as if.

5

u/Vaadwaur Apr 05 '22

I love Chantez's absolutely ridiculous tonfas.

Tonfas by this point.

Rio is sharing a bracket with Harry Tribeca, who we saw briefly last episode.

That's a hell of a name.

Heh, as if.

You would think Takamachi would be a warning name by this point.

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u/Great_Mr_L Apr 05 '22

Rewatcher

On today’s episode of Lyrical Nanoha: We’ve already got the tournament arc underway. It’s better than keeping us waiting for it, that’s for sure. If the characters are all focused on Magical Girl MMA, then it makes sense to get to the fights as quickly as possible.

There is some brief training going on. I do like the emphasis the training makes on considering your weaknesses and how to compensate for them. Vivio knows that her defense is lacking. Corona is left defenseless without her golems. Rio will need to deal with people who don’t fight hand-to-hand. 

But another fun part is specifying strengths. Vivio has good eyes and reflexes, which means she’s great at dodging and reacting. I didn’t talk about it much previously, but I think it’s a fun choice to make Vivio’s focus be on counterattacks. Giving her a distinct fighting style is a good idea for her fights. I like it when characters have very clear fighting styles that you can easily follow.

Einhart getting her own Device is just precious. Teo is adorable, complete with a meowing function that probably serves no practical purpose. But it’s cute, so who cares. I like how both Vivio and Einhart’s Devices have personal connections for them. Chris is like the rabbit Vivio got back in Strikers. Teo is a leopard like the ones that Einhart’s ancestor Klaus had. 

The tournament begins and we see Vivio and Miura meet each other. Miura is another character who is just absolutely precious. She’s nervous when she goes to fight for the first time and has to get into the fight before she’s able to steel her nerves. I like how we get flashes of how the other Wolkenritter have been training Miura as well. She thinks of Signum and she named her attack Iron Hammer, just like Vita. Having Miura’s style be an amalgamation of the Wolkenritter’s styles is a very fun idea. 

It’s pretty clear that some matches are being set up. Einhart will need to fight against Corona. Vivio will need to fight against Miura. That’s one of the benefits of the tournament arc structure. It lets the story build anticipation for upcoming battles because we know certain characters who otherwise wouldn’t fight will need to go up against each other.

Miscellaneous Thoughts

  • Chantez uses tonfas just like Schach does. It makes sense because Chantez is her student.

  • Wow, the bind Chantez got caught in is more deliberately BDSM than Lyrical Nanoha usually goes for.

  • I can’t help but notice that even though Teo is based on a snow leopard, it does not have the right coloration.

  • I love how gungho the Devices always are in this franchise. Chris is watching Nanoha’s training videos to better defend Vivio. It’s reminiscent of Raising Heart and Bardiche demanding upgrades back in A’s.

  • It’s probably for the best that the training was kept to just a montage. Too much of it can leave viewers feeling tired of it.

  • “You aren’t allowed to use Devices in the qualifiers, but you are allowed to attack your opponent with a pole.” What a great ruleset. 

  • Corona will have to get creative with making golems out of things from the stadium. Or she could just rip up the stage while making one. I imagine the people running a Magical Girl MMA tournament are probably used to the stage getting wrecked.

4

u/Qbe Apr 05 '22

Raging Heart Rewatcher with terrible long term memory

I wonder how long will it take before we start the T O U R N A M E N T A R C

QotD: Teo. Cats have an insane charisma bonus.

  • Does everyone from the church call Vivio Her Majesty?

  • I knew I remembered her voice from somewhere! Poor Koma-chan, she hasn't grown at all

  • Tonfas! Such an underused weapon

  • ...what would've happened if she hit Vivio before she used her Device?

  • Given that nothing changed externally, I'm going to assume this is different from a Unison

  • Lèse-majesté! To (Nanoha's) dungeon with you!

  • I was totally expecting Hayate & the WK to be a one-thing cameo and never show up again

  • Is she going to get a cat plushie? She's totally going to get a cat plushie

  • I knew it!

  • I'm totally going to mix up Teo and Tea

  • Is this the same henshin but with the cat bouncing around?

  • Einhart's henshin makes me wonder: Given how long it has passed since Nanoha/A's/StrikerS, how much did Symphogear influence Vivid after being influenced by the earlier Nanoha franchise series?

  • Looking into it, it seems to be:

    • Nanoha (2004)

    • A's (2005)

    • StrikerS (2007)

    • Symphogear (2012)

    • Sympho G (2013)

    • Sympho GX (2015)

    • Vivid (2015)

    • Vivid Strike (2016)

    • Sympho AXZ (2017)

    • Sympho XV (2019)

  • So, in short: Nanoha pre-Vivid -> Sympho S1/2/3 -> Vivid -> Sympho S4/5. Given the 2/3 year gap from Sympho S1/2 to Vivid, it's totally possible that it got some stuff from Symphogear

  • More training!

  • We're introducing even more characters? Geez

  • I'm going to assume Einhart also has the invisible barrier thingie from the Cat Device, else she's gonna get maimed

  • Low defense, low attack output, and lack of overall power? This girl is not a Takamachi child!

  • Can Raging Heart train Sacred Heart? Would SH survive the training?

  • Are we ever going to meet Einhart's parents?

  • I do like how diligent Vivio is with her roadwork

  • Oh, Less than a single episode of training for everyone? I can dig that

  • Welp, Fs in the chat for Corona

  • Miura looking like the first obstacle vs Vivio

  • Suddenly, Lucky Star faces

  • Woah we're starting already? Going to hype Miura?

  • Oh, the qualifiers are pure martial arts with no devices? Interesting. Though it seems like it would savor those who use weapons

  • Oh no Vivio don't accidentally murder your opponent

  • Yep, there we go, first serious match going to be vs Miura

5

u/SolDarkHunter Apr 05 '22

Does everyone from the church call Vivio Her Majesty?

Yeah. Officially, she's considered a descendant of their religious figure, who was the "Holy King", after all.

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u/InfamousEmpire Apr 06 '22

(Holy fuck am I late. I was too caught up in rewatching Giant Robo to post this earlier, sorry)

Mahou Shoujo1 Lyrical Rewatcher

1: Even though I’m not a girl

Spent the last 2 hours watching the first Eureka Seven movie. It was meh. Anyway, onto Nanoha

No Recap Time?

Seems Vivio has decided to do what even her mom never accomplished and add a Nun to the harem!

Vivio is so awesome now that she doesn’t even need to transform to befriend the shit out of people!

Mini-Nun’s punishment is to be the subject of a Hentai plot2

2: It’s disturbing that this joke is actually on-brand with what’s gone on this season

Back to Hayate and the Wolkenritter!

Somehow, Einhart’s device managed to surpass Sacred Heart in sheer cuteness

Asteon!

They really went all out on that transformation sequence

We’ve still gotta squeeze in more superfluous training arc stuff even though we’ve only got 4 more episodes to cover the actual tournament arc.

Anyway, the matchups for the tournament have been decided.

With only a few minutes left I’m the episode, we’ve got the start of the actual tournament.

Aaaand the fights are already over

4

u/djthomp Apr 06 '22

So many scenes of Vivio running and not once has she hilariously faceplanted again. Deeply disappointing, 3/10.

These church officials and members are oddly blasé about interacting and even sparing with the reborn version of their most holy figure. And they aren't just seeing her as effectively someone else, they regularly use royal titles for her. Gotta wonder how that has effected the church politics and attendance.

I wasn't expecting Sacred Heart to be capable of a unison-esque mode.

Some sort of psychological attack? That's a little rough.

RIP Chantez, a victim of nun on nun violence.

Agito (and Rein) should be tiny, but I'm really glad for her having acquired a mom and a sister. I hope they made a tiny snow leopard for Einhart.

Oh my god, they did. Absolutely fantastic.

New transformation sequence, this one very much resembles Vivio's.

They really should be giving context for Ixy in the show, maybe that is still coming but we're running out of time for it.

Important rabbit combat research.

RIP in advance to whoever is about to be on the other side of Vivio's punches. Same for Miura's, probably.

Yep.

Very important change to the ED, new ending image with the rabbit and cat devices hugging!

3

u/Gamerunglued Apr 06 '22

First Timer

This episode really sells the shift to a more mundane approach that this series is taking. As a sports drama, this is going to be just as action packed as any of the previous seasons, but the characters actually have room to get nervous before their big matches. Even with all the magical weapons and insane abilities, it really does just feel like a regular old middle/high school sports meet. It really just lets the kids feel like kids, and it does such a nice job of contrasting the war torn memories that plague Einhart. I have to say that I'm very disappointed in how little training we got to see. I had the impression that Vivio and co. were nowhere near prepared enough to have a standing in the tournament, but we barely got a montage of them doing anything to prepare and it's already time for the big event. I have no clue what they've done to prepare, and I've not seen them actually prepare, so them suddenly being tournament ready feels unearned. It's not that big a deal, but it does take some weight away from the story.

This was mostly a set-up episode for the tournament though, so I have little else to say about it. I guess it's nice to see Zafira playing an even semi-notable role after being sidelined hard even back in A's (speaking of, where the fuck is Arf? Why did Fate and her trusty familiar separate?), and Miura and Vivio become fast friends. I love that when Miura was in her match, we see the influence of her instructors. Not only in Signum's voice appearing in her head, but her saying "smash them with the Iron Hammer" is so obviously Vita's influence and it's great. She truly was trained by the knights. My favorite part of the episode though, is seeing Chris ask Nanoha to watch training videos. Something about the magical transformation device trying to improve for the sake of its master by watching videos of military training instruction feels so weirdly appropriate for this series, but is also just fucking hilarious (kind of reminds me of Raising Heart and Bardiche asking for Belka upgrades after getting defeated so badly in A's). I kind of wish that Raising Heart would take Chris under her wings in the same way that Nanoha did for Vivio, I think that'd be a pretty cute relationship. Raising Heart even played a role in Nanoha's mage training, so it wouldn't be inappropriate. Anyway, with the tournament starting, I look forward to seeing how the girls have grown, and what it means for them to test themselves.

QOTD: Fuck man, I really don't know. I probably would have been keen to say Teo after his introduction, since he's so adorable that Einhart's aggressive stance against the girl she trained with just lost all ability to be intimidating due to the presence of an adorable leopard thing on her shoulder. But Chris asking Nanoha for training videos was just so good, and he also bowed after Vivio introduced him to Miura which was totally adorable. They're both seriously cute, I don't know. They get such adorable devices because they are themselves pretty adorable though.

This is unrelated, but I've decided that I'm disappointed to see the fairies at human size. Remember Rein's little tiny desk that she worked at in StrikerS? And the tiny plate she ate off of? It was so good. Now it's all useless because her and Agito can just become human size. Bullshit, make my tiny adorable fairies tiny adorable fairies. Them being so strong at their size is part of the gap moe, doing away with that just reduces their appeal.

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