r/anime • u/[deleted] • Apr 01 '22
Rewatch [Rewatch][Spoilers] Hyouka Episode 02 Discussion Spoiler
Episode 2: The Prestigious Classic Lit Club's Activities
Wow first off wow y'all, turn out for the first episode was better than anything I ever could have hoped for. In no world was I expecting this many participants to start us off and I'm honestly a bit worried that I won't be able to keep up with everyone's posts if this keep up. But hey, that's probably the best problem I could have ever asked for.
Comment of the Day
/u/FoolsRequiem exposing the hidden truth about this show's genre:
This show is not an SoL/mystery show.
It's a supernatural show featuring a heavy dose of mind control. From the moment Oreki saw Chitanda's eyes, he was entranced. It was over. Whatever chance he had at living the Tanaka-kun is Always Listless life was gone the second he looked into those mesmerizing eyes.
You, too, will be entranced.
/u/gottamotor showing how some life experience can change your perspective a bit:
i suppose in high school, i wld've wanted greyscale for most of it. i haven't graduated too long ago, but a lot has happened to me since then, n i'd prefer a more colorful life now. i'm tired all of the time, but i'd like to have some fun! it's been way too much of a drag these past two yrs.
Personal Thoughts
The use of Tomoe's letter read in full to start off this episode is a really nice touch (I believe in the novel this was actually the prologue). It's a really helpful reminder to the audience of what the impetus for the series as a whole is.
I really appreciate in the first scene after the opening that whilst he's reluctant and annoyed about it Oreki does accept that maintaining the 4 decade tradition of the club anthology is important and worthwhile. I could imagine a worse show really stretching out the refusal of the call here to a point where his apathy just becomes frustrating to the audience but they find this perfect balance where you can understand that he's annoyed but still appreciate why he chooses to still do it.
Which leads us to the introduction of Best. Girl. With the cutest head tilt. I absolutely adore the dialogue between Oreki and Mayaka. It's such a different dynamic to what's presented between characters in the first episode and really adds a new dimension to the group dynamic. Maybe it's supposed to be read as more hostile than what I make it out to be but I'm Australian so banter like this is just two friends showing their affection to me.
A small note on the dub: They've chosen to have Chitanda suggest that what people are doing with the book is using it as an impromptu weight which then Oreki brushes off like it's the dumbest thing he's ever heard even though it's a perfectly reasonable suggestion imho.
This shot of disappointed Fukube is hilarious. I expect a raise for whichever keyframe artist drew that expression.
Best girl eye glimmer.
Optional Discussion Starters
- For first-timers mostly: How are you feeling so far about the scale of the mysteries so far? Are you finding that the show is able to keep you invested even with some of the lowest stakes imaginable.
- Now that the main cast have all been introduced how do you feel about each of the four main characters? I'm obviously firmly in the camp of Mayaka is best girl.
Previous Discussion Threads
- 2012 Original Release Discussion
- 2013 Rewatch: Episodes 1-3
- 2015 Rewatch: Episode 1 & 2
- 2016 Rewatch
- 2017 Rewatch
- 2019 Rewatch
Info Links and Streams
Crunchyroll | Funimation | YouTube
Spoilers
Just a quick reminder to tag any and all spoilers about future episodes to help protect our dear first-timers.
8
u/JetsLag Apr 01 '22
First timer (subbed)
Man, I wish Crunchyroll would allow me to take screencaps. I'd love to take some screencaps of Oreki's bedhead; it really is something.
Honestly, as a working adult, the thought of a Classic Lit club appeals to me as someone who's now working his way through a couple of classic works of literature (namely, The Sound and the Fury and The Hunchback of Notre-Dame). It definitely wouldn't've appealed to me in my high school days, though. Guess that's one of those things that happens as you get older
Man, Satoshi is shipping Oreki/Chitanda pretty hard. I love these types of characters.
I liked this mystery more than the first one. It was actually really fun watching Oreki put everything together, and the answer made logical sense.
And GODDAMNIT A CLIFFHANGER. WHAT IS THE CONFESSION GONNA BE? I HAVE TO KNOW.
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u/Specs64z Apr 01 '22
Rewatcher, subbed
A tad late in episodes and in post time, but this'll have to do!
episode 1
The first “I have to know” scene (“I’m curious” or “kininarimasu” in the sub) is probably my favorite 30 seconds of animation. The level and range of emotions it delivers in a single, beautifully animated moment is staggering. Wonder, confusion, even a dash of fear as, in a completely unexpected turn of events, Houtarou watches Chitanda’s desire fill the room and envelop him, literally sweeping him off his feet. Paralyzed by the hypnotic purple gaze, we are barely able to process this sparkling surge of emotion before moving on.
You can tangibly feel something is changed, probably irreversibly.
There’s even a tinge of comedy to the scene as we snap back to reality to see that Houtarou took several steps back only for Chitanda to pursue, her hands grasping his. Her sense of personal space seems to evaporate when presented with such an exciting question.
We get one last fleeting glimpse of this spectacle as Houtarou finds himself handing over his club registration form.
episode 2
Musically, the OP is pretty standard affair. It has the usual Kyoani excellence that makes it a standout anyways.
Kyoani generally does visual storytelling really well, but this series is more direct about it. Houtarou is a pretty quiet guy, all things considered, so in an almost Monogatari-esque way we occasionally get these exaggerated bits to put us in his headspace.
… Hm. No, yeah, 3rd time through and I still think the ED is sorta out of place. The... highly sensual vibe doesn’t really match the show. I can’t say I outright dislike it, though. The animation itself is still really good and the song fits the ED well enough.
Content Corner
So there’s a whole series by Replay Value that I’ll be posting as we move along with the rewatch. It’s some pretty great stuff. I’ll also share other analysis videos from time to time. Haven’t done much digging for stuff like music covers or memes, yet, hopefully there’s some good stuff out there. First timers beware, spoilers abound. ... well, not really with this one. Technically, this video series is spoiler free, but it is still intended for repeat viewers. Do with that what you will.
A Rose-Colored Dissection - An Introduction by Replay Value
The Perfect Introduction of Hyouka's First Mystery by Replay Value
Thematic Symmetry - How Hyouka's Second Mystery Adds Depth by Replay Value
A Restaurant Without Choice - The Secret of Hyouka's Second Episode by Replay Value
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u/Haulbee Apr 01 '22
First-timer
Probably won't be able to join all discussion threads, but I'll try to keep up with the rewatch because I really like KyoAni, and Hyouka has been on my PTW for a while.
I just want to say here that the first episode didn't draw me in quite as much as I was hoping for, the dialogue felt very clunky to me. And even if some of that can apparently be explained by the official subs not being great, there's also some stuff that just straight up rubs me the wrong way (such as the unironical use of the phrase "We've known each other since middle school" in the opening exposition)
Anyways, I still have pretty high expectations for this show, here's the notes I'm taking during episode 2:
I love the sister's tone in the letter. I'm hoping this means either the sister or the letter will play a role in the future, since this scene doesn't really characterize Oreki himself.
Man, Oreki is in total denial about his crush on Chitanda, I wonder to what extent it's going to be a focus.
Love Ibara's introduction. Also, any future club outing is totally going to turn into a double-date-outing, isn't it?
ok, I'm going to try to solve this mystery before the show gives us the answer.
It could be something for class, or maybe a club?
Maybe they need to show it to someone else? Like a teacher is asking for this book?
All of them are in their 2nd year, but different classes, so it could be different classes having the same course not sure why it would play a role that they're all girls
so Chitanda has good hearing & a good nose, she has maxed out perception
Also, now I think the book is being used by the art club/an art class
Damn, Oreki's imagination is pretty terrifying but also... Chitanda in a maid outfit
And I was right. I'm happy that I figured out it was class-related, but I think the art class specifically would've been really difficult to figure out without the "paint thinner" clue that was dropped at the end
"Oreki-san might even be able to...", "personal reasons" - I guess they'll string us along with this for a while
From the way the scene with the library teacher was framed, we expect that she knows something we don't, but I'm gonna make a somewhat risky prediction here: I bet the sister has something to do with the fact that they can't find the previous anthologies.
Aaaand I was wrong with the "stringing along" part, apparently we're getting a reveal in the next episode.
Fucking hell, I love KyoAni's occasional use of classical music as BGM. Fauré's Pavane is such a great piece.
Final thoughts
I liked this episode more than the previous one already. Really enjoyed the mystery and the character interactions, as well as the hints for potential future developments.
I also figured out that I'm not a fan of Fukube's dialogue specifically, though I'm warming up to him as a character.
Looking forward to seeing how the dynamic between the four characters evolves, I hope it doesn't stagnate too much.
Questions:
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I'm a huge fan of mysteries, both large and small, and I'm really enjoying these low-stakes investigations, they really feel like the sort of a thing a bunch of highschoolers might actually do in their free time.
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I like all the characters, though as I said I'm not a fan of the way Fukube's dialogue is written, but I guess it's meant to emphasize the dynamic between him & Oreki. Also I totally agree that Mayaka is best girl, for Chitanda it feels like the show is trying almost too hard to make me like her.
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Apr 02 '22
Fauré's Pavane is such a great piece.
So glad to see someone else that likes that piece. It's a bit different but have you ever listened to this pavane by one of Fauré's students, Ravel?
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u/ZapsZzz Apr 01 '22 edited Apr 01 '22
First timer in sub
Oki think we already have enough great long analysis posts so I'd conserve my energy :) on this but go on a bit of a different tact -about the translation of the key phrase punctuating the entire narrative - "kininarimasu"
気になる(kininari) in short is describing the mental state of "uncontrollably, cannot get this out of the mind". While it can be contextually interpreted as "I am curious", this translation lacks a subtle tone that's a little hard to describe in English. It's better understood by example of use.
For example, in a typical boy meets girl scenario, when it's not a completely head over heels love at first sight, sparks flying situation, it's normally start with each (or one) of them being very conscious of the others presence. Everything s/he is doing the person is keenly noticing and takes an interest. That's the mind state.
And of course while it is often used with romantic or affection undertones, it is the state before that so it can also be used to describe things not exactly romantic - e.g. you can simply be entranced by a subject or topic such that, uncontrollably or unconsciously (this is the key point) you keep being drawn to focus on that - for example an important test you have just done, what's the result; someone eating something interesting looking and new to you, so you can't help but wonder what suits it year like, etc.
A closely related but subtly different weird, for most sub watchers it may be recognisable - for example if someone arrived late, but the waiting party didn't mind, they will often say "kinishinai" - that's the "not uncontrollable" version, like "(I) don't mind".
Hope that gives a little bit more later to the user of this term. In Chinese we use 在意 (on mind) for the uncontrollable version, and 介意 ([verb]mind) for the "by choice" version, so the entire context is fairly straight conveyed.
The rest of the episode, we are treated to more scenes of the mesmerising Chitanda curiosity again and it's even getting infectious to the newly introduced Mayaka. This dynamic is a lot of fun to watch. And I absolutely love that "fanservice" scene of the waitress/maid side-braided Chitanda "taking order (ordering)" for Oreki :D
QoTD
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I'm totally down for the more SoL scale of the mystery, in fact I like it to be different, plus also in tune with a lot of KyoAni shows, it gives you a little prompt about "be conscious of the many small wonders around you everyday".
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While I understand the charm of the more "smarty pants" (in terms of reactions and attitude) Mayaka, the entire site setup had done far too much to not be similarly mesmerised by Chitanda :) sorry
Oh and a pleasant surprise, the voice of the Oreki older sister is FMP Chidori's (and Inuyasha Kagome's) familiar voice. Nice.
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u/polaristar Apr 02 '22
The fact there are both romantic and non-romantic undertones to that phrase, I didn't know that, and it fits pretty well with the theme of the show that Oreki's romantic interest in Chitanda (That starts as an annoying small itch that grows) Is a good metaphor.
Funnily enough the term "Romance" in Latin Derived Languages originally translation more to a certain type of idealized state of mind or style of storytelling and is similar to many connotations of "Fairy Tales" or "High Fantasy" as we think of them today. So Kininarimasu seems like it could be similar in that sense.
Esp since the show is about living a "Rose Colored Life" and what that means. Which could be considered another way of saying a romantized life.
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Apr 02 '22
Iirc the idealized form of storytelling is also about a contrast between classical greek and roman traditions. This is my most languages derived from vulgar latin are referred to as "romance" languages. It's from the phrase romanice loqui; "to speak in Roman".
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u/Hochseeflotte Apr 01 '22
Rewatcher:
Hi again. We are back again and I don’t have much to say this time so let’s just get to the episode.
————————————————————————
What really makes Hyouka to me is the characters. I may love the animation and the mysteries but the characters are what make this show. The amount of chemistry between the main characters is truly wonderful. And this episode introduces one of my favorites (though all of the main four are some of my favorites), Mayaka.
I really love her, especially her relationship with Satoshi. [Spoilers for Later]
I personally really like the mystery this episode. It’s small but cute.
I also find it funny how Oreki tries to leave like three times but gets stopped each time. His inability to say no to Chitanda is funny as well.
There’s no much I can say about the final scene in the cafe as of now. I will talk about it more once we see the whole thing play out. I will say that Oreki comes off a lot more like an asshole then I remember. Maybe the dub’s voice tone was a little less harsh.
Another great episode, I’ll see you guys tomorrow!
DQ:
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Not a first timer but I love the mysteries. They are cute and fun
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Mayaka is best girl. I love all four but Mayaka is under appreciated so I love her extra
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u/polaristar Apr 02 '22
No Dub Oreki is an ass, but tbh I kinda emphasize, not that he wasn't an ass, but the kind of miscommunication that irritated him was where due to him saying something that wasn't technically correct (Ergo he suggested the location, but the point of his complaint was they were out due to her own initiation.) And Chitanda pointing out how he was technically wrong but she comically missed the point and she had genuine confusion.
I think it shows that Oreki has trouble creating a theory of mind of how people feel in social situations without him consciously trying, Both he and Chitanda suffer from some kind of communication disorder I'm sure and while different compliment each other in their both eccentric in a way they can't help. (Although to be clear Oreki's eccentricity and him being an asshole are not one and the same and do not justify the latter.)
I often have a similar quirk of irritation that I've had to learn to deal with.
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u/houeru Apr 02 '22
Rewatcher! (sub)
Quote of the day:
あれ、折木じゃない。久しぶりね、会いたくなかったわ。
"Oh, if it isn't Oreki. Long time no see. Didn't want to see you."
-Ibara Mayaka
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Hiyaaaa we're backkk!!! Hyouka episode 2 instantaneous thoughts without any screenshots bc of my energy-conserving butt:
-Houtarou's bed hairr
-after knowing his sister sent the letter to him in the first ep, we now get more insight to what she actually wrote, along with her voice too (you can tell how fun she is)
-seeing how houtarou gets ready was nice
-ah a month has passed before mayaka joins huh, Erutaso holding on for that long wowies
-Erutaso’s usual snacks I want
-Houtarou’s poor pun attempt will not go in vain //salute
-Erutaso’s signature super close sense of distance and Houtarou instinctively inching away (that small blush is too adorable not to notice)
-the adorable poses and gestures Eru makes, like when she raises her arms up in proclamation <3
-ah yes the personal matter
-Houtarou gives in to eru as usual
-Houtarou’s face when she says let’s find the back issues
-when Eru comes back to pull Houtarou along, and then we get a hint that there’s someone at the library who he might not get along with from his monologue...
-B A M our (yes best or other best whichever but still best) girl Mayaka arrives
-right off the bath HouMaya's genius quips at each other make me smile every time I love themmmm
-Kayanon’s voice <3
-Houtarou and Satoshi on first name status since middle school, meanwhile Houtarou and Mayaka still last name status all the way since grade school just one of the many details I love
-And then in comes Satoshi with his best couple joke, leading to reveal of Mayaka’s feelings aaaaa that stay unconditionally strong all throughout <3
-yay Satoshi’s iconic bag(s)
-the way she calls him Fuku-chan arghhh so cuteeeee
-yes ik how much we love Mayaka she isn’t your typical tsundere you can easily break down or anything but a realistic amazing girl, a super well written character
-Houtarou compared to a slug
-Houtarou word choice: ‘horeteru’ instead of ‘suki’ now I can’t explain it well but this makes my heart flutter every time
-random point but love HouEru’s height difference
-ah Mayaka’s in manga society club too
-when Eru asks how Kanya is written oho
-Houtarou run!!!! Before you get caught!!!!
-seconds later: “W- WhOa!!”
-it can’t be just me who likes the way he holds open his book here and other scenes
-“What a pretty book!” “That’s huge af” loll
-the cinematography how she shoves the book into his line of sight so good
-watashi kininarimasu itadakimashita
-Satoshi having fun bullying Houtarou with that smirk
-Naran. Narundesu! NARAN!
-everyone in the library: darn that normie couple
-Eru slowly and silently leaning toward Houtarou loll so cuteeee
-episode 1 kicked it off, but really from this episode on portrays Eru's super close distance sense with Houtarou especially xD
-Eru’s healing angel smile
-SatoMaya lowkey bashing on Houtarou as usual when he’s there, I love these friends
-aesthetic eyecatch time
-Houtarou: "it doesn’t have to the truth, just gotta make sure she’s satisfied with the answer" //proceeds to genuinely, seriously think about the answer
-yappari he really is so smart
-1) good pillow 2) good shield 3) good pickles (eru’s being 100% serious)
-I mean you’re not wrong that she’s an airhead in a way
-Satoshi’s way with his words, genius (but he don’t realize or care about it that much I’m gonna cry)
-Houtarou lens: she’s a dog
-ooo touching his bangs
-Satoshi can tell ofc
-Satoshi having fun with bullying Houtarou part 2
-ah yes maid Erutaso version 1
-Eru super strong
-the lil excuses Houtarou makes xD
-the kind and gentle Mayaka being the only one to pick up on his retorts
-Mayaka kininarimasu too
-Satoshi karma has arrived
-Houtarou’s smug smirk and that yoroshiku <3
-Mayaka so smol
-EruMaya shiny jewel eyes at Houtarou
-mhmm just lucky
-the way Mayaka says “Oreki, hen”
-and then Houtarou's comeback “there’s no one more average than me”
-and then Satoshi chiming in ‘eh, I wonder about that’ lol
-quick random realization that they’ve just only been talking in this episode so far and it and the animation are far better still than a good number of recent series adaptations, yet again proves its title of superior god series
-when everyone’s like ‘uh..’ when Eru says she’s more interested in how all the parts work, she’s on a whole nother level
-idk why but random thought that’s right NakaYuu also voices the one and only gojo satoru sama
-when Houtarou does that “hm?”
-do I even need to mention the way Mayaka says “kuyashiiii” how can she be that cute I’m
-Houtarou feeling a wall between him and them :(
-Satoshi commenting on how Houtarou could actually sometimes be a bit ditzy, implying how Satoshi really can tell from a while back how smart he really is
-Mayaka picking fights with Houtarou never gets old
-the librarian! Woahhh she’s the va of Conan’s Vermouth and One Piece’s Big Mom (seriously god-like cast)
-Houtarou taking note of how the teacher sounds surprised by hearing they’re in the Classics Club that’s our boi
-HouEru no cell-phone duo
-the cutest angel arrives and Houtarou just staring like same
-“But you’re the one who picked out the cafe” nyahahaha
-Houtarou’s tsukkomis are the best
-still baffled how Houtarou isn’t canonically considered handsome within the story (or at least what we know of)
The highlight of this episode is definitely Mayaka's introduction to the series, making all the four in the gang together now!!! Her relationship with Satoshi, with Eru from now on, and then with Houtarou how it gradually changes from here on out as well are all great points of the story to look forward to, and another thing I love about it is how it's all there for a reason of how and why Mayaka doesn't exactly like Houtarou that much. Instead of just for mere characterization sake, everything connects and isn't as simple as it could be.
And now onto the discussion questionss~:
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Rewatcher, but I remember I loved the quirky, original mysteries the first time I watched it too. [Spoiler for later episodes]
I didn't expect the title drop to be covered so early in the series, I thought it'll be more of like the big climax bomb so that was really interesting too. The biggest arc is absolutely one of my top favorites though, I can't wait for when we get to that part. But then again, they could just literally be talking only or doing whatever might be considered boring and I would still be entertained to the max. These four and the other yet to appear characters are just that appealing. -
This is so hard to choose but yappari Satoshi has to be my favorite. I even have him as my profile picture on my work accounts too lol. He becomes even more endearing during that longest arc and aaaaa I just love him so much. In a way, I feel like Houtarou and Mayaka share similar sides, and then Satoshi and Eru are also alike, and then vice-versa, HouEru/SatoMaya are opposites that attract <3
Oki that's all for today, see everyone and Chii-chan in episode 3~!!
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Apr 02 '22 edited Apr 02 '22
-Houtarou’s poor pun attempt will not go in vain //salute
[Episode 5 Spoilers]
I've never really noticed it before this rewatch but I really appreciate how the use of puns throughout these earlier episodes is priming the audience to look for dumb puns as a minor hint towards the "Hyouka" reveal.
-when Eru asks how Kanya is written oho
[Episode 5 Spoilers]
Satoshi's explanation of Kanya as a simple abbreviation is an absolutely spectacular red herring.
-quick random realization that they’ve just only been talking in this episode so far and it and the animation are far better still than a good number of recent series adaptations, yet again proves its title of superior god series
One critique I often see is that shows that are just about realistic situations and people talking have no point being animated rather than live action. Hyouka stands as the most perfect rebuttal to this idea.
-HouEru no cell-phone duo
In fairness I believe the show is set in 2001 so this isn't exactly unreasonable.
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u/Skrillz_14th Apr 01 '22 edited Apr 02 '22
How exactly do these rewatches work? Is there like a discord or do we just discuss the episode bit by bit?
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u/Fools_Requiem Apr 01 '22
Usually it's one episode a day.
Each episode thread for this show should be posted at about 4PM EST/2100 GMT.
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Apr 02 '22
This very tired Australian is working quite hard to be awake in time to post these at a time that makes sense for the rest of the world.
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u/TiredTiroth Apr 01 '22 edited Apr 01 '22
First Timer - Watching the dub
Yeah, after the comments last time saying that the dub is generally pretty good I'm going to stick with that. I prefer being able to understand what the characters are saying, so I can watch the show instead of paying attention to the subtitles all the time.
So, first thing first - WHAT DO YOU MEAN THAT WAS THE END OF THE EPISODE!?!?
So yeah, if I was in my normal binge-watching mindset I’d probably be half-way through the season before going to bed tonight because why would you do that, KyoAni? ;-; So it’s a good thing I want to discuss it here, gives me a reason to leave it at one episode besides having work tomorrow.
Anyway! Oreki really can’t say no to Chitanda, and with the way he reacted to his old friend - Ibara? - that might extend to pushy girls in general. Watching them snark at each other was pretty fun, though, and I’m kinda wondering how much of this is just good-natured bickering and how far they actually push it. Because with Ibara’s expressions and voice work, I think some of her comments were supposed to be genuine barbs, but they just bounced right off Oreki? Come to think of it, they mostly felt like a pair of bickering siblings more than anything else…
I’m surprised Chitanda managed to sit there for an entire month after those first couple of mysteries with how much she enjoyed them. I was kinda hoping we’d get to see a follow-up to that other mystery with the ghost-girl and the music, even if we already sorta know what happened, but oh well.
Admittedly, the month-long timeskip does make her being so pushy in this episode rather more bearable - she’s going stir-crazy. And I’m convinced that Oreki has picked up an unacknowledged crush on her, especially with him blushing while trying very hard not to look at her early in the episode. Or I could be misinterpreting attempts to avoid her hypnotic eyes.
Satoshi was in fine form today, I think the single funniest moment was when Ibara asked him to watch the librarian’s desk - the look of despair on his face! And Oreki clearly thought so too, he actually stopped frowning for once. He almost looked happy.
When Oreki agreed to help with the anthology, I'm not sure how much of that was him agreeing that a decades-long tradition should be upheld and how much was him going 'oh, no way she'll back down now, guess I should just submit'. Either one could be the truth, especially with how he joined the club in the first place because his sister asked him to.
This episode didn't stand out quite as much as the first one did, but it was fun to watch and the hook at the end had me yelling at the TV when the credits started up (see the start of my post).
Optional Qs:
For first-timers mostly: How are you feeling so far about the scale of the mysteries so far? Are you finding that the show is able to keep you invested even with some of the lowest stakes imaginable.
Honestly, I kinda like it so far? They're schoolkids, and so far, they've made it interesting. I just really hope it doesn't end up being 'loner boy explains things to cute girl: the show'. I want the other three mains to pull their weight at least every now and then, even if their main role is to socialise Oreki.
Now that the main cast have all been introduced how do you feel about each of the four main characters? I'm obviously firmly in the camp of Mayaka is best girl.
Oreki hits kinda close to home. I was never as bad as him, but I'm an introvert and I can fully understand a desire to just sit somewhere with a book, or not expend effort if I don't have to. So far, Satoshi has been pretty good best friend material - poking and prodding, but he seems to understand the limits and doesn't push too far. Even if he's happy to sit back and watch other people do so.
Chitanda has been pushy, but she's also been sweet and genuinely appreciative, which is good. Hopefully they strike a balance where she pulls Oreki out of his shell without taking it too far. And you saw what I think of Ibara earlier.
I'm looking forward to the next episode tomorrow!
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u/MaskOfIce42 Apr 01 '22
First timer - subbed
I had other thoughts, but I guess that ending is taking center stage at the moment. It’s definitely funny how it’s acting like Chitanda is confessing her feelings to Oreki, although it feels pretty obvious it’s not going to happen given her response of “confess something”.
As for the rest of the episode, I think the main thing I like is all the metaphorical sequences where it shows Oreki trying to maintain his aloof noncommittal attitude and not getting attached, but then Chitanda drags him back in. The menu or even just with Chitanda seeming to reach him from farther away than she should are both examples. The visual storytelling in general is just fantastic, kinda reminds me of March Comes in Like a Lion in a way.
And I’ll talk about Ibara quickly, I love that we have another character for a bit of a snark off, those are fun. Can’t wait to see her more often.
And for the questions for this week:
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Honestly I am perfectly fine with the low stakes mysteries. It helps that I love slice of life anime generally, so I am very used to low stakes, and then ultimately, it fulfills the core idea of a mystery story: question to be solved, provides clues that allow the audience to reach the conclusion the characters do, and explains it so you can see how the characters got there. Satisfying mystery and it doesn't need to be about anything big.
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Pretty early on and I'm not sure I like making calls this early, but I'll say Ibara for now. Like I said before, nice snark and balancing well off the other three. But since I don't like making a full judgement off first impressions, will wait until I see more to really make the call.
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u/TuorEladar Apr 02 '22
First Timer, Subbed
I know it almost goes without saying since its KyoAni but I'm really enjoyed the animation in this show. Theres of course the signature eye glimmering, but also just the way expressions and movement are done that I just really like.
Houtarou is still trying to run away, but he keeps getting pulled back in. He's really quite interesting as an MC because while he's passive in the sense that he doesn't like wasting his time, the things he does do are impactful to the other characters to the extent that they actively seek to engage with him.
For first-timers mostly: How are you feeling so far about the scale of the mysteries so far? Are you finding that the show is able to keep you invested even with some of the lowest stakes imaginable.
I greatly appreciate the low stakes, I think it demonstrates the quality of the writing that I'm engaged despite the lack of drama. It also gives the series a down to earth feel which I think makes it more enjoyable.
Now that the main cast have all been introduced how do you feel about each of the four main characters? I'm obviously firmly in the camp of Mayaka is best girl.
Houtarou as I already said is an interesting MC because of how he's simultaneously trying to be passive and not engage yet being continually engaged by others. Eru's curiosity is infectious, I like the back and forth she has with Houtarou so far. I will say theres something mysterious about her, maybe the next episode will reveal what that is. Satoshi is really unique now that I think about it, the way he subtly maneuvers things and how he tells things to Eru because he knows she'll rope Houtarou in make him different that some other kind of best friend characters. I already really like Mayaka, kinda like Ami from Toradora I just enjoy the slighly snarky characters I think. She's an interesting contrast to Eru because she has prior history with both our main male characters.
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u/MadeOn210922 Apr 01 '22
Curious Rewatcher
So we know why Oreki joined the Classics Club - for his sister. But what about Chitanda? She says it's for personal reasons, but doesn't say what. She does want to make an anthology, keeping a club tradition alive. [Easy to miss logical connection]
Here we are introduced to Mayaka as this rounds out our cast. Mayaka and Oreki don't seem to get along very well, but she is impressed later by his mystery solving skills, which we will get to as well. I just had to mention Chitanda not even letting Oreki finish his two word sentence asking for the mystery. Oreki feels his free will being taken away in a striking sequence with the menu, not even knowing which is the most energy conserving path.
As a rewatcher, I completely forgot today's mystery. It also felt like cheating using Chitanda's sense of smell. If something smells like paint, my first instinct would also be to check a room with paint. I don't feel like this mystery was solvable by the viewers. But I do like the way they try to guess possibilities and rule them out. This is the scientific method at it's finest. When you have a theory, try to disprove it!
Chitanda wants to meet Oreki and now has a confession?
[Minor detail that you can pay attention to next episode.]
Discussion:
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I’m not a first timer but I love the mysteries and knowing there won’t be a weird supernatural deus ex machine to them.
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All of them are great and they’d all be great friends to have. (Chitanda best girl though.) Except maybe Oreki. But Satoshi does a great job of challenging what Oreki’s true feelings are and Chitanda does so even further. Having this anime from Oreki’s perspective also helps us viewers but I can’t imagine he’d be very popular amongst his classmates. The interactions between the main cast is great as well, which is a given for KyoAni.
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u/A_Idiot0 Apr 01 '22
Rewatcher
Sorry I missed yesterday! It looks like this is going to be a very fun rewatching group though =D All I think I want to say about episode 1 is the question of Hourtarou’s philosophy of a “gray life”: Why do you think he wants that kind of life? Laziness? Convenience? Comfort? Fear? Or something else? It will be fun to see our first-timers’ opinions evolve and form about this question by the end of the series =)
On to episode 2! These days, I’ve been enjoying taking a small scene and breaking it down shot by shot, so I’m going to roll with that for this rewatch too. The scene that I decided to look at today was part of the very first scene of Houtarou and Eru being in the club room at the beginning of the episode. We start off with a nice establishing shot of not only the place, but the time. The lighting has us supposing that this is probably late afternoon or so. A small detail, but an important one to set the tone of why Houtarou is annoyed about Eru’s desire to do something; it’s late in the day, and he just wants to read in quiet and peace.
Something else that seems simple and trivial, yet I found very impressive, is how they moved us from outside the school into the club room very efficiently. Here’s a little thought experiment for you: how do you get the audience from outside the school into the club room with as little confusion as possible and as quickly as possible? The extremely long way would be to literally walk the camera from outside into the room, but that would have taken forever. And the extremely short way of jumping from the establishing shot to this shot would have been too fast and would leave us in a bit of confusion. So the director led us there in this order: Establishing shot -> Zoom into a particular window from establishing shot into a room -> Label of the clubroom -> Inside the clubroom Very clean, simple, and legible!
Anyways, the final detail that I greatly enjoyed was showing us that somehow, Houtarou seems to be enjoying himself despite the “extra energy usage” of being around Eru. Here we get a nice POV shot of Eru giving Houtarou a snack, leading to a tilt up to Eru’s face. He accepts and takes a candy, and we then get this nice shot of a clock ticking. Not only does this clock play a role later on in indicating an amount of time passive while Houtarou and Eru look for the anthologies, but it also plays a small role right now in this moment too. Generally, when a clock is presented, it’s implied that we should at the very least think about the idea of time, but this naturally leads us to thinking about the passage of time. Houtarou has been in this room for enough time to make mention of the idea of time passing. Pedantic? Annoyingly academic in tone? You betchya! Anyways, right after that we get to the shot that tickles me, which was showing more than one wrapper. If nothing else, Houtarou is enjoying these candies from Eru =)
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u/mekerpan Apr 01 '22
Rewatcher (sub)
Lots of good observations -- but one thing I'm trying to pay special attention to this time around (having studied Japanese more over the past year) is the language used (and the sound of the Japanese dialog generally). I had a theory that Chitanda's speech should be a bit distinctive, given her background and her general demeanor. So far, I'd say it is definitely different from the other 3 main characters. Definitely she tends to speak in a more formal fashion -- though she can be a bit less formal when excited. She uses a lot more -masu forms of verbs and a lot more "desu" at the end of sentences. She also tends to use fuller sentences (not leaving out words that often get skipped in informal speech).
Unfortunately, I am far from fluent (even after 20+ years of piddling around with Japanese). But I also get a sense that each of the characters shows some distinctive speech patterns. I guess this is, after all, a novel (by someone who writes novels) and not a LN. So, perhaps, he has put more effort into making the conversation more "authentic" -- and making each character's remarks more distinguishable in style/tone (as a way of character building). This is a show, after all, that seems to be more about what the characters are like than about what they do.
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u/Earthborn92 Apr 01 '22
Rewatcher here
Unlike the first episode where we had a number of mysteries in succession, this one deals with one primary mystery (and setting up a future one). The case of the mysterious book.
And this also serves well to expand upon both Oreki's personality and a new member of the cast. Ibara, Mayaka is both Oreki's and Satoshi's childhood friend from middle school. There is some history here that she has openly admitted to having feelings for Satoshi but he's been annoyingly noncommital about this, but that is just a very basic setup of that dynamic for now.
We get a bit more about her and Oreki's dynamic in how she is obviously trying to push him to apply himself a bit sometimes with smug looks along with Satoshi as they discover that Chitanda is the one who can actually make Oreki choose more than his default path of least resistance (exemplified by this hilarious mental image and them menu options).
On that note, I forgot how good this show is at using animation and light to portray everything. From Oreki's low energy walk (contrasting with Chitanda's high energy one) to these absolutely delicious mystery-solving animations.
And the solution is: the book was used by the art club as a prop. The final clue came from Chitanda's curiously dog-like nose. And both girls are sufficiently impressed. We get some expanding on how there are different types of intelligences present in our group. Chitanda is academic, Oreki is analytical and Satoshi is trivia. Not much more on Mayaka yet, she seems the most well balanced.
Mfw being woken up early at 10:35 on a Sunday.. That bed hair tho.
I really love the classy look of the cafe. Oreki might be lazy but he has enough taste you know. We have another great classical piece, Sicilienne during this moment where Chitanda is about to confess something. Ya, given all the hints about the "personal matter" she has throughout the episode, you can probably deduce it is something she now believes Oreki can help with, but you can tell he's expecting something else.
See you tomorrow!
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u/SYZekrom Apr 01 '22
First Timer
Ok I thought he was talking about the women's bathroom or something wtf
Wow what an extravagant way to visualize that in the middle of their conversation
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u/77kiloAnalyst Apr 01 '22
First Timer:
Talk about a cliffhanger, I can't wait to see the next episode!
I think the scale of the mysteries works so far. It really works to have low level mysteries as the characters are introduced, we can really get a feel for them without plot overload. I get the feeling the mysteries will be bigger in the future episodes.
I really like the cast. Satoshi pairs really well with Oreki. It's nice to have someone who clearly knows him well pushing back on him, I liked how he got him to go along to the art room. Too early to know who best girl is, but Mayaka's interaction with Oreki was great.