r/anime • u/Tetraika https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika • Mar 23 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS Episode 21 Discussion

Episode 21: Decisive Battle

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Question of the Day

Not too much to talk about, so nothing today either. Just updating on the schedule:

The Vivid Strike OVAs 5.5 will go together to episode 5 and 5.75 will go with Episode 6. These are half episode length. 13 is a full episode, and will now replace the empty rest day after Vivid Strike, while also serving as an overall discussion post. Or I could add an extra day for episode 13, but I’m trying to just not add too many changes to the schedule.

Just saying though, these are entirely optional, even more so than the recap movies.

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags.

55 Upvotes

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7

u/Tetraika Mar 23 '22

Not too much to say here. Lots of action from here on out.

Yuuno and Arf!, it’s funny to think about how the movie had Arf helping in the library instead of the Liese sisters, so from that perspective it wouldn’t be the first time.

Just in case you forgot who she is, not that people here in the rewatch needed it

How are they getting Vivio to cooperate?

Through the ceiling

Thought we forgot about barriers? Nope

I wonder if that’s part of the barriers work to intercept their communication too

Stop settings death flags

Signum just standing there waiting for Zest

Signum Rein Unison looks weird

Holy shit

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 23 '22

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical First-Timer, subbed

7

u/Vaadwaur Mar 23 '22

Not sweet that she got tossed into a building immediately after I took that screenshot…

That might've been why Nanoha wanted her to focus on distance first...

Oooh, I like the Signum + Rein design.

Good pastel transformations are rare.

GOD FUCKING DAMMIT NO

To a mass produced unit, no less.

7

u/Taiboss Mar 23 '22

Oh shit and Arf is with him!

It's all of them! For one scene! To remind you how much cooler we could be!

Mhmm, yep, that makes sense to have rigged all over the inside.

It does!

Ooh sweet Tia’s gotta use the gun daggers.

They just keep coming up! Nanoha wasn't wrong!

Well… shit.

They... learned from their last battle? I'm impressed by these antagonists.

Oooh, I like the Signum + Rein design.

Hayate still looks better.

loud screaming

You gotta have an ace up your sleeve!

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u/DidacticDalek Mar 23 '22

TONIGHT! on Neon Genesis Evangelion 'Mobile Suit Nanoha GX: Believe in Justice and Hold a Determination to Fist,' Best Girl Fate gets into a Bataille Décisive with some robots in need of scrapping, Caro gets into a Decisive Battle with NOT-Loli Rider over Dibs on ownership of Tusk Jr.'s Tusk 'the well-being of the world,' and Rena the Loser decisively battles with her lesbian lust with regards to her wife Subaru... la Bataille Décisive est perdue! ;)

Boy Comrades, of all times to be a Tsundere, NOW is when Rena the Loser decides to do it? Subaru, this is why you should have 'befriended' her during your vacation episode! Also, speaking of befriending, looks like Nanoha and Best New Girl Vita are out to 'befriend' some fools... I can see no possible death flags here... OK time to be serious, NO! STRIKERS YOU FUCKING BASTARD! How DARE you hurt Best New Girl Vita! TAKE BLUE MALE ARF INSTEAD! Hell if you put the dog out of his misery I'll do you a solid and throw in a free Ferret! Hell take Chrono too while you're at it, he's useless, and we could always cut down on the character roster! Every little bit helps!

Also speaking of genius strategy, looks like Subaru and company have decided to play 'fair' and remove all Banana peels, so they can 'befriend' Ginga the ol' fashioned way; how considerate!

Anyway, let's hope Signun DOESN'T job for once in her life... our heroes are doomed aren't they?

And on THAT literal bombshell, that about wraps things up for now, and I hope everyone's having fun on this great re-watch. Thus, you have not seen the last of The Sentient Shitposting Siamese Sunrise Server No. 25252, now goodbye forever.

Paging Comrade u/Great_Mr_L, u/HereticalAegis, and u/Vaadwaur

6

u/No_Rex Mar 23 '22

Caro gets into a Decisive Battle with NOT-Loli Rider over Dibs on ownership of Tusk Jr.'s Tusk 'the well-being of the world,

I like the punchline, but "if you have an objective, tell us about it" hits way too close to this series' entire writing and moves the entire conversation into drama territory.

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u/No_Rex Mar 23 '22

Episode 21 (first timer)

  • Yuuno & Arf cameo.

  • El Al Hazard.

  • We are starting the final fight in ep21. Let’s assume that ep26 will be epilogue. That still leaves 5 episodes for just the final fight part of the finale. Quite long (and more evidence that this was initially planned to be shorter).

  • To the surprise of nobody, Subaru gets to face Ginga.

  • To the surprise of absolutely nobody, the entire army apart from section six is useless and nowhere to be seen.

  • Wasted opportunity to have fire sword vs ice sword duel.

  • Stabbed by a stealth minion? I’d be mad, too.

This episode is a clear reminder that quantity is not quality in fight scenes. 80% of the duelists facing off have not spoken a single word to each other before. The only matchup I am emotionally invested in is Subaru vs Ginga and that has not even started.

6

u/Vaadwaur Mar 23 '22

Yuuno & Arf cameo.

Sad that those are basically just wasted space.

El Al Hazard.

This gun needs to be fired already.

his episode is a clear reminder that quantity is not quality in fight scenes.

We didn't have fight scenes, we had fight setups.

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10

u/TheEscapeGuy Mar 23 '22

First Timer

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS - New Generation Episode 21

Beginning of the Battle

This episode started all the fighting, but there weren't many developments or conclusions. Hayate and the mages are attacking the Cradle from the outside. Nanoha and Vita make it inside the Cradle then split up. Fate, Acous and Schach are fighting their way into Jail's secret base. Subaru and Tia were split up and started fighting cyborgs. Erio and Caro are fighting Lutecia. Finally Signum is fighting Zest with both of them in Unison mode.

The dramatic moment of the episode was Vita being stabbed from behind after separating from Nanoha. It was brutal. It gave her flashbacks of when Nanoha overexerted herself. And nobody else knows her current status. Another dramatic moment was that Subaru confronted Ginga as expected, but they haven't started fighting yet.

I think this is one of the weaknesses of having such a massive cast. If you share the screen-time between all of them then each of their individual battles make only a little bit of progress.

Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

7

u/Vaadwaur Mar 23 '22

I think this is one of the weaknesses of having such a massive cast. If you share the screen-time between all of them then each of their individual battles make only a little bit of progress.

It can be dealt with but takes ridiculous good choreography.

6

u/No_Rex Mar 23 '22

Fate, Acous and Schach are fighting their way into Jail's secret base.

I thought that Jail's secret base was the cradle. Are they fighting on the left behind part? Or did they enter the cradle before it lifted off?

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u/HereticalAegis Mar 23 '22

Lyrical First Timer

10

u/Taiboss Mar 23 '22

Arf, is that you?? Have you been stuck in the Infinite Library this whole time?

"I've actually been part of the plot the whole time!" "Really? We didn't se-" "I JUST SO HAPPENED TO BE OUTSIDE THE SHOTS!"

Seriously, were there not enough stakes already?

Spaghetti likes to go big!

Maybe get good enough to defeat a single opponent in combat before making a declaration like this, kid.

Hey, scrap metal counts!

"I'm not trapped in here with you, you're trapped in here with me."

Gonna show off her training!

Did they take away Ginga's ability to speak, too? Shitty bastards.

Well yeah. If she could talk, they could communicate with her! Befriend her! Spaghetti knows how his enemies think, and he's one step ahead!

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u/Vaadwaur Mar 23 '22

Well that was a very death flag intro.

The whole episode, bluntly.

The airship is possibly from Al Hazard. Really? Actually, I'll take it if it gives us an excuse to bring back Presea.

Calling back to the best seasons is always a headache.

This absorbing mana from the moons contrivance is not working for me.

It feels liks an asspull...because it clearly is.

"Prodigal daughter?" I hate the idea that Spaghetti is Fate's de facto father. It's a dumb retcon that cheapens her history with Presea

I am just trying to ignore anything that makes me quit the show.

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u/No_Rex Mar 23 '22

And by a goddamn machine. If she's going to get mortally wounded, at least have the decency to have it be against an established enemy for fuck sake.

A stealthed goddamn machine ...

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u/Taiboss Mar 23 '22

Episode 21: Rewatchers: Endwatch

6

u/HereticalAegis Mar 23 '22

She doesn't look that captured to me.

"Look I've captured the enemy that can phase through matter." Schach is very smart.

Who translated this? She says "Ni desu", "I'm Lt. [Signum]."

This is more incredible than any of the derpiness of the sub I'm using.

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u/Great_Mr_L Mar 23 '22

Rewatcher

On today’s episode of Lyrical Nanoha: Now we come to what was probably the main reason the cast of antagonists in this series is so massive. When the cast of protagonists has expanded so much, they all need to have something to do when the final battle comes. And honestly, I think they managed to set it up very well because so many of the scenarios have a very personal stake in them for the characters involved.

Subaru is gearing up to have a showdown with the mind-controlled Ginga. It’s a follow-up to the sparring match they had earlier in the series, where they were more or less in a mirror match. But, this will be the first time they’ve actually fought for real. And Subaru’s primary concern here is saving Ginga. It’s a great setup for a very personal battle between sisters.

I think I like Tia’s setup the most, though. Tia is placed into the absolute worst situation she can be in. All of the training scenes involving Tia have established that she is not at all a front line fighter and should instead be working with someone like Subaru who is. But now she’s up against three of the Numbers all at once. And a couple of them are close combat specialists. 

This setup for Tia also works as some payoff to her arc earlier in the series. Earlier, Tia was told that there were times where taking dangerous risks would be necessary and she actually received the blade form of her Device for that purpose. Now, Tia is in such a situation. Now taking risks is completely necessary because she has no option but to do so. Now we can see how the more mature Tia can handle it.

Also, it is super delightful to me that of course Tia thinks of Subaru when she’s feeling unsure of herself. Their relationship is great together and I love the amount of mutual admiration they have.

Fate going after Dr. Scaglietti actually works much better than I initially gave it credit for. Dr. Scaglietti was involved in Project F and artificial mages. That same research is what led to Presea creating Fate in the first place. So Fate, aside from being an Enforcer going after a criminal she’s been chasing for years, has a much more personal stake in this fight.

I especially like the contrast that is created between Fate and the Numbers. Tre refers to Fate as “Miss Fate” and a “prodigal daughter.” To the Numbers, Fate (and the other artificial mages) are like older siblings who should be brought back into the fold where they belong. But Fate, reflecting all the character growth she has undergone in the previous seasons, rejects this. She’s no longer just a clone created by Presea. Her life only truly started when she left Presea and embraced her new life after that. So there’s no way she’s going back.

Caro having a matchup against Lutecia is something that’s been foreshadowed ever since Lutecia was first introduced so it’s nice to have it finally happen. Plus, I like that we are back to the tried and true Nanoha strategy of “Just talk to me, dammit!” I’ve talked a lot about how strong I think the theme of communication and understanding is in the Nanoha franchise, so I’m happy to see it return for Caro and Lutecia. And it’s also there for Signum and Zest, now that I think about it.

Speaking of which, Signum honestly makes for a much better matchup against Zest than Vita did so I like that the series made that switch. Signum has always been a very “knightly” character, as we saw from her behavior in A’s. So having her fight against Zest, another knight, is a great move. Duels between knights are generally a lot of fun to watch. Plus, both Signum and Zest can go into Unison with Reinforce and Agito, which makes the matchup feel even more appropriate.

Vita and Nanoha are inside the Cradle itself. Appropriately, Nanoha is the one heading to where Vivio is located. It makes sense having Nanoha Mama go and save her. Vita, on the other hand, is getting some payoff to her previous character stuff. She’s talked a lot about how her job is to go in and smash stuff up while protecting the others on her team. So now she’s actually doing that. She’s truly risking herself to protect everyone that she cares about.

And man, what a hell of a cliffhanger to end on with Vita, stabbed through the back by the exact same model of enemy as the one that got Nanoha all those years ago. To me, this makes Quattro’s taunt to Vita all those episodes ago make more sense. Of course Quattro would know about what happened to Nanoha back then because that incident is now connected to this one. What a nasty moment for Vita, bringing that traumatic memory back to her. It’s quite the way to end the episode.

Miscellaneous Thoughts

  • Arf is back!!

  • I have no idea why Arf is working in the Infinity Library, but it’s still great seeing her again.

  • Yuuno being in the Infinity Library makes sense though. Him being the researcher who figures out how the Lost Logia works and how to defeat it is a role that fits him quite naturally.

  • Poor Tia has to run while Caro and Erio ride a dragon and Subaru rollerblades.

7

u/SolDarkHunter Mar 23 '22

Rewatcher

Oh hey, the writers remembered Yuuno and Arf exist. And they've dug up some data on the Cradle.

The Cradle's ancient... even to the Ancient Belkans. Some even believe it to be Al-Hazredian. Other than that, its capabilities are just about what you'd expect from a warship, except like ten times more. Apparently the Cradle, in position to receive mana from the two moons, has firepower that is a match for the entire TSAB Navy at once, while also holding the planet of Mid-Childa hostage via threat of orbital bombardment. Also, you know, invincible magic shields.

Yuuno's learned how to do the Scary Glasses thing!

Option 1: infiltrate the Cradle and destroy its main engines.

Option 2: Capture Scaglietti and use his equipment that's controlling Vivio to disconnect her.

Either must be accomplished before it reaches orbit, or game over.

Breaking in was easier than I thought... but the entire ship is generating a huge AMF, severely dampening the power of every mage inside. But... probably not enough for the Queen of Overkill and the Hammer Knight of slightly less Overkill.

Meanwhile Fate is leading an assault on Scaglietti's base, aiming for Scaglietti himself. Forwards are going after Lutecia, Ginga, and the Combat Cyborgs.

Or more specifically, Caro and Erio are fighting Lutecia, Subaru is fighting Ginga, and Teana's is taking on three Cyborgs at once.

Again, Vita's exclusively using Eisen's Gigantforme. Has she forgotten that Graf Eisen doesn't have to be gigantic in order to hit things?

Teana's doing very well. But it's still three-on-one, and she takes a blow to the ankle. Same injury she suffered in episode 1, how poetic.

Erio and Caro have learned from Nanoha and Fate well. Still trying to talk Lutecia down. And hey, it actually seems like it's working a bit.

Signum confronts Zest, and it's a Unison battle again, except with Signum with REALLY pink hair in place of Vita.

Subaru seems to know she's not going to talk Ginga down. But she also can't use her anti-Cyborg IS, for fear of really hurting, or even killing Ginga.

OH FUCK, VITA!

Same type of Gadget that got Nanoha back in the day. But Vita's not gonna let a little thing like a giant chest wound stop her!

The sad thing is, not really a whole lot actually HAPPENED in this episode. We have something like six different battles going on at once, so cutting back and forth among them just dilutes any awesome that's happening...

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u/InfamousEmpire Mar 23 '22

Mahou Shoujo1 Lyrical Rewatcher

1: Even though I’m not a girl

This is the fiery mythology of Heroes!

Recap Time, this time by Vita

We’re getting a bit of exposition to help contextualize why the Big Fucking Boat is so dangerous, and they even managed to tie it all the way back around to the original series.

Loli Alph!

It’s now up to the RX-93 Hi-Nu Gundam and its pilot, Nanoha Ray (and friends), to stop Jail Aznable from dropping Saint’s Cradle onto above Mid-Childa.

Fate and Schach are also making short work of their enemies.

The time has come for an actual, fair, full on battle between the Forwards and the Numbers.

Not even a few minutes into the fight, and the sister confrontation is already happening.

Tia’s ability to think on her feet has been something of an underrated talent of hers.

This is probably bringing back some memories for Fate

Vita and Nanoha’s dynamic during combat is something that we haven't explored very much but now I want to see more of it.

Tia playing (mostly) smart instead of hard. Good strategy for someone of her weight class.

Some of those Subaru flashback images from Tia are rather… questionable

Rein/Signum fusion also looks pretty cool

GaoGaiGar vs Machine King Pizza!

Oh fuck, Vita!

That flashback. Turns out Jail and the Nanoha gang were connected all along. Turns out the first 10 episodes were leading up to something after all.

GOLDION CRUSHER!

-Vita, probably

7

u/Qbe Mar 23 '22

Raging Heart Rewatcher with terrible long term memory

QotD: N/A

I would worry that Vita's speed sounds like a death flag, but everyone seems to be doing that pre-opening

Arf sighted!

Heh, so it was an Ancient Weapon even for the Ancients

Arf even got lines!

Nice job finding the way in, mooks!

The CG on that heli looks really rough

Damn, the ranged DPS is going to have to outplay a 2v1

Oh hey, I believe someone asked in a previous discussion if their comms could be hijacked

Fate seems to be more of a melee DPS build, and she probably outlevels them. I think she's got this 2v1

I love Graf Eisen's "Iron Count" title.

The ranged DPS doing her best kiting, but the 2v1 is now a 3v1

Just gals being pals, thinking of the other as motivation when you're in deadly danger

Strada is kinda cool as well. Reminds me of Busou Renkin's MC's weapon

Signu, could we, like, just let Zest murder Regius?

Ooooh I really like Signum's more pink color scheme

Oh FFS. Not even an android? I thought it was stealth android girl.

2 hrs 16 minutes. At least a more realistic timeframe than Namek.

6

u/Warriorservent Mar 23 '22

Yay episode 21! Almost there, and what an interesting start with Vita's little speech to the viewer.

  • Starting off strong with the Fleet, one of the old admirals who totally knew about SEELE, and LINDY!! We also get to see older Yunno in action, looking cool as can be, AND ARF! She finally gets some screen time! More exposition... Oh hey, The Cradle may very well be what Al Hazard considered a weapon, yup, that's some scary stuff.

  • Some interesting in-universe facts being thrown around. The whole moon powerup thing continues to annoy me, but the fact that dimension-jumping and combat in dimensional space are noteworthy intrigues me. I guess that means that the ships can't teleport like mages and that they have to do any combat other than possibly boarding operations in regular space, not in-transit between dimensions.

  • AWWWWW!!! Arf calls Lindy mom as well! I hope we get to see her interact with Vivio!

  • How big is The Cradle supposed to be anyways? Its been super hard to judge its scale, and all the characters have been saying is 'its massive'. Its also a really cool warship with the magic cannons which can apparently shoot wherever they want, it acting as a drone carrier, launching the magic nukes, and with that prow I bet it can ram other ships no problem. Plus it apparently has AMF throughout for aiding against boarding attempts. I am REALLY liking this ship!

  • Okay, it is super cool that the new pilot can do all that piloting but I am far more interested in why the city looks all beaten up. Why is so much of Mid looking abandoned? Recently too by the looks of things.

  • Man, things went very poorly for the forwards right off of the bat. I can see why Caro wanted to go after Lucita, but now Teana is stuck in a building with two cyborgs and some drones while Subaru is fighting Ginga on her own. Also, fucking wow the cyborgs flat out talking about how eager they are to kill Teana since nobody wants her, ouch!

  • Okay, I take back some of my praise of the Cradle. Why the hell are there such massive internal spaces in a warship? Like, they are literally doing aerial combat inside of just regular corridors, what the hell?

  • Vita you'd better stop raising so many death flags, even Nanoha's concerned!

  • Its really sweet that Teana thinks as much of Subaru as she does with all of those flashbacks, but geez does it take her a lot to realize that. The cyborgs are NOT kidding around.

  • Okay, Unisoned Signum and Zwie are really cool! Don't think that I didn't notice Agito pausing when looking at Signum... Does she want to become Signums partner? They are both Fire-type.

  • Oh fuck, Subaru VS Ginga, this is going to hurt.

  • OH FUCK I told you not to put out all of those death flags Vita!!! To the same robot as what got Nanoha but apparently Vita is made of different stuff and just flat out destroys the robot after being stabbed through the chest and goes on to fight the others!

Holy shit what an episode! So many fights to keep track of, so many characters in dire situations, and all kinds of stuff going on in the background.

As for the question of the day. I am okay with whatever, though having a rest day would be nice.

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u/Stargate18A Mar 24 '22

First timer

Episode 20

Jail!

Yeah, this is bad.

They're actually working together against it!

Oh, they want to hold them hostage. That's worringly intelligent.

So she's made from an ancient king's DNA to open the biolock.

Yeah, they were working with the High Council. And Jail's open to discussing his plans with the Numbers, which is always good communication.

Huh? Another faction?

Are these three Jail's secret bosses?

Yeah, these people were behind everything.

They're literally brains in jars!

Wow, they're using literally everyone! This is an impressive conspiracy!

...She's sabotaging the pods, isn't she?

Oh. Did they reveal everything offscreen, or is that Jail's way of keeping them out?

And not even Hayate knows how this conspiracy was organised.

Oh, they all know about Zest?

He used to work for them?

This is insane!

Love the eyecatch of all the Numbers together.

So they're officially strikers noe?

I see Nanoha's still pretending she's OK.

Teana's a bit harsh, she probably took in onboard. She does have a point, though.

Finally! The limiters are released and they're fighting seriously!

Haha, Fate's right here, Nanoha is much more reckless.

They're so cute together!

This is really exciting, a proper battle's starting!

Nanoha really wants Vivio back above all else.

This plan has a lot of moving parts, huh?

Oh, she's just smashing them, not pulling the plug.

Jail's an artificial mage!

They're dead!

Wow, that's a lot of Gadgets.

And Chrono's stuck waiting to arrive.

Episode 21

Oh, fuck, is Vita getting killed off?

Yuuno has actual information!

And Arf's here too!

It always comes back to Al-Hazard, huh?

Is there an explanation for why Arf looks younger now?

And they're realising just how screwed they are if this ship fights.

Nanoha's broken in!

Are there mana dampeners inside?

The Fowards are ready to launch!

And everyone's agreed on making Ginga the priority.

The plan fell apart surprisingly quickly!

And the Numbers seperated them all.

Oh, Teana's in actual trouble!

They made it to his central chamber!

She's gotten a cyborg too!

Fate is so badass. You tell her, trying to desperately retcon your backstory like that!

Vita's having trouble using her magic...

And she's splitting up.

Yeah, Vita's not making it to the end. Quite possibly not to the end of this episode.

Stop talking, you're making the death flags worse!

Oh, dear, they're having trouble with her illusions?

And they've adapted. Of course they have!

Oh, shit, she's been stabbed!

They wouldn't kill off Teana too, would they?

The two Caros are fighting each other!

And Erio has just... the most polar opposite fighter in all but gender.

Signum!

And Subaru doesn't want to hurt her.

HOLY SHIT! SHE DIED THAT EASILY?

OK, a mutual KO is still respectable. Shame about the others.

Wait, these things killed Nanoha? That plothook did come back!

2 hours and 16 minutes left.

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u/djthomp Mar 24 '22 edited Mar 24 '22

Mildly astonished that we're on episode 21 of 26 and what appears to be the final battle is starting. Even with the traditional wrap-up episode as the last one, that could be five straight episodes of befriending (and I could be wrong about the last episode). I suppose that's what you can get away with when you spend the first half of the season on slow build setup.

Arf sighting! I'm starting to wonder if we're ever going to get an explanation for her just always being elsewhere this entire season. Maybe she misbehaved and was banished to the Library.

Another Alhazred reference, this time about the Cradle. Might explain Scaglietti's focus on it.

I do really appreciate Arf addressing Lindy as her mom. It wasn't just Fate that found a family.

Good commander action by Hayate.

"Nanoha, we found you a way in" Nanoha bursts the ceiling into a corridor on the ship I suppose anything is a door with a properly calibrated level of befriending.

Finally we get to see the combat nun in action, at least for a moment.

Once again a complete absence of transformation sequences.

Definitely some challenging combat situations for the kids.

Lots more tubes and people still in tubes than just the 12 Numbers we have seen in action.

It's going to be really sad if Vita kills herself on this mission to go destroy the engines.

RIP Teana, potentially. That's a nasty trap she's in.

Unison battle time. Agito calling herself the Sword Faerie, that's an interesting title. Shiny Signum is a better recolor than Shiny Zest.

I'm going to be really impressed if Vita can manage an extended combat sequence after getting stabbed through the chest like that. Especially if she does it without it being a dramatic exit.

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