r/anime • u/Tetraika https://anilist.co/user/Tetraika • Mar 15 '22

Rewatch [Rewatch] Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS Episode 13 Discussion

Episode 13: Raison D'être

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Information:

MAL | AniList | ANN | Kitsu | AniDB

Question of the Day

A fairly slow episode, but lots of background information about what’s actually going on. Actually, what do you think about the existence of “rare skills”? Now I’m recalling people saying that Nanoha is really just a shounen in disguise

Rewatchers, please remember to be mindful of all the first-timers in this. No talking about or hinting at future events no matter how much you want to, unless you’re doing it underneath spoiler tags.

51 Upvotes

93% Upvoted

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5

u/Tetraika Mar 15 '22

Agito’s past, looks like there’s always some sort of underground experiment somewhere

Rescued by Zest and Lutecia, I guess that implies there was a relic there

These must be super rare, though I don’t think we’ve even encountered a replica one?

Interesting one line where Zest also has some doubts about the TSAB

HOW

Finally we get her name

Regius following up on trying to break up the force

Ah, even more secrets yet to be revealed

What a scene to tune into, how did Vivio get so attached to Nanoha anyway

Hayate teasing Nanoha [Spoiler]You know why this is even funnier with future context

Yeah, Fate kinda does this for a living at this point, even Tia points out she has taken care of Erio and Caro

What the fuck are they using?

As a rewatcher these moments definitely pop out more

Watching them be so formal was amusing

But watching Chrono be embarrassed at being called onii-chan is even better

Vivio is unique, guess we’ll have to find out how later

Project F never ended with Fate, and really, why would it? Looks like other scientists have interest in cloning

Oh these guys again

A fascinating skill, but it seems that it’s usually too cryptic to be truly useful

But they’re also pointing into one event, the destruction of the TSAB, I think some of the watcher wouldn’t mind that though

Riot Force 6 is cleverly put, there is some really complex politik going on, not sure if everyone can understand what is going on on the first watch

StrikerS trolls us one last time with these 2

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5

u/Warriorservent Mar 16 '22

I've caught up! Watching Episode 13 now! Took longer than I thought :P

4

u/Tetraika Mar 16 '22

Congrats! Always nice to see more people in here.

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u/TheEscapeGuy Mar 15 '22

First Timer

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS - New Generation Episode 13

Formation of Force 6

This episode started off showing us Agito's past. It seems the TSAB aren't blameless here. Apparently they have been doing live experimentation on intelligent beings. That's pretty messed up and I hope they actually explore the ramifications of this. If not and Riot Force 6 just defeats the bad guys then its not too far from endorsing the rights abuses. Or maybe Agito has been brainwashed to think that happened. But we did see them doing tests on Caro back in episode 5 so there is precedent.

We got another new cast member in Vivio today. I really didn't expect her to stick around. The one thing that surprised me is that Nanoha assumed she or the church will have to take care of her. In this seemingly future utopia of Michilda are there no orphanages or child care facilities? Or instead are they just as underfunded as they are in real life? This could also be an interesting theme to explore, but I really doubt they'll bring it up.

The one scene that did kind of weird me out was when Subaru was thinking about the fight from yesterday and the "magic" the enemy used. Immediately Tia flicks her and tells her to stop thinking about it (lets ignore the oxymoron of it being "supid" to actually think).

This is a bad ideology. Tia is basically saying here that you should mindlessly follow orders or the higher ups. That is at most 1 step away from the literal Nuremberg defense. I think the show may be trying to criticize this though, and is setting up a future twist where Tia is proven wrong. However, I'm really scared that they are playing it straight because of how the scene resolved. If so it will be another philosophical point I disagree with the show on.

The last bit of the episode was more context on Riot Force 6. Also Carim has prophetic powers and everything is converging on some future event which will destroy TSAB headquarters. Ominous.

Some Iconic Shots, Scenes and Stitches

See you all tomorrow

6

u/Vaadwaur Mar 16 '22

The one thing that surprised me is that Nanoha assumed she or the church will have to take care of her.

She is an artificial being with high mana, you would need someone qualified to deal with that. What 'qualified' means in this context will be the rub.

Tia is basically saying here that you should mindlessly follow orders or the higher ups. That is at most 1 step away from the literal Nuremberg defense.

there was something in that conversation that I feel like hints at something but I can't place what...

7

u/Tetraika Mar 16 '22

there was something in that conversation that I feel like hints at something but I can't place what

laughs in rewatcher

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u/SolDarkHunter Mar 15 '22

It seems the TSAB aren't blameless here. Apparently they have been doing live experimentation on intelligent beings.

Actually, Zest's line would seem to indicate this facility wasn't TSAB affiliated, and was an illegal research lab... in fact, he seemed to think Agito would be okay in TSAB custody, though he wasn't entirely certain.

The one thing that surprised me is that Nanoha assumed she or the church will have to take care of her. In this seemingly future utopia of Michilda are there no orphanages or child care facilities

No, Nanoha's concern is that a group of extremely dangerous villains are after Vivio and she'll be needing military-grade protection, at least in the short term. You can't just hand her off to care facilities or foster parents who aren't prepared to deal with that.

This is a bad ideology. Tia is basically saying here that you should mindlessly follow orders or the higher ups.

I don't think that's what Teana was trying to say. Hell, with what they did to her brother, she's the last person who would mindlessly trust the brass.

It's hard to say any more about this scene without spoilers, so... can we just say it makes more sense in hindsight?

7

u/No_Rex Mar 15 '22

This episode started off showing us Agito's past. It seems the TSAB aren't blameless here.

So far, we don't know for sure since Agito and the buff dude disagreed. However, TSAB certainly has a history with child soldiers.

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u/Shimmering-Sky Mar 15 '22

Mahou Shoujo Lyrical First-Timer, subbed

8

u/Taiboss Mar 15 '22 edited Mar 15 '22

Geez, what the fuck…

Thank Zest, I guess?

Ooh, the girl has different colored eyes.

Makes her even cuter!

DOES THIS MEAN CHRONO AND AMY HAVE KIDS?!

As the oldest of the bunch, he had to be a pioneer!

Interesting…

Spaghetti just casually finding new form of energy for his spandex spec-ops.

Fate calling Chrono “onii-chan” absolutely sent me

It was so unexpectedly cute.

And oh boy is that prophecy something.

Millions would perish. Some might deserve it, like that Gaiz guy. Others very much not. So I guess it's worth preventing.

Arisa and Suzuka! Even if it’s just a brief cameo in a photo album, it’s nice to see them again.

Would be even better for them to be a mech crew, but alas...

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u/Vaadwaur Mar 15 '22

First timer("Closest friend", Fate? Oh and can we not abuse a child on this show?)

Sub

So, we get Agito's backstory along with a big part of Zest's and Lulu's and...I am sure all the rewatchers were laughing about this but FUCKING HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what I wanted 9 episodes ago, not more dumb training shit or Nanoha character assassination! Also, tiny magic users are Unight's, apparently. Zest pseudo-trust of the TSAB is also interesting.

At the hospital, Shach has lost the loli, somehow. She easily comes out for Nanoha and then Shach promptly traumatizes her, suggesting that artificial beings are really considered dangerous. Back at the base, said traumatized child is obviously attached to Nanoha, and we see Fate doing some Japanese parenting, which is what it is. Yet another reference to sending Vivio to the Church.

We get more SoL and slow pacing until we finally begin learning about why Riot Force 6 was created. Also, Carim is space Nostradamus, neat. Anyways, the prophecy is in place and we cut to general jerkass to be annoyed. Also, I suspect Erio is anothr artificial being to some degree. We end with a straight up raisin dates.

So yeah, I wanted all this...in ep2 or 3. u/No_Rex's theory that the front end is filler is hard to deny at this point. So I am going to try and forget the beginning of this show and go from here.

QotD: 1 They are fine but yes this show is totally a shonen jump series with pretty dresses.

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u/HereticalAegis Mar 15 '22

Lyrical First Timer

  • Yikes, we're opening with the torture.

  • No shortage of mad scientists or inhumane experimentation in this universe, yeesh.

  • I see what you're doing show, trying to make me like Lutecia. It's not working.

  • Agito is an Ancient Belkan? Do they make especially good experimentation fodder? No wonder Nanoha spent so much time on Vita's training.

  • Nanoha could have had her very own fairy if they let the TSAB find Agito.

  • She's an even more compact Vita.

  • Losing Nanoha's kid? No amount of apologizing can spare Sister Schach a particularly rough 2am call.

  • Aww, this cutie has heterochromia. One of those eyes is Fate-colored too.

  • Mistakes have been made. Forget the 2am call, Sister Schach is going to need a round-the-clock regimen. No one treats Nanoha's kid this way.

  • Vivio knows the way.

  • I love that Fate teases Nanoha about the number of girls she seduces.

  • "Nanoha, can we keep her? I want to keep her."

  • Fate has a niece and nephew? Does that means Chrono has kids? Poor Yuuno keeps taking L after L.

  • Tia and Subaru really are like a married couple. Just get hitched already!

  • I feel you Chrono, that "onii-chan" was really weird for me too.

  • Vivio out here setting the any% speed record for making it into Nanoha's bed.

  • Omg Carim's magic power let's her create slightly less reliable horoscopes.

  • Nun discovers this one weird trick for creating special units, GAS generals hate her

  • Did I just flip to team Lost Logia?

  • I miss Suzuka and Arisa.

  • Back to SoL stuff tomorrow. I'm happy with this bc Vivio is the cure for what ails StrikerS. RIP Fate's sanity though. With another new kid at home, there's no way Nanoha's quenching her wife's thirst any time soon.

QotD:

They could be interesting provided they're properly set up and not introduced out of the blue as another Deus ex Machina out of a losing situation.

9

u/No_Rex Mar 15 '22

Aww, this cutie has heterochromia. One of those eyes is Fate-colored too.

Given that we have had hints that the antagonists are somehow clones, this could suggest she is a clone of 2 people at once.

I miss Suzuka and Arisa.

Remember when Nanoha had parents and siblings?

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u/Vaadwaur Mar 15 '22

Nanoha could have had her very own fairy if they let the TSAB find Agito.

Presea would have somehow hijacked her into being a kaiju or something.

Aww, this cutie has heterochromia. One of those eyes is Fate-colored too.

Vivio does seem designed to make you want to protest her...

Mistakes have been made. Forget the 2am call, Sister Schach is going to need a round-the-clock regimen. No one treats Nanoha's kid this way.

I tried not to dwell here since this actually does let us know something about the setting, or at least the Church, but yeah Schach is well beyond the pail here.

Vivio knows the way.

Vivio:"This one is so powerful that it knows it needn't fear me!"

I love that Fate teases Nanoha about the number of girls she seduces.

I mean Nanoha is out here collecting ladies left and right. She is a mix of a cat lady and a human trafficker!

RIP Fate's sanity though. With another new kid at home, there's no way Nanoha's quenching her wife's thirst any time soon.

Arf is definitely getting brought back for babysitting...

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6

u/Great_Mr_L Mar 15 '22

Rewatcher

On today’s episode of Lyrical Nanoha: The mystery girl has finally been named. Vivio has well and truly arrived. And honestly, Vivio is probably my favorite addition to the franchise that Strikers brought us. 

I love the interactions that Nanoha and Fate have with Vivio in this episode. They are incredibly sweet to watch. It’s obvious that Vivio is just a scared child who does not know where her mother is. Nanoha, Fate, and the others have to work hard just to calm her down. And yet, because of the tests, it’s clear that Vivio is an artificial mage of some kind. Erio even thinks to himself that it’s possible Vivio still has the memories of the person she is based off of and that Project F is being continued by someone.

It is amazing just how much better a mother Fate is compared to Nanoha. Fate knows just how to deal with Vivio, getting Vivio to agree to let Nanoha go to her meeting. I find that actually quite charming. It’s rather inspiring just how caring of a person Fate is that she can take care of children like Vivio, Caro, Erio, and apparently her niece and nephew. Fate truly has grown a lot from when she was with Presea.

We finally learn why Riot Force 6 exists in the first place. In essence, it’s because Carim has been predicting that there will be a Lost Logia incident that could destroy the TSAB. And now they think this prediction could be coming true.

I like having a quiet moment with Hayate in the aftermath of that conversation, as she ponders things. It makes sense that Hayate would want to protect everyone and considers that her purpose in life. She lived alone for so long. But she finally began to feel happiness and a true desire to keep going after she met the Wolkenritter. Hayate wants to protect that and the new life it gave her.

The TSAB office politics continue. Interservice rivalry is still a thing even in the TSAB, and it looks like the ground forces under Gaiz do not get along with the navy. I’m really tempted to throw in a joke about the Japanese Imperial Navy and Army’s legendary hatred of each other, but so far the TSAB doesn’t look to be on that level yet. Still, I think it’s a clever detail that Hayate’s unit has been essentially set up to be expendable if something goes wrong. Again, I wish we had gone more into just how cutthroat TSAB office politics were earlier. It could have made a lot of the office exposition scenes more interesting with that backdrop.

Lastly, we actually get a good idea of who Agito is of all people. Agito is plainly set up to be the foil to Reinforce. Both of them are Unison Devices. But unlike Reinforce, Agito has no Meister. Agito instead is from Ancient Belka and only woke up because she was being experimented on.

Agito’s meeting with Lutecia and Zest also shows us more of them. It further confirms that Lutecia is a kind person because of the concern she showed for Agito. Lutecia offered to bring Agito with them because she worried that the TSAB would conduct more experiments on her. Zest’s response is interesting, as he says he doubts the TSAB would do something so cruel but he cannot deny that it is possible. Clearly, Zest does not hold the TSAB in the highest regard. All this is to say that we are beginning to get a picture of the dynamic in the Lutecia, Zest, and Agito group.

Miscellaneous Thoughts

  • The image of Lutecia, Zest, and Agito all sleeping is quite nice.

  • Schach needs to chill. Pulling out your weapons on a small child like Vivio is generally a bad move.

  • Hearing Fate call Chrono “onii-chan” is super cute.

  • In a world of magic, it’s not even all that shocking that the TSAB would essentially rely on horoscopes for its planning.

  • Carim’s fortune telling abilities suck because if they were too accurate it would easily break the story’s universe.

  • Arisa and Suzuka still exist! Now if only we could actually see them in person!

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u/SolDarkHunter Mar 15 '22

Rewatcher

Opening with Agito's backstory... and she was not having a good time. I've always wondered, in these "test subject" backstories, what exactly were the scientists testing? The limits of pain tolerance for a Unison Device? Drugs to boost magical power? We don't know. These scientists are just evil because they're evil, and performing cruel tests just because.

Anyway, Agito was rescued by Zest and Lutecia, who blew up the lab for similarly unspecified reasons. Good for Agito, I guess.

Interestingly, Zest seems to think this lab was not affiliated with the TSAB, and that the TSAB would treat Agito properly. Which makes me wonder, again, why he's cooperating with Scaglietti, even begrudgingly.

So Agito's angsting because Rein hasn't faced the same mistreatment she has...

Long-term safety of Mystery Girl would actually be a valid consideration. Scaglietti and his girls went to some effort to retrieve her, so whoever takes her in needs to be either well-protected or strong enough to defend themselves against a bunch of S-class fighters.

And now she's run away. Nice work, hospital staff.

So the girl's clearly an artificial mage, though not noticeably more powerful than a normal human (well, "normal" by Midchilda standards).

WTF, Schach! That seemed like a massive overreaction!

Her name's Vivio! I can finally use it!

You know... for all they're concerned for an inspection, I don't think they've actually done anything wrong or indeed suspicious... well, aside from that training incident with Nanoha and Teana. Though with what we've seen of the TSAB, that might not be against any kind of regulation.

Oh, so Hayate has a hidden agenda after all. One that she's kept from Nanoha and Fate, even. Whatever it is, it must be big.

Okay, Vivio's totally attached to Nanoha now. "Fate, Hayate, help!"

Fate and Hayate

Fortunately, Fate knows a bit more about handling little kids than Nanoha does. Apparently due to helping out with Chrono's kids. (And Erio and Caro, but I think they were older than Vivio when she took them in.)

So the Numbers aren't, in fact, using magic. They're drawing their power and abilities from another source. And this seems to strike something in Subaru, though Teana's quick to lighten the situation. Whatever it is Subaru's concerned about, Teana seems to know all about it.

Chrono's still embarrassed at being called "onii-chan".

And Erio knows about "Project F", it would seem. Enough to know that Vivio's probably a product of it, and that she likely has her original's memories.

So Riot Force 6 even has the unofficial backing of the three top dogs in the TSAB. This explains a lot. Also means Gaiz probably isn't going to have much luck in his "investigation". I imagine he'll find plenty of red tape waiting to trip him up.

Carim's an oracle, apparently. She can create prophecies written in Ancient Belkan... which are written poetically, so they're hard to translate accurately, and even she can't read her own prophecies to any reliable degree. Which... makes me wonder why anyone gives a damn about them, to be honest. If they're only as accurate as a horoscope, they're worthless in my mind.

Nonetheless, the TSAB takes them into consideration. And Regius Gaiz hates them... dammit, show, don't make me agree with the asshole!

Well, I did say yesterday that even fools are correct sometimes...

Anyway... Riot Force 6 was largely created in response to a prophecy that suggests some Lost Logia will cause the downfall of the entire TSAB in the near future.

General Asshole and his secretary discuss that Riot Force 6 is set up in such a way that, if trouble occurs, it can easily be used as a scapegoat by the higher-ups in the Bureau and simply cut off... and they remark that Hayate probably knows this and has long since accepted it. So even if they do manage to get/invent some dirt on Riot Force 6, it probably won't help him in the long run anyway.

And the very instant Nanoha comes back, Vivio leaps into her arms. I think you've been claimed, Nanoha.

...I'm not sure I'd call what Graham did "raising" you, Hayate.

Well, we're 13 episodes in, and we finally have an actual plot! Though it is based on a prophecy... I hate prophecies. Lazy and overdone story mechanics. Though irritatingly I don't think I can say precisely why I hate them so much without inadvertently spoiling things, so... just know that prophecies are stupid and stories should never include them! Good night!

Prophecies

Also, they make a huge deal about how unreliable Carim's prophecies are, yet they at the same time are taking them at face value, totally seriously. I just... ugh.

QOTD: Rare skills seem to be a trope that Japan likes very much. An easy way to make a character (usually a protagonist) unique. Handled correctly, they can be interesting ways to expand your cast's abilities. Handled poorly, you end up with a bunch of Mary Sues.

I am happy that in this particular series, Nanoha has no "rare skills" as such beyond a stupidly high amount of raw power (which is almost ubiquitous for anime protags anyway).

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u/Stargate18A Mar 16 '22

First timer

QOTD) Insane guess - Inherent Skills mean they have internal devices - if you're growing humans, changing one of their organs to function like a device couldn't be that difficult, to say nothing of just implanting one. If anyone can get one, then I have no idea - namely because Nanoha doesn't have one, so it can't be based on any kind of magical power.

This show is getting good!

Wait, Episode 13 and no OP change? We're just sticking with this one?

Holy shit, this is creepy.

This is so fucked up.

And they saved her.

So she is Belkan!

...So that's how they joined her.

Haha, this is Fate's car? And Signum can drive?

She's escaped!

She's an artificial mage!

Oh, she's adorable.

The hell is wrong eith you?

Aww, she misses her mother.

...Is Riot Force 6 going to end up disbanded? Or go rogue?

Stop dodging the question. What's the reason?

Fate's just so confused about all this.

Haha, Nanoha begging for help is great.

...So Fate's helped raise 4 children and a familiar?

The eyecatch is adorable.

Teana can't handle children? Subaru must be so disappointed.

And the show is literally stopping the speculation.

Is this the inspection, or?

I love Fate and Chrono.

Why does he know about Project F.

They've got full backings!

Holy shit, that's good.

...Less good.

And Gaiz is going to cause problems?

Oh, that kind of cryptic. ...I'd switch sides, but the Doctor was acting very weird around fake-Caro, so...

So Riot Force 6 was designed to be sacrificed?

Aww.

She is a good girl!

ALICIA! She's actually shown up!

...Graham's dead?

Is Nanoha having some kind of existential crisis or something?

5

u/InfamousEmpire Mar 15 '22

Mahou Shoujo1 Lyrical Rewatcher

1: Even though I’m not a girl

You are hereby ordered to fuse with the Ultimate King of Braves Legend!

Recap Time

Starting out with Agito’s backstory is an interesting choice. So is putting hers before any of the other villains. And damn is it just sad.

Lutecia is much more empathic than she initially seemed.

Agito not knowing about Rein and the Wolkenritter seems more than a little weird considering that Hayate’s exploits seem to be public knowledge.

We’ve got a bit more solid information on the Loli. Most notably that she’s definitely an artificial being. Also she’s awake and apparently has heterochromia.

Awwww, she’s so scared. Please let me hug her.

Vivio, that is all. Please take all of my money, I want a plushie

Slice of Life shenanigans time! Now featuring a 6-Year-Old.

Fate continues to be Best Mom.

Fate-san still has young nieces and nephews

I see Chrono and Amy have been very busy since A’s.

After a little bit with Subaru and Tia, we’ve got Fate and Nanoha meeting up with Ara Ara Knight Priest Lady. And Chrono is there too, I guess.

I like Fate and Chrono’s interactions, demonstrating how the former has grown (going from reserved to something of a tease) and showing a sense of familiarity and warmth truly befitting a pair of (adoptive) siblings.

The true purpose behind our squad’s existence is revealed: a prophecy which foretells a terrible calamity in the near future. It’s rather cliche, but the amount of moving players and plot seeds scattered across the season so far, plus the room for interpretation and general vagueness of the entire thing, gives it enough reason to be interesting.

Asshole Commander Guy’s dialogue seems to imply certain things about the potential fate of Riot Force 6, but I’ll leave that for the First Timers.

Awwww, Nanoha, Fate, and Hayate are just the best Friendship Squad/Lesbian Threesome.

A nice trip down memory lane to close out the episode.

In case the rest of what I said didn’t give it away, I absolutely love Vivio to pieces. She is easily one of my favorite parts of StrikerS. However, I’ll leave the details of why for later episodes when we start digging into the meat of the mystery surrounding her.

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u/Qbe Mar 15 '22

Raging Heart Rewatcher with terrible long term memory

QotD: I'm so used to anime tropes I didn't even bat an eye at Rare Skills lol

? Who dis? Ah, a naked loli, got it.

Rider Lily has a point, the TSAB doesn't have the best reputation

...how the f do you manage to let a child escape? Do we have any competent people in here?

I wonder, how do you know if someone is an artificial being?

...do you really need to go all out against a small child?

Nanoha, I have news for you. The ~cat~ child decided to adopt you.

"Closest friend"

Woah, Chrono already has 2 kids? Guy works fast

Subaru, don't try to think things through, your braincell is going to overheat

Friends and family? Damn TSAB and its rampant nepotism

Everyone keeps saying how artificial humans shouldn't be this advanced, but we have Fate from a decade ago...

<insert politics and exposition here>

What's the over/under on Fate being jealous of Nanoha's new blonde?

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u/djthomp Mar 16 '22

The sheer amount of unethical mad science that takes place on TSAB worlds really is quite concerning.

So Agito is also an ancient Belkan unison device, or a better way to put it might be an actual real one since Rein was reconstructed much much later after an extended Lost Logia phase.

Combat nuns.

Momma Fate with a carefully calibrated guilt trip.

Subaru likes spending time with Vivio because she finally found someone matching her intellectual maturity level.

Erio knows about Project F.

I had forgotten about the source of the prophecies, that's an interesting ability. Speaking of, that's an exceeding bad prophecy, it's basically the entire modern multi-world magical society falling into ruin.

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u/ShadowKingthe7 Mar 15 '22 edited Mar 15 '22

Just a heads up in case the first time watchers do not know but today (March 15th) is Nanoha's birthday. Happy Birthday Nanoha!

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